Ground: Why Are Feds So Awful

[Archived Post]

Granted I realize that sometimes Feds get shafted with people like this:
http://thepurge.net/public/goodjob.wmv (right click, save as)


But in general, you people are just awful at ground PvP. You're so awful, it's not even fun for me. I'm tired of games with 40 to 5 scores. It's been true T1 - T4 and on my alt it's still true T1 - T2 on the second pass.

You people are terrible.

Here's just a few pointers:

1) USE YOUR MINIMAP.

You have a map. It is mini. It shows you where your teammates are. You should try to find them. Finding your teammates takes priority over finding enemies unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

2) Get a split beam rifle. (and upgrade your outdated ground gear)

What weapon are you using right now? That weapons sucks. I don't care what you answered my question with. It sucks. Throw it into the dumpster. I don't care if it's a purple dual pistol drop that you paid 2 million credits for. It's trash. Get a split beam rifle. If you're tactical with a lot of ground combat training (T3+) get two.

The sniper rifle is superior in a 1v1 fight. Are you fighting 1v1? No. So get a split beam as your exploit weapon. For your second weapon either get a second split beam (guns do not share timers, even two identical guns) or a good expose weapon. I personally suggest a stun pistol (which has good range on the special attack) or a "full auto" weapon, which will have good range. The other pistols don't have enough range to do what you need them to do and the cylinder AE weapons don't hit enough targets. Get a good long range cone AE expose weapon to go with your good long range cone exploit weapon.

Or, as mentioned, just get two good exploit weapons, especially if you're Tactical (I do so much damage with full ground combat training that I don't need an expose to get a lot of kills).

Don't bother with melee unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

3) Get the proper kit.

Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT. Weapon malfunction is a great ability. Mines are pretty good. That shield thing that buffs your resists is good. Just stay away from deployables.

Scientists! Actually none of your kits are awful but I suggest you go for the kits that do the most number of AE exposes. Think of an expose attack as an ability that says, "10% chance to allow you one-shot your opponent". Get those. The heals can be helpful too but you're rarely going to have the reaction time to cure an expose so I think the usefulness is fairly limited. If people want heals they can carry hypos.

Tacticals! Most of your kits are good. I'd stay away from Close Combat kits because melee is mostly just silly but cloaking can be a good way of dashing behind an enemy group and getting some great flanking shots. I personally like the Security kits because of the resist buffs and the "fake expose" which causes enemies to waste their special attacks (and also further buffs your allies' resists) but the Fire Team and Operative and Squad Leader kits are all handy too. Just make sure you keep your buffs up all the time.

4) Medium/Large Hypos. Stock up.

Find the vendor that sells T1 ground equipment for cash. He'll sell small, medium and large hypos. T2 and beyond you'll have plenty of money to blow on these things. Every slot on your character and in your backpack should be filled with these things. They cycle fast, they're big heals, they're cheap, there's no reason not to carry a hundred of them. There are also +damage expendables you can use that are on a separate timer from the hypos. There are also shield heal expendables but I don't find them that useful because shields heal so fast anyway.

I would probably never kill anyone with my bat'leth if you idiots would just use hypos.

5) Rolling ups your defense. Sprinting ups your defense. Roll and sprint more.

6) Are you taking fire? Get behind cover, you incompetent toh-pah!

7) Deal with melee spam.

If someone gets in your face, either get away from them or spam your rifle melee attack until they get exposed, then disintegrate them. If you don't do it to them, they'll certainly do it to you. (I usually sprint backwards away from these people because I'd rather bet that I can kill them with gunfire than take the 50/50 chance on melee spam to see who can expose who first).

8) Learn what the "expose" symbol looks like.

It's a red rotating circle type thing. If you see it on yourself then you're probably dead. In the unlikely event you can actually move, hide behind cover until it goes away.

Being exposed by most sources will cause a 10 second hold which means you won't be able to do anything except wait to die. It sucks. I agree. You'll just have to deal with it like everyone else.

9) Target Next Exposed

There is a keybinding for this. By default I believe it's bound to "G". It targets the next exposed person. This is very handy. Although your split beam rifle will tend to guarantee that you can hit exposed people without aiming at them, targeting them first will guarantee the hit.

10) Adjust your controls.

Did you know you can turn off that "zoom" feature when you go into aim mode? Makes ground combat soo much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

I also personally have my ground controls set up so that I never "automatically face off screen targets" (which will get you killed) and so that nothing I do will cause me to select a target unless I actually hit TAB. Normally I just hit "fire" and let it shoot whatever is in front of me. With my awesome split beam it really doesn't matter that much what I'm targeting anyway because I'm going to hit everything in a cone in front of me. Sometimes I will target someone to make sure I can chase them down and finish them off but I rarely find this to be necessary.

