Friendly FYI

[Archived Post]

Just a heads up, as I think some players are getting confused and thinking the KDF is selfish, I want you to think about three simple things.

We need each other equally, so there is no need to belittle one faction or the other, if we didn't then this wouldn't be an MMO. Not to mention with UGC, I have no doubt some of the more active KDF players will be contributing tons, so look at the possible benefits.
If you ever want to see another faction, support the KDF now to get it up and running. As it stands, the template they come up with for the KDF will most likely be applied to whichever faction is next. Romulans without scanners? Good luck.
This game can be great in a year, but if we bleed more players, I doubt it will be around. We need to work to keep ALL players from ALL factions.

[Archived Post]

Just a heads up, as I think some players are getting confused and thinking the KDF is selfish, I want you to think about three simple things.

We need each other equally, so there is no need to belittle one faction or the other, if we didn't then this wouldn't be an MMO. Not to mention with UGC, I have no doubt some of the more active KDF players will be contributing tons, so look at the possible benefits.
If you ever want to see another faction, support the KDF now to get it up and running. As it stands, the template they come up with for the KDF will most likely be applied to whichever faction is next. Romulans without scanners? Good luck.
This game can be great in a year, but if we bleed more players, I doubt it will be around. We need to work to keep ALL players from ALL factions.


I find it annoying when Klingon supporters jump into a thread that has nothing to do with the KDF and says something like:

"fed bears need to stop crying and we want our ships now"

or

"we were promised X thing and we dont have it yet, guess the devs hate the Klingons"

or

"they get 3 screenshots and we get 1?!?!? cryptic hates the KDF"

or

"i just feel betrayed by the devs, i never get anything i want when i want it"

They never add anything to the discussion and the thread ends up getting closed because of the bickering.

[Archived Post]

I find it annoying when Klingon supporters jump into a thread that has nothing to do with the KDF and says something like:

"fed bears need to stop crying and we want our ships now"

or

"we were promised X thing and we dont have it yet, guess the devs hate the Klingons"

or

"they get 3 screenshots and we get 1?!?!? cryptic hates the KDF"

or

"i just feel betrayed by the devs, i never get anything i want when i want it"

They never add anything to the discussion and the thread ends up getting closed because of the bickering.

Your point has been noted and may I remind you to try reading some of KDF posts where Fed players do the same thing. But this is about moving forward so I can agree if you agree.

[Archived Post]

i recently left ****, where the 2-party system was required to have balance, as PvP is the only sort of endgame there is.

over here though...

it doesn't seem like that many people play KDF. I'd say (number off the top of my head, if anyone has concrete data let me know) that only 10-25% of the playerbase play their KDF toon regularly, and far less that that solely.

It doesnt make sense to develop content for a faction that isn't going to get used near as often as the feds.

Should they have never said there were gonna be klinks in the first place? Probably. I bet in hindisght they're kicking themselves.

I'm all for the development of content which can be used by both factions.

[Archived Post]

i recently left ****, where the 2-party system was required to have balance, as PvP is the only sort of endgame there is.

over here though...

it doesn't seem like that many people play KDF. I'd say (number off the top of my head, if anyone has concrete data let me know) that only 10-25% of the playerbase play their KDF toon regularly, and far less that that solely.

It doesnt make sense to develop content for a faction that isn't going to get used near as often as the feds.

Should they have never said there were gonna be klinks in the first place? Probably. I bet in hindisght they're kicking themselves.

I'm all for the development of content which can be used by both factions.

Actually, you might want to read up on the KDF, or talk to the tons of guilds that didn't get this game because of the crappy development for them. If they fixed them up, they would get more players.... I notice how improving the Feds hasn't brought in more players... time to work on new customers from another angle.

[Archived Post]

Your point has been noted and may I remind you to try reading some of KDF posts where Fed players do the same thing. But this is about moving forward so I can agree if you agree.

I agree with you completely.

I think that besides largely a few instigators on both sides the reason there has been such an upsurge in this s because of what I posted. People were getting annoyed by it and its why many thread have been closed lately. All it takes is a dumb comment like "fed bear needs to shut up" or "whiny klink never gets his way" to completely derail a thread.

[Archived Post]

i'm pretty sure your market data is flawed. most people think of 'enterprise', not 'BoP' when they hear Star Trek.

you can't draw new people into a game that got bad reviews at launch with a faction odds are they've never heard of

it could definately be argued since there are far more fed players, polishing the fed side would encourage those players to refer others.

edit: most people probably think of 'Kirk', not... lex luther or whoever kdf has.

[Archived Post]

i'm pretty sure your market data is flawed. most people think of 'enterprise', not 'BoP' when they hear Star Trek.

you can't draw new people into a game that got bad reviews at launch with a faction odds are they've never heard of

it could definately be argued since there are far more fed players, polishing the fed side would encourage those players to refer others.

edit: most people probably think of 'Kirk', not... lex luther or whoever kdf has.

Ummm I know of several guilds and groups of people who liked the mechanics, but didn't play due to the lack of Klingon at Open Beta time... a lot of them are still waiting to see Cryptic make it work and could be new customers, yet.... not with the way this has been going.

[Archived Post]

bringing in a few more guilds and groups of people

isn't worth

the massive development manhours

its gonna take to get KDF up to par.

you have your opinion that KDF needs to be fixed. I have my opinion that it isn't worth it.

[Archived Post]

Part ofthe reason for the imbalance of players (not the only reason but a part of it, feds will always have more people no matter what gets done) is that there is only about 20%(this is approximate and by no means mathamatically accurate) as much content KDF side as there is fed side, appart from the pvp which is getting harder to get a match going (at the mid range levels anyway) there are a handfull of story missions and the explore grinds.at least till you get to RA3 and can do all the asame stuff in borg space that feds can, if of course you can ge a group forthe STF missions with the low number of players that actually get to the high levels in the KDF.

Faction nuetral stuff is a good direction to go in but the gap between the fed side and the KDF needs to skink in the mean time. Those of us that understand how this sort of thing works know that it won't be done overnight. before season 2 all but 2-3 things that the KDF got were copy'n'paste with some tweaking from the fed side, season 2 launches and KDF get 8 missions and 1 ship, feds get a whole new game mechanic and 3 ships. Many klingons are simply upset that the gap is getting larger rather than shrinking.

Anyway I'm sure all this has been said before by many different people and probably with mny different tones.

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is the KDF side won't attract more people without more content, it likely won't keep people very long even if they are interested unless they want to play KDF and people that only want to play KDF, well tey're walking out the door and thats not good for either side of the game.

[Archived Post]

bringing in a few more guilds and groups of people

isn't worth

the massive development manhours

its gonna take to get KDF up to par.

you have your opinion that KDF needs to be fixed. I have my opinion that it isn't worth it.

If KDF isn't fixed, this game is dead in 10 months. SWTOR will take everyone else, leave you with a shell of a playerbase. Forget Romulans, think anyone is going to fall for an expansion that is all about Romulans? Not a chance with Klingons in the state they are.

Honestly, nobody else is going to be joining this game for the Federation, there just isn't enough unique gameplay for that. All the players who were Star Trek super fans came and went in the first month, now we are left with the diehards, those who like it, and those who are holding on by a thread hoping it improves.

