Gold Players - no VA token?

[Archived Post]

I know things are still being sorted out...but I want to voice my opinion here now.

I have been a subscriber since launch. I pre-ordered. I subbed for 11 months before I bought my lifetime sub, and I would still be paying a monthly sub if I hadn't.

Gold players should not be losing anything.

I thought I read dan say that gold players wouldn't lose anything in the conversion to free to play, but it does seem to me like we are losing some things.

I'll use one example, and I am sure others can add their own as well...but no free ship token at VA?

Why? What reason is involved that gold players can't get a VA ship for free as we did in the past?

It's not like a gold player is playing for free. They are paying players. Why should we be expected to pay a monthly sub AND have to buy our VA ship? Why not just buy the VA ship alone and you don't get a sub?

I don't see the reasoning behind many of the things that seem to be taken away from gold players. I'd like to see someone from Cryptic come and explain why gold players aren't rewarded for our money.

I am a reasonable person, and I know that you can't get everything for free. But this isn't something we are asking you to give us, this is something we have always had. This is something that is being taken away from us. I wouldn't even mind doing a mission to ge the token, would actually be cool, but to make us buy a ship at VA is wrong. If we are giving you money each money to play, then we should be given that token for free.

There are other examples of things being taken away, others can comment on those, but this is the most recent one that seems wrong to me. If someone at Cryptic can explain WHY it's this way, maybe I can decide better if I agree....at this point, I just see it as wrong.

Thanks.

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I have to agree with the OP here. I can understand only ONE VA token per toon. But I think what Cryptic is doing is a little extreme.

I will reserve final judgement with the final build.... if the dilitium requirement is too hefty (i.e. I should be able to buy one AT VICE Adm promotion, provided I havent squandered my dilith on other stuff as I was comming up the ranks).

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yes agree with OP 100% as I am a lifetime person from beta start along time ago LOL..I honestly believe they should leave things alone for Gold members. My wife brought up a good point, to her it seems like all these free 2 play games are geared toward people with alot of money to spend, and the poorer people are the ones who are getting shafted. Now I can say as a disabled person who can not work not because I am lazy but because I am on permanent disability I have a tight money belt that i do not go over just to play sto why i paid lifetime when i could.
Now they say gold get 400 cyrptic points a month so roughly 4 months from getting VA i can get the ship i want. Instead of us just getting it like before.
I love alot of changes that are happening Doff system is cool. some of the cosmetic fixes are nice etc. But it seems since they are going F2P alot of us are being walked all over by them and I do not think they really understand this........or maybe they do and do not care...............

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Although, I am happy to get a free token as a gold member, I am not so sure a free token is good either. My main concern with the dilithium so far is that the ore is not obtainable at a rate that will allow timely acquisition of refined dilithium. Also, I think restricting exploration to one daily is bad.

I think the story missions are rewarding skill points to much. I am of the opinion that story missions, exploration missions, and pvp should reward the same amount. I think 75 points is sufficient. Although, I do not believe pvp events rewarded skill points, but they do reward sufficient energy credits.

I think the reward for exploration mission of ore for daily exploration is okay, but they should allow exploration mission to continue to be the 3 mission reward as it has been. Then only let them reward a dilithium ore once a day, like the B'Tran did for Vice Admiral emblems.

I think regular exploration missions should reward random amounts of dilithium ore like the particle traces do currently. But if the whole point of the dilithium is to reward people for doing exploration missions and the time needed to do them, the current system does not do that. If anything it penalizes the person putting in a significant amount of time playing. Since all that is needed is to do 15 minutes of playing time once a day every 22 hours.

Thank you.

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Getting ore as well as the refine limit is bogus to me. If I am a gold player, I should not have a limit to the amount of ore I can refine, period.

I know tokens may not be a big thing to many, but it's something we have always had. Why would someone subscribe to the game...when they can save that money and just buy the ship which they will have to buy anyway?

Extra storage...more energy credit capacity? Sorry, that just isn't enough to promote subs.

As someone who also pays Champions Online, someone who subscribes...there are many and plentiful reasons to actually pay to play CO. Nothing in STO makes me want to sub.

There needs to be something that promotes subs here. A ship token isn't much, no, but it's something we have always had.

