FAW DPS Builds: What in the name of the Prophets?

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Okay, so lately I've been hearing about all beam Fire At Will Cruiser setups for DPSing. From how I read a lot of this, it uses a Cruiser's broadside capacity (because of low turn rates) to use FAW to do massive damage.

This game isn't Rura Penthe, people. You need to stop smoking that warm-up stuff. This also isn't the 17th Century; broadsides went the way of the dinosaur with the Pirate and his cannons.

Seriously, what are you people thinking? That setup is riddled with flaws:
1: Power Consumption - You would seriously drain your Weapon Power, meaning that most of your other systems would have minimal power with which to work. Science BOff powers, shield capacity, speed, all of this would be significantly degraded by the use of this setup.
2: Counter-Energy Setups - It wouldn't be very hard to turn this kind of build against its user. Heck, I did it before I even heard of FAW DPS builds. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
~1 - Get Reverse Shield Polarity 2 (Turns Energy DPS into shield for 8 seconds)
~2 - Get Feedback Pulse 1 (reverses Energy damage, dealing an equal amount back to the attacker)
~3 - Pop both against a DPSer and let them crush themselves while you hit them head on with the one thing they don't pack: Torpedoes. Meanwhile, you're completely immune to their attacks. They die before they can figure out what went wrong.
3: Lack of Kinetic Damage - It tells you in the Tutorial that energy weapons do more against shields, and are typically very crappy against hull. The only time you would need energy DPS is for things with a lot of shields and bad hull, or if you're on a team where someone else can do hull damage. On it's own, this setup would be torn through.
4: Recharge Time and Shared Cooldown - Unless you're packing straight FAW as Tactical BOff powers (and even a lot even then), you won't be able to constantly maintain the DPS because of the cooldowns of the powers compared to buff duration, during which time your DPS drops and you're more vulnerable.
5: Maneuverable ships (escorts, BOPs, Sci Ships) - If your up against a more maneuverable ship, it would be just too easy to maneuver out of broadside range and cut your DPS in half. Meanwhile, they pummel you without worry. They stay out of your broadside range, and you're useless.
6: Buff-Removing Enemies - There's a few enemies in STO (A couple Hirogen ships in the Romulan Front, Jem'Hadar ships in the Cardassian Front, Breen ships in the Defera areas, plus enemy Science Captains) with this one power that you might've heard of. It's called Subnucleonic Beam. (http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Subnucleonic_Beam) In case no one knows what it does, it removes all of your buffs and lengthen's all recharges. This means you lose your FAW mid-fight, it takes longer to use, and you can't even fire as fast because it also lengthens weapon recharge. This makes that power your worst enemy. Anything with that power will render you useless and blow you to Gre'thor without a second thought.

Honestly, what are you thinking? ~True Picard Maneuver A.K.A. facepalm~

[Archived Post]

Okay, so lately I've been hearing about all beam Fire At Will Cruiser setups for DPSing. From how I read a lot of this, it uses a Cruiser's broadside capacity (because of low turn rates) to use FAW to do massive damage.

This game isn't Rura Penthe, people. You need to stop smoking that warm-up stuff. This also isn't the 17th Century; broadsides went the way of the dinosaur with the Pirate and his cannons.

lol, this is practically troll bait for me. my 8 beam array cruisers are just about the most dangerous opponent you will ever face. i can out last, and out damage basically anything.

Seriously, what are you people thinking? That setup is riddled with flaws:
1: Power Consumption - You would seriously drain your Weapon Power, meaning that most of your other systems would have minimal power with which to work. Science BOff powers, shield capacity, speed, all of this would be significantly degraded by the use of this setup.

2 common MK XII +7 to weapons consoles and the +5 to weapons borg console is a cool 19 extra power on top of what you max out at already, usual about 119 or something. that leaves you with 138 weapons power, then add EPtW III's 40 extra power (when fully speced) and your at 178, enough to run 8 beams at peek damage. its that easy. 125 is just the damage multiplier cap, not the useable energy cap. power consumption is rendered a non issue.

