New STF rewards ABSURD (Valid, logical discussion, DEVS please consider)

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I'm sure many other have argued this topic already, but I wanted to make a new shiny post just for the Devs to go along with their new shiny armor.

The concept that we have to grind the STFs over and over again to accumulate enough chips to purchase the items is annoying, but it's something the players can deal with, myself included since the mk XI gear is (an extremely small percentage) better than the Purple mk XI gear I have currently which until now was the best in the game.

I also concede that players grudging through the Elite STFs should get something even better for their troubles, hence the existence of the mk XII gear. HOWEVER... they grudge through Elite only for a CHANCE to get the drop needed to earn their armor... Entirely unacceptable when you consider they could lose the roll for the drop every single time that it does drop from a mob. So YES this needs to be fixed now, and not later.

That note is not for me, as I do not plan to play through the headache of Elite right now, I want this solely fixed for my fellow players.

I'm not finished yet though... ( this is more besides the point, more of my personal hopes for the future)

I've been grinding like everyone else for the Encrypted Data Chips... Now I did notice it was slightly odd that the Devs didn't release much info on the new gears, but I figured hey, you see exactly what your getting from the store on DS9, and you can see the stats, so that's all you need... (though pictures of the visual effects of the ship gear would have been nice). Only now that I discover that even after grinding 120 EDCs and purchasing all 3 ground gears of a set including Armor, Shield, and Weapon for mk XI sets, this does not indeed unlock the armor we see the NPCs wearing in the store, in fact it only unlocks the body visuals (partially) with no helmet, making it basically what all armor looks like with visuals enabled...

I understand giving even unique visuals to the people who are lucky and vigilant enough to get the Elite drops... but... this dear sirs is false advertising, you show us only the NPC models wearing the armor as our guide to what the sets look like, and so we expect to be earning just that. This is the opinion of all I've spoken with.

As a long time veteran player and lifetime member who purchases cstore credits and has stuck with this game for a long time and defended it even with the lack of new content and end game content... I honestly expect more, and I demand more, as my time, effort, and money are worth more than what your trading me for it. I would expect this from the Ferengi, but I hoped for more from you Cryptic, you who I placed faith in when I decided to become a lifetime member...

This forum is the same as the United States government, in that a single voice is almost never heard and truly accepted, but I know others feel the same way, and with enough of us outraged at this, I absolutely do expect you to correct these errors that you've made in the development of this release.

I do thank you for your efforts in releasing new content into the game, so please don't think me to be ungrateful, as you could have simply left it as it was and not added anything at all. But consider the argument while placing yourself in my shoes, wouldn't you be disappointed as well after becoming excited about wearing that new shiny armor, and spending hours and hours grinding what you thought was going to pay off with that shiny armor in the end, only to find out that it was all in vain and that everything you've gathered during all that time could only get you a consolation prize that in no way makes it any better at all?

I will not be participating in anymore STFs until this is corrected, though I will keep my EDCs intact in hopes that you will hear the wisdom in this argument.

I thank you for reading, and I hope this was not in vain as well.

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Nerd rage defined ^ Sounds like you really want that gear. :p

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The Elite gear is designed to take months to acquire, not two weeks.

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In all honesty, after the frustration I've sort of stop caring about getting it myself, it's only after hearing so many of my fleet mates discuss it that I come to this point, as several of them are trying for the Elite armor, and I think they are really the ones getting the short end of the stick, but yes I did add my own opinions as well.

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Reply to: rlaffargue

I'm saddened by the fact that you took this post in that way, and failed to see what I was trying to explain, and I would hope that in the future your not so quick to judge such things as "nerd rage"...

Reply to: Kostamojen

Agreed Elite gear should take time to earn, but the argument is that the players making the effort aren't truly being rewarded for the large amount of attempts they are making, I've talked to players who's put in 40+ passes already on one STF Elite gound mission, and still hasn't had a single drop, and has only received a few drops of other equipment for his troubles... I don't see how this is logical, as any other MMO, a group makes a raid, and there is 1 drop of a certain item, and they choose who gets it, but with this setup, sometimes the item doesn't drop at all.

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Totally agree here. I mean why would the MK XI gear not have all the visuals of the set as they are seen on NPC'S in DS9. It just makes no sense. It seems mean to me, by the developers to cut the players short in that case. (waiting more than a year for content...and then u get this)
Elite STF's are broken, because nobody up to now has done the 15 min bonus mission. (plz proof me wrong) And I know there are some very good captains out there, and even those pople can't do it. Elite missions right now are just a 1hour zerging at the respawn point until the final cube is down. (tactical cubes 1-shot cruisers with a 100k overkill = insane)
Definitely work in progress i would say.
The reward system also needs some reconsidering. I suggest to trade the rare borg salvage for 10 encrypted data chips, or 20 rare borg salvages for 1 prototype borg technology.


