We're Evaluating Your Feedback

[Archived Post]

Bonus Items Into the C-Store thread was closed and unstickied.

It's funny how they say "we're evaluating the feedback" and then go ahead and release the patch with their C-Store Mega Update before they could possibly finish evaluating everything said. And then the thread is just summarily closed and unstickied in the hopes that it would be buried in the confusion?

We're not morons, Cryptic. And we have long memories. This betrayal will not be forgotten and there is nothing you can do to redeem yourselves.

And btw, Mega update? Mega? Seriously? You made the Caitians and changed a few colors on Bird of Prey Bridge Pack I in order to make II. Without the exclusive items that were already in the game there is nothing Mega about that update. In fact, even with them, there is nothing Mega about it. You're pumping up the idjits like an announcer at a monster truck rally and you don't have anything half as kool.

Do not bother trolling or flaming this post. I will not respond to your ire.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

Why'd you change your avatar? Your other one was so much more striking.

[Archived Post]

Why'd you change your avatar? Your other one was so much more striking.
Yeah it was.

[Archived Post]

What's an "idjut"?!?!?

:p

[Archived Post]

Bonus Items Into the C-Store thread was closed and unstickied.

It's funny how they say "we're evaluating the feedback" and then go ahead and release the patch with their C-Store Mega Update before they could possibly finish evaluating everything said. And then the thread is just summarily closed and unstickied in the hopes that it would be buried in the confusion?

We're not morons, Cryptic. And we have long memories. This betrayal will not be forgotten and there is nothing you can do to redeem yourselves.

And btw, Mega update? Mega? Seriously? You made the Caitians and changed a few colors on Bird of Prey Bridge Pack I in order to make II. Without the exclusive items that were already in the game there is nothing Mega about that update. In fact, even with them, there is nothing Mega about it. You're pumping up the idjits like an announcer at a monster truck rally and you don't have anything half as kool.
.



"This thread has been closed. If you have any further feedback, please post it in the C-Store Feedback Forum. "

this what GMTiyshen said. he said to leave feed back in the right place, the C-store section of the forums, this is not the first time that it has happened, and it is still on page three. it was easy to find.

as for saying they can't redeem themselves. I've heard that one before. *cough* salegate * and I still want to see how they betrayed anyone. please give me your reason for being betrayed. ( you started to give it yesterday, but it got clouded out by the other posters )

I agree it wasn't much of a mega patch. nothing mega about it.

and why did you change your avatar? it looked good before.

[Archived Post]

Why'd you change your avatar? Your other one was so much more striking.

Agree. I alway prefer to know where people stand. That way it's easier to tell if their opinions are more or less biased. :cool:

[Archived Post]

I too, believe Cryptic should have waited. The Threadanaught was up for less then a week when the changes to the C-Store went live. I really don't think several days is enough time for a decision of that magnitude.

[Archived Post]

I too, believe Cryptic should have waited. The Threadanaught was up for less then a week when the changes to the C-Store went live. I really don't think several days is enough time for a decision of that magnitude.

The decision was set in stone before it was ever posted. The threadnaught existed to contain feedback.

[Archived Post]

The thread was closed by a different GM instead of the usual bunch of reps/mods here. They're probably pulling straws at Cryptic to see which GM takes the heat when they lock the next thread. ;) I don't blame them. I've see far more restrictive/compulsive forum moderation over at SWTOR.

But yes, OP, I still agree with you about the Cryptic being two-faced. Other companies do the same sometimes, but they do so with more more tact and grace than Cryptic. It seems Cryptic marketing has been putting their foot in their mouths ever since CO went beta. But I see the cause of that as more of a disconnect between marketing, the development team, and the community team more than anything else.

[Archived Post]

The threadnaught existed to contain feedback.

Now THIS has Trek potential.

The engineers reported to Lt. Commander Destra that the C-Store event was going to consume the forums. Captain Zinc had them come up with a solution. The Threadnaught, with a few minor changes to its subspace frequency, was put in place to contain the feedback! And when the crisis was abated ... they moved the threadnaught into the subspace rift and flew away.

I like this. A lot.

:)

[Archived Post]

Do not bother trolling or flaming this post. I will not respond to your ire.

btw Blackavaar. You say Cryptic have broken their "word".

Didn't You yesterday post this ???

I'm done here.

I'm going to update my Canon Color Guide...bla bla bla...

I might see you all in game once in a while (I'm not canceling my sub) but I will not bother with the boards any longer...bla bla bla...Who cares about integrity, right?

:cool:

Then someone gave You a word of advice:

First rule of life: never say never. :)

Your reply was:

NEVER!!!! NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!

Clear enough for you?

:cool:

Does that mean You are breaking Your "word" on staying away from the forums ??? Did You give Your "word" to stay away ???

I know Your never reply was reffering to not trusting Cryptic in the future but it was Your way of showing that once You have said something You stand by it and dont break it. However You see, You did come back to the forums although You said You wouldn't.

Not meant to taunt or insult You. Just an observation and two questions. You see it can be hard to keep a "word" sometimes if it acctually was a "word" that as given and sometimes maybe one isnt so clear to others after all. It's easy to be missunderstood. ;)

Nothing like a good drama. *grabs Pop-corns* or acctually *Pepper Chips* this time.

The evening is still young, so I look forward to many hours yet of C-Store entertainment/drama.

[Archived Post]

Agree. I alway prefer to know where people stand. That way it's easier to tell if their opinions are more or less biased. :cool:

Note: Most people know that I was a avid Cryptic Fan before all of this. But this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm done arguing in their favor. I'm done saying that we need to give them time. I'm done buying what they are selling. I'm done, period.

The betrayal was the fact that they swore up and down that the Mirror Universe uniforms would remain exclusive to that deal. I don't care if you quote Terms and Conditions and I don't care if the only thread that can be found where this was said was by a dev that has since been dismissed. They said it. And now everyone and their grandmother is wearing my exclusive uniform. No more exclusive in that is there?

They had options they could have taken rather then just taking what was given as exclusives and putting them up for the quick buck. But they couldn't bother to take the time to create the Captain's Mirror Universe uniform. They'll add that in later and charge everyone even more for it.

And the most disturbing thing about this is it is all one sided. They took away the CO LTS exclusive but said that the Liberated Borg will never be offered. They've also said that their recruiting items won't be offered on the C-Store. So, you see. If you support Cryptic as a company then STO doesn't really give a damn. But if you support STO specifically they do.

But then of course 2 months from now they'll forget all about those promises too, and the Galaxy-X will be offered up on the C-Store in the Ultra Mega Superfralacagalistic C-Store update along with the Holo-Tribble and Holo-BOff and all of the other exclusives that haven't been offered up to the money gods yet.

No integrity. No honor. Just money. Go Cryptic go.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

The evening is still young, so I look forward to many hours yet of C-Store entertainment/drama.

Is that what passes for content these days in STO? And I look forward to many hours of *** entertainment tonight. But hey, whatever floats your boat. ;)

[Archived Post]

Is that what passes for content these days at STO? And I look forward to many hours of *** entertainment tonight. But hey, whatever floats your boat. ;)

Eheh! Yeah I have a sad life don't I. :D

[Archived Post]

btw Blackavaar. You say Cryptic have broken their "word".

Didn't You yesterday post this ???



Then someone gave You a word of advice:



Your reply was:



Does that mean You are breaking Your "word" on staying away from the forums ??? Did You give Your "word" to stay away ???

Not meant to taunt or insult You. Just an observation and two questions. You see it can be hard to keep a "word" sometimes if it acctually was a "word" that as given and sometimes maybe one isnt so clear to others after all. It's easy to be missunderstood. ;)

Nothing like a good drama. *grabs Pop-corns* or acctually *Pepper Chips* this time.

The evening is still young, so I look forward to many hours yet of C-Store entertainment/drama.

I haven't finished the update to my Canon Color Guide yet. And I won't technically be able to finish that until the All Good Things uniform is available to me about a month from now. I promised people I would do those and I am a man of my word. Regardless of how I feel about the game or the company I will keep my word.

Trust me as soon as those are done, I am out of here.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

And voila! My old avatar is back!

Enjoy!

:cool:

[Archived Post]

And voila! My old avatar is back!

Enjoy!

:cool:

I must admit I missed it. ;)

And kudos for honoring your word. Many people enjoy your guides and will continue to do so.

[Archived Post]

Trust me as soon as those are done, I am out of here.

:cool:

Sorry to hear that. Was hoping You would see another side of it all and simply realize there are more important stuff in life to get all worked up about and stay and play with the rest of us.

[Archived Post]

Note: Most people know that I was a avid Cryptic Fan before all of this. But this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm done arguing in their favor. I'm done saying that we need to give them time. I'm done buying what they are selling. I'm done, period.

