Cryptic Please Correct your glaring Error

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Miltary and Diplomatic Ranks are not and never have been titles.
Titles are Honerfics given for use in the Armed Forces and Diplomatic Corp with ranks. So you cannot be Admiral Captain Jones-Smythe but you can have Admiral Sir Jones Smythe. You would be Ambassador Lord So & So

Titles in STO could be such tihngs as Veteran of Starbase 24. Defender of Uranus. and such given to signify bravery above and beyond the call of duty. Something actually worthy of recieveing. Something you would be proud to have.

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"title" in this case, refers to "the text that you want to appear over your character's head"

In my case, (for the moment) it is:

Career Officer
Lambert

It is also important to remember (as Cryptic has) that "not everyone" wants to rank beyond "Captain". In fact many of us work tirelessly for years in some back room at our local copy centers year after year just so some Star Trek fan club someplace can call us "Commander" or whatever... and many of us will place a great deal of pride in being called "Lieutenant" regardless of whichever rank the game places us.

The ranks in STO are simply "levels of achievement within the game".. think of them as numbers if you prefer.. the names are only there to be "cute and startrekkish"

Making the titles (ranks) optional is a great idea, and allows roleplayers to continue to play "Captain Quarnof" or "Ensign Expendable" long after the game has ranked them to Rear Admiral... the only downside being that you must unlock the rank titles by achieving that level in the game first. Meanwhile, there are still plenty of other titles available, including "Crash Test Tribble" (for load-testing the beta server last weekend), "Ambassador" (something about being an ancient forum member I think?), "Career Officer" (buying a lifetime subscription to the game) and others. I'm sure more honorific titles will be winnable as time goes on.

Try not to take things so seriously.

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But it's stupid to have the ranks and titles the same do you want to be addressed as Admiral Captain. or Would you rather be addressed as Admiral Defender of Starbase 24. and that is the same whatever rank you are.
I have no problem with it being optional the problem is the titles are not logical. It's looks like Cryptic were just to lazy to do a little bit of Creative thinking.

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They don't address me by my title.

ever.

My rank is "LtCmdr" my "title" is "Career Officer" my short name is "Lambert".. every time "they" talk to me, it's "Lieutenant Commander Lambert" (or occassionally just "Captain" where the dialog doesn't seem to be referring to my rank, more to my position as ship's commanding officer.. we are all "Starship Captains" regardless of rank)

Did you fill out your character's info with something weird like "Captain" as your short name?

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This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=5&a=6) ~ Phoxe

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Making the titles (ranks) optional is a great idea, and allows roleplayers to continue to play "Captain Quarnof" or "Ensign Expendable" long after the game has ranked them to Rear Admiral... the only downside being that you must unlock the rank titles by achieving that level in the game first. Meanwhile, there are still plenty of other titles available, including "Crash Test Tribble" (for load-testing the beta server last weekend), "Ambassador" (something about being an ancient forum member I think?), "Career Officer" (buying a lifetime subscription to the game) and others. I'm sure more honorific titles will be winnable as time goes on.

I fail to see anything idiotic or lacking sense in this explanation.

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This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=5&a=6) ~ Phoxe

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Actually thats what people who want to be addressed as Captain should have done. This is not about what you are called or not but the idiocy of having titles which are in fact ranks and are the same as in game ranks. It makes no sense at all

Actually they are not are far as this game goes....my title is captain of the the Tirpitz. My rank is Commander. I fail to see any logic in your argument.

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Because as has been stated Captain is not a title neither is Admiral, Ensign or Ambassador they are ranks. I can only assume the confusion over this is because most of you are non-native Americans or come from other countries which have never had a Monarchy and Titles.

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Because as has been stated Captain is not a title neither is Admiral, Ensign or Ambassador they are ranks. I can only assume the confusion over this is because most of you are non-native Americans or come from other countries which have never had a Monarchy and Titles.

This statement is confusion in of itself. Are you saying only Native Americans had a monarchy and titles? Ensign, Lt., Lt. Commander, Commander, Captain, and Rear Admiral are used as titles because certain players wish to be recognized by a certain rank and not the current rank their level deems them to be.

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No I am simply being politcally correct. It was decide in America that they could no longer call them Red Indians descendants of the original tribes had to be refered to as Native Americans. Of course they were to stupid to release that that made the rest of them Non-Native Americans.
You blow your own argunent away, they want to be addressed by a different rank, ie not by a title. A rank is not a title a title is not a rank.

