how many of you will end your subs if the build on tribble as it is goes live ?

[Archived Post]

Im absolutely mortified and horrified at the build on tribble. Either cryptic are trying to insult the player base or someone somewhere thought this would be fun. I strongly suggest testing the tribble build as you know what cryptic are like for pushing through changes we dont want but i fear for the future of the game with the build on tribble. I ask nicely here and now for a dev to come and explain what feedback demanded these changes on tribble ? i really am feeling down now that my favourite game will be no more soon :(

[Archived Post]

What changes specifically are you referring to that have you so upset? :confused:

[Archived Post]

What changes specifically are you referring to that have you so upset? :confused:
The ones that means he has to adapt?

What? It's the brutal truth.
And the changes aren't that nightmarish...

[Archived Post]

ive got no problem to adapting. My point is the changes to DPS and energy, changes to healing, changes to stacking etc. Just monitor TTS channel and a loot of people are unhappy. Go and test it yourself. It really is a horrible joke of a build that someone thought would be fun :(

[Archived Post]

I'm a LTS - so I'm here for the long haul, but in all honesty, if I werwe still month to month, this wouldn't cause me to canel my subscription.

For me, if anything the changes made the game EASIER for me (Captain 3 with a Tier 4 Engineering Cruiser). Before on Elite - I could never take out a Battleship of any kind on Elite without a MAJOR difficulty - and I'd still get dinged on 'Advanced'.

Now (and I've been doing a LOT of testing on Tribble yesterday night and today) - going for the Delta Volanis accolaade and all the instance ships I'm fighting are bbeing scaled to match my level) - 'Advanced' plays like 'Normal' did before these changes; and overall Elite is actually now a decent challenge, but still very doable. I guess it's a combo of the new weapon drain change that allows you to fire more beams more often, and the overall boost Cruisers got.

I also like some of the power synergy changes as now some powers that went on a short cooldown cooldown (like Boarding Party I and Engineering Team I used to be related in this way) no longer have that (In other words they modified the relaytionships beytween some BO powers).

YMMV - but again, PVE Space combat (for me) got overall easier. Since there IS an Elite setting, I'm fine with it, but I also guess it depends on yourShip Build, Equipment and BO Power selection. Like any MMO, when they do a system balancing overhaul (which is what this is); it means you may need to adjust your setup.

But overall, so far I like the changes; but if they decided not to go with them, I'd be okay with it too; that said, with a rebalance path like this, no matter what further tweaks they do, they aren't just goping to abandon the changes whole hog. Most of the time, changes of this type are done based on datamined info DIRECTLY from the Live server logs.

[Archived Post]

I've tested it... It is diffrent but it is no where near horrible...

Im a Lifer and I play a Liberated Borg in the game... I Will adapt... And keep my account with a happy drone at my controls.

[Archived Post]

id still kindly ask a dev to explain why these changes are needed ? it concerns me that bugs are not being fixed as higher priority is being given to these unwanted changes. Id appreciate more if cryptic worked on bugs and content. I really really dont see the problem with dps/energy/stacking :confused:

[Archived Post]

ive got no problem to adapting. My point is the changes to DPS and energy, changes to healing, changes to stacking etc. Just monitor TTS channel and a loot of people are unhappy. Go and test it yourself. It really is a horrible joke of a build that someone thought would be fun :(
A lot of people on the forum being unhappy is still not well... A lot.
Forum users are always the minority.

Tested a bit and had horror stories thrown in the face on msn.
It's just... A change nothing else.
Besides the increased zoom in the ship tailor far outweighs all the bad stuff in the patch notes. :D

[Archived Post]

i do think personally carriers/cruisers/battlecruisers will be dead and i can see everyone playing escort. Wheres the fun in that ? wheres the variety in this game ? :(

[Archived Post]

How can we be so quick to evaluate the new changes?
Give it at least a week of testing.

[Archived Post]

I don't mind the change, but I'm gonna have to change my build.

[Archived Post]

im not asking people to be quick but i am asking people to test it and give cryptic your feedback. I will carry on testing but first impression is not good at all.

