Universal Bridge Officers

[Archived Post]

Hello,

What if all Officer Positions were to be Universal on All ships?

I think the current system is still a bit inflexible when it comes to mixing and matching different Careers with Different ships (example tactical officer using a cruiser, or engineer using science ships) etc.

The Ships themselves already have constraints, in terms of capabilities bonuses and consoles appropriate to their primary role. why do we absolutely have to have an Engineer Commander and not being able to choose a Science or tactical Commander for our ships as an added constraint?

According to cannon, it falls upon the captain to choose whom they prefer to have part of their bridge senior staff. I think it could be beneficial from both a Consistency with Cannon perspective but more importantly, a gameplay perspective giving more purpose to seeking, training and exchanging officers right now, but also to permit us more flexibility with the game itself.

It could also add more purpose to reassigning officers for different mission profiles, I have had the same officers since launch I really do not see the need to change them around much with the current system, on top of it as a tactical officer Commanding Cruisers, I can't even teach Lt.Commander and Commander skills to any of my officers since I have none that could use what I can teach anyways.

I had made a similar Thread near launch and there was talk about First officers, but that never seems to have materialized since then.

I think it would permit for more in-game customization as well to all of us trying different configurations of officers/abilities with different ships. And most importantly emphasize our role as captains too, able to choose our own Bridge officers instead of having these imposed by a standard template associated to the ship itself making it feel less organic, like if Bridge officers were themselves some type of Ship equipment rather than live beings.

What does everyone think about this?

[Archived Post]

Why do I have a DéjÃ* Vu?

[Archived Post]

lol- I think its a bad idea and will lead even further into the generalizing the gameplay of STO, so much so that all ships will feel the same with little to set them apart or distinquish them by faction, class or function.

[Archived Post]

Why do I have a DéjÃ* Vu?

What did the black cat look like? Was it identical to the first one you saw, maybe the same cat?

[Archived Post]

According to cannon, it falls upon the captain to choose whom they prefer to have part of their bridge senior staff. I think it could be beneficial from both a Consistency with Cannon perspective but more importantly, a gameplay perspective giving more purpose to seeking, training and exchanging officers right now, but also to permit us more flexibility with the game itself.

Wait I thought I did pick my BOs? I chose my BOs from a list. I chose which of those BOs were for the ship, ground or both. I chose who would fill what station from a list of officers on a similar career path. So I am confused by this thread.

Oh wait this is a clever plea for uni-stations.

OK I will admit there is the occasional moment I wish I had one, but once I figure out how to get a ship to work for me that all evaporates.

Did you know that right now I have two Klings one of which is my tied for favorite toon in game. I will have a third Kling before the weekend is over. None of them fly BoPs. One is almost a BG, yet not one flys BoP. Now if I have a considerable amount of time invested in the KDF and I do not chose to fly the only ship in the game with BO stations the way you wish all the ships in the game were, what does that suggest?

I did fly a BoP early on... It popped allot. In part because i tried to use it like a cruiser, and because it pays a heavy price to mount those uni-stations, battle cloak, and mostly their insane turn rate.

Right now in PvP there is a small peace of mind that comes from dedicated BO stations and that is having a tiny clue about what your opponent could throw at you. All ships with naught but uni-stations would destroy that aspect of the game.

[Archived Post]

Why do I have a DéjÃ* Vu?

Yes I am sorry for bringing up the same suggestion in two places, I realized after I posted the first one that this area may have been appropriate as well.

It is interesting except the people that shared their opinions on both to see however different people's perspectives.

I found this point quite interesting:

Right now in PvP there is a small peace of mind that comes from dedicated BO stations and that is having a tiny clue about what your opponent could throw at you. All ships with naught but uni-stations would destroy that aspect of the game.

I feel this comment demonstrates that Star Ships in this game mean very little in the overall picture, and since BO's are part of ship equipment and not an element which is "floating", like one would expect in reality.

It demonstrates that the combat system of this game is based largely on a "character" model. meaning that not unlike some other type of game, where there are Classes, such as Rogues and Priests and Warriors, this game's Ships and its combat is indeed designed like such a system instead of a system based on Ships.

Lets for a moment assume that we take any of the Crews of ST series and give them a different type of ship, do you think that they will just suddenly lose their ranks and position just because they are in a different ship?

Spock will be commander and first officer of Kirk no matter the ship, same with Riker same with Chakotay etc. Geordi will still take care of engineering just like Scotty did when the crew used a BOP instead of the enterprise (ST IV), and this was not a result of the BOP having universal seats that can accommodate anyone, it was because Scotty was the Chief engineer of that Crew and independently of the ship that crew was operating he would assume that role and would be able to apply his knowledge nevertheless.

All I am trying to say is that in this game the ships themselves are just for looks really, and maybe that is why many find that the game lacks in that area (the game is great in many other areas), specially in PvP, where the combat system is too much ability based rather than ship board equipment based.

Picard would be able to perform any Attack pattern in any ship independently of its role profile.

I know Cryptic may not be interested in improving their Ship system, yet I also know that the game is losing popularity, and part of the reasons it does is also the approach that the game currently has on StarShips and how Combat works, which affects other areas of enjoyment in the long run.

I am not saying Cryptic made a Mistake, or that they intentionally designed the system like this in order to be able o sell Ship Constumes in the C-Store. All I am saying is that there are many people who do not relate to it and would have preferred a different approach.

And if we all have some type of interest in improving this game so that it reaches beyond it currently shrinking population, then this is a very good area to start improving.

No matter how many missions and adventures are added, if the people do not relate to the vehicle that carries them through them the people will not come back.

[Archived Post]

Lets for a moment assume that we take any of the Crews of ST series and give them a different type of ship, do you think that they will just suddenly lose their ranks and position just because they are in a different ship?

No they would not forget how to do things... however spock isn't going to be scanning at Mr. Worfs consul. Mr. Worf is NOT going to be firing torpedos from sulus station. THE ship is build in one way or the other... I wouldn't expect to see a fancy astrometrics facility on the defiant even if you did have 7of9 on board. The ship has what it has. This is Cannon.

The BOP however is cannon to be universal. They are MASS produced by the klingons in a modular way. The klings designed them to fill as many roles as possible. They don't have 100s of planets footing the bill. They can't design a ship for every occasion.


Spock will be commander and first officer of Kirk no matter the ship, same with Riker same with Chakotay etc. Geordi will still take care of engineering just like Scotty did when the crew used a BOP instead of the enterprise (ST IV), and this was not a result of the BOP having universal seats that can accommodate anyone, it was because Scotty was the Chief engineer of that Crew and independently of the ship that crew was operating he would assume that role and would be able to apply his knowledge nevertheless.

