A more "civil" discussion on the RAF program and its folly

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Well, since the other thread apparently crashed and burned after I went to bed (note... NOT discussing moderation in the slightest), I thought it would be beneficial to have less of a discussion based thread and more of a "agree"/"disagree" thread to more succintly help Cryptic understand community sentiment.

Dear Cryptic,

The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

Why would you want us to invite people to the game as it is now? With the current repetitiveness of the game, lack of proper crafting, an exploration system that is slightly embarrassing, and an entire faction that is hardly fleshed out (klingons), with there still being bugs in the game, and an extremely linear gameplay due to lack of content... why would you want people to see this?

I think it is a bad idea. It may help with short term goals with immediately boosting subscriptions, but those people might ultimately cancel their subs after reaching level cap like so many others have done. And these people are likely to ever give STO a second chance. You are hurting this games long term sustainability by trying to achieve short term goals. If anything, you should have waited till season 3, or season 2 at the very least when a flood of more things will supposedly be added.

The Galaxy X was a poor choice as a reward for the RAF reward system
Under the assumption that you do read the forums, you should know that the Galaxy X from "All Good Things" was something that people have wanted and asked for to be in the game. Another member sums this up more succintly:

Originally Posted by Lt.Expendable
Frankly, shilling the Galaxy X like this is basically a confession on Cryptic's part that STO can't stand on it's own merits.
Here's a ship design that a lot of people have said they wanted. So what do they do? Put it on the c-store? Make it a vet reward? Make it an upgrade for in-game merit? No! They dangle it in front of us like a carrot from a stick and tell us to not only convince 5 people to try the game, but to badger them into making at least a one-month sub.

"If you were REALLY my friend you'd put down the money so I can get a Galaxy X!"

Brilliant.

Voice your opinion whether you agree or disagree and try to be mature and respectful of one another (Including Cryptic).

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i agree. I hope they make another way of getting it. I think they have though.

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I object to it simply because this is basically nothing more than a ~$200 cash grab designed to artificially inflate the subscriber numbers without actually increasing the number of players.

The majority of the people who get these rewards will be purchasing the accounts themselves. This is how this exact same scheme has worked on SOE games (not surprising, since Cryptic's CEO used to be in charge of this sort of thing at SOE).

The best way to market this game is to fix the glaring lack of content problem. We lack almost completely anything meaningful for a RA5 character to do. Fix this problem FIRST before trying to bring in more players, else, why waste the effort, we won't retain any of them!

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Well, since the other thread apparently crashed and burned after I went to bed (note... NOT discussing moderation in the slightest), I thought it would be beneficial to have less of a discussion based thread and more of a "agree"/"disagree" thread to more succintly help Cryptic understand community sentiment.

Dear Cryptic,

The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

Why would you want us to invite people to the game as it is now? With the current repetitiveness of the game, lack of proper crafting, an exploration system that is slightly embarrassing, and an entire faction that is hardly fleshed out (klingons), with there still being bugs in the game, and an extremely linear gameplay due to lack of content... why would you want people to see this?

I think it is a bad idea. It may help with short term goals with immediately boosting subscriptions, but those people might ultimately cancel their subs after reaching level cap like so many others have done. And these people are likely to ever give STO a second chance. You are hurting this games long term sustainability by trying to achieve short term goals.

The Galaxy X was a poor choice as a reward for the RAF reward system
Under the assumption that you do read the forums, you should know that the Galaxy X from "All Good Things" was something that people have wanted and asked for to be in the game. Another member sums this up more succintly:



Voice your opinion whether you agree or disagree and try to be mature and respectful of one another (Including Cryptic).

more money to pay more employees to get more dev, to get more people working on content, to get a more finished well rounded game makes panda want to refer friends >_>

personally i think having the galaxy x for refering 5 friends is a good thing, it inspires people to not only stay with the game and see how it develops into something they will enjoy (like wow, coh, ***, ffxi and just about every other mmo out there ever did) but also bringing friends into the game will give you something to do with them aswell so doing repeatative things don't seem so repeatative....

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I normally don't like your completely negative tone and non-constructive criticism, but I would like to add that I would be very surprised if I ever saw anyone fly one in game.

I love the idea of encouraging people to show this game to their friends, but getting 5 people? Yikes! I might convince 2 or 3 if I really try, but I'm scared they would just quit in a month anyway....

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more money to pay more employees to get more dev, to get more people working on content, to get a more finished well rounded game makes panda want to refer friends >_>

You think the money's going back to STO, when there's a new Cryptic game (http://www.massively.com/2010/05/05/cryptic-to-announce-new-mmo-later-this-summer/) clamouring for attention?

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I think Cryptic is assuming those who haven't played the game yet are not the ones who will reach RA5 in two weeks. They'll be weekend warriors who don't mind taking their time. Cryptic would be releasing content faster than they could complete it.

As for Galaxy 5, I would love for it too to become a Vet reward as well. Recruit 5 people, get it now. Play for 250 days, get it then.

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The best way to market this game is to fix the glaring lack of content problem. We lack almost completely anything meaningful for a RA5 character to do.

Would something like what I have in this list (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=155475) be of interest to you as a RA?

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You think the money's going back to STO, when there's a new Cryptic game (http://www.massively.com/2010/05/05/cryptic-to-announce-new-mmo-later-this-summer/) clamouring for attention?

if you think that why are you paying for your sub? sincei t's not going towards sto either >_>
plus it's not announced yet, unconfirmed and just rumors.....

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Would something like what I have in this list (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=155475) be of interest to you as a RA?

Great list, but I feel people are so Stockholmed that we'd be happy if there were new game mechanics that didn't involve spending real money.

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Would something like what I have in this list (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=155475) be of interest to you as a RA?

Yes.

Nice job.

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Great list, but I feel people are so Stockholmed that we'd be happy if there were new game mechanics that didn't involve spending real money.

Where did I suggest spending real money?

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very true....hope cryptic listens to the players and let us get it other ways. sorry but with the way the game is right now,i would not want to tell my friends to join becouse it needs lots of work still.

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I think Cryptic is assuming those who haven't played the game yet are not the ones who will reach RA5 in two weeks. They'll be weekend warriors who don't mind taking their time. Cryptic would be releasing content faster than they could complete it.

As for Galaxy 5, I would love for it too to become a Vet reward as well. Recruit 5 people, get it now. Play for 250 days, get it then.


LIKE ME!!! ^_^ except i'm more of an "after-work" warrior =/ i'm still only a just hitting captian when i get off work today though o.o; and i've been playing for over a month now

personally i'd totally refer my friends to the game i like the game for how it plays and even if there is a lack of content we can all just sit around the bridge giggling about stuff while we wait for the next pvp match to start
friends aren't about getting to RA as quickly as possible, it's about just having fun and not worrying about how fast you get to RA and in most cases it's actually anti-lvling, which would you rather do, get to RA, or hang out with your best friend on the bridge and talk about that girl who works at the front desk, or that awesome dress at the clothing store, or w/e you do with your friend

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I agree. It was a bad idea to make any of these rewards specific to recruiting. Cryptic agreed with that 5 years ago when they did the same thing with the Valentine wreath and sandals costume pieces. And they swore they would never make such a mistake again. And what do they do? Make the same mistake again. Maybe it's because they have new idjots in charge of the marketing department now and none of them knew about or got the message from the backlash on the CoH boards way back when. You would think Jack might speak up though.

I'm not recruiting anyone! I'll keep playing but I'm fragging done sticking up for Cryptic. I am beginning to see what the "haters" saw three months ago. This isn't the same company I had faith in for the last six years. They've changed... and not for the batter.

You're losing your fans Cryptic. Fix it quickly.

:(

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The majority of the people who get these rewards will be purchasing the accounts themselves.

Where is your proof of this? Please link to actual data that can show this is what will happen with STO.

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I agree. It was a bad idea to make any of these rewards specific to recruiting. Cryptic agreed with that 5 years ago when they did the same thing with the Valentine wreath and sandals costume pieces. And they swore they would never make such a mistake again. And what do they do? Make the same mistake again. Maybe it's because they have new idjots in charge of the marketing department now and none of them knew about or got the message from the backlash on the CoH boards way back when. You would think Jack might speak up though.

I'm not recruiting anyone! I'll keep playing but I'm fragging done sticking up for Cryptic. I am beginning to see what the "haters" saw three months ago. This isn't the same company I had faith in for the last six years. They've changed... and not for the batter.

You're losing your fans Cryptic. Fix it quickly.

:(
i has sandals and i never recruited a friend, what are you talking about! DX
also if cryptic is losing fans why are you still able to complain about the game >_> do i smell hypocracy at work here? complain about somethng but refuse to do anything about out yourself ( like say cancelling your sub until the game is more to your liking?) (yes i notice you're a lifer, my example still stands both for none-lifers aswell as lifers, you have/had 30 days to request a refund for your life, and you also had a free 30 days to play the game before having to purchase a life/sub you could have taken advantage of both of those)

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if you think that why are you paying for your sub? sincei t's not going towards sto either >_>
plus it's not announced yet, unconfirmed and just rumors.....

Life Sentence. I just skipped the blue name and went straight to the ugly Borg avatar.

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You think the money's going back to STO, when there's a new Cryptic game (http://www.massively.com/2010/05/05/cryptic-to-announce-new-mmo-later-this-summer/) clamouring for attention?

yea and that 3rd game from what ive hurd was going to be D and D FR....but wizard pulled it and now its going to be magic the gathering...

plus how they have treated STO and CO i would never buy another game from them...they should stop the work on the 3rd and place all them devs and programers on STO and build it up.....

but i could be wrong and time will tell :)

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Under the assumption that you do read the forums, you should know that the Galaxy X from "All Good Things" was something that people have wanted and asked for to be in the game.

And now it will be and there are certain requirements for you to get it. Either do the work to get it or don't.

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Voice your opinion whether you agree or disagree and try to be mature and respectful of one another (Including Cryptic).

I said this in another thread earlier but it applies here........

I already did invite 10 of my friends that I have been gaming with since MW2 Netmech days (like 1995ish) which forms the gaming crew I play online with in various games and forms. I brought them in when the game launched in early Feb. Now there are only 4 of us left, I and another have LT subs, one other is active, and the last one has been scarce since they FUBAR'd the Que system as he was heavily into gound PvP. The rest have canceled their subs for various valid reasons. So after bringing in 10 players that have mostly bailed out because of rather large game issues, Cryptic wants me to get 5 more? Sorry but that boat has sailed (and hit a 'berg). I brought up this promotion last night in our ArmA2 match on vent and was actually laughed at by the folks that already gave STO a shot.

And even IF I somehow talked them into taking another chance on STO, they wouldnt count as the same type of deal offered in CO demonstrated. So no, I have very little faith in Cryptic's Marketing arm not coming up with some crappy scheme to make us jump thru hoops for something they could just add to the C-store or make it earned in-game. I have already shucked out $300 for a LT Sub (got mine 2 days after the price jumped and no Borg either), paid for a CE and a DDE (before they cut the price in half), and regularly buy stuff thru the Cstore (including C points).....And marketing comes up with this plan?

Exactly how did I not do my part to promote this game?

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Well, since the other thread apparently crashed and burned after I went to bed (note... NOT discussing moderation in the slightest), I thought it would be beneficial to have less of a discussion based thread and more of a "agree"/"disagree" thread to more succintly help Cryptic understand community sentiment.

Indeed, although I'm a little surprised you restarted the thread.

Dear Cryptic,

The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

Why would you want us to invite people to the game as it is now? With the current repetitiveness of the game, lack of proper crafting, an exploration system that is slightly embarrassing, and an entire faction that is hardly fleshed out (klingons), with there still being bugs in the game, and an extremely linear gameplay due to lack of content... why would you want people to see this?