The betrayal was the fact that they swore up and down that the Mirror Universe uniforms would remain exclusive to that deal. I don't care if you quote Terms and Conditions and I don't care if the only thread that can be found where this was said was by a dev that has since been dismissed. They said it. And now everyone and their grandmother is wearing my exclusive uniform. No more exclusive in that is there?

They had options they could have taken rather then just taking what was given as exclusives and putting them up for the quick buck. But they couldn't bother to take the time to create the Captain's Mirror Universe uniform. They'll add that in later and charge everyone even more for it.

And the most disturbing thing about this is it is all one sided. They took away the CO LTS exclusive but said that the Liberated Borg will never be offered. They've also said that their recruiting items won't be offered on the C-Store. So, you see. If you support Cryptic as a company then STO doesn't really give a damn. But if you support STO specifically they do.

But then of course 2 months from now they'll forget all about those promises too, and the Galaxy-X will be offered up on the C-Store in the Ultra Mega Superfralacagalistic C-Store update along with the Holo-Tribble and Holo-BOff and all of the other exclusives that haven't been offered up to the money gods yet.

No integrity. No honor. Just money. Go Cryptic go.

:cool:

You sir... are my hero.

Amen

[Archived Post]

I think you have a problem with understanding.

Evaluating.

Cryptic Evaluated the feedback, what are the outcomes of the possible scenarios.

A. Don't sell "exclusive" items in the c-store.
1. People without bonuses complain in the forums.

B. Sell "exclusive" items in the c-store.
1. People who have bonuses before complain in the forums.
2. People without the bonuses pay money to cryptic.

OK, so using mathematics I will evaluate which of these options is better for cryptic, and really in the long run better for you (if you intend to continue playing the game for reasons other than to run around saying "nyuh nyuh nyuh look what I have and you don't" of course that is what MMOs are for some people)

[Archived Post]

And voila! My old avatar is back!

Enjoy!

:cool:

It's a cool avatar.

In regards to this thread ... feedback is feedback. I may not agree with your stance on the issue, but you are very much welcome to continue to ask Cryptic the questions you are asking. And maybe they'll respond. Maybe they'll even come up with some sort of olive branch to extend to the customers they made unhappy with this move.

The only way to find out is to keep pressing them for things.

The one danger is ... forum mods might start moving or combining or locking threads they feel are redundant.

That happens a lot around here. So just be prepared.

But overall ... if this feedback is something really important to you ... keep at it. I think, even with all of the emotional backlash to this or other past decisions they've made ... the company itself shows they are far more willing to listen to and react to their fans/customers desires.

I base this off of my experiences with other gaming companies. I think Cryptic, even when they make decisions that anger their players ... are more flexible and communicate more than ... say ... Blizzard or Sony.

So even if I disagree completely with your position ... I still wish you luck in giving your feedback and on your quest for some sort of recognition or olive branch or "compensation" for the frustration they caused you.

[Archived Post]

Note:

The betrayal was the fact that they swore up and down that the Mirror Universe uniforms would remain exclusive to that deal. I don't care if you quote Terms and Conditions and I don't care if the only thread that can be found where this was said was by a dev that has since been dismissed. They said it. And now everyone and their grandmother is wearing my exclusive uniform. No more exclusive in that is there?

.



I'm going to be honest with you blackavaar. as a person who grew up around business. my parents have had a few small business. some of them approaching large business.

one thing you have to understand about business. if it is not said by the boss / owner of the business, then it should be taken with a grain of salt. why? well you see in this case, the dev was not the one in charge ( to my knowledge, now if it was zinc, jack, or one of the atari CEOs then you would have reason to say they betrayed you ) that dev was not in the know, because that dev is not the person making the decision. he was speaking when the should of not been speaking. the only person who could of said that, and it would be betrayal, would be Zinc, Jack, or as I said one of the Atari CEOs. why, because they are the ones who decide what happen not the normal devs.

in my opinion you were not betrayed, but you are a victim of an employee speaking out on stuff that he should not be speaking about.


also thank you for finishing your color guide.

[Archived Post]

I think you have a problem with understanding.

Evaluating.

Cryptic Evaluated the feedback, what are the outcomes of the possible scenarios.

A. Don't sell "exclusive" items in the c-store.
1. People without bonuses complain in the forums.

B. Sell "exclusive" items in the c-store.
1. People who have bonuses before complain in the forums.
2. People without the bonuses pay money to cryptic.

OK, so using mathematics I will evaluate which of these options is better for cryptic, and really in the long run better for you (if you intend to continue playing the game for reasons other than to run around saying "nyuh nyuh nyuh look what I have and you don't" of course that is what MMOs are for some people)

Exactly! It's all about the money. The evaluation was not going to try to determine how this would hurt the company's image or upset their most dedicate fans, just how much money they stood to make.

And it's not about running around saying "nyah nyah" at people who didn't have the exclusives. I never did that. It's about having something that makes my characters unique. It's about having something that differentiates those of us who spent their time and money and dedicated themselves to the game long before it was even released from the transient masses who could give half a crap about any other game that their company has made in the past or planned for the future.

Now the only thing that shows dedication as far as this game is concerned is how many other people you can trick into their bear trap and how many wallets you can get open and credit card numbers you can accrue for them. But of course that too will change soon enough.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

I too, believe Cryptic should have waited. The Threadanaught was up for less then a week when the changes to the C-Store went live. I really don't think several days is enough time for a decision of that magnitude.

The Threadnaught was already christened in beta. Imitators need not apply. (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=72985)

[Archived Post]

All these threads make me kind of nostalgic for the week after launch. This is like salegate all over again. Ahhh those were the days. Forum PVP all hours. Complaints galore.

The next thing that should be happening is the ban hammer will probably visit us soon.


Stay tuned boys and girls.

[Archived Post]

The Threadnaught was already christened in beta. Imitators need not apply. (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=72985)

Bah, each new issue gets its own Threadnaught. Yet, none has surpassed the original. :)

[Archived Post]

The next thing that should be happening is the ban hammer will probably visit us soon.

.

*hides* I don't like the ban hammer

[Archived Post]

All these threads make me kind of nostalgic for the week after launch. This is like salegate all over again. Ahhh those were the days. Forum PVP all hours. Complaints galore.

The next thing that should be happening is the ban hammer will probably visit us soon.


Stay tuned boys and girls.

I'll be honest with you here. Despite my own personal feelings about the issue, this is nowhere near as crazy as salesgate was. I've never seen anything as out of control as that one.

Most of the objectors on this one are compartively civil. I'm fairly certain no one attempted to edit Cryptic's wikipedia entry or BBB rating over this. Well if they did, at least they were pretty quiet about it. ;)

[Archived Post]

one thing you have to understand about business. if it is not said by the boss / owner of the business, then it should be taken with a grain of salt. why? well you see in this case, the dev was not the one in charge ( to my knowledge, now if it was zinc, jack, or one of the atari CEOs then you would have reason to say they betrayed you ) that dev was not in the know, because that dev is not the person making the decision. he was speaking when the should of not been speaking. the only person who could of said that, and it would be betrayal, would be Zinc, Jack, or as I said one of the Atari CEOs. why, because they are the ones who decide what happen not the normal devs.

That is just an excuse. And you're dealing with business ethics here, which Cryptic seriously lacks. There's a reason why people like Zinc and Jack are "representing" Cryptic to the public. It is Cryptic's ethical obligation to correct slip-ups from their representatives. When the company won't back what is presented to the public, you better darn well believe that the public will be POed. If that doesn't happen, any sleazy two-bit company can hide behind the excuse that their representatives made a mistake that their customers will pay for.

[Archived Post]

That is my point however.

Both outcomes leaves people complaining on the forums. And really this outcome has fewer, because right now all sorts of (ex)exclusivers are complaining, and they might be complaining in a month, in two months, in 6 months, but eventually, all will realize that no amount of complaining will put the cat back into the bag.

Reverse the situation.

People without exclusives will continue to increase as the % of the player base, and will still occasionally see people in TNG uniforms for instance, and say "Why is this iconic part of trek denied to me when it is already in the game." These complaints will continue forever.

So even though, yes its about the money, its not JUST about the money, even without factoring that in it makes sense to release the exclusives as it would be less complaints, and "new" content already developed.

So in the end, Less complaints, more money to develop. Really there was no other outcome, as soon as I saw the exclusives I KNEW they would be available, eventually, but I also knew that I wanted TNG now, and that of the pre-orders I chose amazon because the Borg BO seemed most likely to advance with my character.

[Archived Post]

I'll be honest with you here. Despite my own personal feelings about the issue, this is nowhere near as crazy as salesgate was. I've never seen anything as out of control as that one.

Most of the objectors on this one are compartively civil. I'm fairly certain no one attempted to edit Cryptic's wikipedia entry or BBB rating over this. Well if they did, at least they were pretty quiet about it. ;)

that was ridiculous about the Wikipedia thing.

