dStahl, please no solo-friendly STF's

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Yesterday, I started this thread with this:
In a Hailing Frequencies recent broadcast (http://shows.hailingfrequency.com/HF-SE-11072010.mp3) Daniel Stahl speaks about making solo-friendly versions of the STF's, if I understood correctly.

I would like to urge, plea and even beg Cryptic not to do this!

Please Cryptic, instead of making solo-friendly STF's make a pack of solo-friendly missions leading up to the STF's and following up to them, instead of making the STF's themselves solo-friendly.

My reasoning for this, is that the STF's themselves, in my opinion, should remain challenging group-based content, but fleshing them out in a way that allows us to feel STAR TREK'ly heroic (i.e. solo-friendly) could definitely get more people to want to attempt the STF's, while allowing Cryptic to flesh out the stories of the STF's themselves without actively changing the STF's.

Thank you. :D
However, 18 pages in less than 24 hours have convinced me that we need to focus the discussion on HOW can the STF's be made soloable instead of IF they should.

I definitely like the STF's as group-content, but if there are good ideas out there on how to create a soloable version of the STF's, I'd like to discuss them here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=167748).

I'd like to formally apologize to all those who think I'm seeking to prevent them from accessing any content. My intent was never to belittle any of you for preferring soloplay vs group-play.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

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Signed, +1

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I would agree with keeping them group oriented, BUT, they need to start listening to the players. If we are telling them that doing X in this part of STF-X's mission is too hard, ridiculous, time consuming, etc, then they should work with us to improve them. As far as I've seen, they haven't listened to any of the complaints about the STF's.

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I disagree, I'm all for a difficulty slider for it. I'm in STO for the story, and finding a PUG that doesn't suck has left several parts of the story out of my reach.

[Archived Post]

In a Hailing Frequencies recent broadcast (http://shows.hailingfrequency.com/HF-SE-11072010.mp3) Daniel Stahl speaks about making solo-friendly versions of the STF's, if I understood correctly.

I would like to urge, plea and even beg Cryptic not to do this!

Please Cryptic, instead of making solo-friendly STF's make a pack of solo-friendly missions leading up to the STF's and following up to them, instead of making the STF's themselves solo-friendly.

My reasoning for this, is that the STF's themselves, in my opinion, should remain challenging group-based content, but fleshing them out in a way that allows us to feel STAR TREK'ly heroic (i.e. solo-friendly) could definitely get more people to want to attempt the STF's, while allowing Cryptic to flesh out the stories of the STF's themselves without actively changing the STF's.

Thank you. :D


Where possible you have to appeal to the tastes of both the raid monger and the casual player. They should make STF's more solo friendly, while at the same time, preserving, and even increasing the difficulty of the STF's for group consumption. What drove me away from ******** was the wall that I ended up hitting when I reached max level. And instead of being creative about the game and giving both casuals and raiders paths to story and victory, they ended up nerfing the whole endgame which still didn't succeed in bringing the masses in to the raids and caused the raiders to lose interest. They should find a way to make the end game accessible but always give that optional challenge and hook. Tread carefully with the rewards though.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But theres no reason your personal preferences should be forced on those who dont share them.This isn't about my personal preference, but as far as I'm concerned, twisting the STF's into a solo-friendly version is a side-step, where-as making more content that is new but also fleshes out the STF's and may perhaps get people interested in gathering a group to play through them feels a lot more like two steps forwards. :)

Please do not confuse my request with wanting to keep the STF's hardcore, I'm all for giving the STF's some well required make-overs so that they'd faithfully represent the STAR TREK franchise, as well as make them slightly less zerg-festy and more convenient to go through. I also want to keep them unique however, as group-content, as they were meant to be.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

I agree with you completely I think a difficulty slider option should be available. i don't like having to be forced to group to see all the content. if I want to group i have that option.

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I agree with you completely I think a difficulty slider option should be available. i don't like having to be forced to group to see all the content. if I want to group i have that option.Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.

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I'm alright with solo-STFs, but I demand the following if Cryptic is determined to go that route:

Remove the purple loots from solo runs
Remove the marks of valor from the solo runs

That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

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This isn't about my personal preference, but as far as I'm concerned,

And thus, your personal preference. Which is fine, mind you. But theres no reason your preference should be forced on everyone if it is possible to have a system that allows everyone to play the STFs the way they want.

I also want to keep them unique however, as group-content, as they were meant to be.

Just because something was "meant to be" one way doesnt mean it shouldnt be changed. The game was "meant to be" laughably easy, but the difficulty slider was a great change. Theres no reason that slider shouldnt be applied to STFs as well for those who may wish to use it.

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not signed, if you want hard STFs there IS a difficulty slider you know, why gate people who hate grouping out of content?

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I'm alright with solo-STFs, but I demand the following if Cryptic is determined to go that route:

Remove the purple loots from solo runs
Remove the marks of valor from the solo runs

That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

i'm okay with that. I have perfectly no problem with that. if you want the valor or purple equipment drops then run it in the group setting.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

I basically agree with Nagus here. Implementing solo friendly STF variants is a good idea IMO.

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Other than the STF's there is not much content in the game that requires you to group up with other players. I actually wish they would put in some STF's for lower level players similar to the fleet actions. This is an MMO and their should be the expectation that we have to team up with other people at certin points to accomplish objectives (after all isn't that the star trek way, looking for allies and accomplishing goals with as many participants as possible?). I know that its always refreshing to get into a raid group with people who know what it means to be a team... sci officers who actually heal instead of pretending to be rambo, eng's who really use their skills to improve the fighting abilities of everyone, tatic officers who actually use "tatics" to overcome a challenge.

Keep the STF's group based, but address some of the problems that bring the majority of players to a standstill. As previously stated some parts are a bit too challenging for an average team of PUG's. Infected has got a lot of good changes and is really a good mission now. It can be completed in a reasonable time with a good team under 2 hours, the other STF's need the same kind of love.

Cure and Khitomer need some twiking (those darn generators on cure for an example, or the two gates at the first of khitomer). STF's should be a challenge, but they should not take 3+ hours to finish. Now I have completed every STF to date multiple times (20+ for infected 10+ for cure, 2 times for khitomer, and 3 for Undine TD), and even with a good group, sometimes you can get hung up. Many people have commented on these things in the past, and will in the future, hopefully crypic will listen up and soften some of the STF's a bit, so that people won't feel like they need them to be totally nurffed ( there is no way you could do this with your bridge officers, take infected for an example, how would you get your officers to jump the platforms just right, and hit those consols at the right time? ) Keep the STF's group based, but address the difficulty a bit more.

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i'm okay with that. I have perfectly no problem with that. if you want the valor or purple equipment drops then run it in the group setting.

I would be fine with that as well.

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The more socialization the better.


Solo missions in MMO's never made much sense to me anyway. Arent we playing an online game to play with other people?

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



yes it is an mmo it doesn't mean you have to be forced to play with others. but I guess there are some people who are just selfish who think just because they want end game content to be hard and challenging that everyone should be forced to group for it that there shouldn't be an easy mode for it even though the equipment that would drop from the easy mode would be reduced for the people that wanted to solo the easy mode just for the sake of seeing the story content.

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/signed.

MMO's in general have content that is "group only" content. WoW has the high end raids, CoH has the Hamidon Raid and TF/SF, just to name a few. You can still get through the main STO game solo if you wish. The main story points are touched without the STFs. Not to mention there are a lot of complaints on these boards about the game not being very social friendly and having too much solo gameplay.

If anything they could take the STF's out of the "standard" missions and make a special note on the captain that gives them that missions he assigns are group missions. That way you know when you take them it is meant for group content. If you want to play solo don't take them, otherwise find a PUG, Fleet, whatever and enjoy.

That's my opinion though. If they did make the STFs soloable then I think there should be no purple gear for it. Blue gear completion reward and lower during the STF only. That way if you really want the high end rewards then you need to go through the challenge of playing with others and the higher difficulty.

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I'm alright with solo-STFs, but I demand the following if Cryptic is determined to go that route:

Remove the purple loots from solo runs
Remove the marks of valor from the solo runs

That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

I agree with this. If it were to have a solo option

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The more socialization the better.


Solo missions in MMO's never made much sense to me anyway. Arent we playing an online game to play with other people?

yes we are but no one says we have to be forced to play with others when we play. we should be able to choose. when i play with my npcs from my ship I'm fine playing the star trek game with those. I haven't done or completed any of the stfs in the game because I have to group with other people. Its not worth the time or effort to bother dealing with other people. When i played wow if I wanted to see the raid content I just made my own private server and ran through the raid instances solo to see the content and see the storylines. Just so i wouldn't have to put up with other people and their bs. The same goes for the stfs why i haven't bothered with the stfs i don't want to have to put up with other people. i do play in a fleet yes and I socalize with them. And they are like me they don't run the stfs either because they find the level of difficulty rather silly.

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This is an MMO and their should be the expectation that we have to team up with other people at certin points to accomplish objectives

A common misconception. Nothing about the definition of an MMO requires players to group. Rather, it simply requires they have the OPTION to do so if they choose.

The more socialization the better.


Solo missions in MMO's never made much sense to me anyway. Arent we playing an online game to play with other people?

And no one would force you to play solo if you didnt want to. However, until you start paying everyone's subs, then you have no business telling them how they should play their game, be it solo or grouped.

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i am against group only content every player should be able to see all content if he plays solo or in a group

and i see no good think in to many, to stong enemy and a bad bad Storytelling with no Viedeos...that tell me more about the story and all the text should be spoken by actors, so that i not have to read all

iven when its only in Eng and not spoken in German as well and other languages too

for what i have my BO when i cant win this mission solo

i paid enough to see all content iven with a team

and i dont want to be forced to join in the end a fleet...

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The more socialization the better.


Solo missions in MMO's never made much sense to me anyway. Arent we playing an online game to play with other people?

Just going to throw in my two cents here, Captain _Solok this meant meant at you but your post is the best for want I want to say :D I just recently leveled a science officer to captain (got busy on tribble) and I have to say, asking for help in zone, in a fleet or even trying to say HI to other poeple that join your open instance usualy gets this "no responce" So for the idea of making things more social, I'm totaly up for it and for not getting valor or items, thats fine with me :) However the ideas he did mention about fleet actions being "fleet" friendly is a great start to socializing.

Once again just my two cents :D

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A common misconception. Nothing about the definition of an MMO requires players to group. Rather, it simply requires they have the OPTION to do so if they choose.



And no one would force you to play solo if you didnt want to. However, until you start paying everyone's subs, then you have no business telling them how they should play their game, be it solo or grouped.

I agree with you completely Nagus. Too many of these people that play these mmos try to tell other people what to do in these games and tell them how they should play the game and tell people what they deserve to have access to in the game and what they don't deserve. it really irritates me when people think that other players who aren't as hardcore or who don't like to group don't deserve to be playing the game or have access to all of its features.

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I'd disagree. Do you know how difficult it is to find a group to do the STFs? I haven't done them yet because I simply cannot find a group that'll stick it out long enough to be able to get through the mission. Most times I cannot find a group at all to do them.

At least if they were soloable I'dbe able to do them.

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I'd be for soloable versions so long as the loot represented the change in difficulty.

Having to force something on people who don't want it only shows that there's something wrong with what you're trying to force on people IMO. I wonder how people would feel if we were required to win pvp matches or complete crafting to get to the story. There should be incentives to do the grouping, like better drops and the like, but it shouldn't need to be required.

in the end do you really want to group with someone who's unwilling anyways? do you want to put up with the complaints? or the half hearted attempt that ends half way through when they get sick of it?

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



NOT when it bans the solo player base from the upper ranks. :mad:

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I'd disagree. Do you know how difficult it is to find a group to do the STFs? I haven't done them yet because I simply cannot find a group that'll stick it out long enough to be able to get through the mission. Most times I cannot find a group at all to do them.

At least if they were soloable I'dbe able to do them.

me too and i dont want to wait 3h to find a Group at the time i want to play when maybe the US People are sleeping

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Hmm, like have solo run = no XP or drops, but essentially acts like a holodeck training - for the eventual party run.

I like the idea of multiplayer only missions, as sometimes things get lonely just out there on my own (or waiting for friends to level up).

I would like STF to be a big easier though, reduce the respawn frequency and/or density of the enemies, because it's very frustrating that not only are you working on a timer, it takes so long to kill anyone and there's 38,473 of them coming at you, and if you die and respawn, you often can't rejoin the party to whittle the boss down.

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I'm alright with solo-STFs, but I demand the following if Cryptic is determined to go that route:

Remove the purple loots from solo runs
Remove the marks of valor from the solo runs

That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

Why remove purple drops? Everyone can already earn purples through the daily missions, and as we all know the way gear works "purples" aren't really that much better than other gear. I suppose you could restrict drops to be equivalent to gear you through the dailies, but there is already minimal difference between STF purple gear, and other purple gear.

Once again, why remove marks of valor? All they have to do is make sure people get more marks of valor by doing the group based STF missions. Some people will just do both the solo and group base STF missions anyway I'm sure.

I can agree with a slower acquisition rate for solo STF missions, but there is no reason to remove the ability to get better stuff at a slower rate for people that prefer to not run the current missions.

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I am totally FOR solo STF's.


Grouping is a chore, and the people are less than desirable.


so YES to solo STF's. Great idea.


dont have to deal with rude, or loafer PuGs...... can actually play the game then.


good job Dstahl.

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I agree with you completely Nagus. Too many of these people that play these mmos try to tell other people what to do in these games and tell them how they should play the game and tell people what they deserve to have access to in the game and what they don't deserve. it really irritates me when people think that other players who aren't as hardcore or who don't like to group don't deserve to be playing the game or have access to all of its features.

Whoa whoa relax there buddy. I didnt try to tell anyone how to enjoy the game, i just said that it never made much sense to me.


I never said anything about being "as hardcore" as anyone.


I just dont get it. Why have the internet connection attatched to the game if you arent going to interact with others?


What's the point? Just play an offline game.

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me too and i dont want to wait 3h to find a Group at the time i want to play when maybe the US People are sleeping

That's it. Same problem here. When I get on to play, the US is asleep usually, so most players are offline. But still, on the odd occassion I get on when there's a decent amount of people logged in. I still can be around the sector block for hours trying to find a group before I have to log off myself, without accomplishing anything.

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



Incorrect. You only need to have option that allows players to group or interact. It should never be a requirement to group to complete a quest/mission in an MMO. Similarly, it should not be a requirement to do any sort of PvP if one does not want to. People play MMOs for different reasons. I don't generally like to group up with random people, though I sometimes do it. I generally like MMOs because the other players make the environment feel more alive and realistic. Just seeing people going about their business is usually enough interaction for me.

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Whoa whoa relax there buddy. I didnt try to tell anyone how to enjoy the game, i just said that it never made much sense to me.


I never said anything about being "as hardcore" as anyone.


I just dont get it. Why have the internet connection attatched to the game if you arent going to interact with others?


What's the point? Just play an offline game.

you're doing the same thing again that he pointed out.


get off your high-horse...... a lot of us really hate dealing with PvP haters or Group idiots.



if you think MMO;s are jsut for getting people to groupSTF's ..... then your world is a bit jaded.

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yes we are but no one says we have to be forced to play with others when we play. we should be able to choose. when i play with my npcs from my ship I'm fine playing the star trek game with those. I haven't done or completed any of the stfs in the game because I have to group with other people. Its not worth the time or effort to bother dealing with other people. When i played wow if I wanted to see the raid content I just made my own private server and ran through the raid instances solo to see the content and see the storylines. Just so i wouldn't have to put up with other people and their bs. The same goes for the stfs why i haven't bothered with the stfs i don't want to have to put up with other people. i do play in a fleet yes and I socalize with them. And they are like me they don't run the stfs either because they find the level of difficulty rather silly.


In my opinion (and thats all it is so chill out) half the fun of MMO's ever since ultima was playing with people and making friends.

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you can make friends without force grouping......

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I just dont get it. Why have the internet connection attatched to the game if you arent going to interact with others? What's the point? Just play an offline game.

You dont have to be grouped with another player while doing a mission to interact with others. You have something called "chat". Also, many people play MMOs for RP(which is mainly done on stations and other RP locations like bridges or planets like Vulcan) and the player economy. And still others play MMOs because they get new content on a regular basis, which offline games dont. All of that said, tts ok if you dont "get it" as long as you dont try to tell others their not playing right.

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you're doing the same thing again that he pointed out.


get off your high-horse...... a lot of us really hate dealing with PvP haters or Group idiots.



if you think MMO;s are jsut for getting people to groupSTF's ..... then your world is a bit jaded.



I never said anything about pvp once. And I'm not a group idiot. I just said I dont understand playing an online game solo.


My world is a bit jaded? Did you read his rant about how he doesnt ever play with anyone at all and even goes so far as to play raids on his own server to that he doesnt have to interact with anyone!?


hah yeah my world is real jaded!

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Whoa whoa relax there buddy. I didnt try to tell anyone how to enjoy the game, i just said that it never made much sense to me.


I never said anything about being "as hardcore" as anyone.


I just dont get it. Why have the internet connection attatched to the game if you arent going to interact with others?


What's the point? Just play an offline game.

if the game whould work without Internet i whould be happy too and when one day that i hope is 10 years or more away they shut down the servers i whould want to play it without Internetconnetction and without paying again and again (i have Lifetime, so i dont have to pay again anyhow)

but there is no star trek game out there wich so mutch content and i talk about new games not old ones that maybe dont run on win7 or look to bad today

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In my opinion (and thats all it is so chill out) half the fun of MMO's ever since ultima was playing with people and making friends.