I think it is a bad idea. It may help with short term goals with immediately boosting subscriptions, but those people might ultimately cancel their subs after reaching level cap like so many others have done. And these people are likely to ever give STO a second chance. You are hurting this games long term sustainability by trying to achieve short term goals.

Well as I said before in the other post, the program isn't up and running, its only been announced (the page on the website isn't up and running yet). Given that Klingon Episodic content is coming in less than two months, along with another STF mission, to go with a mountain of planned improvements to the game. When do you believe would be a good time to begin a program?

The Galaxy X was a poor choice as a reward for the RAF reward system
Under the assumption that you do read the forums, you should know that the Galaxy X from "All Good Things" was something that people have wanted and asked for to be in the game. Another member sums this up more succintly:

Voice your opinion whether you agree or disagree and try to be mature and respectful of one another (Including Cryptic).

I don't think you can be much more condescending there Jacob and still be civil :p. I understand that you would like to be flying it with a minimal of effort or expenditure, however it is the way it is, and the way it is is that it's being offered as a reward for players who bust their @$$es trying to support the game.

Could it have been offered through the C-Store? Sure, but you I both know that there would have been people who complained about it, and accusing Cryptic of trying to make a buck off a popular item as people have accused them in the past. Could they have made it available through an in game method? Sure if you wanted to wait a few months for the content patch, then listen to people complain that something was too hard to get (or something along those lines). But no matter how they get it, there will be somebody complaining that it's not a perfect replica of the ship seen in the episode, or that the cannon cannot blow holes in a Negh'var.

What's the morale of everything I just typed out? Everybody complains about something, and that's especially true since this is Star Trek and we're the biggest sticklers for detail in the world compared to other fans. No matter what Cryptic does they are not going to be able to make everybody happy.

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i feel a thread closing comming on. i think i beat the buzzer on this one

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Age of conan, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play
DnD Online, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play
LOTR, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play
Champions Online, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play
****, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play
STO, they just want money, I wish they would listen to their customers, I'm going to play...............


Don't expect anything different for the next 10 MMO's

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Where did I suggest spending real money?

A misunderstanding! :) Those are all great ideas, and would enhance the game remarkably.

It's just that the majority of recent new game mechanics (Deployable Phaser Turret, EMH Science Station, Radiometric Converter, Galaxyamato cannon ) are only available to folk who pay extra post-launch. And folk with the regular game just get the same old same old with higher numbers.

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agreed and the thing is we will pay, and real in the age of 5buck cups of coffe who cares it like the salesmen for the million buck car if you have to ask the price son you cant afford it. if we the game player has the money and are willing to pay why would anyone care but us. and unlike many games STO dose not sell item that give you any real advantage ingame so why dose it bother people so much?

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i has sandals and i never recruited a friend, what are you talking about! DX

During the first CoH Valentine's Day Event (2005) you could only get the Wreath and Sandals (account wide) if you recruited another player and they subscribed. Otherwise you were out of luck. The year after they added the Wreath and Sandals as a reward for doing the Valentine's Day missions, where they have been achievable ever since on a character by character basis.

There was a huge backlash on the forums and many players just bought second accounts in order to get the goodies. Cryptic swore they would never do in game rewards in such a way again. And what are they doing now? Ship Variants, pets, BOffs as rewards for recruiting? Yeah, same thing but this time you have recruit or buy even more accounts to get them. Yay!

:(

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agreed and the thing is we will pay, and real in the age of 5buck cups of coffe who cares it like the salesmen for the million buck car if you have to ask the price son you cant afford it. if we the game player has the money and are willing to pay why would anyone care but us. and unlike many games STO dose not sell item that give you any real advantage ingame so why dose it bother people so much?

people are hypocritical, they want to feel like thier dollar is worth something and they would rather have crap results now then great results later, since this isn't happening (i.e. the game is still being updated and developed as opose to being completely developed appon launch) they are complaining, but that's all they are doing, quick to point the finger but refusing to take up the pitch fork and do something about it, relying on others to do the heavy lifting for them.

that and people are selfish and become jealous easily, i want something he has because he has it.
aswell as being nacassistic, or, just wanting the galaxy for the sake of having it (and so they can brag to people about having it )

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what a joke.first off your mad there getting money for the game,well with out it they couldnt run said game,servers are free know.game has been out for what 3 months now.of course it there adding things to it.but hell there adding content faster than any other mmo currently.lets not forget there updates ,expansions are free.....and finaly you come over here to rip on sto come from eve online now thata a joke and a half what the game been out for years and years now and that game is still incoplete.ccp been promising customers for years the ableity to get out of the ship and they still havnt doone it instead they turn to dust.........eve is most boringest underhanding scam i ever seen.to train up ya do nohting but select skill then log out ccp,runs biggest scam ever since there skill training is set ip to just milk ya from ya money,on to eves other problem no rules what so ever you got dev running some the major allainces over there in the massive naps feast .its probally why there down to 5k in players during peak time.every one is leaving it finaly. so in short go back to eve fails online

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TBH, I have tried recruting others. They will not join though for may reasons including;

1, Money best spent elsewhere in these difficult times

2, (See 1) Have to pick best looking game if any

3, Massive negativity about STO, Cryptic and Atari

4, Perception of STO being a dying (not living and evolving) game

5, Perception of non players that the RAF policy is a money grabbing activity making Cryptic / Atari look desperate

Out of the four people I have tried to recruit since launch, only one has had enough faith in the game to use a buddy key - his key failed so he did not get to play - that is he entered key and all seemed fine but he could not log in.

As much as I sing the praises of the game or defend Cryptic*, I know that it is hard work to try and convince others that signing up is worth it.

I may eventually get that one guy I gave buddy key to in game. As for getting five new players to subscribe, blood and stone comes to mind.

A simple answer to both questions;

The RAF policy looks a lot like a money grab - especially when the ship in question has been offered as an incentive and the whole thing looks like a greedy marketing 'dream' rather than a guenuine and realistic promo.

* I do sing the praises of STO offline but have made comments on the forums that may seem negative at times. Thing is, I like STO and want it to succeed. I sometimes think that the makers are less concerned about the success of the game (from a playerbase point of view) though and more about money.Maybe that is unfair, but this RAF policy does nothing to make me and my non player friends think other ways.

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During the first CoH Valentine's Day Event (2005) you could only get the Wreath and Sandals (account wide) if you recruited another player and they subscribed. Otherwise you were out of luck. The year after they added the Wreath and Sandals as a reward for doing the Valentine's Day missions, where they have been achievable ever since on a character by character basis.

There was a huge backlash on the forums and many players just bought second accounts in order to get the goodies. Cryptic swore they would never do in game rewards in such a way again. And what are they doing now? Ship Variants, pets, BOffs as rewards for recruiting? Yeah, same thing but this time you have recruit or buy even more accounts to get them. Yay!

:(

i know =/ it was a retorichal question pointing out that the event was fixed in later years, and that has an extreme player bases and has survived such things as WoW (which took away some players only to have them come back) and even more close to home, champions online, which is just a better graphic version of coh with crappyer content.... the real cohers spotted the difference, didn't much like it and came back.

cryptic is a crappy marketing and they have admitted that, which honestly,i think is complete B.S. they are excellent marketers, letting thier actions speak louder they thier worlds and letting the product speak for it's self ( i know it doesn't seem like that with sto and it's downfalls but its like a marriage, gets better as time passes :P) and they rely more on "word of mouth" as opose to fancy commercials and tv adds, it's also a good way to see how well the game is doing, if more people keep joining, then they are doing something good, if people keep leaving, stop playing, or cancelling subscriptions (like i keep telling people that are disatisfied with the game, to do) they'll clue in and then look at the forums, polls, and player feed back to find out why people are leaving or not playing, and correct the problem...
as it stands, people keep playing even though they are complaining and more people keep subscribing so the problem isn't nearly as big as you would think... the forums are just a tiny foot note of player feed back at the corperate level that atari looks at, and as such is probably the slowest and hardest way to get any type of real changes made..
like ****ing in the ocean to try and change the water level....

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/agree to the OP!

Don't make canon ships from Star Trek exclusive items!

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I think they need an in-game way to get all special items. I really hate it when games add in "elite" stuff to reward only certain people. Sure give those people easy access to them, but make them available to all.

I honestly can't see the reason behind adding content that only some people can get. It's like being in a large family where only one child gets the new toys. Fosters long term resentment.

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When WoW did the referal program for the Zebra mount, almosy everyone I knew that had one bought the secound account and referred themselves to get it. The same with Earth and Beyond when they offered skill points as rewards for refering people, players just bought accounts for the referrals, infact gold sellers started selling the referrels ingame for ingame credits.

All in all, I have to aggree with you Jacobflowers, you raise some pretty valid points.

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If they need money that badly, like others have said, add it to the C-Store.

I have said before, my friends had played, now they have quit

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The Galaxy 5 should not be a part of the RAF

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I disagree with the OP Cryptic should always try to bring in in players. It's good sign they are trying to bring in new players. It means they are committed to improving the game and want more to play it. They should never stop trying to bring in more players.

Just because you don't like the game doesn't mean all players here don't like it. Just because there is no crafting. You believe game is unfinished is no reason for them not to try and increase the player base. A lot of people see crafting as a task to improve their character and not real game play. They don't like it but do it for the reward. Improving their character.

A lot of peoples expectations for STO were to great. I had the expectations I probably wouldn't like it. I was surprised when I did. A lot of the complainers are really unrealistic in their demands for STO. It's not enough like EVE. Star Fleet is killing people in a war. I don't like Fleet actions, STF's, PVP or the ground game there is nothing to do. This type of stuff.

In no way should Cryptic ever not try to bring in new players. Because a few people bought lifetime accounts to a game they don't like. Or some of their players don't like the game.

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I just cancelled my account but pvping in a tier 5 galaxy would make me change my mind as captain was my favourite rank.

I am married with kids and I dont know 5 people willing to play this game, yet I want that ship.

If this item available by 25th May I will resub but once I leave a game I dont go back.


WOW 1yr FFXI 4months SWG 1&1/2yrs LOTRO 4months WAR 6months


STO 2months

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i remember a similar thread as this that spark lots of people to put demands in their signatures and sparked lots of ...well i can't really say debate, it boiled down to just alot of whining.... and sparked lots and lots of threads concerning the issue, and nothing was ever done...well...thats a lie
eventually something was done, 2 months later when update 2.0 was released and the level cap was raised from ra5 to ra 10 but techinicly that didn't raise/remove the skill cap, just increase the levels ergo the skill points required to reach the levels....

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I just cancelled my account but pvping in a tier 5 galaxy would make me change my mind as captain was my favourite rank.

I am married with kids and I dont know 5 people willing to play this game, yet I want that ship.

If this item available by 25th May I will resub but once I leave a game I dont go back.


WOW 1yr FFXI 4months SWG 1&1/2yrs LOTRO 4months WAR 6months


STO 2months

if you cancelled your account how are you still able to post? you can't post if your account is susspended/cancelled...

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Let me start off by saying that I was one who thought they'd stay with this game for awhile. I even avoided the "doom and gloom" topics on the forums. I agree with OP. I apologize for having a part in having that one shot down (hugs to Jacob). The real issue for me (and ultimately the reason I quit) was that I wasn't getting what I paid for. I'm glad that there are people here who do feel that they are, but as for me (and for a lot of people who we are too quick to dismiss as naysayers) the biggest point of contention was and is that we're getting band-aids for something that needs surgery. I will gladly eat my words should the content expansion be game-wide. There have been many excellent posts by people far more eloquent than I on how to do that.

p.s. If you feel it necessary to say, "You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know MMO's," to me, so be it. I know what I've played and what kept my attention (and money), and have no purpose in measuring my e-manhood against yours.

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if you read by the 25th, thats when my account runs dry.

