Future KDF ships

[Archived Post]

I've been contemplating where we go with future ships for our faction especially since we got the B'rel and Vor'cha retrofits.

Now I'm using the following bits of logic -

New ships sell in the C-store and make Cryptic money so we will continue to see new ships
There is possibly 1 Cryptic original KDF design in the pipline based on the KDF ship poll
The Feds will see at least four more ships (Vulcan, Andorian, Oberth and Ambassador) And possibly the new Enterprise F fan design ship.
Dsthal mentioned that they would like to make more Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan ships


A few more things that I think are possible if not likely. The Vulcan and Andorian ships will at least have a T-5 version. I believe this because it will bring the Science and Escort classes closer to the Cruiser class. If the same logic holds true than I see both the Oberth and the Ambassador also having T-5 variants.

While I want to see more Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan designs, I also want the KDF to have more Klingon ships, since it is after all the KDF faction.

With that in mind we are in a bit of a pickle for canon Klingon ships. Clearly there is room for a K't'inga retrofit. These things were seeing service in the Dominion War and had been upgraded for that, so I don't see this as too far fetched.

The K'vort is another option, but problematic as it seems to be the designation of one type of BoP plus it was described as larger in an alternate timeline (Yesterday's Enterprise). I guess this could be BoP retrofit number 2? Considering there are currently 5 Fed T-5 Cruisers with the possibility of 2 more in the pipeline. I don't see having multiple (if different) BoP's as an impossibility. If so we could add a T-5 D-12 to the mix.

Given that we have the Galaxy X it is possible we could see the voDleH Negh'Var variant from "All Good Things" or possibly the variant from Endgame.

There is also the idea of making a "retro" version of the D-5 battle cruiser seen in Enterprise, much like the Raptor it would be a revision of an old design.

Now I could be wrong and we are reaching the end of the current cycle of new ships, but I think eventually because of the revenue they generate we are going to see new ships coming, so that begs the question with the slim pickings from above where does the KDF go for their future ships?

[Archived Post]

A cruiser model BoP (we know they didn't only exist in the "Yesterday's Enterprise" alternate universe) would be nice.
Seeing it in a sway similar to the Excelsior in a T3 and a T5 retrofit version would fill out the shiplist much more.

One of the "Ask Cryptic" editions stated they'd consider a T5 Raptor Retrofit, personally I'd like a T5 version of the Samraw repurposed as a military scout (note: scout does not mean science ship in the sense of research but in the sense of electronic warfare) no matter how improbable it is that this will happen.

Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the D-5, as a new ship in the way the Raptor is a new ship (it grew from 140 meters in Enterprise to 240 meters in STO so it must be a new ship) it could be either an alternative skin for the Ka'tanco or even better replace the Ka'tanco altogether.
The Ka'tanco, not looking very cruiserish in my opinion, could become another escort, perhaps some kind of destroyer.

The Chancellor Class from the Gorkon Novels might be possible considering the Federation is going to get its second pocket books novel-based ship (The Vesta)
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Qang_class
but then again it is questionable whether they'll bother with this given the lower interest in the Chancellor class than in the Vesta.

We could certainly use a ship based on the Orion Interceptor from Enterprise,

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Orion_interceptor

another possible destroyer.

[Archived Post]

D5 Battlecruiser
22nd Century BoP
Augment BoP
Enterprise Era Battlecruiser
Goroth's starship
Some of the anti-human faction Xindi ships

would be nice.

[Archived Post]

This is the Klingon faction alright. This also means that we do not need to have a Fed-like garage of over 9000 different classes just for the heck of it. The KDF kept using old and trusted designs because Klingons love to preserve resources. Churning out new designs just like that is attacking a fundamental part of our style. In a way, we already have way too many Klingon ships, if you compare it to how many different Klingon designs showed up throughout the entire history of Trek!

That, and the Klingon faction is much more of an multi-species than the more unified Federation. We need more Gorn, Orion and Nausicaan ships because Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans are not even supposed to fly the same ships as Klingons do. In the sense of the story, they are not KDF officers but members of organizations allied to the KDF (Gorn military, Syndicate cartel fleets, Nausicaan merc bands).