[Archived Post]

I suppose the point I'm trying to make is the KDF side won't attract more people without more content, it likely won't keep people very long even if they are interested unless they want to play KDF and people that only want to play KDF, well tey're walking out the door and thats not good for either side of the game.

i agree that players leaving is always bad.

i believe its even worse to shaft 80% of the players by taking their funding and dumping it into a faction that rarely gets played.

i don't understand why all those KDF people who want missions so bad... why dont they just play as Federation?

its like you're choosing to be apart of the neglected minority, and then demand change. it'd be a whole lot easier for you to roll a fed toon than for them to develop boogles of content just to make a handful of people happy.

[Archived Post]

If KDF isn't fixed, this game is dead in 10 months. SWTOR will take everyone else, leave you with a shell of a playerbase. Forget Romulans, think anyone is going to fall for an expansion that is all about Romulans? Not a chance with Klingons in the state they are.

Honestly, nobody else is going to be joining this game for the Federation, there just isn't enough unique gameplay for that. All the players who were Star Trek super fans came and went in the first month, now we are left with the diehards, those who like it, and those who are holding on by a thread hoping it improves.


predicting a doomsday if KDF isn't fixed is a shallow tactic.

edit: I can look back in previous threads (around launch)

that said the game would be dead in 3 months

[Archived Post]

i agree that players leaving is always bad.

i believe its even worse to shaft 80% of the players by taking their funding and dumping it into a faction that rarely gets played.

i don't understand why all those KDF people who want missions so bad... why dont they just play as Federation?

its like you're choosing to be apart of the neglected minority, and then demand change. it'd be a whole lot easier for you to roll a fed toon than for them to develop boogles of content just to make a handful of people happy.

See, you just pointed out to me that you are missing the KEY KDF arguement....

Who said we want missions? We aren't even arguing for that (some would like more PvE, yes), the major focus is on the BASICS. Ships variants, clothing options, refits, and maybe a scanner that works.... We haven't even really hit the head on things beyond the basics yet....

Missions and PvE will be satisfied by the UGC in the future, however, if you don't have the basics, it won't matter.

[Archived Post]

Faction nuetral stuff is a good direction to go in but the gap between the fed side and the KDF needs to skink in the mean time. Those of us that understand how this sort of thing works know that it won't be done overnight. before season 2 all but 2-3 things that the KDF got were copy'n'paste with some tweaking from the fed side, season 2 launches and KDF get 8 missions and 1 ship, feds get a whole new game mechanic and 3 ships. Many klingons are simply upset that the gap is getting larger rather than shrinking.
While I agree that the Klingons have significant gaps, the gap is decreasing as expressed as percentage.

For example if feds have 64 missions and klingons have 1 (which is fairly close to launch) and next year Feds have 200 and Klingons have 137, that's a statistically sizable number (even if all those missions added are cross-faction).

I doubt anyone believes there will ever be the same number of KDF missions as FED missions will one-day-be. I think the desire is to have an equivalent amount of content to player as federation players (with at least some emphasis on unique content).

[Archived Post]

You read too much into my post

replace <missions> with <any of the other things you listed>

With Jack and Dstahls comments, it seems they only get funding if their numbers are good. The funding that it's going to take to get KDF where you want it doesn't justify the numbers that investment will bring in.

'Oh, but more people would play KDF if it had <insert things you listed here>'

Maybe. MAYBE. Maybe KDF activity would go up... 5-10%? But out of that 5-10%, how many of those would be from current subs from people already playing their fed toons.

STO's hook is the federation. KDF is after the fact.

If cryptic wants better numbers, they gotta focus on the hook.

edit: I still support cross-faction missions.

[Archived Post]

You read too much into my post

replace <missions> with <any of the other things you listed>

With Jack and Dstahls comments, it seems they only get funding if their numbers are good. The funding that it's going to take to get KDF where you want it doesn't justify the numbers that investment will bring in.

'Oh, but more people would play KDF if it had <insert things you listed here>'

Maybe. MAYBE. Maybe KDF activity would go up... 5-10%? But out of that 5-10%, how many of those would be from current subs from people already playing their fed toons.

STO's hook is the federation. KDF is after the fact.

If cryptic wants better numbers, they gotta focus on the hook.

A shrewd -even Machiavellian- observation but accurate. This is why faction neutral content is one of the best wagers Cryptic can make going forward (and I'm surprised more wasn't done earlier to hook it up).

[Archived Post]

i agree that players leaving is always bad.

i believe its even worse to shaft 80% of the players by taking their funding and dumping it into a faction that rarely gets played.

i don't understand why all those KDF people who want missions so bad... why dont they just play as Federation?

its like you're choosing to be apart of the neglected minority, and then demand change. it'd be a whole lot easier for you to roll a fed toon than for them to develop boogles of content just to make a handful of people happy.

I've actually got as many fed chracters as I do KDF myself, hell my only character at tier 5 is a fed. Believe it or not I'm not one of those that think all content fed side should he halted while the KDF is brought up to speed, but keeping future releases relatively even between the two side and doing a little here or there to boost the klingons a bit closer to being equal rather than widening the gap even more.

KDF is getting ships sometime in the next 6 weeks (so we are told) and Gorn are due to get their uniform updates anyday now as far as I know. the weekly episodes will help give klingons something to do but they probably won't hold players that have already gone through the missions fed side.

I'm starting to ramble now and my dinner is getting cold, might pick this back up when I finish eating but chances are I won't back and forth conversations fro two differing view points rarely get anyone anywhere after all.

[Archived Post]

I have a Fed VA1 and a KDF LG1 why do I want to play my Klingon over my Fed? I never wanted a FED to begin with I always wanted to fly as a KLINGON in a Bird of Prey. The Federation mamby pamby way of doing things never did much for me and there ships do even less. Only ship I ever liked at all was the Defiant.

Then add on the Fact that Fed side is like visiting a Kinder garden class room. People can't even be bothered to READ. IE Where is Sulu? IE Where is the medical officer? IE Where do I find a Defai Patrol? How do I do it? They are to lazy to even look at there MAP. Ever try to fly to the thing on the map that says PATROL on it?

Next comes trying to team with them. Unless your in a good Fleet (I found one later) and fly premade getting or finding any kind of team play out of them is like herding cats. I have heard this gem out of the mouth of a fellow Fed player to another, Heals ? ? you want me to help heal? You want heals ? If you want heals PACK YOUR OWN !! This same player when the match ended at Feds 0 and KDF 15 then yelled at the KDF for being OP and HACKING.

Now try the KDF side and you find comrades in arms. You don't even have to group with them to know they got your back. Well, unless its try a klingon day with Feds playing Klingons. So where would you pick to play? The side with the Kiddies? or the side with the more mature comrades in arms?

[Archived Post]

A shrewd -even Machiavellian- observation but accurate. This is why faction neutral content is one of the best wagers Cryptic can make going forward (and I'm surprised more wasn't done earlier to hook it up).

I <3 "The Prince"

[Archived Post]

I agree with jakehutson, and Darren's furtherance.
Cryptic are making the smart move in concentrating on cross faction. Now that satisfies (for the most part) the KDF that want more PVE.
As for PVP, well there's a ton of suggestions floating around; some good, some bad. I personally don't see why it can't for now just be a /flag code and drop the restrictions on KDF movements. Make various use-once systems open for business and implement chat alerts when a fight breaks out. That's the essence of open pvp that I think STO could handle.

