What Love should the Raptor Get?

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Well with all the love Federation ships are getting to even up with Imperial warships, what love should the Raptor Get?


Turn-Rate Booster?

More Damage?

Better Armor?

Universal Ensign Slot?

A Beam Lance?

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Remove Engineering Console. Add 2 points of turn rate. 100 % Defiant Copy.

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The Raptor doesn't need anything. Its fine just the way it is.

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Oh so Klingons shouldn't get love regarding these ship upgrades? :rolleyes:

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perhaps the option to have teeth and eyes painted onto the nose!?

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Oh so Klingons shouldn't get love regarding these ship upgrades? :rolleyes:


What upgrades are you talking about? The only ships that got any upgrades recently were science ships, and they all needed it, sensor analysis helps the weak damage output, and several science ships, including the Varanus, got a turn rate upgrade to fix their lousy performance as actual science ships. And the Galaxy X got a much needed weapon slot and lance improvement to bring it closer in line with other cruisers.

But those ships needed the improvements. So why does the Raptor need anything? Its a good ship right where it is.

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What upgrades are you talking about? The only ships that got any upgrades recently were science ships, and they all needed it, sensor analysis helps the weak damage output, and several science ships, including the Varanus, got a turn rate upgrade to fix their lousy performance as actual science ships. And the Galaxy X got a much needed weapon slot and lance improvement to bring it closer in line with other cruisers.

But those ships needed the improvements. So why does the Raptor need anything? Its a good ship right where it is.

I have to agree fully with ya the raptor don't need anything.

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perhaps the option to have teeth and eyes painted onto the nose!?

I'm down with this.

The Raptor is fine.

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I would like more visual custom options like all the fed ships have.:p

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The Raptor is exactly as it should be. But it would be nice to get a few more skins for it.

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The Raptor is exactly as it should be. But it would be nice to get a few more skins for it.

Some skins ohh yea love to see that

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The Raptor is perfect as it is, we just need more appearances. I also might like to see that Ensign Tactical made an Ensign Universal, but I doubt that'll happen.

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I just started playing one. Can we leave it be for a moment?
Talk of love later.

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The Raptor is exactly as it should be. But it would be nice to get a few more skins for it.
Okay, this is a good idea.

Preferable I'd like to see some _free_ new ship costumes. Not C-Store stuff. Sell some fancy Fed uniform in C-Store to afford your KDF costumes if necessary. :p

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Upgrades? No, I personally think it is balanced the way it is right now and that any tweak would bring the Fed PVP'rs out in force crying foul about how you blew their new MVAE out of space with little to no effort and that you need to be nerfed. Costumes or Variations YES!!!!! That is what most of the KDF community wants with its ships, being able to customize our death sleds as we reign down hate and discontent upon the Feds.

Sure a few more classes of ships would be great, but being able to utilize more costume options would be a quick fix to appease the KDF in the short term. Note, I said appease short term, not fix and satisfy.

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Upgrades? No, I personally think it is balanced the way it is right now and that any tweak would bring the Fed PVP'rs out in force crying foul about how you blew their new MVAE out of space with little to no effort and that you need to be nerfed. Costumes or Variations YES!!!!! That is what most of the KDF community wants with its ships, being able to customize our death sleds as we reign down hate and discontent upon the Feds.

Sure a few more classes of ships would be great, but being able to utilize more costume options would be a quick fix to appease the KDF in the short term. Note, I said appease short term, not fix and satisfy.

Speaking for myself, I want more for the KDF in the way of ships, missions, storyline, costume options, Targ/saurian handling, etc but am tired of being told "no" by the feds everytime the subject is brought up whilst they cry foul of our faction being too powerful in thier vaunted opinions.
So I wait patiently, play the game and see if the Devs will allow fed pandering to undermine every other aspect of STO much like the situation PvP seems to be slowly/quickly falling into currently.
Biding my time until I decided that the game is so far gone from common sense as to not be worth my refering to those I know whom have asked of it and how it plays.
Harsh, most certainly, but I tire of the petty BS and grow bored with being told me place by those whom deem themselves my betters.

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Completely agree Roach! Well said!

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It's really absurd, it's not like KDF has any huge advantage over FED ships in my opinion. For one, the Raptor is basically exactly the same as a Defiant. Klingon ships are not overpowered.

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Harsh, most certainly, but I tire of the petty BS and grow bored with being told me place by those whom deem themselves my betters.

There is a strict hierarchy in STO that is enforced by some but by no means all players

1. Fed-only players, those who "don't play a useless species" and yes, I can quote that:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3160619&postcount=52

2. God, not blasphemy, it just feels right to place him here

3. Tainted creatures like me, who have characters on both sides

4. The horrible ones, you know the ones who only play the useless species.

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4. The horrible ones, you know the ones who only play the useless species.

Like Me. maH DichDaq Qaw' DIvI'!

Then again I've always been a non-conformist and anti-popularity minded.

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Like Me. maH DichDaq Qaw' DIvI'!

Then again I've always been a non-conformist and anti-popularity minded.

HMM, we'll see if your call "We will destroy the Federation!" will have its expected result but I don't understand that other stuff you're writing:
non-con...non-com....non-communist?
I don't understand why you don't like communists....must be because I'm one of those mentally challenged half-breeds.
Our cranial capacity is vastly inferior to that of all those pure Federation-dudes.

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HMM, we'll see if your call "We will destroy the Federation!" will have its expected result but I don't understand that other stuff you're writing:
non-con...non-com....non-communist?
I don't understand why you don't like communists....must be because I'm one of those mentally challenged half-breeds.
Our cranial capacity is vastly inferior to that of all those pure Federation-dudes.

Non-Conformists. Meaning I can't form convicts into other shapes very well. Though maybe comminist convicts are easier to bend?



as to the love a Raptor should get. My only suggestion would be drop a ENG console slot and give the LG version a 17 turn score.

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Non-Conformists. Meaning I can't form convicts into other shapes very well. Though maybe comminist convicts are easier to bend?

Have you tried breaking their bones?
Those crunchy...tasty bones...?
HMMM....booones
http://www.allmystery.de/dateien/uh62290,1272288490,homer_simpson.jpg


as to the love a Raptor should get. My only suggestion would be drop a ENG console slot and give the LG version a 17 turn score.