Personally, I have max level captains of all three types on Fed side, and 2 on KDF side. I have one slot left that I was going to use to make the last captain, KDF tac, when F2P went live...but I honestly would never buy a VA ship from the store. Not when I am a subscriber who already gave you my money.

Buying XP bonuses or extra ship/storage slots or even Unifrom slots...sure, no problem. I don't mind buying unoforms either...love to see some new KDF stuff there. I own all but ONE of the FED uniforms, so I have no trouble buying that either.

But those are extras, those are things you don't have to have to play the game and be competitive...a VA ship, however, is not one of those things. As you said in the Dev Blog, the ships is backbone of this game, and being a subscriber is something that should be rewarded.

Not with just tokens, but also with no limits on the very fabric of the gameplay.

I have played nearly every PW game, and they aren't really a grind. The way this game is turning, it's starting to feel very grindish to me. I hate grinds. I won't play a game that forces me to grind. KDF I accepted because I understood why it was ignored, didn't like it but understood it.

Even Champions is a grind any more. I quit City of Heroes, WoW, LotRO and a dozen other games because they were grinds that got boring. I have been loyal to STO, despite the increasing push toward grinding that has taken place over the last year.

Note to devs: Grinding DOES prolong gameplay, but not in a good way. Don't do it. More players hate it than like it.

I just want someone to explain WHY we lose our VA token if we are a subscriber? I have two accounts, and I need to understand why I should still pay the monthly sub for the other one? It would take me four months just to get enough points to buy one of those ships...I'd save a ton of money just buying it.

It's an honest question, can we get some sort of answer...? Even if it's just saying, "We got your money dude!"

[Archived Post]

I know things are still being sorted out...but I want to voice my opinion here now.

I have been a subscriber since launch. I pre-ordered. I subbed for 11 months before I bought my lifetime sub, and I would still be paying a monthly sub if I hadn't.

Gold players should not be losing anything.

I thought I read dan say that gold players wouldn't lose anything in the conversion to free to play, but it does seem to me like we are losing some things.

I'll use one example, and I am sure others can add their own as well...but no free ship token at VA?

Why? What reason is involved that gold players can't get a VA ship for free as we did in the past?

It's not like a gold player is playing for free. They are paying players. Why should we be expected to pay a monthly sub AND have to buy our VA ship? Why not just buy the VA ship alone and you don't get a sub?

I don't see the reasoning behind many of the things that seem to be taken away from gold players. I'd like to see someone from Cryptic come and explain why gold players aren't rewarded for our money.

I am a reasonable person, and I know that you can't get everything for free. But this isn't something we are asking you to give us, this is something we have always had. This is something that is being taken away from us. I wouldn't even mind doing a mission to ge the token, would actually be cool, but to make us buy a ship at VA is wrong. If we are giving you money each money to play, then we should be given that token for free.

There are other examples of things being taken away, others can comment on those, but this is the most recent one that seems wrong to me. If someone at Cryptic can explain WHY it's this way, maybe I can decide better if I agree....at this point, I just see it as wrong.

Thanks.

I always thought getting gear and ships in STO was way to easy. Nothing wrong with doing a little work.

Also remember this will mainly effect new gold players once F2P goes live. It is not like Cryptic is going to take away what we already have on the deck.

I to have played from launch and all six of my toons are fully geared out ship,equip,weapons,ground , and space. I don't see myself running up another toon until the Romulans come out... and that will be quite a long time.

Compare the Va ships to the mark 12 gear, your going to have to work at it to proclaim yourself ubber, it is no longer going to be handed to you.

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I will with-hold my judgement on whether we should have our VA tokens back until I have some idea of the obtainability of these ships once reaching end-game. If the grind/work factor is too high, then I'm going to have to support the idea of giving us our damn tokens back or some alternative option which is more palatable.

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Do I think we should get free VA ships?

In a word: No.

They are bonus ships. They are not needed to play end game content. They are not Tier 6, they are Tier 5.5. Giving us one for free was, IMHO, a mistake to start with. Cryptic has realized taht, and they are becoming purchaseable ships like any other +1 ship. I only hope they go all the way with turning them into +1 ships and make their special abilities consoles. (Stealth Console, Saucer Separation Console, and Ablative Armour Console) But we'll see.

When they open levelign up to level 60/61 which they've said they want to do with season 5, THEN give us a free VA ship token so we can get an actual T6 ship.

