Death of the Fedball!

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PvP with PUGS most often ends up with a scattered fleet against a FedAmoeba that slowly moves around the map.

What's the fun in that?

I suggest that Cryptic make shields degrade in a Fedball like when you cloak so if you are there for more than 10 seconds you have zero shields until you move away from the other ships?

It would make PUG PvP fun again!

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this is such a great idea, why didn´t cryipzik introdukt it yet?

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It's been posted here that a good way to break up a Fedball is use Repulsors in the middle of it. And to a great extent it actually works.

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bad idea... the fedball is the only way to fend off a focused alphastrike....

but there ARE lots of ways to break the fedball! All it takes is for the other team to apply a tiny bit of tactics! Not just "find a target and fire on him". Even with focused fire that is rarely the best way to go.

One way is the proven bait&trap tactic, but believe me there are other just as good ways, that i rarely see applied.... Try thinking psycology, try thinking fire range, take advantage of your cloak and try breaking up your final goal into smaller more manageable goals: If you think "shoot him and don't die" you will break yourself against the fedball. Shouldn't your top priority be to break the fedball? After that is done, you can start focusing fire and killing.

good hunting!

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Sorry, there are ways to break up the Fedball. Learn them. Baiting or getting them to give chase can work, tractor beam repulsors works very well too when used properly.

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Great idea!

I got a better one!

How about an I-Win button instead!? :p

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It is hard to implement any of these strategies in a smaller ship like an Escort with totally unhelpful PUGS.

There is an IWIN button, it is called a Fedball.

My personal tactic is to try the bait and trap.

Once I have had my fill of the total lameness that is the Fedball, I cloak, park under the Starbase and minimize the program so I can check my email and browse the forums until the mission timer ends.

I'm merely offering an alternative to that and if these Fedball players are so awesome, then they can figure another way to break an Alphastrike, like maybe scattering.

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You don't like the Klinks because they have cheater ships and attack you from behind. You don't like Feds because they ball up and defend themselves. What exactly does your ideal opponent do? Self destruct?

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"I don't like people using the only viable defense against our invisibility, please remove it"

how about no?

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Start randomizing the respawn point, please. the "lets park where we respawn" thing is getting old. Ball up, fine. But having respawns always right there? That isnt a "tactic"

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You don't like the Klinks because they have cheater ships and attack you from behind. You don't like Feds because they ball up and defend themselves. What exactly does your ideal opponent do? Self destruct?

Haha ! +1 :o

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It is hard to implement any of these strategies in a smaller ship like an Escort with totally unhelpful PUGS.

It's not that hard. Most of the breaking is a one man job. All you need to communicate to the others is "let me go in first, follow 5 seconds behind me"

There is an IWIN button, it is called a Fedball.

bah... there are good fedballs and bad fedballs.... when executed to perfection in a premade team it can easily become a IWIN button, unless the opposing team is equally awsome... But having the best team win is not a bad thing :p Best team meaning best TEAMWORK! Do not expect to take down a premade fedball in a PUG that isn't even teamed up.... A PUG fedball on the other hand, is broken with little or no effort, or may not even require breaking if they're balling up without healing each other :D[/QUOTE]

Once I have had my fill of the total lameness that is the Fedball, I cloak, park under the Starbase and minimize the program so I can check my email and browse the forums until the mission timer ends.

Never mind the fedball... YOU are bad for the game!

I'm merely offering an alternative to that and if these Fedball players are so awesome, then they can figure another way to break an Alphastrike, like maybe scattering.

Sadly, scattering is not a good option if the Alphastrike is focusing on one guy... It makes healing impossible, and the klink ships are more maneuvrable so escaping is not an option.... at least when you're flying a cruiser...

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I'm merely offering an alternative to that and if these Fedball players are so awesome, then they can figure another way to break an Alphastrike, like maybe scattering.Scattering is about the worst thing they can do.

The Fedball is teamwork. When it works you have some players DPSing, some healing, and some doing crazy science stuff. Everybody plays as a team and supports one another. If that's not happening then the "Fedball" is really just a collection of individual targets, and you can just kill them one at a time. Of course if your team is a collection of individuals unleashing their alphas on separate targets, you still won't be especially successful.

The Fedball tends to be a lot more dynamic in FvF than FvK, because when the other team can't cloak it's safer to spread out a bit and just come together when you come in contact.

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I give up.

It was an idea to break up the neuballs.

If you all like them then fine.

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Thlaylie sorry you got shot down in flames but its gotta be the worst suggestion iv read in a long while m8
thus is the problem you cant penalise a group for using the only strategy they know that works.
preseason 1.2 klings could handel pug fed balls no problem (without coop) now even poor fed players
in a fed ball can give klings (with coop) a good show.
i just hope some day that cryptic will unnerf klings ;)

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Fedball is poor mans substitute for team work. Its not as effective as true teamwork, but its alot better than to fly solo all over the map. I prefer teams of 3 or 4 in CaH tho. The huge fedballs there are stupid.

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OK guys.

I know it will sound dumb. But right now, I am dumb.
Care to educate?

So what's a PUG? and Fedball?

You know, better yet, many things are abbreviated throughout these forums.
Is there a user-friendly post or that has all these terms pre-written for me?
Please?

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PUG means pick up group. Fedball is the standard Federation pvp practice of staying in a tight clump to make it harder for klingons to get alpha strike kills.

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If you all like them then fine.

Actually I think they suck, but they are a response to cloaking being such an insane tactical advantage that no other tactic can get the feds an even fight. If you want to bust the fedball look at the reason why people are doing that...

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Theres a Fedball - CHARGE!!! :D

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Does this scenario seem familiar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEhd5M9uHho

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You really have issues with the Fedball don't you? Never seen someone cry about it so much. Adjust your tactics, sweetheart.

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Start randomizing the respawn point, please. the "lets park where we respawn" thing is getting old. Ball up, fine. But having respawns always right there? That isnt a "tactic"

As far as I am aware the only maps that have static respawns are Cap and Holds. Why would anyone forma a fedball around the respawn in that type of map. Its just pointless.
The arenas such as solar wind and cracked planetoid have multiple respawn points which are more random.

So it seems that your wish came true (back in february when the game was launched)

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In my mind the fedball is just a formation used to maximize teamwork and healing in battle while you await the alpha strike from the opposing wolfpack. I don't really see the issue with it on the Klingon side, or Fed side when I play.


I'm merely offering an alternative to that and if these Fedball players are so awesome, then they can figure another way to break an Alphastrike, like maybe scattering.


Scattering is usually a bad idea because you leave the range of your healers and lose support capability. That being said, CSV from 1.2 to 2.0 made the fedball more fragile since scattering was a tactic to get out of the volley.

Sorry, there are ways to break up the Fedball. Learn them. Baiting or getting them to give chase can work, tractor beam repulsors works very well too when used properly.

Yeah, generally on my Klingon I've found that flying in and firing repulsors can work. Or you can try and take advantage of the fedball having everyone close together:

Photonic Shockwave inside the fedball
Cannon Scatter Volley or Torpedo Spread on the clumped targets (granted CSV is less effective post-2.0
Tychen's and/or gravity well in the fedball (either weakens and holds them there, or they evasive maneuvers and scatter away)
Scramble Sensors to try and make healing harder on the feds


Baiting also works, especially if the fed team has anyone with tunnel vision. I can't recall how many times something like this has happened on a PUG team:

* damaged raptor starts flying away *
Me: "/team Don't chase him, he's baiting you"
* escort starts chasing, now he's 20k away *
* raptor turns around, and with another kling who respawned nearby takes down the escort faster than Fat Albert eats a twinkie*
Escort: /zone <insert complaining here>
Me and the Raptor Pilot: "/zone Well then don't chase next time."

Causing the team to split in half mid-battle can also work I've noticed. I see this more on my fed chars, and I don't know if it's intentional or just accidental on the part of the Klingons. But I'll find after a long battle that part of the team has drifted away focusing on one or two klingons who are tanking and/or out-healing the damage. And now you have 2 partial fedballs, and the healer is out of range of the other.

As far as I am aware the only maps that have static respawns are Cap and Holds. Why would anyone forma a fedball around the respawn in that type of map. Its just pointless.
The arenas such as solar wind and cracked planetoid have multiple respawn points which are more random.

Yeah, arenas have always had random respawns. That's why usually when you respawn fed side you have to see if anyone is still alive in the old battle (or will be alive by the time you get there). Otherwise you have to reform and regroup at a new location.

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Dude I love the fedball.

I just pop all my Tac buffs and lay down a stream of EWP III.

I've had over 100k dmg on one pass before....

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Dude I love the fedball.

I just pop all my Tac buffs and lay down a stream of EWP III.

I've had over 100k dmg on one pass before....

I saw you yesterday stride (TWICE) in middle of 5 enemies, getting vaporized and then complaining about 5vs1 :p must have been one of the rare occassions, when the above didnt work i guess ? :o

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Fedball is poor mans substitute for team work. Its not as effective as true teamwork, but its alot better than to fly solo all over the map. I prefer teams of 3 or 4 in CaH tho. The huge fedballs there are stupid.It's not a substitute for teamwork, it *is* teamwork. Not necessarily *good* teamwork, but that's a different story :)

From the Klingon side it starts becoming obvious that even though a group of players is clumped together, that doesn't always mean they're working together. Assault Cruisers and Galaxy-R's can put out enough healing to keep any escort alive through the alpha strike, but that doesn't mean they're going to do it. And with everyone clumped up, it's easy to just watch the first set of beams and then focus on that target, but again, there's no guarantees the PUGgers will do the smart thing.