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Isn't one getting a bit carried away with the whole title/rank thing?

Surely blowing stuff up while going 'pew pew' is sufficient?:eek:

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In the programming language, different variables are expressed with different words.
Ambassador can be a rank, but it is more often a title instead.
It can be both.

If you want the title's to be based off of battle exploits, you should ask for that.
Not everyone has been in the military, a culture with titles or europe, so the concept is unfamiliar.

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As far as military ranks being used as titles are concerned, it is perfectly acceptable for ranks to be used as titles in most armed forces IF you use the rank you are as your title. There would be no 'Admiral Captain Soandso' in the real world because it would have to be one or the other.

In the context of STO however, we find ourselves in a different situation. Players are only refered to Lieutenant, Captain or Admiral etc because that is the basis of the level system that Cryptic coded as a gameplay mechanic. That mechanic may not fit how the player wishes to have their character known as.
So in this case, where the characters wish to roleplay as a Captain, having despite already gained admiral as far as leveling is concerned, the game mechanic rank should be ignored in favour of the player set one, as far as RP is concerned. There would be no 'Admiral Captain so and so' because the player is outwardly showing himself to be 'Captain' or 'Admiral' not both.

As far as Ambassador is concerned, Ambassador is a true title not a rank, as theoretically, anyone of any position could be appointed as an ambassador. Much as the commanding officer of a ship or in this case starship is refered to as it's 'Captain' regardless of rank actually held. But, having a title such as Ambassador would mean the person would stop using their rank as the 'title' so to speak. There is no case of 'Ambassador Captain' because it just becomes 'Ambassador'.

EDIT: In conclusion, as far as I can tell, Cryptic's system is perfectly accurate in regards to the array of titles and ranks they have available.

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Miltary and Diplomatic Ranks are not and never have been titles.

Actually, that is incorrect.

The old US Navy rank of Commodore is now a title for senior Captains, not a rank.

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Earning your right to be a certain rank is part of the natural progression of the game and life for that matter. Star Fleet is a Military organization. Just because you want to name yourself Captain Crab doesn't mean someone is going to give you a Galaxy Class Star Ship....Give yourself a name Like Sponge Bob and later on when you've worked really hard you can be Admiral Sponge Bob.

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Actually, that is incorrect.

The old US Navy rank of Commodore is now a title for senior Captains, not a rank.

But not at the same time. Commodore became Rear- Admiral at which time it was no longer a rank.

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Actually thats what people who want to be addressed as Captain should have done. This is not about what you are called or not but the idiocy of having titles which are in fact ranks and are the same as in game ranks. It makes no sense at all

I see what you've done here.. and this is YOUR mistake, not Cryptic's.

Full Name: Jonathan Zachary Smith
Short Name: Captain

You chose this, because you wanted everyone to refer to you "as Captain". The problem is, the game expects a name there.. like "Kirk", "Riker" or "Picard" or in the above example,.. "Smith". The game uses the following syntax in most dialogs.

"Greetings " + <player rank> + <player shortname> + ", we need your help...."

The expected result, if your "Short Name" was "Smith" would be this..

"Greetings Ensign Smith, we need your help..."

Because you made the mistake of putting "Captain" where "Smith" should be.. now your mission dialogs are coming up..

"Greetings Ensign Captain, we need your help..."

The simple fact is, this is YOUR glaring mistake.. not Cryptic's. And to fix it.. you're going to need to purchase a rename token, or delete the character and start over.

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The Correct way to Address a Military Officer with a Title.


UK Armed Forces Head: British Military Successful in Iraq
Posted by Paul Fiddian on 27/07/2007 - 10:51:57

The most prominent figure within UK armed forces, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, yesterday confirmed the British Military’s mission goals in the south of Iraq had been achieved with success. Detailing this further

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The Correct way to Address a Military Officer with a Title.


UK Armed Forces Head: British Military Successful in Iraq
Posted by Paul Fiddian on 27/07/2007 - 10:51:57

The most prominent figure within UK armed forces, Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup, yesterday confirmed the British Military’s mission goals in the south of Iraq had been achieved with success. Detailing this further

Sir Jock Stirrup?

Did the 'pew pew' not work for you? Did you not say it right? It's got to be high pitched and sound like a laser! You've got to REALLY believe you're shooting at space ships or people.

Only then will people think you're a proper Captain..so, are you 'Pew Pewing' enough?

