Alternatives for turning (my arms hurt)

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I have played a lot of different computer games, including several mmos and several star trek games (SFC ftw!). The unique aspects of movement in this game though have caused me pain and numbness in my arms, especially the muscles on the top of my arm.

In most mmos, you fight while standing still for the most part. and movement from place to place usually has an auto-run option. In space though, the unique 3-d movement requires constant pressure on a key for turning. In combat, that is often critical to staying on the shield arc that you have whittled down.

Does anyone have any alternatives to holding down the WASD keys for turning? Currently I alternate between using the mouse (holding down both mouse buttons to turn the direction the camera is looking) and the keyboard for turning, but all that does is make it so that both arms hurt. Having to keep constant pressure is really causing me a lot of problems.

I am a programmer, so I am on a computer all day long. I am enjoying this game, but I cannot put my job at risk to play it. Any alternatives would be greatly appreciated!

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this is your body saying that you play the game to much to long.

i sometimes have that when holding on to my Xbox 360 Gamepad to long (last time i had that was with Test Drive Unlimted, i realy played that >8hrs a day).

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I have played a lot of different computer games, including several mmos and several star trek games (SFC ftw!). The unique aspects of movement in this game though have caused me pain and numbness in my arms, especially the muscles on the top of my arm.

In most mmos, you fight while standing still for the most part. and movement from place to place usually has an auto-run option. In space though, the unique 3-d movement requires constant pressure on a key for turning. In combat, that is often critical to staying on the shield arc that you have whittled down.

Does anyone have any alternatives to holding down the WASD keys for turning? Currently I alternate between using the mouse (holding down both mouse buttons to turn the direction the camera is looking) and the keyboard for turning, but all that does is make it so that both arms hurt. Having to keep constant pressure is really causing me a lot of problems.

I am a programmer, so I am on a computer all day long. I am enjoying this game, but I cannot put my job at risk to play it. Any alternatives would be greatly appreciated!

Logitech G13 is your friend.... Use your left thumb.

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I think if you hold down both mouse buttons your ship will turn with the mouse cursor...

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This sounds like the oldest Doctor joke in the world...

"Doctor my arms hurt when I play this STO video game, what should I do?"

Doctor says "Stop playing that game."

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Perhaps a limited on the number of hours you are playing in one sitting?

What is your life beyone STO....???

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Is there not joystick/gamepad support for STO?

Maybe that would make it a little easier for you.



Just a suggestion...:D

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Arm exercises would help. Have you seen a doctor to see if you have carpal tunnel, could explain the pain? Honestly the pain is not normal as most people seem to be pointing to. I too work on computers all day (data engineer) and even during long play sessions my arms don't hurt. Are you keeping your arms elevated, resting them on the desk, etc? Could be a combination of things really, but I don't think the control scheme is the correct answer.

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Well, first of all, it was basically over the course of a week that this became a problem. 3 or 4 days during that week I had sessions that were about an hour each more or less. That was it. So it isn't like I was doing 8 hours in a single sitting. I have had sessions before though where I would play other games for way too long (Guild Wars back when they released Nightfall for example) and never had these kinds of issues. There wasn't the need for constant pressure on a single key or set of keys, or pair of mouse buttons.

I have an ergonomic keyboard, follow all the recommended things for keeping arms at neutral positions, etc. as well, so it's not like I have horrible posture when sitting down to play. I am sure that there are some folks out there who have played marathon sessions. I would like to know how they do it. I started to think that maybe the issue was that I was doing something wrong in my gameplay, or possibly I needed to figure out a different strategy when engaging.

I am quite active irl as well. My gaming is during the evenings on weeknights. Most weekends I am out paintballing, fishing, camping, etc... Rarely do I play computer games on weekends, especially during the summer. And rarely do I play longer than 2 hours on a weeknight, and even then it is split between multiple games. Maybe some arm exercises would help, but never have I encountered a game before that the movement required such constant pressure on keys or mouse buttons.

Yeah - Doc, it hurts when I do that.
Don't do that

That is exactly what I am trying to do - avoid the constant presure on keys or mouse buttons while still being able to enjoy this game at least a little. Practical advice is what I was looking for. The suggestion of a different mouse is good, the thumb button might help - but is there a toggle maybe for mouse movement where I wouldn't have to hold it down for that?

In practical terms, has anyone used a gamepad / joystick? Have you found that it works pretty well? Again, it's not like I was playing marathon sessions; I have been a lifetime subscriber since beta and I haven't even gotten a character past Lt. yet. This is just with limited gameplay on set of evenings where I played for more than 15 minutes at a time (my limit before due to insane work schedule).

