Why perfect stealth is overpowered.

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Anyone who can utilize perfect stealth is overpowered on principle. This is true in any game. If a class, ship or whatever exists that can make itself invisible they will always have the most favourable win/loss ratio in the game when they are played right:

1. Picking your fights.
Being able to decide who to attack and who to avoid a confrontation basicly allows you to only fight when you already know you will win.
Let's say were're talking about a generic MMO where the class thief can turn invisible. If the thief encounters a lonely wizard he can kill him no problem, if the thief encounters two knights he can simply stay hidden and not be killed.
This basicly means that even if he is completely alone someone with perfect stealth can play in a way that retains a positive if not perfect win/loss ratio.

2. Always on the offensive.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive. You decide when and where to fight, your enemy can never go out to attack you, he can only wait till you attack him. The only way you are ever forced into a defensive position is if you need to defend a static objective that you can't hide along with yourself.
In our generic MMO it plays out like this: A knight wants to kill the thief, but he can't do anything to find him. He can't go on the offensive, so the only way he has to acctually defeat the thief is to somehow get attacked by him first.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive, you are never in a defensive position where the other person initiates the attack.

3. Impossible to strategize against.
Let's say you do have a situation where there are static objectives on the map, and you are forced to fight to keep them intact or take down those of your enemy. You are still at a huge advantage having perfect stealth, because your opponent doesn't know where to send their forces to effectively counter your attack, all he can do is either guess where you will be or spread his forces so thin that they can't effectively attack or defend anything. Given an equal number of units attacking and defending on each side this gives the side with stealth an overwhelming advantage.
In terms of a generic MMO, if 5 knights fight 5 thieves and each side has 3 towers to defend then the knights have absolutely no way of defending theirs They don't know which one will be attacked, they don't know which ones th enemy is defending. They don't know if the enemy is traveling in a large force or in small teams. Also the thieves can respond to an attack, because they see it coming before it happens, the knights can only respond when its already too late.
If you have stealth then you deprive your opponent of any chance to use strategy against you, the only thing they can do is go in full force and hope they can accomplish their objectives faster than the stealthers.

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Fortunately there is no perfect stealth in this game.

You do however have to -try- to detect. If you didn't have to try, then it wouldn't be useful when someone did.

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Yea, right, the ability to detect an enemy ship within 2-3km of you is soooooo useful if the enemy can turn and run 20km from you if they don't want to fight you and uncloak and shoot 10km from you if they do want to fight.

Detection is an absolute non-factor in STO.

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Anyone who can utilize perfect stealth is overpowered on principle. This is true in any game. If a class, ship or whatever exists that can make itself invisible they will always have the most favourable win/loss ratio in the game when they are played right:

1. Picking your fights.
Being able to decide who to attack and who to avoid a confrontation basicly allows you to only fight when you already know you will win.
Let's say were're talking about a generic MMO where the class thief can turn invisible. If the thief encounters a lonely wizard he can kill him no problem, if the thief encounters two knights he can simply stay hidden and not be killed.
This basicly means that even if he is completely alone someone with perfect stealth can play in a way that retains a positive if not perfect win/loss ratio.

2. Always on the offensive.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive. You decide when and where to fight, your enemy can never go out to attack you, he can only wait till you attack him. The only way you are ever forced into a defensive position is if you need to defend a static objective that you can't hide along with yourself.
In our generic MMO it plays out like this: A knight wants to kill the thief, but he can't do anything to find him. He can't go on the offensive, so the only way he has to acctually defeat the thief is to somehow get attacked by him first.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive, you are never in a defensive position where the other person initiates the attack.

3. Impossible to strategize against.
Let's say you do have a situation where there are static objectives on the map, and you are forced to fight to keep them intact or take down those of your enemy. You are still at a huge advantage having perfect stealth, because your opponent doesn't know where to send their forces to effectively counter your attack, all he can do is either guess where you will be or spread his forces so thin that they can't effectively attack or defend anything. Given an equal number of units attacking and defending on each side this gives the side with stealth an overwhelming advantage.
In terms of a generic MMO, if 5 knights fight 5 thieves and each side has 3 towers to defend then the knights have absolutely no way of defending theirs They don't know which one will be attacked, they don't know which ones th enemy is defending. They don't know if the enemy is traveling in a large force or in small teams. Also the thieves can respond to an attack, because they see it coming before it happens, the knights can only respond when its already too late.
If you have stealth then you deprive your opponent of any chance to use strategy against you, the only thing they can do is go in full force and hope they can accomplish their objectives faster than the stealthers.


Its not perfect.

and you thought klingons in this game would be able toooooo what? Exactly what did you expect them to do?

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Anyone who can utilize perfect stealth is overpowered on principle. This is true in any game. If a class, ship or whatever exists that can make itself invisible they will always have the most favourable win/loss ratio in the game when they are played right:

1. Picking your fights.

2. Always on the offensive.

3. Impossible to strategize against.
Let's say you do have a situation where there are static objectives on the map, and you are forced to fight to keep them intact or take down those of your enemy. .


#1 and #2: Yes, exactly as intended. Klinks are offensive based, they have limited defenses (less access to gear, weaker ships, less BO slots). Feds are defensively oriented, with a plethora of options due to the availability of a triad of specialized ships, luxurious options for gear, and sturdy ships.

Klinks give up a lot for the cloak. And the cloak is only valuable in the setup to the attack. If they don't make it pay, they all die horribly because cloaks are worthless once you're in combat. Sure the BoP has a battlecloak, but even that is easily mitigated by a smart Fed team...and the Klink BoP pilots give up a lot for that battlecloak.


#3) So your point is that Feds should lose all the Cap&hold maps because of stealth? Strange, because 9 times out of 10 I see Feds absolutely STOMPING THE CRAP out of the Klinks in cap&hold.

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Ive played an entire round in the Cracked Planet PVP T2 without using my cloak, it was not pretty. Try playing Klingon without cloak and see yourself what happens. I had our team do the "KlinkBall" (just like the FedBall) without the cloak boy was that a major fail. T1 is a different story, Klingons are too strong, probably due to equipment.

I have an idea about cloak if we can get the developers to make a cloak energy bar that will slowly deplete when cloak is engaged (60 sec of cloak, dependant on ship type), and a 2x charge on that energy bar when not cloaked. They could also make different cloak drops or cloak bonuses it would only add to the game.

Just an idea.

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We just had a group of kdf last night play 10 matches of t1 pvp without ever using cloak, and they claimed that they won 10-0 and lost a single ship in the entire 10 matches. A SINGLE SHIP.

Where does that leave your argument now? The deciding factor isn't stealth.