How often do you make friends with people when you are forced into a group with them?

No, if you want to make friends in an MMO, than the grouping needs to be voluntary, not forced upon you. Plus, isn't that what the fleets are also there for?

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youre taking this personally Solok..... pvp haters and group idiots are common when grouping....


sorry you thought I was calling you an idiot.....


well....not really sorry..... but you DID misinterpret and take the blanket classification to heart....


lol....I guess I saw that coming ... :)

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People do need to get off their high horse, I never understand why people want to force others to group with them if they dont want to.

I hate most people who play MMOs, and despite them utterly (generally speaking) Why would you want to group with such a anti social p'tak like me? :confused:

As for why bother having a internet connection and playing a MMO? Because solo players Money is just as good as a group lovers money. Companies cant and dont want to discriminate, and yes telling Solo players they cant play is discrimination. Everyone has a playstyle they enjoy, no one has a right to say it is invalid if they arent paying for the other persons bill.

Though I'd love to play STO Offline but sadly its not possible, however I never play mutliplayer portions of games (Yes, even for Call of duty) unless its with a friend I know, its just how some people are.

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the fleetaction are running good without to be forced to start them as a group
and iven olone you can do them (one Klingon for exsample) only the last boss enemy Dreatnogh is to stong to destroy him alone (dont like it)

its iven more difficult to find other players for that mission as on Fed Side

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How often do you make friends with people when you are forced into a group with them?

No, if you want to make friends in an MMO, than the grouping needs to be voluntary, not forced upon you. Plus, isn't that what the fleets are also there for?


You make good points. But I was responding to some people who were stating they never ever want to play with anyone and I was just thinking that was odd since this is an MMO.


People in MMO's have over the years been forced into situations but just in different ways. I remember playing UO and having to kill skeletons in brit graveyard with the other newbs to get gold, and having to band together against pk's to save our tiny amount of loot, and I met some of the best friends in that game in that manner.

So maybe game mechanics didnt force us together, external forces did. Unfortunately in STO there arent many open areas where people can group up for mutual benefit and therefore meet. So they need to auto-group.

And it makes sense too. Starfleet wouldnt send one ship to fight an entire klingon fleet. You would be ordered to group up with other captains (whether you liked them or not) to complete the assigned mission.

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So they need to auto-group.

And it makes sense too. Starfleet wouldnt send one ship to fight an entire klingon fleet. You would be ordered to group up with other captains (whether you liked them or not) to complete the assigned mission.

thats a good point

because the other way like it is now simply dont works if you dont want to join a fleet and must use Teamspeak and such tools

the text chat in game is good enough for me

and iven without communikating at all, playing togehter (Coop) vs enemy works


or who want to wait, till there are enough players for a mission that will be there till the end of Mission

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Whoa whoa relax there buddy. I didnt try to tell anyone how to enjoy the game, i just said that it never made much sense to me.


I never said anything about being "as hardcore" as anyone.


I just dont get it. Why have the internet connection attatched to the game if you arent going to interact with others?


What's the point? Just play an offline game.

no I am paying to play star trek online and I am going to play it. you don't like me playing it and you don't like the developers thinking about making solo stfs then you quit playing. the rest of us who want solo stfs will more than enjoy it when they make them.

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you're doing the same thing again that he pointed out.


get off your high-horse...... a lot of us really hate dealing with PvP haters or Group idiots.



if you think MMO;s are jsut for getting people to groupSTF's ..... then your world is a bit jaded.

ty for your support friend.

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Definitely NOT signed.

Making STF's solo friendly with a difficulty slider gives people an option to solo, which does not exclude those wishing to group. Current system excludes solo players and this is, after all, a solo friendly game.

Solo Friendly STF's +1

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I never said anything about pvp once. And I'm not a group idiot. I just said I dont understand playing an online game solo.


My world is a bit jaded? Did you read his rant about how he doesnt ever play with anyone at all and even goes so far as to play raids on his own server to that he doesnt have to interact with anyone!?


hah yeah my world is real jaded!

your reading what you want to read my friend. I'm playing right now in a defend the gamma orionis sector block with a few other players on the test server.

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NOT when it bans the solo player base from the upper ranks. :mad:

OK this is why when I started STO in Feb I paid others to help me make a Fleet "Nomads"
They knew I was going to kick them as soon as I paid them and all was good with that.

I do NOT want to be hounded to join someones Fleet
I do NOT want to be forced to 'team' with unknown folks
I do PvE only as this is the solo player route
I made RA in 31 days - ALONE

If/when I find folks that I feel are reasonable enought to work with I will invite them in.
I have did all that I have did in 'deep space' encounters - I have did very few missions as I wanted to save building the points for level upgrades later.

Yes I did 'grind' and worked my butt of to make RA (alone) and save 'most' missions for points later.

Now 'some' folks want to limit me as in to get to a higher rank because I will not group or PvP.

I just say NO - there are many folks in the player base that are just like me.
IF we must group to upgrade - we are just done
As the flaming goes on in this forum so would trying to work with 'some' for you in a group.

Sorry not for me - you wanta be tough guy - 1 on 1 - I'll do you in - I don't need or want to rely on 'anyone' else.

And I do NOT feel that to make even the top rank anyone should have to group

[Archived Post]

OK this is why when I started STO in Feb I paid others to help me make a Fleet "Nomads"
They knew I was going to kick them as soon as I paid them and all was good with that.

I do NOT want to be hounded to join someones Fleet
I do NOT want to be forced to 'team' with unknown folks
I do PvE only as this is the solo player route
I made RA in 31 days - ALONE

If/when I find folks that I feel are reasonable enought to work with I will invite them in.
I have did all that I have did in 'deep space' encounters - I have did very few missions as I wanted to save building the points for level upgrades later.

Yes I did 'grind' and worked my butt of to make RA (alone) and save 'most' missions for points later.

Now 'some' folks want to limit me as in to get to a higher rank because I will not group or PvP.

I just say NO - there are many folks in the player base that are just like me.
IF we must group to upgrade - we are just done
As the flaming goes on in this forum so would trying to work with 'some' for you in a group.

Sorry not for me - you wanta be tough guy - 1 on 1 - I'll do you in - I don't need or want to rely on 'anyone' else.

And I do NOT feel that to make even the top rank anyone should have to

Signed. I did the same well got to ra alone.

Edit--Don't know if there's really any flaming going on but solok and the players like him just don't want there to be any solo stfs because they want us to have to group to see the entire storyline and I'm just not okay with being forced to group.

[Archived Post]

That's ultimately the problem with STFs.

The reason why no one can find a group for STFs is because they are insanely tedious, uninspired, zergfest grudge matches with broken mechanics.

There really isn't a need to make them Solo, but it does however side step the real problem and places a band-aid over it.

STFs need to be refactored period and give it a difficulty slider for those who want a harder challenge(heroic mode).

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You make good points. But I was responding to some people who were stating they never ever want to play with anyone and I was just thinking that was odd since this is an MMO.


People in MMO's have over the years been forced into situations but just in different ways. I remember playing UO and having to kill skeletons in brit graveyard with the other newbs to get gold, and having to band together against pk's to save our tiny amount of loot, and I met some of the best friends in that game in that manner.

So maybe game mechanics didnt force us together, external forces did. Unfortunately in STO there arent many open areas where people can group up for mutual benefit and therefore meet. So they need to auto-group.

And it makes sense too. Starfleet wouldnt send one ship to fight an entire klingon fleet. You would be ordered to group up with other captains (whether you liked them or not) to complete the assigned mission.

There aren't many missions where you are sent to fight a fleet or anything on a scale that would require a fleet though. Most of the missions are of a covert play style. Which is why, I for one, think that having th e ability to solo them should be a given for all missions, including the STFs.

Even in the mission descriptions, it tells you you've lost contact with a starbase, go check it out. Starfleet wouldn't send a whole fleet, they'd send a ship. Hence why making it soloable would seem to fit with the mission itself.

Teaming up should be optional for the missions. I see your point, there aren't many areas where you can go and say "Hey I need help with X mission", the only real place you can do that is in Sector Space. Still doesn't negate the point, making the missions team only is cutting out a lot of the playerbase, since its difficult to find a team.

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That's ultimately the problem with STFs.

The reason why no one can find a group for STFs is because they are insanely tedious, uninspired, zergfest grudge matches with broken mechanics.

There really isn't a need to make them Solo, but it does however side step the real problem and places a band-aid over it.

STFs need to be refactored period and give it a difficulty slider for those who want a harder challenge(heroic mode).

Agreed, STFs are just a pain to do even with non PUG groups, its a nightmare to do with a PUG group. Infected, Cure and Terradome aren't to bad but someone please look into changing KA, I cringe from the second I enter the instance till the last ship at the end of the encounter.

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OK this is why when I started STO in Feb I paid others to help me make a Fleet "Nomads"
They knew I was going to kick them as soon as I paid them and all was good with that.

I do NOT want to be hounded to join someones Fleet
I do NOT want to be forced to 'team' with unknown folks
I do PvE only as this is the solo player route
I made RA in 31 days - ALONE

If/when I find folks that I feel are reasonable enought to work with I will invite them in.
I have did all that I have did in 'deep space' encounters - I have did very few missions as I wanted to save building the points for level upgrades later.

Yes I did 'grind' and worked my butt of to make RA (alone) and save 'most' missions for points later.

Now 'some' folks want to limit me as in to get to a higher rank because I will not group or PvP.

I just say NO - there are many folks in the player base that are just like me.
IF we must group to upgrade - we are just done
As the flaming goes on in this forum so would trying to work with 'some' for you in a group.

Sorry not for me - you wanta be tough guy - 1 on 1 - I'll do you in - I don't need or want to rely on 'anyone' else.

And I do NOT feel that to make even the top rank anyone should have to group

(disclaimer: I will admit that I didn't read the whole 7 pages in front of this post, so if I rehash something that was already agrued in the middle of page 4, sorry. :) )

I am with you. I have one character who is RA, and I worked my butt off solo (except where you are patrolling and forced onto a team) to get her there. She is not made to work in a group, and I should not be forced to group up to see all the content of a game I am subscribing to.

One other argument I would like to make for solo STF's is this: I only play 1-3 hours a night 3 or 4 times a week. I am almost 40 and have a family that I have a responsibility to. Because of this I am not interested in joining a fleet unless it is a fleet of real world friends. I just don't have time to devote to a fleet. As none of my real world friends want to play this, that means I am SOL. Also, I use this game to unwind after work or before bed to unwind. I don't care about the social aspect of the game, when I start it up I want to go play, not chat. Does this mean I should be penalized by not getting to play all the content of the game? I mean, heck, I pay a subscription price, should I get a discount because with STF's being only done by a group I cannot play all of the content of this game? You know, maybe $10.95/mo for a solo only subscription? I would not care then...I would get what I was paying for then.

I do realize it is an MMO. You are supposed to be social. I don't have interest in that. I have real world friends and family to socialize with. When I start up STO I want to play. That's why my vote is for solo STF's :)

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



This argument has really become moot. As more and more PC titles become MMOs and very few single player titles hit PC (Thank you digital pirates...) MMOs need to embrace that audience which has been left adrift by no fault of there own, except for those who were the pirates.

In other words, MMOs will continue to embrace more and more solo type content because there is a MASSIVE demand for games with that level of content. If games can deliver both compelling group content and decent solo, those games will succeed!

[Archived Post]

(disclaimer: I will admit that I didn't read the whole 7 pages in front of this post, so if I rehash something that was already agrued in the middle of page 4, sorry. :) )

I am with you. I have one character who is RA, and I worked my butt off solo (except where you are patrolling and forced onto a team) to get her there. She is not made to work in a group, and I should not be forced to group up to see all the content of a game I am subscribing to.

One other argument I would like to make for solo STF's is this: I only play 1-3 hours a night 3 or 4 times a week. I am almost 40 and have a family that I have a responsibility to. Because of this I am not interested in joining a fleet unless it is a fleet of real world friends. I just don't have time to devote to a fleet. As none of my real world friends want to play this, that means I am SOL. Also, I use this game to unwind after work or before bed to unwind. I don't care about the social aspect of the game, when I start it up I want to go play, not chat. Does this mean I should be penalized by not getting to play all the content of the game? I mean, heck, I pay a subscription price, should I get a discount because with STF's being only done by a group I cannot play all of the content of this game? You know, maybe $10.95/mo for a solo only subscription? I would not care then...I would get what I was paying for then.

I do realize it is an MMO. You are supposed to be social. I don't have interest in that. I have real world friends and family to socialize with. When I start up STO I want to play. That's why my vote is for solo STF's :)

signed and I'm with you on that.

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That's ultimately the problem with STFs.

The reason why no one can find a group for STFs is because they are insanely tedious, uninspired, zergfest grudge matches with broken mechanics.

There really isn't a need to make them Solo, but it does however side step the real problem and places a band-aid over it.

STFs need to be refactored period and give it a difficulty slider for those who want a harder challenge(heroic mode).

100% agreed, take the Crystalline Enitity mission for instance, there was a time you could never find it up, it was a fun mission and people where doing it. Then they 'fixed' it and now its up all time because its tedious, frustrating, boring and worse of all it just takes ONE person to ruin the entire battle.

Between things like that and STFs, I think dstahl should consider taking a look at what makes these missions unappealing to alot of people as STFs in the first place.

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Sorry OP but I disagree as well. The STFs are poor anyway.

Get with the DDO model program that has no been activated. Difficulty slider dungeons down to solo.

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100% agreed, take the Crystalline Enitity mission for instance, there was a time you could never find it up, it was a fun mission and people where doing it. Then they 'fixed' it and now its up all time because its tedious, frustrating, boring and worse of all it just takes ONE person to ruin the entire battle.

Between things like that and STFs, I think dstahl should consider taking a look at what makes these missions unappealing to alot of people as STFs in the first place.

I actually would love to do infected solo with my away team.

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I agree with the OP's suggestion... Don't make a solo version of the STFs... rather make a solo/standard quest series that leads up to the the STF itself. The STFs are supposed to be the part of the game that encourages people to group up. That shouldn't change. But nothing is harmed by giving solo players more to do. And making it repeatable...

In all honesty, this game needs playground content more than anything else. Stuff that is not exactly sandbox but not exactly themepark either, but a hybrid of the two. Repeatable content that has an on-going effect on the galaxy, or at least in a given sector. Things with event triggers and such that certain actions or inactions can cause to happen... Like if not enough federation ships patrol the Neutral Zone each week, the following day will have several squadrons of Klingon ships crossing into Federation Space, taking advantage of Starfleet's lack of vigilance.

And really, we need to have mining and shipment and the need for escort and defensive missions... There needs to be the ability and reason for Klingons to attack or at least threaten Federation interests, and vice versa.

I would honestly rather see this sort of thing developed and implemented rather than anything else... Because it becomes on-going content which players on both sides can influence, and actually see results...

[Archived Post]

I agree with the OP's suggestion... Don't make a solo version of the STFs... rather make a solo/standard quest series that leads up to the the STF itself. The STFs are supposed to be the part of the game that encourages people to group up. That shouldn't change. But nothing is harmed by giving solo players more to do. And making it repeatable...

In all honesty, this game needs playground content more than anything else. Stuff that is not exactly sandbox but not exactly themepark either, but a hybrid of the two. Repeatable content that has an on-going effect on the galaxy, or at least in a given sector. Things with event triggers and such that certain actions or inactions can cause to happen... Like if not enough federation ships patrol the Neutral Zone each week, the following day will have several squadrons of Klingon ships crossing into Federation Space, taking advantage of Starfleet's lack of vigilance.

And really, we need to have mining and shipment and the need for escort and defensive missions... There needs to be the ability and reason for Klingons to attack or at least threaten Federation interests, and vice versa.

I would honestly rather see this sort of thing developed and implemented rather than anything else... Because it becomes on-going content which players on both sides can influence, and actually see results...



well i hate to tell you buddy but you and the people who like to force others to group are not likely going to get your way.

[Archived Post]

I agree with the OP's suggestion... Don't make a solo version of the STFs... rather make a solo/standard quest series that leads up to the the STF itself. The STFs are supposed to be the part of the game that encourages people to group up. That shouldn't change. But nothing is harmed by giving solo players more to do. And making it repeatable...

In all honesty, this game needs playground content more than anything else. Stuff that is not exactly sandbox but not exactly themepark either, but a hybrid of the two. Repeatable content that has an on-going effect on the galaxy, or at least in a given sector. Things with event triggers and such that certain actions or inactions can cause to happen... Like if not enough federation ships patrol the Neutral Zone each week, the following day will have several squadrons of Klingon ships crossing into Federation Space, taking advantage of Starfleet's lack of vigilance.

And really, we need to have mining and shipment and the need for escort and defensive missions... There needs to be the ability and reason for Klingons to attack or at least threaten Federation interests, and vice versa.

I would honestly rather see this sort of thing developed and implemented rather than anything else... Because it becomes on-going content which players on both sides can influence, and actually see results...

The Fleet folks and the PvP'er are trying to make it so IF folks don't do all the STF's and accolade's WE SOLO player can NOT make - it to the top ranks - SO to listen to the 'Fleet' and/or "PvP'ers" I as a solo player am BANNED from the top ranks - This is Wrong and a disservice to a bunch of the player base - OK really look at the posts here - How many of the solo players are 'Lifetime' members

Think about it - there is a reason for it!!

Yes to Solo STF's

If you have a need to control others - it's NOT here in STO - Live with it !!!!