[Archived Post]

to go back to the original point they had however many weeks of talk about the c-store and the exclusives before they did it, and they can browse any of about 15 threads since it happened. i dont think they are in short supply of feedback here

[Archived Post]

that was ridiculous about the Wikipedia thing.

Yeah it was extremely shameful behavior.

[Archived Post]

I didn't get screwed by this but I stand with those who have been ripped off by this move and support what you are doing.

[Archived Post]

*hides* I don't like the ban hammer


LOL I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from. :D

I'll be honest with you here. Despite my own personal feelings about the issue, this is nowhere near as crazy as salesgate was. I've never seen anything as out of control as that one.

Most of the objectors on this one are compartively civil. I'm fairly certain no one attempted to edit Cryptic's wikipedia entry or BBB rating over this. Well if they did, at least they were pretty quiet about it. ;)

Ya it was rather chaotic and that wiki thing was down right stupid. Agree it isn't that bad but it does make one think back. :p

[Archived Post]

to go back to the original point they had however many weeks of talk about the c-store and the exclusives before they did it, and they can browse any of about 15 threads since it happened. i dont think they are in short supply of feedback here

I don't think this forum has ever been shy about feedback.

[Archived Post]

Salegate did not have donuts. We mitigated Bonus Gate with them.

[Archived Post]

That is just an excuse. And you're dealing with business ethics here, which Cryptic seriously lacks. There's a reason why people like Zinc and Jack are "representing" Cryptic to the public. It is Cryptic's ethical obligation to correct slip-ups from their representatives. When the company won't back what is presented to the public, you better darn well believe that the public will be POed. If that doesn't happen, any sleazy two-bit company can hide behind the excuse that their representatives made a mistake that their customers will pay for.

that is not an excuse that is a fact. sometime employees screw up. sometimes those screw ups can be huge, so huge that a company mite have to bite the bullet, and tick off some people. this could be one of those times. that is part of the reason why devs should not be allowed to talk except for a select few of them.

[Archived Post]

It's a cool avatar.

In regards to this thread ... feedback is feedback. I may not agree with your stance on the issue, but you are very much welcome to continue to ask Cryptic the questions you are asking. And maybe they'll respond. Maybe they'll even come up with some sort of olive branch to extend to the customers they made unhappy with this move.

The only way to find out is to keep pressing them for things.

The one danger is ... forum mods might start moving or combining or locking threads they feel are redundant.

That happens a lot around here. So just be prepared.

But overall ... if this feedback is something really important to you ... keep at it. I think, even with all of the emotional backlash to this or other past decisions they've made ... the company itself shows they are far more willing to listen to and react to their fans/customers desires.

I base this off of my experiences with other gaming companies. I think Cryptic, even when they make decisions that anger their players ... are more flexible and communicate more than ... say ... Blizzard or Sony.

So even if I disagree completely with your position ... I still wish you luck in giving your feedback and on your quest for some sort of recognition or olive branch or "compensation" for the frustration they caused you.

Thank you, Chum.

I'm going to be honest with you blackavaar. as a person who grew up around business. my parents have had a few small business. some of them approaching large business.

one thing you have to understand about business. if it is not said by the boss / owner of the business, then it should be taken with a grain of salt. why? well you see in this case, the dev was not the one in charge ( to my knowledge, now if it was zinc, jack, or one of the atari CEOs then you would have reason to say they betrayed you ) that dev was not in the know, because that dev is not the person making the decision. he was speaking when the should of not been speaking. the only person who could of said that, and it would be betrayal, would be Zinc, Jack, or as I said one of the Atari CEOs. why, because they are the ones who decide what happen not the normal devs.

in my opinion you were not betrayed, but you are a victim of an employee speaking out on stuff that he should not be speaking about.


also thank you for finishing your color guide.

You keep talking about the post by Daeke as if he was the only dev that ever said that. He was not. That's just the only one that anyone can still find. Several devs responded to different posts on the subject and all of them said the same thing he did, as did the STO devs that attended the Meet & Greet at the ST Convention. It wasn't one employee, it was the company's standard reply as parroted by all of their employees.

And you're welcome. I hope everyone continues to use and enjoy it, even if I am not going to be here to see it.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

Most of the objectors on this one are compartively civil. I'm fairly certain no one attempted to edit Cryptic's wikipedia entry or BBB rating over this. Well if they did, at least they were pretty quiet about it. ;)

I tried to ignore the entire debacle as it all seemed so ridiculous. Spent no time on the forums and cut off Zone chat when I played while it was going on. Got flamed enough for being vocally anti-Skillcap in beta that I didn't really feel the need to sit through more bile and vitriol. I take it I missed something entertaining there...?

[Archived Post]

Both outcomes leaves people complaining on the forums. And really this outcome has fewer, because right now all sorts of (ex)exclusivers are complaining, and they might be complaining in a month, in two months, in 6 months, but eventually, all will realize that no amount of complaining will put the cat back into the bag.

That's arguing from a fallacy. You're assuming that there are only two outcomes when many have been suggesting alternatives and compromises, such as similar but unique items. In those suggestions, pre-order people still get their exclusives, and new players get something interesting and similar, but not identical.

Arguing that everyone should have something that was meant to be unique is just the "I want it!" syndrome. I don't have ToS Mirror Universe outfits because I did not do the lifetime CO sub, and I'm perfectly comfortable in letting those who sprung for it keep it as something unique that I'll never have. But then again, that brings up old arguments. Bottom line is, there were alternatives and compromises available. Yet Cryptic followed the easy money like they've always done.

If you can count on Cryptic for anything, it's that they'll follow the path of least resistance for obtaining more profit, regardless of how it may screw over their subscribers.

[Archived Post]

I tried to ignore the entire debacle as it all seemed so ridiculous. Spent no time on the forums and cut off Zone chat when I played while it was going on. Got flamed enough for being vocally anti-Skillcap in beta that I didn't really feel the need to sit through more bile and vitriol. I take it I missed something entertaining there...?

If you thought the skill cap debate was bad, should have been here for sale gate. Best not to really go into, but needless to say it went viral fast. Its probably a good thing you missed it.

[Archived Post]

Salegate did not have donuts. We mitigated Bonus Gate with them.

I saw this and thought of you.


http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/doughnut-bread-pudding/Detail.aspx

[Archived Post]

I saw this and thought of you.


http://allrecipes.com//Recipe/doughnut-bread-pudding/Detail.aspx

Hehe, that's blasphemy! Donuts shall not be pudding! :D

[Archived Post]

That's arguing from a fallacy. You're assuming that there are only two outcomes when many have been suggesting alternatives and compromises, such as similar but unique items. In those suggestions, pre-order people still get their exclusives, and new players get something interesting and similar, but not identical.

Arguing that everyone should have something that was meant to be unique is just the "I want it!" syndrome. I don't have ToS Mirror Universe outfits because I did not do the lifetime CO sub, and I'm perfectly comfortable in letting those who sprung for it keep it as something unique that I'll never have. But then again, that brings up old arguments. Bottom line is, there were alternatives and compromises available. Yet Cryptic followed the easy money like they've always done.

If you can count on Cryptic for anything, it's that they'll follow the path of least resistance for obtaining more profit, regardless of how it may screw over their subscribers.


If the majority of the people wanted the items then why not let them have them. (Full disclosure: I bought 7 copies for the items but not the COLTS)

Now, as far as the compromises, I must say that I read about the compromises and was fine with them as long as it was compensation for the people based on the principle of the situation. IF it was just based because people wanted to have these items and were unhappy because they were no longer special then no I wasn't for that.

In any case, the whole thing isn't or wasn't black and white.

[Archived Post]

Salegate did not have donuts. We mitigated Bonus Gate with them.
Hehe, that's blasphemy! Donuts shall not be pudding! :D

CBAccessGate had sharp, pointy, prickly things and wasn't fun at all. We would have died for even the thought of donuts then: http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=29485

[Archived Post]

Hehe, that's blasphemy! Donuts shall not be pudding! :D

That is what you took from that? :p

Look at the ingredients. 4 STALE doughnuts. :D

[Archived Post]

You keep talking about the post by Daeke as if he was the only dev that ever said that. He was not. Several devs responded to different posts on the subject and all of them said the same thing he did, as did the STO devs that attended the Meet & Greet at the ST Convention. It wasn't one employee, it was the company's standard reply as parroted by all of their employees.

And you're welcome. I hope everyone continues to use and enjoy it, even if I am not going to be here to see it.