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Ive played an entire round in the Cracked Planet PVP without using my cloak, it was not pretty. Try playing Klingon without cloak and see yourself what happens. I had our team do the "KlinkBall" (just like the FedBall) without the cloak boy was that a major fail.

I have an idea about cloak if we can get the developers to make a cloak energy bar that will slowly deplete when cloak is engaged (60 sec of cloak, dependant on ship type), and a 2x charge on that energy bar when not cloaked. They could also make different cloak drops or cloak bonuses it would only add to the game.

Just an idea.

The reason why it's major fail is that you didn't fight as your ships were designed to fight. If you're a flight of BoPs that wouldn't cloak, then you gave up BO slots/BO ranks for nothing, and you had a fragile piece of glass with no hull. And you wonder why you lost?

Your "test" would be as valid as me saying the T4 cruisers are broken because I played a whole round after loading up cannons on it and I couldn't kill anyone because they wouldn't stay in my front 90 degrees. Yes, not being able to fly a T4 cruiser like an escort sure does show the cruiser is broken. So lets have a timer on my cruiser that would let it turn and maneuver like an escort, because that would be more fair.

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Ive played an entire round in the Cracked Planet PVP T2 without using my cloak, it was not pretty. Try playing Klingon without cloak and see yourself what happens. I had our team do the "KlinkBall" (just like the FedBall) without the cloak boy was that a major fail. T1 is a different story, Klingons are too strong, probably due to equipment.

I have an idea about cloak if we can get the developers to make a cloak energy bar that will slowly deplete when cloak is engaged (60 sec of cloak, dependant on ship type), and a 2x charge on that energy bar when not cloaked. They could also make different cloak drops or cloak bonuses it would only add to the game.

Just an idea.

I just played a bunch of T3 matches where I did not use cloak. In one match I sat alone 12km from 4 Feds in a ball and they refused to attack. Their reasoning? It was obviously an ambush. It wasnt, though a buddy of my was nearby to help out just in case. So the problem is not cloak, its just that the Feds are so conditioned to fear it that they would rather be alpha striked then go on the offensive against a single K't'inga.

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You're gonna love Romulan players then , especially when the big warbirds are battle cloaking all over the place. Good luck to you. ,Might as well quit now, before you lose all your nerve and dignity.

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

The only reason cloak will be nerfed is due to cry babies who don't want to play the easiest side without having a unique or challenging pvp opponent. Honestly.

Cloak is not OP. There are jerks that use it sure, but that's no reason to nerf a skill that affects the 90% of us who don't abuse it.

But Feds have numbers so their QQ is like a torrent of tears on these forums lately.

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

We see the nerf coming, we play Klins and trust me we are plenty nerfed now. Half of our stuff does not work and the other half is missing. Trust me, we will adapt and we will keep on killing you. The blind man here is you, you will still be here whining after multiple Klin nerfs.

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

Actually I'll assume we will be getting buffed. T2 cruiser ship, more/better loot to find in PvE, more PvE content, fixes for broken missions/mission rewards and fixing broken skills.

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

WooHoo! Level playing field! Are we getting our hull hps back?

But yes, it will be levelled a bit when we get a chance of getting some of those nice blues. Oh and if we ever got special BO's that werent Engies that'll help a bit more.
And the t2 cruiser? Well thats gonna make the forums run with feddybear tears :)

Oh yes a level playing field would be wonderful :D

Imagine what we could do with a Orion Sci ship? :)

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with science ships doing their jobs stealth is not fool proof. Cloak is not a win button. please list what you have tried, what classes, what lvl, what eq, and what grouping/pug your with. Then maybe you can complain. Until then your just another QQ'er who wants you to sit idle there in space as they spam their space bar and scream KAHNNNNNNN...............................

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WooHoo! Level playing field! Are we getting our hull hps back?


Yea, if you really think a few more HP is a good balance to being able to turn permanently invisible you are just wayy off.

If Klingon ships had tripple their hull and no cloak it would be more balanced than it is now.

with science ships doing their jobs stealth is not fool proof.

Oh yes, someone else who has no idea what they are talking about.

You do realize that cloak detection has a 2-3km range right? You do realize that Klingons can see a science ship coming 25km away right? You do realize that if the Klingons decide to attack that science ship they can do so at 10km right?

How on earth would a science ship ever decloak a klingon who's not completely off his game? There is no reason for a Klingon ship to ever be within 2km of a science vessel, and a science vessel neither knows where the cloaked klingons are nor does it have the speed to catch them to put them within 2km of itself.

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lol more

You have such a surprise coming to you when you find out theres more BO abilities in this game than the ones you start with.
You can either go work out how to play,
Start a thread asking for help with abilities and tactics to get around cloak,
QQ some more,
Wait for FvF and get you arse handed to you every match by feds that know how to play,
Start a klingon so you can see how the good feds play.

Why do i get the feeling your going to be one of the ones that always pick QQ some more.

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Just a point of curiosity: What do Klingon consider reasonable detection range for scanning abillities(in Km)?
In other words, I hit my scan button, and you appear. What range do you consider reasonable?
This is coming from a Science officer with both sensor gear and a heavy skill point investment in sensor skills.
Just curious because of the "perfect stealth" discussion.
Yea, if you really think a few more HP is a good balance to being able to turn permanently invisible you are just wayy off.

If Klingon ships had tripple their hull and no cloak it would be more balanced than it is now.


Don't exaggerate so much. I too believe FvK pvp needs to be adjusted, but when you exaggerate like this, it just detracts from your points, and to a lesser extent from all of us that want a more balanced game.

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Whaa! I didn't pick the right side for myself!!! Roll a Klingon so you don't have to ***** about having cloak... You can just ***** about the missing vendors, pve, loot drops, lack of medium size vessels, blah blah blah!

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People who don't understand the difference between the desire for a balanced game that's fun for everyone and a desire to win all the time are exactly the kinds of people who should not weigh in on discussions of balance at all, because they have obviously already picked the winning side and don't want things to become any more even.

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on grid should be the maximum you can scan, and that should be a maxed out power. No klingon hovers within 10km usually, so an active power should be usable on a point in space and have a sphere that scales with skills, consoles etc.

In KvK with just 50% Aux i seem to see the other team find within 4k (of couse i dont know how many i'm not seeing) So a sci ship at full aux in t2 should have a very good chance passively to see them within 6km, t3 7km t4, 8km t5, 9km.

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And people that dont understand balance doesnt have to come from everyone having the same shouldnt be allowed either.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, I'll buy a bloody parrot if i have to. Just because you cant see the balance doesnt mean its not there.

There is a counter in this game to everything, and then theres a counter to that. FIND THEM. Want Balance Red Vs Blue? Theres 10,000 games out there that have it, dont try and make every game a clone just because you found it easier that way.