Again what is your point. Put the commander of the space shuttle behind the wheel of my car will he be able to launch it into space? The officer can't reconfigure the ship. Again the only ship in cannon that was used in multiple ways was the BOP... Defiant class ships never had the higher end sci toys. The Galaxy class ships never had the Sci Ship toys either. The Sci ships where smaller more fragile and didn't have the guns the defiant had. The ship layouts in game are pretty close to cannon setups IMHO anyway.


Picard would be able to perform any Attack pattern in any ship independently of its role profile.

I think that could be argued. I Doubt Very Very highly Picard would have piloted the defiant in the same way he would the enterprise or the stargazer. The Galaxy class is not doing any barrel rolls.


I know Cryptic may not be interested in improving their Ship system, yet I also know that the game is losing popularity, and part of the reasons it does is also the approach that the game currently has on StarShips and how Combat works, which affects other areas of enjoyment in the long run.

I am not saying Cryptic made a Mistake, or that they intentionally designed the system like this in order to be able o sell Ship Constumes in the C-Store. All I am saying is that there are many people who do not relate to it and would have preferred a different approach.

And if we all have some type of interest in improving this game so that it reaches beyond it currently shrinking population, then this is a very good area to start improving.

No matter how many missions and adventures are added, if the people do not relate to the vehicle that carries them through them the people will not come back.

Not really sure how having a Universal slot is going to make you "relate" to you ship any better??? What. If anything you said made sense any player that has played a BOP would never leave the game I guess.

[Archived Post]

I don't think CBS would approve of a Universal Bridge Officer.

Besides, I don't recall any Star Trek character ever dual rolling. The only character that came close was Tom Paris supplementing the Doctor with his medic training. And there was Worf delivering Molly on the Ent-D, but his skills were basic medical training too.


Now I could see Cryptic adding a Command division if roles are further defined, in which Command officers could supplement other characters. But that would require Bridge Officers in space being disabled (injured).

[Archived Post]

I feel this comment demonstrates that Star Ships in this game mean very little in the overall picture, and since BO's are part of ship equipment and not an element which is "floating", like one would expect in reality.

All I am trying to say is that in this game the ships themselves are just for looks really, and maybe that is why many find that the game lacks in that area (the game is great in many other areas), specially in PvP, where the combat system is too much ability based rather than ship board equipment based.

Giving all of the ships universal BO stations would go along way towards making a ship nothing more than a skin. As they stand now each class has quirks you have to adapt to and that is more character like than simply setting up a ship for the latest "IwinButton" strategy of the week.

I know Cryptic may not be interested in improving their Ship system, yet I also know that the game is losing popularity, and part of the reasons it does is also the approach that the game currently has on StarShips and how Combat works, which affects other areas of enjoyment in the long run.

No matter how many missions and adventures are added, if the people do not relate to the vehicle that carries them through them the people will not come back.

One of the points of Star Trek was that the ship it's self is a character. When I first started to watch TOS as a child it was the Enterprise it's self that hooked me. Of course the guy who kept the Enterprise running was the character I related to first and Scott became my favorite for a time. Then it occurred to me that to control such a ship was more sublime than to touch and tinker with it. Then Kirk and Spock, who's combined intuition and logic guided the actions that the Enterprise and crew acted out, became my favorites. Well if Kirk and Spock tell the crew what to do and the crews actions make the ship do what it does, then the guy who maintains the crew is just as important as the guy who maintains the ship. They are even more important in a way because they maintain the guy who maintains the ship and the guys who command the ship. Then DeForest Kelly's McCoy became my all time favorite. He is the only Starfleet doc to figure this ethos out.

The reason for this diatribe is not one character does it all. Even McCoy had his limitations. Like every character has it's limitation every station has it's function. How often did we see Uhura answer a hail from Sulu's tactical station? How many torpedo salvos did Sulu issue from Checkov's navigation station? How many asteroid fields did Checkov navigate from Uhura's communication console? Just as your arm is your arm and would make a terrible leg.

For that matter if I assign a commander to an ensign station they are still a commander. It's just that the station cannot handle the full awesomeness of that commander. If you recall the set of the 1701 there were many sub stations on the bridge that cover this STO convention. As your selected bridge crew grows the "extras" not in the uniform you selected for your assigned crew get replaced by your new crew selection. Don't believe me? The next time you make a new tier visit your bridge when you fist take your new ship out of ESD1, then visit again when you make level 10 in that same tier and tell me I am full of dookie.

I know, I know. This is the 25th century and the ships are much more advanced, like the two consoles of the 1701-D. Ah but even the 1701-D had sub-stations in the background behind the Captain's chair manned by extras, just like the 1701's. Same story for the 1701-E. Same story for the Advanced Escort as presented in the game.

[Archived Post]

I don't think CBS would approve of a Universal Bridge Officer.

Besides, I don't recall any Star Trek character ever dual rolling. The only character that came close was Tom Paris supplementing the Doctor with his medic training. And there was Worf delivering Molly on the Ent-D, but his skills were basic medical training too.


Now I could see Cryptic adding a Command division if roles are further defined, in which Command officers could supplement other characters. But that would require Bridge Officers in space being disabled (injured).

Actually I think you are not paying attention. We do not see the Dual role happening often in the series and movies, but it does happen.

It happens in the episodes which propel the protagonists in odd and temporary situations, usually episodes that have to do with Alternate time lines, and realities, where we know everything we go back to normal in the end of the episode.

In these episode we have seen almost everyone dual rolling and taking up the functions of someone else that under normal circumstances they would not.

We have never seen Sulu or Checkov being blown to bits so that Spock runs over and takes their place, but that does not mean that Spock does not know how to operate Ships Helm or Fire Torpedoes.

It is just that this is not his normal function, and the episode script did not call for such action, where in the few episodes with alternate times lines and realities the script can afford to have some of the protagonists die or taken out of commission because this is something temporary.

As for Klingon ships, we have seen them exchange role because some guy got blown to peaces (which is fine since they are extras not protagonists), and the captain immediately replaced them with the next candidate from another Station which he or she deemed at the time was less important.

Conversely, this never happened when the crew of the Enterprise was Commanding a BOP, no one got blown to peaces for Kirk to call for someone else to replace them. But this does not mean that they are not capable of doing so.

As such we have seen, even the Ships Counselor take active role in Combat operations, or a Holographic medical Officer, even if these under normal circumstances are not their primary functions.

The point is that Intelligent being are not dumb machines, we are more than capable of adapting ourselves to different circumstances and change our function as the situation calls. And that is the Caveat with the current implementation, BO's are not portrayed or even considered as living beings even if we are expected to see them as such, they have very limited and single functions, like if they were all a Component of the ship itself and what makes that ship up rather than its crew, its operators.