:cool:

in that case I would agree, you have a right to be mad. as for betrayed, I still would not go that far. you have to remember that cryptic is not a charity that are out to make money. the problem with that is the fact that stuff changes. sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worst. this isn't anything new, and for all we know, this could of been atari's idea. ( the true driving force behind all the bad decisions )

personally I wouldn't quit over this. ( and yes nearly all of my items are now for sale on the c-store ) I don't blame you for wanting to leave the forums ( I've been trying for months ) but if you like the game, and like star trek. why quit. you don't have to spend money on the C-store, and you have a lifetime sub, so you can come and go as you please.

also i would say you could write a letter to one of head devs, but that mite get me in trouble.

no matter what you decide . you can always come back at anytime, and you are welcome aboard my ship no matter what.

[Archived Post]

If the majority of the people wanted the items then why not let them have them. (Full disclosure: I bought 7 copies for the items but not the COLTS)

The majority of people might want every item you have on your characters. Why not let them have it? The majority wants a level-capped RA5. Why not let them have it instead of being forced to level-up themselves? I assume you see problem in logic with that argument?

In any case, the whole thing isn't or wasn't black and white.

I agree. But "I want it" is not a valid argument. "I want it" because it would help grow the STO community, better the game, etc., etc. would be a better argument but that doesn't applies to trinkets in a C-Store.

[Archived Post]

Arguing that everyone should have something that was meant to be unique is just the "I want it!" syndrome.

Conversely arguing that only a small group of people should have access eternally to something iconic that the pre-order FAQ establishes was likely a timed deal could just as easily be described as the "I don't want you to have it!" syndrome.

The road of dismissing the other's argument as simple desire and not a concrete objective argument free from bias runs both ways.


I agree. But "I want it" is not a valid argument. "I want it" because it would help grow the STO community, better the game, etc., etc. would be a better argument but that doesn't applies to trinkets in a C-Store.

I would argue that disseminating these items, on the whole, could make the game better, if you define a better Star Trek game as one that it thematically more like Star Trek, and could expand the community. Many of these items are very much iconic, they are "Star Trek." By expanding the pool of people who have them, you expand how "Trek" the game is in the eyes of it's population, thus increasing the quality in the eyes of many Star Trek fans looking for a Star Trek game. This might very well draw in late adopters who, for instance, are mostly a fans of The Next Generation, who might be otherwise put off by being unable to use the uniform they sees as their vision of Star Trek.

These trinkets make a difference to that end, all while you dismiss them as trinkets. Atmosphere can be important. Games like BioShock and Alan Wake try to sell themselves almost exclusively on it, and more familiar Trek-canon stuff, makes for a more recognizably Trek atmosphere.

If you thought the skill cap debate was bad, should have been here for sale gate. Best not to really go into, but needless to say it went viral fast. Its probably a good thing you missed it.

Oh, I was there for the beginning of it. Enough to know that I didn't want to be a part of it. Just curious as to the more inane shenanigans that I might have missed.

The majority of people might want every item you have on your characters. Why not let them have it? The majority wants a level-capped RA5. Why not let them have it instead of being forced to level-up themselves? I assume you see problem in logic with that argument?

Item gathering and levelling your character are game mechanics and changing them would break all of the content up to endgame. The other is a bunch of shiny bells and whistles (trinkets by your own estimation) that don't really effect game play to any appreciable degree, or if they do should never have been included for that reason.

Sorry, but your analogy is a bad one and does not apply. I'll let you decide which of these are the apples, and which are the oranges.

[Archived Post]

People people don't forget from the beginning it's already about money, even before the development started so drop it and continue with your lives

[Archived Post]

Bonus Items Into the C-Store thread was closed and unstickied.

It's funny how they say "we're evaluating the feedback" and then go ahead and release the patch with their C-Store Mega Update before they could possibly finish evaluating everything said. And then the thread is just summarily closed and unstickied in the hopes that it would be buried in the confusion?

We're not morons, Cryptic. And we have long memories. This betrayal will not be forgotten and there is nothing you can do to redeem yourselves.

And btw, Mega update? Mega? Seriously? You made the Caitians and changed a few colors on Bird of Prey Bridge Pack I in order to make II. Without the exclusive items that were already in the game there is nothing Mega about that update. In fact, even with them, there is nothing Mega about it. You're pumping up the idjits like an announcer at a monster truck rally and you don't have anything half as kool.

Do not bother trolling or flaming this post. I will not respond to your ire.

:cool:

Here is the bottom line. Cryptic is gonna do whatever they think will bring in money. They have shown they couldn't care less about current subscribers. Especially lifers. Already got our money after all.

[Archived Post]

I have a lifetime thing and I am happy they put some of the cool items up for people. If people want to pay real money and help fund further game development I am all for it. Lets face it if anyone spent 300 bucks just to get a couple items thats just stupid. You buy a lifetime to get a lifetime subscription not for a costume or something.
I for one could care less hell offer playable borg too might as well.

[Archived Post]

Sorry, but your analogy is a bad one and does not apply. I'll let you decide which of these are the apples, and which are the oranges.

My analogy is bad? I was talking about the game, items, etc. No analogy. Perhaps you misread that?

...

Conversely arguing that only a small group of people should have access eternally to something iconic that the pre-order FAQ establishes was likely a timed deal could just as easily be described as the "I don't want you to have it!" syndrome.

The road of dismissing the other's argument as simple desire and not a concrete objective argument free from bias runs both ways.

EVE did exclusives. WoW did it. And they're exponentially more successful than STO. You do the math. Cryptic promised "exclusive" items. Not "exclusive only for a few months". The promise is broken. And I could really care less whether someone else gets a Red Matter Capacitor or not since those pre-order don't have much in-game value. It's still the principle of what Cryptic did, even in spite of players saying "oh, gimme gimme!".

[Archived Post]

Cryptic promised "exclusive" items. Not "exclusive only for a few months". The promise is broken.


On this point, I disagree. The items were exclusive. They were exclusive for a time. They never promised they would never be available on the c-store even going so far as putting it in the FAQ after launch. I realize that some people did not understand that they were only going to be exclusive for a time. However many other industries use this same marketing tactic.

Call it unethical or anti consumer or what have you if you need to however it doesn't change the fact it is commonly used, probably due to the fact it works and is not illegal. The point is people were not intentionally misled. Nor were they lied to nor were they promised anything.

This discussion has almost been beat to death honestly. In any case, the EULA/TOS says they can do it and the FAQ said they were going to do it so they did it. Some may consider that bad business or a bad way to do business. Ok, I can see that however, you can't say you were lied to or mislead when you (in general) have to take a measure of personal responsibility in the matter.

[Archived Post]

On this point, I disagree. The items were exclusive. They were exclusive for a time. They never promised they would never be available on the c-store even going so far as putting it in the FAQ after launch. I realize that some people did not understand that they were only going to be exclusive for a time. However many other industries use this same marketing tactic.

When Blizzard calls something "exclusive" they mean it. There are items that are still "exclusive" and will never be available again. It's called living up to you marketing. And people respect Blizzard for that. And if anything in the future is offered as an "exclusive" bonus/promo item for something, people can trust Blizzard that's what it really means.

As for Cryptic, well, no one will ever trust their "deals" or any other marketing cr@p that comes from them again. It will all be just hot air. Who's to say they won't be giving the C-Store items away for free at a later date when they're begging subscribers to stick around?

[Archived Post]

When Blizzard calls something "exclusive" they mean it. There are items that are still "exclusive" and will never be available again. It's called living up to you marketing. And people respect Blizzard for that. And if anything in the future is offered as an "exclusive" bonus/promo item for something, people can trust Blizzard that's what it really means.

As for Cryptic, well, no one will ever trust their "deals" or any other marketing cr@p that comes from them again. It will all be just hot air. Who's to say they won't be giving the C-Store items away for free at a later date when they're begging subscribers to stick around?

You still basically dodged what I was saying. Actually no Blizzard has done the same thing. Not to the extent of Cryptic but they have done. Case in point. The Panda bear in the little hat. (Don't remember his name) You can get him in the Blizzard equivalent of the c-store or the Blizz store or what ever that thing is called.

The point is, it is common practice in almost all industries. It is a marketing ploy. Same with limited time offer. I can't recall how many times I have seen limited time offer and it be offered again for the same price, this time as regular. So it does happen. It isn't illegal nor are people lied to or miss led.

Like I said, if you want to make the claim it is just bad business then sure I can go with that but I am not so sure how bad it can be if it works and they keep doing it. However for the sake of argument I will be willing to say that I can see the point of claiming it is just all around bad ju ju.

[Archived Post]

On this point, I disagree. The items were exclusive. They were exclusive for a time. They never promised they would never be available on the c-store even going so far as putting it in the FAQ after launch. I realize that some people did not understand that they were only going to be exclusive for a time. However many other industries use this same marketing tactic.

Call it unethical or anti consumer or what have you if you need to however it doesn't change the fact it is commonly used, probably due to the fact it works and is not illegal. The point is people were not intentionally misled. Nor were they lied to nor were they promised anything.