[Archived Post]

i do think personally carriers/cruisers/battlecruisers will be dead and i can see everyone playing escort. Wheres the fun in that ? wheres the variety in this game ? :(

here's the Rub, isn't it?

The devs are trying to re-adjust balance, and the "Indestructables" are becomming "Destroyable"... and someone is whining.

you can't keep everyone happy/

[Archived Post]

id still kindly ask a dev to explain why these changes are needed ? it concerns me that bugs are not being fixed as higher priority is being given to these unwanted changes. Id appreciate more if cryptic worked on bugs and content. I really really dont see the problem with dps/energy/stacking :confused:

Sorry to ask this way (I truely am), but why would you need another explaination?

They are right there on the forums:

TRIBBLE Maintenance and Release Notes - May 14, 2010: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=157681

DPS Changes Incoming on Tribble (Their well founded explaination is here) http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=157666
Duration / Recharge Category System Incoming on Tribble http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=157669

I have found that it is a REAL good idea to read theese reports...

[Archived Post]

Oooh, darn. Just noticed the huge decrease for EPS.

22% lol.

[Archived Post]

here's the Rub, isn't it?

The devs are trying to re-adjust balance, and the "Indestructables" are becomming "Destroyable"... and someone is whining.

you can't keep everyone happy/

it is a well known fact the devs favour escorts and they arnt being hit as hard with the nerf bat compare to everything else

[Archived Post]

it is a well known fact the devs favour escorts and they arnt being hit as hard with the nerf bat compare to everything else
They did get hit hard when they changed how cannons worked.
But now that some time has passed... Not many are complaining.

[Archived Post]

Yeah its pretty bad. Has to be the worst across the board nerfing in any game.

Sometimes people should read or understand idioms or sayings such as "If it aint broke, dont fix it." What the build does is limit the amount of dps you can put out at lvl 45. This wouldnt be that bad except borg + nerf = impossible.

I just scratch my head and wonder where they came up with this travesty. People arent happy about it. It isnt anything what anyone asked.

Just leave the game mechanics alone. For all that is holy! Its not broken. You start messing with that and you will have problems else where and people leaving the game once it goes live.

I'd recommend they stop messing with mechanics. each time causes a problem. Something this big is going to be like a steam roller running over your head.

Its not about adapting. Its about leaving the game alone in areas that dont need to be fixed because every time cryptic messes with mechanics it breaks something else. You shouldnt be doing this level of nerf this soon. And you need to keep in mind that evey time you do this. You really ruin pve (which is why people play this game).

Maybe you should be hitting the borg with a nerf hammer instead of players. You know. Try to return a bit of fun to the game instead of something I do for an hour or less just to do dailies and log off.

[Archived Post]

Yeah its pretty bad. Has to be the worst across the board nerfing in any game.

>_>
<_<

NGE. *runs like hell*

[Archived Post]

Im absolutely mortified and horrified at the build on tribble. Either cryptic are trying to insult the player base or someone somewhere thought this would be fun. I strongly suggest testing the tribble build as you know what cryptic are like for pushing through changes we dont want but i fear for the future of the game with the build on tribble. I ask nicely here and now for a dev to come and explain what feedback demanded these changes on tribble ? i really am feeling down now that my favourite game will be no more soon :(

They haven't been live for 24 hours yet. Give them at least a chance to respond to the feedback and make at the very least ONE new patch for Tribble with SOME changes?

It's quite possible they rework a lot of this stuff. If we test it right and give them enough solid feedback and data to convince them.

They do realize that changing all the things they changed, with as extensive a list of power changes and cooldown changes ... that there are things they missed and this will need tweaking. They're re-tweaking the entirety of space combat. They know this. We know this.

[Archived Post]

>_>
<_<

NGE. *runs like hell*

I thought for sure you'd mention ...

Ehnancement Diversification.

Or even

Champions Online Launch Day nerfs.

Before NGE.

*Winks like hell. With some nudge nudge thrown in along the way.

[Archived Post]

Also what do you think a dps change is going to do to dps-less careers (Engineering and Science since the last nerf eliminated 40% of my science guys dps)?