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Vice Admiral token must stay for if no other reason than removing it devalues everyones subscription as they end up paying for "less".
The VA token was a primary feature of the raised level cap, and as such it must still be rewarded.

Someone mentioned Champions Online, those subbers do indeed get their money worth.
They even have a crapload of costumes stuff that are completely FREE for subscribers.

However, Star Trek Online offers us absolutely NOTHING in terms of C-Store incentive of being a susbcriber.
No free ships, no free uniforms, nothing.
Keeping the VA tokens is the very least they can do.

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The VA token isn't going to happen. If you read the dev blog that had the future ship list, you would have seen that all the VA ships are C-store ships - that is, Tier 5.5.

My engineer VA on holodeck is running around in a Soveriegn-class ship and doing just fine, thanks. Thus, there's no need for a free ship at VA. Maybe, if and when they add Tier Six ships, then you may have an argument.

My advice: Be happy we got the Tier 2 through Tier 5 tokens back.

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And if you read the dev response to the backlash on the blog you will see that they said they would think on it some more.

If they are smart they will restore the tokens all the way up to VA.

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And if you read the dev response to the backlash on the blog you will see that they said they would think on it some more.

If they are smart they will restore the tokens all the way up to VA.

Again, there really wouldn't be much point. You can only fly one ship at a time, for crying out loud. Even if you do maintain a full set of ships for VA, you're still going to need dilithium to respec, last I checked. I don't know how much offhand, but still.

That's just the way I look at it, and I don't really expect Cryptic will look at it differently. After all, part of the point of free-to-play is to get folks to spend money.

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Again, there really wouldn't be much point. You can only fly one ship at a time, for crying out loud. Even if you do maintain a full set of ships for VA, you're still going to need dilithium to respec, last I checked. I don't know how much offhand, but still.

That's just the way I look at it, and I don't really expect Cryptic will look at it differently. After all, part of the point of free-to-play is to get folks to spend money.

What does how many ships you can fly have to do with anything?
You get a respec token at every rank as a Gold member and the VA ships are unique from their Rear Admiral counterparts.

The point of free-to-play is to get non-subcribers to spend money, not to fleece the subscribers.

In the end, all that matters is that subscribers don't get cheated, I.E that the VA tokens stay.

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*Start Rant*

I posted a similar topic the other day and got slammed by one user about "Wanting everything for free" He totally missed the point, but this OP has my point exactly, gold members SHOULD get to pick that ONE VA ship when they hit that rank free.. This is not wanting everything, its wanting that one ship pick we get now for actually PAYING TO PLAY THE GAME, not just emptying our credits crards into the c-store in order to best everyone else by saying Oh I already bought that..

We are getting fleeced big time, we are losing a lot from the game that we have been paying for. This fleecing and removing of ships etc and limitations should ONLY ever be appliled to the silver, not the Gold/Lifers...

*End Rant*

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I agree with the OP. Paying members current or future should not lose anything with this transition. You are basically talking about screwing the people that have kept you going all this time and it is not fair. Please bring back the VA tokens as well.

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Why should we get these ships? They are not T6 ships, they are simply the Admiral Level equivalent to the Rhode Island, TOS Connie, T3 Excelsior/Nebula, etc.

Should we get those for free because we're paying for the game?

They are 100%, absolutely, purely, optional. You do not need them to advance in the game, you do not need them to be competitive at level 51, they give you a slight edge, but that's it.

And we're not losing anything, they're not going to go to our Holodeck toons and take away our VA ships cause we didn't pay C-Store points for them. If you want a new alt you're going to have to put work into him. That is all. If you're getting close to VA on Holodeck, go back to Holodeck and spend the next couple of weeks getting him to VA so you can use your token before they go away.

If you don't think what you get for being a gold member is worth it, don't pay for it. If you're a lifer, well, you should have realized going in that there was no looking back, and you'd be stuck with whatever changes Cryptic decides to make to the game, good or bad. Besides, you get to play forever for the equivalent of 20 months of subscription. So if you became a lifer before June 2010 you are getting everything a gold member will be getting for free.

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They are just putting on their poker face thinking we are a poor hand and that theres a royal flush of F2P to make us obsolete in their money making plans. Which isn't the case I'm not one to say oh look at this game but in reality with a poor history of reviews and games with a very high reputation... Cryptic is out of its league trying to get a date with the prom queen with these standards they are trying to throw out.