This discussion has almost been beat to death honestly. In any case, the EULA/TOS says they can do it and the FAQ said they were going to do it so they did it. Some may consider that bad business or a bad way to do business. Ok, I can see that however, you can't say you were lied to or mislead when you (in general) have to take a measure of personal responsibility in the matter.

And to be as personally responsible as possible in one's future interactions with the company, one should never, ever, put any degree of trust or faith in anything anyone associated with Cryptic says, suggests, or implies, whether implicitly or indirectly, in any manner, shape, or form, ever again.

Pretty much what it boils down to, huh.

"And I will continue to remind you that nothing said before launch, or even now, is a "promise" and to continue to construe it as such is just playing to human nature." -- coderanger

[Archived Post]

ex·clu·sive
Pronunciation: \iks-ˈklü-siv, -ziv\
Function: adjective
Date: 1515
1 a : excluding or having power to exclude b : limiting or limited to possession, control, or use by a single individual or group
2 a : excluding others from participation b : snobbishly aloof
3 a : accepting or soliciting only a socially restricted patronage (as of the upper class) b : stylish, fashionable c : restricted in distribution, use, or appeal because of expense
4 a : single, sole <exclusive jurisdiction> b : whole, undivided <his exclusive attention>

— ex·clu·sive·ly adverb

— ex·clu·sive·ness noun

unique
Pronunciation: \yu̇-ˈnēk\
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Latin unicus, from unus one — more at one
Date: 1602
1 : being the only one : sole <his unique concern was his own comfort> <I can't walk away with a unique copy. Suppose I lost it? — Kingsley Amis> <the unique factorization of a number into prime factors>
2 a : being without a like or equal : unequaled <could stare at the flames, each one new, violent, unique — Robert Coover> b : distinctively characteristic : peculiar 1 <this is not a condition unique to California — Ronald Reagan>
3 : unusual <a very unique ball-point pen> <we were fairly unique, the sixty of us, in that there wasn't one good mixer in the bunch — J. D. Salinger>

synonyms see strange

— unique·ly adverb

— unique·ness noun

Neither of those definitions says anything about limited time.
Forget it. I don't care any more.

:cool:

[Archived Post]

That's arguing from a fallacy. You're assuming that there are only two outcomes when many have been suggesting alternatives and compromises, such as similar but unique items. In those suggestions, pre-order people still get their exclusives, and new players get something interesting and similar, but not identical.

Arguing that everyone should have something that was meant to be unique is just the "I want it!" syndrome. I don't have ToS Mirror Universe outfits because I did not do the lifetime CO sub, and I'm perfectly comfortable in letting those who sprung for it keep it as something unique that I'll never have. But then again, that brings up old arguments. Bottom line is, there were alternatives and compromises available. Yet Cryptic followed the easy money like they've always done.

If you can count on Cryptic for anything, it's that they'll follow the path of least resistance for obtaining more profit, regardless of how it may screw over their subscribers.

How does a compromise for a DS9 or TNG movie or Wrath of Khan uniform look like?
How does a compromise for Borg BO look like?
How does a compromise for TOS Enterprise look like?

Sure, they could create an Undine BO or something like that. But guess what - it's still not a Borg. People will keep asking for it.
Maybe you can give them the NX-Enterprise. That would be neat. But it's not the TOS Enterprise. People will keep asking for it.

There aren't compromises of that kind.

The only compromise I can think of would involve giving the people with such pre-order gifts some bonus cryptic points and maybe a unique title ("I bought this game 5 times and all I got was this lousy title" perhaps?). Maybe they can even get another "time-limited exclusive".

[Archived Post]

ex·clu·sive
Pronunciation: \iks-ˈklü-siv, -ziv\
Function: adjective
Date: 1515
1 a : excluding or having power to exclude b : limiting or limited to possession, control, or use by a single individual or group
2 a : excluding others from participation b : snobbishly aloof
3 a : accepting or soliciting only a socially restricted patronage (as of the upper class) b : stylish, fashionable c : restricted in distribution, use, or appeal because of expense
4 a : single, sole <exclusive jurisdiction> b : whole, undivided <his exclusive attention>

— ex·clu·sive·ly adverb

— ex·clu·sive·ness noun

unique
Pronunciation: \yu̇-ˈnēk\
Function: adjective
Etymology: French, from Latin unicus, from unus one — more at one
Date: 1602
1 : being the only one : sole <his unique concern was his own comfort> <I can't walk away with a unique copy. Suppose I lost it? — Kingsley Amis> <the unique factorization of a number into prime factors>
2 a : being without a like or equal : unequaled <could stare at the flames, each one new, violent, unique — Robert Coover> b : distinctively characteristic : peculiar 1 <this is not a condition unique to California — Ronald Reagan>
3 : unusual <a very unique ball-point pen> <we were fairly unique, the sixty of us, in that there wasn't one good mixer in the bunch — J. D. Salinger>

synonyms see strange

— unique·ly adverb

— unique·ness noun

Neither of those definitions says anything about limited time.
Forget it. I don't care any more.

:cool:

(Red) Exclusive definition #1 tells us that items can be restricted to a person or group.

(Red) Unique definition #1 tells us the strictest since only applies when their is only one (sole) and says nothing about exclusive otherwise.

(Green) Explains that Unique is : distinctively characteristic. ( this definition applies when the first of one or sole does not apply) This definition applies due to the large amount of the copies available of each single item , and would not apply if only (one) were in of each item was available in existence.

Vendor exclusives are still offered by vendors, it may be Cryptic's wasy of phasing out vendor exclusives over time by offering then in the C- Store

In the Case of the MU set there was one post that said, "Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online." Rekhan the marketing guy, stated that this was an exclusive bundling offer to the STO community and that was the correction that explained the only time exclusive and MU set were ever placed together and was never in the Champions post on the Champions forum. http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=7 (no mention of the word exclusive in reference with the MU set) and were named as incentives in the STO posts.

Being that I have $500.00 invested in Cryptic and this title I feel in no way "screwed" over. We all got what we paid for with several "Unique" incentives. This is a Epic Win for the current and future community members for they will be able to enjoy the "unique" "Trek" experience!

Thank You.

[Archived Post]

EXCLUSIVE! UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER. Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!

It's printed right on the box I received from Amazon. It was advertised as a PRE-ORDER exclusive. I didn't go looking for a FAQ page because, to me, there was no question. You can preach caveat emptor all you want, but this was just plain false advertising. They lied and I was deliberately misled.

That's all I have to say about that.

[Archived Post]

It's printed right on the box I received from Amazon. It was advertised as a PRE-ORDER exclusive. I didn't go looking for a FAQ page because, to me, there was no question.You can preach caveat emptor all you want, but this was just plain false advertising. They lied and I was deliberately misled.

That's all I have to say about that.

your missing a couple of words
Amazon.com Exclusive
UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER. Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!

It was a amazon exclusive :)

The Boff is unique in that she is Borg!

[Archived Post]

your missing a couple of words
Amazon.com Exclusive
UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER. Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!

It was a amazon exclusive :)

The Boff is unique in that she is Borg!

Nope, the red part is NOT on the game box. You can mince words and parse dictionary definitions, but you can't admit that Pre-order Exclusives (http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives) is misleading.

[Archived Post]

Nope, the red part is NOT on the game box. You can mince words and parse dictionary definitions, but you can't admit that Pre-order Exclusives (http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives) is misleading.

I do not feel it is misleading in anyway it seems spelled out very well, but I do have above average reading comprehension skills, I do respect your opinion, I just do not see the merit in it. according to this link and my box it is.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170466707440

I will agree to disagree with you.

[Archived Post]

I see what you did there...

It doesn't say "Amazon.com Exclusive"

It says,

Amazon.com
EXCLUSIVE !
UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER
Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!


And again, I have no problem with it as a vendor bonus, even after launch, but for Cryptic to market it as a Pre-order Exclusive (http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives) and then putting it up on C-store is just plain misleading.

Even the URL says 'exclusives': http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives

Shady, no matter how you slice it.

[Archived Post]

I see what you did there...

It doesn't say "Amazon.com Exclusive"

It says,

Amazon.com
EXCLUSIVE !
UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER
Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!


And again, I have no problem with it as a vendor bonus, even after launch, but for Cryptic to market it as a Pre-order Exclusive (http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives) and then putting it up on C-store is just plain misleading.

Even the URL says 'exclusives': http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives

Shady, no matter how you slice it.

Where does it say in the FAQ that it will be added later to the c-store?
Please show me.

[Archived Post]

Where does it say in the FAQ that it will be added later to the c-store?
Please show me.

Q: Will the exclusives be offered as a microtransaction?