Besides, all Academy Cadets learn all aspects of Star Ship operations and then they Choose (and are Assigned) to the one where they have the most talent in. It is not like a Helmsman is only trained to do one single thing and does not know how to operate a Comm Link.

Because it may happen that BO's die that the Function Structure is demolished in a battle and everyone must be able to step up and change roles, otherwise it would be too easy to disable enemy ships, just kill a few key personnel and the ship does not operate after that. It is part of every cadet's basic training.

That being said,

I think some of you misunderstand me, I am not seeking for an "I win" button, please dissociate yourselves from the idea that what I am proposing is to have all ships have Universal Consoles under the current system. It is assumed in my suggestion that surrounding and connected systems of the game will also be adjusted accordingly to reflect this reality and address any possible issues in relation to the current system.

In the bigger picture what I am suggesting is re-imagining or rebooting if you will this aspect of the game, and BO's are the start point.

Giving all of the ships universal BO stations would go along way towards making a ship nothing more than a skin. As they stand now each class has quirks you have to adapt to and that is more character like than simply setting up a ship for the latest "IwinButton" strategy of the week.

You are right but not exactly as you perceive it. Actually I find it funny that you would say that because right now what makes the Ship is the BO's, so the ships itself is a Skin to begin with, smartly hidden.

If the BO's are made Unversal, it emphasizes that fact, it makes it Obvious! But it does not change it, which means that it is a fact right now. Right now the Ships are but Skins.

And in the rest of your post you are contradicting your own self. Since, you yourself realized, that a Ship independently of its crew should maintain its capabilities.

Yet, in STO it does not, because if we change the crew to Universal it changes the Capabilities of the Ship.

So my suggestion here, actually is in Line to how you would like things to be, where Ships themselves are the beholders of Capabilities and Roles and not the BO complement which ideally could enhance a given ships areas (Offense Defense or Support), but not alter its primary role nevertheless.

The Ship itself, its design, its components and Equipment must determine the role, then the crew comes in and operates it and ad flavor and possibilities to it all, and make Captains feel like Captains being able to choose the configuration of their Bridge Own Bridge Crew and decide the distribution of their Officers, some may like to have a Commander Scientist others may like to have an Engineer or a Tactical officer...Independently of the Ship that they are currently Commanding.

A small Example: The Galaxy Class Cruiser is equipped with Torpedoe Launchers that are capable of shooting in various configurations, Salvoes etc...this does not depend on who is manning the tactical Console it depends on the build of the ship itself.

So yes, we basically want the same thing.

[Archived Post]

You are right but not exactly as you perceive it. Actually I find it funny that you would say that because right now what makes the Ship is the BO's, so the ships itself is a Skin to begin with, smartly hidden.

The exact same thing can be said of the BOs and our toons. They like a ship's skin, are nothing more that a collection of related math that allow the player to interact with the game. That you have to deal with the limitation of the ship, BOs, and your toon is what gives them all character. What you want is an Ensign Mary Sue (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue) for a ship with little to no draw backs. What I want is a graphical approximation of a fantasy. One that has limitations I must work around.

If the BO's are made Unversal, it emphasizes that fact, it makes it Obvious! But it does not change it, which means that it is a fact right now. Right now the Ships are but Skins.

That opens the door for Mary Sue BOs who do it all.

And in the rest of your post you are contradicting your own self. Since, you yourself realized, that a Ship independently of its crew should maintain its capabilities.

Yet, in STO it does not, because if we change the crew to Universal it changes the Capabilities of the Ship.

Yet in STO it does. The ships character is it's Id defined by limitations of ship class types that in turn define things like maximum potential firepower, turn rate, top speed, console types, power configurations and BO layout. The Ego is represented by the BOs themselves, Their type, their skills selected by the superego and stations the Superego set them to. Finally the superego which is the interplay of the player and the captain type they chose. Each archetype Id, Ego and Superego has their strengths and weakness which in turn add up to define the thing you like to call naught more than a skin, the ship.

So my suggestion here, actually is in Line to how you would like things to be, where Ships themselves are the beholders of Capabilities and Roles and not the BO complement which ideally could enhance a given ships areas (Offense Defense or Support), but not alter its primary role nevertheless.

No what you suggest is not what I want. From what I read of your words, you want Ensign Mary Sue, what I want is Othelo.

The Ship itself, its design, its components and Equipment must determine the role, then the crew comes in and operates it and ad flavor and possibilities to it all, and make Captains feel like Captains being able to choose the configuration of their Bridge Own Bridge Crew and decide the distribution of their Officers, some may like to have a Commander Scientist others may like to have an Engineer or a Tactical officer...Independently of the Ship that they are currently Commanding.

Yet those very things you list can easily be made into an analogy of the human psyche as they sit now. What you suggest is to remove a major limiting factor and make superships that have no kryptonite to keep them believable.

A small Example: The Galaxy Class Cruiser is equipped with Torpedoe Launchers that are capable of shooting in various configurations, Salvoes etc...this does not depend on who is manning the tactical Console it depends on the build of the ship itself.

Given the Galaxy's dismal turn rate we can see the juxtaposition of strength and weakness that makes it all believable in relation to the Galaxy.

So yes, we basically want the same thing.

No I do not agree that we want the same thing. You want to give all ships universal BO slots, which would make them better yet would sacrifice a significant proportion of the character of those ships. I love the shortcomings of ships like the Fleet Escort. I miss the Warsent (http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm454/pi_wright/?action=view&current=WithDreamsofPeacetoWarShewasSent.jpg&newest=1) and, as good as the refit Defiant is, am thinking about bringing her, (USS Warsent), out of retirement.

Just for clarification I welcome the fact that you do not agree with me and I have no expectation for you to agree with me. As General Patton once observed, and I paraphrase, if we are all thinking alike then no one is thinking. The fact that you are thinking deserves my respect and you have that from me.

[Archived Post]

Hello,

What if all Officer Positions were to be Universal on All ships?

I think the current system is still a bit inflexible when it comes to mixing and matching different Careers with Different ships (example tactical officer using a cruiser, or engineer using science ships) etc.

The Ships themselves already have constraints, in terms of capabilities bonuses and consoles appropriate to their primary role. why do we absolutely have to have an Engineer Commander and not being able to choose a Science or tactical Commander for our ships as an added constraint?

According to cannon, it falls upon the captain to choose whom they prefer to have part of their bridge senior staff. I think it could be beneficial from both a Consistency with Cannon perspective but more importantly, a gameplay perspective giving more purpose to seeking, training and exchanging officers right now, but also to permit us more flexibility with the game itself.