If there's not teamwork then the fedball doesn't really do any good.

I kind of get the impression the OP was talking about Cap and Hold though, where a team will all get together and all roll from one point to the next. That's an easy way to get kills, but it only helps win the match if the other team tries to meet you head on -- if they just spread out and take every node where the fedball *isn't* then they will slow the ball down enough as they get slaughtered in one's and twos that the fedball can't capture enough points.

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The Fed Ball thats a new one. It use to be Fed cattleherd. A new tactic of spam mining the area has been added. This tactic seem to work since if you untarget a ship you may target a mine.

I think its great when the Fed ships herd up when the Feds blow up they normally dmg. each other.

Since the Klinks hunt in a wolfpack sitting there in a herd tactic is effective. untill the game changes thats how a fed vs klink battle is going to happen.

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You really have issues with the Fedball don't you? Never seen someone cry about it so much. Adjust your tactics, sweetheart.

I have and someone QQ'd that I was BAD for the game.

Sadly I am a Fed in a TER, not a Klingon.

I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

In the cheatboat ( sci ship all holds, codenamed "pedo") scenario, you go outside and his bros hold you down while he pounds you. DISHONORABLE!!

You say that whatever works is alright, I just have a problem with the dishonor.

I will be quiet on the subject from now on, but remember your dishonor as you commit dishonorable acts and think how Trek you really are.

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I have and someone QQ'd that I was BAD for the game.

Sadly I am a Fed in a TER, not a Klingon.

I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

In the cheatboat ( sci ship all holds, codenamed "pedo") scenario, you go outside and his bros hold you down while he pounds you. DISHONORABLE!!

You say that whatever works is alright, I just have a problem with the dishonor.

I will be quiet on the subject from now on, but remember your dishonor as you commit dishonorable acts and think how Trek you really are.

Starship combat is neither Fist fighting or Sexual intercourse, adjust your tactics accordingly.

S*D

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I saw you yesterday stride (TWICE) in middle of 5 enemies, getting vaporized and then complaining about 5vs1 :p must have been one of the rare occassions, when the above didnt work i guess ? :o

I can only take so many SubNoobs solo!!!

But better then playing the opposite way like you Mr. 5 Fed ships vs. 1 enemy!

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I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!


Hmmm actually I don't think I understand...

A "fight's a fight" but you attack a guy and his 11 buddies on the sheer notion that he's "called you out?" And whine when 6 of his buddies pile on you?

Is this what you do in your "real world?"

The only link I can find in your analogy is that you're charging 12 people by yourself for no good reason...

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I can only take so many SubNoobs solo!!!

But better then playing the opposite way like you Mr. 5 Fed ships vs. 1 enemy!

I was actually on your team, and even tried to heal you the first time, i just saw you from distance the second time. So like usual, get your facts straight, before you open your big mouth on me Mr.i can pwn everything solo.

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I have and someone QQ'd that I was BAD for the game.

Sadly I am a Fed in a TER, not a Klingon.

I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

In the cheatboat ( sci ship all holds, codenamed "pedo") scenario, you go outside and his bros hold you down while he pounds you. DISHONORABLE!!

You say that whatever works is alright, I just have a problem with the dishonor.

I will be quiet on the subject from now on, but remember your dishonor as you commit dishonorable acts and think how Trek you really are.

As a bouncer, (Doorman, cooler, or night club security guard), 1992-2006, I have faced a few of the scenarios you described in real life on a regular basis. Dishonorable as it is that is reality. What I learned to do was not stand and deliver, but instead to stay as mobile as possible, and create space by pushing or pulling opponents into each other, or even be being where I was not expected to be, (no replacement for displacement;)).

While I admit these things are difficult to do in the game they are not impossible, tractors, repulsors, tyken's rift and other crowd control techniques in the game facilitate aikido like tactics. While I find your suggestion, no shields if Fed balled longer than 10 seconds, evidence of a lazy mind, (you read Niven so I know your not intellectually lazy but it is bothersome that you would rather cloak and check your e-mail than find a viable solution to the problem you have laid out), I must say thank you as it has caused me to rethink my build and to find a way of adding at least one of the science skills for hearding purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdUBoEWIZt0 Best regards friend.

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I was actually on your team, and even tried to heal you the first time, i just saw you from distance the second time. So like usual, get your facts straight, before you open your big mouth on me Mr.i can pwn everything solo.

I think you have me confused with someone else Ms. I can see all the action from 45km away!

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I have and someone QQ'd that I was BAD for the game.

Sadly I am a Fed in a TER, not a Klingon.

I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

In the cheatboat ( sci ship all holds, codenamed "pedo") scenario, you go outside and his bros hold you down while he pounds you. DISHONORABLE!!

You say that whatever works is alright, I just have a problem with the dishonor.

I will be quiet on the subject from now on, but remember your dishonor as you commit dishonorable acts and think how Trek you really are.

It is called Wargames (FvF) or an actual war (KvF). It's not a duel, so honor matters only little. It might do for the KLingons, but their understanding of honor is not neccessarily yours - Klingons are warriors that actually fought wars and conquered other races. It's not just a ritual to them, it has to work in the real world, too.

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Now I get to post why the various cheat powers should not work in the game using canon!

ALL Beam target to anything would only work when shields are down on the facing arc!

Shields are electromagnetic deflector fields and would deflect ALL incoming energy. If you wish to beam target anything you must first drop the shields on that side. This also makes beam target shields stupid, as you need to drop the shields for it to work!

Viral matrix? Where did that come from the Borg? anywho that also requires the shields be gone. I would also make it backfire 1 out of 5 times as it's Borg tech. Same with SNB!

Tyken's Rift. NO, just NO. If you need to play a Mage go to WoW. If any faction in Star Trek had gravitational tech of this magnetude they would be using a gravity drive and not warp drive!

AND to give equal faction attention. The Battlecloak should not work on a ship that does not have shields! Cloaking uses the Deflectors to work (Ref. TOS) so if an arc is missing a shield, you should maintain lock until he can get that shield back up! That means after you have reduced that pesky BoP to tinfoil, he should not be able to cloak because that rear arc you've been pounding has no shield.

Unfortunately this reasoning supports FBP.

So Cryptic, please hurry these canon fixes in so we all can enjoy a more realistic game experience! :cool:

Taking 5 seconds off ALL the cooldown timers would be good as well. Too much of a waiting game.

[Archived Post]

Now I get to post why the various cheat powers should not work in the game using canon!

ALL Beam target to anything would only work when shields are down on the facing arc!

Shields are electromagnetic deflector fields and would deflect ALL incoming energy. If you wish to beam target anything you must first drop the shields on that side. This also makes beam target shields stupid, as you need to drop the shields for it to work!

Viral matrix? Where did that come from the Borg? anywho that also requires the shields be gone. I would also make it backfire 1 out of 5 times as it's Borg tech. Same with SNB!

Tyken's Rift. NO, just NO. If you need to play a Mage go to WoW. If any faction in Star Trek had gravitational tech of this magnetude they would be using a gravity drive and not warp drive!

AND to give equal faction attention. The Battlecloak should not work on a ship that does not have shields! Cloaking uses the Deflectors to work (Ref. TOS) so if an arc is missing a shield, you should maintain lock until he can get that shield back up! That means after you have reduced that pesky BoP to tinfoil, he should not be able to cloak because that rear arc you've been pounding has no shield.

Unfortunately this reasoning supports FBP.

So Cryptic, please hurry these canon fixes in so we all can enjoy a more realistic game experience! :cool:

Taking 5 seconds off ALL the cooldown timers would be good as well. Too much of a waiting game.

*facepalm*

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I'm thinking you should facepalm yourself more Bob if you intend to dispute Canon and logic.

I realize you don't have much ammo in those areas, but at least take a shot instead of lamely posting "facepalm" which I would do at most of your posts if I were lame enough to actually facepalm.

[Archived Post]

Now I get to post why the various cheat powers should not work in the game using canon!

ALL Beam target to anything would only work when shields are down on the facing arc!

Shields are electromagnetic deflector fields and would deflect ALL incoming energy. If you wish to beam target anything you must first drop the shields on that side. This also makes beam target shields stupid, as you need to drop the shields for it to work!

Viral matrix? Where did that come from the Borg? anywho that also requires the shields be gone. I would also make it backfire 1 out of 5 times as it's Borg tech. Same with SNB!

Tyken's Rift. NO, just NO. If you need to play a Mage go to WoW. If any faction in Star Trek had gravitational tech of this magnetude they would be using a gravity drive and not warp drive!

AND to give equal faction attention. The Battlecloak should not work on a ship that does not have shields! Cloaking uses the Deflectors to work (Ref. TOS) so if an arc is missing a shield, you should maintain lock until he can get that shield back up! That means after you have reduced that pesky BoP to tinfoil, he should not be able to cloak because that rear arc you've been pounding has no shield.