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if you read by the 25th, thats when my account runs dry.

oooohhhhh thats what you ment... fair enough...

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no problem

i am just looking for a glimmer, fluff, excitement, quests, purples.....

Something that would keep me hooked till Season 2.

And the AGT Galaxy or even a real Tier 5 galaxy would make my tactical engineer resub for a month to try it out.
I loved it the galaxy, i shed tears when I hit RA.

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Just popping in to point out I still agree and think it's part of a larger and more worrisome pattern.

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if you cancelled your account how are you still able to post? you can't post if your account is susspended/cancelled...

It took them 5 weeks to catch up to and remove my ability to post on the Champions Online Forums after I cancelled my account. (And I cancelled my account 3 days prior to it's billing date running out).

It's their forum system. It sometimes doesn't catch up to the account changes properly.

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[COLOR="yellow"]The Galaxy X was a poor choice as a reward for the RAF reward system
Under the assumption that you do read the forums, you should know that the Galaxy X from "All Good Things" was something that people have wanted and asked for to be in the game. Another member sums this up more succintly:


Whats the point in a reward no one wants? I think it is the nature of a RAF system to give something as a reward desired by many people. Lets be honest, if they designed some new never before seen ship, no one would actually care to participate in the system. So i say threads like this are a big acknowledgement of cryptics marketing idea of the RAF program.

And for the record, i would also love to fly a Galaxy X.

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I'm dubious on exactly how coveted the All Good Things Galaxy really is.

I think if the reward was the Excelsior ... the proverbial stuff would have hit the fan in a much much larger magnitude.

In fact, I think if ... Cryptic were to put a T5 Excelsior INTO the C-Store the same day the referral program gets put in ... this entire issue would get defused very very quickly.

New shinies. I know people like new shinies.

;)

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Whats the point in a reward no one wants? I think it is the nature of a RAF system to give something as a reward desired by many people. Lets be honest, if they designed some new never before seen ship, no one would actually care to participate in the system. So i say threads like this are a big acknowledgement of cryptics marketing idea of the RAF program.

And for the record, i would also love to fly a Galaxy X.

Why do people need a giant carrot to try and bring their friends into the game? Does Cryptic think that liking this game is so embarassing in its current state that such a bribe is needed? The people who would be most suited for this program have already tried, successfully or not. Anyone who wouldn't be recommending this game to their friends without the giant dangling carrot isn't exactly being encouraged to be honest about the game's rough spots that gave them misgivings in the first place.

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As I have stated before I have no issues with the referal program. As someone else said, most subscribers is more money and thus more that can be used to pay employees and satistfy investors. This means that it will indeed help STO to grow.

I think it is a bit early to start a referal program; content will be required to keep people, after all.

I do feel a bit sorry for Cryptic. No matter what they say there is a group screaming at them. I suspect that bad weather is their fault in someone's mind.

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Civil? You can't keep this civil. It's no more civil than my 2 year old falling on the floor crying because she isn't getting what she wants.

Same thing here. WAH WAH I want the ship how dare you make me have to recruit people to your game!

People cried in the same way about the stupid zebra in WoW too. If you can't spend the time or effort to get the awesome ship, you don't deserve it. I mean, they obviously don't want everyone and their mom flying it. So it's tied to a hard task.

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Why do people need a giant carrot to try and bring their friends into the game? Does Cryptic think that liking this game is so embarassing in its current state that such a bribe is needed? The people who would be most suited for this program have already tried, successfully or not. Anyone who wouldn't be recommending this game to their friends without the giant dangling carrot isn't exactly being encouraged to be honest about the game's rough spots that gave them misgivings in the first place.

Well i do not work in marketing and maybe someone who does could provide answers for your questions, but the motives behind a RAF system have nothing to do with the game itself, every MMO has this sort of thing. And not just MMOs, many products are marketed via referel system. For example in Germany it is very common that if you get a friend to subscripe to a magazine you get all sorts of stuff.

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They were offering perks with every copy of the game. To get people to buy them from different places or to buy more than one copy. So offering rewards to get people to get subscribers isn't a new thing. They have been using this tactic the whole time.

I have to say I want the hologram. I don't know anyone that I could talk into subscribing for a month to get it. I could buy another copy of the game. Plus a one month subscription. I wont though. I have no chance at getting this T5 ship and I don't care. I can't believe the tantrums people are throwing over this ship. OMG there is something in a video game I can't have. The thing is the ship doesn't say exclusively offered from the referral program.

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People cried in the same way about the stupid zebra in WoW too. If you can't spend the time or effort to get the awesome ship, you don't deserve it. I mean, they obviously don't want everyone and their mom flying it. So it's tied to a hard task.

Only reason I got annoyed about that offer in WoW was because its illegal to run referal programs like that here in Denmark (as it falls under pyramid scheme laws) so I couldn't get it.

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I disagree with the OP Cryptic should always try to bring in in players. It's good sign they are trying to bring in new players. It means they are committed to improving the game and want more to play it. They should never stop trying to bring in more players.


I never said that Cryptic should not "always try to bring in more players"... the point of the OP (which I suspect you did not read) was to say that the way they are going about it is unwise. Didn't you catch that part? And if you did... you failed to counter that point.

Why invite people to a game that is so unfinished? YOU may not think so, but compared to the gaming community at large... I would say there is a consensus. As someone else pointed out, there are some potentially neat things on the horizon for season 2 or season 3, why not wait then? As it is, its a game with repetitive shallow gameplay with 1.5 factions. You are in essence loosing sight of this game's long term success. Invite people to a time that doesn't have the maximum potential to retain them isn't the most ideal, now is it? I'd love to see you argue this. Since you love STO so much, I'm surprise you are not using foresight in this matter.

Let me start off by saying that I was one who thought they'd stay with this game for awhile. I even avoided the "doom and gloom" topics on the forums. I agree with OP. I apologize for having a part in having that one shot down (hugs to Jacob). The real issue for me (and ultimately the reason I quit) was that I wasn't getting what I paid for. I'm glad that there are people here who do feel that they are, but as for me (and for a lot of people who we are too quick to dismiss as naysayers) the biggest point of contention was and is that we're getting band-aids for something that needs surgery. I will gladly eat my words should the content expansion be game-wide. There have been many excellent posts by people far more eloquent than I on how to do that.

p.s. If you feel it necessary to say, "You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know MMO's," to me, so be it. I know what I've played and what kept my attention (and money), and have no purpose in measuring my e-manhood against yours.

Thanks for the hug man. Appreciated! :)

But I agree, band-aids do not make for a great game that desperately needs some hardcore consideration and potential revamping. The truth is... it is likely that Cryptic are not incompetent or unwilling... they probably just don't have the time, manpower, resources, and technology to do it. By launching too early, they are having to rush to release things to keep people interested, and we know their team is smaller compared to other MMO's. A former cryptic employee stated once that what they would have 1 person working on at Cryptic, they would have ten people working on at so and so company. That wasn't verbatim.
Whats the point in a reward no one wants? I think it is the nature of a RAF system to give something as a reward desired by many people. Lets be honest, if they designed some new never before seen ship, no one would actually care to participate in the system. So i say threads like this are a big acknowledgement of cryptics marketing idea of the RAF program.

And for the record, i would also love to fly a Galaxy X.

Making a reward that everyone wants is cool. But it's slightly ... surprising that they would choose an item that people wanted in at launch well before the game released. Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.

An easy solution to this would just be to make the Galaxy X available in the C-Store and instead reward people with additional Cryptic Points. That way A) its available to all (albeit through seedy means) and B) RAF participants can CHOOSE what they want.

Problem somewhat solved.

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Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.


A canon ship that was in a few minutes of one episode out of 28 seasons and 11 movies over a 43 year period.

[Archived Post]

[QUOTE=JacobFlowers;2637498]I never said that Cryptic should not "always try to bring in more players"... the point of the OP (which I suspect you did not read) was to say that the way they are going about it is unwise. Didn't you catch that part? And if you did... you failed to counter that point.

Why invite people to a game that is so unfinished? YOU may not think so, but compared to the gaming community at large... I would say there is a consensus. As someone else pointed out, there are some potentially neat things on the horizon for season 2 or season 3, why not wait then? As it is, its a game with repetitive shallow gameplay with 1.5 factions. You are in essence loosing sight of this game's long term success. Invite people to a time that doesn't have the maximum potential to retain them isn't the most ideal, now is it? I'd love to see you argue this. Since you love STO so much, I'm surprise you are not using foresight in this matter.



Thanks for the hug man. Appreciated! :)

But I agree, band-aids do not make for a great game that desperately needs some hardcore consideration and potential revamping. The truth is... it is likely that Cryptic are not incompetent or unwilling... they probably just don't have the time, manpower, resources, and technology to do it. By launching too early, they are having to rush to release things to keep people interested, and we know their team is smaller compared to other MMO's. A former cryptic employee stated once that what they would have 1 person working on at Cryptic, they would have ten people working on at so and so company. That wasn't verbatim.


Making a reward that everyone wants is cool. But it's slightly ... surprising that they would choose an item that people wanted in at launch well before the game released. Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.

An easy solution to this would just be to make the Galaxy X available in the C-Store and instead reward people with additional Cryptic Points. That way A) its available to all (albeit through seedy means) and B) RAF participants can CHOOSE what they want.

Problem somewhat solved. [/QUO

I read your post but it doesn't make much sense. You don't like the game so you use every flame bait topic you can find. To complain about the game you say you don't play. We understand you don't like the game. They released the game to early horse died two months ago and you are still beating it.

I really don't think you should be trying to give business advice to Cryptic. You made a lifetime commitment to game you don't like. I still don't know how anyone could do that. With open beta and you had a certain amount of time to get a refund. This MMO isn't just about you Jacob. There are lots of us who like this game.

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Hey Jacob, said this in another thread but I'm curious of your thoughts.

Actually, it's worse. I think I just figured out the plan. I think they never intended to actually keep the Galaxy-X in the referral package.

See all the people crying for it to appear in the C-Store? I'm sure they'll happily oblige. Remember what was sworn up one side and down the other before launch? That nothing that had actual in-game effects would be sold in the C-store and not available in game? Now they can say they changed that by popular demand.

Tinfoil hat time? Maybe. But it still makes me feel ill.

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I read your post but it doesn't make much sense. You don't like the game so you use every flame bait topic you can find. To complain about the game you say you don't play. We understand you don't like the game. They released the game to early horse died two months ago and you are still beating it.

I really don't think you should be trying to give business advice to Cryptic. You made a lifetime commitment to game you don't like. I still don't know how anyone could do that. With open beta and you had a certain amount of time to get a refund. This MMO isn't just about you Jacob. There are lots of us who like this game.

Flame bait? You'd have much more credibility if instead of replying in vague and sweeping arguments, you actually tackled specific things I said. And I never said anything about it all being about "me", you are making it as such. :p

So, I made comments about why I think your opinion isn't valid, and I backed up everything I said with reasons. Where is your rational response other than making the debate about me personally? Give me a break man.

All in all, if Cryptic had taken the time to make a game that a majority of gamers and reviewers feel is a great game to begin with, we wouldn't have the landslide of failing confidences in Cryptic and Atari to begin wtih.



Hey Jacob, said this in another thread but I'm curious of your thoughts.

I'd like to believe that Zinc is more genuine and sincere than trying to employ such elaborate methodology. Secondly, it just adds to the list of guffaws to their name, so I don't think it is probable. However if it is, then I tip my hat at their marketing department for being clever devils.

In any case, whats interesting is that they SHOULD be aware of this issue by now, and yet have chosen not to respond thus far. But, i won't say its not possible.

Things like the death penalty and the difficulty slider are band-aids which they used as marketing fodder to convey an image that "they listen to us"... when in actuality... the progression rate of the game was ridiculously fast. They would have had to have done something to remedy this even if we didn't speak out about it.