It could also add more purpose to reassigning officers for different mission profiles, I have had the same officers since launch I really do not see the need to change them around much with the current system, on top of it as a tactical officer Commanding Cruisers, I can't even teach Lt.Commander and Commander skills to any of my officers since I have none that could use what I can teach anyways.

I had made a similar Thread near launch and there was talk about First officers, but that never seems to have materialized since then.

I think it would permit for more in-game customization as well to all of us trying different configurations of officers/abilities with different ships. And most importantly emphasize our role as captains too, able to choose our own Bridge officers instead of having these imposed by a standard template associated to the ship itself making it feel less organic, like if Bridge officers were themselves some type of Ship equipment rather than live beings.

What does everyone think about this?

This may work lets see?? Huh first we all have universal slots and cloak on every ship then how about we all just get the same amount of weapon slots. Wait then after 6 months of balancing they (Cryptic) can start all over again. They will need to start by making everyone’s shields the same and hull as well. Wait wait…….. I got it just give everyone the bop and let us buy them halo emitter things, but the emitter will last full time that would be a easier way huh?? They can make a auto pilot system with auto boffs and auto target and we can fly around and around each other blasting away. Either that or just take all the boff away and give every on the same ship with same equipment and weapons so that way when you die you will know it is because you SUCK.

Rant for the weak I mean week

To Quote a Friend: Harden the Fu*# UP!

[Archived Post]

AKfourtyseven is harsh about it but has a point. People who ask for things like battle cloak and universal BO slots are often perceived as not learning how to make their build work for them.

The min/max ethos goes beyond an optimized distribution of skills and into knowing where your build is weak and strong. This way you don't expose your weaknesses any more than you have to while you play to your strengths.

People who ask for things that would over simplify the playing field or make them OP relative to another faction, even if it is only for PvE, as a general rule have not learned how to cover where they are weak and how to play to their strengths. This in turn invites learn to play comments and flames from successful PvPers.

[Archived Post]

AKfourtyseven is harsh about it but has a point. People who ask for things like battle cloak and universal BO slots are often perceived as not learning how to make their build work for them.

The min/max ethos goes beyond an optimized distribution of skills and into knowing where your build is weak and strong. This way you don't expose your weaknesses any more than you have to while you play to your strengths.

People who ask for things that would over simplify the playing field or make them OP relative to another faction, even if it is only for PvE, as a general rule have not learned how to cover where they are weak and how to play to their strengths. This in turn invites learn to play comments and flames from successful PvPers.

But I have been sitting here hearing this crap for 6 months now and it appears cryptic has started to wise up to this and stopped surrendering to the mobs. It would appear from cryptic action as of lately that they may actually be on a path that is best for the game and not to surrender to a mass of PvE flower pickers that bring the PvE killer builds to PvP and cry when they die. See it is all about time spend in PvP you are not fighting NPCs that do not heal themselves and fly aimlessly. You have to adapt to each and every player you come across and adjust your builds to the next nerf I mean patch. But before you can even get better you have to understand there will always be someone better. Take them as goal to one day beat and strive to be better at piloting, building, and adjusting. PvP is a ever changing field unlike PvE PvP can change on the fly many smart pvpers roll two or three builds that they are able to switch back and forth from in secs. See as a FED I leveled up murdering NPC to max a toon but jumping into PVP was a reality check you see no matter how many hour you spend killing NPCs you will learn nothing helpful in the ways of PVP. My solution maybe unorthodox to some was to PVP a lot. For ex. if I spend 8 hours in game 7 of toughs are PvP that is how you get better not by starting forum after forum crying about why I do not suck and why it is the GAME.

PLAY THE DAM GAME

[Archived Post]

But I have been sitting here hearing this crap for 6 months now and it appears cryptic has started to wise up to this and stopped surrendering to the mobs. It would appear from cryptic action as of lately that they may actually be on a path that is best for the game and not to surrender to a mass of PvE flower pickers that bring the PvE killer builds to PvP and cry when they die. See it is all about time spend in PvP you are not fighting NPCs that do not heal themselves and fly aimlessly. You have to adapt to each and every player you come across and adjust your builds to the next nerf I mean patch. But before you can even get better you have to understand there will always be someone better. Take them as goal to one day beat and strive to be better at piloting, building, and adjusting. PvP is a ever changing field unlike PvE PvP can change on the fly many smart pvpers roll two or three builds that they are able to switch back and forth from in secs. See as a FED I leveled up murdering NPC to max a toon but jumping into PVP was a reality check you see no matter how many hour you spend killing NPCs you will learn nothing helpful in the ways of PVP. My solution maybe unorthodox to some was to PVP a lot. For ex. if I spend 8 hours in game 7 of toughs are PvP that is how you get better not by starting forum after forum crying about why I do not suck and why it is the GAME.

PLAY THE DAM GAME

You'll get no argument from me brother. I only sought to help the OP understand why you come on so strong.

I am no PvP purist, I still PvE, but I do enjoy PvP even when I get my teeth kicked in. You are right, if a player wants to do well in the game they should look to PvP as the best way to hone their skills. The AI in this game is too idiodic to provide a real way to learn. I know I tried that route, even Elite is a poor aproximation for the intuative ingenuity of a humanbeing.

The thing about many PvPers in STO is if you ask they will tell. The best want a real challenge and if that takes teaching a noob a trick or two they will.

Since I have learned a little about PvP in the game the PvE has gotten easier. Now when people who complain that the new weekly that launched on the 30th is too hard I can give them advice. They are usually floored to find that I have beaten it on advanced difficulty multiple times. I don't tell them to brag but to establish credentials. Learn to PvP, learn to work your build, learn to enjoy the limitations of your ship and you will find you sound more like AKfoutyseven or myself when you type on the forums. Look at my post history to see the truth in my words. My evolution as a player is hidden there.

[Archived Post]

Thank you both for your comments but I am sorry to say for the most part are irrelevant.

You are both making an assumption, you think that I am making the suggestions that i do in this thread because i am having some difficulty with the game. I actually play on Elite Difficulty most of the time now that we have it.

And, I have leveled through PvP mainly too, I still have plenty of lower level Missions Patrols and Story that i have not completed yet and doing them slowly.

So, this is not a thread about "I do not know how to play please change the game so that I can always feel like I am winning"

This is a thread about making some suggestions to render the combat area of the game more tactical in nature and less like a Tank/DSP/Healer Fantasy game.

To make it more consistent with Star Trek Lore, and combat between ships rather than Paladins Rogues and Priests dressed as Starships.

And following quite some experimenting in game, and some thought, I think that if there is actually interest to evaluate tweaking the game or changing its combat approach to make something that more Star trek fans (who may "not get it" at this time), actually relate more to, then, the starting point of such a change would be the BO's.