Unfortunately this reasoning supports FBP.

So Cryptic, please hurry these canon fixes in so we all can enjoy a more realistic game experience! :cool:

Taking 5 seconds off ALL the cooldown timers would be good as well. Too much of a waiting game.

None of these "cheatpowers" have no counters..

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I'm thinking you should facepalm yourself more Bob if you intend to dispute Canon and logic.

I realize you don't have much ammo in those areas, but at least take a shot instead of lamely posting "facepalm" which I would do at most of your posts if I were lame enough to actually facepalm.

"Canon"?

So we should have Enterprises that omgwtfpwn everything?
Defiants that oneshot more or less anything?
BOPs that blow up if you look at them wrong?
Galaxy class cruisers that blow up from a single ram from a frigate?
Borg that are invulnerable to your weapon after 2nd or 3rd kill?
Crews and Ships that are *gone* if they are killed/destroyed?

Doesnt sound very fun to me :p

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I'm thinking you should facepalm yourself more Bob if you intend to dispute Canon and logic.

I realize you don't have much ammo in those areas, but at least take a shot instead of lamely posting "facepalm" which I would do at most of your posts if I were lame enough to actually facepalm.

I debated whether I should even dignify your quote with a response. The facepalm just came out by accident.

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Never said they did.

I merely demonstarted using Trek Canon how they should be modified to provide a more realistic game experience.

Using Trek Canon!

Nothing personal Bob, you just make a fuss over everything I post.

If you don't like it, don't post!

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"Canon"?

So we should have Enterprises that omgwtfpwn everything?
Defiants that oneshot more or less anything?
BOPs that blow up if you look at them wrong?
Galaxy class cruisers that blow up from a single ram from a frigate?
Borg that are invulnerable to your weapon after 2nd or 3rd kill?
Crews and Ships that are *gone* if they are killed/destroyed?

Doesnt sound very fun to me :p


Don't know where you got all that mess,

Only people effected are those relying on the powers I listed.

Most of them still work, they just need to pound down a shield, instead of all the IWIN.

And it's Canon!

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Don't know where you got all that mess,

I guess you haven't seen the shows...

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OK I'll answer that one:

"So we should have Enterprises that omgwtfpwn everything?"

Sure, in their class levels and times. I was under the impression that the Captain's decisions played a large part in their success.

"Defiants that oneshot more or less anything?"

See above answer.

"BOPs that blow up if you look at them wrong?"

I got the impression that these were captained by less than inteligent Captains and I am willing to bet there are Klingon "Enterprises" out there.

"Galaxy class cruisers that blow up from a single ram from a frigate?"

The Galaxy has always been quite pathetic, especially compared to the original Enterprise. Being rammed by a shuttle should do a lot of damage and if hit in the right place any ship should go up, antimatter and all.

"Borg that are invulnerable to your weapon after 2nd or 3rd kill?"

Invulnerable if the weapons now available didn't modulate automatically like cell phones now do.

"Crews and Ships that are *gone* if they are killed/destroyed?"

Once you've been killed in a PvP match, you should be out of that match, better luck next time.

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Your understanding of canon is weak.

Subsystem targeting and disabled systems were shown repeatedly in Trek, the shields never had to go down.

Viral matrix is based on several different episodes where comupter viruses were used to totally shut down a ship. The Yamato was destroyed by one, and the Enterprise almost destroyed by the same one, the Defiant was completely disabled by one. The Borg never used a computer virus.

Tykens Rift is not the power you're looking to whine about. I assume you mean Gravity well. As far as canon goes, the Romulans in fact do use artificial singularities to power their ships, and to power their warp drives.

As for cloaking, the deflector is what does that, not the shields. Note the difference. Its like shifting a car into reverse. Your forward gears can be a mess, like lost shields, but if your gearshift and reverse gear still works, then you can go in reverse.

[Archived Post]

Your understanding of canon is weak.

Subsystem targeting and disabled systems were shown repeatedly in Trek, the shields never had to go down.

Viral matrix is based on several different episodes where comupter viruses were used to totally shut down a ship. The Yamato was destroyed by one, and the Enterprise almost destroyed by the same one, the Defiant was completely disabled by one. The Borg never used a computer virus.

Tykens Rift is not the power you're looking to whine about. I assume you mean Gravity well. As far as canon goes, the Romulans in fact do use artificial singularities to power their ships, and to power their warp drives.

As for cloaking, the deflector is what does that, not the shields. Note the difference. Its like shifting a car into reverse. Your forward gears can be a mess, like lost shields, but if your gearshift and reverse gear still works, then you can go in reverse.


My Canon understanding appears better than those who try to justify the current system to keep it.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?

All the mentioned encounters were long in the past, I'm sure modern ships have "anti-mallware."

ANY gravity technology of that level invalidates the use of warp drive.

Cloaking using the deflector grid.. You are correct. Forgive me I am only half Trekkie. However if I have been pounding the aft arc of a ship and am damaging the hull, Battlecloaking should be effected as cloaks have been demonstrated to be fragile. I'd say less than 50% Hull and you're SOL!

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"Galaxy class cruisers that blow up from a single ram from a frigate?"

The Galaxy has always been quite pathetic, especially compared to the original Enterprise. Being rammed by a shuttle should do a lot of damage and if hit in the right place any ship should go up, antimatter and all.

Yes they should make it canon by allowing ram at 100% health again - and give shuttles to everyone. I would totally fly one and go kamikaze spec.

"Borg that are invulnerable to your weapon after 2nd or 3rd kill?"

Invulnerable if the weapons now available didn't modulate automatically like cell phones now do.

The Borg adapt to the modulation...they're a bit beyond cell phones.

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My Canon understanding appears better than those who try to justify the current system to keep it.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?

Sensors. Communication System. Both seem to penetrate shields just fine, otherwise you'd be blind and deaf behind shields. Or at least invisible and couldn't send "We come in peace, stop shooting us" messages.

It happens that Viral Matrix uses a sensor problem that seems to penetrate shields. They probably can't fit a warhead into it because the tech to harmonize with the shields takes too much space, but they can fit a computer program in it.

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Now I get to post why the various cheat powers should not work in the game using canon!

I guess I'm not too hung up on the canonical reasons behind the powers since it's a Trek-inspired game and not a Trek episode. However even if it were an episode, I would point out that frequently Trek episodes would invent Deus Ex Machine explanations quite frequently to explain workarounds to established cannon.

None of these "cheatpowers" have no counters..

But Meline is correct, they generally have counters in game. Off the top of my head:

Target subsystem counters: Raise power levels with a Battery, EPtX, or EPS Power Transfer. Or clear the debuff with Engineering Team.

Bleedthrough: Increase hull and shield resistances: Hazard Emitters, Aux to SIF, Attack Pattern Delta, Transfer Shield Strength

VM and SNB: Science Team

Tyken's Rift: EPS to get through the power drain, evasive maneuver to get out of the rift

Battlecloack: The science sensor sweep power, or charged particle burst or photonic shockwave if you suspect you're still in range of them

My Canon understanding appears better than those who try to justify the current system to keep it.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?


Piggybacking the virus on a communications signal? Launching a probe that's small enough to not alert the opponent, but large enough to pack gear that lets it modulate it's way through the shields? Again, this is Star Trek after all so we can come up with engineering/science gibberish to explain away almost anything to suit the plot.


All the mentioned encounters were long in the past, I'm sure modern ships have "anti-mallware."

Microsoft won the contract. And then they subcontracted the programming work to the Pakled since they were the lowest bidders.


ANY gravity technology of that level invalidates the use of warp drive.

Scotty and LaForge could make it work heh. Again, this is Trek so typically you could come up with a Deus Ex Machina solution regardless of canon, and then make it canon.


Cloaking using the deflector grid.. You are correct. Forgive me I am only half Trekkie. However if I have been pounding the aft arc of a ship and am damaging the hull, Battlecloaking should be effected as cloaks have been demonstrated to be fragile. I'd say less than 50% Hull and you're SOL!

I'd almost semi-agree that there should be a way in game to target a cloaking device (like in how episodes someone would say how they couldn't cloak). However, if you take out the ship's engines, then move in for say a CPB or shockwave, you can in essence do that. And then I realized that in game, I don't find battlecloak to be that much of a I-Win power, when I'm flying Klingon or Fed so I'm not sure we need a specific target cloaking device power.

Yes they should make it canon by allowing ram at 100% health again - and give shuttles to everyone. I would totally fly one and go kamikaze spec.


Yeah, full health ram used to be my anti-battlecloak power heh. What's that, they jam sensored me and battlecloacked in front of me? Roll the dice and ramming speed where I last saw him. BOOM!


The Borg adapt to the modulation...they're a bit beyond cell phones.

Verizon Guy: Can you hear me now? Good, you will be assimilated.

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The Borg adapt to the modulation...they're a bit beyond cell phones.

Not by much, can you say EMP grenade?

That would not only shut down the Borg attacking you, but kill the local infestation as well.

IBut Meline is correct, they generally have counters in game. Off the top of my head:

Target subsystem counters: Raise power levels with a Battery, EPtX, or EPS Power Transfer. Or clear the debuff with Engineering Team.