[Archived Post]

The Fleet folks and the PvP'er are trying to make it so IF folks don't do all the STF's and accolade's WE SOLO player can NOT make - it to the top ranks - SO to listen to the 'Fleet' and/or "PvP'ers" I as a solo player am BANNED from the top ranks - This is Wrong and a disservice to a bunch of the player base - OK really look at the posts here - How many of the solo players are 'Lifetime' members

Think about it - there is a reason for it!!

Yes to Solo STF's

If you have a need to control others - it's NOT here in STO - Live with it !!!!

that's why i came to star trek online because it was more solo friendly well that and I love star trek. and now I'm finding out there are players who are trying to control who has access to content. pitiful

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that's why i came to star trek online because it was more solo friendly well that and I love star trek. and now I'm finding out there are players who are trying to control who has access to content. pitiful

Same here. I have 4 or 5 friends who play WoW, and have tried to get me to play since it came out. I am just not really interested in playing with other players that much. I bought this game because it is Star Trek, and I have loved Star Trek all my life. I did not buy this game because it is an MMO. I would love this game even if it was a single player game. It is kinda Starfleet Command meets STV: Elite Force. I loved the heck out of both of those games as single player games. I don't think I played either online more than once.

Those of you who are playing this game because it is an MMO, more power to you. I don't want to take away from your enjoyment of the game. I would just like to enjoy the whole thing too.....the way I, as a paying subscriber, wants to. That's all :cool:

[Archived Post]

Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



Fleet Actions still exist, and will be expanded on, STFs are key parts of the story line, and should have a solo mode, with lesser rewards, so that the story can be seen. Its also a way to open up more dailies for tokens.

[Archived Post]

Same here. I have 4 or 5 friends who play WoW, and have tried to get me to play since it came out. I am just not really interested in playing with other players that much. I bought this game because it is Star Trek, and I have loved Star Trek all my life. I did not buy this game because it is an MMO. I would love this game even if it was a single player game. It is kinda Starfleet Command meets STV: Elite Force. I loved the heck out of both of those games as single player games. I don't think I played either online more than once.

Those of you who are playing this game because it is an MMO, more power to you. I don't want to take away from your enjoyment of the game. I would just like to enjoy the whole thing too.....the way I, as a paying subscriber, wants to. That's all :cool:

exactly my feelings exactly

[Archived Post]

Having solo STFs without badges and purples. Would give those players who don't want to group the chance to run them and see the content. They may live in a time zone where it's almost impossible to get a group. It would also give players the experience to make the normal STFs better. More people would know what to do and make groups better and faster. It might even make them want to play with groups more for the better loot. More options will make ths game better.

[Archived Post]

The solution to empty fleet actions and STF is not to let single player peeps play them solo. FIX the problems that are making the universe emptier and emptier on a daily basis.

[Archived Post]

Meh... even if they let us take BOs into the current STFs, they would still be the same ridiculously-designed crap.

[Archived Post]

Meh... even if they let us take BOs into the current STFs, they would still be the same ridiculously-designed crap.

But at least everyone would have the chance to play the ridiculously designed crap.

[Archived Post]

But at least everyone would have the chance to play the ridiculously designed crap.

I would prefer a solution that involved less "ridiculous" and "crap", myself.

Then again, "Assimilated" on Tribble is about as annoying as The Cure, so I guess the people who wanted soloable ones are getting their wish...

[Archived Post]

There seems to be to much focus on clearing trash mobs in this game. Killing wave after wave after wave of mobs is good in zombie movies. It gets really boring fast and frustrating in video games.

[Archived Post]

The solution to empty fleet actions and STF is not to let single player peeps play them solo. FIX the problems that are making the universe emptier and emptier on a daily basis.

wow I had no idea there were so many selfish players in star trek online that want to force people to group with others.

[Archived Post]

I would prefer a solution that involved less "ridiculous" and "crap", myself.

Then again, "Assimilated" on Tribble is about as annoying as The Cure, so I guess the people who wanted soloable ones are getting their wish...

Oh hell. That one is damn annoying. I hope they're coming up with some better missions than that.

I agree with you, we need something better to do, but in the mean time, the might appease some people if it is opened up. At least then it gives us the chance to do it and see what everyone else hates about it.

[Archived Post]

Suppose I'll join in here. Being someone who solos 99.9% of the time, I'd be quite happy if they made it possible for me to do the STFs. As it is, I've never even attempted one and don't plan to.

This kind of thing always gets the "you shouldn't play an MMO if you won't team" responses, but of course I disagree with them. There's a lot of players. Maybe I want to play with them, maybe I don't. I'm not (entirely) antisocial. I'm co-leader of a fleet or two and talk a good amount in a global channel.

Let me put it this way: Just because it's an MMO doesn't mean it has no merit outside of group play. If the game is fun, the game is fun. People who don't want to team can have fun in MMOs too. There is no singleplayer version of this, or most other MMOs.

And then of course there's those who believe that any equipment worth having should only be available to people who do whatever content requires the most players. I disagree with that too, naturally. Let them have more of whatever, but make it POSSIBLE to get it solo.

I like how City of Heroes does this, with merits. (Just merits. No merits of X or merits of Y or merits 2nd order. Merits are merits.) In CoH, any story arc will give some merits, and you can buy pretty much anything with enough merits. However, TFs (which require a team) give far more merits than story arcs, so it's much quicker to get things that way. But solo players can still get them.


Also, as an aside, I do quite like Fleet Actions (aside from Crystalline Entity, since it's so tedious). They allow you to fight in large battles together with other people without actually needing to team. It's more like a zone event than some kind of raid. I figured that this would be the way things would be throughout the game, and at the beginning it was... But then the first few months of live saw almost nothing but forced teaming content, and I stopped playing for a while as there was nothing for me to do after getting two Feds and a Klingon to max level.

[Archived Post]

I would agree with keeping them group oriented, BUT, they need to start listening to the players. If we are telling them that doing X in this part of STF-X's mission is too hard, ridiculous, time consuming, etc, then they should work with us to improve them. As far as I've seen, they haven't listened to any of the complaints about the STF's.

This.

I feel that STFs should maintain a group only state, but they do need some work. There could be alot more fun to had with these missions if proper adjustments were made. Utilizing the difficulty slider is a great way to achieve this, so everyone can be happy with the challenge they meet. If this was properly tended to, then people probably wouldn't have remotely as difficult a time trying to round a team up for a run, because more players will actually want to do the missions!

On a side note, I also feel it's important that Cryptic looks into implementing more group only missions along the level arc. They are nice to have at any level, not just RA5 and beyond...

[Archived Post]

Sometimes I just want to hop into some of them for no reason on occasion. By myself. Or with a buddy. We end up not doing them a lot because it is annoying getting a good group together.

Scale loot back so we aren't getting the epic purplz we would in the normal version. I'd not mind that at all.

Remember people, more options are good for all! More to do and all. And we NEED more to do.

[Archived Post]

In a Hailing Frequencies recent broadcast (http://shows.hailingfrequency.com/HF-SE-11072010.mp3) Daniel Stahl speaks about making solo-friendly versions of the STF's, if I understood correctly.

I would like to urge, plea and even beg Cryptic not to do this!

Please Cryptic, instead of making solo-friendly STF's make a pack of solo-friendly missions leading up to the STF's and following up to them, instead of making the STF's themselves solo-friendly.

My reasoning for this, is that the STF's themselves, in my opinion, should remain challenging group-based content, but fleshing them out in a way that allows us to feel STAR TREK'ly heroic (i.e. solo-friendly) could definitely get more people to want to attempt the STF's, while allowing Cryptic to flesh out the stories of the STF's themselves without actively changing the STF's.

Thank you. :D

I disagree with this. However, I can understand this plea. I have a limited time to play every day, and when I do chose to play I don't want to sit in SOL station lfg for god knows how long just to get an stf done that may take 4 or 5 hours to get done, depending on the competency of the group.

Furthermore, I tend to group with a good friend of mine and we have discussed this very topic. While we feel for the "raid mentality" that these should be left alone, we agreed they should be accessible to anyone any time. Star Trek On-line's main draw for me was that it is a social game, but you don't have to be forced to play in a group. Leaving the STF's to be group only would be a mistake, maybe not a mistake, but it would alienate those of us that aren't in a great fleet or don't have the time to get on and LFG for 3 hours just to do a 3+ hour mission.

I think the idea to take these missions and create solo-small group versions and removing the "group gimmicks" is the way to go.

Again I feel for those that want to keep them the way they are (with some obvious needed improvements. However, I think a difficulty slider type option (much like LOTRO's skirmish system) would be well accepted. Solo, small group, group, fleet, this would give a higher range of playability for everyone of the various play styles.

This would provide everyone with the accessability to do them, learn them, and "graduate" to the group versions. I have seen a lot of groups LFM for the STF's and saying "no noobs" I have only ever done Infected twice, I have done the cure once and have never had a chance to get into terradome or khittimer accord (I really want that borg BO). Though, because I am "a noob" I have been rejected from groups, so I stopped "applying." Bleh enough ranting.

I say bring on the solo versions. Bring on the small group versions!

[Archived Post]

Solo friendly STFs would be nice, and I would not have a problem with such a move if they want to go that rout.
I would support Solo friendly STFs.

In another game I play off and on you could go all the way through the end-game with just henchmen and the game was no less challenging imo, in fact it made the game even more fun and sometimes more challenging if you took AI units.
To my knoweledge that game is still around and the company is even working on a sequal, so I don't see how making end-game a little more adjustable would nec hurt anyone.

If you don't want to solo, then don't, up the difficulty and run them on hardmodes with your fleet.
If you only have an hour or 2 worth of play time a nite, start up a solo STF with your BOs and work on it at your leisure.

Think how much more content there would be to work on.
Solo mode (you can have your BOs), normal (group), advanced (group),and elite (not even Q could get you outta this mess/group).

I see no harm in a solo friendly STFs with reduced gear drops and even no valor tokens.
I do still think you should at least get badge credit for accolades if you are going to strip down the gear.
The player needs to at least get something for the run besides a couple greens that they could get all day long running explorations.
Perhaps instead of valor tokens you get a couple marks of exploration like the b'tran daily token reward.

[Archived Post]

/signed.

MMO's in general have content that is "group only" content. WoW has the high end raids, CoH has the Hamidon Raid and TF/SF, just to name a few. You can still get through the main STO game solo if you wish. The main story points are touched without the STFs. Not to mention there are a lot of complaints on these boards about the game not being very social friendly and having too much solo gameplay.

If anything they could take the STF's out of the "standard" missions and make a special note on the captain that gives them that missions he assigns are group missions. That way you know when you take them it is meant for group content. If you want to play solo don't take them, otherwise find a PUG, Fleet, whatever and enjoy.

That's my opinion though. If they did make the STFs soloable then I think there should be no purple gear for it. Blue gear completion reward and lower during the STF only. That way if you really want the high end rewards then you need to go through the challenge of playing with others and the higher difficulty.

No.

Aaaand, No.

The reason being, is that gear should never become a measure of skill, if you think you are so skilled you should have no problem with everyone else being in purples as you well obviously work more efficiently towards a goal. Gear is overused, in fact it is a retarded system that has created problems and gaps in progression in every game and series except the diablo series. The emphasis on "Purple loots" most likely originated in the diablo series AND THAT WAS A SINGLE PLAYER GAME.

Ahem, people who have succeeded in the art of WoW and now play this game, seem to generally like parading around in good gears that they got only because they can spend hours on end in a space dungeon with their fellow Guild Fleetmates. This however doesn't make him/her more skilled than the next person, who could probably erase his/her delusions of grandeur with a nice disruptor tan. What defines a player as being more skilled than someone else is his/her skill. Not the shiny hubcaps that you wear in Starbase Stormwind.

See what happens is this, when you need gear to run a raid, you need to get it from somewhere. And that somewhere often demands that you be geared to get the gear for THE RAID to get The Gear. If you wait until that Raid is old news then it might be easier, but then people might no longer be running it. Very few people except for pro guild fleets who are already packed to capacity can run these and then the developers wonder: "why are we putting in thousands of dollars into this end game content when a very small minority is consuming the content? And we are losing Subs because players are saying the game is inaccessible. We are losing the market in which we are advertising to, solutions anyone? Developer 2: Let's nerf everything in the next expansion pack and see how that plays out. "

So in the end you have content that has disenfranchised the pro raiding league players, and gameplay that is still inaccessible and/or boring to the casual crowd (everyone else). Not good, for the players or for the developers. The rest of the players have to deal with spinning their wheels to the tune of 15 dollars a month, while watching high level guildies run around with fantabulous gear, owning and subsequently unbalancing the pvp environment while they are at it even as they turn around and complain of the ease at which they got that gear (a nerf not really aimed at them). It gets especially bad when those who play specifically for the storyline are locked out of "epic" (that word is so overused) story conclusions and the only thing they see at the end of the day is the brick wall and the addition of more bits of lore goodness beyond.

This is also why I play EvE, it is a sandbox/jungle, where many unwelcome and venomous creatures lie but everything is still "technically" available to everyone from the outset, you can even buy plex and sell it for isk legally and legitimately through CCP which can save a lot of head aches and brace the player for their participation in their chosen role (it also cuts into the RMT gold farmers real badly and makes it less pervasive than other games), hang out with your friends online, and if you get into a good alliance/coalition you can still use a tech 1 frigate to great effectiveness in pvp fleet action.

At the end of the day I guess I mean to say that, there are more creative formulas that can encourage growth and participation among the player base without having to rely on samey linear progression and grind-fest formulas. A way to promote fun and activity without making a complete theme park out of it where everyone stands in line and insuring that grouping is something fun to do and not something REQUIRED that makes you want to throttle your fellow man until they breathe no more. The STF system is only good as a temporary hook, but if anything you should look to games like Judgment Rites, Myst, or Uru (PVE) for a little bit of inspiration on the meat that is to go on the bones of this Star Trek game. You should not neglect the PvP crowd, if you make PvP compelling with tangible rewards for instance: conquest and the art of subjugation can be a quite a lure, especially if you are able to factor everything like the economy, the logistics, and the strategy (aka the Big Picture).

This concludes my essay, and sorry if it seems like I have something against WoW raiders it is more of a involuntary reflex than anything else but I like you all the same you gaming veterans.

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Also if you really must be advertised as officer of the universe, then evolve the current accolades system to include visible "Fruit Salad" for your dress uniforms. In short implement a system of decorations and certifications.

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



I've said this before - Life is massive multiplayer, but it doen't mean I have to eat with you, listen to your music or wonder what that strange smell in your garage is. Just because we're all here doesn't mean we have to do anything together unless we want to.

We all like Trek to some extent or we wouldn't be here, but we all like Trek differently. I like my Trek 'One Captain, one crew, one ship' for missions.

Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Archer didn't get on the subspace radio every week saying Cruiser LFG, they did the missions. I like being IN a world with other players but it doesn't mean I NEED them to get stuff done. Fleet actions are where I get my work with others fix and I enjoy those but missions are for ME and me alone.

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I've said this before - Life is massive multiplayer, but it doen't mean I have to eat with you, listen to your music or wonder what that strange smell in your garage is. Just because we're all here doesn't mean we have to do anything together unless we want to.

We all like Trek to some extent or we wouldn't be here, but we all like Trek differently. I like my Trek 'One Captain, one crew, one ship' for missions.

Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Archer didn't get on the subspace radio every week saying Cruiser LFG, they did the missions. I like being IN a world with other players but it doesn't mean I NEED them to get stuff done. Fleet actions are where I get my work with others fix and I enjoy those but missions are for ME and me alone.

kudos here here. your right. but until those players that want to force us into grouping either quit playing the game and go back to games like wow or everquest we're stuck with them trying to force us to group and we're stuck with them trying to force the developers into turning end game content into a 40 man raid system.

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I've said this before - Life is massive multiplayer, but it doen't mean I have to eat with you, listen to your music or wonder what that strange smell in your garage is. Just because we're all here doesn't mean we have to do anything together unless we want to.

We all like Trek to some extent or we wouldn't be here, but we all like Trek differently. I like my Trek 'One Captain, one crew, one ship' for missions.

Kirk/Picard/Janeway/Archer didn't get on the subspace radio every week saying Cruiser LFG, they did the missions. I like being IN a world with other players but it doesn't mean I NEED them to get stuff done. Fleet actions are where I get my work with others fix and I enjoy those but missions are for ME and me alone.

Very good point, its CANON not to group. The only real time you saw them Grouping in Star Trek is for Fleet Actions in DS9 and against the Borg in TNG. Otherwise its One Ship, One crew.

Im sure Voyager would have just *loved" to spam Subspace with T4 Sci Ship LFG to fight Borg Queen

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Very good point, its CANON not to group. The only real time you saw them Grouping in Star Trek is for Fleet Actions in DS9 and against the Borg in TNG. Otherwise its One Ship, One crew.

Im sure Voyager would have just *loved" to spam Subspace with T4 Sci Ship LFG to fight Borg Queen

that's hillarious. better be careful though you might make those people who think we should be forced to group upset. they might report us all.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

i agree here.

I would agree with keeping them group oriented, BUT, they need to start listening to the players. If we are telling them that doing X in this part of STF-X's mission is too hard, ridiculous, time consuming, etc, then they should work with us to improve them. As far as I've seen, they haven't listened to any of the complaints about the STF's.

they have listened and changed them, take the first one for example, people were saying that it was to hard to get through the base as there were far to many drones protecting each node, so they cut down on the "yard trash"

I disagree, I'm all for a difficulty slider for it. I'm in STO for the story, and finding a PUG that doesn't suck has left several parts of the story out of my reach.

agreed.