Doesn't a Mk11 RCS console have a similar effect?
It takes over one ENG console and increases the turnrate.

My proposal for a Raptor that fills a gap at max level would certainly by one that shifts the ship's focus towards science, away from Tactical.
With a decent amount of science slots and a Sci BO setup and a reduced armament, 3/3 no cannons.
I know some folks will laugh at me for this because Raptor and science sounds contradictory.
But I guess it's as non-conformistic as your ideas.
And I'd say a Raptor with a fixed science arrangement would probably be a very attractive and useful alternative to the BoP.
Also the Raptor all the Raptors in this game come from was a scout not a starship-killer so it's not as out of the box as it may sound.

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[QUOTE=mister_dee]Have you tried breaking their bones?
Those crunchy...tasty bones...?
HMMM....booones
I was attempting to remain pure to my oragami roots, but yeah I guess an industrial blender could make conforming a little easier.

Doesn't a Mk11 RCS console have a similar effect?
It takes over one ENG console and increases the turnrate. So much for my ability to give good love......What KDf for viagra?

My proposal for a Raptor that fills a gap at max level would certainly by one that shifts the ship's focus towards science, away from Tactical.
With a decent amount of science slots and a Sci BO setup and a reduced armament, 3/3 no cannons.
I know some folks will laugh at me for this because Raptor and science sounds contradictory.
But I guess it's as non-conformistic as your ideas.
And I'd say a Raptor with a fixed science arrangement would probably be a very attractive and useful alternative to the BoP. SOunds like a good edition to the concept of a LG Raptor.
Why design one when you can design two for twice the price.
So would this be a
Com-Tac
LTC-Sci
Ens- Tac
LT- Tac
LT - Eng ?


Also the Raptor, all the Raptors in this game, come from was a scout not a starship-killer so it's not as out of the box as it may sound

What KDF would cover the combat escort concept better then? I ask from curiousity.

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Raptor JR

Could be a gorn or Orien ship to equip with cloak

4/2 turn rate of fed escorts
hull and shields of a Heg BOP
Comander tactical
LtC Sci
LT tact
Lt eng
E- Tact optional nagated

special power CD 1:15
Attack pattern Zetta, increaces duration damage buff exiting cloak by 5 sec, 10 sec 15% damage stength buff added, critical chance raised by 5%, negative -15 aux when activated

When loosing your ensign power for a upgrade version of APZ

Upgrade Zetta, increaces duration damage buff exiting cloak by 5 sec, 10 sec 25% buff damage strength, critical chance raised by 5%, -15 power level , each critical your oppenets lands reduces the CD of Attack patern Zetta by 5 sec up to 30 sec

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Jubbe' [Seeker] class Raptor

Hull: 33000
Turn Rate: 15
Impulse Modifier:0.2
Inertia: 60
Weapons: 3/3
Cloak

Consoles:
Engineering: 2
Science:3
Tactical:4

BO setup:
Lt. Engineering
Ensign Science, LtC Science
Lt Tactical, Commander Tactical

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I'm assuming everyone on here who thinks the Raptor is fine and dandy either play as Feds or don't PvP much? I have flown a Raptor as my primary ship since the beginning of STO and I definitely think it needs some love with the changes that we have seen to PvP since then. Furthermore, I don't want to sound like an arrogant ass but the number of good Raptor pilots is exceptionally low. I can think of many great BoP pilots been incredibly few Raptor ones......that isn't because of coincidence.

Various Ideas I have for the Raptor....obviously not ALL of these. *That was my disclaimer for those who are reading impaired.

1. Increased turn rate.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station
4. Replace one Science Console with a Universal Console? Just thought of this one but not enough to think if it would be a good/bad idea...opinions?


Those are the ones I've come up with that I think would be easy to implement without being game breakers. My hope would be to provide a nice alternative to the BoP for KDF players in end game PvP.

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1. Increased turn rate.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station
4. Replace one Science Console with a Universal Console? Just thought of this one but not enough to think if it would be a good/bad idea...opinions?

2 sounds like something people have asked for the Tactical Escort Retrofit... I think it's an unreasonable request.

Things that I never expect to change (at least until the Romulans become available)
1) Only BoPs have acccess to Battlecloak
2) Every ship class at tier 5+ will have access to at least 2 consoles of every type.

Maybe the fact that the BoP is favored over the Raptor gives even more credence to the idea that the BoP is overpowered? Or if not the BoP is overpowered, that the powers are not well enough balanced, making a cross-class combation of Commander and Lt.Cmdr slot more effective then the existing ones?

I know that with a worse console layout and a better turn rate than the Raptor, the Tactical Escort Retrofit is one of the most seen Escorts in the game. The second favored always seemed to have been Fleet Escort. The MVAM might have changed things.

So I think that's everything that you need to change with the Raptor. Ditch the engineering console, add 2 points of turn rate.

If you change its Ensign to an Engineering Ensign, you basically have a Fleet Escort with cloak. Can that really be balanced? I think not. I find it already questionable that the Neg'Var has the same hp as all Tier 5 Cruisers on the Fed side, and a vastly better turn rate. But arguably, for a Cruiser the turn rate is not as crucial. (Yet, people that complain the Excelsior is OP make this as one major argument for the ship).

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[QUOTE=MajorFury;3435414]I'm assuming everyone on here who thinks the Raptor is fine and dandy either play as Feds or don't PvP much? Well I have just recently started flying the Qin, but I didn't think I was doing it in a fedly manner. :p

1. Increased turn rate. - I would like this at the cost of a Science console slot.
2. Battle Cloak instead of Standard Cloak - I disagree due to the same reasons as Mustrum.
3. Replace the Ensign Tac station with either a Engineer or Science station - Or make it a U-slot.

answers in red.

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What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.

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HMM, some interesting points indeed overall.
On the one hand we have the question whether the Klingons should have a variety to their Raptor fleet similar to the Federation Escort fleet, which might moke the BoP somewhat obsolete.
On the other hand there is the question how balanced such additions would be given that the Raptor has more hullpoints unless I'm mistaken) and a cloak while keeping the same amount of consoles as its Federation counterparts.
Does this mean that since the Raptor has more HP and a cloak that it must remain as "overspecialized" as it is right now, given that is has 3 tactical consoles?
Or does it mean that additional variants, like the "Reconaissance in force" version I posted, should have some kind of disadvantage to offset its increased flexiibility?