Bleedthrough: Increase hull and shield resistances: Hazard Emitters, Aux to SIF, Attack Pattern Delta, Transfer Shield Strength

VM and SNB: Science Team

Tyken's Rift: EPS to get through the power drain, evasive maneuver to get out of the rift

Battlecloack: The science sensor sweep power, or charged particle burst or photonic shockwave if you suspect you're still in range of them.

This would be so awesome if only I could have 15 BO slots so i could have all these counters...

Maybe it would be better just not to have all this extra crap and maybe fight with weapons?

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Even with todays technology, shielding vital systems from EMP is easiy enough.

I can counter all of those things on my BoP and i only have 11 BO slots

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Part of the game is deciding how defensive and how offensive you want to be. You can counter a lot thrown at you, but then you won't do much offensively. If you don't like getting hit by certain powers, learn what the counter is and work it into your build. If you have to give up something to do that, well gee, that is the choice you have to make.

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Or I could whine on these forums and get it changed like many other things have been good and bad.

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Don't know where you got all that mess,

Only people effected are those relying on the powers I listed.

Most of them still work, they just need to pound down a shield, instead of all the IWIN.

And it's Canon!

ok..

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/6v6FvK.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/4v4FvK.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/2v4-FvF-190810.jpg

My loadout is 3xDHC 1xTorp Front, 1xTurret 1xTorp Rear

Tac BO : CRF1, CRF3, APO1, HYT2, HYT1, TacTeam
Eng BO : EP2S1, RSP
Sci BO : HE1, MES2

Im without many of those counters to the "IWIN", How do you explain that I not only do not die often to the "IWINS" but actually consistently have high damage.

*Note* the 2v4 match were Escort+Cruiser against 2xEscort and 2xScience (Science packs a lot of "IWNS")
The 2 other matches were both against Klingons, and BOPs have a tendency to field a lot of nasty Science skills as well.

Its about knowing what skills to use when, when to bug out, when to return..

In short, there is no "IWIN" there are skilled players, and lesser skilled players.

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Nothing personal Bob, you just make a fuss over everything I post.

If you don't like it, don't post!

If you want to call it "make a fuss" then sure. Your posts are just so ridiculously easy to flame that I can't help myself. Pure entertainment. If I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt, I'd say you don't even read what you're saying before you post it. Makes it that much easier for me.

Not by much, can you say EMP grenade?

That would not only shut down the Borg attacking you, but kill the local infestation as well.

Let's say EMP grenade were an actual skill in game. Are you saying you wouldn't ***** and moan about it being used against you? "Waaah EMP grenade isn't canon it's a cheater skill! I just want to run in and pew pew 10 people at once"

Would that be exempt from your cheat powers list? If so, please explain.

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Or I could whine on these forums ...

Well, we were bound to agree on something eventually. Carry on.

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I'm here to deliver a bridge and I need the OP to sign for it please.

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"Borg that are invulnerable to your weapon after 2nd or 3rd kill?"

Invulnerable if the weapons now available didn't modulate automatically like cell phones now do.

Cell phones don't hop frequencies randomly, that's why you can talk to people on them. They follow a key (as in a musical "key"; the technology was created by actress Hedy Lamarr and composer George Anthiell who treated the frequencies like notes on a musical scale).

When you have several systems which need to use the same frequencies at the same time, they can't hop frequencies randomly. In the case of a starship, the shields, weapons, and sensors all need to be synchronized. Beyond that, the shields and communication equipment on every ship in the fleet need to be synchronized.

When the technology was created in 1942, it was virtually impossible to match the frequency hops without physical access to the key, which was stored on player-piano rolls. But that was when computers were in their infancy, now it's trivial to match a cell phone's frequency hops, and even military-grade radios can be matched in under a minute by mobile systems. Like a musical key, once you hear enough notes, you know the whole key. A more complex key takes more processing power to match, but this is the Borg we're talking about.

You could make it so a ship's own systems are completely random, but once you want two ships to be able to talk to one another, they need a shared key, and once there is a key it can be copied.

((The Pentagon decided against using the technology in 1942, and informed Hedy Lamarr that her assets would be better employed modeling for propaganda posters and selling war bonds. It's kind of a cool story to me because in other ways Hedy Lamarr seems to be such a stereotypical Hollywood starlet. All modern wireless communications are based on something created by an avant-garde composer and a 29-year-old actress who ended up married a half-dozen times to wealthy and powerful men, the last of which was her divorce lawyer. On top of that neither of them were professional scientists, they were just a couple of immigrants with an idea of how to help their naturalized country in the war effort. History is awesome.))

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ok..

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/6v6FvK.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/4v4FvK.jpg
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t16/AyanamiAhazi/2v4-FvF-190810.jpg

My loadout is 3xDHC 1xTorp Front, 1xTurret 1xTorp Rear

Tac BO : CRF1, CRF3, APO1, HYT2, HYT1, TacTeam
Eng BO : EP2S1, RSP
Sci BO : HE1, MES2

Im without many of those counters to the "IWIN", How do you explain that I not only do not die often to the "IWINS" but actually consistently have high damage.

*Note* the 2v4 match were Escort+Cruiser against 2xEscort and 2xScience (Science packs a lot of "IWNS")
The 2 other matches were both against Klingons, and BOPs have a tendency to field a lot of nasty Science skills as well.

Its about knowing what skills to use when, when to bug out, when to return..

In short, there is no "IWIN" there are skilled players, and lesser skilled players.

I never said I fail to get high scores (at least 300000 now, usually double that) and win a lot of the time, it's just frustrating to have fricken mages in STO!

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Cell phones don't hop frequencies randomly, that's why you can talk to people on them. They follow a key (as in a musical "key"; the technology was created by actress Hedy Lamarr and composer George Anthiell who treated the frequencies like notes on a musical scale).

I didn't know that. Intriguing!

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I never said I fail to get high scores (at least 300000 now, usually double that) and win a lot of the time, it's just frustrating to have fricken mages in STO!

Mmm.. You said the problem was that they were "IWin" skills

If you win a lot of the time, and consistently have high scores.. Then the problem obviously isnt that they are "IWin" skills (or you wouldnt have high scores, wouldnt "win a lot")..

You might say/think after a particular round "Oh blah! He wouldnt have won if he didnt have a tykens/tractor there"

When you win, he might think/say "Oh blah! He wouldnt have won if he didnt have 4 damage buffs and 5 weaponskills"


It sounds more like you dont like the *concept* of CC skills, but what do you expect.. Science and Cruisers with the same raw damage potential as Escorts?

Esch class give something up for its "speciality".. Escorts have DPS but are are fragile, Science have CC, but have low direct weapon damage and cruisers are mobile fortresses (the good ones atleast) but are about as nimble as a brick of lead in water.

You want the fight to be "guns guns guns" basically limiting us to one class, one setup..

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I "expect" an accurate portrayal of the Star trek IP where science ships do not fight and are much more fragile than the Escorts who would be with them on any mission.

A Cruiser should be able to sustain the portrayed by the shows massive amounts of damage and an Escort should be able to dish out said amount of damage.

Klingon ships are supposed to be less well kept up due to the culture's bias toward non warrior types.

This would not be balanced, but it would be accurate and not far from the current state of the game without the stretching to include mages and their spells.

You must admit the interface should be less button intensive. When I tell a BO to give me emergency power to shields for example, I expect him to do so until I tell him to stop. I also expect coms to shut the hell up until I acknowledge them rather than but in at stupid times to tell me something I already know.

Less MMO, more Trek!!

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I also expect coms to shut the hell up until I acknowledge them rather than but in at stupid times to tell me something I already know.

You can turn off those notifications, sweetie. Just thought I'd let you know, even though you probably could have figured that out for yourself.

I've sent you at least four friend invites in-game over the past month or so. Do you ever actually log in or just channel all your noobness into spewing putrid garbage all over the forums? I'd love to fight you - on your terms. No sci skills, no cloak, etc. I need to practice mindlessly facerolling my keyboard for when they change gameplay to suit your needs as a result of the extreme merit and validity of your particular brand of putrid garbage.

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I'm thinking you must be pretty delusional. I have excepted EVERY friend invite ever sent me in this game. I routinely help people just because and they inevitably ask to be my friend.

I channel the combined frustrations of my Fleet members, NONE of which has ever graced this forum. They wonder where the stupid changes are coming from and I sadly have to inform them of the forum whining elite who cause all game changes.

So add insulating all Devs from this forum to the list of game changes I want that you don't like.

The saddest thing is that you attack me when I ask for changes, yet even more direct changes have come from others posting on this forum. Klingons especially loath those changes and if I'm not mistaken Bob, you are definitely a Klingon.

I think you just have a thing for me :p

Thank you for the notification turn off, I hope you mean it stops the BO windows because that's what I'm talking about.

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Well I keep sending that friend invite. I'll send it, wait a week, then send it again. Done this several times.

And I play both Fed and Klingon.

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I think you just have a thing for me :p

Of course I do. It's obvious by now. It's nothing personal, really. I don't know you. I've never met you...and I never will - but I'll be damned if you're not THE most hilarious person to flame in the entire forum community.

That being said, here's some eye candy:

I suggest that Cryptic make shields degrade in a Fedball like when you cloak so if you are there for more than 10 seconds you have zero shields until you move away from the other ships?