2: Counter-Energy Setups - It wouldn't be very hard to turn this kind of build against its user. Heck, I did it before I even heard of FAW DPS builds. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3.
~1 - Get Reverse Shield Polarity 2 (Turns Energy DPS into shield for 8 seconds)
~2 - Get Feedback Pulse 1 (reverses Energy damage, dealing an equal amount back to the attacker)
~3 - Pop both against a DPSer and let them crush themselves while you hit them head on with the one thing they don't pack: Torpedoes. Meanwhile, you're completely immune to their attacks. They die before they can figure out what went wrong.

these aren't counters, they are defenses and tactics to use against any attacker. and your vastly overstating their effectiveness.

3: Lack of Kinetic Damage - It tells you in the Tutorial that energy weapons do more against shields, and are typically very crappy against hull. The only time you would need energy DPS is for things with a lot of shields and bad hull, or if you're on a team where someone else can do hull damage. On it's own, this setup would be torn through.

the power consumption issue is solved. torpedoes are complete garbage in this game and are useless in ever situation other than a well planned escort alpha strike. energy weapons do plenty of damage to hull too.

4: Recharge Time and Shared Cooldown - Unless you're packing straight FAW as Tactical BOff powers (and even a lot even then), you won't be able to constantly maintain the DPS because of the cooldowns of the powers compared to buff duration, during which time your DPS drops and you're more vulnerable.

the cooldown after just using 1 copy of FAW is quite small. not dealing max damage does not make you more vulnerable ether.

5: Maneuverable ships (escorts, BOPs, Sci Ships) - If your up against a more maneuverable ship, it would be just too easy to maneuver out of broadside range and cut your DPS in half. Meanwhile, they pummel you without worry. They stay out of your broadside range, and you're useless.

lawl, but you should use torpedoes? with a fraction of the firing arc? even a galaxy class can keep 8 beams on any target at least 80% of the time.


6: Buff-Removing Enemies - There's a few enemies in STO (A couple Hirogen ships in the Romulan Front, Jem'Hadar ships in the Cardassian Front, Breen ships in the Defera areas, plus enemy Science Captains) with this one power that you might've heard of. It's called Subnucleonic Beam. (http://www.stowiki.org/Ability:_Subnucleonic_Beam) In case no one knows what it does, it removes all of your buffs and lengthen's all recharges. This means you lose your FAW mid-fight, it takes longer to use, and you can't even fire as fast because it also lengthens weapon recharge. This makes that power your worst enemy. Anything with that power will render you useless and blow you to Gre'thor without a second thought.

everything is vulnerable to this. science team is handy if you run a build that gets hit with it alot though.

Honestly, what are you thinking? ~True Picard Maneuver A.K.A. facepalm~

im just wondering, how often do you pvp? and how successful are you at it?

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im just wondering, how often do you pvp? and how successful are you at it?

As a policy I don't. Ever. Too many self-absorbed idiots.

Then again, now I understand the DPS setup. Everything ELSE in PvP is brainless, why not build a setup with the same concept? Go try taking a Tactical Cube with that DPS setup and THEN say it's good.

And this is why I hate PvP...

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As a policy I don't. Ever. Too many self-absorbed idiots.

Then again, now I understand the DPS setup. Everything ELSE in PvP is brainless, why not build a setup with the same concept? Go try taking a Tactical Cube with that DPS setup and THEN say it's good.

And this is why I hate PvP...

I like you very much. Care for some cookies?

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As a policy I don't. Ever. Too many self-absorbed idiots.

Then again, now I understand the DPS setup. Everything ELSE in PvP is brainless, why not build a setup with the same concept? Go try taking a Tactical Cube with that DPS setup and THEN say it's good.

And this is why I hate PvP...

Wait, wait, wait...are you serious?

A tactical cube sits there and lets you destroy it. It's brainless, and it can be out healed and out damaged by an average pug team. You can't possibly compare it to a real live player who wants to kill you.

Listen to dontdrunkimshoot, he's absolutely right about his weapons. Or go PvP for a change, and you'll see exactly why people have been crying that fire at will needs to be changed.

[Archived Post]

As a policy I don't. Ever. Too many self-absorbed idiots.

Then again, now I understand the DPS setup. Everything ELSE in PvP is brainless, why not build a setup with the same concept? Go try taking a Tactical Cube with that DPS setup and THEN say it's good.

And this is why I hate PvP...