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I think its amazing how the apologists dont see anything wrong with paying customers LOOSING things that are free to subscribers on live. The Point of F2P is to get Silver members to spend money not nickle and dime paying subscribers.

I wouldnt have a problem with F2P if it didnt severely degrade the experience from where it currently is on Live, but it does, the game is much worse off for actual paying subscribers then it is right now. Your paying the same amount, why settle for less?

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Quite frankly I don't even understand why the apologists bother posting.
I mean they are obviously fine with things either way and do not care, so why even argue?

If Cryptic decides to listen to the feedback and keep the VA tokens then thats a win for everyone, so why work against it?

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Because in my opinion it's not a win. Like I said above, giving the VA ship token in the first place was, IMHO, a mistake. And this is the perfect oportunity for Cryptic to fix that mistake.

Frankly, I see people complaining about losing their ship tokens and, horror or horrors, actually having to put some work into the game and I just find it sad. I don't want a game where everything's handed to me on a silver platter. That's not fun, or at least, that's not a game. The reason I left STO the first time was because there was no challenge, I was max level within about 2 weeks, with every mission in the game done, and a T5 ship (best at the time) fully kitted out with purples.

And to be honest, your avatars don't do much to convince me that your opinion should matter, a giant "anti-cryptic" sign, to me, just says that no matter what Cryptic did you wouldn't be happy.

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And to be honest, your avatars don't do much to convince me that your opinion should matter, a giant "anti-cryptic" sign, to me, just says that no matter what Cryptic did you wouldn't be happy.

Call me an apologist, but I agree with that statement. Frankly, I don't even know WHAT a VA token is for I don't even think we ever had one. I thought we got our T5 ships when we became a rear admiral. The only ships that are considered VA level ships were the small set of ships which were obtainable through 500 emblems or thru C-Store purchases. The only issue I have now is the fact they took out the non-Cstore method of obtaining those ships. Now you must spend C-Points, whether you trade dilithium for Cpoints from someone else or buy them on your own.

I personally always spent CStore points to get my dreadnaught and imperial class skin among other things(which ironically I never use), but I feel the option to get them for free should remain. I do like the fact you can trade dilithium for someone else's cpoints, similarly allowing you to get em for free, but it seems like an un-necessary step.

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I personally always spent CStore points to get my dreadnaught and imperial class skin among other things(which ironically I never use), but I feel the option to get them for free should remain. I do like the fact you can trade dilithium for someone else's cpoints, similarly allowing you to get em for free, but it seems like an un-necessary step.

I think the Dilithium->C-store option is a good compromise for Cryptic. People want things for free, they want to not go out of business. This way, people can still grind stuff for free, but they'll get money from it somewhere along the line.

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Because in my opinion it's not a win. Like I said above, giving the VA ship token in the first place was, IMHO, a mistake. And this is the perfect oportunity for Cryptic to fix that mistake.

Frankly, I see people complaining about losing their ship tokens and, horror or horrors, actually having to put some work into the game and I just find it sad. I don't want a game where everything's handed to me on a silver platter. That's not fun, or at least, that's not a game. The reason I left STO the first time was because there was no challenge, I was max level within about 2 weeks, with every mission in the game done, and a T5 ship (best at the time) fully kitted out with purples.

And to be honest, your avatars don't do much to convince me that your opinion should matter, a giant "anti-cryptic" sign, to me, just says that no matter what Cryptic did you wouldn't be happy.

Anti Cryptic sign is a visible sign of displeasure with the current situation. Many people could say the same thing about Apologists, that their opinion doesnt matter because like good children they blindly find everything being done good and cant see faults.

The problem is taking away things from people that are currently on live, When I got to VA on live, I got a FREE ship, if you didnt want to use it and rather buy it thats your problem.

F2p transition shouldnt make things worse for gold customers, it should make it better. Silver is fine, they are playing for free but dont take things away from gold players.

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Call me an apologist, but I agree with that statement. Frankly, I don't even know WHAT a VA token is for I don't even think we ever had one.

happened to be that ship plaque you got at level 51 from quinn that allowed you to get a defiant, galaxy, or intrepid retro for free without using 500 emblems or C-points, it's something that's been in the game since I've been playing, and thats approaching 400 days.