A: Not at launch, but somewhere down the road we may offer to let people purchases these if they did not pre-order. (http://www.startrekonline.com/preorder-faq)

[Archived Post]

I see what you did there...

It doesn't say "Amazon.com Exclusive"

It says,

Amazon.com
EXCLUSIVE !
UNIQUE BORG BRIDGE OFFICER
Liberated Borg will join your ship's crew!


And again, I have no problem with it as a vendor bonus, even after launch, but for Cryptic to market it as a Pre-order Exclusive (http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives) and then putting it up on C-store is just plain misleading.

Even the URL says 'exclusives': http://www.startrekonline.com/exclusives

Shady, no matter how you slice it.

In red is correct sorry! It still says the same thing though.

[Archived Post]

Q: Will the exclusives be offered as a microtransaction?

A: Not at launch, but somewhere down the road we may offer to let people purchases these if they did not pre-order. (http://www.startrekonline.com/preorder-faq)

Thanks!
I did not find this because I was looking for the word c-store.

[Archived Post]

Thanks!
I did not find this because I was looking for the word c-store.

well the generic term is micro-transactions. that is how it is used to describe any virtual store, no matter what the game it is.

[Archived Post]

well the generic term is micro-transactions. that is how it is used to describe any virtual store, no matter what the game it is.

But they should change now the text on the games they are currently selling on atari.com
To now mark things unique and exclusive and then sell it in the game pack, that I think is very wrong.

When the "Exclusive" time is over.

http://www.atari.com/games/startrek_online_digital_deluxe_ed/download

[Archived Post]

But they should change now the text on the games they are currently selling on atari.com
To now mark things unique and exclusive and then sell it in the game pack, that I think is very wrong.

When the "Exclusive" time is over.

http://www.atari.com/games/startrek_online_digital_deluxe_ed/download

it still in a since exclusive. not everyone has it. fact is, you had to buy the game to get the items exclusive, now you have to buy the items to get it exclusive. it would not be exclusive if you could get in normal game play. ( and the c-store is not normal game play ) granted you are going to see it a lot more now, and that means that more people are now exclusive. so technically they are still exclusive.

is it right, or wrong. I don't know, nor do I care at this point.

I know one thing, I just dropped the link to be nice, and i need to find some coffee before I get into any discussion.

[Archived Post]

it still in a since exclusive. not everyone has it. fact is, you had to buy the game to get the items exclusive, now you have to buy the items to get it exclusive. it would not be exclusive if you could get in normal game play. ( and the c-store is not normal game play ) granted you are going to see it a lot more now, and that means that more people are now exclusive. so technically they are still exclusive.

is it right, or wrong. I don't know, nor do I care at this point.

I know one thing, I just dropped the link to be nice, and i need to find some coffee before I get into any discussion.

You may be right, I am probably wrong.

I do not think that this discussion is leading some where anyway.

I will now leave this subject. It is just accept that this are the facts and deal with it and then go on with life.

I was only thinking that people that are buying the game now on Atari homepage maybe feeling misled when they read all the stuff in this forum, and therefor cryptic should remove the words that people are having problem with right now, the words that are exclusive and unique from new games that is selling this should stop the discussion from going any further.

[Archived Post]

You may be right, I am probably wrong.

I do not think that this discussion is leading some where anyway.

I will now leave this subject. It is just accept that this are the facts and deal with it and then go on with life.

I was only thinking that people that are buying the game now on Atari homepage maybe feeling misled when they read all the stuff in this forum, and therefor cryptic should remove the words that people are having problem with right now, the words that are exclusive and unique from new games that is selling this should stop the discussion from going any further.

I agree with you. the topic has been over talked.

and sure to some people mite feel misled, but that would not be the case.

ex·clu·sive (k-sklsv)
adj.
1. Excluding or tending to exclude: exclusive barriers.
2. Not allowing something else; incompatible: mutually exclusive conditions.
3. Not divided or shared with others: exclusive publishing rights.
4. Not accompanied by others; single or sole: your exclusive function.
5. Complete; undivided: gained their exclusive attention.
6. Not including the specified extremes or limits, but only the area between them: 20-25, exclusive; that is, 21, 22, 23 and 24.
7. Excluding some or most, as from membership or participation: an exclusive club.
8. Catering to a wealthy clientele; expensive: exclusive shops.
9. Linguistics Of, relating to, or being a first person plural pronoun that excludes the addressee, such as we in the sentence Chris and I will be in town tomorrow, so we can stop by your office.
n.
1. A news item initially released to only one publication or broadcaster.
2. An exclusive right or privilege, as to market a product.

it would not be exclusive if it was given to everyone. but since you still have to pay for it, that would technically still make it exclusive.

but you are right the subject has been talked to death. I'm personally tired of it. so I say good day, and good debate.

[Archived Post]

it still in a since exclusive. not everyone has it.

That's like saying Chevys are exclusive because not everyone has one.

:rolleyes:

[Archived Post]

That's like saying Chevys are exclusive because not everyone has one.

:rolleyes:

that could be said about anything. that is the problem with defining something because everyone's is different.

now as I said I'm done with this topic. good day, and I think I'm going to go buy myself a new uniform. that is a bad joke

[Archived Post]

it still in a since exclusive. not everyone has it. fact is, you had to buy the game to get the items exclusive, now you have to buy the items to get it exclusive. it would not be exclusive if you could get in normal game play. ( and the c-store is not normal game play ) granted you are going to see it a lot more now, and that means that more people are now exclusive. so technically they are still exclusive.

is it right, or wrong. I don't know, nor do I care at this point.

I know one thing, I just dropped the link to be nice, and i need to find some coffee before I get into any discussion.

I think you should chek out this thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=162951&page=98

Originally Posted by MrShark
Is it not strange that Atari still is selling the games (At the time i wrote this post) with the c-store items and calling them Exclusive and Unique?

Exclusive Klingon Blood Wine Toast Emote
Unique Registry Prefix
Exclusive "KHAAAN!" Emote

http://www.atari.com/games/startrek_...xe_ed/download

Exclusive access to uniforms.

http://www.atari.com/games/startrek_...ors_ed/dvd_rom



Thanks for pointing this out. I'll make sure it gets fixed ASAP.

Stormshade

it seems that they where not meant to sell "exclusives" anymore.

[Archived Post]

I think you should chek out this thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=162951&page=98



it seems that they where not meant to sell "exclusives" anymore.

I saw that, and to that i say good call. I would give you a dough nut, but they are not mine to give. ( really I mean it good job )

[Archived Post]

I think you should chek out this thread:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=162951&page=98



it seems that they where not meant to sell "exclusives" anymore.

I have a followup on my own post here:

Does this mean that cryptic have to call all the resellers and tell them to go out into the store with a black magic marker and erase all those exclusives that are in the c-store from the game boxes?* ;)

_________________________________
:cool: *The above Statement / Question is meant as a Joke and/or retoric question to ease up the mood in this thread and subject. (No offence meant).

[Archived Post]

WOW! This is very impressive...

http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/player-ships-old-republic

And yet Crytpic can't get their act together to do this. Months after release, and still a lousy level of content and ship interiors. Bioware's SWTOR will beat the pants off of Cryptic's STO.

[Archived Post]

WOW! This is very impressive...

http://www.swtor.com/media/trailers/player-ships-old-republic

And yet Crytpic can't get their act together to do this. Months after release, and still a lousy level of content and ship interiors. Bioware's SWTOR will beat the pants off of Cryptic's STO.

yep, and jedi can stop light sabers with their hands, and we have clone troopers who can survive a grenade to the face now. :rolleyes:

[Archived Post]

yep, and jedi can stop light sabers with their hands, and we have clone troopers who can survive a grenade to the face now. :rolleyes:

People in the STO universe can survive grenades and mines and orbital bombardments and are never ever cut even when struck by huge bat'leths. :rolleyes:

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People in the STO universe can survive grenades and mines and orbital bombardments and are never ever cut even when struck by huge bat'leths. :rolleyes:

yea well... umm... a least we won't have 12 year old jedi running yelling I am 1337, it's mostly the catz right now. :p:D

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yep, and jedi can stop light sabers with their hands, and we have clone troopers who can survive a grenade to the face now. :rolleyes:

STO is exponential worse for bending and twisting Trek canon than SWTOR does for Star Wars canon. Besides, SWTOR is going to be a much, much better MMO than STO can ever be. It's sad because I prefer a Star Trek universe over a Star Wars one. Yet I'll go where the better product and service is.