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What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.

I would persoanlly like the idea better as one of Mister_Dee's science converted "scouts" concepts. A Science/Tac Raptor could just be the support vessel for said (scout) BoPs.

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What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.

I find it somewhat ironic that you think turning a Raptor into more of a MVAE rather than something like giving it a battle cloak is ok. I would love if it had a Lt Commander Science Boff with a vastly improved turn rate but that is way more OP then any of the things I listed if you want the honest truth. Having a Commander Tac and giving up the LT commander Tac station for a LT Commander Science is no big deal really. I'll just use Tac Initiative but gain the incredible versatility that the LT Commander science would offer. I honestly would oppose this because it really would be too good.

Buffing the raptor has nothing to do with a BoP being too powerful at all. In fact the new MVAE is superior to a BoP so where exactly does that leave a Raptor in the food chain? Probably the easiest fix would be to either simply increase the turn rate or give it a battle cloak. People who are critiquing the Raptor please post who you are in game as i'd at least like to see you in action flying one. I think that is a fair request and not meant to be condescending. Like I said I have flown this ship extensively and feel like I'm a pretty damn good judge of its abilities and limitations. I'm definitely open for debate but at least I'd like to know who is who so I can get a better appreciation for their experience with this ship in game.

Blackjack

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I like my raptor just like it is thanks. Someone mentioned new skins ...that would be ok.

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I like my raptor just like it is thanks. Someone mentioned new skins ...that would be ok.

From what i can tell you are pretty vested in the PVE side of things, which is fine. However, The PVE in this game is so simple it does not matter what ship you use at all. I'm talking about how it stacks up to other ships in the PvP world not PVE.

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From what i can tell you are pretty vested in the PVE side of things, which is fine. However, The PVE in this game is so simple it does not matter what ship you use at all. I'm talking about how it stacks up to other ships in the PvP world not PVE.

You would be totally wrong.

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Well I came to that conclusion based off the fact you are not in a PvP fleet and nobody I knew had heard of you. Also looked to me that you primarily play Federation but if I'm mistaken then my bad.

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I guess you missed my sig? And no wrong again I am primarily a Klingon.....I have feds yes, It gets very boring waiting for cryptic to work on the pvp in this game. And leveling a Klingon is agonizing.

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Ghostwulf is a pretty hardcore pvp'er. If i see him on.. 9/10 his in a pvp with ash ;)

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Ghostwulf is a pretty hardcore pvp'er. If i see him on.. 9/10 his in a pvp with ash ;)

Johnny waz up :p

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Ghostwulf is a pretty hardcore pvp'er. If i see him on.. 9/10 his in a pvp with ash ;)

Word.




And on the subject of the thread...... I fly a raptor as a tac captain, and it's fine. It is acually better than the defiant r in all but turnrate and shield strength. It has 4k more hull than a defiant r, plus a extra engineering console slot, and the same boff layout as the defiant r. If you think that is weaker than the fed escorts, I think you might be doing something wrong.

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I am down for more skins. :D
/signed

* Disclaimer; I've only been flying a Raptor since January so I by no means consider myself an expert and leave balancing suggestions to those who know more and are considerably better than I at captaining the Raptor. :cool:

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I am down for more skins. :D
/signed

* Disclaimer; I've only been flying a Raptor since January so I by no means consider myself an expert and leave balancing suggestions to those who know more and are considerably better than I at captaining the Raptor. :cool: As am I on both counts. Actually really finding the Qin to be an excellent vessel. Though I would have no hesitation if the Devs (or an industriuos player) designed a LG version of it and the Hegh.


And on the subject of the thread...... I fly a raptor as a tac captain, and it's fine. It is acually better than the defiant r in all but turnrate and shield strength. It has 4k more hull than a defiant r, plus a extra engineering console slot, and the same boff layout as the defiant r. If you think that is weaker than the fed escorts, I think you might be doing something wrong.

I find the turnrate to be quite good. Was really amazed at how easily she can spin her nose around to line-up on a target and wished I had tried the Qin sooner.

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I want my Raptor to split into 3 BoPs.

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The Raptor is a monster vs pugs. I remember flying with a team Jorf set up with myself in tac my raptor, K'eg, Black Jack, and I think Elash. We just destroyed the pugs we came up against.

Then we ran into a sci heavy team, can't remember who, and couldn't get kills and ended up loosing hard. We had a group of very skilled players that just got spanked.

I'd love for some kind of universal slot, to change based on the opponent you're facing... In pugs run an extra tac to kill faster. Against a Sci heavy team, an extra Science Team would be a godsend against all these darn scramble sensor spam teams.

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The Raptor is a monster vs pugs. I remember flying with a team Jorf set up with myself in tac my raptor, K'eg, Black Jack, and I think Elash. We just destroyed the pugs we came up against.

Then we ran into a sci heavy team, can't remember who, and couldn't get kills and ended up loosing hard. We had a group of very skilled players that just got spanked.

I'd love for some kind of universal slot, to change based on the opponent you're facing... In pugs run an extra tac to kill faster. Against a Sci heavy team, an extra Science Team would be a godsend against all these darn scramble sensor spam teams.

A universal ensign BO slot would be so $$money$$. :D

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Actually, I think the one thing a Raptor needs most is a competent supporting team. I would venture to say that too many KDF play Tac/sci focused BOPs and are more solo players than team players. Not all of course, but the chief thing you see more of on the Fed side is cross support ability. I would say it is a lot more common to see a BOP or a DPS outfitted Vor'cha than a strong supporting Negh'var or Marauder, for example. If a Raptor gets the heal support it needs, it can be very deadly. But without it, its not going to get far.

A Raptor is virtually identical to a Defiant refit, but the Defiant refit can almost expect to have a science ship that can support it with heals on its side, and that makes it stronger when it gets that.

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I guess you missed my sig? And no wrong again I am primarily a Klingon.....I have feds yes, It gets very boring waiting for cryptic to work on the pvp in this game. And leveling a Klingon is agonizing.

I owe you an apology then. I still think that the Raptor needs a bit of a boost compared to the other Escorts that are available to both KDF and Feds. I've listed a few changes that I think would make it a more appealing and effective ship to fly then the current one without making it OP. In my opinion it is the worse escort available outside of the Guramba.