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happened to be that ship plaque you got at level 51 from quinn that allowed you to get a defiant, galaxy, or intrepid retro for free without using 500 emblems or C-points, it's something that's been in the game since I've been playing, and thats approaching 400 days.

I don't ever remember something like that. It's been a while since I obtained VA, which I did shortly after the level cap was increased

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I don't ever remember something like that. It's been a while since I obtained VA, which I did shortly after the level cap was increased

I've been playing since launch and I got my VA plaque and a Free ship too as have all my friends, its not anyone elses fault but yours if you didnt realize you had one and spent real money.

Doesnt mean out of the blue all subscribers should have to buy a ship at cap, its a greedy move and it reduces the experience all players have right now.

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I've been playing since launch and I got my VA plaque and a Free ship too as have all my friends, its not anyone elses fault but yours if you didnt realize you had one and spent real money.

Doesnt mean out of the blue all subscribers should have to buy a ship at cap, its a greedy move and it reduces the experience all players have right now.

I could have gotten a ship with my token for free and just don't remember it...no need to get antagonistic.

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Basically - When you leveled to RA-UL you got a ship token. If you spent it then you had to buy a VA ship via 500 emblems or c-store points.

However, if you did NOT spend that ship token till you reached VA you got to turn it in for a VA ship.

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Basically - When you leveled to RA-UL you got a ship token. If you spent it then you had to buy a VA ship via 500 emblems or c-store points.

However, if you did NOT spend that ship token till you reached VA you got to turn it in for a VA ship.

Ahh that makes sense. Explains why I'm somewhat confused here -- idk what I spent the token on but I know I spent it on something. Whether it was a VA ship or not, I can't remember

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I could have gotten a ship with my token for free and just don't remember it...no need to get antagonistic.

No more antagonistic then you were, your statement implied everyone should spend money for T5s because you did. The point stands though, giving subscribers a worse experience then is available on live is a bad way to go.

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I personally always spent CStore points to get my dreadnaught and imperial class skin among other things(which ironically I never use), but I feel the option to get them for free should remain. I do like the fact you can trade dilithium for someone else's cpoints, similarly allowing you to get em for free, but it seems like an un-necessary step.

No more antagonistic then you were, your statement implied everyone should spend money for T5s because you did. The point stands though, giving subscribers a worse experience then is available on live is a bad way to go.

Reread the highlighted portions and tell me where I implied everyone should pay cuz I did.

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Can't wait to see all the "I didn't get the console for my already owned VA Refit Ship" posts once they retire the "vanilla" version VA ships for the "gotta have a reason to put a sticker price on em so here's a console replacement for their inherent ability" versions of the ships.

One of my Captains owns and flies an Intrepid - R . . . dreading what I might have to go through if the transition gets glitchy.

Really hate when Devs "fix" things that ain't broke.

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No more antagonistic then you were, your statement implied everyone should spend money for T5s because you did. The point stands though, giving subscribers a worse experience then is available on live is a bad way to go.

Apart from "we used to get it for free and now we actually have to put some effort in to getting it" how does taking away a VA ship make the experience worse?

Will you not be able to finish missions if you're in an RA ship? Will you not be competitive at PvP in an RA ship? To me you just seem to be upset that you'll actually have to put in some effort to get new gear. Go play another MMO, they make you (oh my stars and garters) WORK for the latest and greatest gear when you level. I know, it seems like a radical idea, but most games don't just hand you everything on a silver platter. If anything Cryptic is still easier than most because if you don't want to work for your stuff and grind out the dilithium you can just whip out your credit card and buy it directly.

Anti Cryptic sign is a visible sign of displeasure with the current situation. Many people could say the same thing about Apologists, that their opinion doesnt matter because like good children they blindly find everything being done good and cant see faults.

Except I can see faults, when they first launched and didn't have the discount plate I thought that was a very bad idea. But by the time I was going to complain about it Cryptic had already said they had messed up and were going to fix that. I think the mission chaining is an inherently bad idea in its current implementation. While th DOFF system is good it needs some polishing.

However, while those are problems I feel needs to be addressed, if I was upset enough to put up a giant Anti-Cryptic avatar as my Avatar on the official Cryptic forums, I would just stop playing the game.

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Why stop playing if there is a chance to instigate change?
Change has already happened from feedback and campaigning, with determinatation and luck it will continue to happen.