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Yea, but the reason you're able to uncloak the ship at all is because you're cloaked too so he doesn't know you're coming. If he could see you plain as day and you were flying around in a giant spacewhale of a ship do you think he'd let you get that close knowing he might be decloaked?

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And people that dont understand balance doesnt have to come from everyone having the same shouldnt be allowed either..

Making up random lies about someone you're arguing with does not make you any more credible. I'd like you to quote where I said that everyone has to be the same. Please.


Also don't try to pull a god argument out of your butt. "Just because you have made several valid arguments for why something is overpowered which I have not even attempted to refute doesn't mean it is overpowered" what? You're not even making any sense.

Take my examples, disect them, find the logical flaws in them and then get back to me. Don't just spout off your position without anything to support it.

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Waiting for a intelligent solution that is not a nerf...yawn

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I just want to know why cloaking was so easy for kirk to spot in the mmovies and series, but here in this game the feds can't easily spot them? I always thought cloaking was stupid because of watching star trek. Here in this game it is a pain in the as~~~.

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When something is too powerful the only solution is to make it less powerful.

You simply cannot have a good, fun game where offensive and defensive roles are not based on strategy or skill, but a default that is hammered home by making one faction completely unattackable unless they want to attack.

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Yea, but the reason you're able to uncloak the ship at all is because you're cloaked too so he doesn't know you're coming. If he could see you plain as day and you were flying around in a giant spacewhale of a ship do you think he'd let you get that close knowing he might be decloaked?

Yes because we fly around the whole map both teams cloaked hoping we pass each other and scan detection works?

Play KvK before you start telling us how we play as well please.

Bored of you now, Make the next QQ thread about something more interesting than cloak eh?

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Bored of you now, Make the next QQ thread about something more interesting than cloak eh?

Oh how convenient that you got "bored of me" just when I called you out on not being able to construct a logical argument. Guess you can't play with the big kids.

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When something is too powerful the only solution is to make it less powerful.

You simply cannot have a good, fun game where offensive and defensive roles are not based on strategy or skill, but a default that is hammered home by making one faction completely unattackable unless they want to attack.


This is no excuse. I have just read a post that would solve this problem without nerfing anyone. No fed response.

Nerfs are just an easy mans road to a solution, and they never work in the end except for truly OP powers which cloak is clearly not. Get creative. Anyone can complain, it takes intelligence and creativity to offer positive solutions that everyone can live with.

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Wether you call it a nerf to cloaks or a buff to detection makes no difference. I chose to call it a nerf because it's easier to identify the part of the equation that is disproportionally powerful than the parts of the equation that are disproportionately weak.

What it boils down to is, any situation that restores a balance of power is going to leave cloaking in a weakened state afterward, wether it is because its particular mechanics were made weaker or because mechanics that counter it were made stronger.

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This is no excuse. I have just read a post that would solve this problem without nerfing anyone. No fed response.

Nerfs are just an easy mans road to a solution, and they never work in the end except for truly OP powers which cloak is clearly not. Get creative. Anyone can complain, it takes intelligence and creativity to offer positive solutions that everyone can live with.

People always go for the intellectually lazy and often most simplistic, yet worst way, to go about fixing issues like this. I tried to think of a solution for everyone, not just a solution for me so I the other guy gets screwed. I think people who cry for nerfs, but don't listen to good ideas, just want to see other people get the bad side of a nerf.

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See, you don't get the difference between someone wanting to see everyone else nerfed and someone wanting a balanced game.

I fly a science ship, I was horrendously overpowered in Open beta because I could tank like nobodies business and because I could launch multiple tachyon beams at the same time, allowing me to drain peoples shields by over 1000 points a second in T2.

I complained about it, I wrote a large exposee on how the tachyon beam exploit made my ship unstoppable, it got nerfed/fixed. Did I suffer a significant loss of power as a result? Yes, of course, but it was nescesary because nobody could possibly defeat me before.

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See, you don't get the difference between someone wanting to see everyone else nerfed and someone wanting a balanced game.

I fly a science ship, I was horrendously overpowered in Open beta because I could tank like nobodies business and because I could launch multiple tachyon beams at the same time, allowing me to drain peoples shields by over 1000 points a second in T2.

I complained about it, I wrote a large exposee on how the tachyon beam exploit made my ship unstoppable, it got nerfed/fixed. Did I suffer a significant loss of power as a result? Yes, of course, but it was nescesary because nobody could possibly defeat me before.

I have a proposal that could potentially fix that problem without nerfs, but actually would benefit both sides.

However, no one pays attention to something that's not ****ing someone off.

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Wether you call it a nerf to cloaks or a buff to detection makes no difference. I chose to call it a nerf because it's easier to identify the part of the equation that is disproportionally powerful than the parts of the equation that are disproportionately weak.

What it boils down to is, any situation that restores a balance of power is going to leave cloaking in a weakened state afterward, wether it is because its particular mechanics were made weaker or because mechanics that counter it were made stronger.

But it is not. And most of the people Feds and Klink’s, especially in T3 and up, know this. Cloak allows us to attack first, but it doesn’t guarantee WINNING. You get this right? Just because you don’t like being defensive doesn’t mean it’s imbalanced, it just means it’s asymmetrical. This has been brought up before. If you want symmetrical warfare don’t play star trek, this is keeping with the IP, this is not Rothnang Online.

That being said I understand how you feel. Spagettimonster has suggested a non-cloaked ship that I think is a good idea that will change the dynamics and allow feds a little bit more "aggression". I don’t hear any of you qq guys discussing it. You just all want a nerf because it all about you, instead of it being about the game as a whole.

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Cloak doesn't guarantee a win, but that doesn't mean it's not overpowered.


For one, consider un-even fights:

If 1 Federation ship runs into 5 Klingon ships what happens? It doesn't see them coming, it dies.

If 1 Klingon ship runs into 5 Federation ships what happenes? It sees them coming, it turns aroun, it leaves.


If you're not prone to losing by pure bad luck, (you got seperated from your fleet, you have to make your way back and the enemy found you first) you have a massive advantage.


Then consider even fights:

If you're in a ship that can run and hide from its enemy if its losing the battle your possible outcomes to a fight become "Win or Draw"

If you're in a ship that can't run from the enemy and can't hide from him, but the enemy ship can run and hide from you if you're gaining the upper hand your possible outcomes to a fight become: "Lose or Draw"


It doesn't matter if the slow big ship has a very high chance of focring a draw, if it can't force a win without its enemy making a mistake over a large number of battles it will still be the overall loser.




You simply cannot say that these factors paint a picture of a balanced game.