And one of the ways to start thinking about how to make the combat more Ship/Gear centric rather than Ability Centric, is to actually ask the question, "How can we make BO's universal in all ships"...and then evaluate what other areas of combat would require to be rethought, and in the end maybe come up with a new system that appeals to more people and is more consistent with how Star Trek itself has existed for the past 40 years, with all its Series, Movies, technical manuals, Pen and paper Simulation and RPG games, thousands of Books Cartoons etc etc etc.

So please, come back to the actual topic, and drop the "L2P rhetoric" direction that you both are talking about at this point, this discussion has to do with the Combat System's design, not how people play the game.

In this particular area of the Forums that is about BO and their Powers, please instead try to immagine if BO's were to become universal, and assuming necessary changes were also made to the rest of the systems what kinds of Powers would you rather belong to Ships and what kinds of Powers would you rather belong to Officers.

An example: In Star Trek all ships have a tractor Beam, this functionality is part of the Ship and its availability does not belong to the bridge Officer, all Star Ship Personnel would know how to operate a console to make it work.

This is what this thread is about, if you have something to contribute to it by all means you are more than welcome, if not, spare us your negativity.

[Archived Post]

This is a thread about making some suggestions to render the combat area of the game more tactical in nature and less like a Tank/DSP/Healer Fantasy game.

To make it more consistent with Star Trek Lore, and combat between ships rather than Paladins Rogues and Priests dressed as Starships.


How is ship "classes" not Star Trek Cannon?

I didn't see the defiant out running sensor scans on the badlands. You never say a Klingon Battle cruiser out running flower picking missions. Federation Sci Vessels where not sent to the front lines alone. I'm sorry but your arguments are based on some idea that Star trek didn't have classes. When STO cannon is clearly full of ship classes and even Captain classes. And as warlord was pointing out... what would you rather have EVERYone in the game running the exact same set of skill. That is silly. Universal stations are not needed on any of the federation ships... Cryptic has provided a Fed ship for almost every layout. IF you don't like the layout on the ship you are playing switch to another.

[Archived Post]

double posted sorry.

[Archived Post]

An example: In Star Trek all ships have a tractor Beam, this functionality is part of the Ship and its availability does not belong to the bridge Officer, all Star Ship Personnel would know how to operate a console to make it work.

This is what this thread is about, if you have something to contribute to it by all means you are more than welcome, if not, spare us your negativity.

Sure you have a point... however this is a video game and what you are suggesting is silly. Everyone gets a tractror everyone gets the tractor counter... ohhh how challanging.

Not trying to be negative just giving everyone the same skills is a bad idea for game play. I don't see how that could be any other way.

[Archived Post]

Thank you both for your comments but I am sorry to say for the most part are irrelevant.

You are both making an assumption, you think that I am making the suggestions that i do in this thread because i am having some difficulty with the game. I actually play on Elite Difficulty most of the time now that we have it.

And, I have leveled through PvP mainly too, I still have plenty of lower level Missions Patrols and Story that i have not completed yet and doing them slowly.

So, this is not a thread about "I do not know how to play please change the game so that I can always feel like I am winning"

This is a thread about making some suggestions to render the combat area of the game more tactical in nature and less like a Tank/DSP/Healer Fantasy game.

To make it more consistent with Star Trek Lore, and combat between ships rather than Paladins Rogues and Priests dressed as Starships.

And following quite some experimenting in game, and some thought, I think that if there is actually interest to evaluate tweaking the game or changing its combat approach to make something that more Star trek fans (who may "not get it" at this time), actually relate more to, then, the starting point of such a change would be the BO's.

And one of the ways to start thinking about how to make the combat more Ship/Gear centric rather than Ability Centric, is to actually ask the question, "How can we make BO's universal in all ships"...and then evaluate what other areas of combat would require to be rethought, and in the end maybe come up with a new system that appeals to more people and is more consistent with how Star Trek itself has existed for the past 40 years, with all its Series, Movies, technical manuals, Pen and paper Simulation and RPG games, thousands of Books Cartoons etc etc etc.

So please, come back to the actual topic, and drop the "L2P rhetoric" direction that you both are talking about at this point, this discussion has to do with the Combat System's design, not how people play the game.

In this particular area of the Forums that is about BO and their Powers, please instead try to immagine if BO's were to become universal, and assuming necessary changes were also made to the rest of the systems what kinds of Powers would you rather belong to Ships and what kinds of Powers would you rather belong to Officers.

An example: In Star Trek all ships have a tractor Beam, this functionality is part of the Ship and its availability does not belong to the bridge Officer, all Star Ship Personnel would know how to operate a console to make it work.

This is what this thread is about, if you have something to contribute to it by all means you are more than welcome, if not, spare us your negativity.

Are you so important that you feel no need to read what another took time to write?

Are you so selfserving that you mistook my attempt to bring another poster closer to accord to be me saying learn to play?

Just a suggestion here but how about you show me the respect I show you and actually read what I wrote instead of skimming it? Great way to alienate a potential ally.

Forgive me if I wax crass but I sense you feel it is fine to patronize me...

So lets see because I don't agree with you and immediately blow lemon scented sunshine up your ass. Because you feel that a low born, knuckle dragger like me cannot possibly understand the high musings of an intellectual superior like yourself that you can just skim the words I write and without weight of thought dismiss them as "learn to play" rhetoric?

Foamy the Squirrel was right about forums (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c211yCCZdJY).

[Archived Post]

Piwright42, my reply was more aimed at AKfourtyseven in relation to my "L2P" comments.

It was aimed to everyone in relation to the direction of the topic, I agree I may have been somwhat assertive in it, yet sometimes it is needed I believe.

Nevertheless, it is funny you are posting the Squirel, because, you are the one that takes it personally (thinking that you are being patronized and not respected) not me.

Now, Husanak, the uniqueness does not always come from Shoe Boxing everything, the uniqueness comes also from the Players, ourselves, because each and every one of us are unique we have a different style of play different preferences.

That said, I am not sure where you see me saying that Ship Classes are not Trek? When I am suggesting a system that is more consistent with Trek, and anyone that has even a slight interest in the technology of Trek, know that there are many different classes of Ships, mainly because Roddenberry himself based his inspiration on WWII Naval Combat, but also because there has been years and years and tons of documentation on it.

Gunboats, Scouts, Destroyers, Frigates, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Battleships, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and fightercraft, blockade runners, are all Ship classes of Trek tech Lore.

But that is not what we are directly questioning here, what we are questioning and trying to discuss is the way that all this technology of the StarShips of Star Trek is represented in this game.

I think the way that Ships and their Crews are represented in the game could be more consistent mechanically to Star Trek Technology as has been established in the past 40 years rather than a Fantasy game.