Also: No to a "BoP Cruiser". I do not ever want to see this (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/801/bopsize.jpg) happen in the game. Just because some Trek FX artists fu**ed up with scaling the ships appropriately doesn't mean STO has to follow suit. Otherwise we'll have the Feds requesting the 200 meter version of the Defiant next. :p

[Archived Post]

Well, you might want to remember that no matter how incompetent Vulcan Intel on the Klingons was ("Klingons don't use escape pods" comes to mind) T'Pol said "There are many classes of ships", in fact it was so many she could not remember them all, not even the contemporary ones.
So we should actually see more than the two or three we usually got per series because the VFX guys felt it was more important to add another type of shuttlecraft or tricorder for Starfleet that another Klingon ship.

[Archived Post]

meh. i don't really want more ships. What I DO want is a way to upgrade all the old ships to T5+. Give the ability to add abilities, BO slots, Consols using the Crafting skill.

Why would that be cool? Well, one of the reasons why the BOP is so hard to kill is because all BOP's are different. Nobody knows what to expect when going head to head with one because of the BO Layout being universal.
As a KDF, if you are going up against MOST fed ships there are usually one of two configurations.
Now, if ALL ships upgraded to something that is not preplanned, it would add an element of suprise when pvping.

All ships have the ability to upgrade ONCE to certain skills.
All Cruisers can have cloak, or a shuttle bay, or a repair platform or something.
All cloakable ships have the ability to get battle cloak or better armor, or shield power.
And
Extra Universal ensign BO slot. But one of the upgrades could make it a higher rank

That HAS to be the way to go for the future. There is only so many ship models out there.

[Archived Post]

T'Pol said "There are many classes of ships""Many" compared to Starfleet or the Vulcan forces, which at that time both had a whopping two different types of ships. STO already is beyond 18 different Klingon classes. We're not Starfleet! :eek:

[Archived Post]

Well I think we will see more ships in our stable regardless of how many we now have. They will not be as numerous or as frequent as the Fed side, but they will come. I see enough Guramba's (and not just the same player) in KDF space to know that Cryptic is making a nice profit off of ship sales.

Given that we are the KDF faction I'd like to see more Klingon ships. I'm partial to a K't'inga retrofit since it would suit my Kor Clone character nicely when he hits end game :D

[Archived Post]

Would also like to have a KDF ship like they did on the Fed side using the Excellesor for T3 and Refit version for T5.

The K'vort can be a T3 and have the K'vort-cha as the refit version for T5, having it as a Tac/Eng Crusier and adding the phasic shield inhibitor (that allowed it to penetrate shields and even the hulls of enemy starships).

The K'vort-cha is consider a medium/heavy crusier, depending on which site you check out. And we know the the K'vort was a BOP type class.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/K'vort_Cha_class

http://planetside.firenebula.com/sotf.php?id=546

Also in the T5 K'vort-cha refit, they could use the same B.O. setup as the Excellesor refit or change the Eng. B.O.'s layot to Tac B.O.'s.

[Archived Post]

Well I think we will see more ships in our stable regardless of how many we now have. They will not be as numerous or as frequent as the Fed side, but they will come. I see enough Guramba's (and not just the same player) in KDF space to know that Cryptic is making a nice profit off of ship sales.Of course. But why would it need to be Klingon ships and not something more appropriate?

We have way too many Klingon ships already. We have way too few Orion/Gorn/Nausicaan models. I'm not sure what should be accomplished by yet another dozen random Cryptic-designed Klingon ships thrown into the mass we already have - as much as I do agree that the alternate Vor'cha skin or the Hegh'ta are awesome.

The K'vort is whatever someone wants her to be, just like the B'rel. If you go by hard canon, they both have the same size. If you go by soft canon, there are versions of the K'vort which are a mere 130 meter long. Frankly, I just can't find any appeal in a weird cruiser-sized BoP hybrid, it's nothing more than an error made by the show's poor scaling (an ongoing problem - see the Defiant). I've always been of the opinion that they should have just renamed the Refit-B'rel a K'vort-class BoP and leave it at that.