The itemisation stuff: I logged in a short while ago on my KDF char, and the new costume parts were pretty decent bar the lead weight boots, but I agree more is needed. Having said that, the devs have already said this stuff is being developed. No ammount of thread repeats will make them work faster I'm sure. It's been 6 months now. Another month? 2? will it be so bad in the grand scheme?

[Archived Post]

I have a Fed VA1 and a KDF LG1 why do I want to play my Klingon over my Fed? I never wanted a FED to begin with I always wanted to fly as a KLINGON in a Bird of Prey. The Federation mamby pamby way of doing things never did much for me and there ships do even less. Only ship I ever liked at all was the Defiant.

Then add on the Fact that Fed side is like visiting a Kinder garden class room. People can't even be bothered to READ. IE Where is Sulu? IE Where is the medical officer? IE Where do I find a Defai Patrol? How do I do it? They are to lazy to even look at there MAP. Ever try to fly to the thing on the map that says PATROL on it?

Next comes trying to team with them. Unless your in a good Fleet (I found one later) and fly premade getting or finding any kind of team play out of them is like herding cats. I have heard this gem out of the mouth of a fellow Fed player to another, Heals ? ? you want me to help heal? You want heals ? If you want heals PACK YOUR OWN !! This same player when the match ended at Feds 0 and KDF 15 then yelled at the KDF for being OP and HACKING.

Now try the KDF side and you find comrades in arms. You don't even have to group with them to know they got your back. Well, unless its try a klingon day with Feds playing Klingons. So where would you pick to play? The side with the Kiddies? or the side with the more mature comrades in arms?

Translation:

1) Take funding from the overwhelming majority who pay STOs bills
2) Call them names
3) ???
4) Profit.

So you have a problem with patience, and call the feds names...

... while arguing the KDF is the more mature crowd.


ooookay

/boggle

[Archived Post]

Your the one who wants to pay for a single faction OMG /boggle

[Archived Post]

ok

i think we get it.

KDF players want some dev-love, they want to know they're wanted and will have stuff done for them.

i have no issue with that at all.

can we please stop with the twice-daily threads about the same thing filled with people displaying an obvious bias and dislike of the company making the game? i somehow doubt they're likely to pay that much solid attention to anything said by someone with their logo burning as their avatar.

i get you're making a point, making a stand and all that, but raging against the machine only leaves you ground up in the wheels.. best way to change a system is from within it.

[Archived Post]

Your the one who wants to pay for a single faction OMG /boggle

at least my single faction has stuff to do!

*sticks out tongue*

neener neener

[Archived Post]

Haha, my point is proven indeed.

Have fun JakeH at least you made me smile.

[Archived Post]

The Federation: Putting a smile on Klingons, one grump at a time.

[Archived Post]

The Federation: Putting a smile on Klingons, one grump at a time.

See, why you hating? I gotta admit, we do these posts to make a point. We paid as well for alot of promises... and like a fart in the wind, we never see anything.

[Archived Post]

Creovex, I totally agree that that Klingons need to be brought up to par before adding another faction and the game really does need the Klingons as much as the Feds.

I think the big push Klingons should gather around is what types of experiences they want - not just missions. The weeklies can have us covered in the PvE department for now.

However, what do Klingons want in the big picture?

Do we want inter-faction rivalries and territory control by joining particular houses and conquering systems "south" on the galaxy map - while also competing against the Feds over territory too?

Do we want ad-hoc open pvp without much rhyme or reason?

I'd prefer the first option (and there's no reason Starfleet would have territory control against itself - while the Klingon house do have a reason for acquiring resources and waging fights between themselves over such resources).

I'd even push it as the Klingon's method of protecting themselves from Undine infiltration. They need to expand far from the Undine/Borg in order to securely build forces to conquer the threat.

Call it "imperialism as survivalism."

The Klingons would rather die conquering new worlds than be assimilated or, worse, be made as puppets like the Federation are.

The Klingons make seek house competition via colonization and conquering as a means of preserving the species from the foolishness of the Federation who fell into the Undine plots (or are they Iconian?).

[Archived Post]

I agree that -if- they were to put in a new faction, the klingons need be brought up before a new one is introduced.

I agree with Darren that the KDF vocals need to figure out what they want and present it to the devs.

The KDF need to realize that they will never have the same or as much content as the Federation

--BECAUSE--

The Star Trek IP started and made profit for decades on the storytelling from the Federations viewpoint. STO would be foolish to invest heavily into anything other than their proven money-maker: the Federation.

--HOWEVER--

Lets say the KDF make up 15-20% of the playerbase (a generous number imo)

They need to figure out how they want their 15-20% of funding to be spent.

A KDF territory in which KDF houses fight over sounds like a great idea.

[Archived Post]

I agree that -if- they were to put in a new faction, the klingons need be brought up before a new one is introduced.

I agree with Darren that the KDF vocals need to figure out what they want and present it to the devs.

The KDF need to realize that they will never have the same or as much content as the Federation

--BECAUSE--

The Star Trek IP started and made profit for decades on the storytelling from the Federations viewpoint. STO would be foolish to invest heavily into anything other than their proven money-maker: the Federation.

--HOWEVER--

Lets say the KDF make up 15-20% of the playerbase (a generous number imo)

They need to figure out how they want their 15-20% of funding to be spent.

A KDF territory in which KDF houses fight over sounds like a great idea.

Now wait a sec, you're right about trek being predominately about starfleet. But you're wrong in saying that funds and resources should be catered according to the population proportions.

We have two factions, and as in any other mmo, we should have roughly 50-50 divide in content. To use an example many people can relate to, WoW has more alliance players than horde players, and more human race players than any other race. Yet content is evenly divided. Equality is important even for, and some may argue, especially, minority groups.

In the topic of this thread, its obvious that there are many who are 'klingon' posters who routinely derail non-kdf discussions and sometimes get threads closed. There are 'fed' posters who do like-wise, but are much fewer in number.

I dont blame the KDF players though. Afterall, they have the most reason to be bitter. But whether they are forgiven for being more belligerent or not, its not helping the KDF faction get any better, because its making a confusing mess of demands and wants that i think the devs have trouble following, and they fear asking for clarification, lest they be set upon by the proverbial pitchfork mob.

The solution, however unfair it is to KDF, must start with players being tolerant and fair, on BOTH sides. Pretty impossible on the internet unfortunately. Though sometimes i hope that people remember this is star trek, and what its about in the end. And i dont mean whats in my sig.

[Archived Post]

Now wait a sec, you're right about trek being predominately about starfleet. But you're wrong in saying that funds and resources should be catered according to the population proportions.

We have two factions, and as in any other mmo, we should have roughly 50-50 divide in content. To use an example many people can relate to, WoW has more alliance players than horde players, and more human race players than any other race. Yet content is evenly divided. Equality is important even for, and some may argue, especially, minority groups.


In your example of 'WoW', ******** has always been about the alliance and the horde. Since ******** 1 in the early 90's, had the 'horde' campaign as well (I think.. may have started in WC2).

Star Trek 95% of the time is about the federation.

You say "we should have roughly 50-50 divide in content"

But why would cryptic spend 50% of their resources on an area of the game only 15-20% of their player base bothers with in the first place, and of which maybe only 7-10% play solely?

Spending 50% of your resources on which you'll see far less gains doesnt make any sense.

Taking 30-35% of the funding from sole fed players to spend on the KDF makes less sense.