I'm alright with solo-STFs, but I demand the following if Cryptic is determined to go that route:

Remove the purple loots from solo runs
Remove the marks of valor from the solo runs

That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

maybe get remove the purple drops(unless on a higher difficulty setting) but keep the marks, though, i could agree with just a portion instead of not getting the full amount of marks.you get three marks for a group, maybe only one for solo.

anyway, i like the idea of making a solo version of these quests, i spent hours trying to find a group without luck, should those of us unable or un-wanting to group be punished for that?

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kudos here here. your right. but until those players that want to force us into grouping either quit playing the game and go back to games like wow or everquest we're stuck with them trying to force us to group and we're stuck with them trying to force the developers into turning end game content into a 40 man raid system.

whats wrong with everquest?:(wow is the evil one.

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whats wrong with everquest?:(wow is the evil one.

WoW could have been something special, but it abandoned most of it's legacy to become Everquest light, Everquest should never be a standard for excellence. WoW 's failings are because they frequently ape Everquest, having also employed former developers.

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

I agree completely! Yes to a solo version!

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That way there's a much greater incentive to run the STFs properly (i.e. with a group) rather than farm them solo.

Just took the above as an example of what the 'group only' crew seems to want, not trolling the poster.

My question - what is inherently better about running an STF with a group? Why is this THE way to play an MMO?

My answer - nothing and it isn't. It is all just preference. This is exactly like all the lobbying for a DP a while back. Cryptic handled that one well. Trust they will do the same here, options are good....

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An addendum, just before anyone brings up the fact that WoW has been the most successful MMO, this is mostly because they lure and advertise accessibility to the masses and true it does seem accessible and it does get a lot of people to play who normally wouldn't touch games like EQ or FFXI (with it's harsh death penalty and the fact you need a group for EVERYTHING).

But the aforementioned wall I was referring to in my wall of text, was cause for enough discontent that expansion packs were nerfed into near oblivion for the pro guilds yet still inaccessible to the casual market. They are still on top, but normally you do not fix (or at least attempt to fix) something that is not broken. Something would have had to have influenced the changes from vanilla to the expansions. It is not hard to see, and you really cannot deny it. If Blizzard didn't think they needed to fix anything urgently then they would have left it alone and all endgame content in BC and WOTLK would have been 40 mans.

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well i hate to tell you buddy but you and the people who like to force others to group are not likely going to get your way.

Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

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Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

It is and has always been a method of forcing people to group, often with unsuccessful results and loss of customers. Especially if you are going to attach lore to it. If this were a Freemium title I would not complain as much and being a Lifetimer makes me exempt from spinning my wheels for the most part. But others did not make that commitment, and believe me when you are going nowhere fast and grinding till your brain turns to mush, IT IS NOT FUN. That is what a game is at it's core supposed to be about, FUN. Developers and gamers alike seem to lose this concept in a sea of money and competition.

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Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

Wanna do PVE solo? Check. Group? Check.

Wanna do PVP solo? Check. Group? Check.

Wanna do STF's solo? No sorry, pal, you can't. Group? Check.

Is the sub fee of someone that prefers to solo not as good? Are they able to pay a reduced rate since they don't wish to group and therefore are currently excluded from some end game content? Nope.

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Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

And those who do not want to group get to miss out completely on the little end game content that we have.

No, it is there and is basically saying group or don't do it, since those are your only choices. We should be able to choose whether we do it in a group or solo, not be forced to group to do something.
The storyline of the game has been building to these missions and those who do not want to group, or simply cannot find a group to do the missions miss out on the story because of this.

Grouping for the STFs should be an option, not a neccessity.

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The Fleet folks and the PvP'er are trying to make it so IF folks don't do all the STF's and accolade's WE SOLO player can NOT make - it to the top ranks - SO to listen to the 'Fleet' and/or "PvP'ers" I as a solo player am BANNED from the top ranks - This is Wrong and a disservice to a bunch of the player base - OK really look at the posts here - How many of the solo players are 'Lifetime' members

Think about it - there is a reason for it!!

Yes to Solo STF's

If you have a need to control others - it's NOT here in STO - Live with it !!!!

Let me ask you this... Do you need anything gained from going through STFs to be able to complete all the solo missions the game has? What's that? You DON'T?

They have give you the means of soloing your way to max. You've got all of those solo-able missions, plus exploration, and soon first contact and diplomatic missions. You've got solo content everywhere. And you can get through all of it with the stuff you earn by doing it.

And just for the record, I am a casual player who flies solo most of the time. I don't PvP. And I have no interest in STFs.

How much group-based content does the game have compared to soloable content? Not much. So I say let the people who want to group have unique content for them and let us soloers have unique content for us.

If they DO make solo versions of the STFs, then they need to pay out rewards suitable for solo content.

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You need give equal opportunities for advancement, and you need to make both paths challenging and rewarding, do not hold one group on a higher pedestal then the next. Even if they think they are god gift to gaming, which they are not. Ugh, I swear, MMO's nowadays are more about the pointless grind with out emphasis on the world around them or the gameplay mechanics.

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When there is nothing left to run and the only way to see new content or to see the rest of the story is through STFs you are in a sense forced to group.

What some may call optional others call forced, it is all in how you look at it.
I look at it as forced, as I am forced to group if I want to see new content or just see the rest of the story.

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Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

the storyline shouldn't be optional. I pay the same fee you do unless cryptic is willing to give me a discount like everyone else thinks since I don't like to be forced into grouping to see all the storyline.

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Let me ask you this... Do you need anything gained from going through STFs to be able to complete all the solo missions the game has? What's that? You DON'T?

They have give you the means of soloing your way to max. You've got all of those solo-able missions, plus exploration, and soon first contact and diplomatic missions. You've got solo content everywhere. And you can get through all of it with the stuff you earn by doing it.

And just for the record, I am a casual player who flies solo most of the time. I don't PvP. And I have no interest in STFs.

How much group-based content does the game have compared to soloable content? Not much. So I say let the people who want to group have unique content for them and let us soloers have unique content for us.

If they DO make solo versions of the STFs, then they need to pay out rewards suitable for solo content.

Again you are going on the basis that one group is greater than the other. This is a big problem in games nowadays, a solo players money should be just as good as a group player, and gameplay should always result in fun. There should be no exclusive path to success, there should be challenges in all paths, and it will take a creative developer to flesh them out. It isn't all about the mob grind. No group should be rewarded more than the next. Especially when it comes to the subject of lore.

[Archived Post]

Wanna do PVE solo? Check. Group? Check.

Wanna do PVP solo? Check. Group? Check.

Wanna do STF's solo? No sorry, pal, you can't. Group? Check.

Is the sub fee of someone that prefers to solo not as good? Are they able to pay a reduced rate since they don't wish to group and therefore are currently excluded from some end game content? Nope.

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to.

If you want to see content intended for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.

Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?

If they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.

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Let me ask you this... Do you need anything gained from going through STFs to be able to complete all the solo missions the game has? What's that? You DON'T?

They have give you the means of soloing your way to max. You've got all of those solo-able missions, plus exploration, and soon first contact and diplomatic missions. You've got solo content everywhere. And you can get through all of it with the stuff you earn by doing it.

And just for the record, I am a casual player who flies solo most of the time. I don't PvP. And I have no interest in STFs.

How much group-based content does the game have compared to soloable content? Not much. So I say let the people who want to group have unique content for them and let us soloers have unique content for us.

If they DO make solo versions of the STFs, then they need to pay out rewards suitable for solo content.

Every single mission is a group mission, there are no solo only ones. They ARE playble solo but since you can group in all of them so that does make them group missions.

[Archived Post]

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to.

If you want to see content intended for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.

Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?

If they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.

They can have their content at their difficulty, and if they can bring their group along for the ride then, YAY. But again, the way this always turns out is the holding of one group above the other creating a privileged minority, like WoW. Why can you not just creatively tailor the level so that anyone can go through it and have the challenge scale according, you can make some extremely hard SP missions and then you can make an MP mission that scales acceptably for their group. They need to revamp the away team controls, it is a tall order, especially in jumpy area for the infected. (your away team will be taking a plasma dip a lot).

[Archived Post]

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to.

If you want to see content intended for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.

Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?

If they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.


Um please don't be selfish with storyline lore ty

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They can have their content at their difficulty, and if they can bring their group along for the ride then, YAY. But again, the way this always turns out is the holding of one group above the other creating a privileged minority, like WoW. Why can you not just creatively tailor the level so that anyone can go through it and have the challenge scale according, you can make some extremely hard SP missions and then you can make an MP mission that scales acceptably for their group. They need to revamp the away team controls, it is a tall order, especially in jumpy area for the infected. (your away team will be taking a plasma dip a lot).

just remove the plasma

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could have both ...

LOTRO does it really well with thier epic quests.

You can either get a group to run it,

or

You can solo it, you get an 'inspiration' boost, and can solo the same instance.


it's fun as hell !.... yes hell !! lol.

you can take on cave trolls..... oh ya.



so if you feel like a team or not.... they solved the problem and pleased both parties.


(( edit: I think the XP is better with the team and quite a few more mobs, which is how it should be I suppose...... ))


.

[Archived Post]

Nobody's forcing anyone to group... The STFs are completely optional. They are there for people who WANT to group.

and for those of us that spend hours looking for a group but are unable to find one, your fine with us being punished for something out of our control?

Let me ask you this... Do you need anything gained from going through STFs to be able to complete all the solo missions the game has? What's that? You DON'T?

They have give you the means of soloing your way to max. You've got all of those solo-able missions, plus exploration, and soon first contact and diplomatic missions. You've got solo content everywhere. And you can get through all of it with the stuff you earn by doing it.

And just for the record, I am a casual player who flies solo most of the time. I don't PvP. And I have no interest in STFs.

How much group-based content does the game have compared to soloable content? Not much. So I say let the people who want to group have unique content for them and let us soloers have unique content for us.

If they DO make solo versions of the STFs, then they need to pay out rewards suitable for solo content.

depends, if your doing the story missions to know the story, then yes.the stf tie into the storyline.

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to.

If you want to see content intended for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.

Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?

If they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.

with everquest and everquest 2 along with nearly every mmo i have played, they give you a way to experience and finish what would normally be a raid with only a small group or even by yourself. if someone is unable or does not want to group but still wants to play through the story, should they be punished?

Um please don't be selfish with storyline lore ty
this.

[Archived Post]

that would work great with STO missions.


Take a team to complete it or not... you choose.


Better xp and more mobs for the teams...harder mobs too.


solo it could work almost as a one captain against another scenario.....

( on another note: be nice if devs added audio chatter coming from enemies....taunting you...or pleading for mercy... depending on who's getting spanked )

[Archived Post]

could have both ...

LOTRO does it really well with thier epic quests.

You can either get a group to run it,

or

You can solo it, you get an 'inspiration' boost, and can solo the same instance.


it's fun as hell !.... yes hell !! lol.

you can take on cave trolls..... oh ya.



so if you feel like a team or not.... they solved the problem and pleased both parties.


(( edit: I think the XP is better with the team and quite a few more mobs, which is how it should be I suppose...... ))


.

This^.

Also you can do a lot more than just beefing up mobs to make it difficult. The same applies for soloing and double teaming. Yet developers always seem to stick with the same tired god awful formula. Equal advancement opportunities make for happier communities except the few that will feel e-castrated.

[Archived Post]

could have both ...

LOTRO does it really well with thier epic quests.

You can either get a group to run it,

or

You can solo it, you get an 'inspiration' boost, and can solo the same instance.


it's fun as hell !.... yes hell !! lol.

you can take on cave trolls..... oh ya.



so if you feel like a team or not.... they solved the problem and pleased both parties.


(( edit: I think the XP is better with the team and quite a few more mobs, which is how it should be I suppose...... ))


.

and this:D

edit- also with everquest, while you can solo, if you have a full group you get an exp bonus, and an extra bonus for a raiding party i believe.but dont need either.

[Archived Post]

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to..

Sorry, Data, Troi, Riker etc, where BOF's.

If you want to see content for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.


We have a team. Not to mention some only play with one or two friends. Look at the way some post, look at the idea's, sigs, and comments of some "fleets". Really, so many are crap. Why not let others play them without a "team"? You aren't special because you' re a fleet, except in content that allows fleet vs fleet. STF's are not. 5 member missions? Big fleet you have. More like get a pick up group, or a Gal X worth of referrals, or a small band of friends, fleet mates. Not a true test of a fleet,




IAre you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?.


PvP as a argument for keeping STF's open only to fleets? What the hell?

IIf they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.

I haven't looked hard enough, but that was never asked. We want to play through content, without having to deal with the ego and elitism of some fleets,

Maina

[Archived Post]

... Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?....

I Lol'd grande from that one...


:D:D:D



.

[Archived Post]

When there is nothing left to run and the only way to see new content or to see the rest of the story is through STFs you are in a sense forced to group.

What some may call optional others call forced, it is all in how you look at it.
I look at it as forced, as I am forced to group if I want to see new content or just see the rest of the story.

Check the other listings on the forums - they also want you to complete all the missions to make grade in the upper ranks.

Sorry folks - I will NOT be controlled - wanta meet me 1 V 1 - good luck - I don't need or want a group/fleet to rank in STO and I do not feel it is right to require it

E-mail me Fire_Hazard@Fire_Hazard - want a 1 on 1 - grab your pants for the ride of your life

[Archived Post]

They can have their content at their difficulty, and if they can bring their group along for the ride then, YAY. But again, the way this always turns out is the holding of one group above the other creating a privileged minority, like WoW. Why can you not just creatively tailor the level so that anyone can go through it and have the challenge scale according, you can make some extremely hard SP missions and then you can make an MP mission that scales acceptably for their group. They need to revamp the away team controls, it is a tall order, especially in jumpy area for the infected. (your away team will be taking a plasma dip a lot).

How did people EVER manage in Ultima Online, where every region was accessible, but if you went into a dungeon by yourself, it was expected that you would come out as mob crap. Every MMO that has ever been has had areas that by design were too difficult for a single player, no matter how maxed out thye are, can go without getting killed.

Now everyone wants everything. Remember what Captain Kirk said to Charlie Evans?

"There are a million things you can have and a million things you can't"

What a shame that this lesson isn't taught in this day and age.

I have no sympathy for the gimme gimme crowd. You want something, do what you have to to get it.

That is coming from a casual soloist. I am not bothered in the slightest that there's a portion of the game I can't see unless I choose to group. I don't feel like anyone is forcing me to do anything.

But you know what? It's a moot point, really. Because guess what? Those rare loot rewards groupers get for completing a STF? Aren't they floating around on the exchange? Or is it just the content you want to take part in? If that is the case, keep in mind that there are all those reviews about each STF talking about how much of a frustrating repetitive grind they are, and once done for the first time, there is little real desire to go do it again?

And what if they do create a solo version. You really think they'll depart too much from the theme of the group version? The most they'll do is make it so goals that have to be done by multiple people simultaneously can now be done in a linear sequence. And you'll likely have to battle your way back through a crapstorm of mobs in an area you just cleared to get to goal one on your way to goal two. And another for goal three. And if you are defeated, you'll likely have to start the whole bloody thing over again. GROUPS have to deal with that kind of BS, based on what I've read. It would only be fair if solo players have to deal with it as well.

I don't get a lot of time to play as it is. That's why I prefer going solo. Because if I have to log out suddenly as a solo player, I'm not hanging anyone out to dry. Back when I used to be a grouper, I had this happen to me an the rest of the group a lot. I refuse to be the kind that has to bail right when the group is prepping for the final push through to the boss. The most crucial point. Plus I hate not being able to see something through, knowing full well if I have to bail, I also have to go through it AGAIN later with another group. I do find myself wishing I could just solo those sorts of missions. But I want the same level of challenge that a group has to face... That's in Lord of the Rings Online, though. Where group missions are challenging, but not mind-numbingly difficult due to sheer mob numbers just for the sake of being mind-numbingly difficult the way STO's STFs are designed.

Cryptic's idea of challenge is to make things either take longer to kill or throw enough super-hard mobs at you to make sure that you and your friends cannot get through an encounter without dying. There are some encounters I've had in solo exploration missions where the mob I am fighting keeps knocking me down and killing me before I can even react. It's happened a few times. It's not challenging... It's overpowered for the level it's being dealt with on.

Of course, Cryptic could create your solo STF and have it nice and balanced. And then you know what will happen? The groupers will demand that the multiplayer version of the STF be redesigned so it too is balanced and fun. Then you will whine about groupers getting attention and not enough more solo content.

Because MMO = Nobody Ever Satisfied with What They Have.

:mad:

Enough is bloody enough.

[Archived Post]

If one considers what makes the STF's — lets discuss Infected and The Cure, because I haven't tried KA and UT yet — group-content only, it boils down to three things:
The enemies are balanced for a group encounter.

The STF's have special mechanisms that require a group to work together, i.e. the force-fields in Infected and gate-nodes in The Cure.

Because of points #1 and #2, the story-telling, i.e. player interaction and the actual plot, takes an obvious second-seat to the "action."
Therefore, if Cryptic is to re-design points #1 and #2, I demand they put more effort into #3, It's only fair! After all, it's only the fact that STF were created and designed for groups that allowed the STF's to be so action-focused and light on story.

Of course, this would mean that without the requirement to go through the STF's as a group, people would quickly get bored with the soloable STF's and have yet-again, nothing to do until the next episode.