Which is followed by:

So Cryptic, please hurry these canon fixes in so we all can enjoy a more realistic game experience! :cool:

Because degrading shields for the sole reason that you're flying within a certain range of your own team is undeniably canon. You want realism? A tightly balled defensive formation of ships isn't realistic enough for you that you have to add some magical power to make them weaker just because you like to facemash your dps buttons and nothing else?

*edit* these quotes are all from the same thread. This one.

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It's only magic if it is working against him. Shield degradation is in favor so it's the bee's knees!

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http://jordanhoffman.com/wp-content/uploads/operation_return_1.jpg

Operation Return says hi.:p

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http://jordanhoffman.com/wp-content/uploads/operation_return_1.jpg

Operation Return says hi.:p


Bad link.

Basically anything you can do to YOUR ships is OK, the only thing that should touch another's ship is weapons and Tractor Beams.

The rest is all magic.

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I "expect" an accurate portrayal of the Star trek IP where science ships do not fight and are much more fragile than the Escorts who would be with them on any mission.

A Cruiser should be able to sustain the portrayed by the shows massive amounts of damage and an Escort should be able to dish out said amount of damage.

Klingon ships are supposed to be less well kept up due to the culture's bias toward non warrior types.

This would not be balanced, but it would be accurate and not far from the current state of the game without the stretching to include mages and their spells.

You must admit the interface should be less button intensive. When I tell a BO to give me emergency power to shields for example, I expect him to do so until I tell him to stop. I also expect coms to shut the hell up until I acknowledge them rather than but in at stupid times to tell me something I already know.

Less MMO, more Trek!!

Soo... If people want to play PvP, they will have to pick up a combat ship, because Science have no place in combat? These ships should only be useful for ... Scientific exploration missions?

As for "massive amounts of damage"

I seem to remember every ship every portrayed in the shows tended to blow up consoles and throwing its crew around and such, even from a few shots..

As for "less well kept Klingon ships"

Do you really think a warrior race, doesnt keep its weapons and equipment in tip-top shape? Every warrior is responcible for the equipment, if they lose the oppotunity to win a glorious victory, because the engineer didnt keep the engines running smoothly, I can assure you that there would be hell to pay.

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As for "less well kept Klingon ships"

Do you really think a warrior race, doesnt keep its weapons and equipment in tip-top shape? Every warrior is responcible for the equipment, if they lose the oppotunity to win a glorious victory, because the engineer didnt keep the engines running smoothly, I can assure you that there would be hell to pay.

Indeed, I imagine Klingons do not suffer incompetence well. In fact i bet the engineers work faster than anyone elses for fear of getting spaced.

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Indeed, I imagine Klingons do not suffer incompetence well. In fact i bet the engineers work faster than anyone elses for fear of getting spaced.

KDF is not the Colonial Fleet. Incompetent people get challenged to combat and the winner gets or keeps his post.

Of course that leaves a chance that the highest ranking Engineer is just awesome with his Bat'Leth. Geordi LaForge or Scotty might not have gotten their chance to be "miracle workers"... But then,t hey weren't incompetent, so they probably would never be challenged. ;)

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I "expect" an accurate portrayal of the Star trek IP where science ships do not fight and are much more fragile than the Escorts who would be with them on any mission.Several of the "science ships". In the IP are cruisers though. The Miranda, Intrepid, and Nebula classes come to mind. Federation science ships in the IP fall into two categories, light general purpose cruisers which are either modified or specifically equipped for science, and specific science vessels which are virtually unarmed.

I always just figured that the "unarmed" science ships aren't playable, otherwise I want my Oberth class. The other sort of science ships like the Reliant and Voyager, aren't quite a match for heavy cruisers of their day, but they are competitive.

A Cruiser should be able to sustain the portrayed by the shows massive amounts of damage and an Escort should be able to dish out said amount of damage.Cruisers can take *insane* amounts of damage in STO. It either takes "magic" abilities or engineers and damage control parties who aren't incompetent (depending on how you want to view it), but cruisers take an extreme amount of firepower to put down.

In canon even the biggest ships don't last long when they have a skeleton crew, so that suggests that a big part of a cruisers survivability should be due to the efforts of her crew. In the game that means you need to be constantly using those BO powers to reenforce and repair the hull and shields. If you sit there like a lump you'll blow up fast, but a cruiser with a player who is awake should never be destroyed by a single ship, and should be difficult to take down in teams.

Klingon ships are supposed to be less well kept up due to the culture's bias toward non warrior types.{/quote]The Klingon Empire isn't as homogenous now as it once was. I'm pretty sure that Orion engineers who have spent centuries tuning engines for speed suddenly forget everything they know or gain an entirely different value system when they put on a Klingon badge.
[quote]This would not be balanced, but it would be accurate and not far from the current state of the game without the stretching to include mages and their spells.You've apparently never once watched an episode of Star Trek. Most of the tactical and engineering abilities are used pretty regularly int he series, and even many of the science abilities show up in episodes. The main thing that is different is that the science abilities would tend to show up once, rather than be used in every encounter.

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A game where you just shoot and heal yourself would be horribly boring, in my opinion.

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^ It turns out to be quite boring as a challenge match between Bob and I demonstrated.

However it becomes quite short when magic powers are allowed.

Maybe a happy medium could be reached?

The structurally challenged ship i refer to is the stolen BoP that creaks and groans and shudders when reaching what by Fed standards is medium warp.

The Klingon science classes would have to be warriors as well resulting in a hybrid that is not as good as a specialist in either class and resentful as well.

The Miranda, Intrepid, and Nebula do look like Cruisers, the ball on a stick design should be escorted.

This: "show up once, rather than be used in every encounter. " demonstrates my point.

I have watched all of Trek and the shows that really matter are TOS.

Captain's should NOT have to repeatedly tell a BO to do his job in the heat of battle!

BO powers should have an autofire setting!

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The Klingon science classes would have to be warriors as well resulting in a hybrid that is not as good as a specialist in either class and resentful as well.KDF science officers aren't all Klingons anymore. They don't have to be "warriors" any more than the Fed science officers (who generally aren't pushovers either). Science officers are to scientists as medics are to paramedics.
The Miranda, Intrepid, and Nebula do look like Cruisers, the ball on a stick design should be escorted.What's the look got to do with anything? In other Star Trek games the ball and stick design has been used for battleships and cruisers.

The point is that STO science ships aren't simple research vessels like the Oberth class, they are scout/science cruisers like the Intrepid class. Instead of science "vessel" call them science "cruiser" if that's your hang up. There are lots of cruisers from canon that are categorized as something else in STO.
This: "show up once, rather than be used in every encounter. " demonstrates my point.Then the realistic thing would be to give every science officer every science power, just with very long cooldowns. That isn't practical to manage, so instead we have officers who are really good at doing two or three things on a regular basis.
I have watched all of Trek and the shows that really matter are TOS.Except that it's all canon. And in many cases there are things included in the later series which were thought of for TOS but couldn't be included due to budget or the special effects of the day. If you go by TOS the the Federation had no ships other than a couple dozen heavy cruisers, because there was never a budget for other ship designs.
Captain's should NOT have to repeatedly tell a BO to do his job in the heat of battle!

BO powers should have an autofire setting!That would be crummy, because then you wouldn't be able to synchronize your own attacks.

Captain Kirk usually wasn't the one steering the Enterprise or firing phasers. For game purposes you take over much of what the bridge officers ought to be doing, because having to wrestle with wherever your AIs decide to steer and what they decide to shoot would be frustrating.

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BO powers should have an autofire setting!

*clicks RSP to autofire*

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^ LOL

Awesome!

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In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

Canon. to quote worf, "in war nothing is more honorable than winning!" meaning whatever dishonor you aquire by your tactics is negated by the honor of winning.

Tyken's Rift. NO, just NO. If you need to play a Mage go to WoW. If any faction in Star Trek had gravitational tech of this magnetude they would be using a gravity drive and not warp drive!

If so, the gravity drive would replace the impulse drive, as a gravity drive will not allow you to travel faster than you do when you compress/stretch space itself (called warp). unless you increse the gravity to a point when time itself is manipulated, and that is even more unlikely. It could also replace the warp CORE (like in a romulan ship) but that only feeds power to the warp drive, and antimatter seems to do that just as good as the romulans singularity power.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?

All the mentioned encounters were long in the past, I'm sure modern ships have "anti-mallware."

yup... that's why computer-viruses ceased to exist when the first anti-virus software was released... :p

i expect virus makers to stay one step ahead... even in the distant future.

I have watched all of Trek and the shows that really matter are TOS.

i politely disagree..

Captain's should NOT have to repeatedly tell a BO to do his job in the heat of battle!

BO powers should have an autofire setting!

well... if you want it to be THAT canon, you tac officer should do all your shooting and your helmsman all the flying.... you would be left with pointing out the target and waiting... now that sounds exciting...

however, I would like to have the ability to set the powers i use to spam on autofire.... the way i manage it now, i make a /bind that encompasses all those abilities, and spam that one button.

Basically anything you can do to YOUR ships is OK, the only thing that should touch another's ship is weapons and Tractor Beams.