It's rarely necessary because most of you are idiots who will stand there behind your worthless deployables, firing your stupid worthless pistol and not healing yourself with hypos because you didn't bring any and not taking cover, so I can kill you without actually needing to target you anyway.





Now, heed this message and go forth and suck no more. You're boring me to death with your horrible, incompetent gameplay. It's like you're trying to grief me out of the game by just sucking as badly as you all do.

By the way, Jackelope, thanks a lot for rewarding the losers so richly that most of them don't even care enough to try.

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I vote for changing the title so more people will read it, then sticky for truth.

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I stopped caring about ground based pvp tbh.

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Every time I'm in a match with my fellows feds, I find that they don't do **** to hold up the team (I'm in the commander PvP tier). It's getting tiresome. I frequently dish out 3000 - 10,000 damage in one match, and my team has like 5 - 350. Every match I've played in the past few weeks has been my team getting *****, me getting all the kills, and the other team laughing at us.

I agree with this thread.

Either figure out how to fire your gun, or unsubscribe, because we don't want you taking up valuable space for people who actually know how to play.

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In related news, I don't think it's fair that Feds get to complete their "die 25 times" quest so easily in PvP. I haven't completed that quest in like a week.

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I'm pretty sure we don't have that quest, lol.

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I vote for changing the title so more people will read it, then sticky for truth.

I agree. Titles that dig at anyone end up not providing the help they offer due to folks automatically avoiding such threads.

Ground Combat tips & Tricks would be been a much better title

In related news, I don't think it's fair that Feds get to complete their "die 25 times" quest so easily in PvP. I haven't completed that quest in like a week.

Feds don't get that quest.

Thanks for the G key, I hadn't realized that one was there.

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One of the biggest issues I have seen are all the level 11's running into PvP with their tier 1 equipment and then wondering why the people with the big guns and big health walk all over them.

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I think it's because the pve is so easy and also boring, dulls people's wits. On hypos- even thought I don't do ground pvp about a 3rd of my inventory is hypos and powercells, others may carry a lot less as pve doesn't need them and they might carry a lot of items or crafting stuff on them.

I'm thinking engineer deployables are probably the best thing they have for pve too since surviving isn't exactly difficult, so the best kits they have are probably deployables.

Also for the rare times I enter ground pvp I love the medic kit, it's too much fun running about being invincible(sprint and roll dudes).

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I was thinking the same thing today when I was playing. I don't even know how it is possible to have such low damage numbers as most of the Fed players I run across have. Don't get me wrong, I have seen some good Fed players, but the majority of them I run into anymore are just sad, which sucks, because I know they are trying.

Was actually in a match earlier today where our team of 4 Klingons was under constant assault from all sides for the last half of the match. When the game ended, I noticed we had only died five times. It was literally 4 against 5 and we kept on so well...

I do think a majority of it has to do with the fact that most Feds are used to solo play with Bridge Officers and when they keep losing in ground PvP, they just shrug and go do more PvE stuff.

I have gotten to a point where I give advice to the Feds in zone chat during a match. One person exposed me five different times during a match and never exploited, I thought for sure I was dead every time till I realized she didn't have another weapon...

I still enjoy a good slaughter, but I can see it getting a little ridiculous later on.

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Most of it is just lazy mistakes, like was mentioned having ZERO exploit attacks. That makes no sense. It's mostly there are a ton of fed PvE players that dip into PvP constantly, but have never really bothered to learn anything about it in the least. Given the huge fed queues not much we can do about it either, people just get bored and give up on having a fed pvp-based char. On the other hand you aren't going to see half the klink team pug end up being a bunch of PvE'ers trying it out, since there is no klink PvE.

Really, it's the reason that when FvF comes out I'm dropping FvK ground combat as well, cause I'm really getting tired of being stuck in with awful pugs versus in many cases klink premades. At least with FvF there is an equal chance the other team is an awful pug. Expect everyone else fed-side to do the exact same.

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Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT.

DON'T TELL THEM THAT!

It takes long enough to finish that stupid "Destroy 10 Turrets" quest as is now.

( :p )

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I believe I complete the "Kill 50 ground-based NPCs" quest on my klingon character in one match once.

I think that says enough about all-engineer deployable spam effectiveness. (Believe me though, I was scratching my head going "Where am I going to find ground-based NPCs as a klingon?)

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You'll probably find that most of the more talented/commited Federation PvPers prefare Space Combat for numerous reasons.