[Archived Post]

I just want more depth and detail for the Faction I enjoy playing, the KDF.
With the exception of James Kirk, I have never been a fan of the Federation and have always enjoyed the Klingons much more.
And cryptic would not see such a low amount of Klingon players if they had supported tus better and not merely given us the cold shoulder. The Klingon faction is not low becuase of the lack of interest, its low becuase cryptic took away any reason to find it interesting and then offered excuses on why it was being undeveloped. Most of us have been chased away.

[Archived Post]

You may not be alone

You are still in the small small minority though.

IMO, there shouldn't even be a KDF faction in the first place.

I'm not alone either ;)

[Archived Post]

You may not be alone

You are still in the small small minority though.

IMO, there shouldn't even be a KDF faction in the first place.

I'm not alone either ;)

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2) ~InfoNinja

[Archived Post]

Typical KDF name calling

I'm not suprised you don't resonate with the Federation.

I'm just being bluntly honest about the reasonable expectations the KDF should have, given their limited development budget (in comparison to the Fed)

[Archived Post]

In your example of 'WoW', ******** has always been about the alliance and the horde. Since ******** 1 in the early 90's, had the 'horde' campaign as well (I think.. may have started in WC2).

Star Trek 95% of the time is about the federation.

You say "we should have roughly 50-50 divide in content"

But why would cryptic spend 50% of their resources on an area of the game only 15-20% of their player base bothers with in the first place, and of which maybe only 7-10% play solely?

Spending 50% of your resources on which you'll see far less gains doesnt make any sense.

Taking 30-35% of the funding from sole fed players to spend on the KDF makes less sense.

This is like talking about 2nd-class citizens, which is abit too true, as klingons are sort of 2nd-class players right now. I'll put it this way. Technically, everyone pays taxes right? What if someone obtains citizenship in a country in say, his mid-30s. He/she hasnt paid the equivalent of about 15 years of taxes in duty to his new country, yet enjoys the same benefits as everyone else.

Its not a perfect example, but what im saying is you cant exclude KDF just becuase they've got alot less people. And by exclude, i also mean giving them less than equal resources than the fed side.

And there's the fact that, from my personal observations, so i may be wrong, is that alot of players have a KDF toon waiting at Lt or Lt.cmdr, that they're not going to revisit until the faction shapes up, but they're not ditching it either. It the situation improves, more people might play KDF just from the existing STO population. So there's merit to equalizing resources, even if in the end, we cant really square the volume of content.

[Archived Post]

Its not a perfect example, but what im saying is you cant exclude KDF just becuase they've got alot less people. And by exclude, i also mean giving them less than equal resources than the fed side.


Yes, yes you can.

What you can't do is take development funding away from the large and give it to the small.

What you're suggesting is 50% development for 80% of the players and 50% development for 20% of the players.

That kind of development doesn't make a profit.

As far as your analogy of moving to another country and becoming a citizien...

you can do that in STO. Welcome to the Federation ;) Enjoy all the perks.

[Archived Post]

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2) ~InfoNinja

If you cant have a decent conversion or like other peoples opinions....

TROLL

[Archived Post]

Yes, yes you can.

What you can't do is take development funding away from the large and give it to the small.

What you're suggesting is 50% development for 80% of the players and 50% development for 20% of the players.

That kind of development doesn't make a profit.

As far as your analogy of moving to another country and becoming a citizien...

you can do that in STO. Welcome to the Federation ;) Enjoy all the perks.

Ok, then what about 30-30, and 40% to cross-faction? They way i see it, its going this way anyway. Im not really seeing any federation specific content on the horizon. Right now, the main drive for content is thru the deferi weeklys. So content aside, things like ship design and UI and whatnot, 50-50? Would that be so bad really? We're not short on ships on the fed side, neither are we lacking in any federation specific way. Im not saying the entire STO system doesnt need any improvements, but those are improvements that arent unique to federation.

[Archived Post]

This is like talking about 2nd-class citizens, which is abit too true, as klingons are sort of 2nd-class players right now. I'll put it this way. Technically, everyone pays taxes right? What if someone obtains citizenship in a country in say, his mid-30s. He/she hasnt paid the equivalent of about 15 years of taxes in duty to his new country, yet enjoys the same benefits as everyone else.

Its not a perfect example, but what im saying is you cant exclude KDF just becuase they've got alot less people. And by exclude, i also mean giving them less than equal resources than the fed side.

For every "Fed-Only" player, it means every Klingon-only project is taking some of the Fed players subscription money and giving it to a Klingon player. Because the money can't come only for the Klingon player, otherwise the content would get only the 10-20 % money the Klingon players get in.

I am not a Fed-Only player. I'd love to have some more customes for my K'Tinga. Or actual feather motives on my Bird of Prey. But I definitely do not expect Cryptic to just halt Federation side development for that. What is going to keep people playing the game if there is no new Fed content? Not everyone cares for playing Klingons, just like not everyone wants to play a Starfleet officer.

Cryptic's development has to ensure that both factions get new content. The important thing is to make clear _what_ people want. Clarify your desires. How do you expect Open PvP or House Battles to work like? What kind of mission content would you like to see?

But the whining and "I don't trust Cryptic" stuff can just be dropped. It won't lead anywhere, except alienating everyone. Cryptic devs because they are people just like me and you that don't like to read rage-filled posts directed against them. Other players because they actually enjoy the game or would also like to talk about what they like without being reminded that someone might not have yet gotten what he would have liked.

[Archived Post]

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ( http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?f=70&a=2) ~InfoNinja

Now thats just plain ugly.

Even uglier than a Klingon if thats possible.

[Archived Post]

I am not a Fed-Only player. I'd love to have some more customes for my K'Tinga. Or actual feather motives on my Bird of Prey. But I definitely do not expect Cryptic to just halt Federation side development for that. What is going to keep people playing the game if there is no new Fed content? Not everyone cares for playing Klingons, just like not everyone wants to play a Starfleet officer.


Im not suggesting that fed-side content development be halted, only that a more even balance be struck. It doesnt even have to be more klingon focused, just more balanced. Other than this clarification, i agree with you.

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I find it annoying when Klingon supporters jump into a thread that has nothing to do with the KDF and says something like:

"fed bears need to stop crying and we want our ships now"

or

"we were promised X thing and we dont have it yet, guess the devs hate the Klingons"

or

"they get 3 screenshots and we get 1?!?!? cryptic hates the KDF"

or

"i just feel betrayed by the devs, i never get anything i want when i want it"

They never add anything to the discussion and the thread ends up getting closed because of the bickering.


i agree......................plus ill never forgive the klingons for what they did to my son............10 point if you can tellme the movie thats from

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For every "Fed-Only" player, it means every Klingon-only project is taking some of the Fed players subscription money and giving it to a Klingon player. Because the money can't come only for the Klingon player, otherwise the content would get only the 10-20 % money the Klingon players get in.

I am not a Fed-Only player. I'd love to have some more customes for my K'Tinga. Or actual feather motives on my Bird of Prey. But I definitely do not expect Cryptic to just halt Federation side development for that. What is going to keep people playing the game if there is no new Fed content? Not everyone cares for playing Klingons, just like not everyone wants to play a Starfleet officer.

Cryptic's development has to ensure that both factions get new content. The important thing is to make clear _what_ people want. Clarify your desires. How do you expect Open PvP or House Battles to work like? What kind of mission content would you like to see?