You know if you are in a new MVAE, Fleet Escort, or Advanced Escort you might not have cloak but the entire Fed team ought to know you probably are going to be the initial target and prepare to support you. Guys flying Intrepids can pop the Abalative armor to grant near immunity so they dont make a great first alpha strike target. That leaves that escort or a cruiser and 9/10 times you probably are better off going after that escort. You survive the initial Alpha and any of those Escorts hold a definite advantage over a Raptor.

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What would happen if we went a radical route - make the Raptor (at all tiers) a Science/Tactical hybrid instead of an Escort?
That would basically turn it exactly into what the MVAM has now at tier 5, minus the MVAM mode, but plus cloak and an regular science console.

I am opposed to adding Science Vessels to all tiers for the KDF. If we do that, we will have Federation BoPs as well, soon. And then, Carriers. Nothing of that I want either. I like the factions to be different.

But it would make sense to me that the KDF would put a focus on "tactical exploration". E.g. they fly into hostile territory, scan the dung out of it, and then conquer everything that seems worthy.

That is basically how 75% of most BoP layouts. If they make the raptor a Tac/Sci Escort they then will need to give the KDF a full on tac escort. When I think KDF I usually think large killing machine that uses brute force (tac) and less finesse (sci).

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Actually, I think the one thing a Raptor needs most is a competent supporting team. I would venture to say that too many KDF play Tac/sci focused BOPs and are more solo players than team players. Not all of course, but the chief thing you see more of on the Fed side is cross support ability. I would say it is a lot more common to see a BOP or a DPS outfitted Vor'cha than a strong supporting Negh'var or Marauder, for example. If a Raptor gets the heal support it needs, it can be very deadly. But without it, its not going to get far.

A Raptor is virtually identical to a Defiant refit, but the Defiant refit can almost expect to have a science ship that can support it with heals on its side, and that makes it stronger when it gets that.

As a (currently) full TAC load on a Qin, I could not agree more.

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Switch the Lt. Engineering station with the Lt.C Tac station....

Commander Tac
Lt. Tac
Ensign Tac
Lt.C Eng
Lt. Sci

.....?

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Raptor is fine.

Defiant turn - Aegis Engine - Relevant skills boosted (engine efficiency/performance) - 100-25-50-25

26.2

Raptor turn - Aegis Engine - Relevant skills boosted - 100-25-50-25 power

24.2

Raptor turn - Aegis Engine - RCS Console - Relevant skills boosted - 100-25-50-25 power

25.2 (maybe 25.3 or .4, only had a common MK XI RCS handy)

Its very close to being identical to a Defiant..

The only reason you see few Raptors is because the BOP is a much more effective ship.. You can have the same alpha, more heals and better options (Sci LtC with a cloak anyone?)

Wait.. If the Raptor = Defiant and BOP > Raptor.. Does that mean the BOP is better than Defiants too?

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Raptor is fine.

Defiant turn - Aegis Engine - Relevant skills boosted (engine efficiency/performance) - 100-25-50-25

26.2

Raptor turn - Aegis Engine - Relevant skills boosted - 100-25-50-25 power

24.2

Raptor turn - Aegis Engine - RCS Console - Relevant skills boosted - 100-25-50-25 power

25.2 (maybe 25.3 or .4, only had a common MK XI RCS handy)

Its very close to being identical to a Defiant..

The only reason you see few Raptors is because the BOP is a much more effective ship.. You can have the same alpha, more heals and better options (Sci LtC with a cloak anyone?)

Wait.. If the Raptor = Defiant and BOP > Raptor.. Does that mean the BOP is better than Defiants too?

I have flown both with pretty much identical loadouts console wise and the Defiant is more nimble then the raptor, Right now my raptor has more power to engines then my Defiant but my defiant turns much better. The only thing I can think s the defiant is smaller and has its turn axis closer to center and the raptor has its turn more towards the back.

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I've been flying a Raptor forever and I can 100% positively confirm that a Defiant will out turn it as well as the new MVAE. I have a Defiant on my Fed as well as countless PvP matches against them and there is no denying the inferior turn rate of the Raptor. Turn rate is incredibly important for an Escort and definitely a weakness that the Raptor suffers from.

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I've been flying a Raptor forever and I can 100% positively confirm that a Defiant will out turn it as well as the new MVAE. I have a Defiant on my Fed as well as countless PvP matches against them and there is no denying the inferior turn rate of the Raptor. Turn rate is incredibly important for an Escort and definitely a weakness that the Raptor suffers from.

Ive never really flown BOPs on my Klingon toons.. I mainly flew Raptors before I semipermanently switched to Fed.

Fedside I fly and while the feel of the ship is a tad different, I dont see the turnrate difference as more than a slight adjustment to get used to.

The difference in turnrate between the RCS Raptor (25.2) and Defiant (26.2) is like 4%

Maybe the size of the model and/or difference in inertia plays a small part?

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Makes me wonder if the displayed turnrates are accurate. Certainly, Defiants seem to out-turn my Raptor by a very significant margin. Of course, since I don't have an RCS, the difference is 8%, which I guess might be noticeable.

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Ingame the Defiant has a much tighter turning radius than the Raptor. The best advice I can give against the Defiant is to break off from the "merry-go-round" of turning and use EVM/Duet/ApO/ApA to get some distance before returning to the attack.

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Ingame the Defiant has a much tighter turning radius than the Raptor. The best advice I can give against the Defiant is to break off from the "merry-go-round" of turning and use EVM/Duet/ApO/ApA to get some distance before returning to the attack.

This is really the best tactic and the good defiant and MVAM escort pilots know this. A raptor against one of these inside 2km will maybe get 1 good burst off after that it is turret action. I use roach's approach because at 3-5 KM the raptor is a Brute, can take more punishment then a defiant and the tactical MVAM.

Ultimately I think the turn rates are off, I know some of it has to do with simple physics, the defiant is a more or less a small saucer and the raptor is long and cylinderical. The only question is are they similar in size if they are same from from front to back they should more or less turn the same unless the pivot point is not the same but I feel the raptor is somewhere between the defiant and the fleet or advanced escort.

[Archived Post]

This is really the best tactic and the good defiant and MVAM escort pilots know this. A raptor against one of these inside 2km will maybe get 1 good burst off after that it is turret action. I use roach's approach because at 3-5 KM the raptor is a Brute, can take more punishment then a defiant and the tactical MVAM.