A wonderful plan indeed. ;)

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To be honest they might as well make solo stfs possible. Heck the game is already 97% soloable. Other than stfs/fleet actions i dont require a group at all

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You think I do not know what Cryptic's style is? I do and most of what people are asking for, is a difficulty option that allows them to play as well without having a fleet. Technically being a captain you have your own "group" though I wish I could just play as a First Officer on ground missions as that makes more sense, or elect a chief of the different branches on my ship and put one in charge of the beaming down and helping out, effectively using that as a player character.

Back on track though, there is a good reason that people ask for things, it is because they are paying the same money you are. And it is not totally unreasonable especially when the company that they are paying is advertising and promoting accessibility to the player base. I also do not see how it really effects you. If you like grouping, and you try to say your a solo player but your arguments say otherwise, then group there should be a difficulty meter for groups two.

No one play style should be held above the other. And both should be rewarded separately and equally for playing. The gear centric pit is the worst way you can go. There are other ways to reward players, and there should be ways to make encounters as challenging for or easy (it should be the choice of the player(s)) as you and/or your group are willing to take it.

Gear should be at most something that is standard and easily negligible and accessible this would allow people to stay current and actually be in a position to participate easily without being told flat out that you have to really really grind for this gear because we only follow some retarded gear score or something like that.

Grouping should always be something that is always available but never forced on you, being forced into groups can create bad blood and ill will among the player-base, it can also eventually harm a game overall. Grouping should be fun, and not a frustrating nudge just because you have to do it, it should be something you WANT to do.

Also if you really are of the opinion that the STF's are just a horrible grind and people would not want to do them again, then why do you really care? I and others feel that even if a dungeon can be a grind, if it has lore value then it should be available. I am also very intrigued as to what LOTRO is doing, cold gin time brought this to my attention, and I think it is a wonderful idea, everyone gets their cake and gets to eat it as well. If it is indeed fun and works out as being as accommodating as he says it is, then that sounds much like a step in the right direction.

If one considers what makes the STF's — lets discuss Infected and The Cure, because I haven't tried KA and UT yet — group-content only, it boils down to three things:

1. The enemies are balanced for a group encounter.

2. The STF's have special mechanisms that require a group to work together, i.e. the force-fields in Infected and gate-nodes in The Cure.

3. Because of points #1 and #2, the story-telling, i.e. player interaction and the actual plot, takes an obvious second-seat to the "action."

Therefore, if Cryptic is to re-design points #1 and #2, I demand they put more effort into #3, It's only fair! After all, it's only the fact that STF were created and designed for groups that allowed the STF's to be so action-focused and light on story.

Of course, this would mean that without the requirement to go through the STF's as a group, people would quickly get bored with the soloable STF's and have yet-again, nothing to do until the next episode.

A wonderful plan indeed.

I know that this game needs hooks for people to continue subbing, and should the time come when STO has grown up a little, and can grow outwards, they should really look at focusing more on the lore interactions and finding other ways to make STF's and other encounters challenging without resorting to a wall of mobs. I threw in my support for more crystalline entity like encounters because it helped hold people still while the developers were making an end game.

I do not agree that very lore intensive encounters should only be given to a minority I also do not believe in Gear centric advancement systems or reward systems. They create gaps, frustrate players and in the end take away focus from what the game truly is supposed to be. They are not good indicators of skill and again there are other ways to award and give recognition without effecting gameplay or balance.

I agree with the idea that story and character interaction should be pioneered. I would like to see more personality and thought as well. To both the story and the NPC's. I would like to see a lot of energy put into creatively shaping encounters and insuring that fun is the highest priority for one and all. I also think I may be asking to much at this juncture.

Oh well.

That is all.

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Also you mentioned, that this isn't LOTRO, well no it isn't, but looking for ideas to use is better than settling for the status quo. If it works well in LOTRO while being whats to say that you cannot try and do the same thing with these encounters? Also why shouldn't they eventually go back over the STF's to give them depth more so than just being an over glorified trash mob disposal unit?

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I have done one STF so far.

I have made a Engineer build arround Shield-domes, Covershields, Turrets/Generators and AoE damage.

The first STF worked fine for me, then i did read a guide to the second STF and tried it solo (yeah, i go in solo to see what i am up against before i even search for a group) ...and FFFFFFF*ck it! my shield dome and cover shield don't work in there so i would have to get another Kit (to get a purple one that means another week of grinding B'Tran) and maybe even Respec for that one mission. :mad:

Yeah! I hit that one build that is completely useless for the 2nd STF, so i didn't even bother.


So if they want to make it solo-able i am all for it, but there should still be a significant Bonus for doing it in a Group,

The "challenging" Group Content in my eye should be the Fleetactions anyway, i like them but they are completely DEAD (because there is no Reward in it for doing them at Endgame).

[Archived Post]

I have done one STF so far.

I have made a Engineer build arround Shield-domes, Covershields, Turrets/Generators and AoE damage.

The first STF worked fine for me, then i did read a guide to the second STF and tried it solo (yeah, i go in solo to see what i am up against before i even search for a group) ...and FFFFFFF*ck it! my shield dome and cover shield don't work in there so i would have to get another Kit (to get a purple one that means another week of grinding B'Tran) and maybe even Respec for that one mission. :mad:

Yeah! I hit that one build that is completely useless for the 2nd STF, so i didn't even bother.


So if they want to make it solo-able i am all for it, but there should still be a significant Bonus for doing it in a Group,

The "challenging" Group Content in my eye should be the Fleetactions anyway, i like them but they are completely DEAD (because there is no Reward in it for doing them at Endgame).


Again I really do not believe that holding one play style above another is NOT the way to go. I also think you can make something content-wise as difficult or more-so for one style of playing as with the other. And you can make it fun. To me the whole grouping is better is a kind of a cop-out.

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i am 100% in favour of solo task forces. i dont care if they nurf the rewards or what i would just like to play the mission on my own.

im all for keeping group content and it should be more rewarding for team and people that like a challenge but there is nothing wrong with giving people an option. if you want to do it as a team there is nothing stopping them form doing that. if people do the task forces on their own and they improve the group play bits then they might also be encouraged to then try it with a team and go for the big prizes at the end. many people at the moment simply wont touch them, so this is a good thing

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OP, didn't you listen to Dan? He meant making a solo-friendly version so that people who would prefer to be able to attempt it themselves can. This doesn't mean you can't still do the normal STFs. However I agree that maybe there should be some solo lead up missions to get people to think "Ohhh I wonder what will happen next. I wanna do Infection/Terradome now."

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Right now, I cannot complete Khitomer Accord simply because... well, either I suck, or the people I was with sucked, or we were really unlucky - and that was despite having people whom had informed themselves over how to get through it.

...and the most I've seen of Khitomer Accord? Just the beginning. The probes tget through and mission failed. Meaning I don't get to see whatever was awaiting in terms of cool storylines. This annoys me.

Therefore, having the STF turn into a possible solo mission so I can go in and experience its story gets a lot of approval out of me.

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Solo versions of STFs would actually give me a reason to start playing again. I don't really care about the loot drops. I just want to finish the quest lines.

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I would like to see more Solo content... I have never done any of the STFs and I would only do them if they are able to be soloed.... I hate being forced to do Grouped Quests or Story Lines and I really hope Solo versions of these make it in game...

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I haven't bothered with trying to do STFs. For one thing I don't want to spend two hours looking for a group that will spend two hours on a STF then break up because half of them can't play their class or character with bad builds. I play for fun and thats not fun it's a hassle.

They should make solo or two man STFs without purples and badges. That should be left to the group STFs. Having solo STFs would make the group ones better because people would have more experience. So more people would know what to do it could make group STFs faster and better for everyone. Maybe even getting groups easier.

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Solo versions of STFs would actually give me a reason to start playing again. I don't really care about the loot drops. I just want to finish the quest lines.

I would like to see more Solo content... I have never done any of the STFs and I would only do them if they are able to be soloed.... I hate being forced to do Grouped Quests or Story Lines and I really hope Solo versions of these make it in game...



I agree completely.

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this would be good its not always easy to get groups together i have never completed a single stf because people leave during them so it would be good to solo

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I just want to say please don't do this. I like to do missions solo. I also enjoy chatting with my friends who are doing their own thing too. At times we will decide to group up and do missions together. For me, that is the definition of an MMO.
One thing that really irritated me with World of ********, is how raids were exclusive to large groups. On a personal note, I never considered 40/25 even 10 man "epic". I much prefer the 5 man group stuff. But anyway, not being in a raid meant I missed out on a lot of content that finished up the story of the areas.
I thought that just sucked. Why should I be penalised for missing out on big story events? The raiders would get to see the story - but then after seeing it they move into farming mode which frankly bores me.
I want to see story. I even had the idea of special 5 man "story" groups, where the "raid" was tuned to a 5 man group allowing you to get through it so you can see the story part. I was then thinking after seeing the story part, I could then go back and focus on my other characters etc, where others who were in that 5 man, could then move onto the raid version and continue if they choose to.

Coming back to STO. I do not want exclusive group content. I want to be able to see everything that Cryptic makes as much as possible. If the STF (as has been made) is designated as group - fine, I'll get my friends. But I do not want that to be the focus of "end game".
Apart from the frustration that I've felt in that Assimilation mission on Tribble, I still think its a good idea and the right direction to go. It will just take me longer to figure out those types of missions :) but that's ok.

[Archived Post]

In a Hailing Frequencies recent broadcast (http://shows.hailingfrequency.com/HF-SE-11072010.mp3) Daniel Stahl speaks about making solo-friendly versions of the STF's, if I understood correctly.

I would like to urge, plea and even beg Cryptic not to do this!

Please Cryptic, instead of making solo-friendly STF's make a pack of solo-friendly missions leading up to the STF's and following up to them, instead of making the STF's themselves solo-friendly.

My reasoning for this, is that the STF's themselves, in my opinion, should remain challenging group-based content, but fleshing them out in a way that allows us to feel STAR TREK'ly heroic (i.e. solo-friendly) could definitely get more people to want to attempt the STF's, while allowing Cryptic to flesh out the stories of the STF's themselves without actively changing the STF's.

Thank you. :D

I would have to say that I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the solo-friendly STF. With recent declines in overall player activity especially on the klingon side, this idea makes perfect sense.

I will yield however, that a solo STF should, in no way, be "easy". We are able to set up our BOs to make them behave and respond in a very controlled sort of way. Since the "teamwork" factor would then be removed, some other factor should be introduced, to give even the best BO setups, a good degree of difficulty.

I'll also add that I don't particularly care if the current STFs are left in place. I don't mind not getting ALL the marks available, but the ability to gain SOME marks would be fantastic !!

We already get solo PvP credit. Yeah, it sucks when fighting an organised PvP fleet when you're on an 'ad hoc' team, but at least it's do-able.

I hope that the OP can find this agreeable. Not everyone can find the time to run an STF when is agreeable for anyone else, at least not on a constant basis. I really do think a non-intrusive addition, as opposed to a change in what the groups already have, would do well in enhancing the overall "feel" of the game.

this would be good its not always easy to get groups together i have never completed a single stf because people leave during them so it would be good to solo

I think I've completed.....one.

[Archived Post]

This!

this would be good its not always easy to get groups together i have never completed a single stf because people leave during them so it would be good to solo

I would like to see STF be able to be done solo or with 1 -4 other players just like other missions. I know this defeats the purpose is some players minds, but it is much easier to find 1 or 2 players willing to work though the whole mission then it is an entire team.

[Archived Post]

looks like the vote is pretty one sided here...overwhelming response in FAVOR of solo-freindly STF's.

Conclusions: Force grouping is undesirable to most players. Solo options are in demand.


and Dstahl recognized this before this thread was even squeezed out. :rolleyes:


props to his insight.

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I think it’s a good idea to make STFs for less than five players.

On Friday night I was waiting twenty minutes, with a friend, to get the team together but only managed only three players to play Infected. As you can guess this did not happen.

On Sunday, again waited 15 minutes, for Infected, to get a full team but within 10 minutes there were only two of us left and the game was disbanded.

There are hardly any players about who want to play a certain type of mission

Though I can understand people’s points of view that they should remain as full five player teams but it is not fair for those who want to continue playing the game but are experiencing difficulties in getting a group together or do not want to join a fleet.

Equally it would not be fair for single players or people who can’t get a full team together to be restricted out of purple goodies either. The types of goods that are dispensed should be tied in with the difficulty setting which I belive currently happens for other missions.

[Archived Post]

There is a REASON for that... A significant number of players asked for content that requires players to work together, you know, like in Star Trek? to solve get through. But at the same time, nobody has to play the STFs if they don't want to.

If you want to see content intended for a group to experience, then join a group and experience it.

Noone has to play STO if they don't want to. And yet, they do. And pay a sub. And don't want to be excluded from end game content. You continue making the same argument over and over, as if repeating it will make it true. It won't. People can still group. Use a difficulty slider for group/solo play. Done.

Are you the sort of person who feels they should be able to fly into a PvP battle zone as a solo PvEer and not be blasted out of the stars simply because all you wanted to do was see the battlefield?

Was sure you would mention this. No, I group to PVP. Unless I'm, you know, the lone Klink / Fed (Kerrat anyone?) I can warp into Kerrat and PVP without a group - which is the point.

If they make a solo version of the STFs and it rewards exactly the same thing that the group-based STFs reward, then it's another piece of content that renders joining up with others moot.

What is inherently superior about grouping? Nothing. It's just player preference. Different people play MMO's for different reasons. Scale rewards for solo / group play. Done.



My responses in red.

Personally, and like yourself, I truly don't care if I ever do another STF. I just do not think that excluding solo play style from a solo friendly game is wise either from a game play or business model perspective.

[Archived Post]

If this is even true, how is it different than the difficulty slider?

If I like playing on normal, advanced, or elite, I just move the slider.

If I wanted to play an STF by myself (and I do) then I'd just do it.

If you want to play with other people, fine...if we don't (and I don't) then that's fine too.

'nuff said, aight?

[Archived Post]

I joined STO to play solo... have never joined any Feds, "Never did, never will"...

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looks like the vote is pretty one sided here...overwhelming response in FAVOR of solo-freindly STF's.

Conclusions: Force grouping is undesirable to most players. Solo options are in demand.

and Dstahl recognized this before this thread was even squeezed out. :rolleyes:

props to his insight.I'd be the first to champion the More Options Camp, and also rank highly in thinking that most content in any MMO should be solo-friendly, I come from City of Heroes after all. ;)

However, as I said, most content, not all content. Diluting the STF's into a single-player experience will result in quick boredom in my opinion because the rewards from the diluted will be unsatisfying and the story-telling in the soloable STF version, if unchanged from the group-version, would be disappointing in comparison with other content pieces.

If Cryptic manages to somehow beef up the story-telling in the soloable STF versions, I'd be pleasantly surprised and I'd probably be replaying the soloable STF versions in-between playing the group-version with my Fleet... somehow though, I doubt that's going to happen... but perhaps dStahl can Make It So! :D

[Archived Post]

........ but perhaps dStahl can Make It So! :D

and THAT is what a lot of us are banking on.

It's tough for him, he has a lot on his table to gain our loyalty again.... but I really think he may be a beacon of hope in all of this. It's showing well for him on how active and open he is with us at the moment...Lets hope it continues.


Go DStahl !! GO !!!!!!


.

[Archived Post]

It's tough for him, he has a lot on his table to gain our loyalty again...Don't get me wrong, everything I've hear coming from dStahl, I like so far. However people do have the best intentions at-heart and yet sometimes end up doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.

When I first heard, long before Cryptic contemplated taking over, about a STAR TREK MMO being made, I immediately realized whoever will make it, will have a tough time bringing a franchise that was about telling the adventures of (usually) one Ship, one Crew and one Captain (excuse me DS9 fans) into an online multiplayer environment, let alone a massively online multiplayer one.

I still think that STO and the player community will be better served by solo-friendly content that revolves around and touches the STF's, especially if it'll somehow make the STF's themselves more PUG-friendly, but if this thread will somehow contribute to making STO a better game for us all, I'll be happy either way.

[Archived Post]

I am going to say this just to make my true position clear:

While I may have my opinion of what ought to be, What this game needs most is satisfied players. And whatever direction Cryptic neets to go in order to generate the greatest number of satisfied players, then it has my support.

So if a solo version of the STFs will make more people happy, then as much as I prefer to champion content exclusive to groupers (even though I myself am not a grouper), then Cryptic needs to do it.

Heck... make access to the solo versions unlockable via moderately expensive c-store purchases. That will financially justify the efforts put into retooling group content so it can be done by those who can't be bothered to play with other people. They'll be able to do it solo if they pay for it. Groupers wouldn't be hurt at all because they wouldn't have had to spend a dime to be able to enjoy it.

I mean, if they are going to be putting the Excelsior and Nebula class ships in the C-store, they might as well do this as well...

[Archived Post]

... What this game needs most is satisfied players. And whatever direction Cryptic neets to go in order to generate the greatest number of satisfied players, then it has my support....

amen.


....................

[Archived Post]

i actully agree on the no soloable STF's.

if you really want people to group up then create a better grouping tool.

I know people are going to hate me for this.

BUT!

WoW got a great new grouping tool that i recently saw, where you join up for a STF and once it has a full group, everyone gets transported to it.

[Archived Post]

I am going to say this just to make my true position clear:

While I may have my opinion of what ought to be, What this game needs most is satisfied players. And whatever direction Cryptic neets to go in order to generate the greatest number of satisfied players, then it has my support.