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Why stop playing if there is a chance to instigate change?
Change has already happened from feedback and campaigning, with determinatation and luck it will continue to happen.

Exactly, if you believe in something you fight to make it better, not just accept the 'status quo". I've been playing STO since beta and though there have been things i wasnt pleased with and have been critical at times of cryptic I've been rather pleased with the whole experience and for a long time didnt feel the need to even post under the Administration of DStahl who did a great job at understanding what most players want.

But this F2P build is very much like a "New Game Experience" that destroyed SWG. That also destroys alot of what makes the game fun on Live, so thats good enough reason to be upset and try to fight to preserve the experience subscribers currently get. I know some people probaly dont care but alot of people dont like things being taken away from them when they pay for a service. Paying more for less is just foolish.

I will happily take down my anti cryptic sign when the new management stops trying to turn STO in a boring, lifeless grind fest that seems them wanting to milk money from people that Subscribers have to deal with along with the F2P players.

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You're complaining that they're taking away a toy.

Do you complain that if they make a new alt you can't get teh Breen or Reman BOFF anymore? Or the Crossfire Tribble?

There is not meaningful benefit to the RA ships apart from the fact that they have an interesting ability. And now, those abilities will be transferable to other ships. If anything they've made things better for any characters you have which have already bought the VA ships, and made things marginally more difficult for any new characters you decide to create.

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Apart from "we used to get it for free and now we actually have to put some effort in to getting it" how does taking away a VA ship make the experience worse?

Will you not be able to finish missions if you're in an RA ship? Will you not be competitive at PvP in an RA ship? To me you just seem to be upset that you'll actually have to put in some effort to get new gear. Go play another MMO, they make you (oh my stars and garters) WORK for the latest and greatest gear when you level. I know, it seems like a radical idea, but most games don't just hand you everything on a silver platter. If anything Cryptic is still easier than most because if you don't want to work for your stuff and grind out the dilithium you can just whip out your credit card and buy it directly.

I think thats the point ALexraptor was trying to drive home, he likes the ability to grind out 500 vet emblems to get it. With the New changes, you won't be ABLE to work for it, just Purchase it with CP.

Doing Dilithium trade means someone bought your stuff, so the ship still isn't free in that instance.

If Cryptic want to be fair, or at least stay the way they have it now, the ships should be available in Dilithium as well as purchaseable from the C-store. The idea is that purchase from the C-store was a account wide unlock, and buying it with emblems, or this case dilithium, would be a one time character purchase. so even if you wanted another on another toon, you had to grind up some more emblems, or dilithium in this case.

the free token was so you would get your FIRST VA ship on that character one time, much like the emblems did.

By making them "C-store ships only" it takes the "being able to work for it" out of the equation, because whether i buy it myself, or gather dilithium to trade for CP, the ship was still payed for with real money in either case.

You're complaining that they're taking away a toy.

Do you complain that if they make a new alt you can't get teh Breen or Reman BOFF anymore? Or the Crossfire Tribble?

There is not meaningful benefit to the RA ships apart from the fact that they have an interesting ability. And now, those abilities will be transferable to other ships. If anything they've made things better for any characters you have which have already bought the VA ships, and made things marginally more difficult for any new characters you decide to create.

The Breen and Reman BOFFS were limited time items to begin with, Cryptic told us that WAAAAY in advance of the arcs that they are in. Thats different, the VA tokens were never to be a limited time resource that would go away, after a fashion.

And when I just look at what it is Cryptic is doing, moving 11 Ships from FREE to C-store, and NOT replacing them with anything, just leaving an empty hole in the matrix, that is kinda messed up. At least replace the VAs with FREE ones.

As far as the "They are T5.5s and optional", That's only for now, when the Level Cap gets raised, those ships will receive a buff of some sort to do VA1-10, course I'm sure we will have this argument again when it comes to FA level ships and their respective things.

-Æ

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Doing Dilithium trade means someone bought your stuff, so the ship still isn't free in that instance.

By making them "C-store ships only" it takes the "being able to work for it" out of the equation, because whether i buy it myself, or gather dilithium to trade for CP, the ship was still payed for with real money in either case.

Yes, but you didn't pay for it, so why do you care? I'm betting alot of the C-Store points that end up on the exchange won't even be ones that were bought, I bet alot of Gold members who already bought everything they want from the C-Store are going to be putting their stipend up there.