Ultimately I think the turn rates are off, I know some of it has to do with simple physics, the defiant is a more or less a small saucer and the raptor is long and cylinderical. The only question is are they similar in size if they are same from from front to back they should more or less turn the same unless the pivot point is not the same but I feel the raptor is somewhere between the defiant and the fleet or advanced escort.

I can not disagree. I too think the Raptor falls between the two fedships fairly well.
Possibly a Refit variant is needed for LG rank combat? It would give the chance for the Devs to create a piece of equipment called Coherent Molecular Alloy Armor (+20 Kinetic/+20 all damage) (if it doesn't already exist) as it was disovered to be on the first raptor ever encountered.
Overall though I think the differences are somewhat fair. The Qin has 1 extra console slot over the Def-R and 3000 more hull to compensate for the Def-R's higher shields and faster turnrate.

[Archived Post]

Ingame the Defiant has a much tighter turning radius than the Raptor. The best advice I can give against the Defiant is to break off from the "merry-go-round" of turning and use EVM/Duet/ApO/ApA to get some distance before returning to the attack.

I can sometime fool a Defiant/MVAM by full reverse with EM. They will just circle in front of you then.

[Archived Post]

I can sometime fool a Defiant/MVAM by full reverse with EM. They will just circle in front of you then.

Excellent Tactic!!!! Very clever!!!

[Archived Post]

On topic: we recetnly discussed a few Klingon ship designs over in the "Klingons need more Klingon ships" thread and I just had an idea for one of my ships to serve as a possible additional Raptor hull:

Many months ago, when there were only the K't'inga and it's rather unattractive refit and no D7 skin, I assumed the D7 would become either a T1 or T2 ship.
So my idea back then was a different K't'inga skin.
It was based in a line from the "Starship Spotter" that the K't'inga was no longer in production by the time of the Dominion War, but in service.
My thought was that the K't'inga would leave a gap in the KDF ship roster since there would be no "light cruiser" to replace it.
Of course we have the Raptors but in their case it's more like they are heavy destroyers and not so much light cruisers.
So my idea was that the 3rd K't'inga skin could be a new design, a more modern ship that took over for lost K't'ingas and that the Klingons would step up prodiction of this new ship in times of war.
It's essentially to the K't'inga what the Excalibur is to the Constitution, a new prodiction vessel that has similar in-combat stats but would probably be somewhat different out of combat.
As a newer ship it would probably be more maintenance-friendly and have a more efficient propulsion system, longer operational range etc.
However those details would not be reflected in-game so it would be identical to the K't'inga as far as STO is concerned.

It's clearly a ship of the late 24th century as far as aestetics are concerned and would be a bit larger than the K'tinga but I think it should be clearly visible that it's an heir to the K't'inga even though it has some characteristics of the Vor'cha.
It does have the familiar K't'inga-stle monstrous three-deck torpedo launchers fore and aft but it has the forward one where the Vor'cha would have its main disruptor cannon.
This was my attempt to show the new ship is a blend of two completely different generations of ships.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8277/klingont3cruiserproposau.jpg
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/992/klingont3cruiserproposa.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/9548/klingont3cruiserproposam.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1945/klingont3cruiserproposag.jpg
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/992/klingont3cruiserproposa.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/992/klingont3cruiserproposa.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/992/klingont3cruiserproposa.jpg



Roach asked me about some stats and I had an idea:

I've been thinking about the stats thing a little bit.
And I've got idea regarding my K't'inga replacement design:

If the K't'inga retrofit became a cruiser Raptor hybrid with Commander Engy and LtC Tac,
why not make the ship I posted one of the "missing" Raptor versions and reverse that arrangement?
Give it Commander Tac and LtC Engy.
This would also reflect a certain evolution in smaller Klingon ships further and further towards a purely Tactical focus, as is indicated in the "Raptor Revealed" article:

http://www.warcry.com/news/view/89845-Star-Trek-Online-Klingon-Raptor-Revealed

Based on this, that K't'inga replacement design would predate the Raptor, perhaps it would be a design created during the Dominion War based on lessons learned there but introduced into service afterwards.

Any feedback from you guys?
Would any self respecting Raptor pilot fly this thing?

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Aesthetically speaking very retro look and feel to it and some may like that. I would like to see something that is a progression or similar to the current design as a skin or other ship in general. I have been working on a couple of designs, mostly by pencil. I have Heavy rapto along the lines of Qin and a MVAM type ship with I think innovative twist on MVAM BOFF layout. A little teaser, KDF MVAM answer think BoP/Raptor union. :eek:

[Archived Post]

Would any self respecting Raptor pilot fly this thing?

I would fly it, but then I'm a new "toy" fanatic. I think a Cruiser/Raptor hybrid would do a Tac toon some good.
Unfortunately the Warcry article does not let me see the picture on this PC, besides I like yours better.

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I would fly it, but then I'm a new "toy" fanatic. I think a Cruiser/Raptor hybrid would do a Tac toon some good.

HMM, again totally off topic but now that you say "toy", I mayhave the right piece of horribly bad music for you.
Rumor has it the Romulans use a recording of it to torture their prisoners with it but since it begins with "I'm a Klingon boy with my Klingon toy" I just thought it might fit.:D

The written text at the beginning is German and says:
"To all those who carry a little Klingon within them...let him out"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazjpiQEw9Y&feature=related

[Archived Post]

HMM, again totally off topic but now that you say "toy", I mayhave the right piece of horribly bad music for you.
Rumor has it the Romulans use a recording of it to torture their prisoners with it but since it begins with "I'm a Klingon boy with my Klingon toy" I just thought it might fit.:D

The written text at the beginning is German and says:
"To all those who carry a little Klingon within them...let him out"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazjpiQEw9Y&feature=related

LOL. Ok I wandered offtopic. It happens with me.
Minutia amazes me
That was just ........ different.

[Archived Post]

HMM, again totally off topic but now that you say "toy", I mayhave the right piece of horribly bad music for you.
Rumor has it the Romulans use a recording of it to torture their prisoners with it but since it begins with "I'm a Klingon boy with my Klingon toy" I just thought it might fit.:D

The written text at the beginning is German and says:
"To all those who carry a little Klingon within them...let him out"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IazjpiQEw9Y&feature=related

Uh...let the Klingon out?....bad idea says I....Who let the Klinks out?...great I can see Q telling Picard to put his dog back on its leash...Not going there...