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rot let me clue you in a bit on decloaking kligonons 101

first of fly a sci ship

2 put full power to auxilary

3 put sp into sensors

combine this with ablitys like sensor scan and items like auxialry barty and omg you can decloak kligons out to around 9k

i play both fed and kligon i have seen both sides kligons need there cloak to be able to regroup after hitting and running and a propely set up fed team idealy 3 cruiser and 2 sci vessles is nearly unkillable for kligons if the feds work togther but that takes you know EFFORT somthing you seem to be unwilling to do

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Cloak doesn't guarantee a win, but that doesn't mean it's not overpowered.

Team game. It’s a team game, not a solo game. Teams that work together will almost always win no matter what side. The balance must be maintained for TEAM play not individual players, everyone must work together to win.


If 1 Federation ship runs into 5 Klingon ships what happens? It doesn't see them coming, it dies.

Yes. Don't fly alone. In addition I think this was what MES was originally intended to do for feds, allow them to fly around without being spotted so they don’t get ganked. Instead it became an even better cloak than cloak. I am all for the power as way to hide from klinks so they can group up, or repair. What I am opposed to is it being used as an attack ability that works better than cloak.



If 1 Klingon ship runs into 5 Federation ships what happenes? It sees them coming, it turns aroun, it leaves.


If we get caught, we die. Quickly. You overlook this. (In t3 it’s almost impossible to escape into cloak if you get caught by more than three ships, at least for me, and this is with max power to aux, evasive, brace for impact, ect..)


If you're in a ship that can run and hide from its enemy if its losing the battle your possible outcomes to a fight become "Win or Draw"

Not really. Think about it in a war time situation (RvR would show this if we had it). Feds are really good a defending points. You have an amazing advantage against enemies that try to attack you when you are in your ball, as long as you’re organized and know how to prioritize targets. Breaking your ball is not easy for us, it’s a battle, and this is how it should be. We are the aggressors you are the defenders, its tit for tat, it can go either way. You just don’t like the role of the Federation in this game, but it is keeping with the IP. And this is Star Trek Online.


You simply cannot say that these factors paint a picture of a balanced game.

It’s balanced for the most part, it’s just not symmetrical. I don’t think any true star trek fan would want it any other way. It is balanced in terms of team play, and that’s all that really matters here.

That being said I think the idea of t2 cruiser without cloak would change things up enough to make it more to your liking. Also they need to make better maps, and have more objective based play, and have better queuing system that balances the teams better.

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If we get caught, we die. Quickly. You overlook this. (In t3 it’s almost impossible to escape into cloak if you get caught by more than three ships, at least for me, and this is with max power to aux, evasive, brace for impact, ect..).

not true any ship in the game can escape at any time with the following

polerize hull
evasive manuvers
emergancy power to engines

works in most situations and is good to knock you 20-40km depending on how much sp you invest in engines and your lvl

but it takes 2 of your bo skill slots thus the downside

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Don't fly alone? If we get cought we die? Federation has an Advantage when it comes to defending objectives? The role of the federation is keeping with the IP?

None of that makes any sense or proves that it's balanced.

Klingons can fly alone without ANY chance of being discovered. It comes standard on their ships. Even if MES was still the way it was, why should federation have to give up a science slot just to be on an even footing with a faction that's categorically imune to ganking?

Getting cought as a Klingon is pretty much impossible. You can see your enemies coming from 25km away. Their ships are slower than yours. They can't see you. Sure you'd die if they would catch you, but how would they ever catch you? A Science ship has to come within maybe 3km to uncloak you.

Federation also has no advantage on the defense, because there are no scenarios where you just have to defend one single thing. Where is this mythical advantage when you don't even know where you're being attacked untill its already being taken? If you attack Klingon static objectives they can simply move their fleet to whereever you are. If they attack yours you have to stretch your forces thin because you don't know where they will strike, and if they see everyone at the same target they just hit another one.

Making an argument that being constantly on the defensive and simply sitting around waiting to be attacked is in line with StarTrek IP is just ridiculous. Where in StarTrek do you see the federation as just being a punching bag? For that matter, there are at least a dozen episodes where they use some kind of trick to find or decloak an enemy ship that is cloaked. None of that works in STO.

Remember in Nemesis when Diana Troy targets the Scimitar by zeroing in on the minds of its crew? She wasn't even a powerful telepath, but merely an empath. My captain is a full Betazoid, does that mean he should be able to see cloaked ships, because that's justified by the IP?


It is completely unbalanced.

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not true any ship in the game can escape at any time with the following

polerize hull
evasive manuvers
emergancy power to engines

works in most situations and is good to knock you 20-40km depending on how much sp you invest in engines and your lvl

but it takes 2 of your bo skill slots thus the downside

Perhaps, all I am saying is that for the most part we are weak glass cannons, that has a limited escape ability (unless you spec for it taking away from your other abilities). Escorts can spec survival if they want as well, but they don't most of the time.

Even if you get away I have had sci ships jump after me and pull me out of cloak and kill me. Happened to me twice, so its not like its a 100% get away free card.

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None of that makes any sense or proves that it's balanced.

Argument ad assertion.


Klingons can fly alone without ANY chance of being discovered. It comes standard on their ships. Even if MES was still the way it was, why should federation have to give up a science slot just to be on an even footing with a faction that's categorically imune to ganking?

IT’S A CLOAK. Get it?? I guess not...


Getting cought as a Klingon is pretty much impossible. You can see your enemies coming from 25km away. Their ships are slower than yours. They can't see you. Sure you'd die if they would catch you, but how would they ever catch you? A Science ship has to come within maybe 3km to uncloak you.

If they are not attacking you (the only thing that really matters here) how does this even matter?? You are irrational.


Federation also has no advantage on the defense, because there are no scenarios where you just have to defend one single thing.

Salvage map seems pretty easy for feds to me. They win 90% of the 10v10 that I play. This is a game design problem with not enough real content, not a balance issue.


Where is this mythical advantage when you don't even know where you're being attacked untill its already being taken?

It’s called phasers with a virtual 360 arc of fire that automatically fire before your OP cloaked vessel even starts firing...how is this a disadvantage?



If you attack Klingon static objectives they can simply move their fleet to whereever you are.

You know we can't see you if your far away right? The maps need to be bigger this is a given.


Making an argument that being constantly on the defensive and simply sitting around waiting to be attacked is in line with StarTrek IP is just ridiculous. Where in StarTrek do you see the federation as just being a punching bag? For that matter, there are at least a dozen episodes where they use some kind of trick to find or decloak an enemy ship that is cloaked. None of that works in STO.

You have the same ability to find a cloaked vessel. It’s been done before, it’s being done right now.


Remember in Nemesis when Diana Troy targets the Scimitar by zeroing in on the minds of its crew? She wasn't even a powerful telepath, but merely an empath. My captain is a full Betazoid, does that mean he should be able to see cloaked ships, because that's justified by the IP?

Um ok...(so I guess Romulans and Klingons will all stop using cloak since it is so easily nullified?)