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STO is exponential worse for bending and twisting Trek canon than SWTOR does for Star Wars canon. Besides, SWTOR is going to be a much, much better MMO than STO can ever be. It's sad because I prefer a Star Trek universe over a Star Wars one. Yet I'll go where the better product and service is.

here here :D

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STO is exponential worse for bending and twisting Trek canon than SWTOR does for Star Wars canon. Besides, SWTOR is going to be a much, much better MMO than STO can ever be. It's sad because I prefer a Star Trek universe over a Star Wars one. Yet I'll go where the better product and service is.

don't get all offensives I was just having some fun. also you don't know if it's good or bad until TOR until it releases. after watching the E3 stuff it has me worried that it is going to have a clone wars feel to it. ( meaning lucas is looking to sale to the younger group instead of the older gamers. ) I saw a video from E3, and the republic armor looks just like the clone armor. the jedi had armor that was from the clone wars cartoon, and it seems that is the route they are taking. personally I was hoping it would go like KOTOR, or the comics, so this has me worried. then again it's going to be over run by raging clone wars kids, and jedi wannabes.

anyway I was just having some fun because I had nothing to do. ( no computer to play sto at the time ). no need to jump all over it, I'm also out of here. I have better thing to do then worry about TOR being a clone war look alike. ( I still enjoy the game ;))

peace love, and the America way.

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then again it's going to be over run by raging clone wars kids, and jedi wannabes.

You could take your own advice. ;) ...

also you don't know if it's good or bad until TOR until it releases.

But I agree, it has the potential in my opinion to have an overall much younger membership than STO. That is why we have fleets/guilds to filter out the rug rats. :)

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You could take your own advice. ;) ...


you have me there. it should be my generation... it doesn't mean I have to like it. there is a reason why I started watching star trek religiously at age 5 ( and I'm not joking about that ) , and I have more in common with people 10 to 20 years older then me.


But I agree, it has the potential in my opinion to have an overall much younger membership than STO. That is why we have fleets/guilds to filter out the rug rats. :)

yea it has a lot of potential, I'm just saying until it releases we don't how it is going to turn out. I really hope it is great. chances are I will play it for a month or two and I will keep on playing STO.

as I said I worry about them looking like the time period that brought us THIS (http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-jar-jar-binks.jpg) ( I still feel Jar jar was lucas attempt to market to two year olds :D)

now i really need to go.

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I really hope it is great. chances are I will play it for a month or two and I will keep on playing STO.

I hope it's great too! I'll most likely be the inverse of you. I'll play STO when new updates come out for a month or so and I will keep on playing SWTOR when it's released. ;)

THIS (http://www.icanhasforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/star-wars-jar-jar-binks.jpg)

LOL! I never saw that 'de-motivational' image before. :)

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I hope it's great too! I'll most likely be the inverse of you. I'll play STO when new updates come out for a month or so and I will keep on playing SWTOR when it's released. ;)
. :)

well you do have a lifetime.

as for that game. I don't see it destroying this game. we will lose some people. but both star wars, and star trek have their fans. over all I can see both games continue to grow, and stay alive.

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as for that game. I don't see it destroying this game. we will lose some people. but both star wars, and star trek have their fans. over all I can see both games continue to grow, and stay alive.

I'll remember to quote you on this in 2011. ;) We'll see what happens. My guess is that STO goes F2P by then.

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I'll remember to quote you on this in 2011. ;) We'll see what happens. My guess is that STO goes F2P by then.

is F2P a bad thing. what if they go they way of DDO, or what is going to doLOTR? from what I understand it's made them money.

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is F2P a bad thing. what if they go they way of DDO, or what is going to doLOTR? from what I understand it's made them money.

1 year or less for an MMO to go F2P is a bad sign. 2 years still a bad sign. 3 years (in LOTRO's case for this fall) I say is better, but it shows that the MMO market is even more competitive now. But then again DDO went into F2P mode after 3 years (and I consider that more of a failure than STO), so perhaps this is just Turbine's model?

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1 year or less for an MMO to go F2P is a bad sign. 2 years still a bad sign. 3 years (in LOTRO's case for this fall) I say is better, but it shows that the MMO market is even more competitive now. But then again DDO went into F2P mode after 3 years (and I consider that more of a failure than STO), so perhaps this is just Turbine's model?

who knows... why not we discuss this in the discussion section. ( I'm tired of switching sub-forums :D)

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who knows... why not we discuss this in the discussion section. ( I'm tired of switching sub-forums :D)

If you do subscriptions with no e-mail, then you can just visit your control panel: http://forums.startrekonline.com/usercp.php to see what threads you're subscribed to with new posts since you visited. :p

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(Red) Exclusive definition #1 tells us that items can be restricted to a person or group.

(Red) Unique definition #1 tells us the strictest since only applies when their is only one (sole) and says nothing about exclusive otherwise.

(Green) Explains that Unique is : distinctively characteristic. ( this definition applies when the first of one or sole does not apply) This definition applies due to the large amount of the copies available of each single item , and would not apply if only (one) were in of each item was available in existence.

Vendor exclusives are still offered by vendors, it may be Cryptic's wasy of phasing out vendor exclusives over time by offering then in the C- Store

In the Case of the MU set there was one post that said, "Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online." Rekhan the marketing guy, stated that this was an exclusive bundling offer to the STO community and that was the correction that explained the only time exclusive and MU set were ever placed together and was never in the Champions post on the Champions forum. http://forums.champions-online.com/announcement.php?f=2&a=7 (no mention of the word exclusive in reference with the MU set) and were named as incentives in the STO posts.

Being that I have $500.00 invested in Cryptic and this title I feel in no way "screwed" over. We all got what we paid for with several "Unique" incentives. This is a Epic Win for the current and future community members for they will be able to enjoy the "unique" "Trek" experience!

Thank You.

The advertisements for the CO LTS with the Mirror Universe uniform did indeed use the word "exclusive".

And as neither definition (exclusive or unique) has any mention of and does not imply time limits and the advertising for products with those words had no mention of a time limit, one cannot assume that the consumer would know that there was such a time limit. An item exclusive or unique to a certain purchase is expected to remain exclusive or unique to that purchase unless a time limit on said items was advertised on the packaging.

In short, what Cryptic has done could be considered False Advertising and could result in a Class Action.

Just saying, maybe Cryptic should stick to using the word Bonus next time.

:cool:

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The advertisements for the CO LTS with the Mirror Universe uniform did indeed use the word "exclusive".

And as neither definition (exclusive or unique) has any mention of and does not imply time limits and the advertising for products with those words had no mention of a time limit, one cannot assume that the consumer would know that there was such a time limit. An item exclusive or unique to a certain purchase is expected to remain exclusive or unique to that purchase unless a time limit on said items was advertised on the packaging.

In short, what Cryptic has done could be considered False Advertising and could result in a Class Action.

Just saying, maybe Cryptic should stick to using the word Bonus next time.

:cool:

Yup. The word "bonus" would be much more appropriate. I always knew it was a possibility that Cryptic would turn around and re-release these "exclusive" items since they've done sleazier things in the past. But I never would have guessed it would be just 4 months after launch. Oh well.

Funny how fans are defending Cryptic on this point even though other well-known MMO developers use the term "exclusive" to mean never again released. It's obvious that Cryptic is just blowing marketing hot-air all the time. :rolleyes:

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Yup. The word "bonus" would be much more appropriate.

I like 'early access'.

As in...

Buy the Super Duper Special Limited 'Spawn of Sami' Edition of Days Of Our Lives Online TODAY and gain EARLY ACCESS to elite character traits that will distinguish your character as an authentic Spawn of Sami Brady! You'll also get EARLY ACCESS to the Bo Brady Harley - just like the one Bo Brady rode in the show! Available exclusively at almost all game stores everywhere!

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I like 'early access'.

I'd buy that for a dollar. The idea, though, not the example. ;)

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On this point, I disagree. The items were exclusive. They were exclusive for a time. They never promised they would never be available on the c-store even going so far as putting it in the FAQ after launch. I realize that some people did not understand that they were only going to be exclusive for a time. However many other industries use this same marketing tactic.

But most don't turn around and say (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=629987#post629987):

Final question: Will preorder bonus in-game items (costume pieces, action figure, etc) be availabe in the Cryptic Store?
No. These are exclusive pre-order items for retailers. You will never get them any other way.

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But most don't turn around and say (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=629987#post629987):

Very strange... I diced to drop this matter... I am tired of this conflict and I think that we have no chance of doing anything about this.

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But most don't turn around and say (http://forums.champions-online.com/showthread.php?p=629987#post629987):

Indeed. Nice find.

Of course Cryptic's response to that would be...

"We're sorry, but Daeke was incorrect in saying this" ... even though he's a rep for Cryptic. As they've done with the guaranteed closed beta access. Cryptic is just plain lying here, in every direction.

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Very strange... I diced to drop this matter... I am tired of this conflict and I think that we have no chance of doing anything about this.

We don't. But we can decide to never give Cryptic another dime and refuse to be fooled by their lies in the future.

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If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.

/sigh

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If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.