As far as torture goes, lock a Romulan in a Klingon bilge or the bathroom (there's only one you know) and seal the door...He'll rethink his idea of torture... :eek: :D

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Ok so after flying the new MVAM for a little while, my opinion has changed.

Raptors need a buff ......

The advanced MVAM is far superior. The boff slots make it better than any other escort type in the game, this thing can be loaded for a ton of surviveability or with a BoP type setup for some nasty dps, add to that all the bonuses from the three parts, and a little spam on demand and viola OP.

Actually its almost pointless to fly anything else but a MVAM.

P.S. No cloak does not make up for anything, the boff arrangements on this thing are far more powerful than cloak.

[Archived Post]

Ok so after flying the new MVAM for a little while, my opinion has changed.

Raptors need a buff ......

The advanced MVAM is far superior. The boff slots make it better than any other escort type in the game, this thing can be loaded for a ton of surviveability or with a BoP type setup for some nasty dps, add to that all the bonuses from the three parts, and a little spam on demand and viola OP.

Actually its almost pointless to fly anything else but a MVAM.

P.S. No cloak does not make up for anything, the boff arrangements on this thing are far more powerful than cloak.

The only problem with the MVAM is the gap between the really good and the really bad pilots. I figure it is pretty easy to set up but for some reason the gap between good players and bad players is huge sort of like the G-X. My opinion about the MVAM is still on the fence because I have blown up my fair share and the key is to get it back into one piece. Given I have run into more inexperienced pilots of the MVAM then pilots like ayatanhi

[Archived Post]

The only problem with the MVAM is the gap between the really good and the really bad pilots. I figure it is pretty easy to set up but for some reason the gap between good players and bad players is huge sort of like the G-X. My opinion about the MVAM is still on the fence because I have blown up my fair share and the key is to get it back into one piece. Given I have run into more inexperienced pilots of the MVAM then pilots like ayatanhi

Agreed , as always player skill is a factor, but that needs to be dealt with on the players end.

The problem is the capability and potential of this ship (MVAM) vs the Raptor. Hell this thing is better than ALL of the escorts.

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Agreed , as always player skill is a factor, but that needs to be dealt with on the players end.

The problem is the capability and potential of this ship (MVAM) vs the Raptor. Hell this thing is better than ALL of the escorts.

From what I have seen the Gamma section is the only section that worries but it worries my like the defiant worries me in my Raptor.

[Archived Post]

Agreed , as always player skill is a factor, but that needs to be dealt with on the players end.

The problem is the capability and potential of this ship (MVAM) vs the Raptor. Hell this thing is better than ALL of the escorts.

This escort is better imo than most other escorts, I do feel though that we should be able to do something else to make it better...especially at the next level coming out in season 4...They are still planning to raise the level cap in season 4 right????

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Having been toying with my KDF more lately and playing with my KDF fleeties more lately I decided that if I were to make another character, and have them use the Raptor. This is what I'd want.


Tier 5 Retrofit Heavy Raptor
With normal Battle Cloak


That is all.

[Archived Post]

Having been toying with my KDF more lately and playing with my KDF fleeties more lately I decided that if I were to make another character, and have them use the Raptor. This is what I'd want.


Tier 5 Retrofit Heavy Raptor
With normal Battle Cloak


That is all.
What would you be sacrificing for this BC?

[Archived Post]

No BC for any ship that isnt a BOP.

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No BC for any ship that isnt a BOP.

That's my thought exactly, and many other people feel this way apparently from reading this and other similar threads..

[Archived Post]

What would you be sacrificing for this BC?

Either an Engineering console or the ensign tac slot. Or both, both would be a good offset.

[Archived Post]

Either an Engineering console or the ensign tac slot. Or both, both would be a good offset.

No thank you. Again no BC. I don't get what everyone's obssession is with having BC. On Fed side many want the Def-R to have BC in trade for a console slot. BC is kewl, but not that kewl.... it just costs too much. Just look at the BOP shields and hull. U want BC get a BOP.

[Archived Post]

No thank you. Again no BC. I don't get what everyone's obssession is with having BC. On Fed side many want the Def-R to have BC in trade for a console slot. BC is kewl, but not that kewl.... it just costs too much. Just look at the BOP shields and hull. U want BC get a BOP.

I would agree. NO BC better turn would be nice or at least put the turn axis near the middle like the defiant.

[Archived Post]

I'm a Defiant retro user on my main and I personally don't want the thing to have battle cloak because its not a Federation technology. But on the KDF side a Raptor having [b]normal battle cloak, not enhanced[/i] is not an unusual or OPd proposition. However Captain Data's suggestion of a better turn rate is better, as my reasoning for the battle cloak is that I couldn't get the damn thing to turn well enough to bear on my friends retro when we tested out the Raptor. The idea of the Battle Cloak was to offset not being able to come in for a second strike on some enemies by being able to cloak move away and reorient. But a better turn rate would off set that entirely making a BC unnecessary.

[Archived Post]

A BC on a Raptor would be a pretty big improvement tbh.....if you don't understand why then you must spend too much time carebearing it up.

[Archived Post]

BC is kewl, but not that kewl.... it just costs too much. Just look at the BOP shields and hull. U want BC get a BOP.


If you have a BC, you don't need hull and shields - you just need to boost your resistances and then cloak to escape.

A Raptor (or Defiant) with BC would be massively deadlier.

[Archived Post]

A BC on a Raptor would be a pretty big improvement tbh.....if you don't understand why then you must spend too much time carebearing it up.


Would politely disagree with you on this. Would BC make the Raptor deadly, oh hell yeah, would it make the hit and run tactic more popular on the KDF side yeah. I would rather be able to turn like an escort then like a cruiser. If they decide to either a turn rate/axis change or BC I would be fine if they decide to neither I would say maybe make ensign tac an ensign universal.

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Would politely disagree with you on this. Would BC make the Raptor deadly, oh hell yeah, would it make the hit and run tactic more popular on the KDF side yeah. I would rather be able to turn like an escort then like a cruiser. If they decide to either a turn rate/axis change or BC I would be fine if they decide to neither I would say maybe make ensign tac an ensign universal.