[Archived Post]

Of course. But why would it need to be Klingon ships and not something more appropriate?

We have way too many Klingon ships already. We have way too few Orion/Gorn/Nausicaan models. I'm not sure what should be accomplished by yet another dozen random Cryptic-designed Klingon ships thrown into the mass we already have - as much as I do agree that the alternate Vor'cha skin or the Hegh'ta are awesome.

The K'vort is whatever someone wants her to be, just like the B'rel. If you go by hard canon, they both have the same size. If you go by soft canon, there are versions of the K'vort which are a mere 130 meter long. Frankly, I just can't find any appeal in a weird cruiser-sized BoP hybrid, it's nothing more than an error made by the show's poor scaling (an ongoing problem - see the Defiant). I've always been of the opinion that they should have just renamed the Refit-B'rel a K'vort-class BoP and leave it at that.

I'm not saying that there should be no new Orion/Gorn/Nausicaan ships, but I also don't think they should out number the KDF ships. I think there are potentially 3 KDF canon ships they can retrofit or redesign for T5 ships. (K't'inga retrofit, All Good Things Negh'Var and a third T5 BoP)

I think they could also add a Orion Sci and Escort, a Gorn Cruiser and Escort and a Nausicaan Sci and Cruiser to the mix to give one of each ship path for all of the allied species. But giving them more I believe would dilute the sense that this is a Klingon led endeavor.

If the K'vort is added it should simply be a BoP in my mind, with some cosmetic differences and some new special ability or a different mix of BO slots (possibly the first non-universal BoP?)

I could go for maybe one or two more Cryptic designs. If Carriers didn't raise the ire of everyone, I'd say this is the area for Cryptic to add new designs, but sadly they can't seem to please anyone with the Carriers for so many reasons.

[Archived Post]

I think they could also add a Orion Sci and Escort, a Gorn Cruiser and Escort and a Nausicaan Sci and Cruiser to the mix to give one of each ship path for all of the allied species. But giving them more I believe would dilute the sense that this is a Klingon led endeavor.Well, the Klingon faction will always be a Klingon-led endeavour, regardless of what players roll with. If you limit the ship selection this is really only glossing over the issue - it doesn't change that you will still have Orions, Nausicaans and Gorn flying Klingon ships, which is more wrong than them flying the ships they would have brought into this alliance in the first place. You already have NPC Gorn battlefleets dominating entire sectors, yet the only way player characters could possibly claim to be part of that is a single tier 5 ship.

I think every tier needs alternative ship costumes, so that people who play characters of the respective factions are able to do so, instead of forcing them to command vessels they might not even have access to. The way STO handles the fundamental differences between the Klingon Alliance and Starfleet is currently rather poor.

To explain, this means a minimum of two costumes for the entire tier, not that each species would necessarily get something for every ship category. They would rotate, so that every few tiers you could get something for your chosen species+ship type combo and otherwise be forced to either stick to your old ship or use a design from a different species. Birds-of-Prey and Carriers don't get racial costumes as these ship types are unique to the Klingons.

Example:
Tier 2: Orion Corvette (Orion Raptor), Vishap Frigate (Gorn Battlecruiser)
Tier 3: Syphon Frigate (Nausicaan Raptor), Brigand Cruiser (Orion Battlecruiser)
Tier 4: Destroyer Escort, (Nausicaan Raptor), Draguas Cruiser (Gorn Battlecruiser)

The distribution of "costume options" is based on Nausicaan mercenary bands relying on small and nimble ships, so they get two Raptors. Gorn get two battlecruisers, because after the KDF they're the second biggest military force in the Alliance. Also, the Draguas will have more firepower than the Orion Brigand, whereas the smaller Vishap is basically a "frigate" with cruiser stats.