But the whining and "I don't trust Cryptic" stuff can just be dropped. It won't lead anywhere, except alienating everyone. Cryptic devs because they are people just like me and you that don't like to read rage-filled posts directed against them. Other players because they actually enjoy the game or would also like to talk about what they like without being reminded that someone might not have yet gotten what he would have liked.

Curious, its been 6 months, so if you add all that Klingon players that have paid for the lack of anything back, that means that 20% x 6 months = 120% of one month of Feds, which means we should get 1 full month of content every 6 months. So by your math, we have overpaid and it is the Feds that have gotten our money.

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i agree......................plus ill never forgive the klingons for what they did to my son............10 point if you can tellme the movie thats from

Star Trek 6...Right? lol

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Curious, its been 6 months, so if you add all that Klingon players that have paid for the lack of anything back, that means that 20% x 6 months = 120% of one month of Feds, which means we should get 1 full month of content every 6 months. So by your math, we have overpaid and it is the Feds that have gotten our money.

yay

math working on my favor. Thx klinks :D

protip: secondary markets receive secondary attention

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Typical KDF name calling

I'm not suprised you don't resonate with the Federation.

I'm just being bluntly honest about the reasonable expectations the KDF should have, given their limited development budget (in comparison to the Fed)

If you cant have a decent conversion or like other peoples opinions....

TROLL

Now thats just plain ugly.

Even uglier than a Klingon if thats possible.

Not a troll, but an observation.
I put forth my reasons for the advancement of the KDF faction and was met with nothing but snarky and snide comments- so I responded in a like manner.
If you all want to have an adult conversation then don't act like children when others disagree with you or your point of view.

For the record there is no Fed or Klink monies- its all just plain subscription money.

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yay

math working on my favor. Thx klinks :D

protip: secondary markets receive secondary attention

Not to mention, this doesn't factor in how much Klingons have bought in the C-Store... Which I have bought everything to SUPPORT this game.

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i agree......................plus ill never forgive the klingons for what they did to my son............10 point if you can tellme the movie thats from

Actually the quote is:
Kirk: "Captain's log, Stardate 9522.6. I've never trusted Klingons. And I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy. It seems to me our mission to escort the Chancellor of the Klingon High Council to a peace summit is problematic at best. Spock says this could be an historic occasion, and I'd like to believe him, but how on Earth can history get past people like me?"
The movie is Star Trek VI...in the captain's quarters after boarding the Enterprise, and before Varis interrupted his unpacking.

Funny that a Klingon player pointed that out for you federation players...lol

Honestly, we are good people that want our due rewards for hard work. We want another faction, but do not feel it to be fair that they be treated as poorly as we are...You know as well as I do that if they give up on the Klingon faction, that the romulans will be as bad or worse...No working scanners, no crafting, little...few...story quests to level up, PVP experience nerfed beyond belief so that it takes forever to level unless you grind exploration nebulae....

I challenge any federation player to create a Klingon, and seriously TRY to level to LTG doing the missons there, and what is available to them...and tell us how EASY it is...and how GOOD we have it...

Sorry if I am sarcastic, but until you take a walk in our shoes, and see how lopsided this is, then you have no right to an opinion on a side you have never played in earnest.

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Klingons do need to be fleshed out and not just exist so the Feds have someone to shoot at. Personally, I don't PvP so the whole PvP system of STO could go away and it'd not really affect me. But it'd be hard to say STO is a MMO w/o a PvP system. Part of a good MMO is a good enemy faction you can talk smack to. :D

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Curious, its been 6 months, so if you add all that Klingon players that have paid for the lack of anything back, that means that 20% x 6 months = 120% of one month of Feds, which means we should get 1 full month of content every 6 months. So by your math, we have overpaid and it is the Feds that have gotten our money.
But what is one month full of content? Remember, the game we got at release is the result of 24 months or so of development. Maybe one month of content is actually 4-6 episodes plus one or two costumes. . If we use the weekly episodes as baseline for that. It can't be more than that, because if it was, then by your math the Federation players also didn't get the necessary content they should get per month. :)

C-Store stuff can't count - because you have to pay extra for it, it's clearly not part of your subscription fee.

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Not a troll, but an observation.
I put forth my reasons for the advancement of the KDF faction and was met with nothing but snarky and snide comments- so I responded in a like manner.
If you all want to have an adult conversation then don't act like children when others disagree with you or your point of view.

You were met with solid reasons in which the advancement of the KDF should take a distant backseat to the Feds.

You didn't like it, so you called names.

Now you're backpeddling, saying 'oh it was an observation'

Adult conversations have a conclusion after enough points have been weighed.

KDF = 15-20% population
KDF = 15-20% development

Fed = 80-85% population
Fed = 80-85% development

Plain and simple. No way around it. Not from a players perspective, not from a developers perspective, not from a business perspective.

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But what is one month full of content? Remember, the game we got at release is the result of 24 months or so of development. Maybe one month of content is actually 4-6 episodes plus one or two costumes. . If we use the weekly episodes as baseline for that. It can't be more than that, because if it was, then by your math the Federation players also didn't get the necessary content they should get per month. :)

C-Store stuff can't count - because you have to pay extra for it, it's clearly not part of your subscription fee.

Actually the game was a lot less then that, I think one video said 18 months from conception to release and DStahl said in a one interview they had just over a year to develop. 1 month is a ton of time if all resources focused on this.

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You're assuming everything takes a linear ammount of time to onto holodeck

Not only are KDF engines getting 15-20% power

That also means KDF development goes 80-85% slower

[Archived Post]

You were met with solid reasons in which the advancement of the KDF should take a distant backseat to the Feds.

You didn't like it, so you called names.

Now you're backpeddling, saying 'oh it was an observation'

Adult conversations have a conclusion after enough points have been weighed.

KDF = 15-20% population
KDF = 15-20% development

Fed = 80-85% population
Fed = 80-85% development

Plain and simple. No way around it. Not from a players perspective, not from a developers perspective, not from a business perspective.

No i did not this is my first post in this thread;
I just want more depth and detail for the Faction I enjoy playing, the KDF.
With the exception of James Kirk, I have never been a fan of the Federation and have always enjoyed the Klingons much more.
And cryptic would not see such a low amount of Klingon players if they had supported tus better and not merely given us the cold shoulder. The Klingon faction is not low becuase of the lack of interest, its low becuase cryptic took away any reason to find it interesting and then offered excuses on why it was being undeveloped. Most of us have been chased away.

you responded with this before I was even finished editing it ;
You may not be alone

You are still in the small small minority though.

IMO, there shouldn't even be a KDF faction in the first place.

I'm not alone either ;)

at which point I rightly repsonded to your snarkyness with;
Ah but you are an ass- so you have that going for you as well.
because your reply was assinine in its nature and not intended to be un-caustic.

At which I came under fire from more Feds for being a typical Klingon.
At no time was my original post inflamatory or rude to anybody and was an observation of my feelings on the subject matter. So other than calling yopu an ass for acting like on in my second post, how was my first niether adult or civil?

[Archived Post]

You were met with solid reasons in which the advancement of the KDF should take a distant backseat to the Feds.

You didn't like it, so you called names.

Now you're backpeddling, saying 'oh it was an observation'

Adult conversations have a conclusion after enough points have been weighed.