So if a solo version of the STFs will make more people happy, then as much as I prefer to champion content exclusive to groupers (even though I myself am not a grouper), then Cryptic needs to do it.

Heck... make access to the solo versions unlockable via moderately expensive c-store purchases. That will financially justify the efforts put into retooling group content so it can be done by those who can't be bothered to play with other people. They'll be able to do it solo if they pay for it. Groupers wouldn't be hurt at all because they wouldn't have had to spend a dime to be able to enjoy it.

I mean, if they are going to be putting the Excelsior and Nebula class ships in the C-store, they might as well do this as well...

Just stop being selfish dude. We're already paying a subscription fee dude. If you groupers want to keep the rich storyline stuff in the stfs to yourselves then cryptic needs to give us the people who want to solo and not be forced into grouping to see al the content a discount on our sub fee. nuff said

[Archived Post]

I dont think he is being selfish... he is just posting his point of view.


"respect the pouch !!!!"

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i actully agree on the no soloable STF's.

if you really want people to group up then create a better grouping tool.

I know people are going to hate me for this.

BUT!

WoW got a great new grouping tool that i recently saw, where you join up for a STF and once it has a full group, everyone gets transported to it.

let me fill you in on the great wow tool. yeah it transports you in. then people take a moment while they go armory you. if you don't have tier 10 gear just to run a heroic now adays they boot you from the group. that kind of elitism attitude is why I ran from wow so fast after 5 years. It wasn't so bad when I first started but it became more of a problem the longer I played more players acting like that that it finally became unbearable. I love star trek but now I'm beginning to see some of the players on star trek acting like that. I thought star trek online would be different I guess not.

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I dont think he is being selfish... he is just posting his point of view.


"respect the pouch !!!!"

well it just seems like from my point of view he's being selfish but I guess after playing wow so long with so many elitist acting players I ight be a little jaded

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Solo STFs wont kill the group STFs I think it will make them better. It's very hard to get a group to complete them now. If not almost impossible. With people running them solo and getting experience at them while getting better at playing the STFs their next step would be to step up to full group STFs. So it might just recharge STFs where people are doing them even more. Easier to find groups and find better groups.

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Solo STFs wont kill the group STFs I think it will make them better. It's very hard to get a group to complete them now. If not almost impossible. With people running them solo and getting experience at them while getting better at playing the STFs their next step would be to step up to full group STFs. So it might just recharge STFs where people are doing them even more. Easier to find groups and find better groups.

I just want to be able to do them by myself so i don't have to bother with finding a group. So I can use my own bridge officers to do it. I've said it before in this thread i'll say it again I hate forced grouping and I don't feel its fair to force that on people to see all the content

[Archived Post]

/signed

What they should do is add a difficulty slider, and some other options (time limit, number of extra patrols), and remove allegiance restrictions. It would be easier to build teams as ppl can use they toon the prefer to use most of all. Think of a team that starts Infected with Cruiser, Escort, Sci, Carrier and Raptor for example, or KA with carrier, 2 x escort, Raptor, and BoP.

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LOTRO...


I say again, LOTRO.


What did LOTRO do over the past year?

Turned all the Epic Questlines that once required Fellowships (teams) into detection wizard instances, if 5 people enter the instance as a team, they remain as they are.

If one person enters the instance, they receive a buff.

They also re-scripted their attack animations and somewhat the combat system, making things flow better.

Skirmishes: Soloable and group instances of various kinds of battles/events with a very robust difficulty slider on instance creation.

Many endgame materials story wise have been given the same treatment as the Epic Book Quests mentioned above.

Then there is a few Non-Story related, non vital to any ongoing storyline, 3 to 12 man raids and one 24 man raid.

Think about that....

Also think that their subscriber numbers have risen, and not dropped in doing so.

Anything that is vital to a storyline, should be able to be done solo, where the instance detects your number, be it 1 or 5 and adjusts accordingly, then scales in yuor chosen difficulty setting. You know what? Little things like that actually bring in more dollars. Its proven and true. Those who wish to group can group, those who solo can solo.

Not a big deal.

But for the hard core (yeah its an irrelevant title, I've raided, there's nothing hardcore about endgame raiders in any game) gamers that wish man raids, again, take a page from LOTRO, have some must have full team instances that are -not- part of the overall story-arch of STO.

There, everyone gets their slice of cake.

Solo players should be given as much of a bone as group players.

MMO argument is irrelevant.

Some people like to roleplay in groups, but mission alone.

That's perfectly as fine as people only wishing to mission in groups. Both camps hold the same amount of water....glass half full...or empty? Semantics. Both the same.

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well it just seems like from my point of view he's being selfish but I guess after playing wow so long with so many elitist acting players I ight be a little jaded

Believe me, I hate elitism. I'm just an old school MMO player who had his start in Ultima Online, where Loot wasn't the end-all and be-all of the game, and neither was grinding out XP to level up. The whole gameworld was open to all playstyles, and there was an understanding that you didn't go out by yourself for the risk of being attacked (before their second age expansion which introduced the Felucca and Trammel facets, it was all open-world PvP and it was open season on everyone), and you didn't go into dungeons by yourself because the mobs down there would chew you up and spin out your bones. Nothing stopped people from going where they wanted to go, but there was just an understanding that it was better to group.

Another thing... Back then, content was explored with no other incentive than "because it was there." Now, nobody wants to do content in MMOs unless there's some uber loot reward associated with it.

I guess that I just feel that it wouldn't hurt if one or two MMOs on the market at least made an attempt at the old school approach, which was never broken, just abandoned.

The peoblem with cryptic is that they don't know what to say "yes" or "no" to. The essence of Star Trek is cooperation. An ensemble crew working together to resolve the issue of the week. The STFs were a step in the right direction of capturing that by presenting challenges that require people to work together to get past. So for me, my opinion isn't so much one that favors content that caters exclusively to groups, but rather one that favors capturing the essence of the cooperative spirit of Star Trek. Yes, this is a game, and the fact that it is a game needs to be a central consideration in most areas... But it is also a Star Trek game, so I feel that there should be a few areas where Star Trek themes should be central considerations.

It is just my opinion. But like I said, Cryptic needs to do whatever they feel will lead to the most satisfied customers. Because that is how STO will survive what is coming.

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Heck... make access to the solo versions unlockable via moderately expensive c-store purchases.NO! :eek: I think we've had enough C-Store scandals already. Making solo-STF's unlockable as Vet awards, or any other in-game accomplishment, that's fine, but putting that on the C-Store will create a plasma-storm the likes of which we haven't even seen yet! :rolleyes:

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However, as I said, most content, not all content. Diluting the STF's into a single-player experience will result in quick boredom in my opinion because the rewards from the diluted will be unsatisfying and the story-telling in the soloable STF version, if unchanged from the group-version, would be disappointing in comparison with other content pieces.

Then DONT do the solo versions(hypothetical) if YOU dont want to. But just because YOU might not want to doesnt mean other people shouldnt be able to if they do. Play YOUR character the way YOU want to, and dont worry about how OTHER people play THEIRS. Is that really so hard to understand?

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NO! :eek: I think we've had enough C-Store scandals already. Making solo-STF's unlockable as Vet awards, or any other in-game accomplishment, that's fine, but putting that on the C-Store will create a plasma-storm the likes of which we haven't even seen yet! :rolleyes:

I was being sarcastic...

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My vote goes toward allowing players to solo STFs if they desire. Personally I want to group with others because I desire it...or want to be social....not because I have to. The current STFs are way too easy for a single player to sabotage the rest...and in my book that is not fun.

I have now lost count of how many times players huffed off in a tantrum for one reason or another, lost internet, had unexpected issues, or my personal favorite...."mommy said I have to log now" lol... effectively ruining the experience for the rest....and in several instances making it impossible to find a replacement {mainly due to where the rest of the team was left and/or the time of day}. To be fair I have also seen awesome streamlined teams that were professional in both behavior and focus.

In my personal opinion STFs should not be content for a select few people....I should be able to group with anyone I desire at any time of the day and have an enjoyable run....and if for any reason I cannot find a team...or simple am not happy with those available I should be able to go alone. I take no issue with reduced rewards, but of course players should not be discouraged from any content the game has to offer.

Like Nagus said above....MMO ≠ Forced grouping/socialization. It merely presents that option for players. I avail myself of it all the time...but other time I prefer to be on my own. STO should not reward either choice over the other....just merely present us with option to play how we see fit. While I cannot claim it myself....if others want to pay their subs and be left alone 100% of the time...merely to enjoy an active environment populated with other people...I say they should be allowed to.

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Believe me, I hate elitism. I'm just an old school MMO player who had his start in Ultima Online, where Loot wasn't the end-all and be-all of the game, and neither was grinding out XP to level up. The whole gameworld was open to all playstyles, and there was an understanding that you didn't go out by yourself for the risk of being attacked (before their second age expansion which introduced the Felucca and Trammel facets, it was all open-world PvP and it was open season on everyone), and you didn't go into dungeons by yourself because the mobs down there would chew you up and spin out your bones. Nothing stopped people from going where they wanted to go, but there was just an understanding that it was better to group.

Another thing... Back then, content was explored with no other incentive than "because it was there." Now, nobody wants to do content in MMOs unless there's some uber loot reward associated with it.

I guess that I just feel that it wouldn't hurt if one or two MMOs on the market at least made an attempt at the old school approach, which was never broken, just abandoned.

The peoblem with cryptic is that they don't know what to say "yes" or "no" to. The essence of Star Trek is cooperation. An ensemble crew working together to resolve the issue of the week. The STFs were a step in the right direction of capturing that by presenting challenges that require people to work together to get past. So for me, my opinion isn't so much one that favors content that caters exclusively to groups, but rather one that favors capturing the essence of the cooperative spirit of Star Trek. Yes, this is a game, and the fact that it is a game needs to be a central consideration in most areas... But it is also a Star Trek game, so I feel that there should be a few areas where Star Trek themes should be central considerations.

It is just my opinion. But like I said, Cryptic needs to do whatever they feel will lead to the most satisfied customers. Because that is how STO will survive what is coming.

I can get your a old school MMO player, but hey times change, you gotta change with the times. Nowadays Solo play in MMOs is very accepted, and profitable, grouping just isnt as 'cool' as it was in the 'good old days'. Solo gameplay is one of the most if not the most popular gamestyle. As much as you old guys complain its not going to suddenly bring back the glory days of EQ and UO. Im just being honest with you, no offense or anything but that was then, this is now.

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I am going to suggest a DIFFERENT twist to this. Instead of requiring 5 people to complete an STF, why not allow STF's to be completed with 4 or even 3 people. As many have mentioned above, it is sometimes difficult to get a group together especially of that size. Given that many groups REQUIRE certain classes or that you have either Vent or Teamspeak, that also drives people away from doing these STFs. So, reduce the number.

Also, I would like to point out that the idea was not to make current STFs solo-able but to make a few new STFs that could be done with your BO's. In other words, the STF would be a challenging multi-tiered mission similar to an STF but not requiring the number of players that current STFs require.

Listen, anything that gives everyone something to do extends the life of this game. Making more things that hinder people from experiencing what they want only stunts the game and will force it to an eventual death.

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Then DONT do the solo versions(hypothetical) if YOU dont want to. But just because YOU might not want to doesnt mean other people shouldnt be able to if they do. Play YOUR character the way YOU want to, and dont worry about how OTHER people play THEIRS. Is that really so hard to understand?Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... OK. :p:D

I was being sarcastic...Thank Q, because I actually... for a second there... believed you were being serious... sorry, silly me. :o

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



And te Group stuff is still there. What I would do is amke the rewards different (ie you get BETTER rewards for the original 'Group' versions of the STFs. That would keep the incentive there for people to still group up and do them.

Hell, all games go through this - Blizzard's WoW USED to have 20 and 40 man endgame Raid instances; and for a while that whwere a lot of their new content focus went. Then after notixcing the content really wasn't used as much as the rest of the game - they retooled all to Raid content to 10 man groups with a coulple of harder 25 man instances (and although I quit WoW a long time ago, I still have RL friends that play in the 'old' Guild and there's still problems getting enough people (in or out of the Guild) to dom the 25 mans.

My point? Even the 800lbs. Gorrila MMO is realizing that you need to look at how your playerbase is using the content you give them, and make sure the gated content is not blocking or frustratingh players to the point where they leave.

Again, I agree there SHOULD be group content; and group content should continue to be made and good incentives given to do the group content. BUT, I'm personally sick and tired or the old Repeat Raid Grind paradigm that WoW and many other previous games use as the main Endgame. Again, even WoW is adjusting (and in a sense) starting to abandon that paradigm itself. I also would HATE to seee a return to the 'forced grouping' paradigm of the old, original EverQuest.

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The more socialization the better.


Solo missions in MMO's never made much sense to me anyway. Arent we playing an online game to play with other people?

Keep in mind that over the past decade finding non-cretins with whom to group has become a full-time occupation.

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I can get your a old school MMO player, but hey times change, you gotta change with the times. Nowadays Solo play in MMOs is very accepted, and profitable, grouping just isnt as 'cool' as it was in the 'good old days'. Solo gameplay is one of the most if not the most popular gamestyle. As much as you old guys complain its not going to suddenly bring back the glory days of EQ and UO. Im just being honest with you, no offense or anything but that was then, this is now.

I am a solo player... How many times do I have to say it?

It is my preferred playstyle. It always has.

I never did dungeon crawls in UO, because I knew I wouldn't survive on my own. I just accepted that and went on enjoying the rest of the gameworld. Personal opinion in spite of the fact that I am a solo player is that there should be places where one does not dare go alone and expect to survive. In the real world, there are neighborhoods and entire sections of cities that one would only walk or drive into alone if they have some sort of a deathwish. How many people in the real world look at such places and think, "wow... The loot must be good in there. I want a shot at it!"? More often than not, most would think, "Whatever they've got in there, they can keep it!"

It's patches of gameworld real estate like this that make the game feel more real. And sometimes Gameplay must take a back seat to realism. Not all the time... just some of the time.

But like I said, Whatever Cryptic needs to do to satisfy the most players has my support, even if I don't particularly like it.

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...Even the 800lbs. Gorrila MMO is realizing that you need to look at how your playerbase is using the content you give them, and make sure the gated content is not blocking or frustrating players to the point where they leave.That is clearly a very valid point, and you didn't even have to bring Blizzard/WoW into the discussion to make it.

However, it still does not explicitly lead us to soloable STF's. I believe there are other ways to set free gated-content.

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That is clearly a very valid point, and you didn't even have to bring Blizzard/WoW into the discussion to make it.

However, it still does not explicitly lead us to soloable STF's. I believe there are other ways to set free gated-content.

Wow, you really, truly, absolutely just hate the idea that somewhere someone is having fun playing a game in a manner which does not conform to your restricted concept of how a game should be played. Get over it, unless you are prepared to pay the subscription costs for every player of STO. Please note that I do not accept PayPal and prefer bearer bonds.

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Oh wow... I really hate this argument, but... here we go: "It's an MMO for a reason, some of it should be group-focused." :(

Now, I'm not against tweaking the STF's so they'd be PUG-friendly, but would caution Cryptic against making the STF's solo-friendly.



The concept you are stating is not so mysterious. First I noticed that you use the term MMO (Mass Multiplayer Online) and seem to have left out the RPG part. Also Mass Multiplayer meas a lot of players, not just groups. The oddest part of your statement is that you don't want solo-friendly players to have access to 'your' STF's. Why? Would it not be better for us to have both? STF leveled for groups AND one for Solo? Why would a solo STF be a problem affecting you and your group in STF's?
I am not being critical of your opinion but I fail to understand why it would make a difference to your gameplay in a group. Please I am not attacking your position but is what you are talking about exclusivity?: special for you and your groups only. Are solo friendly players some sort of a problem? You already have exclusive group use of the STF so please explain what bothers you about solo players. Cryptic has made no intimation that they would degrade the group focussed STF's.

I strongly support the group STF's and so does the Black Watch Fleet of which I have the honor to be a part. The Fleet Admiral and high level players are devoted to training and working the STF's. But as a primarily solo player I would not mind giving a solo level STF a shot as well. I am afraid your request is to NOT add something to our STO game while I actually hope they do. Just a difference of opinion of course.

Other posters have mentioned giving high level loot only to certain portions of the game (PvP, difficulty sliders etc...). However I feel that reserving 'special' or 'superior' loot for only certain players may well make those players feel better but presents a frustration factor for the rest. That can't be good for business and is why Cryptic tries hard to keep a balance in the game. Reminds me uncomfortably of school where the rich kid's dad gets them the fancy bike (or car) and making fun of those who take the bus. Makes riding the bus just that much harder. Much prefer both of us having access to the best, a win win situation unless feeling 'superior' to other players from playstyle is so important.

Sorry my post is so long but being a solo friendly player I felt a little stung at the OP's introducing a little class warfare into STO (more than there alrady is). Feel free to disagree (or flame) but thought I would present another point of view.

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Anything that is vital to a storyline, should be able to be done solo, where the instance detects your number, be it 1 or 5 and adjusts accordingly, then scales in yuor chosen difficulty setting. You know what? Little things like that actually bring in more dollars. Its proven and true. Those who wish to group can group, those who solo can solo.

I agree with your entire post but wanted to narrow it down to this specific point.

Personally, I don't mind the idea of there being full-group only content -- as long as it is not vital to the storyline. That's where LOTRO is making strides right now as they revamp their Epic to make them semi-scalable. *Everyone* wants to experience the Epic storyline; it's the focal point of the game. So it should be scalable for whatever size group. They do point out on the quests that are designed to be full-group that even with the "buff" they will be difficult to solo/small group. This is a good thing. Solo does not mean easy.