If the K'vort is added it should simply be a BoP in my mind, with some cosmetic differences and some new special ability or a different mix of BO slots (possibly the first non-universal BoP?) But we already have two "K'vort style" BoP's. Also, any cosmetic differences would differentiate from the canon model, which was identical to the B'rel ...
Baaah I need to stop, I suppose I'm really just not a fan of the whole K'vort scale thing. :D

[Archived Post]

Well, the Klingon faction will always be a Klingon-led endeavour, regardless of what players roll with. If you limit the ship selection this is really only glossing over the issue - it doesn't change that you will still have Orions, Nausicaans and Gorn flying Klingon ships, which is more wrong than them flying the ships they would have brought into this alliance in the first place. You already have NPC Gorn battlefleets dominating entire sectors, yet the only way player characters could possibly claim to be part of that is a single tier 5 ship.

I think every tier needs alternative ship costumes, so that people who play characters of the respective factions are able to do so, instead of forcing them to command vessels they might not even have access to. The way STO handles the fundamental differences between the Klingon Alliance and Starfleet is currently rather poor.

To explain, this means a minimum of two costumes for the entire tier, not that each species would necessarily get something for every ship category. They would rotate, so that every few tiers you could get something for your chosen species+ship type combo and otherwise be forced to either stick to your old ship or use a design from a different species. Birds-of-Prey and Carriers don't get racial costumes as these ship types are unique to the Klingons.

Example:
Tier 2: Orion Corvette (Orion Raptor), Vishap Frigate (Gorn Battlecruiser)
Tier 3: Syphon Frigate (Nausicaan Raptor), Brigand Cruiser (Orion Battlecruiser)
Tier 4: Destroyer Escort, (Nausicaan Raptor), Draguas Cruiser (Gorn Battlecruiser)

The distribution of "costume options" is based on Nausicaan mercenary bands relying on small and nimble ships, so they get two Raptors. Gorn get two battlecruisers, because after the KDF they're the second biggest military force in the Alliance. Also, the Draguas will have more firepower than the Orion Brigand, whereas the smaller Vishap is basically a "frigate" with cruiser stats.

But we already have two "K'vort style" BoP's. Also, any cosmetic differences would differentiate from the canon model, which was identical to the B'rel ...
Baaah I need to stop, I suppose I'm really just not a fan of the whole K'vort scale thing. :D

Honestly I don't care what they put in at the lower tiers. Not because I don't want to see some more options (I was really disappointed we didn't get T3 versions of the ships that they gave us), but because, I can only be sure that we will get more T5 ships since these are the ones that make profit.

I'm not going to argue for or against a K'vort simply because I don't care enough either way. It certainly is a ships people ask for, and that is a big part of Cryptic's decisions making process for new ships. So all I can do it try to guide them away from the BoP/Cruiser idea if they decided to make a K'vort.

[Archived Post]

If we KDF are to get new vessels added to our roster of choices, I merely hope that the Devs design such vessels with the ideology of KDF coquest and war in mind. Especially if the war between the factions is going to heat up.
Otherwise I agree that we KDF do not need a whole fleet of a thousand different vessels per se.

[Archived Post]

How about adding these ships to the roster.

NuQ'Duj-Class Scout: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/NuQ'Duj_class
This could be a tier two ship with the Lt. Slot allocated to a Science officer.

SuQ'Jagh-Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/SuQ'jagh_class

Jach"eng-Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jach'Eng_class
This could be a tier five ship with Commander and Lt. Commader Tactical, Lt. and Ensign Science, and Lt. Engineer Bridge officer slots.

Chava'Kal Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Chava'Kal_class

Chuq'Beh-Class Bird of Prey: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Chuq'Beh_class
The Chuq'Beh could be an optional skin for the Tier three Bird of Prey.

Qeh'Ral Class Battleship: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Qeh'Ral_class

This could help give the Klingon Fleet more variety while retaining the feel of the KDF.:cool:

[Archived Post]

this one from the episode bounty looks interesting.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20051206104416/memoryalpha/en/images/b/b3/Goroths_starship,_aft.jpg

http://drexfiles.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/goroths-ship-bounty-1.jpg?w=655&h=368

[Archived Post]

How about adding these ships to the roster.