Im not worried about my escort or Bird of Prey. its not that the nerf affects them that much. What it does is take fragile ships like the cruiser and a science vessel and make them useless. Especially in PVP. You affect DPS globally you affect Cruisers and Science the most. Science already struggles from having their main three offensive spells kicked in the groin.

Dont know why it was so hard for people to just hit Science Team when they were stopped by Viral matrix. Is it that hard to understand?

*sighs*

[Archived Post]

>_>
<_<

NGE. *runs like hell*

Well more people play SWG than STO. So I wouldnt say NGE was that bad. Cryptic cant keep shooting them selves in the foot before both are gangrene.

[Archived Post]

I thought for sure you'd mention ...

Ehnancement Diversification.

Or even

Champions Online Launch Day nerfs.

Before NGE.

*Winks like hell. With some nudge nudge thrown in along the way.
But none of those rewrote an entire game years after it had gone live.

*raspberries Superchum...p* :p

Well more people play SWG than STO. So I wouldnt say NGE was that bad. Cryptic cant keep shooting them selves in the foot before both are gangrene.
More players USED to play SWG than STO. ;)

[Archived Post]

What it does is take fragile ships like the cruiser and a science vessel
*sighs*

Fragile? Correct me if im wrong, but Escorts are by far THE most fragile ships in the game, with both less shield capacity and Hull than both Cruisers and Science Ships.

[Archived Post]

id still kindly ask a dev to explain why these changes are needed ?

Snix did. In a post he made over a month ago. Previewing what they were working on. It's a post I've quoted dozens of times since. I'm sure I can dig up a reference ... one sec ...

Ah, Here we Go ... (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2516848#post2516848)

Specifically:

We are looking into how to reduce the excessive damage that you are currently experiencing. Some of the elements already mentioned in this thread and others are being examined, such as:

- Energy damage buff console values and that most players stack as many as they can equip
- The amount of the narrow arc damage multiplier that gets applied to cannons
- Stacking of attack patterns and their buff, debuff, crit chance, and crit severity
- Appropriate weapon power drain when firing multiple energy weapons


We're getting closer to having more specific details and getting something up on to Tribble. This is a priority.

Thanks for your patience,
-snix

He made this post on April 6. The explanation being that they are looking at ways to reduce the excessive damage players were concerned about.

Also, many of the changes to powers are a direct response to threads like this one:

Out of whack powers and abilities (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=150945)

And some of the changes (like the one to Miracle Worker) Snix mentioned were in the works many months ago. And it's taken this long to get implemented.

EDIT: And one constant thing to keep in mind is ... this is all just part of the testing process. The devs want this stuff to be tested. And it can change. It's not live yet. It's a HUGE set of changes. There will be side-effects they did not consider. There will be changes made before it goes live. And most likely a LOT of changes will need to be made after it goes live. Just because of bugs. Right now ... the ship specific bonuses that each ship gets might be bugged. Glowing nacelles certainly are. If those go live ... that will need to be fixed post patch. So ... you know ... don't abandon ship just yet. (Or else you'll lock out some other powers with the new Global Cooldown! Hah!)

[Archived Post]

I play as an Engineer Captain in an Advanced Escort.

From reading the tribble patch notes I thought that cannons were gettng nerfed into oblivion.

I just played a few hours on Tribble. The changes aren't that bad. Different, but not bad. The biggest change is getting used to the new cooldowns.

Also, I think they fixed my bugged captain that hasn't gotten a relief (Aid the Planet) mission since the game first started, as I finally got one of those this morning.

Oh yeah and your deflector/scanner animation now correctly points in front of the ship instead of toward the middle of the map.

When in sector space, your warp engines glow in proportion to your warp speed. I guess it's too bright for a lot of people, but I like it. Although in my Advanced Escort, only the two top nacelles have the glow...

[Archived Post]

Also what do you think a dps change is going to do to dps-less careers (Engineering and Science since the last nerf eliminated 40% of my science guys dps)?