What Engelbert refuses to acknowledge, and a few others... are that I have been on these forums and active since I joined at the end of 2008. They don't realize that I came in to this community GUNS BLAZING with excitement, and support for Cryptic and STO. Then, slowly as time went on, I started noticing those tell tale signs that not everything was as healthy for STO as could be.

Long story short, I turned into a critic. I try to think of myself as a reasonable person. This notion is enforced by the fact that I have seen so many "fanboys" turn into skeptics, haters, critics, or simply become disenchanted. You are one of those squidheadx, since I remember even you in the past disagreeing on things that I've brought up. But now look. Its not because of my words either, you came to these conclusions and become disheartened yourself and due to Cryptic's actions/decisions. And YOU, are not the only one. I can name plenty of names here. Plenty. But I won't, cause this isn't an ego trip for me and it pains me that I wasn't wrong in the first place. Believe me, I would have liked to have been.

Oh well.

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I'd like to believe that Zinc is more genuine and sincere than trying to employ such elaborate methodology. Secondly, it just adds to the list of guffaws to their name, so I don't think it is probable. However if it is, then I tip my hat at their marketing department for being clever devils.

In any case, whats interesting is that they SHOULD be aware of this issue by now, and yet have chosen not to respond thus far. But, i won't say its not possible.

I'd like to believe that too. But they've been eroding that commitment from the beginning and keep pushing it farther. My supply of Benefit of Doubt is running a little low at the moment. Even if those statements were sincere at the time they were made, the owners may be making them go back on it to try and grab for more money or whatever. All that's perceptible on my end is credibility and integrity being sacrificed (to the vocal praise of some :rolleyes:).

Things like the death penalty and the difficulty slider are band-aids which they used as marketing fodder to convey an image that "they listen to us"... when in actuality... the progression rate of the game was ridiculously fast. They would have had to have done something to remedy this even if we didn't speak out about it.

In extra-hilarious news, they don't even address that issue. I'm on board with Combadge's assessment that the extra mob XP actually reduces the amount of content to cap and shouldn't be implemented until a system that lets us bring missions to our level is introduced.

Long story short, I turned into a critic. I try to think of myself as a reasonable person. This notion is enforced by the fact that I have seen so many "fanboys" turn into skeptics, haters, critics, or simply become disenchanted. You are one of those squidheadjax*, since I remember even you in the past disagreeing on things that I've brought up. But now look. Its not because of my words either, you came to these conclusions and become disheartened yourself and due to Cryptic's actions/decisions. And YOU, are not the only one. I can name plenty of names here. Plenty. But I won't, cause this isn't an ego trip for me and it pains me that I wasn't wrong in the first place. Believe me, I would have liked to have been.

Oh well.



I think we've been on the same and opposite sides at various times, though I'll certainly vouch for witnessing a general tendency for fannishness to slide to hate around here. I follow more of a downward-angled sine curve.

Honestly, you do come off as high on yourself sometimes. So do I, apparently, and sometimes I also come off as shrill and vein-poppy. But it's also clear to me you've always said honestly what you think is in the game's best interest.

*fixed for spelling. :p!

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I agree with OP. Bad timing as usual. Should have done this after season 2(assuming that it fixes anything anyway).

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A canon ship that was in a few minutes of one episode out of 28 seasons and 11 movies over a 43 year period.

Well obviously it made an impact.

:rolleyes:

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Civil? You can't keep this civil. It's no more civil than my 2 year old falling on the floor crying because she isn't getting what she wants.

Same thing here. WAH WAH I want the ship how dare you make me have to recruit people to your game!

People cried in the same way about the stupid zebra in WoW too. If you can't spend the time or effort to get the awesome ship, you don't deserve it. I mean, they obviously don't want everyone and their mom flying it. So it's tied to a hard task.

These comments are very crude, cruel and uncaring.

Some people like myself don't have friends who are into computers. Getting the Galaxy X is impossible for some. All I ask is Cryptic make it available via some other means and/or at a later date. Those who can meet the 5 sub requirements should get this ship first.

Also a lot of anger stems from the fact that lots of star trek fans are only interested in canon ships (me included). It's extremely disappointing to see ship after ship update in the C-Store be non-canon Cryptic ships and the first canon one since TOS Connie is out of my reach.

Go ahead and flame some more. I think I've been civil and have not gone off the deep end. It's not the end of the world but this RAF offer is very disappointing to me.

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Flame bait? You'd have much more credibility if instead of replying in vague and sweeping arguments, you actually tackled specific things I said. And I never said anything about it all being about "me", you are making it as such. :p

So, I made comments about why I think your opinion isn't valid, and I backed up everything I said with reasons. Where is your rational response other than making the debate about me personally? Give me a break man.

All in all, if Cryptic had taken the time to make a game that a majority of gamers and reviewers feel is a great game to begin with, we wouldn't have the landslide of failing confidences in Cryptic and Atari to begin wtih.





I'd like to believe that Zinc is more genuine and sincere than trying to employ such elaborate methodology. Secondly, it just adds to the list of guffaws to their name, so I don't think it is probable. However if it is, then I tip my hat at their marketing department for being clever devils.

In any case, whats interesting is that they SHOULD be aware of this issue by now, and yet have chosen not to respond thus far. But, i won't say its not possible.

Things like the death penalty and the difficulty slider are band-aids which they used as marketing fodder to convey an image that "they listen to us"... when in actuality... the progression rate of the game was ridiculously fast. They would have had to have done something to remedy this even if we didn't speak out about it.

What Engelbert refuses to acknowledge, and a few others... are that I have been on these forums and active since I joined at the end of 2008. They don't realize that I came in to this community GUNS BLAZING with excitement, and support for Cryptic and STO. Then, slowly as time went on, I started noticing those tell tale signs that not everything was as healthy for STO as could be.

Long story short, I turned into a critic. I try to think of myself as a reasonable person. This notion is enforced by the fact that I have seen so many "fanboys" turn into skeptics, haters, critics, or simply become disenchanted. You are one of those squidheadx, since I remember even you in the past disagreeing on things that I've brought up. But now look. Its not because of my words either, you came to these conclusions and become disheartened yourself and due to Cryptic's actions/decisions. And YOU, are not the only one. I can name plenty of names here. Plenty. But I won't, cause this isn't an ego trip for me and it pains me that I wasn't wrong in the first place. Believe me, I would have liked to have been.

Oh well.



A MMO should always try to get it's players to recruit their friends at all times. Not when Jacob feels the game is ready to start a recruitment program. Don't try to question my credibility. You advertised for a different MMO for weeks. I do appreciate that you have stopped. Thank you.

There is no way can prove my point is isn't vaild. Nothing you said was grounded in reason. A MMO should always try to have it's players recruit their friends, family or more people. At all times after launch three months after launch isn't to soon. By the time a player reaches level cap there will be even more content.

It's you and a few others claiming landslides in loss of confidence. There are plenty of others who see that Cryptic is working hard to make the game better. Have great confidence in them. Just because of some poor reviews on some gaming blogs aren't good it's not the death of the game.

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1. People complaining that Cryptic is just looking for a "cash grab" is just stupid. I'm sorry, but it is.

Businesses exist to make money, they have to have money or they die. My body needs food, no one complains when I eat breakfast or when I look for more ways to get more food. My car needs gas, no one complains when I fill up the gas tank. No one complains when Walmart makes a profit, so why do we complain that Cryptic is searching for other ways to make money? Don't like microtransactions? Don't use them.


2. The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I first read about the RaF program. They should have waited until after Season 2 to debut this new program. As it stands now, new people invited will just see a broken and half-finished game. Quitters invited back are going to see the same game they just left with a tiny amount of improvements. It's not going to keep them. And then when Season 2 does come out they are less likely to come back and try it for a third time.


3. Referring 5 friends gets you a Galaxy X

That's nice and all, but who among us hasn't already talked to all of their friends about STO? Well, those friends that are interested in Star Trek and/or video games that is. Most of a Trekkies friends are likely to also be Trekkies, and if one of them has heard about STO they all have. Same with video game players. The entire set up of this program shows me that whichever marketing genius (probably the same guy that tried to raffle off a seat on the advisory council) thought this program up has no friggin clue who we, the player base, are.

There needs to be an additional way for players to access the Galaxy X. And I'm sorry Jacob, I tried to remain civil, I really did.

[Archived Post]

1. People complaining that Cryptic is just looking for a "cash grab" is just stupid. I'm sorry, but it is.

Businesses exist to make money, they have to have money or they die. My body needs food, no one complains when I eat breakfast or when I look for more ways to get more food. My car needs gas, no one complains when I fill up the gas tank. No one complains when Walmart makes a profit, so why do we complain that Cryptic is searching for other ways to make money? Don't like microtransactions? Don't use them.


2. The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I first read about the RaF program. They should have waited until after Season 2 to debut this new program. As it stands now, new people invited will just see a broken and half-finished game. Quitters invited back are going to see the same game they just left with a tiny amount of improvements. It's not going to keep them. And then when Season 2 does come out they are less likely to come back and try it for a third time.


3. Referring 5 friends gets you a Galaxy X

That's nice and all, but who among us hasn't already talked to all of their friends about STO? Well, those friends that are interested in Star Trek and/or video games that is. Most of a Trekkies friends are likely to also be Trekkies, and if one of them has heard about STO they all have. Same with video game players. The entire set up of this program shows me that whichever marketing genius (probably the same guy that tried to raffle off a seat on the advisory council) thought this program up has no friggin clue who we, the player base, are.

There needs to be an additional way for players to access the Galaxy X. And I'm sorry Jacob, I tried to remain civil, I really did.

Actually you were quite civil, espescially in comparison to a few nameless others in the other thread ;-)

As to your second point. As you already know, I fully agree with your sentiments. I have even been trying to convey what you said to Engelbert, the person who posted directly above you, but to no avail. Perhaps you could elucidate better than I since you tend to be very clear and succint. :)

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I have to agree with the OP. Bad idea. I've tried to get my guild and r/l friends to try STO. All left after their initial impression. Finish the game first.

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As to your second point. As you already know, I fully agree with your sentiments. I have even been trying to convey what you said to Engelbert, the person who posted directly above you, but to no avail. Perhaps you could elucidate better than I since you tend to be very clear and succint. :)
I don't know what more I can say.

Yes, Cryptic should have bonuses for bringing more players to the game.

However, they should have waited until Season 2 was on the live server. Why? Because first impressions sell your product.

Right now the first impression that someone is going to get from STO is that of a buggy, broken game that's way too light on content. If these same people were invited to join after Season 2, they will presumably see an MMO that has more content, more races, and less bugs. Therefore they are more likely to stay.

Well, why not have a RaF now and later? The problem with that is that you're still limited to mostly the same people who'd be interested, and if they've already tried the game once or twice they'll be statistically less likely to want to give it yet another try.

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I don't know what more I can say.

Yes, Cryptic should have bonuses for bringing more players to the game.

However, they should have waited until Season 2 was on the live server. Why? Because first impressions sell your product.

Right now the first impression that someone is going to get from STO is that of a buggy, broken game that's way too light on content. If these same people were invited to join after Season 2, they will presumably see an MMO that has more content, more races, and less bugs. Therefore they are more likely to stay.

Well, why not have a RaF now and later? The problem with that is that you're still limited to mostly the same people who'd be interested, and if they've already tried the game once or twice they'll be statistically less likely to want to give it yet another try.

CORRECT

10/chars

::sigh::

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I agree with the OP. The Galaxy X is a ship I really wanted and the friends I have just look at me funny say no way it us unfinished and there is not Bridge that is unusable in the game and you can not walk through any of your ship Ext.. So I will never get the ship I want. What is Wrong with you Cryptic, you know that we would all want this. So you try to play us into make us do your job for you. For what 5 friend for a full 2 months retention. There is no way any of us will get it and. That is it, isn't it you, have not made the ship yet. You know we can not achieve it so you say it is there, But it is not.