It is completely unbalanced.

My dissembled BoP in T3 disagrees with you.

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Argument ad assertion.



IT’S A CLOAK. Get it?? I guess not...



If they are not attacking you (the only thing that really matters here) how does this even matter?? You are irrational.



Salvage map seems pretty easy for feds to me. They win 90% of the 10v10 that I play. This is a game design problem with not enough real content, not a balance issue.



It’s called phasers with a virtual 360 arc of fire that automatically fire before your OP cloaked vessel even starts firing...how is this a disadvantage?




You know we can't see you if your far away right? The maps need to be bigger this is a given.



You have the same ability to find a cloaked vessel. It’s been done before, it’s being done right now.



Um ok...(so I guess Romulans and Klingons will all stop using cloak since it is so easily nullified?)



My dissembled BoP in T3 disagrees with you.

BoP gets worse in T4 too, but I hear it's good in T5 or something.

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Good thing it is not a perfect stealth. Case closed. If you argue that it is you've clearly got a lot to learn about the game and the skills available to you, I suggest you spend sometime at your local skill trainer reading up on them and refreshing what powers, and gear augment them.

You see the STO system is deceptively complex. It seems simple enough, but it is not. First it is a system based on asymmetrical parity, there is balance, but not quid pro quo. Then there is a great deal of synergy within the skills, gear and abilities.

One side is more similar to your traditional MMO structure (Feds) where a ship that follows role are at least aguments its primary role with complementary skills is ideal. On the other side the Klingons are slightly more flexible specifically the BoP, but it gives up hull points (usually 5% less than the Fed Escort has) and shields plus it always runs with one less skill than ships in its tier. At first blush the BoP appears to be vastly outmatched and when captained by an inexperienced player it is vastly out matched. It funnels people towards a high DPS role (which it can be utilized for), but this often gets people killed because they don't take into account the limited firing arc that comes with that role.

STO is a thinking mans game, period. Are there balance issue? Sort of, currently the cries for nerf belie the real issues, but until broken skills are fixed and more people spend more time in the chair the real balancing cannot be done. Anything done within these first two weeks would be moronic knee jerk reactions, other than the fact that the poor Fed Escort has been nerfed to death at the sacrifice of their other ships.

I played about 6 tier 2 PvP matches last night all Deathmatches, all in pugs. I think we lost 3 and won 3. The ones we losts were a mixture of things. First and foremost, the group we fought against was a good mix of ships. I can tell you if we see all Escorts its a sure victory (sorry Escort Captains, I'm rooting for you). If we see all Cruisers it's anyone match, though if we are a mix of Raptors and BoP's the balance goes to the Cruisers. Secondly, the other thing that was constant when we lost was that the other side had a clear understanding of the BO skills. They understood if I hit RSP they'd switch targets. If I hit them with Jam sensors they'd switch targets and not just sit there dead in space. The teams we beat, they had zero reaction to skills, they clearly didn't know what I fired off at them.

Like I said, it is a thinking mans game, cloak is a part of that. When you build a BO team for a BoP you have to think about what you have given up for cloak and what you can augment those weaknesses with to help make sure you survive.

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what gets me the most about this guys unwillingness to actulay try is that onve kligons get to t3 and get cruisers cloaking becomes alot less important

on my kligon in t3 or4 cruiser ill cloak at the begninning while both sides forum up but after that theres generaly no need to cloak expect for regrouping after a hit and run if the fed team is decent

that and he seems unable to fathom that sci vessels that know what there doing can reliably get out to 9km detection and on occasion ive seen some find cloaked ships at 14-15 km

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Yea, if you really think a few more HP is a good balance to being able to turn permanently invisible you are just wayy off.

If Klingon ships had tripple their hull and no cloak it would be more balanced than it is now.



Oh yes, someone else who has no idea what they are talking about.

You do realize that cloak detection has a 2-3km range right? You do realize that Klingons can see a science ship coming 25km away right? You do realize that if the Klingons decide to attack that science ship they can do so at 10km right?

How on earth would a science ship ever decloak a klingon who's not completely off his game? There is no reason for a Klingon ship to ever be within 2km of a science vessel, and a science vessel neither knows where the cloaked klingons are nor does it have the speed to catch them to put them within 2km of itself.

You are so wrong its not even funny. Your ignorance is very amusing.

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The only relevant issue in this thread is the actual detection radius. I think a ceiling of 10km on the radius is fine as long as they have the right deflector and or skills tweaked. It would make things more interesting on my klingon but wouldn't make cloak a liability.

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Yea, right, the ability to detect an enemy ship within 2-3km of you is soooooo useful if the enemy can turn and run 20km from you if they don't want to fight you and uncloak and shoot 10km from you if they do want to fight.

Detection is an absolute non-factor in STO.

um a good sci guy can detect us at 10km range

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I have been De-Cloaked multiple times at 8+ Km, but i guess that doesn't count as cloak detection.....

I like the statement of why should the feds have to give up a single BO skill slot for MES, but Klinks already give up multiple BO skills for cloak, just to clarify it for you Rath we have one less BO on the BoP so that is multiple BO skills we dont get for having cloak.

guess what else we get witht our OP cloak...... we get the provilage of less hull and much much less shields and the oh so happy fun time of give feds free shots at your hull while cloaking, oh and you cant forget the delay we get to deal with when uncloaking before we can fire.

Feds always get the first shot and they always get to focus fire the first Klink to uncloak.

we get to chose when you get the first shot.

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I have been De-Cloaked multiple times at 8+ Km, but i guess that doesn't count as cloak detection.....

I like the statement of why should the feds have to give up a single BO skill slot for MES, but Klinks already give up multiple BO skills for cloak, just to clarify it for you Rath we have one less BO on the BoP so that is multiple BO skills we dont get for having cloak.

guess what else we get witht our OP cloak...... we get the provilage of less hull and much much less shields and the oh so happy fun time of give feds free shots at your hull while cloaking, oh and you cant forget the delay we get to deal with when uncloaking before we can fire.

Feds always get the first shot and they always get to focus fire the first Klink to uncloak.

we get to chose when you get the first shot.

Which is clearly broken due to auto fire issues that need to be turned off for the game..too easy to afk farm and otherwise autopilot through all..

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To be honest I don't see anything wrong with Klingon cloaking.

And there are already plenty of ways to detect it. Check the science Bridge Officer powers, in addition to your science vessel and AUX.

If/when a playable Romulan faction gets added to the game, then I will probably favour a slight tweaking to favour Romulan stealth over Klingon stealth.

(FYI not all Feds think the system is too hard or broken. :) Still looking for properly populated arenas though.)