PS: I do know, that cryptic implemented this type of grind content to give the community something to do until the real content arrives. Unfortunately everything sweet they implement comes with an unnecessary bitter pill and i dont know why that has to be like this.

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The Elite space missions are as stated already a exercise in frustration. My added comment is in that given the additional bugs makes it even more so. How many of us have had the pleasure of using a power only to have it not have any effect but the cool down has been started. The fact that the AI seems to have the luxury of not playing by the same rules we are. I wished my ship was able to throw out tractor beams with the same rate they are, yes I know they are able to have more then 1 ability of this but combined with the torp spread the beam overloads it becomes a point of insanity. I am all for a a challenge but combine this with a known group of seasoned players with top gear, spec'd ships, elite bridge officers i mean totally tweaked ships and are unable to complete the mission is a bit much to take.

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The other problem is the sharp difficulty Curve between Normal and Elite. I know I was caught by surprise the first time. I knew there were suppose to be changes but I was thinking things like Ra vs. VA under the old system and maybe the bridges removed at the end of infected. I wasn't expecting injuries as well. I went in the first time unprepared.

As far as damage is concerned I would be ok with the 144000 damage one shot kills if I had the possibility to one shot kill them.

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Totally agree with you man, I'm just going for the Mark XI Common for now then possibly the sets but in all seriousness running as many Elite STF's as it would take is a huge turn-off

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im not even interested in the new gear.none of it interests me and it takes to long to acquire for my lack of interest to be negated.only way they will see me start a grindfest for one of these sets is if one of them was a borg ground set.(borg space set still best)

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If I understand correctly, the elite gear is not always dropping in these elite STFs. At least one piece should be guaranteed to drop each run. But if you are suggesting that each player in the STF get a piece of gear on every run, then I am against that.

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The problem with mk xii

1: due to it being a super rare drop you may NEVER get a set together even if the game runs for years

2: you may keep getting the same piece over and over.


They really should make it obtainable with tokens, either by:

80 EDC a piece
or
you can trade in 10 or maybe rare borg salvage for 1 prototype

That wouls make it as cryptic are always telling us......as TIME BASED rewards that directly work inline with how much you play the game.

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I have run a HUGE # of STFs and not a single crit drop. Also I think the game hates me every single time I roll on something, I only roll single digit #s. I have NEVER once rolled a 2 digit number for anything. SO even if there is a crit drop. I never get one. So I just get the data chips and go on my way.

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The part that worries me is if you have a mk XI Set completed and you get only one peice of mk XII of the same set type will it break the last set bonus.

I'm thinking of the Breen set as an example of this. In that set it works the Following way:
If you have
Dielectric Oscillation Resilient Shields Mk X
Polarized Parabolic Deflector Mk X
Supercooled Combat Impulse Engine Mk X

You get the following passives
Superconducting Phase Channels
Breen Energy Dissipator

But if you replace any one of those with the mk XI after even though they are from the same sets the difference in mark removes the Breen Energy Dissipator.

To me this make me wonder if I were to get the complete M.A.C.O. set at Mk XI if I were to happen to get a Mk XII Piece of the M.A.C.O. set would it break one of the 2 passive buffs since the description specifies mark value.

If that is the case even if I were to randomly get one of the MK XII piece I might not use it in favor of the complete MK XI set just to retain the buff. To me that would make the grind for new gear even longer to reap the rewards of the effort.

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Some things are going to be for the few. Do I want the cool Mk XII gear? Sure. I'm also fine with only a very few people having it.

There are many different ways that people play games. There are "casuals", "hard core", and in between. Like a lot of other players, I fall somewhere in the middle. However for those that play a crazy amount, it's nice for the game to offer them some sort of reward. I see the Mk. XII gear as that reward.

Right now, my goal is to get enough [Borg] equipment for myself and my fleet so we might be able to tackle the Elite STF without people quitting in frustration.

Things like that definitely require a dedicated crew though. The early days of Molten Core (the first big raid in World of ********) had my guild taking 11 hours. By the time we were done with it, we were doing 2 hour speed runs. I'm sure the same thing can happen with Elite STF.

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Elite STF's are broken, because nobody up to now has done the 15 min bonus mission. (plz proof me wrong)

KA elite ground optional is very possible with a good crew. Done it myself several times.
Its the best balanced ground STF currently.

Cure, maybe .....

Infected the normal optional is already bone hard, don't see it done on elite.

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Done ka ground elite optional on 2 chars. Its only optional doable from elite ones. and i have best gear possible pre season 5 on my chars. And timer is realy steep ocne was 15s left and again 1s left. My 3rd and last char was 2s late for optinal.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raudl View Post
Elite STF's are broken, because nobody up to now has done the 15 min bonus mission. (plz proof me wrong)
KA elite ground optional is very possible with a good crew. Done it myself several times.
Its the best balanced ground STF currently.