The rest is all magic.

transphasic torps are magic, Voyager was wrong...
radiation is magic, Tchernobyl is an urban legend...
transmitted signals are magic, microwave ovens does not exist...
gravity is magic... Newton was wrong all along...

i see your point.... and ROFL

(I do agree that boarding parties should not be able to get through shields)

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yup... that's why computer-viruses ceased to exist when the first anti-virus software was released... :p

i expect virus makers to stay one step ahead... even in the distant future.


I can see Thaylie's point of view somewhat in the fact that this is a virus being written by one species most likely in thier native language code and being sent into the main computer of a foriegn species that most likely has thier own language software code - and yet it works everytime all the time without suffering from any differences in laugage code or even social differences in laugauge structure.

Does seem a little far-fetched.

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I can see Thaylie's point of view somewhat in the fact that this is a virus being written by one species most likely in thier native language code and being sent into the main computer of a foriegn species that most likely has thier own language software code - and yet it works everytime all the time without suffering from any differences in laugage code or even social differences in laugauge structure.

Does seem a little far-fetched.

It is. But then, the Universal Translator is far-fetched, too.

Maybe that's the real security hole on most ships in Starfleet and other fleets - the Universal Translator always wants to translate everything to optimize understanding.

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It is. But then, the Universal Translator is far-fetched, too.

Maybe that's the real security hole on most ships in Starfleet and other fleets - the Universal Translator always wants to translate everything to optimize understanding.

LOL-a mystery solved.:)

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This forums 10 character limit is lame.

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This forums 10 character limit is lame.

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Canon. to quote worf, "in war nothing is more honorable than winning!" meaning whatever dishonor you aquire by your tactics is negated by the honor of winning.

yup... that's why computer-viruses ceased to exist when the first anti-virus software was released... :p

i expect virus makers to stay one step ahead... even in the distant future.

i politely disagree..

well... if you want it to be THAT canon, you tac officer should do all your shooting and your helmsman all the flying.... you would be left with pointing out the target and waiting... now that sounds exciting...

however, I would like to have the ability to set the powers i use to spam on autofire.... the way i manage it now, i make a /bind that encompasses all those abilities, and spam that one button.


transphasic torps are magic, Voyager was wrong...
radiation is magic, Tchernobyl is an urban legend...
transmitted signals are magic, microwave ovens does not exist...
gravity is magic... Newton was wrong all along...

i see your point.... and ROFL

(I do agree that boarding parties should not be able to get through shields)

Tell that to your maker, I doubt he will be impressed. You are judged by every action you do. Sad to be a prison ***** in hell over an MMO, but at least you will have the Cryptic guys for company in your misery.

Gravity Drive provides instantaneous transport to anyplace anytime. It bends spacetime to make two points touch. Warp Drive is a tricycle in comparison.

This proves that some form of new control set is needed to make the game more manageable. Maybe a standard script command like all the successful PvPr's use.

Sorry, But:

Transphasic Torps are made up fairytale devices, the "timestop" torpedoes.
Radiation is real, like the stuff you are absorbing from your monitor this minute causing you to defend magic in STO.
That microwave you use for your meals is making you subtely sick, or so you can tell yourself to explain your lack of female companionship. My GF likes cooking for me.
Gravity is Gravity. Newton just noticed it, he didn't invent it, just like the gravity effects in this game occurred and were observed in the shows, but can not be manipulated on demand like the magic in this game.

ROFL, this saying disturbs my cool on some level. You should probably not say that in public, if you actually go there.

Sorry for the triple, I have not mastered the typing within quoted posts yet. Maybe a delete option would be nice.

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Tell that to your maker, I doubt he will be impressed. You are judged by every action you do. Sad to be a prison ***** in hell over an MMO, but at least you will have the Cryptic guys for company in your misery.

What are you talking about?! :confused:

Transphasic Torps are made up fairytale devices, the "timestop" torpedoes.
Radiation is real, like the stuff you are absorbing from your monitor this minute causing you to defend magic in STO.
That microwave you use for your meals is making you subtely sick, or so you can tell yourself to explain your lack of female companionship. My GF likes cooking for me.
Gravity is Gravity. Newton just noticed it, he didn't invent it, just like the gravity effects in this game occurred and were observed in the shows, but can not be manipulated on demand like the magic in this game.

Hate to break it to you, but just about everything in Star Trek is "made-up fairy tale devices". That's why it's called science fiction...

Holding up a hokey TV show set 200+ years in the future as a justification for things that shouldn't exist in a computer game based on the same setting is...silly, to say the least.

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^ As is the concept of the game itself, but we have to start somewhere.

The fact that people are swallowing the impossible events in STO so that cryptic can lazily reuse the same lame MMO engine is what bothers me.

We have sci ships because they had to have mages somehow. The sci ships/mages need magic powers so lets use impossible stuff like guided black holes.

Totally ruins the immersion.. unless you are a sci ship captain, then you are loving it.

Maybe Cryptic will get someone who likes Escorts to work for them someday and they will have powers that easily hurt the sci ships, then I will be loving it.

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Tell that to your maker, I doubt he will be impressed. You are judged by every action you do. Sad to be a prison ***** in hell over an MMO, but at least you will have the Cryptic guys for company in your misery.

Someone found their Parent's liquor cabinet!!!

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It's MY liquor cabinet!

Parents are long gone.

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Body shots!!!!:) he said with as light hint sensami..... in the air.

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I can see Thaylie's point of view somewhat in the fact that this is a virus being written by one species most likely in thier native language code and being sent into the main computer of a foriegn species that most likely has thier own language software code - and yet it works everytime all the time without suffering from any differences in laugage code or even social differences in laugauge structure.

Does seem a little far-fetched.

I am not a programmer and software code is beyond me, but I was always under the impression that software code is math at it's core. It that point knowing a cultures base numbers is all that is needed and even if you don't know a cultures base numbers it can usually be figured out, we know the Maya preferred units of 12 for instance and the Mayan culture has been gone a long time. Fraction based systems are almost always have a base of 8, (easier to divide fractions by 8), while decimal based systems like the metric system are base 10.

Couldn't it be possible for it to be easier to make a mess of software if you do not know what you are doing when you get into the base code? How many tech support issues were created by Win 98 users when they erased a dll in ignorance?

Imagine that for a moment... Aboard the enemy ship Chief science officer Xaerant has finally gotten into the source code for the Enterprise. In ignorance they delete random sentences of code from the Enterprises computers.

Aboard the Enterprise, "What do you mean they are off line for an indefinite period of time Scotty? That is not how we play this game of ours. I ask you a time frame, you tell me an exaggerated guesstimate, and I holler back that you have an hour less than that."

"I know that captain. But whole lines of code are missing from the life support computers. Environmental's heat pumps have gone insane, the oxygen scrubbers don't know when to work, and the recirculation fans are getting no power. Life support is down till we can get it's OS to do a repair install. I'll send ensign Holloway to the ship's library to retrieve the installation chips, but being that he is a red-shirt he may not make it captain."

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Tell that to your maker, I doubt he will be impressed. You are judged by every action you do. Sad to be a prison ***** in hell over an MMO, but at least you will have the Cryptic guys for company in your misery.

????? is this what i think it is? did you yust condemn me, the klinks and the devs to an eternity in hell? if i knew you had such power i might have held back on the sarcasm... or... probably not...

Transphasic Torps are made up fairytale devices, the "timestop" torpedoes.

So you don't like magic, you wat it to be canon, and you think canon is magic...

Radiation is real, like the stuff you are absorbing from your monitor this minute causing you to defend magic in STO.

would shields protect me? :D

That microwave you use for your meals is making you subtely sick, or so you can tell yourself to explain your lack of female companionship. My GF likes cooking for me.

i don't even know how to start responding to this... i'm tempted by irony, but i'm afraid it would be wasted...

Gravity is Gravity. Newton just noticed it, he didn't invent it, just like the gravity effects in this game occurred and were observed in the shows, but can not be manipulated on demand like the magic in this game.

Well, in the TV series they do... oh, but i forgot your love/hate relationship to things being canon...

ROFL, this saying disturbs my cool on some level. You should probably not say that in public, if you actually go there.

not sure what saying you are refering to... my ROFL, or the one about boarding parties... I really don't regret either...

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I don't have the power to condemn you, you are doing just fine on your own by supporting dishonor however.

Only things like targetable black holes and magic powers that let you drop peoples shields or ****** their engines or shut off their weapons, all dishonorably, I don't approve of.

They never produce Tyken's Rifts in the TV series. They encounter it, but don't control it to the point they can have one pop up like a genii from a bottle on command.

ROFL and many acronyms used on the web are very uncool, trust me.

The microwave line came from a girl visiting me. It doesn't have to make sense as long as I get some.

We appear to be very different people. You have inadvertently helped me a lot with this girl and for that I am thankful.

I am only half geek so your knowledge of Trek may be greater than mine. I am just trying to make this game cool, which may be impossible considering the subject matter and those stereotypically associated with it. The ironic thing is that you oppose my opinions while supporting or ignoring the resident whiner base that always gets it's way with the devs. Maybe letting a few of my ideas through unmolested might be a good thing if you would be so enlightened.

Magic Powers that suddenly do impossible things should be avoided.