It is however true of both sides. PUGs for both the Feds and Klingons comprise equally dull and untalented PvPers and both win and lose, roughly 50/50. Pre mades however are again, much the same. As I stated above, you will find more Federation pre mades in space and almost non for ground combat.

Now, the advice given in the OP is nice, but quite useless when facing an organised pre made on the ground. No amount of hypos/shield pops, sprinting, crouching etc will keep you alive against a 5 man zerg with ample stuns and holds.

Feds will improve when we learn that to go on the offensive is to win, to spam stuns and holds is to win, to utilise flanking and to guzzle as many devices as you can in a fight is to win. And of course, to group up with good voice comms or other forms of communication.

Best tips? Fight dirty. Leave your e-honour at the entrace.

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Griffin, I think you'd be surprised at how many Klingon pugs play like premades. At least the pugs I've solo joined, the Klingons usually do a decent job of sticking together and getting good damage numbers.

I also think you'd be surprised at how little our premades communicate in Vent. Occasionally we'll say "one coming from behind", which is something you could see anyway on the minimap but there's generally not much need for calling targets or anything like that.

In space, I'd agree with you. Premades on voice comms have a huge advantage over pugs but on the ground I think pugs and premades can be on equal footing if they are equally talented individuals.


So when I say I'm tired of one-sided matches I don't just mean when I'm in my premade. Even pugging it we always win, usually with final score of 40-20 or better. I'm sure there are terrible Klingon players out there but there are a lot more terrible Fed players. And some of their mistakes (like not having or using an exploit weapon) is just a head scratcher.

If I could change the thread title, I would change it to "Ground: Why Feds Are So Awful". It's a dig, but they deserve it, on account of how horrible they are at ground combat. Getting tips from a Klingon comes at a cost of getting my digs in.



I wish there was a global Klingon channel so we could say things like, "Hey, start queuing for KvK ground combat! I'm sick of fighting these worthless Feds and need some real competition."

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Nice post, and unfortunately for the most part very true...

In Ground pugs most fed players just don't seem to be focused on sticking together and giving you guys a decent challenge...and, I got sick of my main being ripped apart in 40-0 ish matches.

So, I've created a new character with the firm intention of finding a fleet, and playing with a set of people who actually want to fight as a group.

Otherwise...no point. Not going to play pugs any more...let the teens run around getting picked off 1 at a time by a bunch of five Klingons. I want a decent game.

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You can't exploit when you have 4 other klingons knocking your ass down... Trust me.. I'm banking on the exploit blaze.. but something is wrong when I hit that and the guy doesn't vaporize?

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I've been playing ground on my alt (Kant). I think I could roll most of these fed teams alone.

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I've been playing ground on my alt (Kant). I think I could roll most of these fed teams alone.

ya right... if you shoot and kite.. maybe...

[Archived Post]

Granted I realize that sometimes Feds get shafted with people like this:
http://thepurge.net/public/goodjob.wmv (right click, save as)


But in general, you people are just awful at ground PvP. You're so awful, it's not even fun for me. I'm tired of games with 40 to 5 scores. It's been true T1 - T4 and on my alt it's still true T1 - T2 on the second pass.

You people are terrible.

Here's just a few pointers:

1) USE YOUR MINIMAP.

You have a map. It is mini. It shows you where your teammates are. You should try to find them. Finding your teammates takes priority over finding enemies unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

2) Get a split beam rifle.

What weapon are you using right now? That weapons sucks. I don't care what you answered my question with. It sucks. Throw it into the dumpster. I don't care if it's a purple dual pistol drop that you paid 2 million credits for. It's trash. Get a split beam rifle. If you're tactical with a lot of ground combat training (T3+) get two.

The sniper rifle is superior in a 1v1 fight. Are you fighting 1v1? No. So get a split beam as your exploit weapon. For your second weapon either get a second split beam (guns do not share timers, even two identical guns) or a good expose weapon. I personally suggest a stun pistol (which has good range on the special attack) or a "full auto" weapon, which will have good range. The other pistols don't have enough range to do what you need them to do and the cylinder AE weapons don't hit enough targets. Get a good long range cone AE expose weapon to go with your good long range cone exploit weapon.

Or, as mentioned, just get two good exploit weapons, especially if you're Tactical (I do so much damage with full ground combat training that I don't need an expose to get a lot of kills).

Don't bother with melee unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

3) Get the proper kit.

Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT. Weapon malfunction is a great ability. Mines are pretty good. That shield thing that buffs your resists is good. Just stay away from deployables.

Scientists! Actually none of your kits are awful but I suggest you go for the kits that do the most number of AE exposes. Think of an expose attack as an ability that says, "10% chance to allow you one-shot your opponent". Get those. The heals can be helpful too but you're rarely going to have the reaction time to cure an expose so I think the usefulness is fairly limited. If people want heals they can carry hypos.