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The only one who will quit is all you noob Smugons who don't see the nerf coming till one day they will have to compete on a level playing field and see just how fail they are.

if the playign field was lvl then the klingosn win % would go up as it is we still manage to win close to 50% of the time even with our disadvantages.

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on grid should be the maximum you can scan, and that should be a maxed out power. No klingon hovers within 10km usually, so an active power should be usable on a point in space and have a sphere that scales with skills, consoles etc.

In KvK with just 50% Aux i seem to see the other team find within 4k (of couse i dont know how many i'm not seeing) So a sci ship at full aux in t2 should have a very good chance passively to see them within 6km, t3 7km t4, 8km t5, 9km.

a Sci ship with the right skills and power into aux can actually see a cloaked ship at 10k when he scans now

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I just want to know why cloaking was so easy for kirk to spot in the mmovies and series, but here in this game the feds can't easily spot them? I always thought cloaking was stupid because of watching star trek. Here in this game it is a pain in the as~~~.

actually it was not easy for kirk to spot. If you recall only one they new a ship was out there could the actually look for an anomolly so small they woudl miss it otherwise. Even then they had a very very small chance when firing torps in a spread to detonate over a wide area to hit the cloaked ship and unless the managed to damage soemthign effectign their ability to cloak the ship remained cloaked.

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When something is too powerful the only solution is to make it less powerful.

You simply cannot have a good, fun game where offensive and defensive roles are not based on strategy or skill, but a default that is hammered home by making one faction completely unattackable unless they want to attack.

except they are based on stratedy and skill here you just refuse to see that. As i have said alogn with others. Ask aroudn on the FED side about what you are doing wrong and how you should be playing. You would be surprised at how many good pvpers are willing to talk and teach someone who really wants to learn as oppossed to one who just complains alot.. It is the same on our side I know our house got ride fo people who were alwasy screaming and whinning about how OP the FEDs were and are as oppossed to those who went out and tried different skills and tactics to find ones that worked.

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I'm so looking forward to klink vs fed vs romulan scenarios :)




As far as this thread is concerned: i have seen the pendulum swing in either direction totally based on the actual level of players.


a Commander 9 will have moar stuff than a commander 1.


Its a basic truth:

My super quest shield and weapons will blow your stock crap outa the water. So do my more advanced skills.





THAT is where we need to start balancing.
A commander 1 vs a commander 9, the com 9 will most likely win. Its not the rule but still a valid reason why you often see such discrepancys.

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Cloak is fine as it is..beside on T4+ you will see only enginner piloted battlecruisers in klingon premades, extending shields on each other.

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typical complaint of the tactical officer. Try a Sci career, boost your AUX power, and BAM, you decloak everything within a 10-11km radius.... next time when you group with a sci officer, let him know AUX power is important.....

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typical complaint of the tactical officer. Try a Sci career, boost your AUX power, and BAM, you decloak everything within a 10-11km radius.... next time when you group with a sci officer, let him know AUX power is important.....

*ruh roh rorge someone read the fing manual* :D

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Anyone who can utilize perfect stealth is overpowered on principle. This is true in any game. If a class, ship or whatever exists that can make itself invisible they will always have the most favourable win/loss ratio in the game when they are played right:

1. Picking your fights.
Being able to decide who to attack and who to avoid a confrontation basicly allows you to only fight when you already know you will win.
Let's say were're talking about a generic MMO where the class thief can turn invisible. If the thief encounters a lonely wizard he can kill him no problem, if the thief encounters two knights he can simply stay hidden and not be killed.
This basicly means that even if he is completely alone someone with perfect stealth can play in a way that retains a positive if not perfect win/loss ratio.

2. Always on the offensive.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive. You decide when and where to fight, your enemy can never go out to attack you, he can only wait till you attack him. The only way you are ever forced into a defensive position is if you need to defend a static objective that you can't hide along with yourself.
In our generic MMO it plays out like this: A knight wants to kill the thief, but he can't do anything to find him. He can't go on the offensive, so the only way he has to acctually defeat the thief is to somehow get attacked by him first.
If you have perfect stealth you are always on the offensive, you are never in a defensive position where the other person initiates the attack.

3. Impossible to strategize against.
Let's say you do have a situation where there are static objectives on the map, and you are forced to fight to keep them intact or take down those of your enemy. You are still at a huge advantage having perfect stealth, because your opponent doesn't know where to send their forces to effectively counter your attack, all he can do is either guess where you will be or spread his forces so thin that they can't effectively attack or defend anything. Given an equal number of units attacking and defending on each side this gives the side with stealth an overwhelming advantage.
In terms of a generic MMO, if 5 knights fight 5 thieves and each side has 3 towers to defend then the knights have absolutely no way of defending theirs They don't know which one will be attacked, they don't know which ones th enemy is defending. They don't know if the enemy is traveling in a large force or in small teams. Also the thieves can respond to an attack, because they see it coming before it happens, the knights can only respond when its already too late.
If you have stealth then you deprive your opponent of any chance to use strategy against you, the only thing they can do is go in full force and hope they can accomplish their objectives faster than the stealthers.

I spot cloaked klingons and im a klingon Tac officer with NO sp in any scanner skills, infact i dont even HAVE scanner skills, If you LOOK for klingons (pump up all power to aux and run scans and charged particles) you find and decloak klingons with ease, if you do this continuously we cant even drop within 10km of you without being discovered.

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The only relevant issue in this thread is the actual detection radius. I think a ceiling of 10km on the radius is fine as long as they have the right deflector and or skills tweaked. It would make things more interesting on my klingon but wouldn't make cloak a liability.

they already have that..the OP just can not graps the fact that you have to train the right skills and equip the right ship for it.

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I'm still astounded that players are *****ing about the Klingons ability to cloak. The Klingons have only had this technology since the creation of the genre.

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they already have that..the OP just can not graps the fact that you have to train the right skills and equip the right ship for it.

Why should you have to? Why should the federation have to waste an entire ship and character to counter something that Klingons get for free?

Besides, if you're so smart then lay it out. Give me the exact skills, setups and strategies that are used to decloak Klingons at a useful range and that will allow me to test your claims, and if they are true say "You're right" - but you can't do that can you? Your point is not to educate, or to make an argument, but to mislead and annoy people.

I'm still astounded that players are *****ing about the Klingons ability to cloak. The Klingons have only had this technology since the creation of the genre.

True, there have also been ways to find a cloaked ship and fight it ever since the creation of the genre. Where are they ingame? I mean even in the StarTrek movies there are two seperate fights where the Enterprise destroys a ship that can fire while cloaked. There are many more instances in the various shows where a ship uses a modified torpedo a detection grid or some kind of energy pulse to decloak an enemy. In another TNG episode they kill a cloaked probe by flying into the atmosphere of a planet and looking for changes in air pressure around the cloaked ship.