Currently the system is not based on the technological aspect of the Ships themselves but rather on the BO's and their Powers, which creates inconsistencies.

Like the example of the Tractor Beam, which is supposed to be a Ship Equipment, it is an inconsistency, according to Trek Tech Lore, all ships are equipped with one, it is part of standard operations.

Also all ships equipped with Phasers have various modes of operations same as with Torpedo Launchers.

That being said there are several types of Phasers, and several types of Torpedo Launchers, some can launch Spreads of various yields some cannot.

The torpedo launcher equipped at the top of the DS-9 Runabouts is not the same as the one equipped on board a Galaxy ship or a Miranda Class ship.

So Ships, and also the rendition of their capabilities and operations are inconsistent with Star Trek in this game in most respects expect a couple which includes the Looks.

Each ship has different complement of Torpedo loads as well, these are a finite ammunition in the Trek Lore and not unlimited as they are in the game, this is another inconsistency.

(Mind you this is something to think about if we are to ever have some type of proper manufacturing (crafting) in this game, making torpedoes is a fine example provided the player needs to replenish their load, and how many they can have depends on each class of ship too, which in and of itself makes each class unique in that regard).

In Trek Lore all Ships Classes are not equal, each class is unique...so how can you say that I am proposing to make them all equal and the same by proposing to make them more consistent with Trek Tech Lore, in which these are already unique?

[Archived Post]

Piwright42, my reply was more aimed at AKfourtyseven in relation to my "L2P" comments.

It was aimed to everyone in relation to the direction of the topic, I agree I may have been somwhat assertive in it, yet sometimes it is needed I believe.

Nevertheless, it is funny you are posting the Squirel, because, you are the one that takes it personally (thinking that you are being patronized and not respected) not me.

Now, Husanak, the uniqueness does not always come from Shoe Boxing everything, the uniqueness comes also from the Players, ourselves, because each and every one of us are unique we have a different style of play different preferences.

That said, I am not sure where you see me saying that Ship Classes are not Trek? When I am suggesting a system that is more consistent with Trek, and anyone that has even a slight interest in the technology of Trek, know that there are many different classes of Ships, mainly because Roddenberry himself based his inspiration on WWII Naval Combat, but also because there has been years and years and tons of documentation on it.

Gunboats, Scouts, Destroyers, Frigates, Cruisers, Battlecruisers, Battleships, Dreadnoughts, Carriers, and fightercraft, blockade runners, are all Ship classes of Trek tech Lore.

But that is not what we are directly questioning here, what we are questioning and trying to discuss is the way that all this technology of the StarShips of Star Trek is represented in this game.

I think the way that Ships and their Crews are represented in the game could be more consistent mechanically to Star Trek Technology as has been established in the past 40 years rather than a Fantasy game.

Currently the system is not based on the technological aspect of the Ships themselves but rather on the BO's and their Powers, which creates inconsistencies.

Like the example of the Tractor Beam, which is supposed to be a Ship Equipment, it is an inconsistency, according to Trek Tech Lore, all ships are equipped with one, it is part of standard operations.

Also all ships equipped with Phasers have various modes of operations same as with Torpedo Launchers.

That being said there are several types of Phasers, and several types of Torpedo Launchers, some can launch Spreads of various yields some cannot.

The torpedo launcher equipped at the top of the DS-9 Runabouts is not the same as the one equipped on board a Galaxy ship or a Miranda Class ship.

So Ships, and also the rendition of their capabilities and operations are inconsistent with Star Trek in this game in most respects expect a couple which includes the Looks.

Each ship has different complement of Torpedo loads as well, these are a finite ammunition in the Trek Lore and not unlimited as they are in the game, this is another inconsistency.

(Mind you this is something to think about if we are to ever have some type of proper manufacturing (crafting) in this game, making torpedoes is a fine example provided the player needs to replenish their load, and how many they can have depends on each class of ship too, which in and of itself makes each class unique in that regard).

In Trek Lore all Ships Classes are not equal, each class is unique...so how can you say that I am proposing to make them all equal and the same by proposing to make them more consistent with Trek Tech Lore, in which these are already unique?

Take it personally? You hijacked my first post to your thread here and attempted to subvert it to better suit your agenda. You made it to agree with you when it never did. Too assertive indeed.

You have my opinion on the matter. I see no reason for futher discourse on the topic. I do not agree, the officer stations as they sit now add more character to the ships are they are.

[Archived Post]

Take it personally? You hijacked my first post to your thread here and attempted to subvert it to better suit your agenda. You made it to agree with you when it never did. Too assertive indeed.

You have my opinion on the matter. I see no reason for futher discourse on the topic. I do not agree, the officer stations as they sit now add more character to the ships are they are.

Oh common, relax, I am not here to play Politics and conduct Diplomacy, we are not "in game". Just here to shoot some ideas around, discuss or brainstorm between players.

If you do not agree it is your right, this is not about right or wrong, you are entitled to your own perspective.

Cheers!

[Archived Post]

In Trek Lore all Ships Classes are not equal, each class is unique...so how can you say that I am proposing to make them all equal and the same by proposing to make them more consistent with Trek Tech Lore, in which these are already unique?

While I agree that the Dev's did not adhere close enough to canon in diversifying the vessels of Star Trek in both faction and race characteristics, I still contend that the use of U-slots on all vessels will do nothing but erode what existing diversity we barely posses as it is.

[Archived Post]

Ok, I'm going to inject my two cents worth here. I posted something similar a long time ago and was essentially told to pound sand. But, I'll try it again:

I believe all ships should have universal bridge officer slots, because it allows for more customization of the bridge layout. Now before everyone starts whining about how this makes the ship nothing more than a skin, here is where the real fix needs to be applied:

All Galaxy-classes should have the ability to saucer seperate.

The Nebula-class evidently has some specialized tachyon detection toy (I haven't used it so I can't talk too much about it) but it allows you to detect cloaked ships.

The only thing the Prometheous-class had going for it in the show was Multi-vector attack mode, and you can bet sooner or later that will make its way into the game as well.

My point being, with all of the different types of ships in Trek lore, the ships themselves should have more specialized ablities, beyond merely being a cruiser, escort or science vessel and not just at rear-admiral level but as a fucntion of the type of vessel they are.

That would eliminate the ships merely being skins as they each have some kind of unique ability.

Universal bridge stations on Federation ships are cannon. The Federation celebrates infinite diversity in infinite combinations, the Klingons on the other hand are a very orderly and strictly regimented species. So when the Feds get stuck with set bridge terminals and the klingons get free reign to place anyone wherever they want, I cry FOUL!

Make all terminals universal, it forces captains to think beyond, this guy is flying a galaxy-class so his highest ranking tactical officer is only a lieutenant. The enemy commander should NOT know that.