Im not worried about my escort or Bird of Prey. its not that the nerf affects them that much. What it does is take fragile ships like the cruiser and a science vessel and make them useless. Especially in PVP. You affect DPS globally you affect Cruisers and Science the most. Science already struggles from having their main three offensive spells kicked in the groin.

Dont know why it was so hard for people to just hit Science Team when they were stopped by Viral matrix. Is it that hard to understand?

*sighs*

I can only speak of PvE. But the ship that is the most fragile there - was before and still is - is the Escort. But it's still doing fine. You will certainly need to make some adjustments. For all ships. Somene complained on the TTS chat that his cruiser had trouble staying alive - he was running a build that focused on Reverse Shield Polarity. With the new cooldowns, you can't chain them. Ever. What you can do is use Reverse Shield Polarity and Extend Shields - not starting at the same time, but in succession. This will make Cruisers capable of tanking and supporting. It might introduce undesired consequences, like 3-4 Cruisers becoming indestructable due to teamwork.

But hey, I'd rather have things indestructible due to to teamwork than due to just picking the same ability 3-5 times. And of course, such a change would just invite using different powers that are often ignored now - Tractor Beam Repulsor and Photonic Shockwave come to mind - keep those supporters apart so t hey can't support each other.

[Archived Post]

I find that the change to me flying my beam-rigged Advanced Escort has a minimal impact.
In fact rather an impact for the better since i can now replace the EPS console with something more useful and not worry about weapons power running out.
But otherwise i still play exactly the same except for slightly lower DPS and APO being a really good defensive buff.

[Archived Post]

ive tested the changes on tribble and i have to agree it will be the end of the road for me if this goes live and i will regret having bought my lifetime sub. Cryptic cant keep giving in one hand and taking in the other. Although the game has only been out a couple of months you cant keep changing basic gameplay mechanics. This will break combat completely and effectively its a kick in the nuts for science and cruisers. Not everyone loves escorts like you cryptic so have some respect for your paying customers maybe and dont force us to play escort :mad:

[Archived Post]

So cruiser captains say cruisers are ruined, science captains say science is ruined and escort captains say escorts have been ruined.

If everybody is ruined, nerfed and otherwise doomed, then it must be balanced. You all seem equally ticked off.

:D

[Archived Post]

there are several threads on this and here is one
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2673282#post2673282

here are just a few notes from MN3




I've spotted some heavy changes to several science abilities, some are:

- Photonic fleet cooldown reduced from 15m to 5m. This is a great change since the cooldown was way to long.
- Science team "reduce damage to shields" effect reduced from 30 sec. to 15. Same cooldown and shield increase.
- Hazard Emitters effect reduced from 32 sec. to 27, but more healing done in that time. Cooldown doubled (with full points in it, from 45 sec. to 1 minute 30)
- Starship dampening field, cooldown increased from 1.15 to 4 minutes, effect increased from 53% resistant to 103% (same effect time)
- Tyken's rift (specced) - cooldown increased from 1 min. to 1.30. Increased effect from 12 sec. to 15 sec. Decreased drain from -61 after two seconds. to -21 after 2 sec. AUX level 65.
- TSS I - power level drain increased from -21 to -29, same cooldown.
- Jam targeting sensors effect decreased (about 10% from 11 sec. to 9.9, same cooldown)
- Tractor beam cooldown reduced from 45 sec. to 30 sec.
- Viral Matrix II (no points in it) effect the same (disable subsystem 6.4 seconds), cooldown increased from 1.40 to 2.50.
- SNB, no changes spotted so far.
- Energy siphon (no points in it), cooldown doubled from 1.25 to 2.50 minutes. Same effect.
- Mask energy signature, no changes.
- Charged particle burst - Cooldown increased from 1.10 to 1.25. Disable cloaking reduced from 15 sec. to 8 sec.
Will update this thread after finding more changes.

Not really science related, but overall damage has been decreased (weapon power setting at 100) : my dual disruptor bank went from 814dps to 712. Quantum torpedo from 543 to 513dps.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by MN3 : Today at 05:17 AM.


and there are more like the sensor scan now puts a cooldown on jam sensors... and theres more...