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Yes that is his Name and the correct way for a junior officer to address him.

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Yes that is his Name and the correct way for a junior officer to address him.

Please, enlighten me. What exactly are you arguing? The fact that someone can display a different rank to what they are ingame? Because I've already dealt with that as being a game mechanic vs RP issue, in which case the game mechanic should be ignored. It's not Cryptic's fault that players want to play in the manner in which they do.

If the dispute is over something else, I'm afraid I've got no idea what it may be as your argument is rather hard to follow.

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Please, enlighten me. What exactly are you arguing? The fact that someone can display a different rank to what they are ingame? Because I've already dealt with that as being a game mechanic vs RP issue, in which case the game mechanic should be ignored. It's not Cryptic's fault that players want to play in the manner in which they do.

If the dispute is over something else, I'm afraid I've got no idea what it may be as your argument is rather hard to follow.

"Admiral Kirk".. "Captain Kirk"

A character named James T. Kirk, ranked at "Admiral" should be addressed by all NPCs as "Admiral Kirk". Not.. NOT as "Admiral"

You placed "Captain" where the game wanted you to place "Kirk"..

So now you're being addressed as "Admiral Captain". When you started the game you were being called "Ensign Captain" and then "Lieutenant Captain" etc etc..

Your mistake. Buy a rename token and change you "Captain" name to your character's surname.

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"Admiral Kirk".. "Captain Kirk"

A character named James T. Kirk, ranked at "Admiral" should be addressed by all NPCs as "Admiral Kirk". Not.. NOT as "Admiral"

You placed "Captain" where the game wanted you to place "Kirk"..

So now you're being addressed as "Admiral Captain". When you started the game you were being called "Ensign Captain" and then "Lieutenant Captain" etc etc..

Your mistake. Buy a rename token and change you "Captain" name to your character's surname.

Your argument perhaps, but not his. Either way, I'm not sure that's actually what the issue is about.
EDIT: In short communications it is acceptable to refer to someone by their rank alone, the same for certain titles, but not others. So it SHOULD be acceptable for someone called Admiral Kirk to be addressed as Admiral. As for if someone put Captain in as their short name or not, doesn't really change things.

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Most people wouldn't be familiar with where this thread started; it was in a thread started by someone who wanted Cryptic to clean up the way the NPCs address the player (eg using their first name in formal situations, rank instead of title etc). Then Kevscar came along and hijacked it for a good dozen pages arguing about how rank (aka your level's name) and title (aka what displays over your name) in the game are wrong and providing strange examples that didn't really make sense. It seems this thread is a sequel...

But it's stupid to have the ranks and titles the same do you want to be addressed as Admiral Captain. or Would you rather be addressed as Admiral Defender of Starbase 24. and that is the same whatever rank you are.
I have no problem with it being optional the problem is the titles are not logical. It's looks like Cryptic were just to lazy to do a little bit of Creative thinking.

Since you're obsessed with going on about the importance of formalities like titles and ranks and the monarchy, could you please stop butchering the Queen's English and use proper punctuation, not capitalising random words etc? It's really painful to read, and people will ignore your points as a result.

I agree Cryptic have screwed up rank and titles, but going on about it isn't going to fix it. Especially if you confuse everybody else by assuming they know what you're talking about and not clarifying your position.

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PODsix
please read thinks carefully nowhere have I said that I had my short name as captain or even wanted to. I have said that if people were so desperate to be called captain rather than Admiral then they should have Captain as there short name.
What I am saying is what Cryptic has put as Titles Admiral Captain Ambassador etc are not Titles but Ranks and this need to be changed.
As people from countries that have never had a Monarchy don't seem to understand how people with both a Rank and Title are addressed correctly I have included how it should be done.

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mrwafu
Since being butched by the NHS one of the problems with my condition is trouble with concentrating and difficulty with words and imprecise control of right hand so sorry you will just have to put up with it.

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Basically, Kevscar doesn't want titles to be used to apply a rank's name above a character's head on the insistence that ranks are not titles; regardless of the reasons why other players would like to have them applied or why they actually think it's a good idea to have them as titles. He's basically plowed heedlessly through any sensible reasoned counter he was given with the insistence that he is right and cannot be wrong, regardless of how many times the truth of the matter is put in front of his face.

This issue actually stems from another thread (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2395435#post2395435), where I was making an appeal to have the title chosen possibly be used to replace the level-related rank in dialogues (for those people sick of being called Rear Admiral instead of, say, Commander or Captain). He went all ballistic on it for the same issue, and I asked him to make his own appeal if he felt so badly about it, instead of poisoning my thread with his nonsense. So, here we are.