All just to Play us for the 5th time I am sorry but I guess I will never see the Galaxy X. I will not do your job. pay me in free time then we will talk. What you sould do is FIX THE GAME. Also GIVE US WHAT YOU PROMISED. then we could get five friends. But I for one, am tired of being scammed by you. it ends here THIS FAR NO FURTHER. :mad:

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[U]3. Referring 5 friends gets you a Galaxy X

That's nice and all, but who among us hasn't already talked to all of their friends about STO? Well, those friends that are interested in Star Trek and/or video games that is. Most of a Trekkies friends are likely to also be Trekkies, and if one of them has heard about STO they all have. Same with video game players. The entire set up of this program shows me that whichever marketing genius (probably the same guy that tried to raffle off a seat on the advisory council) thought this program up has no friggin clue who we, the player base, are.

There needs to be an additional way for players to access the Galaxy X. And I'm sorry Jacob, I tried to remain civil, I really did.

Well said they do not know us or read what we type here do they.

[Archived Post]

Let me start off by saying that I was one who thought they'd stay with this game for awhile. I even avoided the "doom and gloom" topics on the forums. I agree with OP. I apologize for having a part in having that one shot down (hugs to Jacob). The real issue for me (and ultimately the reason I quit) was that I wasn't getting what I paid for. I'm glad that there are people here who do feel that they are, but as for me (and for a lot of people who we are too quick to dismiss as naysayers) the biggest point of contention was and is that we're getting band-aids for something that needs surgery. I will gladly eat my words should the content expansion be game-wide. There have been many excellent posts by people far more eloquent than I on how to do that.

p.s. If you feel it necessary to say, "You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know MMO's," to me, so be it. I know what I've played and what kept my attention (and money), and have no purpose in measuring my e-manhood against yours.

Seriously - they have a calendar up and do bi-weekly Engineering Reoports that show first hand to the playerbadse what they are working on, and yet, you honestly are trying to post that the Devs are somehow abandoning the game? Wow, I would suggest NREVER playying another MMO as if you think the Devs have somehow 'abandoned' the game because they are adding a 'referal rewards' program (somethiong EVERY current MMO (even Blizzard's World of ********) is doing. This MMO has the most communicative and upfront Dev team in my 13 years of playing MMOs.

If yoyu honestly no longer enjoy the game, I can fully understand quitting; but to infer that the STO Dev Team isn't "sticking with the game"; when there's TONS of written and viual and AVTUAL evidence to the contrary (ie they've added more to the game with a smaller staff in 3 months then I've seen in any MMO to date). Yes, it DID ;launch light on content - but , by the time of the Season 2 update; I think it'll be pretty solid, and just go forward from there.

Again, I'm just amazed how people go off and blow a small situation all out of proportion. Again, other MMOs HAVE done referral rewards programs with 'exclusive' rewards fopr those who participate; but yet again, a small subset of Star Trek fans are up in arms.

You know what I find REALLY amazing is any people say "I can't reccomend this game to a friend, because it sucks." - YET, they are really upset because they CAN'T HAVE a ship's costume of a (now) 'iconic' ship (that appeared for 10 minuites in the final TNG episode) in a game they think sucks, and really don't want to play anymore, because it sucks, and was released unfinshed.

^^^^
I must be dumb, because I don't see the logic here - yet that's what a lot of the rage posts here boild down to.

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if you think that why are you paying for your sub? sincei t's not going towards sto either >_>
plus it's not announced yet, unconfirmed and just rumors.....

Agreed.

A canon ship that was in a few minutes of one episode out of 28 seasons and 11 movies over a 43 year period.

HEHE. True. And let's bring up another topic of discussion. Riker flew that baby Straight up and through the ship as it exploded. So I got 5 players...I got my Fancy ship. Now I want to fly it straight up at a 90 degree turn please!!!!! hehe

1. People complaining that Cryptic is just looking for a "cash grab" is just stupid. I'm sorry, but it is.

Businesses exist to make money, they have to have money or they die. My body needs food, no one complains when I eat breakfast or when I look for more ways to get more food. My car needs gas, no one complains when I fill up the gas tank. No one complains when Walmart makes a profit, so why do we complain that Cryptic is searching for other ways to make money? Don't like microtransactions? Don't use them.

100% agree. One thing I am so tired of hearing.


2. The Game is Painfully Unfinished, Why Invite People Now?

This was the first thing that popped into my head when I first read about the RaF program. They should have waited until after Season 2 to debut this new program. As it stands now, new people invited will just see a broken and half-finished game. Quitters invited back are going to see the same game they just left with a tiny amount of improvements. It's not going to keep them. And then when Season 2 does come out they are less likely to come back and try it for a third time.

I do agree with this aspect of the OP. However I am happy you took it to a better place where the game has a future. Waiting till season 2 would have been a better move by Cryptic. I do agree the game was painfully unfinished at launch, but is getting better and will continue to get better. I wish these negative posters would acknowledge that from time to time.


3. Referring 5 friends gets you a Galaxy X

That's nice and all, but who among us hasn't already talked to all of their friends about STO? Well, those friends that are interested in Star Trek and/or video games that is. Most of a Trekkies friends are likely to also be Trekkies, and if one of them has heard about STO they all have. Same with video game players. The entire set up of this program shows me that whichever marketing genius (probably the same guy that tried to raffle off a seat on the advisory council) thought this program up has no friggin clue who we, the player base, are.

There needs to be an additional way for players to access the Galaxy X. And I'm sorry Jacob, I tried to remain civil, I really did.

I personally don't care about this ship. I don't fly cruisers I love my escort or science vessel. So why would I bother to recruit 5 players for something I don't want. I feel Cryptic fails in this promotion because they cut out a large portion of the player base. Why would anyone who doesn't fly a cruiser or want it as a collectors trophy want to do this? And I 100% agree with you who here has not A: already tried to get some of their wow friends or anyone else to play the game successfully or unsuccessfully doesn't matter it has already been attempted. or B: All our Trek friends already play or are too busy to play. I for one am not going to walk up to strangers to try and sell Cryptic's game without being paid an hourly wage hehe.

Also I do agree that even though I don't see why this ship is so sought after as there are many more cannon ships that seem more exciting to me, some people really want it and therefore should be obtainable somewhere else. To dangle a ship a lot of players have asked for as a reward to a task that really is not possible for most people is rather crass.

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That's just pure speculation from you guys. You have no idea how many will stay or go. A free weekend no one is going to level cap. Some of the players have just taken breaks and plan to come back. This my make them decide too. Some left never return and it's doesn't matter if it's at season two or not.

I play for hours each day and hardly ever see bugs. The ones I have seen were minor. What a lot of people call bugs are bad computers. That don't meet the minimum requirements.

A lot of the people who think this is a bad idea. Are looking at it with jaded eyes. They don't like the game. They don't want others to like the game. They don't play the game. They don't want others to play the game. They don't think the game should have been released three months ago. They don't think it's enough like EVE.

The fact is the game was released three months ago Cryptic has to go on from here. They have to try and recruit new players and offer free weekends. They need to offer free weekends now and season two and three. Cryptic can't wait till their critics on the forums approve when to start their recruitment program. Because some would say never.

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That's just pure speculation from you guys. You have no idea how many will stay or go. A free weekend no one is going to level cap. Some of the players have just taken breaks and plan to come back. This my make them decide too. Some left never return and it's doesn't matter if it's at season two or not.

I play for hours each day and hardly ever see bugs. The ones I have seen were minor. What a lot of people call bugs are bad computers. That don't meet the minimum requirements.

A lot of the people who think this is a bad idea. Are looking at it with jaded eyes. They don't like the game. They don't want others to like the game. They don't play the game. They don't want others to play the game. They don't think the game should have been released three months ago. They don't think it's enough like EVE.

The fact is the game was released three months ago Cryptic has to go on from here. They have to try and recruit new players and offer free weekends. They need to offer free weekends now and season two and three. Cryptic can't wait till their critics on the forums approve when to start their recruitment program. Because some would say never.

check your in-box

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check your in-box

Hm. That's awfully... cryptic of you. A poster makes a point like that, you could respond in public or at least share what you have to say with more people.

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I just wish they'd add content people wanted that you didn't have to jump thru hoops to obtain.

I'm tired of new stuff being cash/gimmick-only in a game I paid $90 for and pay $15.00 a month to play.

This game has more cash-shop items then a lot of Korean f2p MMOs. And it's not F2P. By any means.

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Seriously - they have a calendar up and do bi-weekly Engineering Reoports that show first hand to the playerbadse what they are working on, and yet, you honestly are trying to post that the Devs are somehow abandoning the game?

I keep seeing a similar sentiment. A LOT of people keep criticizing the developers for being shady or not communicating. And it baffles me. Then I realize ... not everyone knows about the engi reports. No matter how many times dstahl links them in his posts.

And not everyone reads the dev tracker. Or clicks on the "dev post" button on threads that have dev posts in them.

So some folks actually think this. They're just not up to speed yet. Crazy, but true. If they'd check out a few of the Engineering Reports ... they'd see how many times dstahl answers a dozen questions in one post.

You know what I find REALLY amazing is any people say "I can't reccomend this game to a friend, because it sucks." - YET, they are really upset because they CAN'T HAVE a ship's costume of a (now) 'iconic' ship (that appeared for 10 minuites in the final TNG episode) in a game they think sucks, and really don't want to play anymore, because it sucks, and was released unfinshed.

That's been one of the things that stumps me. A lot. Some posters just get finished posting in a thread about how unfinished this game is. How they don't play. How bored they are. How they want to or are going to quit. How they can't possibly refer this game to 5 strangers, let alone friends. And then jump into a thread about this ship that was seen in one episode and get very very passionate and frustrated about how they can't fly this ship. In this game they can no longer stand. What's the point of getting a ship for a game they don't want to play? I am stumped.

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Hm. That's awfully... cryptic of you. A poster makes a point like that, you could respond in public or at least share what you have to say with more people.

What I had to say to him, was specifically addressed to him. If I wanted to make a public statement I would have. But since it was private, then it is essentially none of your business.

And as for his "points" they have already been addressed, by myself, Peregrine_Falcon and others. He replies with sweeping generalizations and generally refuses to counter someone's argument by not making specific reference or addressing particular points.

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RAF's and micros are part of the gaming industry now there is no point in crying over it. I don't recall if it was this thread or one of the others where they said no other mmo had done this where the reward was for so many swg at least twice that i can recall did the raf for getting 4 friends you get the new shiny it amazes me how people get so excited over a few pixels virtual items that we don't even own.

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I just feel like this is a lot of air pulling over a really ugly ship. If they were offering a T-5 variant that say looked like this (http://companyofthewolf.org/dreadnought03.jpg) I could maybe understand some of the issues, but all in all it's just typical complain about everything STO community mentality.


If someone wants to take the time to bring five people on or even spend their own money it is their business, it’s not anyone’s fault that you lacks the means. Stop crying about every single thing…it’s embarrassing.

That's about as civil as I can be on the subject.

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I just feel like this is a lot of air pulling over a really ugly ship. If they were offering a T-5 variant that say looked like this (http://www.trekmania.net/art/dreadnought03.jpg) I could maybe understand some of the issues, but all in all it's just typical complain about everything STO community mentality.


If someone wants to take the time to bring five people on or even spend their own money it is their business, it’s not anyone’s fault that you lacks the means. Stop crying about every single thing…it’s embarrassing.

That's about as civil as I can be on the subject.