Tacticals! Most of your kits are good. I'd stay away from Close Combat kits because melee is mostly just silly but cloaking can be a good way of dashing behind an enemy group and getting some great flanking shots. I personally like the Security kits because of the resist buffs and the "fake expose" which causes enemies to waste their special attacks (and also further buffs your allies' resists) but the Fire Team and Operative and Squad Leader kits are all handy too. Just make sure you keep your buffs up all the time.

4) Medium/Large Hypos. Stock up.

Find the vendor that sells T1 ground equipment for cash. He'll sell small, medium and large hypos. T2 and beyond you'll have plenty of money to blow on these things. Every slot on your character and in your backpack should be filled with these things. They cycle fast, they're big heals, they're cheap, there's no reason not to carry a hundred of them. There are also +damage expendables you can use that are on a separate timer from the hypos. There are also shield heal expendables but I don't find them that useful because shields heal so fast anyway.

I would probably never kill anyone with my bat'leth if you idiots would just use hypos.

5) Rolling ups your defense. Sprinting ups your defense. Roll and sprint more.

6) Are you taking fire? Get behind cover, you incompetent toh-pah!

7) Deal with melee spam.

If someone gets in your face, either get away from them or spam your rifle melee attack until they get exposed, then disintegrate them. If you don't do it to them, they'll certainly do it to you. (I usually sprint backwards away from these people because I'd rather bet that I can kill them with gunfire than take the 50/50 chance on melee spam to see who can expose who first).

8) Learn what the "expose" symbol looks like.

It's a red rotating circle type thing. If you see it on yourself then you're probably dead. In the unlikely event you can actually move, hide behind cover until it goes away.

Being exposed by most sources will cause a 10 second hold which means you won't be able to do anything except wait to die. It sucks. I agree. You'll just have to deal with it like everyone else.

9) Target Next Exposed

There is a keybinding for this. By default I believe it's bound to "G". It targets the next exposed person. This is very handy. Although your split beam rifle will tend to guarantee that you can hit exposed people without aiming at them, targeting them first will guarantee the hit.

10) Adjust your controls.

Did you know you can turn off that "zoom" feature when you go into aim mode? Makes ground combat soo much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

I also personally have my ground controls set up so that I never "automatically face off screen targets" (which will get you killed) and so that nothing I do will cause me to select a target unless I actually hit TAB. Normally I just hit "fire" and let it shoot whatever is in front of me. With my awesome split beam it really doesn't matter that much what I'm targeting anyway because I'm going to hit everything in a cone in front of me. Sometimes I will target someone to make sure I can chase them down and finish them off but I rarely find this to be necessary.

It's rarely necessary because most of you are idiots who will stand there behind your worthless deployables, firing your stupid worthless pistol and not healing yourself with hypos because you didn't bring any and not taking cover, so I can kill you without actually needing to target you anyway.





Now, heed this message and go forth and suck no more. You're boring me to death with your horrible, incompetent gameplay. It's like you're trying to grief me out of the game by just sucking as badly as you all do.

By the way, Jackelope, thanks a lot for rewarding the losers so richly that most of them don't even care enough to try.


I know you trying to be helpful etc.. but you personally come off being an ass and one of the WoW arena freaks that always annoys the crap out of me.

Actually the Science officers can't use aoe damage kits kill t3 I think it was... so till then.. Sci officer kinda blow in ground pvp..

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Sci officers are fine. They're the bloody tanks. Get a medic kit and spam heals on yourself. The big heal halves all incoming damage. Hey, with it I even survived an exploit attack once! Amazing!

But yeah, joking aside, they're pretty useless at actually killing anything since the worst kit they've got has a hold but not enough damage buffs to make use of that. Oh well, we can always join in the riflebutting idiocy, 10% chance to expose plus spam knockdown and holds! And can be used with every weapon in the game! Cryptic sure was nice to make sure the battlefield is just full of annoying CC all the damn time, yup.

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You can't exploit when you have 4 other klingons knocking your ass down... Trust me.. I'm banking on the exploit blaze.. but something is wrong when I hit that and the guy doesn't vaporize?

if they are within melee range, your engineer (mines) and science (AoE root, knockdown, etc) havent done their job

95% of fed engys use worthless deployable kits instead of mines

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I figured out the turrets = crap part on my own with my engy klingon (explosives for the win), but this was news to me:

9) Target Next Exposed

There is a keybinding for this. By default I believe it's bound to "G". It targets the next exposed person. This is very handy. Although your split beam rifle will tend to guarantee that you can hit exposed people without aiming at them, targeting them first will guarantee the hit.