Cure, maybe .....

Infected the normal optional is already bone hard, don't see it done on elite.


yeah agreed, i had the pleasure of KA today, and even though we didnt finish the bonus, I had the feeling it was doable. Would be perfect if all STF's were on that difficulty level, or a little higher. I consider myself also a gamer between casual an hardcore, but right now i dont see a way for me to ever obtain mark XII, but not because i dont have the time to do elites, its just too frustrating to do one.
So i sure hope cryptic will tune the elite Stf's and the lootsystem to a less frustrating and randomized gaming experiance.

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Honestly I'm fine with how the STF's are set up now. It used to be you only did them once, and never touched it again unless you had a fleet mate that needed the gear. Here at least I can see a couple of benefits.

1. It takes longer to acquire the gear itself, having you take more time on your character and getting more comfortable with your character in general. I've got so many characters now just because of shear boredom in the previous 6 months. If I had at least something like the STF's to grind for gear I wouldn't have made so many and probably would have spent more time focusing on the characters I already had.

2. People will become more familiar with the STF's. Everyone hate's going into PUG STF groups with people who don't know what's going on. It's not their fault, but just an unfortunate side effect. If people now have to grind the STF's it can only mean people will become more knowledgeable about what to do, thus making a larger amount of STO players confident and able to do them.

3. With people more used to their characters play style, and used to working as a team because of these changes you will start to see people venturing out more and doing the elite versions as well. Which in turn will help everyone get a shot at the good XII gear.

These are just a few of the benefits I can see from having to grind out the STF's. I'm sure there are plenty more, but just to make a point here. I'm really enjoying the chance to play my characters more and help people though the STF's, as should a lot of the more veteran players like myself.

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With the way the system is set up now there is absolutely no incentive to do the STFs. I've played two since S5 went live and I don't plan on playing any more. If there isn't going to be a guaranteed reward for spending my time (and EC on supplies) to do the missions then why should I do them?

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With the way the system is set up now there is absolutely no incentive to do the STFs. I've played two since S5 went live and I don't plan on playing any more. If there isn't going to be a guaranteed reward for spending my time (and EC on supplies) to do the missions then why should I do them?

You get Dilithium and Borg Chips. What other guarantee do you need? If you do the right STF's on the right day you get double rewards as well. Sounds like plenty of reasons to do it.

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yea but elite STF's are definatly a bird of a different color...

Tried to get started on Elite STF's yesterday.. here I am running around in the full Mk XI Honor Guard ground set, the Borg medical analyser Mk X kit, with the all about the offence phsisists kit in my back pocket... .. got my tribble of borg..stacks of medical supplies on my lovely Orion SCI, and I suspect I was one of the best geared in the party and I was getting utterly one shotted by the elite Tactical drones and three shotted by the regular tactical drones. doing the cure ground. We didn't even get past the first gate after 25 min, and everyone KNEW what they were doing. The stats that are supposedly specifcly for fighting the borg didn't seem to do a lot of good. And apparently the "Static Grenades" that i'd been so carefully hoarding were utterly useless.

Honestly it felt like that scene out of Mars Attacks when the US launches a nuc at the martian invasion fleet.. Ya know the one where they suck up the detonation in some sort of giant ballon thingy and then toke up with it...

I'd throw down Electro Gravitic Field III, Exothermic Induction Field III, whip a photon grenade out from the under slung launcher of my lovely KDF Honor Guard Pulsewave Rifle Mk XI.. and I swear the borg snagged marsmellows and wienies and roasted them up while waiting for the root to wear off. Oh and as a side line waiting for thier snack wiped out the party.

I hope this stuff get fixed real real real soon.

Oh well, I said before they brought the build to Holodeck that it wasn't anywhere near ready yet, and that it wouldn't be ready for prime time by January 17th and I stand by what I said..

"To ambitious a scedule"

Maybe someday the marketting types and the suits will LISTEN to QC and the testers and get real conservative about whats going to happen when. *sigh* Still a few bug in the very complex DOFF system.. This issue with costumes and artwork. Elite STF's being a bit beyond silly hard... The Cure is IMHO undoable... other then my the most elite and practiced of teams.. and good luck getting the bonus loot... There issues with the event scedule, and apparently several of the KDF missions are borked again...
... Funny, I thought they were fixed... boy guess I was wrong! Got a patch today, looked atthe release notes.. real minor stuff...

Honestly I do admire the hard work the dev team puts in for all my griping, *****ing and carping, but while all the things they are doing are nice, and coll..the ones that aren't fubared that is.. whatthe game needs more then anyting else is mission content... Its real hard to get excited about "where STO is going" when I see the unfinished and half done stuff.. like KDF mission and progression content.. thats is still on the to-do list 22 months ggoing on 23 after the original launch. I guess what there doing is what they "Can" do.