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I don't have the power to condemn you, you are doing just fine on your own by supporting dishonor however.

Only things like targetable black holes and magic powers that let you drop peoples shields or ****** their engines or shut off their weapons, all dishonorably, I don't approve of.
It's okay. Don't use them.

But it's pretty standard Federation fare to try to disable enemies engines or weapons ot avoid having to kill them outright and to minimize your own losses.

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I don't have the power to condemn you, you are doing just fine on your own by supporting dishonor however.

Only things like targetable black holes and magic powers that let you drop peoples shields or ****** their engines or shut off their weapons, all dishonorably, I don't approve of.

They never produce Tyken's Rifts in the TV series. They encounter it, but don't control it to the point they can have one pop up like a genii from a bottle on command.

ROFL and many acronyms used on the web are very uncool, trust me.

The microwave line came from a girl visiting me. It doesn't have to make sense as long as I get some.

We appear to be very different people. You have inadvertently helped me a lot with this girl and for that I am thankful.

I am only half geek so your knowledge of Trek may be greater than mine. I am just trying to make this game cool, which may be impossible considering the subject matter and those stereotypically associated with it. The ironic thing is that you oppose my opinions while supporting or ignoring the resident whiner base that always gets it's way with the devs. Maybe letting a few of my ideas through unmolested might be a good thing if you would be so enlightened.

Magic Powers that suddenly do impossible things should be avoided.

Laws of Prediction

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

-Arthur C. Clarke

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Laws of Prediction

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

-Arthur C. Clarke

This right here is sweet.

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You don't like the Klinks because they have cheater ships and attack you from behind. You don't like Feds because they ball up and defend themselves. What exactly does your ideal opponent do? Self destruct?

LOL....................

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Does this scenario seem familiar?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEhd5M9uHho

Neat. Good way to make a point.

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I have and someone QQ'd that I was BAD for the game.

Sadly I am a Fed in a TER, not a Klingon.

I have an explanation for my various hates in this game. Let's see if you can understand:

In my world (the real one) a fights a fight.

So someone in a pub or school or wherever has called you out!

In the Fedball scenario, you go outside and he has 11 buddies close by him. Whenever you attack him, 6 of them pile on you. DISHONORABLE!

In the cheatboat ( sci ship all holds, codenamed "pedo") scenario, you go outside and his bros hold you down while he pounds you. DISHONORABLE!!

You say that whatever works is alright, I just have a problem with the dishonor.

I will be quiet on the subject from now on, but remember your dishonor as you commit dishonorable acts and think how Trek you really are.

You want a fair fight join a fleet. It's called Starfleet Command. Fleets with PvP tend to be organize. They use voice chat. They play together and support each other. This is not "DISHONORABLE". This is the way wars are fought. Navy battle group has a carrier, cruisers, destroyers, and other support ships. This is how Cryptic envision combat. Oh by the way team sports are also played this way.

Just because you don't play well with others don't blame those that do.

PVP queues now have a challenge feature. You can call someone out and be a bully there.

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Laws of Prediction

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.

2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

-Arthur C. Clarke

Lovin it!

And may i add:

"(...)Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing. "

-Muhammad Ali

From TNG episode "who watches the watchers"

PICARD: (...) she cannot kill a hornbuck at a great distance. You can. You have a power she lacks.
NURIA: Only because I have a bow.
PICARD: She's never seen a bow. It doesn't exist in her world. To you, it's a simple tool. To her, it's magic.

Now, Thlaylie, do you feel capable of predicting what will be impossible in the future? What we would call magic today?

(please refrain from dragging your lovelife into the conversation, it has no bearing on the subject :) )

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Tyken's Rift. NO, just NO. If you need to play a Mage go to WoW. If any faction in Star Trek had gravitational tech of this magnetude they would be using a gravity drive and not warp drive!

In Quantum Mechanics for every field there is a corresponding particle. That means that if there is a gravitational field there should be gravitons and even gravitinos, (gravity sub-particles). I believe the idea behind skills like Tyken's Rift is that gravitons or gravitinos can be condensed from the space around the ship to produce the the area of increased gravitational effect. Just because you cannot imagine it does not mean that an idea is impossible.

If it was possible to continually project a anomaly like Tyken's rift in front of the ship then yes they would have a gravity lens drive. As a general rule a new power source is a weapon before it is a source of propulsion. Tyken's Rift could be the first baby step toward that technology. I should shut up now I have just given away far too much good material.

Consider that the graviton is a boson and experiments to find bosons are being performed at the LHC, (Large Hadron Collider) on the Franco-Swiss border. There is a reason that so much money was invested in the LHC, (the worlds largest machine), and that is because there is allot of evidence to support the presence of sub-particle bosons like gravitons.

You say no. I ask why confine your imagination inside a limited box?

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Tell that to your maker, I doubt he will be impressed. You are judged by every action you do. Sad to be a prison ***** in hell over an MMO, but at least you will have the Cryptic guys for company in your misery.

Gravity Drive provides instantaneous transport to anyplace anytime. It bends spacetime to make two points touch. Warp Drive is a tricycle in comparison.

.
Which science fiction universe's FTL technology are you comparing to Startrek's FTL technology again?

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Which science fiction universe's FTL technology are you comparing to Startrek's FTL technology again?

Hey, Solo used the idea of bending space (if unintentionally).. He did the Kessel run in less than 5 ParSecs (which is a distance unit btw) ... Ofcourse he had help from a cluster of black holes.


But then, SW tech is lightyears ahead :D

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Hey, Solo used the idea of bending space (if unintentionally).. He did the Kessel run in less than 5 ParSecs (which is a distance unit btw) ... Ofcourse he had help from a cluster of black holes.


But then, SW tech is lightyears ahead :D

I am just saying. A "Gravity Drive" is not exactly an established and well-defined scientific concept.

Lawrence M. Krauss has written a book about the "Physics of Startrek" and how some technologies could work using current theories and speculation.

What he described as how the "Warp Drive" could work could as well be called "Gravity Drive". It involves "warping" space, which might allow ignoring the local speed limit set by the speed of light - the ship is locally still moving at sublight speeds, but the space around it is moving faster than light on a global scale.
Such a drive would use gravity to create the necessary moving "spacetime bubble", but it requires a few exotic elements, like the ability to create "negative mass" or negative energy. (Gravity as observed by us is always an attractive force, never a repelling force like the electric force. But maybe with a negative mass - which is not to be confused with anti-matter, anti-matter with mass still exerts an attractive force of gravity - we could achieve that. Maybe. Hypothetically. If we ever find any evidence for its existence and the abilty to create it, too.)

That said, the description in the Technical Manual of the Enterprise talks about stuff like "subspace" and so on and gives no indication that that's how Warp would work - it rather uses its own concept (aforementioned subspace). One could try to claim that the spacetime bubble we talk about is "subspace" (as a subsection of space), but other things that are going on with subspace (like the subspace rift that causes the galactic Warp 5 speed limit) don't make sense with that.

What Thlaylie actually sounded more like a worm hole. This requires spacetime to be warped in a specific way so that in a higher-dimensional space that we can't perceive directly two points in space are very close, but since we are limited ot the regular 3D plane in movement, we couldn't travel that direction - unless we could created a wormhole. As it happens, all current theories and speculations indicate that wormholes do _also_ need negative energy or negative mass to stabilize them long enough to fly through them - so if you got Warp Drives, you also got the capability for Wormholes.

Though it is certainly possible that one variant is easier then the other, explaining why both actually exists in Startrek, but the Federation is still "limited" to warp travel. If we pretend for a moment all that subspace stuff could be made consistent with the theory on the gravity drive or space folding or however we want to call it.

And in either case, even if we can beat light in terms of speed, we will also have the technology to travel through time. Which raises the problem of that we either don't have free will and traveling in time can never create paradoxa, or we might still have free will but it's actually impossible to make any of the time travel tech to work, and by extend also any of that FTL travel.

At least Startrek is consistent with science in there - it is definitely possible to travel through time in Startrek, and it is possible to travel faster than light. Probably the only inconsistence is that if you manage to do the FTL stuff, the time travel stuff might come just with the territory and you don't need any special tricks for time travel.

[/Nerdy Wall of Text]

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I am just saying. A "Gravity Drive" is not exactly an established and well-defined scientific concept.

Lawrence M. Krauss has written a book about the "Physics of Startrek" and how some technologies could work using current theories and speculation.

What he described as how the "Warp Drive" could work could as well be called "Gravity Drive". It involves "warping" space, which might allow ignoring the local speed limit set by the speed of light - the ship is locally still moving at sublight speeds, but the space around it is moving faster than light on a global scale.
Such a drive would use gravity to create the necessary moving "spacetime bubble", but it requires a few exotic elements, like the ability to create "negative mass" or negative energy. (Gravity as observed by us is always an attractive force, never a repelling force like the electric force. But maybe with a negative mass - which is not to be confused with anti-matter, anti-matter with mass still exerts an attractive force of gravity - we could achieve that. Maybe. Hypothetically. If we ever find any evidence for its existence and the abilty to create it, too.)