Holy bleep! Thanks!

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Another thing that bugs me alot is the actual queueing. Like...last night I joined Deserted Facility. 5 feds 'n me, 0 klinks. I left after about 10 minutes. Next match was Assimliated Cruiser, 1 fed 'n me vs 3, then 4, then 6, klinks. I left when the score got to 6 for klinks, 1 for fed (yay for my exploit!...), another fed never arrived.

Makes ground combat alittle annoying ontop of all the player skills...or lack thereof.

Some fed pugs can be good. I still fondly remember one from OB, LtC range. It ended 40 to us, 38 to them. Both sides fought as a fairly coherent team 'n stuck together!

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I know you trying to be helpful etc.. but you personally come off being an ass and one of the WoW arena freaks that always annoys the crap out of me.

Actually the Science officers can't use aoe damage kits kill t3 I think it was... so till then.. Sci officer kinda blow in ground pvp..

Too bad your wrong. Tachyon harmonic is available from lvl 1. Science officer ability tricorder scan is what, lvl 4 or 6?

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Most engineers spam turrets, deployables and shields while their damage is utter **** the targetting system means if they stand behind them the tab targetting picks them up and I have to blow up theturret first which is as annoying as hell.

As many people have said Feds have PvE they probably use the same weapons and equipment in PvP as PvE where as klingons have only got PvP so everything is just about PvP holds, max damage and shields.

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Too bad your wrong. Tachyon harmonic is available from lvl 1. Science officer ability tricorder scan is what, lvl 4 or 6?

Tachyon is absolute garbage. Only works if they have a shield up, does like a sixth of their overall shield in damage, and the knockback is no better than that on most pulse rifles. And the sets it tend to be attached to are sonic pulse/triage, which is basically a single melee attack in PBAoE instead of just 180% forward, and the weakest heal in the game on the longest cooldown. Whoopee.

So basically, nobody in their right mind would be using that kit.

Only two viable kits are medic (healing yourself since the hot makes you sorta-immune to exposes for a short bit), and exobiologist (I think that's the one?) with the stasis field which can be used with stun phasers to be very annoying. Both of those kits lack any sort of punch though, so you only kill people who have no clue how to run or defend themselves, or more likely, by harassing them until your team focuses them down.

I personally chose medic all the time because as fun as the holds are, running up to them and mashing melee is actually worse by far, which every other kit WITH damage abilities will be doing to you anyways as you try and get off a stasis field.

Anyways, all this really means is ground combat is pretty garbage in design overall.

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I'm curious, what tier are you talking about?

After hitting Admiral 45 (Science) I made my Klingon (Tactical) which is T2 by now, and we get our ass handed to us everytime in PVP vs Feds (Ground). We aren't premade, but stick together and most Klingons know how to increase our chances. But afterall, Feds hit too hard and can take too much. (I don't think it's me who's the problem, I've done quite a dozen ground combats vs Feds now and it's the same with every team I join).
Surprisingly, I wanted to check out Ground PVP with my Fed this morning for the first time, and we were just overrun by Klingons. But this was my first time so I was probably not well equipped for PVP.

:confused:

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As many people have said Feds have PvE they probably use the same weapons and equipment in PvP as PvE where as klingons have only got PvP so everything is just about PvP holds, max damage and shields.

I've yet to see a single piece of gear in this game that works better in PvE than in PvP, or vice versa. Garbage stuff like deployables are pretty worthless in PvE too, wheras stuff like Viral Matrix is also pretty powerful against NPC ships.

This isn't really a game where the setups are going to differ that much. Ground PvP is spamming CC. Ground PvE is made laughably easy by doing the same.

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ground pvp is fine feds will be worse off as all they do is pve all day kligons just pvp all day yes you do get your not so good player but apart for that we would be better then feds at pvp

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Eh, who cares about that, after the free month the PvE crowd 'trying out' PvP goes away anyways. And by that time we might have the FvF they are going to add. If the klink faction even survives the introduction of FvF, the few groups that will still queue up for KvF will be fed premades.

I mean, unless I'm in a premade, I know I'm going to keep to FvF, since the likely hood of ending up in one of the awful premade vs. pug matches will go way down.

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Good post with some excellent advice. I would change the tite though.

I play both Klings and Feds and I have noticed that yes the klings definately seem to be better pvp ground players but that is because its all we can do.

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Most fed players suck at everything, not just ground combat, dude. True story.

As for contributing to your list of tips, Pulse Rifles are probably the best Expose weapons in the game. They hit like ****ing trucks when I get Tricorder Scan up, and seem to expose way more often than any other weaon I've used besides the Arcwave types. They also send people flying across the screen when the high knockback chance procs, and they can be used from maximum range.