What he should know is that my Galaxy-class may well seperate and come at him from more than one spot and he should plan accordingly.

[Archived Post]

[QUOTE=tom_riker01;3135845]
All Galaxy-classes should have the ability to saucer seperate.

The Nebula-class evidently has some specialized tachyon detection toy (I haven't used it so I can't talk too much about it) but it allows you to detect cloaked ships.

The only thing the Prometheous-class had going for it in the show was Multi-vector attack mode, and you can bet sooner or later that will make its way into the game as well. So all ships should now have a "Special Ability" as well as Universal slots? Why not ask for insta-kill buttons while your at it? Or Meta-Phasic shielding? Or easy anti-cloaking at your fingertips?

Universal bridge stations on Federation ships are cannon. The Federation celebrates infinite diversity in infinite combinations, the Klingons on the other hand are a very orderly and strictly regimented species. So when the Feds get stuck with set bridge terminals and the klingons get free reign to place anyone wherever they want, I cry FOUL! If the BO slots are universal in canon, why is Data up front at one terminal post doing science stuff, Wesley at another piloting, Worf at another doing tactical and Geordi over on the side doing engineering from the same locations every episode? Seems they all had designated locations to me.

[Archived Post]

all uni stations, good idea. as long as you get all uni consoles to complement the powers. :cool:

[Archived Post]

This is actually an interesting topic but I have a different idea how I would handle things. I'm fine with the stations as they are, but there are a few things I'd like to see added to every ship almost, automatically. First off, Targeting Subsystem is so normal in Star Trek, that you see it almost any episode that ship combat is involved. They're always targetting one of the many subsystems. I would probably make this a standard feature and part of the ship. I'd make higher versions either for science ships inherently, or to ask you to use a BOff skill for it. Likewise Tractor beams are standard fare apart of almost every ship including the runabout. It would be nice to see them like this in the game as well.

That being said, I'd like to see a little more variance in what Bridge Officers can do that four abilities. If you ever change a bridge officer while flying around in space you'll notice there's a pause before the change actually happens. At least its always like this when I do the Infected task force. I wouldn't mind being able to buy other abilities for my bridge officers that are 'back up training' that you can hot swap, in a manner, like kits in space. I'm not suggesting kits though, but just rather being able to swap certain abilities to represent reconfiguration and changing of a tactic. Somehow, I think Spock knew more than just: Hazard Emitters, Science Team II, Tractor Beam, and Tyken's Rift as his entire body of knowledge. That's all I'm getting at.

Also, as a captain if we know and can train the Tier 3 skill? why can't we train 1 and 2? That would also be quite nice to do.

[Archived Post]

Hello all, :cool:

I thank everyone that has read and replied with your own thoughts in this Thread. I would like now to bring the discussion a step further, so permit me to post some ideas on a tentative system that I think would give more flexibility to the players and permit for all ships to have Universal BO's, plus bring it closer to Trek.

So without further ado.

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

Universal BO's & Flexibility

The basic Idea is inspired actually from exciting mechanics of the game right now, it will become clear as you read further. As explained during the initial discussion the suggestion assumed that some systems connected presently to the functionality and implementation of BO's would also alter in some ways in order to make this possible, and in what follows I shall try to give examples in order to represent these ideas.

The biggest reason why just making all BO universal would not work has been actually several aspects but related to one another.

1st - It would affect game Balance
2nd - (related to 1) It would alter the role of Ships
3rd - (related to 2 ) Ships would lose their uniqueness.

So first things first,

Ships & ship equipment functionality

The core of the idea consist of making a list of Powers that are normally associated to Ship and Ship equipment functionality from the current BO powers.

For example, Tractor Beam, High yield Torpedo, Rapid Fire, Attack Pattern Omega, Engineering team, Emergency Power to Shields etc.

And then associating these powers properly as part of the Ship standard Functionality and Ship Equipment that the player can change such as Torpedo launchers, Arrays, Turrets Cannons Shields, Impulse Engines Deflector Dishes and Consoles.

Also, associate levels of Powers to Character Rank as well as Ship Design.
For example:

- All ships will by default have a Tractor Beam and the player will have a power in their Power Tray to activate it on all ships.
- All ships equipped with a torpedo launcher will have access to torpedo related powers, such as HY and Spread.
- All ships will have all types of Engineering Teams
- All ships will be able to call upon Emergency Power to various Systems
- etc.

However this will depend on Rank and the Ship as well, so at Ensign We do not have access to these Functionality, and then at Lieutenant we get Spread 1, at Lt.Commander Spread 2, at Captain spread 3, while we could get HY1 at Lt.Commander etc.

Up to what level certain powers go will depend on ships and their role and will constitute ship Uniqueness.

In short, what powers are available to a ship depends on the type of equipment we outfit that ship with in priority then depending on Ship Design and Role and Rank. This is the basic principle which by now you may see that it is inspired from how ground Combat Kits and Weapons work. Each Kit has its own abilities and each weapon gives you abilities depending on its type and role. So the same approach for Space as well.

This also means that slight changes may need to be done to the UI in order to have access to this functionality is a easily accessible way on a per Division focus, Engineering, Tactical and Science.

Finally Consoles, in addition to their standard Effects could also provide some specific functionality, this permits for a greater diversity and rewards.

BO Powers

So by now you maybe thinking, "ok but wouldn't that destroy BO's, and not have a reason to have them?"

Quite the contrary, this will make BO's equally important, the only difference is that your options for action as a StarShip Captain is no longer limited to a few select Powers and Functionality. But BO's are equally important.

The approach does not require any changes to the current skill system, we still put points for our captains the same way as we Rank up, and at certain levels we will still be able to train BO's.

"But train them on what? You just removed all their powers!", you may say.

We train them Specializations.

For instance we can Train a Tactical BO, Tactical Team Specialization, what this will do is give a bonus to the effects of the Power, which is available by default on all ships.

So by default Tactical Teams have an effect as is now for Tactical team 1 for instance, but if you have a Tactical BO with Tactical Team Specialization Grade A, then the power receives a +1 to all effects a reduction in cool-down etc etc.

or another example and since all ships have a Tractor beam not all ships may have a BO who is specialized in the use of Tractor beams so if you opt to specialize of of your BO's to use Tractor beams your Tractor beam will perfom better than another player's ship in which no BO has been specialized for it.

How many Specializations a BO can have depends on their Rank. So an Ensign BO can have one specialization, a Lieutenant 2, Lt. Commander 3 and a Commander 4.

This means you could enhance selectively a certain functionality of your ship but at the expense of others. yet it does not limit you on what options and abilities you have in every ship as a Captain, what limits these depends on the Ship Design and Role.