Who cares about the ship?* I think it's a cow. I'd pay to prevent it from replacing any ship in my inventory.
But it's going to have the forward cannon and maybe cloak. That's straight from dstahl's text. That's mechanics that aren't available in-game yet without any assurances the new tier 5's coming in season 2 are going to have even similar options.

*Some number of people who aren't me.

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RAF's and micros are part of the gaming industry now there is no point in crying over it. I don't recall if it was this thread or one of the others where they said no other mmo had done this where the reward was for so many swg at least twice that i can recall did the raf for getting 4 friends you get the new shiny it amazes me how people get so excited over a few pixels virtual items that we don't even own.

I agree with you. But the point some people currently are trying to make is that the RAF program is currently flawed.

1. It only offers a cruiser ship. Where is the science, escort for the people who don't like cruisers.
2. The game is still a bit rough around the edges. It would have been better to try and recruit after season 2 when the game will be in better shape.
3. Offering an item that is A. Cannon B. very mush sought after by it would seem a lot of players is only going to frustrate people who have already most likely recruited all their friends they know of or they are already playing. I personally do not know 5 people I could ask who might want to play this game that are already no playing. And for those who have been waiting for this ship they are left with it dangling in front of them and they will probably never see it. Even though I could care less about that ship I can understand that frustration.

RAF's are fine. C-store items are fine.. IMHO. But never put game changing things or iconic items in the C-store or in hard to get promos. This is the points these threads are trying to get across. There has been a lot of brain-dead whining about some ridiculous things in these forums but there has been some decent arguments as well. And I may not agree with the overall negative overtones of the OP I do feel he has a point here.

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Who cares about the ship?* I think it's a cow. I'd pay to prevent it from replacing any ship in my inventory.
But it's going to have the forward cannon and maybe cloak. That's straight from dstahl's text. That's mechanics that aren't available in-game yet without any assurances the new tier 5's coming in season 2 are going to have even similar options.

*Some number of people who aren't me.

The forward cannon will be like the Red matter you got with the pre order nice but not that effective, and as for the cloak first it's huge maybe and secondly I'm smelling a nerfed all to hell gimmick if they do add it...ether way it's not nearly worth all the QQ that it has been producing...god I would hate to see the angst if something major was announced.:rolleyes:

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A canon ship that was in a few minutes of one episode out of 28 seasons and 11 movies over a 43 year period.

I agree. Just like the Olympic class, and we all know that isn't in the game yet...

oh, wai...

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What I find folly is what we are being payed to guarantee a minimum of 1 month subscription. I get payed $4 for every person who buys/subs for 1 month to the game. Meanwhile I am still paying $15 per month in order to access the game. After 5 people I get the most advnced content/ship in the game...not buy buying it on C-store, not by completing an STF and getting it as a rare drop...the most advanced content/ship in the game....that is what sunk in for me.

So either I get a better wage for expanding the client base (education and resume available upon request) for out of game time, or some method of putting these content pieces in the game.

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I normally don't like your completely negative tone and non-constructive criticism, but I would like to add that I would be very surprised if I ever saw anyone fly one in game.

I love the idea of encouraging people to show this game to their friends, but getting 5 people? Yikes! I might convince 2 or 3 if I really try, but I'm scared they would just quit in a month anyway....

People will buy five subs just to get one...which was certainly considered when implementing this.

I'll be very curious to see the ship's finalized attributes. If they are game changing---like it gives the Feds a cloak or something----then there is going to be a major storm on the horizon.


Roark

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RAF's are fine. C-store items are fine.. IMHO. But never put game changing things or iconic items in the C-store or in hard to get promos. This is the points these threads are trying to get across. There has been a lot of brain-dead whining about some ridiculous things in these forums but there has been some decent arguments as well. And I may not agree with the overall negative overtones of the OP I do feel he has a point here.


Why not? If you want to keep the reward 'special' and have it 'mean' something, you limit the number of them that can be obtained. Having the Galaxy-X as a RAF reward makes sense, and is a good thing.

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Why not? If you want to keep the reward 'special' and have it 'mean' something, you limit the number of them that can be obtained. Having the Galaxy-X as a RAF reward makes sense, and is a good thing.

Why? Why should an iconic, canon ship with new gameplay elements be exclusive?
You people make absolutely no argument as to why it should be other than "it's a good thing."
That's not an argument. That's a mantra.

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And here we are back at the beginning of this cycle again.

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Why? Why should an iconic, canon ship with new gameplay elements be exclusive?
You people make absolutely no argument as to why it should be other than "it's a good thing."
That's not an argument. That's a mantra.

And your mantra is 'it's not fair because I want it and don't have anyone to refer' which also, is not an argument.

RAF rewards need to be exclusive to RAF programs, I know of no MMO that makes their RAF rewards available outside of the RAF program. If they become available outside of the RAF, they could lose their appeal as a 'reward' since others would be able to obtain it without having to do anything, except, QQ on the forums because life isn't fair.

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And your mantra is 'it's not fair because I want it and don't have anyone to refer' which also, is not an argument.

No, the fact that a lot of us have nobody to referr/HAVE ALREADY REFERRED makes it more absurd.

RAF rewards need to be exclusive to RAF programs, I know of no MMO that makes their RAF rewards available outside of the RAF program. If they become available outside of the RAF, they could lose their appeal as a 'reward' since others would be able to obtain it without having to do anything, except, QQ on the forums because life isn't fair.

And at which point did any of us say there shouldn't be referral rewards?
It just shouldn't be THIS ONE.

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And here we are back at the beginning of this cycle again.

And we will be until Cryptic wakes up and changes this.

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And we will be until Cryptic wakes up and changes this.

Or, until some people realize that a 'reward' is something that should take at least a minimal amount of effort, and not everyone is entitled to it.

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Or, until some people realize that a 'reward' is something that should take at least a minimal amount of effort, and not everyone is entitled to it.

I agree.
If it's in-game effort.

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No, the fact that a lot of us have nobody to referr/HAVE ALREADY REFERRED makes it more absurd.

RAF programs will ALWAYS miss people who got people started playing the game prior to the launch of the RAF program, that's just how things work. I referred people to WoW before they had a RAF program, does that mean I'm entitled to the RAF rewards? Nope, not at all, because I didn't do the referrals during the promotion period. It's life, it's not fair, and it never will be.

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I agree.
If it's in-game effort.

RAF rewards don't make much sense for an in-game effort, since, you know... that's not RAF and all.

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I don't even know 5 other PC gamers. Good thing I always hated the Galaxy-X. :rolleyes:
- Kitkun

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Honestly, I'm mixed about the RAF rewards. I do love the Vet rewards though, but think it could use more stuff at 400 days.

I do not believe however that everything offered through RAF or VET rewards must be also in the C-store or that the lifers "deserve" all the cool stuff. I think overall, the RAF reward snd VET rewards are pretty balanced. We aren't going to like every decision they make... and I don't care if there is ONE ship i can't have. I have others that I really like.

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RAF programs will ALWAYS miss people who got people started playing the game prior to the launch of the RAF program, that's just how things work. I referred people to WoW before they had a RAF program, does that mean I'm entitled to the RAF rewards? Nope, not at all, because I didn't do the referrals during the promotion period. It's life, it's not fair, and it never will be.

Get off your high horse. Again, WoW can get away with things STO can't.
When STO has as much content as WoW and enough t5 ships with equivalent abilities that make the Galaxy X a marginal gimmick then we can talk.

Also, life's not fair. Yeah. Those who accept that never get anything changed.

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RAF rewards don't make much sense for an in-game effort, since, you know... that's not RAF and all.

I'm talking about the Galaxy X.
The Galaxy X should be available through in game effort, not real world shilling.

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Or, until some people realize that a 'reward' is something that should take at least a minimal amount of effort, and not everyone is entitled to it.

So let us work for it IN GAME, where everyone has a fair shot at it if they want it.

You have to realize that a lot of people who many of us might try to refer have already tried the game once, saw how incomplete and lackluster it was and gave it a pass. Unless the RAF program is put on hold until at least after Season 2's LAST update, even if some of those people do give it a chance, they are not going to see much difference, and will quit again. Good luck coaxing them back a third time...

Also, in a way, this can be viewd as a contest. Some regions do not allow things like this, so because of some regional law, people are excluded.

This can also be abused. Anyone with the money can buy up five copies of the game and subscribe, then dump it. Unless Cryptic has it set up where you don't get your Galaxy-X until after five of your referals have had their account charged $14.99, then it hasn't benefited the game at all.

Whether you agree with Cryptic's plan or not, the bottom line is that it is not going to have the effect they are hoping for. I fear they will lose more people over it than they retain.

Why doesn't the marketing department just pitch the game itself? I mean, if it is really worth it, it can stand on its own merrits without the need for a gimmick.

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So let us work for it IN GAME, where everyone has a fair shot at it if they want it.

You have to realize that a lot of people who many of us might try to refer have already tried the game once, saw how incomplete and lackluster it was and gave it a pass. Unless the RAF program is put on hold until at least after Season 2's LAST update, even if some of those people do give it a chance, they are not going to see much difference, and will quit again. Good luck coaxing them back a third time...

Also, in a way, this can be viewd as a contest. Some regions do not allow things like this, so because of some regional law, people are excluded.

This can also be abused. Anyone with the money can buy up five copies of the game and subscribe, then dump it. Unless Cryptic has it set up where you don't get your Galaxy-X until after five of your referals have had their account charged $14.99, then it hasn't benefited the game at all.

Whether you agree with Cryptic's plan or not, the bottom line is that it is not going to have the effect they are hoping for. I fear they will lose more people over it than they retain.

Why doesn't the marketing department just pitch the game itself? I mean, if it is really worth it, it can stand on its own merrits without the need for a gimmick.

It's fair as it is now (with the possible exception of areas where prohibited by law- but, I don't think it is, since it's not a contest), everyone has the chance to get it by referring 5 friends. Those who do, great they get the ship, those who don't... don't get the ship. There is nothing 'unfair' about it's current setup.


And, yes, it's setup to only 'count' if the referred party pays for at least a 1 month subscription. Will there be some people who buy 5 copies of the game, and subscribe for 1 month on each one.. probably.. but, these are also the same people who pre-launch were buying pre-orders from multiple locations to get all the pre-order rewards they wanted. If they can afford it... great, I'm not going to tell anyone what they can, or cannot spend their money on.

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Alright that's it Teranika, you refuse to get it and people should just stop trying.
I'm putting you on ignore and I suggest anyone with any sense do the same.

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I'm talking about the Galaxy X.
The Galaxy X should be available through in game effort, not real world shilling.

The Galaxy X should be available for RAF reward, not in game reward.

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Alright that's it Teranika, you refuse to get it and people should just stop trying.
I'm putting you on ignore and I suggest anyone with any sense do the same.

Ahhh... I disagree with you, therefore, I don't 'get it' and should be ignored. Brilliant! What a mature way to deal with anyone who doesn't share your opinion!

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It's fair as it is now (with the possible exception of areas where prohibited by law- but, I don't think it is, since it's not a contest), everyone has the chance to get it by referring 5 friends. Those who do, great they get the ship, those who don't... don't get the ship. There is nothing 'unfair' about it's current setup.

Agreed, nothing is perfect and who knows, maybe the ship will be available through some other method at another time. The accolade system changes offer potential towards that in the future.

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These comments are very crude, cruel and uncaring.

Some people like myself don't have friends who are into computers. Getting the Galaxy X is impossible for some. All I ask is Cryptic make it available via some other means and/or at a later date...

[...]

Go ahead and flame some more. I think I've been civil and have not gone off the deep end. It's not the end of the world but this RAF offer is very disappointing to me.


Well, it's obviously too early to say if there won't be any other means to obtain this ship. Chances are there won't be, as it's intended to be a special reward to those who accomplish a pretty difficult feat.

It's not like you need to get everyone at once so you can have the ship first. It's something you can work on over the course of months, or even a year.