NuQ'Duj-Class Scout: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/NuQ'Duj_class
This could be a tier two ship with the Lt. Slot allocated to a Science officer.

SuQ'Jagh-Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/SuQ'jagh_class

Jach"eng-Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Jach'Eng_class
This could be a tier five ship with Commander and Lt. Commader Tactical, Lt. and Ensign Science, and Lt. Engineer Bridge officer slots.

Chava'Kal Class: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Chava'Kal_class

Chuq'Beh-Class Bird of Prey: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Chuq'Beh_class
The Chuq'Beh could be an optional skin for the Tier three Bird of Prey.

Qeh'Ral Class Battleship: http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Qeh'Ral_class

This could help give the Klingon Fleet more variety while retaining the feel of the KDF.:cool:

Sorry, but ships designed by other game companies are out of the question.
They cannot be used for legal reasons.
Otherwise I'd want the Emperor Class from Klingon Academy but it's impossible too.

[Archived Post]

I just want to see T5 options of the baseline ships that make up the backbone of the Empire. Sure a few other ships would be a "nice to have" but I want to focus on the "need to have", which is T5 access to The K'tinga and the D-7.

[Archived Post]

Sorry, but ships designed by other game companies are out of the question.
They cannot be used for legal reasons.
Otherwise I'd want the Emperor Class from Klingon Academy but it's impossible too.

Considering that the licence to use the Star Trek brand has expired on those games, that arguement is weak at best. It seems since CBS has the final call on what can and can't be made or allowed in this game, they could easily permit second and thrid party materials. Or, if they greatly fear litigation, they could coordinate negotiations between the respective parties. Immitation and inclusion is the most sincere form of flatery after all.

[Archived Post]

Considering that the licence to use the Star Trek brand has expired on those games, that arguement is weak at best. It seems since CBS has the final call on what can and can't be made or allowed in this game, they could easily permit second and thrid party materials. Or, if they greatly fear litigation, they could coordinate negotiations between the respective parties. Immitation and inclusion is the most sincere form of flatery after all.

Derivative materials work very differently than the regular Star Trek license.
That's the reason why Starfleet Command 3 had none of the derived ships from Starfleet Command 2, because ships from Interplay could not be used by Activision despite the fact they got the license to the game.

Also the license for FASA expired over 20 years ago and even today the guy who runs Star Fleet Battles (Steven Cole) cannot even permit a link on his forums to SFB conversions of FASA ships (he said he spent lots of money on lawyers just to tell him that).
He also said derivatives of canon Trek ships work differently than the rest.

And I've been laughted at for pointing out that it would be rather difficult to get Kzinti for the Klignon faction due to legal problems.
Gee, I wonder how that turned out...

[Archived Post]

And I've been laughted at for pointing out that it would be rather difficult to get Kzinti for the Klignon faction due to legal problems.
Gee, I wonder how that turned out...

For all we know you are Larry Niven and thus would have known that answer beforehand... [/tinfoil hat]

[Archived Post]

For all we know you are Larry Niven and thus would have known that answer beforehand... [/tinfoil hat]

HMM, I wasn't aware that I...errr...I mean Larry Niven is allergic to tinfoil hats.:p

Oh and additionally when you read a little about what Interplay had to do to get the Kzinti in, you get a feeling how complicated the matter is.
SFC Orion Pirates did include the Kzinti, all Interplay had to do was call them Mirak and change their appearence and backstory to not make it appear they were the Kzinti; they turned them into dog-people instead of cat-people.

[Archived Post]

SFC Orion Pirates did include the Kzinti, all Interplay had to do was call them Mirak and change their appearence and backstory to not make it appear they were the Kzinti; they turned them into dog-people instead of cat-people.
That's barely no change at all from the Original! I mean, they still have furs, right? :p

[Archived Post]

That's barely no change at all from the Original! I mean, they still have furs, right? :p

And eyes and ears, searching for any other differences is just nitpicking.;)

[Archived Post]

Derivative materials work very differently than the regular Star Trek license.
That's the reason why Starfleet Command 3 had none of the derived ships from Starfleet Command 2, because ships from Interplay could not be used by Activision despite the fact they got the license to the game.