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Really, if that little amount of pressure is causing you pain you might want to think about turning off the computer and exercising once in a while (paint balling is not exercising your arm muscles). Seriously.

As for alternatives, you can always go the Homer Simpson method and buy one of those bobbing birds to push the keys for you.

:cool:

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In practical terms, has anyone used a gamepad / joystick? Have you found that it works pretty well? Again, it's not like I was playing marathon sessions; I have been a lifetime subscriber since beta and I haven't even gotten a character past Lt. yet. This is just with limited gameplay on set of evenings where I played for more than 15 minutes at a time (my limit before due to insane work schedule).

You already said you're a programmer, so I would think it's safe to assume that you spend many hours in front of a computer BEFORE you even take gaming into account. Also, what type of pain and where in your arms are you feeling this? Although this is likely to be strain on your carpal tunnel, it could be something else, possibly muscle-related.

Although I'm not currently using a gamepad, there have been threads about using Xbox 360 controllers for control input, although I don't believe it's fully supported. Also I'd check into something like this Logitech G13 (http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/5123) gameboard. I used to play with a Nostromo n50 (yeah, the original one) with previous MMOs and it was great, although I'm not using it anymore b/c 1) it's a bit out of date and 2) I no longer have the desktop real estate for it since I'm no longer playing on a desk

(I'm playing on a couch with a lapboard/tray with just enough room for my trackball, with the game running on my TV in the living room. It's kinda hard to go back to the desk after playing STO on the big screen)

And yes, I'm one of those weird trackball guys. There are some really nice mice out there (when I'm using a mouse I love my Logitech MX Revolution), but I mostly prefer to control the pointer/camera with thumb movement. I've been thinking of trying to make my own pistol-gripped thumb trackball controller that would be a little more ergonomic than lying your wrists face-down on a table or desk-like surface, maybe like a Wii-chuck controller with more buttons; unless I find something sooner. Maybe make a version to use in each hand, with more keyboard controls assigned to the left controller and the mouse controls assigned to the right controller.

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I've had similar problems: after decades of computer use and poor posture while reading, I developed RSI in my wrist, which was complicated by a pinched nerve in the neck.

It took lots of expensive tests and several months of physical therapy to find a solution, so here are a few things I've learned:

1. Use a wrist brace- not those little cloth things, but a true wraparound brace with hard plastic or metal to keep the wrist absolutely straight. It really makes a big difference.

2. Consider alternative input methods, such as trackballs, joysticks, or some kind of gamepad such as the Belkin n52. You may get used to them after a while, or they may not be your cup of tea. I absolutely love my n52, but it took quite a while to get used to it.

3. Try reversing your method- I turn with the mouse in my right hand and use the left hand to hit key combos for weapons, shields, and abilities, either mapped to my n52 or directly on the keyboard.

4. Relax. Seriously, a lot of the stress you put on your hands and arms comes from pushing keys too hard or gripping the mouse too tightly. It's hard to notice, but pay attention to it the next time you're in the grip of a heated battle. A light touch is just as effective.

5. Exercise the right muscles. Pumping iron won't help a bit, since those are not the same muscles that are affected. A physical therapist would give you a squeeze ball, or better, silly putty (seriously), and have you knead it with your fingers every day. If it's the shoulders or neck, she would give you a resistance band (just a large piece of stretchy rubber) and have you do some resistance training.

6. Take a break. About five minutes every hour works for me.

7. Consider consulting a physical therapist. He or she will be able to show you certain stretches and exercises that really make a difference if you stick to them.

Hope this helps- it did miracles for me!

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If you are not playing long durations and you are taking frequent breaks and still having these problems then you probably need to start exercising and strengthening the parts of your body that are giving you problems.

You are weak and your pain is weakness leaving the body!

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Hi,

I find the keyboard-turning in space not working well myself. Especially when mixing keyboard and mouse turning, and keeping the turn-key pressed, at some time it will stop turning. Same I cannot keep the down-arrow for transfer-to-aft-shield working. Somehow the keypress stops registering in game. But I had a similar issue with an other game, too. Could be my old PS2 keyboard though. Time to get a new keyboard. :confused: :cool:

Personally I find mouse-press turning working much better in space combat than the keys. I do use a trackball (thumb turns the ball), so I do not have to move the mouse that much. A warning for those who ponder getting a trackball: if you never used such a mouse before you will get a cramp in your thumb the first couple days, due to using never-before-used-muxcles. :D
Should be fine after a week though.