This reallly blows especially the last line about dropping dps on sci even more..... why are the science guys the ba star d kids of the universe?


im just about over doing btran every day and stf's that require weeks to do and sometimes for no drops ....forced into being just a healer with no fun in doing any damage... its like they took our machine gun away and gave us a bb gun, and now they are taking that away and giving us a slingshot....

so not only did most of our consoles and sci abilities get nerfed now our already limited firepower is nerfed even more...??? jesus starfleet why even build a science vessel if it has no science abilities to make up for the lack of firepower.... im just baffeled at this.... Thats what science is for isnt it? they do science f ing things that are just not capable on a gunship..... thats why its called a science ship...

cryptic what the hell are you people thinking...???????? After some fleet members tried this out last night on tribble for a few hours we all decided if this goes live cryptic can suck on my big "cacellation notification".... I said months ago the nerfing will water the game down to nothing and people will jump ship, pun intended. I just never expected it to be so gd dam fast.

[Archived Post]

i do think personally carriers/cruisers/battlecruisers will be dead and i can see everyone playing escort. Wheres the fun in that ? wheres the variety in this game ? :(

Um, I AM a Cruiser captain, and as I posted here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=2672942#post2672942); if anything, thiis has made the game easier for Cruisers. And honesstly, given that in the time I played on Tribble in the last 3 days there's only about 18-24 people on TOTAL - as usual we have a loyt of folk just reading the patch notes and getting out calculators; rather than PLAYING on Tribble and seeing for themselves.
^^^
(and FYI - This makes STO just as much an MMO as the others as this is the norm - people con't bother to try the changes in context - they just go "OMG! My current uber build wo't work anymore." Change is a fact of life in MMOs and the first few months of ANY MMO, you see changes like this more often then not.)

Also, I yet to experience my Captain powers experiencing any 'imposed cooldowns' when I fire off BO certain BO powers (some folks were claiming this - but I've yet to experience it on my Captain 3 that I have on Tribble atm).

Now, I'm actually not swayed either way honestly - I was fine with the way Space Combat is now, but I don't see the changes as 'game breaking' either; but as usual, there's more Hyperbole than fact in a lot of the 'rage' posts. But again, par foor the course with any MMO.

[Archived Post]

id still kindly ask a dev to explain why these changes are needed ? it concerns me that bugs are not being fixed as higher priority is being given to these unwanted changes. Id appreciate more if cryptic worked on bugs and content. I really really dont see the problem with dps/energy/stacking :confused:
As the situation is right now, a Tier 2 Gunboat can destroy a Klingon Battleship in a single strafe attack by stacking consoles and abilities. Now I admit its fun to do this, but I would not want my Cruiser character to be subject to such abuse. And the way thing should work, there should be no way a Gunboat could take out a Battleship in a single strafe... Two or three gunboats working together maybe, but not a lone Gunboat

[Archived Post]

The changes actually are pretty good, although a few things seem whacked. But in general burst damage is reduced, (not so much DPS), which addresses the biggest current issue in PvP.
And cooldowns are basically more rational, while the silly 'bring 5 RSPs' strategies are unworkable now.

[Archived Post]

So cruiser captains say cruisers are ruined, science captains say science is ruined and escort captains say escorts have been ruined.

If everybody is ruined, nerfed and otherwise doomed, then it must be balanced. You all seem equally ticked off.

:D

Not yet, they still haven't hit us runabout guys, but then again, if they make us any weaker, we'd explode on warp.

[Archived Post]

it is a well known fact the devs favour escorts and they arnt being hit as hard with the nerf bat compare to everything else

they arent? huh..

all target system skills will have a 1m cooldown and only 20 seconds of activity as opposed to the 30/30 they have currently.

all single target skills (overload, crf, hyt) as well as dispersal patterns will have 45 second cooldowns.

on the tac officer side of things, FOMM will now have a 3 min cooldown (tripling the current one it has) and only last 30 seconds (half of what it currently is), tac initiative will only last 30 seconds opposed to the current 45, and if i read it right, its gonna be impossible to have more than one attack pattern active.

yeah... i think its safe to say that escorts get hit just as hard as the others.