In LOTRO, if you solo these Epic stories, you still receive the full reward too. If it is challenging, it shouldn't matter whether you are grouped or not.

However, I don't have any issue at all with there being group only content, with the above caveat. If there are side stories designed for teams (not the main plot line of the game), that's fine with me. Even if it means it's content I never see. That's my choice.

Ideally for me, I'd love everything to be scalable, however, I also realize that it is a lot of work to give full functionality to groups and revised functionality to solo/small groups to accomplish the same goals in the end. It's not really going to be the "same" experience. Mechanics will change in some cases out of necessity. It's not always going to just be a matter of scaling.

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Then DONT do the solo versions(hypothetical) if YOU dont want to. But just because YOU might not want to doesnt mean other people shouldnt be able to if they do. Play YOUR character the way YOU want to, and dont worry about how OTHER people play THEIRS. Is that really so hard to understand?

Its not about him understanding nagus. It really boils down to this. He wants the stfs to remain group oriented and he wants to force people to group and if they don't then he believes they don't deserve to have access to all the storyline content plain and simple. I've dealt with his type while playing wow many times before and its what made me finally get fed up with that game.

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The concept you are stating is not so mysterious. First I noticed that you use the term MMO (Mass Multiplayer Online) and seem to have left out the RPG part.I do not currently believe any MMO game has the right to call itself an MMORPG, but that's an entirely different topic.

The oddest part of your statement is that you don't want solo-friendly players to have access to 'your' STF's. Why? Would it not be better for us to have both? STF leveled for groups AND one for Solo? Why would a solo STF be a problem affecting you and your group in STF's?I do not so much want to prevent soloists from experiencing the STF's as much as I want them to be able to, and want to, play the STF's as the group content Cryptic designed them to be.

I am not being critical of your opinion but I fail to understand why it would make a difference to your gameplay in a group. Please I am not attacking your position but is what you are talking about exclusivity? special for you and your groups only.It wouldn't make a difference to me, it may make a difference to Cryptic in the long run if they spend their time creating soloable STF's that later on the community will simply toss away because quite frankly, both Infected and Cure are nothing special story-wise if you take away the group-play, and that's what worries me.

Are solo friendly players some sort of a problem? You already have exclusive group use of the STF so please explain what bothers you about solo players. Cryptic has made no intimation that they would degrade the group focussed STF's.Soloists aren't a problem. I myself have leveled up two RA characters almost exclusively solo or in duo with a buddy of mine. This doesn't mean that I wish all game content to be soloable however.

I am afraid your request is to NOT add something to our STO game while I actually hope they do.Actually, I do request Cryptic create new content, revolving around the STF's so that the STF's would be made more accessible by making them PUG-friendly, and more fleshed out story-wise, but by new content missions rather than having to design another version of the STF's that in comparison to the group-STF's will yield less rewards (as it probably should), and no better story-telling.

Sorry my post is so long but being a solo friendly player I felt a little stung at the OP's introducing a little class warfare into STO (more than there alrady is). Feel free to disagree (or flame) but thought I would present another point of view.Again, I do not wish to prevent or exclude anyone or anyone's playstyle. I do prefer new content that adds much more features than a mere solo-version of the STF's.

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Wow, you really, truly, absolutely just hate the idea that somewhere someone is having fun playing a game in a manner which does not conform to your restricted concept of how a game should be played. Get over it, unless you are prepared to pay the subscription costs for every player of STO. Please note that I do not accept PayPal and prefer bearer bonds.

couldn't have said it better myself brother

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As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

I've got to agree with Nagus here. I have had a few bad fleet experiences and have subsequently made several attempts at infected with PUGs. Virtually impossible to complete in under 4 hours with PUGs.

I agree with the OP that the STFs should be be soloable, but I also agree with Nagus that there should be a difficulty slider. That way, they would still require a 5 person team, but you could lower the difficulty down to the point where it can be done in 3 hours or less with mindless PUGs.

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OK guys, 18 pages in less than 24 hours have convinced me that we need to focus the discussion on HOW can the STF's be made soloable instead of IF they should.

I definitely like the STF's as group-content, but if there are good ideas out there on how to create a soloable version of the STF's, I'd like to discuss them here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=167748).

I'd like to formally apologize to all those who think I'm seeking to prevent them from accessing any content. My intent was never to belittle any of you for preferring soloplay vs group-play.

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I do not currently believe any MMO game has the right to call itself an MMORPG, but that's an entirely different topic.

I do not so much want to prevent soloists from experiencing the STF's as much as I want them to be able to, and want to, play the STF's as the group content Cryptic designed them to be.

It wouldn't make a difference to me, it may make a difference to Cryptic in the long run if they spend their time creating soloable STF's that later on the community will simply toss away because quite frankly, both Infected and Cure are nothing special story-wise if you take away the group-play, and that's what worries me.

Soloists aren't a problem. I myself have leveled up two RA characters almost exclusively solo or in duo with a buddy of mine. This doesn't mean that I wish all game content to be soloable however.

Actually, I do request Cryptic create new content, revolving around the STF's so that the STF's would be made more accessible by making them PUG-friendly, and more fleshed out story-wise, but by new content missions rather than having to design another version of the STF's that in comparison to the group-STF's will yield less rewards (as it probably should), and no better story-telling.

Again, I do not wish to prevent or exclude anyone or anyone's playstyle. I do prefer new content that adds much more features than a mere solo-version of the STF's.

Thanks. Now that was no flame but a well thought out point by point post. While you and I disagree on a basic premise I have seen so much acrimony in the forums with discussion degraded to mud slinging that your post was well appreciated. Again thanks.

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Thanks. Now that was no flame but a well thought out point by point post. While you and I disagree on a basic premise I have seen so much acrimony in the forums with discussion degraded to mud slinging that your post was well appreciated. Again thanks.Thanks for being patient.

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Please make the STF's have soloable version. Don't waste the maps and developement effort put forward on a set of activities that can only be experienced one way - a way largely unrelated to 90%+ of the play experience up to that point.

I enjoy and occasionally even prefer the solo experience in this game, and I pay money to do so. A solo version of the STFs, even with reduced rewards, would give me something new to do and incentive to keep paying in.

Thanks.

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why cant we discuss it in this thread, instead of having two going ?


... I like this thread...*sniff, tear

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why cant we discuss it in this thread, instead of having two going ?Because I wanted another thread to discuss how to make soloable STF's and this thread to discuss if they should be made soloable at all. Clearly we're all capable of having two different discussions in two different threads, right? ;)


... I like this thread...*sniff, tearMe too... especially when it shows the support dStahl has from the fanbase! :D (and no, I'm not being sarcastic.)

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....Clearly we're all capable of having two different discussions in two different threads, right? ;)....

speaking for myself..... I can't concentrate long enough to even get my second arm into the other sleeve of a shirt .....



.

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I played Everquest from beta till late in 2008, loved the game, still miss it now and again, what I got tired of was needy people and raid schedules that left me without enough rest.

I was in a guild, an officer, in a raiding alliance, so I know all about grouping and having to do stuff that can only be done in groups, I just got tired of always having to do stuff I didn't want to anymore because people were short dps or a backup healer, I used to 2box, was doing it long before it became the fashion 8')

I just don't want to bother grouping any more, I don't want my chat parser calling out audio alerts, I have no desire to listen to yammering on vent or any other service, I just want to be able to play and enjoy myself, and for the most part this game fills that desire.

I love how fleet actions work because I can be with other folks without having any obligations, I get in there and toss some shield and hull heals, pop off fire at will and agro some stuff and let the pack chase me while someone tags them from behind, and then when I need to do something I can just leave. JUST LEAVE... No trying to get someone to fill the spot, no getting guilted to stay for another spawn, no disappointed folks when I say i can't - I gotta go now.

So give me that slider for STF's so I can do it my way. :)

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I'd love to have solo versions, never have time for 4hr runs through the ones we have now. And hate trying to do them with pick up grps never works out. Every fleet I join anymore just has it's members dissapear over time also. So I vote yes for solo STF's.

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Need to really examine each STF and locate the fault with them.

INFECTED>

The main issues i have with infected.

Way too many trash mobs that respawn self heal etc with masses of hitpoints.

Not enough respawn points littered through out the maps

the nodes can somtimes be difficult to spot especially if you cant get into a room to locate it somtimes you just have to suicide to find the node.

Too many hold moves from the mobs.

BOSS

Tone down the damage done by the super lava at the end so it ticks for somthing like 5% of hp per second that at least gives you 30 seconds to get out of the lava instead of frantically jumping to find a jump spot.

Remove the respawning borg in the end room.

Remove the door

When the borg queeny lady puts the blue buff on you at least give you a better warning OR a few seconds notice before she opens fire.

MAKE IT OBVIOUS

Allow NPC bridge officers / TURRETS to realise when they have the buff on them and to stop firing.


The cure

Remove the trash mobs by about 50% get rid of 75% of the shield mechanics get rid of constantly spawning super mobs at the shields and instead replace with wave of normal borgy type drones.

Allow you to set your bridge officers to defend that shield.

(most the problems i have with this mission is the trash mobs and WAVE AFTER WAVE of them)

GROUND BOSS

This boss fight actually wasnt that bad but maybe give him a 90% hp reduction because he has so many hit points it just drags the fight out.

(ok maybe not 90% but fights dont have to last hours to be fun)

SPACE BOSS

Give more time to resuce the klingon ships

the carrier needs to have the number of ships it spawns nerfed OR at least provide tools to lock them down (for all classes not just one)

Also remove the timer for it to complete

KHITOMER ACCORDS

Dont know about this one cant get past the first part with the drones swarming the gate

The terradrome

This map was fine but yet again WAY too many trash mobs and respawning ones at that

END BOSS

Nice mechanic but after killing all the sulu clones DO NOT have UNDINE SPAWN constantly from the ceiling while trying to kill the final boss.

What im trying to say is that cryptic could make nearly all their STFS more fun by making them slider difficulty enabled IE easier till you get the hang of them and ramp up the difficulty.

AND by removing 90% of the trash mobs that you have to trawl through, or at least break up the mobs to provide some boss mobs that drop comparable loot.

ALso provide far more loot at the end i hate missions that dont reward everyone.

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If one considers what makes the STF's — lets discuss Infected and The Cure, because I haven't tried KA and UT yet — group-content only, it boils down to three things:
The enemies are balanced for a group encounter.

The STF's have special mechanisms that require a group to work together, i.e. the force-fields in Infected and gate-nodes in The Cure.

Because of points #1 and #2, the story-telling, i.e. player interaction and the actual plot, takes an obvious second-seat to the "action."
Therefore, if Cryptic is to re-design points #1 and #2, I demand they put more effort into #3, It's only fair! After all, it's only the fact that STF were created and designed for groups that allowed the STF's to be so action-focused and light on story.

Of course, this would mean that without the requirement to go through the STF's as a group, people would quickly get bored with the soloable STF's and have yet-again, nothing to do until the next episode.

A wonderful plan indeed. ;)

looking back, i noticed you may have misunderstood what he was saying to me, it sounded like there were going to be two versions of the stf missions. one for groups that would remain the way it is now, and a second version for those who want to solo it but get the story.you will still have your group only content, and people will be able to solo and still get the story.to me, this is a good compromise.

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... that is how STO will survive what is coming.

What is coming?

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I've done all of the STF's several times and had more failures than successes.... Failure happens for many reasons and properly so... these are meant to be difficult & challenging... there is a very steep learning curve involved in doing an STF in a reasonable time... this requires practice and knowledge.... I can understand the frustration with people spending many hours only to fail... However, practice pays off.... perserverance through difficult times builds character... We did infected quite easily with a group of 4 in less than 1.5 hours with a few breaks.... There were zero run-backs or unintentional teams wipes.... A very experienced team with no teamspeak... We don't always play together... I found that I was actually a "decent" player when I got asked to join a "killer" group... I learned alot... my game got better & I shared the knowledge with my friends both in & out of the Fleet. They did infected in 30 minutes!!!

What the solo player lacks is the information to know how to do the mission.... A bunch of Noobs running infected is a bad joke.... Anyone running an STF without any prior knowledge of what to expect & what to do is going to have a very bad time....

The new "Assimilated" mission is a perfect example... I tried it late at night and just kept getting whacked.... I gave up & tried again the next day & tried a new strategy... it worked perfectly and the mission was not zergy at all...

I had prior knowledge and came up with a strategy to deal with it... as we progress as players we accumulate different strategies to use and become more able to adapt to a new situation....

This is why the grouping part is important.... it is the sharing of knowledge & experience from the top down to the bottom of all players progression... it forces players to be a learner first then a teacher later... it forces a "leadership" function which can be very annoying to everyone....

A Solo-able version of the STF's should be available as a holodeck training simulation for a smaller reward... A difficulty slider should be available... perhaps a c-store or Latinum purchased holo-mission to pay for it's implementation...

The real STF's should stay as they are.... if u r having a bad time with them U R doing them wrong.... Keep trying... they are still challenging when U know what to do...

The Real Challenge is finding good people to play with... The solo-able STF will help Solo Players learn the missions so they are ready for the real thing... and the Solo player will have a chance to be a Good STF Player

[Archived Post]

warning, possible spoiler alert

I've done all of the STF's several times and had more failures than successes.... Failure happens for many reasons and properly so... these are meant to be difficult & challenging... there is a very steep learning curve involved in doing an STF in a reasonable time... this requires practice and knowledge.... I can understand the frustration with people spending many hours only to fail... However, practice pays off.... perserverance through difficult times builds character... We did infected quite easily with a group of 4 in less than 1.5 hours with a few breaks.... There were zero run-backs or unintentional teams wipes.... A very experienced team with no teamspeak... We don't always play together... I found that I was actually a "decent" player when I got asked to join a "killer" group... I learned alot... my game got better & I shared the knowledge with my friends both in & out of the Fleet. They did infected in 30 minutes!!!

What the solo player lacks is the information to know how to do the mission.... A bunch of Noobs running infected is a bad joke.... Anyone running an STF without any prior knowledge of what to expect & what to do is going to have a very bad time....

The new "Assimilated" mission is a perfect example... I tried it late at night and just kept getting whacked.... I gave up & tried again the next day & tried a new strategy... it worked perfectly and the mission was not zergy at all...

I had prior knowledge and came up with a strategy to deal with it... as we progress as players we accumulate different strategies to use and become more able to adapt to a new situation....

This is why the grouping part is important.... it is the sharing of knowledge & experience from the top down to the bottom of all players progression... it forces players to be a learner first then a teacher later... it forces a "leadership" function which can be very annoying to everyone....

A Solo-able version of the STF's should be available as a holodeck training simulation for a smaller reward... A difficulty slider should be available... perhaps a c-store or Latinum purchased holo-mission to pay for it's implementation...

The real STF's should stay as they are.... if u r having a bad time with them U R doing them wrong.... Keep trying... they are still challenging when U know what to do...

The Real Challenge is finding good people to play with... The solo-able STF will help Solo Players learn the missions so they are ready for the real thing... and the Solo player will have a chance to be a Good STF Player

in the opening hail once you beam down they tell you one of the best strategies, when you beam onto the ship they inform you "the borg do not see you as a threat and will leave you be as long as you do not interfear with any important ship systems or open fire." the only thing that mission and infected have in common are lots of borg.

[Archived Post]

What is coming?

Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Next Year.

Whatever it takes to draw as many people to and encourage them to stay with STO over the course of the next nine plus months MUST be done.

If that means making every last bit of this game soloable...
If that means converting SOT to a F2P+MT system...
So be it.

Blizzard was asked a few months back what their thoughts were about SW:TOR. To paraphrase the response, they feel that SW:TOR bears keeping a close eye on. Which suggests that they are a little uneasy.

Recently, Blizzard also stated that should WoW be surpassed, they would consider shifting to a Pay-to-play revenue model. There is nothing on the horizon that is even remotely in a position to approach, let alone surpass WoW other than SW:TOR.

I am not saying that it will be the prophesied "WoW Killer". But it is certainly going to be a major heavy hitter on the MMO horizon. It's novelty will wear off and we'll see where it truly stands. However, STO's novelty wore off at the end of the first 30 days and there has apparently been a steady decline in player population since. Cryptic is working their butts off to get as much delivered as quickly and efficiently as possible, but even knowing what is in the pipeline, people are bailing, or threatening to bail.

STO has the potential to become something totally amazing. It was launched two years nearly. But it has less than a year to prepare itself for the next major MMO release which will strip a significant percentage of players from our ranks. What ever it takes to maximize the player base, it needs to be done. I'm willing to lay aside my personal preferences for the sake of STO's survival in the face of what SW:TOR appears to be on the verge of doing.

They are in testing now, my friends. BioWare is testing the game in stages to ensure that each aspect is run through the ringer and ready to go. There has been more money invested in TOR as it will be at launch than any single MMO since the genra started. They are not playing around. They are dead serious. They are ready to throw the first punch in a new grudge match between industry leaders. And no matter how it ends up for SW:TOR, that punch is going to hurt a whole lot.

STO as it is now will not survive. It has to have the numbers and the encouragement for people to stick with it. So Cryptic must do whatever they have to to make it so.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" doomsayer. This MMO is tiny. SW:TOR is an irresistable force. WoW is the immovable object. And we are the insect directly between the two. We need to maximize our strength to minimize the damage.

[Archived Post]

I posted several times long ago (right when Infected came out) that there should be solo versions. Obviously difficulty=reward..... so you shouldn't be expecting nice purple drops from your solo run, even if you want to set it to Elite.