The bigger issue is below...


Only reason I got annoyed about that offer in WoW was because its illegal to run referal programs like that here in Denmark (as it falls under pyramid scheme laws) so I couldn't get it.

See, that's jacked, and understandably frustrating. I suggest moving =)

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I disagree with the original post. I really don't see the folly in what they're doing. RAF Programs similar to this have been successful in other games. Sure, it would be cool to have a Galaxy X because it's so different-- and because there's plenty of people who want a Tier5 Galaxy option. But I think there's conflicting issues with most people wanting this removed from the Referral Program.

People have been up in arms about "People have been asking for the Galaxy X forever!", but I didn't see many threads about that before the RAF rewards were announced. Mostly ships like the Nebula and Excelsior, and rightfully so -- and refitting Tier4 ships for Tier5. In my opinion, a lot of people wanting the Galaxy X to become "non-exclusive" just want it because it looks similar to a Galaxy and they want to fly a Galaxy at Tier5. Or they want something cool and unique without putting forth the effort to earning it.

Also I don't think getting fresh blood into the game is going to hurt Star Trek Online. Unfinished or not, there's still plenty of people who play and enjoy their time and experiences. Why shouldn't we be rewarded for getting new recruits? If anything, seeing all the furor over the Galaxy X just proves how good of a marketing move this is. If Cryptic is smart, they'll keep the Galaxy X as exclusive-- it will drive plenty of people who truly want that ship to earn it, and boost STO in the process.

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Whether you agree with Cryptic's plan or not, the bottom line is that it is not going to have the effect they are hoping for. I fear they will lose more people over it than they retain.

I'm sorry, but honestly, anyone who quits because they can;t have ONE ship costume and 400 CPs (what about $4.00) is not a player I want to encounter or group with ionn game - and I for one, won't miss him/her. I swear, with all th unmitigated whining over this, I have to question how many players are 5 years old or YOUNGER. Seriously.

1) The 3 Nacelle Galaxy refit is suddenly iconic eh? I have to seriously wonder if the ehiners somehow think this untrue statement adds to their argument. It doesn't. In 44 years of Star Trek, the ship appeared in ONE episode (the final TNG episode) fo 10 minutes; and in fact was a one off homage to the older TOS fans who had the Franz Joeseph original Star Trek Tech manual (circa. 1975). In that manual was the 3 nacelled Federation Dreadnaught - which looked MOST like a 3 nacelled TOS Constitution Class starship with a larger (and slightly modified Primary and Seconday hull). But 'Iconic'? Please. the original 1701 USS Enterprise in iconic. The TNG original 1701-D is iconic. The 3 nacelled AGT alternate universe refit 1701-D that could cloak and do SWarp 13 - sorry not iconic.

2) I have a feeling had this been announced for the C-Store; people actually would have cried aboiut the cost for a ship whose look could not be customized (or did you MISS the Dev comment that styated the ship look will NOT be miodifiable); and we probably would have seen a '1500 CP for a ship that was on te final episode of TNG for 10 minutes - LOL!' thread.

But lets, be honest - because it's ONLY attainable through the RAF program, suddenly a group of players (for whatever reason) 'can't/won't play STO without it' - and somehow feel cheated'

Also, the thing I find most interesting is a lot of folks are saying stuff like: "I would never refer a 'frieind' to this game because it's unfinished and sucks hard.'

(And yet, the point of the argument is to make a ship attainable by other means so the many players who state the above can have it and CONTINUE to pay for/play an MMO that is unfinished and sucks....:confused:)

^^^^^
Would you take anyone with the above mindset seriously? I sure wouldn't. But my god, if I was prt of te Dev team or management, I might seriously be reconsidering WHY they bothered to acquire this IP, since Star Trek fans (and I've been one myself since 1969) will rage over anything no matter how minor.

/em shakes head and walks off.

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Just a reminder, if you haven't voted in Nagus' poll yet, you can do so here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=155549

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Alright that's it Teranika, you refuse to get it and people should just stop trying.
I'm putting you on ignore and I suggest anyone with any sense do the same.

I think you need to put me on your ignore list too. As a matter of fact, anyone who disagrees with you needs to be put on your ignore list. We are just too civil minded for you.

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Adding rewards for difficult tasks is great, however, why is it almost every cool item been adding to the game these days (Bridges, ship variants, races) requires money to change hands, either by buying them though the C-store or by getting 5 people to buy STO. I'm more than aware Cryptic has to make money, hence why I happily paid for the game 'and' bought a lifetime subscription, but the C-store is been filled up with items quicker than alot of F2P ingame stores do. Worse yet, there seems to be very little been added for people not willing to buy though the C-store, which means there is little to strive for my completeing the game content, which i'd be fine with in a F2P MMO, but the is a game you pay to play!

Right now I'm no longer playing STO because I'm genuinely bored with nothing to actualy strive for, having a ship like the Galaxy-X, which is sounding like the most powerful ship on the Fed side with its power phaser and more importantly, cloak, as a ship you need to complete ingame content to get would be a great way to retain players, same goes for races, having races like the pakleds and caitians unlockable for completing quest chains would retain people and make them play, instead you have to buy these items and once you have them, there is no content to actually play to retain your interest. The referal program has just been the 'straw that broke the camels back' for alot of people with this trend of players having to pay extra for content when they are already paying monthly fees.

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I'm not a fan of the C-Store either; after all, I thought these kinds of things are what my monthly subscription helped to pay for? I can sort of understand certain things, I guess. But extra bridge layouts? Really? Why can't these be rewards for difficult missions? Or accrued after X amount of time spent paying for the game?

But complaining about the C-Store isn't what this thread is about.

Getting 5 people to purchase the game and pay for a months worth of subscription isn't comparable to buying things from the C-Store. For one, there's nothing "extra" being paid for. It's natural... it's no different than anyone else. I don't see nor understand the analogy, or why people buying the game is contemptible and encouraging this is bad form on Cryptic's part. :confused:

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I'm not a fan of the C-Store either; after all, I thought these kinds of things are what my monthly subscription helped to pay for? I can sort of understand certain things, I guess. But extra bridge layouts? Really? Why can't these be rewards for difficult missions? Or accrued after X amount of time spent paying for the game?

But complaining about the C-Store isn't what this thread is about.

Getting 5 people to purchase the game and pay for a months worth of subscription isn't comparable to buying things from the C-Store. For one, there's nothing "extra" being paid for. It's natural... it's no different than anyone else. I don't see nor understand the analogy, or why people buying the game is contemptible and encouraging this is bad form on Cryptic's part. :confused:

There's a couple hundred extra dollars going to Cryptic which may not have been generated at all if the carrot weren't being dangled. People who've already gotten other people to play, even through explicit and traceable means like passing out their buddy codes, aren't even getting tossed a bone for making the same 'contributions'. And someone can just shell out that money out-of-pocket if they have sufficient disposable income and not generate any actual new players.

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There's a couple hundred extra dollars going to Cryptic which may not have been generated at all if the carrot weren't being dangled. People who've already gotten other people to play, even through explicit and traceable means like passing out their buddy codes, aren't even getting tossed a bone for making the same 'contributions'. And someone can just shell out that money out-of-pocket if they have sufficient disposable income and not generate any actual new players.

As for purchasing 5 extra accounts for this... well, if they're willing to pay that much money. Kudos! This kind of thing isn't unheard of; as far back as EverQuest I've played with people who multi-box... playing several characters, all under different accounts, at the same time. That's their prerogative, and certainly gives them an advantage over me-- solo player, doing my thing. :)

Personally, I'm glad they're starting a demo program. The one buddy key I got for buying the game wasn't enough. Several of my friends want to try the game, and I've already had to beg other people I know in-game for their buddy keys for my friends. So no, it's certainly not a dangling carrot for me. I've been wanting a traditional "free trial" for a while now. Everything else is just a bonus. I guess that doesn't apply to everyone, though. But hey, I don't see anything wrong with a recruitment drive. :D

But yeah, would be nice is past deeds would transfer. Can't argue with that!

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Adding rewards for difficult tasks is great, however, why is it almost every cool item been adding to the game these days (Bridges, ship variants, races) requires money to change hands, either by buying them though the C-store or by getting 5 people to buy STO. I'm more than aware Cryptic has to make money, hence why I happily paid for the game 'and' bought a lifetime subscription, but the C-store is been filled up with items quicker than alot of F2P ingame stores do. Worse yet, there seems to be very little been added for people not willing to buy though the C-store, which means there is little to strive for my completeing the game content, which i'd be fine with in a F2P MMO, but the is a game you pay to play!

Right now I'm no longer playing STO because I'm genuinely bored with nothing to actualy strive for, having a ship like the Galaxy-X, which is sounding like the most powerful ship on the Fed side with its power phaser and more importantly, cloak, as a ship you need to complete ingame content to get would be a great way to retain players, same goes for races, having races like the pakleds and caitians unlockable for completing quest chains would retain people and make them play, instead you have to buy these items and once you have them, there is no content to actually play to retain your interest. The referal program has just been the 'straw that broke the camels back' for alot of people with this trend of players having to pay extra for content when they are already paying monthly fees.

Here's hoping that this thread doesn't degenerate. :(

Really, more than anything else this is what's of concern to me in this whole R5F thing. I've no problem with people getting 5 referrals getting something special. (Hell, at this point, getting five people to sign up and stay for two months is a not inconsiderable achievement.) I'd love such people to get some good recognition. I'm not even intrinsically opposed to them getting the Galaxy-X*. And I won't begrudge Cryptic trying to make more money and draw in more subscribers. But... and there's always a 'but'....

Well. Suricata put it a lot better than I. I know that we get a modest chunk of content for our subscription, and some more is on the way, but a nontrivial amount is going to the C-Store or to exclusives. I don't want it on a silver platter, and I don't just want it on the C-Store. In fact, I think putting the Galaxy-X on the C-Store is the WORST possible thing to do; we were constantly reassured that things like that were not what the C-Store was for. I strongly endorse the idea of making it -- or, at least, similar things -- available as part of long mission/episode chains (not grinds.)

As an example, I've been looking forward to the Caitans for a while now; but if there was some sort of quest chain to unlock them -- say,even just an episode, 'Mission to Cait,' to knock out a Klingon attempt at wooing or forcing them to their side** ... then suddenly it's worth a LOT MORE to me than just buying it off the C-Store.*** I remember in FFXI as a red mage, going for The Hat -- refugees from that game know *exactly* what I'm talking about. It took weeks if not *months* of in-game work to find a group that I could join that was going for it. (And refugees from that game know exactly what I'm talking about there, too. :( ) But when I got it? and the rest of my artifact armor? Damn... that was the business.

The thing is, though... I didn't need to go out and shill FFXI to five people (or even one person) to get it. I didn't have to pay Squeenix to get it. It was there, in the game, one of the biggest achievements I've ever gotten in a game despite loathing grinds. Now, I still dislike grindalicious games... but the grind goes away when it's not a grind, when it's a goal-oriented mission like how we already have in the game. Thinking about it, and pondering the issue of STO, long-term viability, and enjoyment... that's what I'd like to see more of. The kerfluffle surrounding the Galaxy-X exclusivity is a symptom, not really a cause.

The point is... where is the content for the people who are just playing the game?


* - I still would like a narrow-arc high-power phaser beam cannon to be available. ^_^ And I claim no other reason for this desire other than the Rule of Cool. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool)
** - Since, you know, just like cats... when they're in, they want out, and when they're out, they want in.
*** - There is a difference between going out and asking five people to try the game (and possibly strong-arming them into staying for two months) and working towards something within the game. I will not say one is harder than the other; that's not the point. It's a different type of effort.