There are dozens of ways to find and destroy cloaked ships, Cloaking in the show is useful, but not anywhere near as overwhelmingly powerful as in this game.

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Besides, if you're so smart then lay it out. Give me the exact skills, setups and strategies that are used to decloak Klingons at a useful range and that will allow me to test your claims, and if they are true say "You're right" - but you can't do that can you? Your point is not to educate, or to make an argument, but to mislead and annoy people

Try - Charged Particle burst with a powerful sensor array and more than 25 in AUX. This will be limited to Science ships at T2 (which is good it gives you a reason to have them), but by T3 anyone can have a Science BO with this skill on their ship.

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The range on it isn't enough to counter anything that's not already attacking you. Also it doesn't at all help against Klingon ships that simply hit engine batter + evasive maneuvers, get 15km away from you, then cloak and wait for repairs so you can never finish them off.

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The range on it isn't enough to counter anything that's not already attacking you. Also it doesn't at all help against Klingon ships that simply hit engine batter + evasive maneuvers, get 15km away from you, then cloak and wait for repairs so you can never finish them off.

I've used it to decloak ships at 10km away. If that's not enough for you I'm sorry.

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I'm still astounded that players are *****ing about the Klingons ability to cloak. The Klingons have only had this technology since the creation of the genre.

Wait till Romulans are added to the mix, oh the debate that will follow....

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I have not played a Klingon, but I have fought several long boring battles against Klingons. I believe the cloaking device is overpowered, at least at my level. I have seen too many crippled Klingons escape into a cloak with less than 10% of their hull remaining to not believe that cloaking itself is overpowered. If cloaking devices went offline below 25% or 35% it would be different. I don't know if there is a cooldown for cloaking after you decloak, but if there is it doesn't seem to be long enough. Having bridge officers with the ability to detect cloaked vessels might also help.
PvP can be very exciting, but most of the time it is very boring to me. If there is no science vessel among the Federation vessels it gets even more boring. Nothing kills my gaming mood like having to wait 10-15 minutes for the Klingons to position themselves around us for a 2 minute engagement which ends with half the Klingons running away into their cloak, and then waiting another 10-15 minutes for them to build up their courage for another attack. Last night we starting flying in a single file line around the zone just to trying to draw them out, and it still took over 5 minutes before they attacked. As things stand now Klingons completely control the pace of space PvP, and the only thing a Federation captain can do to speed things up is to fly off on his own while waiting to be destroyed.

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I'm still astounded that players are *****ing about the Klingons ability to cloak. The Klingons have only had this technology since the creation of the genre.

It's not that they don't understand or appreciate that fact , they even accept as part of the gameplay. They like it just fine when it's a mindless preprogramed AI doing it . When you put a player at the controls of such a vessel , suddenly it's OP. That and the lack of a true understanding of how to play the vessel they are in.

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This thread is a classic case of not seeing the forest for the trees. There are much bigger fish to fry as it is.

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Wait till Romulans are added to the mix, oh the debate that will follow....

Yes, the klingon vs romunlan matches will be hilarious.

"So, who's going to be bait to get the other team to unlcoak first..."


That said, my only real problem with cloak is more of a game preference thing. All our detection abilities seem to max out at about 12km (while running 125 to aux). If a klingon is within 10km (max I've seen at 100 to aux) they're about ready to start shooting anyway. Feds have to be reactive instead of proactive. Just a personal preference, I don't like it and it's why I'll not be in FvK arena matches once FvF is put in on my federation character.

But like I said, that's personal preference, it's a design thing, and I've got other things I can do.

In t2 things seemed to work out pretty well as they are. Feds had to ball up and sit on their thumbs more or less while the klingons planned how to pick them apart and try to react on the fly better then the pre-planned strike. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. It did give some fun fights along the way (good premade vs good premade. I can be very happy losing in a good fight)

In t2 this wasn't so much of a problem. In t3 things get uglier, but that's not so much the cloaks fault as the amount of control added to the game. Yes both sides have it (viral matrix), but high control fights just about always go to the one to get their control applied first.

When multiple science officer BoP pilots enter the picture and your first strike is a stun on more half the ships in the group followed by ability lock downs. That my friends is a done fight, more or less. It can very easily become a 3v5 or a 2v5 before the stuns are up if the klingons focus peroperly. (Remember while stunned, you can't even change your facing or reinforce shields).

But this is more the fault of viral matrix itself then the cloak.

The only thing I'd like to see done with cloak is some sort of a timer on it. Maybe a 2 min on, 2 min off thing, that way Feds can at least know the general area to head to and try and scan. Still logn enough to change positions while cloaked and get the first strike in more often then not, but not an indefinate thing.

Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.

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I have not played a Klingon, but I have fought several long boring battles against Klingons. I believe the cloaking device is overpowered, at least at my level. I have seen too many crippled Klingons escape into a cloak with less than 10% of their hull remaining to not believe that cloaking itself is overpowered. If cloaking devices went offline below 25% or 35% it would be different. I don't know if there is a cooldown for cloaking after you decloak, but if there is it doesn't seem to be long enough. Having bridge officers with the ability to detect cloaked vessels might also help.
PvP can be very exciting, but most of the time it is very boring to me. If there is no science vessel among the Federation vessels it gets even more boring. Nothing kills my gaming mood like having to wait 10-15 minutes for the Klingons to position themselves around us for a 2 minute engagement which ends with half the Klingons running away into their cloak, and then waiting another 10-15 minutes for them to build up their courage for another attack. Last night we starting flying in a single file line around the zone just to trying to draw them out, and it still took over 5 minutes before they attacked. As things stand now Klingons completely control the pace of space PvP, and the only thing a Federation captain can do to speed things up is to fly off on his own while waiting to be destroyed.

Just as side note, as I also play a klingon. Cloaking while in combat can be a very -bad- thing. Every projectile you have incoming while you cloak still hits and goes straight to hull.

It's far safer to just disengage most times, set full power to engines, pop evasive manuovering, polarize hull, and maybe an engine battery. Further away then 10km = safe. Cloaked with a trio of quantum torps heading towards you while you're already at 30% hull or so = dead more or less.

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There are dozens of ways to find and destroy cloaked ships, Cloaking in the show is useful, but not anywhere near as overwhelmingly powerful as in this game.

Actually for the sake of the show, cloaking was never used realistically it should've been. The Federation would iether have "fast-tracked" anti-claoking tech through Darpa or been completely overwhelmed by the cloaked Klingon forces. Think of how much of an advantage stealth tech gives today in warfare in comparison.
I still don't think it is over-powered, merely a great advantage. Easily countered by teaming and using tactics.

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Wait till Romulans are added to the mix, oh the debate that will follow....
Very True, since they have better cloaks.