YES, we are talking about an MMO, but as most people that have been in other MMO's can testify to, there are frequently different versions of quests (solo, group, raid), so it's not unheard of and it shouldn't be hard to implement a risk vs reward system as well as a difficulty slider, and this shouldn't take too many people away from creating new content.

[Archived Post]

Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Next Year.

Whatever it takes to draw as many people to and encourage them to stay with STO over the course of the next nine plus months MUST be done.

If that means making every last bit of this game soloable...
If that means converting SOT to a F2P+MT system...
So be it.

Blizzard was asked a few months back what their thoughts were about SW:TOR. To paraphrase the response, they feel that SW:TOR bears keeping a close eye on. Which suggests that they are a little uneasy.

Recently, Blizzard also stated that should WoW be surpassed, they would consider shifting to a Pay-to-play revenue model. There is nothing on the horizon that is even remotely in a position to approach, let alone surpass WoW other than SW:TOR.

I am not saying that it will be the prophesied "WoW Killer". But it is certainly going to be a major heavy hitter on the MMO horizon. It's novelty will wear off and we'll see where it truly stands. However, STO's novelty wore off at the end of the first 30 days and there has apparently been a steady decline in player population since. Cryptic is working their butts off to get as much delivered as quickly and efficiently as possible, but even knowing what is in the pipeline, people are bailing, or threatening to bail.

STO has the potential to become something totally amazing. It was launched two years nearly. But it has less than a year to prepare itself for the next major MMO release which will strip a significant percentage of players from our ranks. What ever it takes to maximize the player base, it needs to be done. I'm willing to lay aside my personal preferences for the sake of STO's survival in the face of what SW:TOR appears to be on the verge of doing.

They are in testing now, my friends. BioWare is testing the game in stages to ensure that each aspect is run through the ringer and ready to go. There has been more money invested in TOR as it will be at launch than any single MMO since the genra started. They are not playing around. They are dead serious. They are ready to throw the first punch in a new grudge match between industry leaders. And no matter how it ends up for SW:TOR, that punch is going to hurt a whole lot.

STO as it is now will not survive. It has to have the numbers and the encouragement for people to stick with it. So Cryptic must do whatever they have to to make it so.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" doomsayer. This MMO is tiny. SW:TOR is an irresistable force. WoW is the immovable object. And we are the insect directly between the two. We need to maximize our strength to minimize the damage.

Pretty much sums up how I feel to. I was going to elaborate as to why, but I couldnt describe it better than you. I like playing STO, but I dont think my enjoyment of this game will be enough to make me stay once swtor comes out.

[Archived Post]

I posted several times long ago (right when Infected came out) that there should be solo versions. Obviously difficulty=reward..... so you shouldn't be expecting nice purple drops from your solo run, even if you want to set it to Elite.

YES, we are talking about an MMO, but as most people that have been in other MMO's can testify to, there are frequently different versions of quests (solo, group, raid), so it's not unheard of and it shouldn't be hard to implement a risk vs reward system as well as a difficulty slider, and this shouldn't take too many people away from creating new content.

This sounds great to me. I don't like playing with others because honestly I like moving through at my own speed and if I want to spend an hour looking at the scenery I'll do it; on the other hand if I feel like zipping through I don't want anyone holding me back either.

[Archived Post]

Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Next Year.

Whatever it takes to draw as many people to and encourage them to stay with STO over the course of the next nine plus months MUST be done.

If that means making every last bit of this game soloable...
If that means converting SOT to a F2P+MT system...
So be it.

Blizzard was asked a few months back what their thoughts were about SW:TOR. To paraphrase the response, they feel that SW:TOR bears keeping a close eye on. Which suggests that they are a little uneasy.

Recently, Blizzard also stated that should WoW be surpassed, they would consider shifting to a Pay-to-play revenue model. There is nothing on the horizon that is even remotely in a position to approach, let alone surpass WoW other than SW:TOR.

I am not saying that it will be the prophesied "WoW Killer". But it is certainly going to be a major heavy hitter on the MMO horizon. It's novelty will wear off and we'll see where it truly stands. However, STO's novelty wore off at the end of the first 30 days and there has apparently been a steady decline in player population since. Cryptic is working their butts off to get as much delivered as quickly and efficiently as possible, but even knowing what is in the pipeline, people are bailing, or threatening to bail.

STO has the potential to become something totally amazing. It was launched two years nearly. But it has less than a year to prepare itself for the next major MMO release which will strip a significant percentage of players from our ranks. What ever it takes to maximize the player base, it needs to be done. I'm willing to lay aside my personal preferences for the sake of STO's survival in the face of what SW:TOR appears to be on the verge of doing.

They are in testing now, my friends. BioWare is testing the game in stages to ensure that each aspect is run through the ringer and ready to go. There has been more money invested in TOR as it will be at launch than any single MMO since the genra started. They are not playing around. They are dead serious. They are ready to throw the first punch in a new grudge match between industry leaders. And no matter how it ends up for SW:TOR, that punch is going to hurt a whole lot.

STO as it is now will not survive. It has to have the numbers and the encouragement for people to stick with it. So Cryptic must do whatever they have to to make it so.

I'm not a "the sky is falling" doomsayer. This MMO is tiny. SW:TOR is an irresistable force. WoW is the immovable object. And we are the insect directly between the two. We need to maximize our strength to minimize the damage.

That is a great point you make, people being selfish and complaining there should be group only content because its a MMO and people should be forced to group are doing great harm to the game, hopefully cryptic is smart enough to listen to the fans that want the game to survive.

[Archived Post]

Forget Solo Friendly STFs.

I'd pay GOOD MONEY for more solo oriented Deep Space Encounters (DSE). Every time one comes up in my Mission Log, it always gets dumped because when I get jumped by a Klingon/Romulan/Hirogen/Etc no one is ever around to team up!

My opinion is leave STFs as group oriented, and focus on making DSEs soloable, and far less annoying!

:D

[Archived Post]

Keep in mind that over the past decade finding non-cretins with whom to group has become a full-time occupation.


Yep, and add that even if a player is "good" at the game, they may still be an insufferable jerkwad. I tend to hate most MMO people I have been around because of the attitudes. I hate people, but I love gaming. Not having to deal with them at all is a great feature for a game to have.

[Archived Post]

If this is even true, how is it different than the difficulty slider?

If I like playing on normal, advanced, or elite, I just move the slider.

If I wanted to play an STF by myself (and I do) then I'd just do it.

If you want to play with other people, fine...if we don't (and I don't) then that's fine too.

'nuff said, aight?

Of course. Your response is the most logical way to look at it. Unfortunately, people's egos are more important to a lot of players. "I think it should be this because I say so..." seems to be the dominant form of suggestions debate. Some players will just simply refuse to look at the stripped down, logical basis of the argument because they feel the game should be a certain way. There is no logical basis for it, but they will appeal to strawmen like "MMO equals forced grouping". Many of them also know that they are not likable people at all, and solo versions of the game means that people that previously had to put up with their idiocy can now tell them to take a flying leap.

[Archived Post]

As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

Unfortunately, my bridge crew outperforms 95% of players out there. Also heal better. Do things I want them to do at the right time. And listen to me. It wouldnt be that difficult to unlock that. To have it like any other mission with a difficulty slider. With Elite being renamed to Zerg.

[Archived Post]

Forget Solo Friendly STFs.

I'd pay GOOD MONEY for more solo oriented Deep Space Encounters (DSE). Every time one comes up in my Mission Log, it always gets dumped because when I get jumped by a Klingon/Romulan/Hirogen/Etc no one is ever around to team up!

My opinion is leave STFs as group oriented, and focus on making DSEs soloable, and far less annoying!

:D

Um DSE's are soloable, I've done it plenty of times - and I mean level appropriate ones.

[Archived Post]

Of course. Your response is the most logical way to look at it. Unfortunately, people's egos are more important to a lot of players. "I think it should be this because I say so..." seems to be the dominant form of suggestions debate. Some players will just simply refuse to look at the stripped down, logical basis of the argument because they feel the game should be a certain way. There is no logical basis for it, but they will appeal to strawmen like "MMO equals forced grouping". Many of them also know that they are not likable people at all, and solo versions of the game means that people that previously had to put up with their idiocy can now tell them to take a flying leap.

I hear you. So far I suppose I've said just that because I have not played any of the STF missions just because they force groups. Would I like to play them? Sure. With others? Maybe. By myself? I hope I get the chance, because this is how I prefer it. If I don't, so be it.

However I don't agree that the rewards should be changed due to the number of participants. If it's challenging for five people, then it can be the same for one.

[Archived Post]

Yesterday, I started this thread with this:

However, 18 pages in less than 24 hours have convinced me that we need to focus the discussion on HOW can the STF's be made soloable instead of IF they should.

I definitely like the STF's as group-content, but if there are good ideas out there on how to create a soloable version of the STF's, I'd like to discuss them here (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=167748).

I'd like to formally apologize to all those who think I'm seeking to prevent them from accessing any content. My intent was never to belittle any of you for preferring soloplay vs group-play.

I never felt you belittled us in the least man. In my response, I'll try to find it here in a bit, I simply pointed out a new perspective for you to look at. Apparently it's working. Thanks for your open-mindedness.

Edit: First response to this thread ->

I would have to say that I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the solo-friendly STF. With recent declines in overall player activity especially on the klingon side, this idea makes perfect sense.

I will yield however, that a solo STF should, in no way, be "easy". We are able to set up our BOs to make them behave and respond in a very controlled sort of way. Since the "teamwork" factor would then be removed, some other factor should be introduced, to give even the best BO setups, a good degree of difficulty.

I'll also add that I don't particularly care if the current STFs are left in place. I don't mind not getting ALL the marks available, but the ability to gain SOME marks would be fantastic !!

We already get solo PvP credit. Yeah, it sucks when fighting an organised PvP fleet when you're on an 'ad hoc' team, but at least it's do-able.

I hope that the OP can find this agreeable. Not everyone can find the time to run an STF when is agreeable for anyone else, at least not on a constant basis. I really do think a non-intrusive addition, as opposed to a change in what the groups already have, would do well in enhancing the overall "feel" of the game.



The key here is NOT taking away what the established groups can do together. Perhaps making new solo STFs all together. I'm never a fan of "nerf" even in regards to content. It may take devs longer to write and test new, solo, STFs, but I think that's the only amicable way to pull them off.

[Archived Post]

Yep, and add that even if a player is "good" at the game, they may still be an insufferable jerkwad. I tend to hate most MMO people I have been around because of the attitudes. I hate people, but I love gaming. Not having to deal with them at all is a great feature for a game to have.

Amen, I feel the same way. I hate MMO people, just about every last one of them. Its very rare I have a good experience with other players I meet in a MMO. So as I always like to ask, why would someone want to force people like us to group with them? Why would people want to team with people who will absolutely loathe them?

Its a bit silly if you ask me. You cant make a effective team if someone does not want to be on the team and hates the people on it.

[Archived Post]

Unfortunately, my bridge crew outperforms 95% of players out there. Also heal better. Do things I want them to do at the right time. And listen to me. It wouldnt be that difficult to unlock that. To have it like any other mission with a difficulty slider. With Elite being renamed to Zerg.

you know what's sad. The fact that your exactly right about the bridge officers being so much better than a lot of actual players out there. On my science officer I am just amazed when i go into a ground mission and I bring my science bridge officer and I never die.

[Archived Post]

I would suggest to the OP to ask the mods to lock this thread, Then to make a new thread and ask it to be stickied. Perhaps even propose a vote. At any rate, it's doubtful that anyone will read each page of this thread before giving a half prepared response.

[Archived Post]

You know what's odd guys? This thread has 21 pages, but once I started the other thread (http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=167748), to explore how STF's could be made solo-friendly, I only got about 4 pages of comments, most of them talking about the exact problems and reasons why I initially thought solo-versions of the STF's would simply be diluted episodes.

If it's any consolation, the new Season 2.0 mission, Assimilation, proves beyond shadow of a doubt, that Cryptic definitely can create content that feels epic and they definitely could create solo-friendly versions of the STF's. Question is, do the stories of the STF truly merit creating such versions? In my opinion, and having played several times through both Infected and the Cure, not really.

[Archived Post]

I'll take a solo-friendly STF for 100 Alex!

This may just be me, but I can rarely find a group to do them in the first place. If there was a solo option with restrictions I'd be happy. This way I'd not be stuck on Infected still and would be able to progress to the other STFs. :D

--Cirdi

[Archived Post]

I'll take a solo-friendly STF for 100 Alex!

This may just be me, but I can rarely find a group to do them in the first place. If there was a solo option with restrictions I'd be happy. This way I'd not be stuck on Infected still and would be able to progress to the other STFs. :D

--Cirdi

Still on the Infected? Ouch. Being part of an active fleet is very helpful in getting a STF team together. If you'd like, I could offer some assistance and I'm sure some other fleeties would be happy to as well. Usually complete Infected in just over an hour.

I'm still against the solo STF idea, though. I think its good to have some missions in an MMO that require a full team. In fact, I'm hopeful that Cryptic will create more of these STFs for lower levels. It's a bit strange to me that there is ZERO requirement to team up for anything until RA5.

[Archived Post]

Still on the Infected? Ouch. Being part of an active fleet is very helpful in getting a STF team together. If you'd like, I could offer some assistance and I'm sure some other fleeties would be happy to as well.

Yes LOL still on infected! I'm riding the STF short bus!

Thank you for your offer to help me with this. That is very generous of you! My fleet doesn't do STFs at the moment due to a lot of non-active players. I'm hoping that improves in the future.:D

--Cirdi

[Archived Post]

yes solo friendly you never find one person online

[Archived Post]

The way i see it, when majority of the players in this game develop teamwork skills is when i group up with them, because so far, all i see are players that just want to do it their way without discussing it or anything and moan when they die because they didn't tell me how they want me to proceed in their plan.

I tend to always play a Tactical Officer, admittedly, i am still trying to figure out what kit to use, i tend to use the one with the most buffs/debuffs on it and use them as they become available, but it seems everyone that plays on Elite difficulty setting and still finds it all too easy micromanage their away team abilities as well.....something of which i will NEVER be able to do.

I tend to let them do it their own way, it works on normal, but i am guessing it won't work on Advanced, let alone Elite.

[Archived Post]

I would agree with keeping them group oriented, BUT, they need to start listening to the players. If we are telling them that doing X in this part of STF-X's mission is too hard, ridiculous, time consuming, etc, then they should work with us to improve them. As far as I've seen, they haven't listened to any of the complaints about the STF's.

Correctamundo. Are you getting this devs ?

[Archived Post]

My feelings are, if you can't find groups that always go in the timeframe you are in, why not make them solo-friendly?

Not everyone can afford to wait 6 hours to get a group together, just to have 2 of your group leave for one reason or another.

[Archived Post]

Having More options for solo players would be helpful. It's obvious that these solo people are frustrated and that is an issue that should be addressed. It is unfortunate that players have a difficult time with PUG's and STF's - I hear u loud and clear on that. All it takes is one person not being up to par or acting foolishly to totally ruin an STF mission.

STF's in their current form are the only content we have that requires actual Team Play according to profession. Healers need to heal others, Eng. have to build the proper Fortifications in the right places and Tacs have to run point and seek and destroy nodes. These are important skills to have and the ability to pay attention, listen to others and act as a team is just as important.

Some of you solo players should get together in an anti-fleet or perhaps maybe if u were "a little" more social you could find a good group to take u through. Fleets help share knowledge and tactics necessary for successful runs through STF's as well as supply competent players to team with. It seems at the moment that fleets are percolating down to serious players and I've seen some consolidation of fleets lately.

Hopefully the solo players will get some love soon but in the meantime you guys might be suprised to find some mature and reasonable players in a Fleet to play with - ours has Brits, Frechies and Americans all playing separate times, but we still get STF runs together.

[Archived Post]

For what it is worth, I support the idea of solo and two or even three person STFs. Like many others in this thread I'm pushing the decades and I dont have lots of time to try to social thing and have to deal with some seriously lame people at times and I'm nearly always I'm hampered by time zone issues. Simply put the group part should be a bonus to game play not a requirement!

Moreover with the existing content, I think there are way to many trash mobs, asinine damage levels, a crappy AI and some areas are not well designed to boot - thinking spawn points. Moreover I think all the timers should be removed from stuff!! If I wanted to play beat the clock I would! Rushing to try to get things done really kills the experience for me. I like to take my time and enjoy the environment and the virtual world and not worry about how many times a second I can click something or be forced to waste a couple of hours getting back to the same spot again.

[Archived Post]

The STFs DESPERATELY need a makeover. They are horribly designed and they need to eliminate the "more mobs = greater difficulty" gameplay mechanic.

The STFs should be the BEST missions that are so fun you want to run them over and over. These need to be the missions that are the game's crown jewels, not the missions that seem to have come out the backside of a horse.

Drop the "forced 5-person" aspect and instead scale them the same way regular missions do. Make them possible with just you and your BOs, but provide something unique and interesting for those who want to run them as a group.

There needs to be a total change in the Dev teams thought process regarding the STFs... the only good thing about them is they at least now know what NOT to do..

[Archived Post]

As long as they work like a difficulty slider(where higher difficulty gets better rewards), there is no good reason not to make a solo-version in addition to the normal version. If you want higher difficulty, thats fine. But its actually rather selfish to think that your personal preferences should be forced on those that may not share them. More options are always better.

I agree. There are people who just want to play a lone. But it's more fun playing with others.