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I've levelled both Klingon and Fed characters to Captain levels and I've pretty much seen the same amount of horrible players on both sides in ground PvP. I guess I was unlucky on my Klink.

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Granted I realize that sometimes Feds get shafted with people like this:
http://thepurge.net/public/goodjob.wmv (right click, save as)


But in general, you people are just awful at ground PvP. You're so awful, it's not even fun for me. I'm tired of games with 40 to 5 scores. It's been true T1 - T4 and on my alt it's still true T1 - T2 on the second pass.

You people are terrible.

Here's just a few pointers:

1) USE YOUR MINIMAP.

You have a map. It is mini. It shows you where your teammates are. You should try to find them. Finding your teammates takes priority over finding enemies unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

2) Get a split beam rifle.

What weapon are you using right now? That weapons sucks. I don't care what you answered my question with. It sucks. Throw it into the dumpster. I don't care if it's a purple dual pistol drop that you paid 2 million credits for. It's trash. Get a split beam rifle. If you're tactical with a lot of ground combat training (T3+) get two.

The sniper rifle is superior in a 1v1 fight. Are you fighting 1v1? No. So get a split beam as your exploit weapon. For your second weapon either get a second split beam (guns do not share timers, even two identical guns) or a good expose weapon. I personally suggest a stun pistol (which has good range on the special attack) or a "full auto" weapon, which will have good range. The other pistols don't have enough range to do what you need them to do and the cylinder AE weapons don't hit enough targets. Get a good long range cone AE expose weapon to go with your good long range cone exploit weapon.

Or, as mentioned, just get two good exploit weapons, especially if you're Tactical (I do so much damage with full ground combat training that I don't need an expose to get a lot of kills).

Don't bother with melee unless you are winning by a lot, like me.

3) Get the proper kit.

Engineers! Listen up. DEPLOYABLES ARE WORTHLESS HUNKS OF CRAP. I'm sorry, but it's true. All of your deployables are stupid and worthless and awful. Throw your stupid deployable kits in the garbage immediately. If you want to whine to Cryptic, feel free to do so but in the meantime GET A BETTER KIT. Weapon malfunction is a great ability. Mines are pretty good. That shield thing that buffs your resists is good. Just stay away from deployables.

Scientists! Actually none of your kits are awful but I suggest you go for the kits that do the most number of AE exposes. Think of an expose attack as an ability that says, "10% chance to allow you one-shot your opponent". Get those. The heals can be helpful too but you're rarely going to have the reaction time to cure an expose so I think the usefulness is fairly limited. If people want heals they can carry hypos.

Tacticals! Most of your kits are good. I'd stay away from Close Combat kits because melee is mostly just silly but cloaking can be a good way of dashing behind an enemy group and getting some great flanking shots. I personally like the Security kits because of the resist buffs and the "fake expose" which causes enemies to waste their special attacks (and also further buffs your allies' resists) but the Fire Team and Operative and Squad Leader kits are all handy too. Just make sure you keep your buffs up all the time.

4) Medium/Large Hypos. Stock up.

Find the vendor that sells T1 ground equipment for cash. He'll sell small, medium and large hypos. T2 and beyond you'll have plenty of money to blow on these things. Every slot on your character and in your backpack should be filled with these things. They cycle fast, they're big heals, they're cheap, there's no reason not to carry a hundred of them. There are also +damage expendables you can use that are on a separate timer from the hypos. There are also shield heal expendables but I don't find them that useful because shields heal so fast anyway.

I would probably never kill anyone with my bat'leth if you idiots would just use hypos.

5) Rolling ups your defense. Sprinting ups your defense. Roll and sprint more.

6) Are you taking fire? Get behind cover, you incompetent toh-pah!

7) Deal with melee spam.

If someone gets in your face, either get away from them or spam your rifle melee attack until they get exposed, then disintegrate them. If you don't do it to them, they'll certainly do it to you. (I usually sprint backwards away from these people because I'd rather bet that I can kill them with gunfire than take the 50/50 chance on melee spam to see who can expose who first).

8) Learn what the "expose" symbol looks like.

It's a red rotating circle type thing. If you see it on yourself then you're probably dead. In the unlikely event you can actually move, hide behind cover until it goes away.

Being exposed by most sources will cause a 10 second hold which means you won't be able to do anything except wait to die. It sucks. I agree. You'll just have to deal with it like everyone else.

9) Target Next Exposed

There is a keybinding for this. By default I believe it's bound to "G". It targets the next exposed person. This is very handy. Although your split beam rifle will tend to guarantee that you can hit exposed people without aiming at them, targeting them first will guarantee the hit.