KDF = 15-20% population
KDF = 15-20% development

Fed = 80-85% population
Fed = 80-85% development

Plain and simple. No way around it. Not from a players perspective, not from a developers perspective, not from a business perspective.

While your idea on the business model based off the demagraphics is sound, I do hate to point out that the number of people that are Klingons also have a federation character, so a good number of people that are registered as a Federation captain but primarily play the Klingon side need to be subtracted from that 80-85%...as it is, the math is as fuzzy as State Testing Results for Students in K-12...

If they want to have a second faction for purposes of PVP play, and not just fed vs. fed, they have to get incentives for people to actually play the Klingon side. It does really get dull seeing two federation ships almost evenly matched try to take the other out...That's one of the purposes of having Klingon players...so they can break the monotony of fed vs. fed PVP.

If there are not incentives to play the Klingon side, or to reward PVP or other effort on the Klingon side, then why bother? The PVP system will continue to be slow, it will take longer to find matches with Klingons, and Federation players will continue to be frustrated and have to resort to fighting other feds to do their PVP....

I don't know about you, but when it gets to that point, the game will cease to exist and will either need to be completely reworked, or abandoned.

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I don't know about you, but when it gets to that point, the game will cease to exist and will either need to be completely reworked, or abandoned.

People have been predicting doom to the MMO of their choice if they didn't get what they wanted for a very long time.

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People have been predicting doom to the MMO of their choice if they didn't get what they wanted for a very long time.

Well, when operating costs are more than the subscriptions coming in, then the MMO cannot operate. If a company alienates itself from too much of its client-base, it is a fundamental understanding that people will seek other avenues of entertainment. Hence, since there are many MMO's that have the same problem, you continue to see the same problem. I am not a prophet, nor do I claim to be...it is merely a caveat to others regarding the state of affiars....If businesses choose not to heed their customer's needs or requests, it is then that the caveat emptorum makes the general public take notice...

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personally I think it needs to be overhauled anyways but. the problem is with KDF, is unbalanced feels. its easy to say well..80% of players are fed and only 20% are KDF so KDF gets the backburner. at this point you should be asking yourself WHY is the player base 80/20. is there TRUELY that many people who perfer the feds so much so we shoudln't KDF or is it that the KDF offer so inferior or even NO feeling that people don't play them and just play fed.

IF there was equal content..and equal reward..would the game still be 80/20? No it wouldn't. As is..right now we get 2 missions every 10 levels starting at 10..and we get weeklys now (thank goddess) but outside of that whats there to play? there's a "protect the frontier" which is teh federation version of a deep space enounter. problem with that is its not a FFA zone in..which means that everyone doing it can't all zone in and fight the feds as a group its just you and whoever your grouped with. oh adn the rewards? not so great really. the only positive to it is you can get badges from doing it, thats our big trade off..we get badges..but we're limited as to what we can spend those badges on like feds are so I don't really find this a good tradeoff.

we get nebula runs..but at inferior skill point rewards..yeah thats not so good really. and aside from the weekly its the only variety that the KDF get..and then ere's pvp..which if your not really into PVP...its kind'a pointless. so the content of the KDF is VASTLY inferior to begin with..aside from the FEW real episode missions and teh weeklys...we cant get any nice rewards..we're stuck with badge rewards. there's no engines that are blue that increase weapon and shield powers...or weapon and aux like you get in quest rewards..there's no supped up shields no special electroplasma heavy cannons. the KDF are basically the inferior faction, in fact its hard to call them a faction.

THIS is the reason people complain that the KDF don't get any love. and the arguement is demographics? you give me equal content between the KDF and the Feds..adn THEN take demogrpahic. taking one in the state the game is in now is like I dont know offering a guy a Kobi beef serlion steak at one restraunt and a tastless greesey burger at another joint and asking a customer which he perfers. your taking a demographic of a flawed and uneven system and trying to make a case which has already lost before you really bothered to waste time the demo to begin with. 80/20 is going to STILL be teh demo so long as the content remains unbalanced and unfair. ships aren't really the answer, you gotta GET to 51 to enjoy the ships. the problem is GETTING to 51 withotu getting so bored that you quit playing klingon.

I have a VA fed..and until teh Klingons become more equal..if they raise the cap again..Im going to do my fed more than teh klingon first because well..the Klingons don't offer anything until you get to RA3.

there's gotta be a lot mroe love sent the KDF way before anyone can say the Klingons aren't played so why bother. until then your stats don't show a fair and honest comparison because your pitting a tastless burger against a prime top quality beef steak. sorry.

[Archived Post]

I regret talking about the resources allocation for the factions. What a derail....

[Archived Post]

Well, when operating costs are more than the subscriptions coming in, then the MMO cannot operate. If a company alienates itself from too much of its client-base, it is a fundamental understanding that people will seek other avenues of entertainment.

Whew!

Klingons =/= 'too much of its client-base'

My theory is that if they were to scrap the whole KDF and focus soley and primarily on the Feds, the game would be much better.

[Archived Post]

Whew!

Klingons =/= 'too much of its client-base'

My theory is that if they were to scrap the whole KDF and focus soley and primarily on the Feds, the game would be much better.

Well, it would be better if they were honest about it, and close the side down letting the players know they aren't going to do anything than to string people along. Stringing people along is an act of desperation from people that are unsure of a product. The same thing happened recently with a retail store in this area. They provided goods with shoddy service and that performed poorly, and within 9 months had closed...That's the story of business in this area...mismanagement...I would hate to see that STO has adopted this model...The fed side feels more complete, and I would hate to see them keep stringing people along.

So yes, you are right, but they need to be up-front with people...'a clean-break' to use a euphemism, and quit the side altogether, and forget ANY ideas of incorporating another faction....as the same problem would occur in the future.

[Archived Post]

I disagree with scrapping the Klingon's faction all together. It sets a bad example and gives the impression that the Dev's are incapable of fulfilling the needs of a scattered and diverse fanbase. Too many people already dislike Cryptic and feel they are a subpar design company so throwing in the towel on multiple factions would be very bad for the P/R department and certainly will not draw new players very well.

[Archived Post]

I disagree with scrapping the Klingon's faction all together. It sets a bad example and gives the impression that the Dev's are incapable of fulfilling the needs of a scattered and diverse fanbase. Too many people already dislike Cryptic and feel they are a subpar design company so throwing in the towel on multiple factions would be very bad for the P/R department and certainly will not draw new players very well.

Well, it would be nice of them t o be honest with us and let us know if they are actually going to keep up with addig content on the Klingon side and FOLLOW through instead of breaking more and more promises.

[Archived Post]

I would like to thank jakehutson for his practical demonstration of the necessity of the OP. The multifaceted irony you've introduced to this thread is not unappreciated.

I would also sincerely like to thank any and all Fed players who would like to see the KDF fleshed out a bit more.

[Archived Post]

I would like to thank jakehutson for his practical demonstration of the necessity of the OP. The multifaceted irony you've introduced to this thread is not unappreciated.

I would also sincerely like to thank any and all Fed players who would like to see the KDF fleshed out a bit more.

Eh...Kolikos....thanks :D

[Archived Post]

Just a heads up, as I think some players are getting confused and thinking the KDF is selfish, I want you to think about three simple things.