I agree completely. I respect everyone's viewpoint on this, but I'm personally not interested in a BoP with less turn, speed, and no Universal BO stations. I really like having my two eps consoles and would rather not give one of them up if as someone suggested earlier you lose an eng console slot. I'd lmuch prefer an increase to turn or speed and /or a universal ensign BO station.

[Archived Post]

Either an Engineering console or the ensign tac slot. Or both, both would be a good offset.

Meh, I am not of the mind that would be enough to compensate, and they would take more...therefore I must respectufully disagree that a BC is a good thing to have...I like Roach's idea best....

[Archived Post]

The Escorts offer some suggestions for how to add a new Raptor type:


The Advanced with it's Science-heavy buildout is my preferred Blueside PvE ship, particularly now that they added the multi-vector console to the game (can be applied to both the base Advanced and the new Multi-Vector). I'm quite happy with the results of swapping the Ensign slot to a Sci.

A Fleet's added survivability is also quite attractive, though not as much imho. Changing the Ensign and keeping the console layout favoring Engineering is an effective build to be sure.

Personally, I'd love a hybrid, where the Ensign slot becomes Science, and we retain the 3 Engineering consoles.

I'd LOVE to see a variant with 1 Universal console slot (so 2 Eng, 2 Sci, 4 Tac, 1 Universal) and 1 universal Ensign slot to let us be a bit more creative. At LEAST make the Ensign slot a Universal one on the Qin itself, and any other future variants, but maybe that's just me.

Barring the application of universals, I'd prefer an Advanced equivalent.



I'd also love to see the way they handled the multi-vector console come to Klingons as a Universal Battle Cloak console for both BoPs and Raptors, but to be fair I spend most of my time uncloaked because I'm fighting, not because I cant cloak. ;)

[Archived Post]

The Escorts offer some suggestions for how to add a new Raptor type:


The Advanced with it's Science-heavy buildout is my preferred Blueside PvE ship, particularly now that they added the multi-vector console to the game (can be applied to both the base Advanced and the new Multi-Vector). I'm quite happy with the results of swapping the Ensign slot to a Sci.

A Fleet's added survivability is also quite attractive, though not as much imho. Changing the Ensign and keeping the console layout favoring Engineering is an effective build to be sure.

Personally, I'd love a hybrid, where the Ensign slot becomes Science, and we retain the 3 Engineering consoles.

I'd LOVE to see a variant with 1 Universal console slot (so 2 Eng, 2 Sci, 4 Tac, 1 Universal) and 1 universal Ensign slot to let us be a bit more creative. At LEAST make the Ensign slot a Universal one on the Qin itself, and any other future variants, but maybe that's just me.

Barring the application of universals, I'd prefer an Advanced equivalent.



I'd also love to see the way they handled the multi-vector console come to Klingons as a Universal Battle Cloak console for both BoPs and Raptors, but to be fair I spend most of my time uncloaked because I'm fighting, not because I cant cloak. ;)

An added Universal console would make the ship more deadly but less survivable. I would see most people running the uni as a third eng console which is what the current VA raptor is specced at. BC is would serve a purpose but I think it would only get used sometimes so really wouldn't be much of a net gain for the raptor. I feel the raptor falls between the Defiant and Fleet but seems to turn worse than the both of them.

[Archived Post]

An added Universal console would make the ship more deadly but less survivable. I would see most people running the uni as a third eng console which is what the current VA raptor is specced at. BC is would serve a purpose but I think it would only get used sometimes so really wouldn't be much of a net gain for the raptor. I feel the raptor falls between the Defiant and Fleet but seems to turn worse than the both of them.

Aye, that seems to be the case there...

[Archived Post]

If the Qin turned better or had a LTC:engineer BOff slot I would be happy.
Heck if it just turned a fuzz better I would be happy.

[Archived Post]

If the Qin turned better or had a LTC:engineer BOff slot I would be happy.
Heck if it just turned a fuzz better I would be happy.

Here here.


Good to see you back roach.

[Archived Post]

Thanks. Glad to be back.

[Archived Post]

Good to see you back roach.

Very much so.

IMO the Raptor needs a little umpf somewhere. Whether it is BC, BO arrangement, or something but I though it was a bit soft.

[Archived Post]

Thanks. Glad to be back.

It's good to see you again.
I was worried we'd lost you permanently.

Anyway DStahl said we'd get a mix of new skins and new ships.
Maybe a decent Raptor variant will be among them.

[Archived Post]

That reminds me I need to work on my sketch of a BoP/Raptor MVAM. :D

[Archived Post]

[QUOTE=mister_dee]It's good to see you again.
I was worried we'd lost you permanently.
As was I.

Anyway DStahl said we'd get a mix of new skins and new ships.
Maybe a decent Raptor variant will be among them.
Do you have a link or something?
Sounds great and I hope so for the raptor love - as well possibly the BoP in light of recent new ships on the scene. Might be time to look it over again and maybe bring it up to base par.

[Archived Post]

Do you have a link or something?
Sounds great and I hope so for the raptor love - as well possibly the BoP in light of recent new ships on the scene. Might be time to look it over again and maybe bring it up to base par.

http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2370

Last answer at the bottom.


A: First we are looking at filling in the gaps in the KDF ship line so that there are appropriate class ships at each rank. Secondly we do have a goal to have variants of each ship eventually. For Season 4 you might see a small mixture of both, but no firm confirmation on exactly what yet (other than I can say I’ve seen a BOP variant near completion). As we get closer to Season 4 launch I can start talking about what is going to make the cut and what will come later.

So we do seem to get a mix of new ships and additional skins (at least that's the way I interepret the term "variant" in the context ot this answer).

[Archived Post]

http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2370

Last answer at the bottom.



So we do seem to get a mix of new ships and additional skins (at least that's the way I interepret the term "variant" in the context ot this answer).

I am hoping that this is the case...I mean after all...almost every Klingon ship I have come across does look the same...It kinda reminds me of when Japanese cars first arrived in America...they all...looked the same...well, not quite...at least those you could get in a different paint-job....lol :rolleyes:

[Archived Post]

I am hoping that this is the case...I mean after all...almost every Klingon ship I have come across does look the same...It kinda reminds me of when Japanese cars first arrived in America...they all...looked the same...well, not quite...at least those you could get in a different paint-job....lol :rolleyes:

Honestly, I hope so as well. SOme more modernistic designs ( and maybe some player created concepts?)