10) Adjust your controls.

Did you know you can turn off that "zoom" feature when you go into aim mode? Makes ground combat soo much more enjoyable, in my opinion.

I also personally have my ground controls set up so that I never "automatically face off screen targets" (which will get you killed) and so that nothing I do will cause me to select a target unless I actually hit TAB. Normally I just hit "fire" and let it shoot whatever is in front of me. With my awesome split beam it really doesn't matter that much what I'm targeting anyway because I'm going to hit everything in a cone in front of me. Sometimes I will target someone to make sure I can chase them down and finish them off but I rarely find this to be necessary.

It's rarely necessary because most of you are idiots who will stand there behind your worthless deployables, firing your stupid worthless pistol and not healing yourself with hypos because you didn't bring any and not taking cover, so I can kill you without actually needing to target you anyway.





Now, heed this message and go forth and suck no more. You're boring me to death with your horrible, incompetent gameplay. It's like you're trying to grief me out of the game by just sucking as badly as you all do.

By the way, Jackelope, thanks a lot for rewarding the losers so richly that most of them don't even care enough to try.

Im a fed and many times Im in a group that likes to run off on thier own thinking they are space rambos. Its frustrating because when we get owned because no one wants to work as a team against a organised Klingon team I want to bang my head against a wall. I often wonder if alot of federation players are just using pvp as a means to power lvl and not play.

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If you are a science officer there is a kit that gives an aoe root with a chance to expose. Every now and then it exposes two or three people. If you also have the split beam every now and then you get to melt half the other team. It makes them cry.

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its not just feds, there are some klingon players thats lame, but not that lame that they sit there and die.

some players just don't know to actually "group" (invite) to make that team, although i don't get why its not automatic, sure would take away the few seconds wasted trying to invite.

Then theres the spawn...oops spawned in the middle of the opposing team, instant death. Needs to be corrected to either a set immunity and the inability to do anything till moving after a few seconds.

...this would be a advice thread, and I have nothing but recommedations for improvement game mechanic...mebbe add tribble bowl, hold onto the tribble for points to win.

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I have a suggestion:
I know I'm an awful PVP player, but I think it's fun and I'm learning something new with every match. However, as you all realized, the organisation of "PUGs" is mostly non-existent. Often I wish one or two experienced players would step in, lead the team and tell us what to do, give us some practical lessons.
I appreciate posts like this, but the theory can only teach you that much. If you really want to see better PVP play, you might have to take us by the hand, if just for a few steps. :D
I'd be looking forward to to pass my experience on as well once I learn to PVP. I think you call that a snowball system?

This goes for Feds and Klingons, of course. I play and enjoy both.

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Im a fed and many times Im in a group that likes to run off on thier own thinking they are space rambos. Its frustrating because when we get owned because no one wants to work as a team against a organised Klingon team I want to bang my head against a wall. I often wonder if alot of federation players are just using pvp as a means to power lvl and not play.

Doubt it, given how long it takes to get into a match fedside due to queues. I mean, yeah, the whole 'get as much xp whether you win or not' thing is pretty stupid, and seems tempting, but when you have to wait between matches sometimes up to half an hour or more even during the day, that's not efficient at all.

For xp they'd be better off grinding DSE's. For gear they can grind exploration (which is pretty similar to the pvp gear and faster to get due to no queues).

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Good thread i learned a couple of new things. :)

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Tier 2 Science is not useless.

There is a kit with ALL expose chance attacks/debuffs. Look for it. Get it. Do as the OP said and grab 2 sniper rifles or 1 sniper rifle and 1 split beam.

I play engineer. I have a kit with weapon malfunction ( expose chance ), a shield recharge, a weapon malfunction fix. I don't bother with the turret, generators or mines. The ONLY thing they are good for is jacking with targeting. There is a bug when you do nearest enemy or nearest expose that it will target a turret/generator/cover shield before it targets a player EVEN if there is a player closer.

I use a stun pistol and a sniper rifle. I would go with two exploit weapons, but I have less expose abilities and I need the fast cooldown on the pistol to help generate some. Plus the stun is lovely. My damage does go down though and it hurts some, but coupled with my science buddy, we do pretty good on either Fed or Klingon.

Feel free to look me up if you want to run some PVP. Both my guys and my buddies are going through T2, but now close to T3.

Federation = Froboz@Capt.Froboz
Klingon = Kardaffi@Capt.Froboz

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I have been ground PvPing as a fed a LOT with my current character, from T1 onwards. I have noticed that feds are much less experienced and organized overall, but we also have a much larger player pool to draw from as well.