I like you very much. Care for some cookies?

typical smug holier than thou pve only players. got his ass kicked that 1 time he pvp'ed, called everyone hackers, and they all told you L2P. if you even tried it once.

anyone good at pvp is competitive, and relatively respectful. the only people that spew garbage during a match are the super frustrated players that have done nothing but pve, think they got the game completely figured out, and then for the first time ever they get shot down in less then 10 seconds when they face another player. then they come to the forums and hate on pvp, say its dead, remove it from the game, and are generally the rudest and most full of vitriol of anyone that posts here.

the truth is you will never be 1/5 as good as a fairly competent pvp'er at this game and you know it. but your ego cant allow for you to ever be shot down, and that would mean your captain is dead and that would break your immersion. there's no helping you unless you get over it, start a new character, and pvp with him from day 1. by the time you get that character to level cap you will wonder how you ever enjoyed pve. how do i know this? i was you guys about a year ago, and i was wrong then.

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typical smug holier than thou pve only players. got his ass kicked that 1 time he pvp'ed, called everyone hackers, and they all told you L2P. if you even tried it once.

anyone good at pvp is competitive, and relatively respectful. the only people that spew garbage during a match are the super frustrated players that have done nothing but pve, think they got the game completely figured out, and then for the first time ever they get shot down in less then 10 seconds when they face another player. then they come to the forums and hate on pvp, say its dead, remove it from the game, and are generally the rudest and most full of vitriol of anyone that posts here.

the truth is you will never be 1/5 as good as a fairly competent pvp'er at this game and you know it. but your ego cant allow for you to ever be shot down, and that would mean your captain is dead and that would break your immersion. there's no helping you unless you get over it, start a new character, and pvp with him from day 1. by the time you get that character to level cap you will wonder how you ever enjoyed pve. how do i know this? i was you guys about a year ago, and i was wrong then.

I've tried PvP. I've EXCELLED at PvP, because people are what I find best to analyze. I got tired of THEM whining when I blew them up.

But the fact of the matter, on topic by the way, is that your strategy is flawed if someone knows how to demolish it. Now, EVERYONE should. This should curb people like you.

Get a real setup, nublet.

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If only it was this simple.

These are soft counters to FAW, but they are not going to stop a FAW Cruiser.

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I've tried PvP. I've EXCELLED at PvP, because people are what I find best to analyze. I got tired of THEM whining when I blew them up.

But the fact of the matter, on topic by the way, is that your strategy is flawed if someone knows how to demolish it. Now, EVERYONE should. This should curb people like you.

Get a real setup, nublet.

Aaand that's exactly the kind of attitude that shouldn't be tolerated.

Listen...RSP only lasts a couple seconds. FBP is ok in a science ship. These are not viable counters to a 5 man team of cruisers running FAW...throw in an escort and you're doubly done for. Personally I don't care if you never died once in PvP, you clearly haven't played in a while, or you'd understand the problems at hand. Spam and FAW are so bad, many of the top PvP fleets have left the game. The Hargh'peng torpedo nukes people with full shields. There are seriously unbalanced problems, and if you don't know about them, you have no room to critique people who do.

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I've tried PvP. I've EXCELLED at PvP, because people are what I find best to analyze. I got tired of THEM whining when I blew them up.

But the fact of the matter, on topic by the way, is that your strategy is flawed if someone knows how to demolish it. Now, EVERYONE should. This should curb people like you.

Get a real setup, nublet.

that is a lie, everything you have said makes it plain to see that you have no idea what your talking about and that you wouldn't last a minute in a match. there is not a single flaw in my setup, there is nothing about it that can especially be exploited. i have not lost a duel since the FAW change, which was about the time i figured out how to make energy consumption a non issue, and the rest is history.

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Could I interest ya'll in some nerve tonics?

;)

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Could I interest ya'll in some nerve tonics?

;)

Nah thanks, I have about 20 in my bank just in case I ever roll a female character ;).

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Ok, forget the over-125-superpowerbuffer to >150 because its simply gone. Use any point above 125 and your wasting skills consoles and EptW's.

Read meh post:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=213754&page=4

I think I wont have to say more.