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I see what you've done here.. and this is YOUR mistake, not Cryptic's.
Full Name: Jonathan Zachary Smith
Short Name: Captain
You chose this, because you wanted everyone to refer to you "as Captain". The problem is, the game expects a name there.. like "Kirk", "Riker" or "Picard" or in the above example,.. "Smith". The game uses the following syntax in most dialogs.
"Greetings " + <player rank> + <player shortname> + ", we need your help...."
The expected result, if your "Short Name" was "Smith" would be this..
"Greetings Ensign Smith, we need your help..."
Because you made the mistake of putting "Captain" where "Smith" should be.. now your mission dialogs are coming up..
"Greetings Ensign Captain, we need your help..."
The simple fact is, this is YOUR glaring mistake.. not Cryptic's. And to fix it.. you're going to need to purchase a rename token, or delete the character and start over.
When I made my first character, I had no idea what that "Bones, etc." edit box was for.
I kept trying to leave it empty, because I didn't want my character to have a "cowboy" nickname.
It is not players' mistake, it is just confusing, unclear User Interface design.

EDIT: Good explanation though!
I wish Cryptic put something like your post up on that Character Creator Window as a tooltip.
We would not have threads like these then.
.
.

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Zoberraz

As said if you can show where Admiral Kirk said to his crew "I'd rather be called Captain than Admiral" then you have a fair argument. Otherwise there is nothing to support you request.

No matter what you may say the simple fact proven above is that someone with a Rank and Title Is alway addreesed by both. Aqquiatences of long standing and equal position may be told to address by shortened version but never subordinate military officers

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Zoberraz

As said if you can show where Admiral Kirk said to his crew "I'd rather be called Captain than Admiral" then you have a fair argument. Otherwise there is nothing to support you request.

No matter what you may say the simple fact proven above is that someone with a Rank and Title Is alway addreesed by both. Aqquiatences of long standing and equal position may be told to address by shortened version but never subordinate military officers

I have to say, I have read all of this thread, and I'm confused what you want. It seems a lot of other responding here are as well. If you can't describe it in a way we understand its unlikely to be changed.

My best guess based on the bit above is that even after we achieve the rank of Admiral that in game dialogs refer to us as Captain?

If your problem is that players can display rank over their characters head, and choose a rank less then their real rank, well, role play reasons trump anything else.

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The problem is some people want the ingame dialogue to use there title instead of their rank.
1 Cryptiic screwed up by using Military and Diploamatic Ranks as Titles which they have never been.
2 Military Protocol dictates that an officer with a title is addressed first by Rank then by Title and never by Title alone.

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Righty, let me get this clear.

Title: Captain, Ambassador, Emperor of the Universe, etc. Can be changed to suit player tastes. Dictates how the the player is referred to in-game. Allows for RA5 characters to still be called Captain if the player wishes.

Rank: Ensign, Captain, Rear Admiral, etc. In-game designations for levelling milestones. Cannot be changed, except when levelling and only then to the next highest rank.

Now, it appears the OP has misunderstood the games use of the word 'title'. He seems to believe it to be of an official nature and thus wishes to have the 'ranks' removed from the title options, effectively preventing players from having their character adressed as they see fit. However, the word 'title' in context of the game is merely intented to be a multi-purpose prefix to the players short name. This is essentially an argument over semantics.

The military protocol issue is moot as we're dealing with a fictional enitity with regards to Starfleet. Such protocols may well be different, but there is no clear canon resolution.

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This statement is confusion in of itself. Are you saying only Native Americans had a monarchy and titles? Ensign, Lt., Lt. Commander, Commander, Captain, and Rear Admiral are used as titles because certain players wish to be recognized by a certain rank and not the current rank their level deems them to be.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=5&a=6) ~ Phoxe

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A title is a prefix or suffix added to someone's name to signify either veneration, an official position or a professional or academic qualification. In some languages, titles may even be inserted between a first and last name (for example, Graf in German, Cardinal in Catholic usage or clerical titles such as Archbishop or Ter in the Armenian Apostolic Church). Some titles are hereditary.

Now what's a rank? What are Special Envoy, Ambassador, Captain and Admiral? They are official positions. And they are added as a prefix to the name. => Title!