[Archived Post]

I already did.

There are so many areas where they could be improving the game (try ground combat, please) and instead they're tinkering with the one aspect that's actually fun.

I'm sure they mean well, but honestly I have better ways to spend time and money than waiting to see when or if they'll ever get their stuff together.

[Archived Post]

Yeah its pretty bad. Has to be the worst across the board nerfing in any game.
while i cant comment on the rest of your post i can comment on this ... HELLO .. Mcfly ... did you perhaps not play SWG ? THAT has the honor of worst nerf hammer concussion ever and will never lose that title

im gonna have to quote Cool runnings on this one

People always afraid of whats different

Cryptic own the servers the code the game ... they can do what they like with it ... we can decide not to play but seriously anyone who drops their sub for this all i can say is .. "so long bubye too bad so sad .. we didnt need your fly by night fandom anyways "

in ten years time this so called travesty will be a distant memory .. unlamented except by those who rage quit rather than overcoming the Impossible to become mighty !

[Archived Post]

true darias people will still play this because it carries the star trek ip not because its a fun game to play. A lot of people are annoyed with the constant nerfing of the game and quite rightly so. I too feel cryptic is wasting time instead of fixing bugs and adding content. These changes are not needed and i can honestly say that across all the classes and different types of ship that i use theres nothing wrong with combat as it is. Id love to know sniz thinking as to why this really is needed. People pay to play the game and they are entitled to end subs and i wouldnt blame them. If cryptic then change the game mechanics all over again in 6 months time wouldnt you too be a little ****ed off ?

[Archived Post]

dude it won't amke you suck, everybody else is affected too, its still possible to own people! Its CHANGE not the end or revolutionary or anything.

[Archived Post]

I've exploded all over the forums about this. I havent been playing since sunday. No point. Cryptic does little to attempt to understand the games and the mmo market. Not going to bother, just not play.

In related news. Star Trek Online is being pulled from the shelves of local Gamestops. The one I would shop at the most had 7 prepaid preordered collectors editions that were either not picked up or returned. They are sitting in a box in the back keeping Aquaman and the 3 month Age of Conan Subscription cards (they keep trying to convince me to buy them for $10) company. They even have a copy of the 1984 smash hit sensation for the Atari 2600 "E.T." which I gave them on the box. Its attached to the box with a cross bow bolt.

You also cant find STO on the shelves at both local walmarts and targets. The tags arent even on the shelf. They still have Star Wars Galaxies at all three locations and at the Gamestop stores though. For some strange odd reason.

[Archived Post]

A lot of people on the forum being unhappy is still not well... A lot.
Forum users are always the minority.

That is pure BS.

Just because a minority of players even visit the forums does not mean that their opinion should be taken as a minority. In the real world governments count every hand written letter sent to an official as 10,000 citizens of that country. They don't say, Very few citizens even write letters so who cares what the few that do think. As far as gaming companies go they should count every unhappy forum member as a percentage of unhappy players in total. They shouldn't just disregard them as you would.

Just because you can't read the non-forum masses feelings on things doesn't mean they aren't as unhappy as many forum goers are.

Not saying that I am against the changes, just that I am against this line of thinking about forum goers.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

I think so...

[Archived Post]

Yes, I'm horribly horrified and mortified.....at a game.

[Archived Post]

Well I have cancelled but that is only because I got bored. I bought the Collector's Edition at half off, played two weeks with a friend who had pre-ordered the game, maxed out my char, dabbled with the end-game stuff and Klingon char, and now, there's nothing left. And I've only used up the first 30 free days. Hopefully these changes are for the better and I can try it out again a few months down the line when a lot, lot more has been added, but for right now I'm done with it.

[Archived Post]

Hello Captains,

This thread is being closed. Please keep discussions regarding builds on Tribble in the forums for Tribble. Also, please remember that the Star Fleet Academy Section of the forums is a place for new users to post questions which may be commonly asked . This is not a place for polling users about how many people plan to leave Star Trek Online if a build that is being tested goes live.

Thank you,

Q