[Archived Post]

IMO the Raptor needs a little umpf somewhere. Whether it is BC, BO arrangement, or something but I though it was a bit soft.

You think so?

My latest KDF character went Raptor, and all the way through mid-captain I'm finding this to be one tough little ship. My damage output is easily on par with my BoP captain's (well in excess of 200K damage done in my last PvP match) but feels more durable, both in shields and hull strength.

I actually feel like I survive more in it (a fact I find odd, since I made very good use of battle-cloak on the BoP and thought that nothing would out-survive that). In PvE I'm finding it just as easy to solo as the BoP and naturally easier than my cruiser. I'm a fan for sure.

What specifically made you feel like it was soft, and in comparison to what?

[Archived Post]

What specifically made you feel like it was soft, and in comparison to what?

Starbases...?

Just kidding.
I'm leveling a liberated Borg Engineer on a Raptor and I intend to keep the Raptor.
It feels tougher than the Fedration escorts I played at similar levels though I admit this might be
due to the fact I'm leveling an Engineer and not a Tac as well.
People will probably laugh at my config (DBBs, BAs and Photons) but I think the ships gives
a very interesting gameplay.

But I'd nontheless not mind some alternate BO layouts, one with a LtC Engineer would be quite handy.

[Archived Post]

Starbases...?

Just kidding.
I'm leveling a liberated Borg Engineer on a Raptor and I intend to keep the Raptor.
It feels tougher than the Fedration escorts I played at similar levels though I admit this might be
due to the fact I'm leveling an Engineer and not a Tac as well.
People will probably laugh at my config (DBBs, BAs and Photons) but I think the ships gives
a very interesting gameplay.

But I'd nontheless not mind some alternate BO layouts, one with a LtC Engineer would be quite handy.

I don't know about laughing, DBB is pretty popular (I'm running three in the fore right now). I come up on top damage in PvP, making good use of Beam Overload for single targets (with a very satisfying boom to make me think I made the right choice) and Beam FAW which seems to be the flavour of the month for everyone.

If I want to play with cannons I'll just hop back in my BoP. ;)

[Archived Post]

I don't know about laughing, DBB is pretty popular (I'm running three in the fore right now). I come up on top damage in PvP, making good use of Beam Overload for single targets (with a very satisfying boom to make me think I made the right choice) and Beam FAW which seems to be the flavour of the month for everyone.

If I want to play with cannons I'll just hop back in my BoP. ;)

It's certainly encouraging to know I did not make a totally useless choice, which was irrespective of FAW btw.
Thanks.:)

[Archived Post]

I don't know about laughing, DBB is pretty popular (I'm running three in the fore right now). I come up on top damage in PvP, making good use of Beam Overload for single targets (with a very satisfying boom to make me think I made the right choice) and Beam FAW which seems to be the flavour of the month for everyone.

If I want to play with cannons I'll just hop back in my BoP. ;)

I still am using cannons w/ a DBB on my raptor.....

[Archived Post]

I still am using cannons w/ a DBB on my raptor.....

2DHCs / DBB / Torpedo. Its the classic loadout.

[Archived Post]

2DHCs / DBB / Torpedo. Its the classic loadout.

Excellent loadout for a Defiant-R, as well. I use it on both my Raptor and Def-R. :P

[Archived Post]

2DHCs / DBB / Torpedo. Its the classic loadout.

I use a Tricobalt on my tail soz I have 3 HC/1DBB up front. 2 turrets in the rear w/ the tricobalt.
If I come in and see someone w/ a shield facing down, I come in and shoot that side...lol...sneaky tricks are always the best. :)

[Archived Post]

Excellent loadout for a Defiant-R, as well. I use it on both my Raptor and Def-R. :P
No reason to fix what already works. :)

I use a Tricobalt on my tail soz I have 3 HC/1DBB up front. 2 turrets in the rear w/ the tricobalt.
If I come in and see someone w/ a shield facing down, I come in and shoot that side...lol...sneaky tricks are always the best. :) That nasty sit-n-spin reversal to let that Tric float in for a kill can be quite a surprise.:)

[Archived Post]

No reason to fix what already works. :)

That nasty sit-n-spin reversal to let that Tric float in for a kill can be quite a surprise.:)

Why else do you think I use it?....It reminds me of a line the French soldier uses in Monty Python's Holy Grail movie...about doing something ina one's general direction...lol....Klingon ones can be deadly...lolz. :eek: :D

[Archived Post]

Well with all the love Federation ships are getting to even up with Imperial warships, what love should the Raptor Get?


Turn-Rate Booster?

More Damage?

Better Armor?

Universal Ensign Slot?

A Beam Lance?

The Raptor is already sexy as hell, but still I wouldn't mind seeing some more skins.

[Archived Post]

No reason to fix what already works. :)

That nasty sit-n-spin reversal to let that Tric float in for a kill can be quite a surprise.:)


Here is a nasty surprise. When ever you see a ship sitting still on a cap point get with in 7km buff up APA, APO, GDF, FOMM, CRF, TT, Tac Fleet, decloak you should be about 1km off and once you are almost on top of the ship drop the tric. 50-75K crit through shields. It is good times I have killed Sci ships and cruisers galore with this tactic. I have even been lucky with trics against BFaW boats if you are practically at 0km

[Archived Post]

Here is a nasty surprise. When ever you see a ship sitting still on a cap point get with in 7km buff up APA, APO, GDF, FOMM, CRF, TT, Tac Fleet, decloak you should be about 1km off and once you are almost on top of the ship drop the tric. 50-75K crit through shields. It is good times I have killed Sci ships and cruisers galore with this tactic. I have even been lucky with trics against BFaW boats if you are practically at 0km

The buff up, drop cloak, and smoke 'em routine's an oldy but a goody. I think another raptor at T5 with an ensign engineering slot as opposed to the tactical one would be pretty useful.

I may have to get a DBB, since when I go for joyrides in my Raptor (I still prefer the Negh'var, and also the Vor'cha), I find with 3DHCs and a torpedo that you can't buff (tricobalt), I've got a wasted ensign slot as it stands now. Even without being specced into Raptors though, the ammount of damage on tap is obscene.