We need each other equally, so there is no need to belittle one faction or the other, if we didn't then this wouldn't be an MMO. Not to mention with UGC, I have no doubt some of the more active KDF players will be contributing tons, so look at the possible benefits.
If you ever want to see another faction, support the KDF now to get it up and running. As it stands, the template they come up with for the KDF will most likely be applied to whichever faction is next. Romulans without scanners? Good luck.
This game can be great in a year, but if we bleed more players, I doubt it will be around. We need to work to keep ALL players from ALL factions.


Here's a friendly FYI for you...

1) Need is a strong word and relative to the individual. I don't need anyone who plays on the Klingon side. I don't need this game and honestly I don't even need my computer. The game is a luxury and while I hope it's successful, if it disappears tomorrow my life will go on. The only entity than "needs" people who play this game is Cryptic, and they are well aware of what they need.

2) I do NOT want to see another faction in this game. Having 2 is a nightmare, more factions will mean more people to posting daily about how their favorite faction are the new "Klingons" who are hated and despised by the dev team. It was a mistake for them to try and release the Klingon side other than as strictly PvP, and hopefully they don't repeat their mistake. The dev team lacks the resources to develop content for multiple factions. Klingon-centric players should know this better than anyone.

3) I think the game's great RIGHT NOW. Feel free to flame me, insult me or whatever but perception is relative. I'm not some hardcore MMO'er who has to compare this to other games and lose sleep over the fact it may not measure up to them. I play the game because I like Star Trek and enjoy it. I'm as equally entitled to love the game as much as others are entitled to hate it. This game is a hobby and a distraction after a hard day for me and in that capacity it's perfect.

The best thing a company can have is emotional customers. And if these forums prove anything it's that Cryptic has a TON of people who passionately care about this game. People don't get angry and irate over things that have no meaning to them, so from where I can see they are in no danger of going anywhere anytime soon.

If you want to light a fire under them and cause some panic in corporate meetings... let things get very very quiet. Once people stop caring, stop posting, etc. then they will have a serious problem. As every parent knows, as long as the baby is crying everything will be ok.

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Do you know what is funny jakehutson. You reminds me a lit about myself back in pre beta, open beta, and the first month of the launch.... Ignorant was I, and I hate to say it, but I see the same thing in you.

Hey jakehutson Pro tip... you can be a fan, and still question what the devs are doing. Bad feed back is not bad because we need it to get better, and if YOU truly wanted this game to survive then you would question the devs, and ask WHY?

“Question (everything) with boldness even the existence of God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear”?

This is what I follow, and granted it is a statement about government, but in truth it applies to anything that you use, or do that someone else has control over. ( example: Cryptic is making the game, and control it, but I want to see it last a long time, so I question their actions to see if they are for the greater good of the game. ) In other words it is not wrong to follow, but don't follow blindly.

But as I said you remind me a lot about myself.

but chances are you will look past this, and blow it off... how do I know.... I was just like you back in the day, and that is what I would of done.... (:

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Thanks zodi... I think ;)

I'm all for questioning.

The quality of the question determines the quality of the answer.

Mostly what I hear is 15% of the population asking for 50% of the attention. When asked 'what attention' it is bounced around everywhere from: Open PvP, more PvP maps, more missions, crafting, ships, costumes, etc.

A *huge* list which the investment to achieve those things wouldnt produce near a return as needed.

Have the KDF accept they will recieve much less development. Because its already true, they need to accept it.

This means they need to be that much more clear in what they want.

"Okay... we only get 20% development... KDF, what do we want? We gotta be clear and specific and make sure it fufills our needs"

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Well, it would be nice of them t o be honest with us and let us know if they are actually going to keep up with addig content on the Klingon side and FOLLOW through instead of breaking more and more promises.

Honesty is always a nice thing, but to be honest if the game went pure Fed and they dropped the concept of adding other factions - i'm gone.

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Have the KDF accept they will recieve much less development. Because its already true, they need to accept it.


No they have not accepted it, and I hope they do not accept it because 20% of the development is ridiculous. They should be demanding more becuase after 6 months the amount of work put in to the klingons is ridiculous. for example: 2 new ships compared to our 5 full ships... 0 Ship skins to 6... 1 new species to once again our 6... ( that is just to name a few things. )

Part of our live blood is PVP, and we need the Klingons to keep that going. I don't blame them for speaking up, and I want them to continue to speak up. Because I want this game to survive, and thrive. The Question is Do you want this game to thrive?

[Archived Post]

But as I said you remind me a lot about myself.


I remember you from the days back, Zodi, and you were not as stealthly insulting or arrogant as he has been.

[Archived Post]

I think the game has a much better chance of thriving if they don't split their development resources.

A game being balanced and a game making money are two different things.

NA **** is in the throes of death due to poor balance. But in that game it matters far more than STO.

[Archived Post]

I remember you from the days back, Zodi, and you were not as stealthly insulting or arrogant as he has been.

Oh roach... if I didn't know any better, I'd say you don't look on me favorably.

are we still bff?

[Archived Post]

I think the game has a much better chance of thriving if they don't split their development resources.

A game being balanced and a game making money are two different things.

NA **** is in the throes of death due to poor balance. But in that game it matters far more than STO.

Name a good single faction MMO?

Then Name a Good Single Faction MMO that is based on an established IP?

[Archived Post]

I think the game has a much better chance of thriving if they don't split their development resources.

A game being balanced and a game making money are two different things.

NA **** is in the throes of death due to poor balance. But in that game it matters far more than STO.

You just said money and balance are two different things but...what I cannot understand is if **** has poor balance and is going under wouldn't they be related?....methinks so.....

If they don't split their resources then they cannot develop the Romulans...and we all know people want to see that faction come out.....Well, since you aren't in favor of splitting resources to develop other things, then according to that, we shouldn't ever have Romulans.....

Right????....remember...balance....and money.....

[Archived Post]

My first character was KDF. I prefer PvP on the KDF side.

That being said, at what point would everybody say the two sides are 'even'?

It seems to me that the development effort that helps KDF the most is stuff that benefits PvP, and rewards KvF in particular.

[Archived Post]

Final Fantasy.

Although there are different races.

(lol I think... I've never played it, but it did very well)

[Archived Post]

Final Fantasy.

Although there are different races.

(lol I think... I've never played it, but it did very well)

oo...hijack...lol

[Archived Post]

oo...hijack...lol

I was responding to Zodi's question.

[Archived Post]

Final Fantasy.

Although there are different races.

(lol I think... I've never played it, but it did very well)

Good now that I got you thinking....

Name a Single Faction Sci Fi ( not fantasy ) that is good?



( also for Final Fantasy it got really beat down for the lack of PVP at launch. Keep that in mind )

[Archived Post]

Good now that I got you thinking....

Name a Single Faction Sci Fi ( not fantasy ) that is good?



( also for Final Fantasy it got really beat down for the lack of PVP at launch. Keep that in mind )

Uh....the Ewoks?.....

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If you want to light a fire under them and cause some panic in corporate meetings... let things get very very quiet. Once people stop caring, stop posting, etc. then they will have a serious problem. As every parent knows, as long as the baby is crying everything will be ok.
Yeah, but babies can't pack their bags and leave. :p The problem is, if we "go quiet," it will be because we're done with the game and we've left. It'll be too late to do anything then - for many who have already left, it's already too late.

Have the KDF accept they will recieve much less development. Because its already true, they need to accept it.
To an extent, we do. But, as others have pointed out in other threads, the gap seems to get noticeably larger with every update (or, if you include the shared missions, the uniqueness of the faction risks getting diluted with every update).