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It doesnt mater what shiny it is peopel will still want it and complain how they can't get it

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It doesnt mater what shiny it is peopel will still want it and complain how they can't get it

Perhaps, but the indications are strong that it will be more than just a shiny.

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Hey Everyone,

I've placed this discussion in the feedback forums we just created for C-Store items and Promotions.

Thanks!

-Destra

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Hey Everyone,

I've placed this discussion in the feedback forums we just created for C-Store items and Promotions.

Thanks!

-Destra

IE, you want to "ghetto" off discussion of your RMT stuff so that they don't appear in the most read forums.

The Smed is strong in this one.

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I disagree on both of the OP's points. I have a friend who is a long-time MMO player. Last month, I sent him my buddy key, he gave the game a shot, and he liked it. Quite a lot, and the game at that time certainly lacked even a lot of the features it has now. He has some financial considerations which have preventing from puchasing a sub just yet, but he intends to.

As for the All Good Things Galaxy...I think it's a fine reward for the referral program. It's not "exclusive" to anybody in that we all have a chance to earn it. Sure, it's hard to get 5 friends to try the game - I don't have a hope in hell, personally - but it's a highly desirable reward for a very difficult task.

Would I be opposed to Cryptic lowering the referral requirement to, say, 3 friends? No, that would be fine. But if they want to leave it as-is, that's cool to. It's certainly not what I would call a "folly," though you're free to disagree. :)

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I've placed this discussion in the feedback forums we just created for C-Store items and Promotions.

GM_Destra, I sent you a PM, please get back to me as soon as posible, thank you.

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IE, you want to "ghetto" off discussion of your RMT stuff so that they don't appear in the most read forums.

The Smed is strong in this one.

Yeah that was my first thought as well. :o

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Hey GM_Destra.

I’m personally sad to hear that, since I have already “recruited” two people to join the game. I know your system doesn’t work with the other system, but how about you make it work or some other way arrange people to get “credit” for the people they already have recruited.

For example, I got one friend to play, buy and pay for the game and playtime through my Collectors Edition “Friends trail” card. Now I have the card still and the code he used from it, so I could in theory easily point out his @handler and what code he used for starting the trail. So that would be one way to do those.

Now onto the other friends that I used your “Buddy Codes” where we got a code from the website by selecting that service and then it send of a code to me that I then forwarded to him, whereas he also played, bought and played for subscription time. Once again I can point you to his @handler and also provide the code he started the trail on.

So both these ways we could prove to have recruited people already through your own options/services.

I know your system wasn’t made for retroactive perspective, but that does not mean that it cannot be altered for it to work in the fairness of people recruiting friends early so that we can have a wider player basis.

So I personally would really appreciate if you would be as kind and take this up with whomever it might concern.

Kind Regards
Adfectio

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This is (yet another) step in the wrong direction. *** has a new expansion coming out next week, I'm seriously considering giving that game another try.

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GM_Destra, I've been looking over the "refer a friend" program and thinking about the consequences. I've come to the conclusion that the player who is referred to STO should also get something special to keep, such as a Tribble or a Uniform Code, which will give people who are not playing the game the incentive to give STO a chance for a month.

At present the current system does not really give anything special to the potential new player and if I was the player being referred, I would definitely give it a go if I was going to get something special.

The ability to travel to your new friend for 30 days and the bonuses when teamed up are just not incentive enough in my opinion, but just a suggestion, although it may be to late.

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Where is your proof of this? Please link to actual data that can show this is what will happen with STO.

I don't need proof I've actually entertained the notion, but my income is too thin and I have a '56 Ford F-100 that demands that money for an engine/trans swap and a paint job. What's more important in life having that cool virtual uber ship that will eventually be obsolete or driving an already obsolete pickup that's PINK! Why did the previous owner have to paint it PINK!!!

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This is (yet another) step in the wrong direction. *** has a new expansion coming out next week, I'm seriously considering giving that game another try.

Why did you stop playing that game in the first place?

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GM_Destra, I've been looking over the "refer a friend" program and thinking about the consequences. I've come to the conclusion that the player who is referred to STO should also get something special to keep, such as a Tribble or a Uniform Code, which will give people who are not playing the game the incentive to give STO a chance for a month.

At present the current system does not really give anything special to the potential new player and if I was the player being referred, I would definitely give it a go if I was going to get something special.

The ability to travel to your new friend for 30 days and the bonuses when teamed up are just not incentive enough in my opinion, but just a suggestion, although it may be to late.

I agree. There has to be an incentive for a friend to join up. If the game were more polished, then no incentive would be neccessary. But then the RAF program wouldn't be neccessary either.

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GM_Destra, will we be able to refer more than 5 people? Currently the system only allows us to invite 5 people and also, can you explain if we are able to invite players who have already played the game, but no longer have active subscriptions please?

Thank you! :)

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This whole RAF debacle saddens me. In some largely inexplicable way I feel that there's been a line crossed between we the customers and Atari/Cryptic the people we pay to play the game. I'll try to sum up why I'm bothered by the Galaxy-X being tied to the referral program as best I can.

We pay to access what content there is in the game and even though I've been supportive of the C-Store (both ideologically and monetarily!), I still feel that for the price we pay we should have access to just about everything in game. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have to unlock items through missions or through in-game effort, just that if we put the time in, we should be able to all get what stuff there is. Now, however, there's this new RAF program that offers exclusive items that are only achievable by actions completed outside the game. Moreover, they're not all just vanity items, for pure coolness factor-- which I'd have no problem with-- they feature an iconic and much-demanded item that looks as if it will have special properties that none of the other ships we currently have access to have.

This is what bothers me. Yes, yes, maybe I'm caught up in the entitlement generation. Nevertheless, I paid for a year's subscription to Cryptic with the notion that my money would provide a level playing field. Along comes Galaxy-X, which does not figure to be in the same category as the TOS Connie ship or the Borg Bridge Officer or the TOS miniskirt, but upsets the whole notion of fair play for fair pay.

I'm disappointed in Cryptic/Atari for taking this step, particularly after the profoundly negative feedback from the community. I'm disappointed in Cryptic/Atari for alienating its current playerbase in order to solicit more subs. And I'm disappointed in Cryptic/Atari for this new business model that puts truly "special" items outside the reach of its regular subscribers, whether it's for sale in the C-Store or dependent on getting another set of people to play the game.

Really, however, I'm most disappointed that someone with power in the company didn't say to themselves, "Self, this ship is so awesome and iconic and wonderful that I just know our players are going to be unhappy that's it's only for the RAF program. Let's give them another way to get their hands on it, too." Instead they've made it very clear that they are more interested in incentivizing players pulling in new subs than giving those players what they've wanted and asked for since day one.

Bad form, bad form.

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upsets the whole notion of fair play for fair pay.

I adore your post in general, and I am stealing the above words for future use.

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I adore your post in general.
Same here. Well done TheCapitaine... a very reasonable and thought provoking post. :D

Really, however, I'm most disappointed that someone with power in the company didn't say to themselves, "Self, this ship is so awesome and iconic and wonderful that I just know our players are going to be unhappy that's it's only for the RAF program. Let's give them another way to get their hands on it, too." Instead they've made it very clear that they are more interested in incentivizing players pulling in new subs than giving those players what they've wanted and asked for since day one.
And after reading this, I don't know whats worse... that the higher ups didn't think this move would enrage their ebstablished customers or that they didn't care if it did. :rolleyes:

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Compared to other mmos that launched with about 6 solid months of content (such as wow and I believe Guild Wars) most of my friends when I mentioned how you can play through 90% of the content and reach the RA 5 level cap in a month and a half (3-4 weeks if you are hard core) they looked at me like :eek: :confused: and just laughed at the idea of paying not only for the game, but monthly for a sub to it on top of c-store MT's for additional content when the game is still very much lacking in well; everything?

Those star trek fans that do join are very likey to get bored in 2 months or less and quite possibly frustrated at the lack of content/repetitive game play at this state of things and leave with no intention of returning and feel jipped our of their cash. (and rightfully so)

(Not to mention prospective players likely keep an eye on these forums and know full well the lack of content and bugs that currently are present and the subscription bleed rate.)

Unless they change to the GW format of "free to play after purchase" and then profit off of c-store MT's (Much like guildwars does) I have doubts very many people will find 1 let alone 5 players to con into paying for a sub.

Now if it was "get 5 friends to play a trial demo" then that'd be another story entirely.....

* * * * *

As an aside, I couldn't agree more with what Captaine said of "Fair play for fair pay" and if they let this slide, it sets a nasty precedent for future "promotional offers" further tipping the balance out of fairness and isn't a company I (or others I suspect) would continue to support with their cash.

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Where is your proof of this? Please link to actual data that can show this is what will happen with STO.

This is what I will have to do. None of my friends PC game. I am in Law Enforcement and cannot solicit coworkers.

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Yeah, it's a real shame that at least SOME of the races haven't been added to the game for free...

At least SOME content is being added for free...

Honestly though, I'd rather they just add mid-range level content for free and give us free races and make us buy ship costumes, character costumes, bridge layouts and pay for access to things like the end game STFs...

However, I'm glad this thing is locked behind Cryptic getting more subs...I don't want everyone to easily get this ship. It's way too powerful for everyone to be able to get it. It's so powerful that unless this thing costs like 30 bucks EVERYONE would get it...

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I don't mind the ship being exclusive, I just think 5 referrals is excessive. WoW requires 1, and considering most MMO's follow their lead, I'm a bit surprised by this number. I'm also hoping that if this ship does have a cloaking device, more Federation ships will as well.


Maybe the new Defiant class will have one?

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I object to it simply because this is basically nothing more than a ~$200 cash grab designed to artificially inflate the subscriber numbers without actually increasing the number of players.

The majority of the people who get these rewards will be purchasing the accounts themselves. This is how this exact same scheme has worked on SOE games (not surprising, since Cryptic's CEO used to be in charge of this sort of thing at SOE).

That isn't exclusive to SOE. Even Blizzard gives out unique mounts for "referring a friend", and their numbers get artificially inflated as well for the same reasons (people buying additional accounts for the mount). In fact, they've just switched up the mount reward - meaning people who did this once will probably do it all over again.

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That isn't exclusive to SOE. Even Blizzard gives out unique mounts for "referring a friend", and their numbers get artificially inflated as well for the same reasons (people buying additional accounts for the mount). In fact, they've just switched up the mount reward - meaning people who did this once will probably do it all over again.

On the other hand, WoW just does it with mounts, and the unique feature of the new one just lets you play chauffeur for your friends. I usually can't resist the opportunity to verbally abuse WoW in some fashion, but I have to say that that's the single most brilliant recruiter reward I've ever heard of. An exclusive way to pew pew? Not so much.

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Well first, nice the Federation gets yet ANOTHER ship...why isnt there a list of ships to choose from...say some new Klingon ship the player might choose instead?
More and more it STILL seems to play out that the only faction Cryptic cares about is Federation.
If this mentality does not eventually change the game will die. It will have no long lasting sustainability as a viable MMO...especially not one where faction vs faction pvp was a theme.
I mean really, c'mon, this isnt rocket science here, you can't tell me theres NO ONE in the studios who thought "umm, guys, what about a ship for the OTHER Faction?"
Or did he get shushed and made to go fetch coffee and doughnuts while the rest of the staff planned?

As far as the Galaxy-X. This should be just a skin.....for the love of god..no cloak for the Federation please!
They don't need it and it would only make a bad thing worse. I'm not even going into the details on why this would be bad....theres entire forums awash with it.
Yes it would be a cool skin.....give it perhaps some other cool weapon (whatever that spinal mount looking cannon was) but leave the cloak out of it.

And at least TRY and PRETEND you care about the Ridgeheads........don't just offer the Galaxy-X, offer a new Klingon ship and have the player choose from ONE of the two please. At least make it look like you care for the boys on the other ide of the nuetral zone.