That's another thing, you can still get it free if you're a gold member, it's just a question of time. 1600 C-point? That's 4 months of stipend. Or know three gold member friends who don't have any use for their stipend or Dilithium? Trade them 1 Dilithium for their entire stipend. You have just "gound out" that VA ship, and all it took you was 30m of DOFF assignment.

And like I said before if you've been a lifer for more than 20 months (and at least two of my opponents in this argument are lifers, and one of them has stated he's played since launch) I will not accept the "but we're paying for it" card. You are not paying for anything. As soon as you hit 20 months as a lifer you are getting everything that gold players get for free.

As far as the "They are T5.5s and optional", That's only for now, when the Level Cap gets raised, those ships will receive a buff of some sort to do VA1-10, course I'm sure we will have this argument again when it comes to FA level ships and their respective things.

And when they raise the level cap and introduce proper T6 ships THEN they should re-add the free VA ship token for gold players. The retrofit ships should at this point simply be made available to RA as C-Store ships. They're not VA ships, and they're no longer special enough to merit the higher level requirement to use them.

[Archived Post]

I'm still not understanding why any Ship Tokens had to go at all.

First, they replaced the removed Tokens with Dilithium stipends for ranking up. Why? "Let's remove this established way of getting your new ship with a different way of getting your ship". Why bother?

Then, they added the Ship Tokens back at every rank for Gold Members and the early ranks for Silvers but had to remove the VA Token for Golds so Silvers couldn't abuse the system to get a free one, too. Again, why create problems for yourself by "fixing" a system that ain't broke.

Here's an idea, just leave all the Ship Tokens for all players . . . we don't need Dilithium Stipends if we just have a Token. You don't have to put in safegaurds against abuse by just leaving the Ship Token system in place as it already is.

Each day I'm liking this new econmy garbage less and less.

[Archived Post]

Exactly, why did any ship tokens have to be taken away?

And Feor, you seemed to miss my point. My point is that they clearly said we wouldn't lose anything in the transition...but here is something we are losing. And you are only kidding yourself if you think that the Retrofit ships don't make a difference over a non-retro RA ship.

If they don't make a difference, why are they for sale in the store?

And even if they don't "make a huge difference", they were given to us and now they aren't. That is taking something away, which is what my post was about.

Also, consider this. The Romulans are on the radar, supposedly coming next year if the schedule stays the same. While I won't be hurt much by a missing VA token now, having FED and KDF officers maxed out already...I would be missing it when the Rommies come around.

Also, I am not asking for everyone to get the token, only the payhing players. Why shouldn't I expect to put in less work for a ship if I am a subscriber.

Let's look at the facts, currently.

With Ore refinement being 8000 a day, how quickly can you farm for a ship? Even if you get the ore you need many days to refine it all.

Ships are the most important part of the game, and as a subscriber why shouldn't I get easier access them? If I am free to play, fine...make me work for it. That is what I expect if I don't want to pay to play. But I would like to think that my loyalty of subscription would be rewarded with something...

Silver players don't have to spend a dime to play, that means that someone with a gold subscription is not only paying for thier own access to the game but also for many of those silver players as well. Sure, many will buy points...but most won't. Most will never consider it. Shouldn't these people who are paying a sub be given more for their money? Why wouldn't you want more than a free player?

Ships up to the highest don't really even bother me. End game content and PvP require the highest ships in the game. If they are going to give us more end game content as they claim, then that means even more reason to have the best ships and gear.

Working for the gear, I have no problem with, but as I said already, ships are the most important part of being a captain in this game.

Look, I am not asking for something more than what I have already. I am only asking that they don't take away what we have already. What does that hurt?

If they want to remove the refine limit for gold players, I can deal with the token being gone. Getting ore isn't easy, currently, so I don't see why gold players are limited anyway.

Currently, it will be a grind to get ships and gear at the highest levels. I don't want a grind. I won't grind. That means I won't spend my money on this game. Sadly, many others won't either. If this is what they think makes up for end game content, it's unacceptable.

What reason does anyone have to subscribe the way things are now? That is what I am asking...because I am not seeing it. 400 points a month isn't $15 bucks...and sadly, it seems I need to spend much more than that to get what I need in game, so why would I want to sub on top of it?

I am not talking about new content either, I am talking about existing content.

Just don't take things away from us, Cryptic, that is all I am saying.