This means they need to be that much more clear in what they want.

"Okay... we only get 20% development... KDF, what do we want? We gotta be clear and specific and make sure it fufills our needs"
I'd say "fair enough," except for two things. First, it's only partly about current KDF players - the faction needs to attract those people who would like to play Klink, but aren't due to the faction's shortcomings. The question here is, what would get people to play Klingon?

Second, even us current KDF players are a diverse bunch. For instance, I don't like the idea of vanilla PvE, but others think it's necessary (and they're probably right). Getting us to agree on one overall theme is worse than herding cats. The best we can do is put our ideas and concerns out there - but the final decision really lies with Cryptic, and, IMHO, they really need to pick up the reigns.

Personally, I'd rather see Cryptic say, "We're gonna take our time and do a top-to-bottom review of the KDF" than get pelted by ships and costume pieces and stopgap PvE missions. At this point, I'd accept anything other than a re-skinned Starfleet, so long as it's well done.

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To an extent, we do. But, as others have pointed out in other threads, the gap seems to get noticeably larger with every update (or, if you include the shared missions, the uniqueness of the faction risks getting diluted with every update).


Well, we aren't about keeping up with the Jones's. We are about getting at least something for our new station of office. hat means a notation of rank, a ship to go with our new rank, AND veteran rewards for those who have chosen to play a klingon.....

If you cannot comprehend that, then it's not my fault......That's alll Klingons want in a nutshell.....There are some that want equal content, but we know that's a dream/...but the other items NEED to be addressed.

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Good now that I got you thinking....

Name a Single Faction Sci Fi ( not fantasy ) that is good?



( also for Final Fantasy it got really beat down for the lack of PVP at launch. Keep that in mind )

We talking games...? I'm not sure there has ever been a good multi-faction Trek game. The best have all been single faction, single era, IMHO.

Sci-fi in general?

99% of Star Trek.

I'd say Babylon 5 is single faction to the extreme. The heroic faction is basically seven or so core characters on the station and their support staff and everyone else is a threat or enemy.

If we're talking MMOs?

City of Heroes. (Jack took the wrong lesson here when CoV didn't adjust the subscriber base all that much. IMHO, the lesson wasn't that every feature needs to be in at launch but that factions are something a few people are very passionate about but the average gamer doesn't care if there are twelve or just one as long as they can still co-op, PvP, and have things to do.) Even after CoV, I'd argue that CoX is STILL basically a single faction MMO with two skins.

And that's all STO would be even with full Klingon content and PvP turf control sectors. None of these features require factions.

******** is the MMO model for a lot of people and its players actively avoid faction balance, with many or most servers skewing heavily one way or the other.

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We talking games...? I'm not sure there has ever been a good multi-faction Trek game.

Birth of the federation, Armada 1 and 2, dominion wars

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personally I think it needs to be overhauled anyways but. the problem is with KDF, is unbalanced feels. its easy to say well..80% of players are fed and only 20% are KDF so KDF gets the backburner. at this point you should be asking yourself WHY is the player base 80/20. .

I would have quoted the whole thing kristi because it was all good. Just one point that you made--resources.

The amount that needs to come out right now, does not equal the amount of Cryptic employees working on STO.

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I would have quoted the whole thing kristi because it was all good. Just one point that you made--resources.

The amount that needs to come out right now, does not equal the amount of Cryptic employees working on STO.

well, there need to be more.....

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well, there need to be more.....

QFT! There needs to be. Ok Cryptic, you have to take a pay cut, and then hire new devs at twice your pay just to get them in the door. After that, reduce their pay and then rinse and repeat.

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QFT! There needs to be. Ok Cryptic, you have to take a pay cut, and then hire new devs at twice your pay just to get them in the door. After that, reduce their pay and then rinse and repeat.

Well, I did say they should hire interns and grad students so that if they screw something up, they can blame someone other than the people at CBS...lol. These people I mentioned in an earlier thread...only need to be paid with food, and tuition assistance...not cover it completely...but some...lol...

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Whew!

Klingons =/= 'too much of its client-base'

My theory is that if they were to scrap the whole KDF and focus soley and primarily on the Feds, the game would be much better.


No it wouldnt,

And as a KDF only player I take offense to this statement because its ignorant I see a lot of post from cross
faction players that they would play more on KDF if they had more content and a lot of post from fed only
players who say the only reason they havnt started a KDF toon is because they are waiting for more
content.


So would it be so bad to put more focus on KDF side for a few months (and Im not saying to halt all fed content) but just slow down a little, I mean dont you have enough new ships and content and bobbles
to tied you over for just a little while as they shore up the KDF side.


I see it as more choice is always better the less choice and Im sure there are a lot of Fed players who
are still playing just waiting for the romulans to become a faction so if the scraped the KDF you would
lose those players plus those who are still here just waiting for the romulans and that would not make
STO better.

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FYI, faction bashing is, in a way, part of the MMO gaming experience...

I mean, have you never heard of the Horde and the Alliance?

I see a person wearing a t-shirt with that blood-red crest of the Orcs on it, and honor and pride begins to swell within me.

But so help me... Just one hint of Alliance sympathy and a small part of me wants to have a throwdown Scott Pilgrim-style with that person right there in the middle of the grocery store!

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My favorite STO character is Lazalee Ekor, my KDF-faction joined Trill. I love flying my Bird of Prey, using my battle cloak to pick my battles, beaming down in my Klingon armor, and killing things with my bat'leth and dual disruptor pistols. She's an absolute joy to play.

She also gets less play than either of my Federation characters, because of the lack of content. I can level her pretty quickly running explores, but I want to do story missions, and while the ones I've done with her have been excellent (the House of Martok arc), there aren't any at her current level, and explores get a bit bland after a while.

So I'll come out and say... I want more PvE. Lots more. Enough to get from Lieutenant 5 to Lieutenant General without doing many explores at all.

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Oh roach... if I didn't know any better, I'd say you don't look on me favorably.

are we still bff?

Don't worry, I got your huckleberry.

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I would like to thank jakehutson for his practical demonstration of the necessity of the OP. The multifaceted irony you've introduced to this thread is not unappreciated.

I would also sincerely like to thank any and all Fed players who would like to see the KDF fleshed out a bit more.

Quoted for truth!

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haters gonna hate

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feds = albion

klinks = hibernia

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artic, I really tried to get everyone to disarm

but if you can't beat em...

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bringing in a few more guilds and groups of people

isn't worth

the massive development manhours

its gonna take to get KDF up to par.

you have your opinion that KDF needs to be fixed. I have my opinion that it isn't worth it.

If a 2nd faction is not worth developing, then there is no hope to ever have a 3rd, 4th or 5th faction and the game may as well just shut down now.

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FYI, faction bashing is, in a way, part of the MMO gaming experience...

I mean, have you never heard of the Horde and the Alliance?

I see a person wearing a t-shirt with that blood-red crest of the Orcs on it, and honor and pride begins to swell within me.

But so help me... Just one hint of Alliance sympathy and a small part of me wants to have a throwdown Scott Pilgrim-style with that person right there in the middle of the grocery store!

Sorry but best faction bashing and forum fighting involving nerfs is held by Sony's Planetside.... All three factions were posting every other minute arguing constantly, every patch was another 1000+ posts in hours.... needless to say, it balanced things out in the long run. But totally insane!