/sigh

Well, it has happened at least twice now with Daeke. If he were an employee of a company where I made decisions, I would have to eat his words and honor the promise. After the first time it would have been a casual reprimand. But the following times would be grounds for separation. Is Atari/Cryptic running a company or a circus? In the end, Cryptic isn't being responsible for this, so they're passing on their mistakes directly to the customer. :rolleyes:

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If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.

/sigh

Didn't Daeke get sacked?

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Didn't Daeke get sacked?

I hope that this matter never dies, I feel very sad that my Borg, is no longer a exclusive object.

Here is my story:
I am a huge star trek voyager fan, therefor I sent an e-mail to cryptic support before I bought a third copy of the game and asked them if they could grant me a Borg officer.
I told them that I am a huge fan an that I bought 2 copies of the game both the standard an the deluxe edition and the lifetime subscription.

The answer was that even if they wanted to they could not grant me a Borg officer, because they were not available any more. They told me that I could play the liberated Borg character instead.

So I bought a third copy of the game to get that Borg officer.
I paid a lot of money for this and because I was a lifetime member I could not use the 30 days of game time.

I was very proud of my Borg office, I showed her off in missions. You can call me an idiot if you want but it was a bit of a status symbol to have that Borg officer, it was exclusive and it felt like my own.

Because I am a star trek voyager fan I needed a "seven" in my bridge crew.

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I hope that this matter never dies, I feel very sad that my Borg, is no longer a exclusive object.

Because I am a star trek voyager fan I needed a "seven" in my bridge crew.

You still have it. Noone has taken it away from You. Does Your enjoyment only comes from depriving others from having ???

I pre-ordered tons of boxes to get stuff too. Connie, Borg BO, uniforms etc. Still I'm happy for others being able to get them as well plus I still have mine and enjoy them.

It gives me no satisfaction or pleassure to go "na na na , look what i have, You cant have it, na na na." :cool:

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9 times out of 10 you don't even see the other players BO's except perhaps when visiting the bridge.

I have two different pre-order bonuses, including the Borg BO, and i'm all fine and dandy with this.

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If only Cryptic had some recourse ... and taken steps to correct the mistakes of Daeke. If only they had done something ... anything ... to get Daeke to stop posting incorrect things on their forums.

/sigh

Since they did nothing to 'correct' what Daeke said concerning exclusives on any occasion, I can only assume he did not post incorrectly.

Because of this, we can only make guesses as to why they let him go. But he still said what he said as Community manager, and they never said it was incorrect.

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Since they did nothing to 'correct' what Daeke said concerning exclusives on any occasion, I can only assume he did not post incorrectly.

It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.

Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.

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Didn't Daeke get sacked?

Shhhhhh. Don't tell anyone in this forum. Supposedly Cryptic is a bunch of liars because Daeke said the Mirror Universe uniforms would never be put up for sale on the C-Store.

Daeke, who said this, was obviously the "correct" one here. And Cryptic, who pointed out more than once that Daeke was incorrect on other topics, and who went ahead on put this uniform on the C-Store, despite what Daeke said back when Daeke still worked for the company ... when he sometimes said things that were incorrect, and may have said enough incorrect things to maybe lose a job.

No ... it's Cryptic's fault. All their fault. Cause Daeke said ... and that's carved in stone.

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It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.

Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.

That has to be the worst argument you ever made. You're off your game tonight. ;)

If Daeke said something wrong back then, they were under obligation to correct it back then. When it was for sale. Since they did not, then one must assume what he said was correct, and people made their purchases accordingly. Going against what was said back then currently is another thing entirely, and exactly the point people are making.

If Daeke said incorrect things, that doesn't remove Cryptic's responsibility to correct them at the time they were said. Because his job was specifically to relay information to the customer. If they failed to do so, they have an obligation to the customers who were mislead by those words.

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It gives me no satisfaction or pleassure to go "na na na , look what i have, You cant have it, na na na." :cool:

You are right about this.

Now I will try to put all of this behind me, but many people feel that they have been betrayed by this even if you don't.

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It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.

Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.

Oh my goodness. I have rarely seen logic twisted into a pretzel like this outside of FOX and MSNBC. Making the "correction" 10 months after the fact is hardly relevant. That's called "Changing Policy" of "Changing Our Minds" or something similar.

Shhhhhh. Don't tell anyone in this forum. Supposedly Cryptic is a bunch of liars because Daeke said the Mirror Universe uniforms would never be put up for sale on the C-Store.

Daeke, who said this, was obviously the "correct" one here. And Cryptic, who pointed out more than once that Daeke was incorrect on other topics, and who went ahead on put this uniform on the C-Store, despite what Daeke said back when Daeke still worked for the company ... when he sometimes said things that were incorrect, and may have said enough incorrect things to maybe lose a job.

No ... it's Cryptic's fault. All their fault. Cause Daeke said ... and that's carved in stone.
That Daeke may or may not have made a mistake on something else is irrelevant.
That Deake is not with the company and how he left is irrelevant.

I'll apologize in advance if you've already done so, but unless you can show where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction, Deake's announcement stands with Cryptic's tacit approval.

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It would seem they did quite a bit to correct the mistakes he made.

Case in point, he was incorrect about what he said regarding the mirror universe uniforms? How did Cryptic let the fans know this? GM_Destra made a post about the mirror universe uniforms being added to the C-Store. Proving that yes, Daeke was incorrect. What he said was wrong. How do we know this? Because if you click into the C-Store, you'll see the uniforms there. Uniforms Daeke said wouldn't be there. But are there. Because Daeke was incorrect.

Superchum is such a smart guy he voices my opinion and the summary of the facts so well, I only need to post that I agree with him.

/ signed and agreed

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I'll apologize in advance if you've already done so, but unless you can show where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction, Deake's announcement stands with Cryptic's tacit approval.

Stormshade did make a post. About Daeke being incorrect. About something he said about the Champions Online LIfetime Sub.

And here it is (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?p=865087&highlight=daeke#post865087)

It's not about the uniforms. It's about the far more popular (at the time) Closed Beta access.

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That's nice, Superchum. Also irrelevant. Not just for the subject but because both what Daeke said and the correction occurred after the end of the CO LTS promotion. So, to clarify my question.

Can you (or anyone for that matter) show me where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction about the Mirror Universe Uniforms being unavailable without the purchase of that subscription?

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That's nice, Superchum. Also irrelevant. Not just for the subject but because both what Daeke said and the correction occurred after the end of the CO LTS promotion. So, to clarify my question.

Can you (or anyone for that matter) show me where someone from Cryptic, at the time of the CO LTS promotion last year posted a correction about the Mirror Universe Uniforms being unavailable without the purchase of that subscription?

Check a thread called Champions offer look for posts by Rekhan the marketing guy, he says at around the time of the offer they will consider when the MU uniforms will be offered again if the market dictates so.
This was due to many, many community members that were unhappy with the Champions offer.

Rekhan also explained that the exclusive was to the STO community not to the Champions offer.

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You are right about this.

Now I will try to put all of this behind me, but many people feel that they have been betrayed by this even if you don't.

Best thing to do. After all it's a game meant to have fun. This is not the end of the world.

There are way more important issues out there to get a banner and protest about. Like enviromental issues. Poverty etc. ;)

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That's nice, Superchum. Also irrelevant.

Well, I think the entire subject at this point in time is irrelevant. Because if you go to the C-Store link either in-game or on the website you will see that Daeke was incorrect.

Actions do speak louder than IRC Chats.

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Thanks, picardalpha2clearance. That's pretty close to what I was looking for.

From 08-06-2009
In regard to questions specifically about the Mirror Universe costume set, I don’t have an answer for you on its future availability, because we just don’t know yet. But thank you for your posts on this issue, as your opinion will definitely help shape the future of our offers.

And finally on 08-26-2009 shortly before the offer closed
Still no updates, unfortunately.
So Cryptic basically stonewalled until it didn't matter anymore; they already had the money.

Nice policy.

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No problem I have done extensive homework on the subject!

This link has all that was said on the matter that I found and presented

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=155829&highlight=mirror+universe+uniform&page=8

Rekhan's posts are in yellow.

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they already had the money.

Nice policy.

First rule of acquisition. Pretty basic trek lore right there.

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Oh my goodness. I have rarely seen logic twisted into a pretzel like this outside of FOX and MSNBC. Making the "correction" 10 months after the fact is hardly relevant. That's called "Changing Policy" of "Changing Our Minds" or something similar.

Yup. You'll find many fanboys (and I wonder if they're employees) echo Cryptic's twisted logic. ;)

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what happened to the sticky where they said this in the first place?

I cant seem to find it in a search and the threads that had links to it appear to be missing too.

are they still evaluating or have they said something or did they just sweep it all under the rug and hope that people would forget about it in the burst of the galaxy x bubble?