Thus, you are now free to open up Ship BO positions to become Universal.

Special powers

Special Abilities such as SNB, RSP, Tyken's Rift, Gravity Well etc. Are not abilities associated with normal operation of ships, and are not specializations either. These are in this case Randomly available periodically.

On every engagement a roll is made periodically and from a poll of Special abilities one per BO becomes available randomly depending on what type of BO's you have, so the chance of what abilities pop up depends on the type of BO's you have as part of your bridge crew.

Example:

Lets say you had a tactical Commander, and a Lt Engineer, 2 Lt Science and a Ensign Science, during combat they may suggest Attack Pattern Omega for the tactical officer, RSP for the Engineer, Viral matrix from a Scientist, Gravity well from another and finally Photonic Shockwave for another.

Depending on the situation as Captain you opt to choose using Photonic Shock Wave, at that point all other choices are discarded, and the roll process begins again randomly offering choices following a period of time.

Not unlike when Captain Picard asks the Bridge crew for options or alternatives in a given situation and Data or Riker or Laforge come up with various suggestions and then Picard chooses the one he feels would be more appropriate for the situation.

This at the same time eliminates cookie cut tactics in game, and makes the game play more consistent with the Trek Experience.

It can even go a step further and be combined with a BO progression system where BO's evolve as well and with time get better at doing certain things or their suggestions become more powerful.

A step even further

There can actually be Functionality associated with the differentsections of ships, if you choose this Saucer section it can have some variation from the same Class of ship Saucer variation two. The Akira and the Oslo could be both escorts of the same rank but with different Ship Specs, for instance one could be more beam Based while the other more Torpedo based...and thus more consistent with Trek.


Conclusion

In conclusion, Ships retain their primary role, and can be designed to be closer in capability to Trek.

Example the Miranda can actually have a Torpedo Pod, with 2 launchers able to shoot two torpedoes either fore or aft or one for and one aft, at close intervals.

Each ship design can have different characteristics, and each ship design can have proper Bridge Crews from the get go. Like even the Miranda could have 5 BO's all at ensign, and this would not provide it with more Powers than it could have as per its design specs, and thus be more consistent with Trek as well, and all positions can be Universal, at the choice of the captain.

This way possibilities open themselves for the game. For instance there can be a greater customization of Equipment, Consoles etc. Specially combined with a Crafting system, there is like that many different things to craft and customize.

All in all, with such an approach, BO's can be Universal and each player as Captain can choose their BO configuration as well as customize the functionality of their ships according to their style of play. Plus it is all more consistent with Trek.

That is about it.

[Archived Post]

What did the black cat look like? Was it identical to the first one you saw, maybe the same cat?

Why cant each ship have its own unique cew with their own abilities??? I should be able to pick a ship with its own crew and not spend time shifting and shuffling people around.. it reality a ship has its own crew not the ones you bring with them.....

[Archived Post]

Why cant each ship have its own unique cew with their own abilities??? I should be able to pick a ship with its own crew and not spend time shifting and shuffling people around.. it reality a ship has its own crew not the ones you bring with them.....

This is not reality and STO is not a simulator.
In reality, yes, you would get command of a vessel and its would have its own crew already assigned and aware of thier assingments.
In STO you have numerous crew that follows you through your career and you can place them where you wish according to the design/layout of the ship you choose and its classification.
The use of universal commander/LTcommander slots on each vessel ingame would erode the diversification of the said vessel by the classification of CRuiser/Escort/Science.

[Archived Post]

if every ship has uni stations what will each ship lose to bring it back inline with the bop or would the bop gain an extra BO station increased hull and shields and more consols and extra wpn slots

[Archived Post]

This is not reality and STO is not a simulator.
In reality, yes, you would get command of a vessel and its would have its own crew already assigned and aware of thier assingments.
In STO you have numerous crew that follows you through your career and you can place them where you wish according to the design/layout of the ship you choose and its classification.
The use of universal commander/LTcommander slots on each vessel ingame would erode the diversification of the said vessel by the classification of CRuiser/Escort/Science.

Well I beleive I supplied some Ideas to avoid eroding as you put it the uniqueness and roles of the ships.

The way i see it if the system is to become more in Line with Trek, then the reality of Trek is what matters, and the system can be made to to reflect the Star Trek Reality even if that reality is Sci-Fi compared to "the" reality and it would not be a simulator.

[Archived Post]

Well I beleive I supplied some Ideas to avoid eroding as you put it the uniqueness and roles of the ships.

The way i see it if the system is to become more in Line with Trek, then the reality of Trek is what matters, and the system can be made to to reflect the Star Trek Reality even if that reality is Sci-Fi compared to "the" reality and it would not be a simulator.

The reality of Trek was not a constant reality and tended to change from episode to episode depending on the needs of the production crew more than most may realize.

Your ideas on certain power being assigned to all ships was interesting and I can see the logic in it, but your ideas on BO powers is still aligned its self to Universal slot usage and the idea of some BO powers being random when asked for seemed way more complictated and uneeded.

[Archived Post]

The reality of Trek was not a constant reality and tended to change from episode to episode depending on the needs of the production crew more than most may realize.

Your ideas on certain power being assigned to all ships was interesting and I can see the logic in it, but your ideas on BO powers is still aligned its self to Universal slot usage and the idea of some BO powers being random when asked for seemed way more complictated and uneeded.

Yes the whole Idea here is to permit more flexibility to players, if you want to take your tactical crew and fly a Cruiser you could. You would be enhancing the tactical attributes of the Cruiser without however changing its primary role.

Right now however the current design imposes this via inflexibility, You have to have an engineering crew if you are flying a Cruiser.

More than that your cruiser will change role if you were to replace its crew with anything other than an engineering crew.

So the caveat is two fold. And I think that making the change to have abilities/powers associated with Ship equipment like it is with Kits and Weapons on the Ground solves both.

****

Now, on the Special Powers random system, this I added while I was typing, in order to keep those special powers in the game, and not suggest eliminating them all together.

But another approach could be that these powers come by default to BO's and since all other powers comes with Equipment and in relation to a Given Ship's role.

The Random system is optional, I just had that episode in mind with Enterprise D caught in a Causality Loop, where Picard was asking for Options from his crew, Riker suggested the Decompression of teh Shuttle Bay while Data suggested the use of teh Tractor Beam...these were random options to Picard and he chose one.

So it is a kind of a Mini game within the wider game, yet it does not have to be like that.

As long as the use of all these Special powers becomes rare or not at all in Combat, then Combat would be more Trek Like.

It is the amount of Crowd Control happening in the game, with mesmerizes and roots and snares and disarms etc that makes it feel like Paladins and rogues and healers dressed as starships, not the fact that there is a trinity of Roles.