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=5&a=6) ~ Phoxe

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All I can say is

3677

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Oh my god. You really don't have anything else to complain about?



Now what's a rank? What are Special Envoy, Ambassador, Captain and Admiral? They are official positions. And they are added as a prefix to the name. => Title!

If you were silly enough to put "Captain" in the box for your short name that is your problem. If you didn't realise your mistake the first time you were called "Ensign Captain" or "Lieutenant Captain" after the Tutorial (that should have been around the same time I realised that it's a bad idea to fit the Klingon "son of X" into the first name, second name family name structure) that's hilarious. Stop blaming Cryptic for that.

What I stated was that if these people wanted to be addressed as Captain rather than there correct rank of Admiral then they should do that, but they would end up being called both.
They are Miltary and Diplomatic Ranks not titles not positions.. Titles are such things as Knighthoods and Dukedoms.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines (http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=5&a=6) ~ Phoxe

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You obviously do not have the ability to read or comprehend. I have stated on a number of occassions that I did not do that. What I stated was that if these people wanted to be addressed as Captain rather than there correct rank of Admiral then they should do that, but they would end up being called both.
They are Miltary and Diplomatic Ranks not titles not positions.. Titles are such things as Knighthoods and Dukedoms.

Sorry, but reading what you write in too much detail isn't healthy.

Well, look at the list of titles that are currently in use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title#Currently_in_use

Admiral (from which come Grand Admiral, Lord High Admiral, Rear Admiral, and Vice Admiral)
Ambassador
Brigadier
Captain (from which comes Group Captain)

Do I have to go on? Titles are not necessarily connected to nobility, the word has just multiple uses. "He got a title from the queen." means a title as you understand it, however it's not the only meaning.

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I like being able to choose what rank people see me as, it is handy when I RP. I don't want to be known as an admiral I want to be a Captain. there are those who want to be known as Commanders or Lt Commanders with out having to stop leveling. I see no problem with the way things are.

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Sorry, but reading what you write in too much detail isn't healthy.

Well, look at the list of titles that are currently in use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title#Currently_in_use

Admiral (from which come Grand Admiral, Lord High Admiral, Rear Admiral, and Vice Admiral)
Ambassador
Brigadier
Captain (from which comes Group Captain)

Do I have to go on? Titles are not necessarily connected to nobility, the word has just multiple uses. "He got a title from the queen." means a title as you understand it, however it's not the only meaning.

Trouble with your link is this bit.



Wikipedia is an online open-content collaborative encyclopedia, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups working to develop a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information

In other words I can go in and correct those mistakes you quote.

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Trouble with your link is this bit.



Wikipedia is an online open-content collaborative encyclopedia, that is, a voluntary association of individuals and groups working to develop a common resource of human knowledge. The structure of the project allows anyone with an Internet connection to alter its content. Please be advised that nothing found here has necessarily been reviewed by people with the expertise required to provide you with complete, accurate or reliable information

In other words I can go in and correct those mistakes you quote.

Then you would get banned for vandalising the article because your opinion of what "title" should mean is not the only truth.

Another source: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/title

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....Defender of Uranus. and such given to signify bravery above and beyond the call of duty. Something actually worthy of recieveing. Something you would be proud to have.

Sign me up for the Defender of Uranus honorific lol

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Because as has been stated Captain is not a title neither is Admiral, Ensign or Ambassador they are ranks.

This is more than an oversimplification, but in fact it is flat out untrue - they are both.

If you are a Lieutenant in command of a starship, you are called Captain by the crew, not Lieutenant. This makes "Captain" a title, regardless of the fact that it is also a rank. That is beyond the point, though.

The point is, that that field is called "Title" simply because it's shorter and easier than "That word or phrase you want to appear over your head."

Ranks, real "Titles," and plenty of goofy things can potentially show up there. Is "Crash Test Tribble" really an apt rank or title?

So what you're REALLY asking for, if I can understand it properly, is for us to add in titles based on accomplishments, yes? You want to be rewarded for completing the crystalline entity fleet action with the new title of "Survivor of the Crystalline Atrocity" and the like.

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The problem is some people want the ingame dialogue to use there title instead of their rank.

Of course, the in-game dialogue doesn't do this, therefore there is no problem.

In-game, above-the-head "titles" are just for fun, and have no impact on how NPCs address your character. Nor have I ever been referred to as "Career Officer" by any other players to date.

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Ugh, ok after reading through this thread, it's really nothing but a flamewar. I'm closin' it down.