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It's not that they don't understand or appreciate that fact , they even accept as part of the gameplay. They like it just fine when it's a mindless preprogramed AI doing it . When you put a player at the controls of such a vessel , suddenly it's OP. That and the lack of a true understanding of how to play the vessel they are in.

So they're upset because the opponents are not "dumber" than they are? Thats the thrill of playing against another human - they adapt and always remain flexible.
I find the whole debate pointless since Cryptic is hardly going to take cloaking away from the Klingons and Romulans for the sake of balance.


Federation rules for PvP:

1) never enter combat alone - it means death
2) Always suspect you are being stalked by Klingons - don't trust them!

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But this is more the fault of viral matrix itself then the cloak.
I've seen a lot of comments about viral matrix, and to be honest I think it's fine as is (having been on the receiving end). If anything, I would only like to see some minor tweaks:
-more diminishing returns
-arena size changed to 10v10, point limit set to 25 or 30

Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.
I like this idea, and it also ties back to Star Trek lore.

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The only thing I'd like to see done with cloak is some sort of a timer on it. Maybe a 2 min on, 2 min off thing, that way Feds can at least know the general area to head to and try and scan. Still logn enough to change positions while cloaked and get the first strike in more often then not, but not an indefinate thing.

Maybe some sort of visible shimmer while moving at high speeds (impulse) while cloaked would be nice too.


Cloak has a 20 s timer
It does shimmer on cloaking , but this 100 or so years after TOS encounters so the tech should be refined.
The Feds have always been designated as a defensive body .

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The Feds have always been designated as a defensive body .


They are after all a "peacekeeping" organization... but hey it's always someone else at fault when a team loses right? I mean if I lose to a Fed team that must mean they need a nerf :rolleyes:

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I've seen a lot of comments about viral matrix, and to be honest I think it's fine as is (having been on the receiving end). If anything, I would only like to see some minor tweaks:
-more diminishing returns
-arena size changed to 10v10, point limit set to 25 or 30


I like this idea, and it also ties back to Star Trek lore.

In all honesty , in CB I thought it was going to be the predominate skill of T 3 , and it has become so . The change I might suggest is to randomize the effect and the chance to hit . Make it an ability that weakens ( like a virus would to a host ) a random core part of the ship . Basically you 'd have some percentage chance of weaken by let's suggest 50 % , for the sake of argument , shields , engines , weapons or aux . I'll leave it to Cryptic to decide what would suffice as a percentage decrease , but the full shut down is basically a death sentence once it lands , fore the most part.

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It does shimmer on cloaking , but this 100 or so years after TOS encounters so the tech should be refined.

Well technically speaking, the Klingons initially got the cloaking technology from the Romulans. The Romulans have continued to develop it while the Klingons were content with basic fixes and updates.

Also, the original idea was to have cloaks -continue- to shimmer while running at Full Impulse. :)

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In all honesty , in CB I thought it was going to be the predominate skill of T 3 , and it has become so . The change I might suggest is to randomize the effect and the chance to hit . Make it an ability that weakens ( like a virus would to a host ) a random core part of the ship . Basically you 'd have some percentage chance of weaken by let's suggest 50 % , for the sake of argument , shields , engines , weapons or aux . I'll leave it to Cryptic to decide what would suffice as a percentage decrease , but the full shut down is basically a death sentence once it lands , fore the most part.
I agree with this to the extent that lower level players should not have access to a full system shutdown. Whereas I would expect that the top rank -- Rear Admiral at present -- should have access to it.

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I agree with this to the extent that lower level players should not have access to a full system shutdown. Whereas I would expect that the top rank -- Rear Admiral at present -- should have access to it.

I don't have an issue as long as they provide an acceptible counter that one can apply to themselves. With focus fire matches which is what is currently happening the results would be the same . If the effect had a more incidious effect lowering energy levels over time slowly rather than all at once ? Then the cure needed to reverse it would take just as long to counter ?

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I don't have an issue as long as they provide an acceptible counter that one can apply to themselves.
Attack Pattern Omega I think it is? Otherwise Science Team before it hits (if done on yourself), or Science Team from an ally.

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Cloak has a 20 s timer
It does shimmer on cloaking , but this 100 or so years after TOS encounters so the tech should be refined.
The Feds have always been designated as a defensive body .


Cloak has a 20s reuse timer, not a 20s duration timer (except maybe battle cloak, but I'm talking the initial cloak)

It does shimmer when you're cloaking, but I haven't (as a fed) seen any graphical indication that I was just buzzed at 5km by a cloaked battlecruiser on impulse.

Teah, the feds have been by lore a defensive body, that's why I said it was a personal prefernce. If that's how it's supposed to be, that's how it's supposed to be. Still doesn' tmake it fun (for me). I'm personally taking steps to make pvp fun for me, I'll have my raptor tonight. (would have been sooner but the tier 1 queues have been horridly slow)

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It's funny how the cloak is referred to as perfect stealth. This is far from the truth. As I just proved in several matches in T3, it's very easy to completely block the BoP pilots from using their Battle cloak. With Target Subsystems Engines it's fairly easy to keep the Raptors any of them from Running away to get out of combat to cloak, some of the time (cooldown and beam dependent).

Oh and we won every one of those matches as Feds. I was able to spot the cloaked ships around 8km or so quite often, just from having my Aux maxed in a Science ship.

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Cloak has a 20s reuse timer, not a 20s duration timer (except maybe battle cloak, but I'm talking the initial cloak)

It does shimmer when you're cloaking, but I haven't (as a fed) seen any graphical indication that I was just buzzed at 5km by a cloaked battlecruiser on impulse.

Teah, the feds have been by lore a defensive body, that's why I said it was a personal prefernce. If that's how it's supposed to be, that's how it's supposed to be. Still doesn' tmake it fun (for me). I'm personally taking steps to make pvp fun for me, I'll have my raptor tonight. (would have been sooner but the tier 1 queues have been horridly slow)

Dude I fly a T 2 Raptor ( Tac ) and there is nothing fun about it until you gear up . I'd suggest if you're not already an engineer you re-roll , you'll find it a difficult slog. Going to T-3 Cruiser tonight with a little effort . Good luck.

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Actually I'll assume we will be getting buffed. T2 cruiser ship, more/better loot to find in PvE, more PvE content, fixes for broken missions/mission rewards and fixing broken skills.

Please PLEASE god , let them fix the stupid BO quest , if i get one more alien engineering officer with the same 4 skills im gonna lose my mind. i have about 7 of them in my assignment tab =\


^^^

YAY patch notes say we get different kinds of bridge officers now !!

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Please PLEASE god , let them fix the stupid BO quest , if i get one more alien engineering officer with the same 4 skills im gonna lose my mind. i have about 7 of them in my assignment tab =\

Umm, read the patch notes.