I do have a question and observation. I have noticed that the KDF side seems to do much higher damage overall than feds, even when the feds are using split beams. Why is this?

KDF can do some ungodly damage even on non-exploit attacks. I was running the Physician kit for a while, and with the hyperspray buff that gives me roughly 18% resistance to energy I was still 1-shot many times by non-exploit attacks (full shields and health -- over 2k dmg at Commander by split beams).

I rarely see feds doing that much damage.

Anyway, thanks for this thread. Just wish more feds would read it.

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Good post. My experiences too.

I am an engineer, I use the weapon malfunction/mines/bomb kit in pvp (enemy neutralization).

I drop mines in doors, bombs on my position, and malfunction anyone that gets in my face or when I need to get away.

No lie, I had one guy sending me angry tells because he thought that kdf did more damage than feds in ground pvp. I had to try to figure out what he was doing wrong, with him getting angry at me thinking I am patronizing him.

I know you trying to be helpful etc.. but you personally come off being an ass and one of the WoW arena freaks that always annoys the crap out of me.

Actually the Science officers can't use aoe damage kits kill t3 I think it was... so till then.. Sci officer kinda blow in ground pvp..

Dude. Seriously. Shhhhh. Just listen.

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I have been ground PvPing as a fed a LOT with my current character, from T1 onwards. I have noticed that feds are much less experienced and organized overall, but we also have a much larger player pool to draw from as well.

I do have a question and observation. I have noticed that the KDF side seems to do much higher damage overall than feds, even when the feds are using split beams. Why is this?

KDF can do some ungodly damage even on non-exploit attacks. I was running the Physician kit for a while, and with the hyperspray buff that gives me roughly 18% resistance to energy I was still 1-shot many times by non-exploit attacks (full shields and health -- over 2k dmg at Commander by split beams).

I rarely see feds doing that much damage.

Anyway, thanks for this thread. Just wish more feds would read it.

Might be the fact that Klingon's get racial bonus to crits and weapons... I think feds can get them too.. but seriously were you thinking of creating your first char for only ground pvp?

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Doubt it, given how long it takes to get into a match fedside due to queues. I mean, yeah, the whole 'get as much xp whether you win or not' thing is pretty stupid, and seems tempting, but when you have to wait between matches sometimes up to half an hour or more even during the day, that's not efficient at all.

For xp they'd be better off grinding DSE's. For gear they can grind exploration (which is pretty similar to the pvp gear and faster to get due to no queues).


Reminds me of Warhammer....

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Yeah, in general our Fed teams are far more disorganized than the average Klinger team. Last night I PUG'd for a bit in PvP, and most of the matches we got steamrolled (in general, I'd say it's about a 30% chance that I get 2 or more experienced, organized PvPers on a PUG -- last night seemed to defy those odds). Anyhow, during the last couple matches I ran, I was with the same PUG, and one of the people was absolutely stunned that I was topping 6,000 damage (whereas the others on the team were averaging 2,000 - 3,000) -- I didn't know what to say, since that's honestly where everyone on the team needs to be, if they're pulling their weight. Unfortunately, I think the biggest problem is that most Feds spend more time dead than the klingers do (which was evident last night :rolleyes:), and less time alive and givin' 'em hell -- and the major reason for this is that they've got the "hero syndrome" from PvE, where they can pile solo into a group of enemies and come out just fine. No attention is paid to focusing on a single team target, or utilizing terrain for cover.

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I've been accused in tells of having some kind of innate bonus to damage.

I pointed out that I generally don't shoot unless I am flanking. I strive to flank, and strive to control my enemy through use of mines. Real simple stuff.

The dude got ****ed off when I tried to ask him what he was doing wrong. He acted like I was talking down to him, when really I was just trying to figure out why he was failing.

Then I see people run out into the middle of rooms, not find cover when exposed, run around with no shields, run into 2-3 opponents at once...

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Hey, you weren't supposed to bump this thread. :-p I made another, less snarky one with some new provocative information:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=124515


Curiously, the one without all the jabbing, snarky comments fell off the front page with no replies so fast, most of you probably never even saw it! Which is, I think, a vital lesson in Forum Threadcrafting: if you want your post to be noticed, you kind of have to be a jerk.

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Hey, you weren't supposed to bump this thread. :-p I made another, less snarky one with some new provocative information:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=124515


Curiously, the one without all the jabbing, snarky comments fell off the front page with no replies so fast, most of you probably never even saw it! Which is, I think, a vital lesson in Forum Threadcrafting: if you want your post to be noticed, you kind of have to be a jerk.

That's how it works with women too.

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Pfft, I've been accused of getting more exposes than I should. Apparently the computers are on my side!