For the fun I've put 7 single beam arrays on my escort, putting on FAW3 and whoop, my dmg stats just doubled :)

Im not complaining or anything, it was just a test run.
But for the power drain... what else can i say?
Just you know im laughing at anyone who still putting his power at 125(Theoretical value of 150> with all the Consoles and EptW1 + 2. Because it will get you no further then a very unoptimized build. (No offense, just trying to be clear.)

And well, if you still have the 'feeling' your power drop decreased, amen to that.

[Archived Post]

Ok, forget the over-125-superpowerbuffer to >150 because its simply gone. Use any point above 125 and your wasting skills consoles and EptW's.

Read meh post:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=213754&page=4

I think I wont have to say more.

For the fun I've put 7 single beam arrays on my escort, putting on FAW3 and whoop, my dmg stats just doubled :)

Im not complaining or anything, it was just a test run.
But for the power drain... what else can i say?
Just you know im laughing at anyone who still putting his power at 125(Theoretical value of 150> with all the Consoles and EptW1 + 2. Because it will get you no further then a very unoptimized build. (No offense, just trying to be clear.)

And well, if you still have the 'feeling' your power drop decreased, amen to that.

Your tests are interesting, makes me wonder if cannons and beam overload are playing by different rules then those i have found for beam arrays. with that escort, you’re not operating at nearly the weapons power my cruisers run at, still your drops are a bit low from what I’m used to. An escort doesn’t really have the luxury of keeping weapons energy buffed anyway; they are better off relying on magical damage boosting skills.

Regardless of what your tests have found, my cruiser with its ~180 weapons power can use 8 beam arrays with FAW and not have its weapons energy drop below 100. Using eps power transfer (+32 more power) gets me well above 200 weapons power and the power display doesn’t drop from 100/125 with all guns blazing.

My build IS optimized, for maximum damage. It still has plenty of survivability because i only have to use my 2 LTCOM engineering stations to keep my power sky high with EPtW III, so there’s plenty of slots left for 2 EPtS I to chain together, an RSP, AuxToStruc, ET and DEM or Warp Plasma. A TT, ST and TSS further help to keep my shields unbreachable. I laugh as i shoot down up to 2 escorts or BOPs at once.

I’ll do some testing later to see if the drains of cannons and turrets gives me vastly different results then the beams arrays give me, and see if beam overload drops me below 100 power no matter what like it did for you. You may not be speced for EPtW very well, EPtW III should give +40, EPtW II should give +32 power, EPtW I should give +24. There might be some other suboptimized factor reducing effectiveness too, who knows. Maybe the 125-150 power range doesn’t like to work like it does when you run 160+. All I know is that what im doing works like a charm.

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Feedback I (Even II) are absolute tickles and far from counters. I've unleashed full Alphas from my BoP onto FBP I packing Cruisers are shugged it off like it wasn't even there.

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Feedback I (Even II) are absolute tickles and far from counters. I've unleashed full Alphas from my BoP onto FBP I packing Cruisers are shugged it off like it wasn't even there.

Agreed, I think the only time Id use FBP would be in a science vessel or in a multi vector AE. It just doesn't give enogh of a damage return to really be useful.

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Lord-Thy & MelineAaele have written up posts before that perfectly describe how inadequate the counters to FAW are against teams of cruisers with FAW builds. Here they are:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3512465&postcount=135

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3513240&postcount=144

Also, dontdrunkimshoot, I've copied some of MarcTraider's tests in my defiant with BO3 after seeing his posts in that energy level thread in this Cruiser subforum, and they ring true. It's allowed me to free up valuable SPs from Weapon Performance and place them elsewhere. Extra weapons power just helps you recharge quicker, but using weapons bats & an EPS console instead allows you to only put points into Weapon Performance until you hit 125 weapons power naturally.

In addition, I thought using a FAW build with a cruiser (two copies of FAW, all beam arrays) was considered to be an exploit by most of us PvPers dontdrunk?

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=3513329&postcount=149

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So let me ask you guys this. I see what you're saying, from a pvp POV. I've been running THY3 on my Excelsior refit for STFs. Is FAW3 and all beams a more viable solution for STFs or should I stick with THY3?