Regards,
Lu


PS: nice posting by joe_blue 2 postings up. :)

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If you have access to a gym, try and do wrist curls combined with reverse curls. Both focus on strengthening your forearms. Otherwise you can buy things for ZAR80 (so that would be equivalent of ~$11) that are like resistent stress balls. Squeezing those will strenghten your forearms quickly as well....

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In most mmos, you fight while standing still for the most part. and movement from place to place usually has an auto-run option...If constant movement bothers you, then you better stay away from FPS games.

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After a plethora of good bad and downright stupid suggestions, here's one that maybe wasn't offered yet - you can bind ship turning to just the left or right mouse button. It considerably eases on the finger and forearm stress over the long playing hours.
I haven't had any problems with arm pain, however I found it much more convenient to turn with right button press and move the camera with left. It's especially useful for escort pilots, where all u have to do is keep the target in the middle of the screen (aside from pressing like million of other ability-keys).

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PS: nice posting by joe_blue 2 postings up. :)

Thanks!

If you have access to a gym, try and do wrist curls combined with reverse curls. Both focus on strengthening your forearms. Otherwise you can buy things for ZAR80 (so that would be equivalent of ~$11) that are like resistent stress balls. Squeezing those will strenghten your forearms quickly as well....

Just a note: if you've developed an RSI or nerve injury, curls will do absolutely nothing for you, because the muscles that curls build are not the muscles that need to be developed. Squeezing stress balls is better, but even better than that is something (like the putty I mentioned above) that allows you to exercise individual fingers.

After a plethora of good bad and downright stupid suggestions, here's one that maybe wasn't offered yet - you can bind ship turning to just the left or right mouse button. It considerably eases on the finger and forearm stress over the long playing hours.
None of these suggestions are downright stupid- why be a jerk about it? Anyway, binding actions to the mouse button (as well as other keys) is a good idea.

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Assign WASD to the thumbstick on a gamepad/gameboard. Really nice.

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Really, if that little amount of pressure is causing you pain you might want to think about turning off the computer and exercising once in a while (paint balling is not exercising your arm muscles). Seriously.

As for alternatives, you can always go the Homer Simpson method and buy one of those bobbing birds to push the keys for you.

:cool:



i almost sure that getting exersice tips was not on his mind.
but as he is a programmer he do use the keyboard at work for some times more then 8 to 16 hours and then coming home playing could do that even to the world strongest man as there is problem with every job sitting in i with a keyboard all day is taxing to most upper body, (example shoulders arms and so on)

but is there no option to make a macro or things like this. i have no idea about what cryptic allows or what it they do not allow

this was not ment to be as an insult.

i hope i could get my point across with out to bad english not my native languese.

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G13, i would also reccomend one of these: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/keyboards/keyboard/devices/5123

no more bashing wasd, just steer with the little thumb stick.

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And now for an actually helpful reply:

Check out : Basic Key Binds and Command List (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=66110)

Especially this part:

Example:
/Bind SHIFT + A ++Turnleft

Result:
On hitting the “SHIFT + A” key, your character starts turning left, even after release of the key.
The operator “++” turns the command On and keeps it turned on, like having the key continuously pressed . Hitting other direction key's will not cancel it except for an other turn left command or by hitting the key again. With this you can create a toggle function like an auto run/turn key.

I´m trying this out too, as the game gave me a really nice carpal tunnel attack in my left "WASD" hand.

As a general tip, really check out the "Looking for STO game info? (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=118581)" sticky in this board.

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And now for an actually helpful reply:

Thanks! Nobody else here could offer anything worthwhile.

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Now I only have to make it work somehow.
Didn´t manage it just typing it into chat. :/

Really thinking of getting out the old XBox(no stinkin 3 or 6 or 0 ;) ) controllers.

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It's hard to do, I had the same problem, but try and not push the buttons so hard. It doesn't help. Relaxation exercises would help more than muscular exercises.

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You gotta love all thos people who basically projected themselves onto you and told you that what you needed was exercise...

Try this - http://www.xkeys.com/xkeys/xkfoot.php its expensive but is the best solution to the problem

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I suggest more exercise, Also if playing a game hurts your arms lol, I suggest working on your upper body strength.

Epic thread

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You gotta love all thos people who basically projected themselves onto you and told you that what you needed was exercise...

You gotta love those people who reveal how little they know when they tell you that all your problems can be solved by one product.

A combination of exercise, changing your habits, and changing your input methods is the only way to deal with this.