That said, the description in the Technical Manual of the Enterprise talks about stuff like "subspace" and so on and gives no indication that that's how Warp would work - it rather uses its own concept (aforementioned subspace). One could try to claim that the spacetime bubble we talk about is "subspace" (as a subsection of space), but other things that are going on with subspace (like the subspace rift that causes the galactic Warp 5 speed limit) don't make sense with that.

What Thlaylie actually sounded more like a worm hole. This requires spacetime to be warped in a specific way so that in a higher-dimensional space that we can't perceive directly two points in space are very close, but since we are limited ot the regular 3D plane in movement, we couldn't travel that direction - unless we could created a wormhole. As it happens, all current theories and speculations indicate that wormholes do _also_ need negative energy or negative mass to stabilize them long enough to fly through them - so if you got Warp Drives, you also got the capability for Wormholes.

Though it is certainly possible that one variant is easier then the other, explaining why both actually exists in Startrek, but the Federation is still "limited" to warp travel. If we pretend for a moment all that subspace stuff could be made consistent with the theory on the gravity drive or space folding or however we want to call it.

And in either case, even if we can beat light in terms of speed, we will also have the technology to travel through time. Which raises the problem of that we either don't have free will and traveling in time can never create paradoxa, or we might still have free will but it's actually impossible to make any of the time travel tech to work, and by extend also any of that FTL travel.

At least Startrek is consistent with science in there - it is definitely possible to travel through time in Startrek, and it is possible to travel faster than light. Probably the only inconsistence is that if you manage to do the FTL stuff, the time travel stuff might come just with the territory and you don't need any special tricks for time travel.

[/Nerdy Wall of Text]

Or the warpdrive is step one of a timetravel device.. With time it gets refined and ultimately timetravel is a reality (as shown multiple times in the series) We see timetravel in the series/movies several times, but those are always the result of either an anomaly or outside forces.

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Or the warpdrive is step one of a timetravel device.. With time it gets refined and ultimately timetravel is a reality (as shown multiple times in the series) We see timetravel in the series/movies several times, but those are always the result of either an anomaly or outside forces.
I think the crucial thing with all the FTL talk is that time travel doesn't require real "refinement" once you get FTL. It just comes with it. Kinda like when you can build a rocket to fly to the moon, you can also build a rocket that can drop a warhead someplace on earth.

Startrek certainly says that time travel is tech coming sometime after FTL tech. But that's not what our current understanding of physics tells us. FTL inherently brings us time travel.

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I think the crucial thing with all the FTL talk is that time travel doesn't require real "refinement" once you get FTL. It just comes with it. Kinda like when you can build a rocket to fly to the moon, you can also build a rocket that can drop a warhead someplace on earth.

Startrek certainly says that time travel is tech coming sometime after FTL tech. But that's not what our current understanding of physics tells us. FTL inherently brings us time travel.

I've said it in other threads so i have to QFT Mustrum here.

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Imagine that for a moment... Aboard the enemy ship Chief science officer Xaerant has finally gotten into the source code for the Enterprise. In ignorance they delete random sentences of code from the Enterprises computers.

Aboard the Enterprise, "What do you mean they are off line for an indefinite period of time Scotty? That is not how we play this game of ours. I ask you a time frame, you tell me an exaggerated guesstimate, and I holler back that you have an hour less than that."

"I know that captain. But whole lines of code are missing from the life support computers. Environmental's heat pumps have gone insane, the oxygen scrubbers don't know when to work, and the recirculation fans are getting no power. Life support is down till we can get it's OS to do a repair install. I'll send ensign Holloway to the ship's library to retrieve the installation chips, but being that he is a red-shirt he may not make it captain."

Possibly true on the math being universal language and all but that assumption is from our own point of reference and doesn't take into account the alien way of thinking some races have. What if said race had no concept of zero, or is a hive based society with no concept of individuality except being linked thru a monarchy figure?
I have no problems with Viral matrix as a power , I just don't see how it can be used so easily among alien species who have differing concepts of math and programming and thus could see the point being made by Thaylie.
I much as I liked the movie "independence Day" the chances of Jeff Goldblum character hacking an alien software language on the fly is a little far-fetched to me without at least a base understanding of thier code.

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Oh my Geeksplosion!

I am referring to the tech of the Cool universe: Unreachable by most of those here, especially those who disagree with me!

I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get it, you won't get it.

So, Carry On!

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I think the crucial thing with all the FTL talk is that time travel doesn't require real "refinement" once you get FTL. It just comes with it. Kinda like when you can build a rocket to fly to the moon, you can also build a rocket that can drop a warhead someplace on earth.

Startrek certainly says that time travel is tech coming sometime after FTL tech. But that's not what our current understanding of physics tells us. FTL inherently brings us time travel.

I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.

But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it :)

Would also explain why Starfleet crew doesnt age faster than the other persons that doesnt travel at warp frequently (ie: Sisko, Leeta and Quark.. At the end of season 7, theyve all aged 7 years, yet the periods they travel at warp is very different (Sisko often, Quark a few times and Leeta never (that I can remember)

Additionally, while lightspeed travel will explain how you can travel back in time (by breaking the barrier) it doesnt come with a plausible explanation on how to get *back*.. You can accelerate the passage of time around you, by traveling at high speed, but how would you decelerate (or reverse the process)?

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My Canon understanding appears better than those who try to justify the current system to keep it.

How are you getting the signals to virus someone else's ship into their ship?

All the mentioned encounters were long in the past, I'm sure modern ships have "anti-mallware."

ANY gravity technology of that level invalidates the use of warp drive.

Cloaking using the deflector grid.. You are correct. Forgive me I am only half Trekkie. However if I have been pounding the aft arc of a ship and am damaging the hull, Battlecloaking should be effected as cloaks have been demonstrated to be fragile. I'd say less than 50% Hull and you're SOL!

I watch a good bit of Star Trek, but I can't say I can give episode numbers. The D'derix class ship at least had an artificial black hole for a warp core as I recall. Look at memory alpha for confirmation.

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Oh my Geeksplosion!

I am referring to the tech of the Cool universe: Unreachable by most of those here, especially those who disagree with me!

I have come to the conclusion that if you don't get it, you won't get it.

So, Carry On!

You do realize the conversation has moved on without you right?

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I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.

But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it :)

Would also explain why Starfleet crew doesnt age faster than the other persons that doesnt travel at warp frequently (ie: Sisko, Leeta and Quark.. At the end of season 7, theyve all aged 7 years, yet the periods they travel at warp is very different (Sisko often, Quark a few times and Leeta never (that I can remember)

Additionally, while lightspeed travel will explain how you can travel back in time (by breaking the barrier) it doesnt come with a plausible explanation on how to get *back*.. You can accelerate the passage of time around you, by traveling at high speed, but how would you decelerate (or reverse the process)?

Exponential asymptotes are fun.

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You do realize the conversation has moved on without you right?


That's why I posted that.

Carry On!

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I get what you are saying.. As we get closer to the speed of light, time goes slower for us.. Past lightspeed, it reverses.

That's not exactly how it works, IIRC. But it has been quite some time when I read on it.


But..

What if we are not physically present in the "normal" time while at warp, what if its some sort of alternate reality, connected to our reality, but not quite.. You know what I mean, breaking the speed of light, without actually doing it :)

Stuff like wormholes do allow "breaking the speed of light" without actually doing it. You don't accelerate or anything - you just fly through the wormhole at whatever comfortable speed you like (maybe you even walk), and you're at a new place. But such a wormhole would still also bring time travel - it seems all you have to do is move one end of the wormhole around.

Now, stuff like alternate parallel realities might change that. But then, it's made up - we don't have any model for it. It's kinda like saying, "but what if he had a way of FTL travel that doesn't give us time travel! Wouldn't we then have FTL travel and no time travel?" But there is nothing in the science as we know it that would suggest how that exists. All methods of FTL travel we could come up with imply time travel, too. (And all of them contain elements that our theories do not forbid and still allow, but we have no evidence of their existence so far - that part is always pure speculation - but it has a starting point in existing science. Parallel universes or dimensions that somehow allow FTL like you describe have no such starting points - for now at least.)

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That's not exactly how it works, IIRC. But it has been quite some time when I read on it.


Stuff like wormholes do allow "breaking the speed of light" without actually doing it. You don't accelerate or anything - you just fly through the wormhole at whatever comfortable speed you like (maybe you even walk), and you're at a new place. But such a wormhole would still also bring time travel - it seems all you have to do is move one end of the wormhole around.

Now, stuff like alternate parallel realities might change that. But then, it's made up - we don't have any model for it. It's kinda like saying, "but what if he had a way of FTL travel that doesn't give us time travel! Wouldn't we then have FTL travel and no time travel?" But there is nothing in the science as we know it that would suggest how that exists. All methods of FTL travel we could come up with imply time travel, too. (And all of them contain elements that our theories do not forbid and still allow, but we have no evidence of their existence so far - that part is always pure speculation - but it has a starting point in existing science. Parallel universes or dimensions that somehow allow FTL like you describe have no such starting points - for now at least.)

I guess it all boils down to this: We can theorize all we like about what happens.. Timetravel might be possible, or it might not.. In the end, we dont know.

"The difference between what the least learned and the most learned person know, is inexpressibly trivial next to that, which is unknown."

-Albert Einstein

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That's why I posted that.

Carry On!

That made me laugh. Thank you for being a good sport.