[Archived Post]

Also, dontdrunkimshoot, I've copied some of MarcTraider's tests in my defiant with BO3 after seeing his posts in that energy level thread in this Cruiser subforum, and they ring true. It's allowed me to free up valuable SPs from Weapon Performance and place them elsewhere. Extra weapons power just helps you recharge quicker, but using weapons bats & an EPS console instead allows you to only put points into Weapon Performance until you hit 125 weapons power naturally.

In addition, I thought using a FAW build with a cruiser (two copies of FAW, all beam arrays) was considered to be an exploit by most of us PvPers dontdrunk?

for the record, i have never used 2 copies of FAW. i actually prefer flying a negvar and galaxy R (even with its 2 tactical consoles, also it usually gets greatly underestimated because so many noobs fly them), i find TT I and FAW II to be all i need, and the extra eng slot ends up being more useful in keeping me alive. i have found APB to be of limited use, it only seems to debuff hull, not the shields, and since a lone beam boat isnt all that spiky, the hull isnt hit nearly as often. when i do get hull exposed though, it doesn't last long. getting hit with 32 shots in a short time with an average of 1000+ damage a shot kills quickly enough.

i dont know what to tell you guys about your power drain, all my tests, and end of match damage scores prove the opposite. im running 8 beams, plus FAW which has even more drain, and my power never goes below 100. haven't had time to test beam overload and cannons yet, might have time tonight

So let me ask you guys this. I see what you're saying, from a pvp POV. I've been running THY3 on my Excelsior refit for STFs. Is FAW3 and all beams a more viable solution for STFs or should I stick with THY3?

any player you fight is going to be 10 times better at keeping his shield facings intact than any npc. you can usually blast an npc's shields down and keep them down long enough to nail them with a HY to the hull. all my experience with torpedoes in pvp has been frustrating. almost never does a torp make contact with the hull, and half the time there's some misfire and only 1 or no torps even launch, due to the high defense score of the opponent. as part of an escort's alpha strike torps can work, but for cruisers no.

so torps are fine against any npc, but a supper min/maxed 8 beam array extreme overcaped weapons energy cruiser is going to be most dangerous in every situation. oh and if your excelsior captain is a tac officer i'd suggest APO I, if engineer of science use FAW III.

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Im gonna get my two cents in here without soundling like a troll. I love PvP. I can handle the spamming(sci photonic fleet, carriers, mines, whatever) , and the FaW. What i cant stand is spawn camping, I dont do it its rude and your basically kicking someone while their down. FaW at first was frustrating to deal with but i worked around it. Its always the same cruiser wagon wheel gimmick. I get it. Stay on the outside and out of fireing range of all but one ship. Its not hard. In the end If you cant beat em join em and thats what i did. Switched out my escort for a Excelsior retrofit with 6 beams + two torps and FaW3 just for a little payback. It felt good. Soooooo good. So good infact with FaW3 combined with go down fighting, attack pattern alpha, and fire on my mark, that after that initial strike everyone concentrated their fire on me. I can think of no bigger complement :D (Also weapons power wasnt an issue for me in the Excelsior. I never dropped below 110)

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Most of the pretinant points have been covered, but I just wanted to point out the broadside was King of the sea right up until the 1940s when carriers supplanted battleships, and even later than that has been used by the USN battleships kept in service as enormous gunboats to support amphibious opperations. The fire arcs of cruisers are actually pretty close to early/mid 20th century warships. Which could usually bring 3-4 guns to bear forward, and 4-6 guns to bear rear, but 8+ to the sides (deduced from the most common turret arrangements).

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@lord ice.

What a horrible attitude. I hope you have read and researched the above responces bc your argument sounds like someone who hasn't pvp'd 1 match in the past 6 months.

Pvp should be 20% build 80% piloting and teamwork. Fire at will has changed that a ton. And that's what has us talkig about the power. They may change it, they may not. We come to the pvp forums to help with builds and ideas, and sometimes vent frustration, but your attitude is horrible.

If you posted to troll take it to a cube. I you want to learn how to pilot a starship pm me in game and I'll get you set up to be slapped around by a good dps cruiser. The damage is insane with faw. I won't do it, I prefer to win with strategy and not broken powers.

Have fun, Kill bad guys.
See you on the battlefield.
-CaptainHorizon
Damian Gryphon USS Kurzweil
T'Lexi USS Dresden