Also the license for FASA expired over 20 years ago and even today the guy who runs Star Fleet Battles (Steven Cole) cannot even permit a link on his forums to SFB conversions of FASA ships (he said he spent lots of money on lawyers just to tell him that).
He also said derivatives of canon Trek ships work differently than the rest.

And I've been laughted at for pointing out that it would be rather difficult to get Kzinti for the Klignon faction due to legal problems.
Gee, I wonder how that turned out...

So the game has to be around for 50 or more years to wait for the copyright to expire? The people who spend all that money and time just to deny the use of their material are very petty and vain people. Most likely, they would spend so much money to deny the use of their creation it would defeat the purpose of creating it in the first place. As long as credit is given that is all they really need. Those who put thier creations into public domain tend to get better publicity.

[Archived Post]

So the game has to be around for 50 or more years to wait for the copyright to expire? The people who spend all that money and time just to deny the use of their material are very petty and vain people. Most likely, they would spend so much money to deny the use of their creation it would defeat the purpose of creating it in the first place. As long as credit is given that is all they really need. Those who put thier creations into public domain tend to get better publicity.

In case of Activision it's probably something along the line of "when you manage to build a snowman in hell, we'll consider giving Cryptic our shipdesigns for a modest fee."
They're together with Blizzard and probably not interested in giving a competitor something that would help him.

In case on Interplay it may be even more intersting given their current condition; they were bankrupt, shutdown and are now back.
They'd probably be intersted in selling their ships for a couple million bucks if anyone was interested...

[Archived Post]

I would just like some definitive word, posted somewhere, by someone in development, that just lets us know that the stuff we asked for is in development. Too much to ask?

[Archived Post]

I would love the influx of new KDF ships, but I think it will be a cold day in grethor before they allow the ships in for a token.....I never used my token for LTG hoping the Siege Destroyer would be added -in, but to my surprise...well, not surprise, but dismay, it is available for 800+ emblems...that's a bit excessive...anyway, the new ships, or at least the ones we'd like to fly seem to be added in for cp instead of the tokens in-game for us when we reach a level cap...it seems to be a little slap in the face, but at least the ship I have works fine....I'll keep it until I run out of duct tape to hold it together....
I'll be darned if Imma gonna spend that many emblems for a ship.....

[Archived Post]

Well, you might want to remember that no matter how incompetent Vulcan Intel on the Klingons was ("Klingons don't use escape pods" comes to mind) T'Pol said "There are many classes of ships", in fact it was so many she could not remember them all, not even the contemporary ones.
So we should actually see more than the two or three we usually got per series because the VFX guys felt it was more important to add another type of shuttlecraft or tricorder for Starfleet that another Klingon ship.

The reason T'Pol and the Vulcan's weren't aware of all the Klingon ships is simple. Very few ships survive an encounter with one let alone tell the tell about it. Unless, your ship is called Enterprise and have access to plot armor and weapons.

[Archived Post]

A side issue, perhaps...

But if you look at the upcoming calendar, as well as the engineering reports, you see mention of a number of Federation ships that are either under consideration or under development..but unless I missed it, I saw nothing regarding any more Klingon ships.

It makes one wonder....

[Archived Post]

A side issue, perhaps...

But if you look at the upcoming calendar, as well as the engineering reports, you see mention of a number of Federation ships that are either under consideration or under development..but unless I missed it, I saw nothing regarding any more Klingon ships.

It makes one wonder....

It shouldn't make you wonder, when Dstahl states he's 100% behind bringing Klingons up to par with the Federation. He simply doesn't mean it because he continues to let the gaps get wider and wider. Only taking the occasional short cut to show us how little they are doing. We will have to spam the boards again just to get equivalent ships in the future.