Drop rate is not all that good on the normal STF's, and right now I am not sure the elite stf's are all that much worth doing...considering the difficulty of them, and throwing in the far less then sterling drop rates..
.. maybe we'll see some stuff during the winter/holiday events that'll make up for it..

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I agree with Khemarra's assesment of the Elite versions on the STF.
Normal is kinda easy...especially compared to the older versions of these missions...
The Elite is ungodly difficult.
Perhaps a compromise is in order...

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You get Dilithium and Borg Chips. What other guarantee do you need? If you do the right STF's on the right day you get double rewards as well. Sounds like plenty of reasons to do it.

Dilithium... that I can get from DOff missions which require no effort on my part.

and

Borg Chips... which can (eventually) be used to buy gear that isn't of any higher quality than the purple MK XI stuff I've already got.

Again, what incentive?

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Waitasecond... did you say that the Veteran MACO and Omega Force gear doesn't show up as a costume?

I thought it was only Mk X that didn't show up as such.


As for my opinion, it still stands. The loot system is too stingy. Tweak the odds. Don't go overboard, just give them a little tweak so we only have to run the Elite STF's a few times each instead of say.... what we have now, which is 40+ without a single prototype salvage in sight.

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At 1 time people didn't do a special task force because a they were too long or B they were too hard. Now they can come in to a special task force into nothing and still get the reward. We should have the ability to vote the player from the map. Just because you can enter a mission doesn't mean you should. People should learn how to play the game before they join a special task force it cause other people to work either at achieving the optional mission.

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KA elite ground optional is very possible with a good crew. Done it myself several times.
Its the best balanced ground STF currently.

Cure, maybe .....

Infected the normal optional is already bone hard, don't see it done on elite.
Did the Infected secondary twice yesterday on Elite. One time with a pug group, the other with two fleetmates and two randoms.

That first pug group was all well armed tac captains (one in a cruiser, rest in Escorts) and everyone killed the nanite spheres as soon as they appeared. Finished with 1:30 on the clock.

The second time wasn't as clean, killed the final tac cube with 5 seconds left on the clock! It was glorious.


KA is possible. Cure right now is impossible to get the secondary, but I might try again with a better group eventually.

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I'd hardly call one or two datachips a substantial reward, considering the new sets are 40 EDC per component.

I can't agree with you Gatsie. The idea of being able to vote people out seems elitist to me, and I don't like it.

I rather like that the STF's are broken up. That way, I don't have to plan my life around finding the time to do a 3h+ raid. I have friends who play WoW that are like that, and it's annoying when they can't or won't come out because 'they have a raid planned'.

Making missions too long becomes less of a fun game and more of a true disruption on your life.

Life happens. Maybe someone rings the doorbell or comes by. Emergencies come up. You know how crappy it is to flush multiple hours of effort down the tubes because life gets in the way?

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I'd hardly call one or two datachips a substantial reward, considering the new sets are 40 EDC per component.

I can't agree with you Gatsie. The idea of being able to vote people out seems elitist to me, and I don't like it.

I rather like that the STF's are broken up. That way, I don't have to plan my life around finding the time to do a 3h+ raid. I have friends who play WoW that are like that, and it's annoying when they can't or won't come out because 'they have a raid planned'.

If STFs are taking you 3 hours you are running with the wrong group. Before the changes we were able to complete each one in under 2 hours. We had Cure down to a run-n-gun 45mins. We are not even the best out there... just a group of reasonably good players.

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I must thank everyone for your opinions and support, I truly hope we are being heard here. Everyone is hitting on vital points, all with substantial evidence to back it, so I feel it's a worthy cause for focus by the Dev team, since the STFs are where most of the loyal players who've been here all this time will be spending their time, players who have already proven that we'll stay around if they give us what we deserve.

To reply to one comment (sorry I read through 3 pages and didn't pay attention to the name), I wasn't saying that I think everyone in a raid should get the prototype drop every run, I agree that would make the Elite STFs too easy, what I am saying is that 1 prototype should drop for every completed Elite STF, and that players should have some better way of choosing who in the group gets it that's more efficient than the rolls, as statistically a player could complete the ssame Elite STF 400 times and lose the roll every single time, and it's just too much work and frustration for such a small % of a chance to finally earn what you've worked for so hard.

I also do agree with how the STFs are now broken up into portions, as one comment stated, it's just too tasking on day to day life to run a 3+ hour raid, I used to play Everquest, and honestly that's one of the biggest reasons I got out of it, just like most MMOs it was all about gear, but the raid were 3-7 hours long depending... So this is one area where Cryptic absolutely got it right, and I credit that to them and thank them.

I am a sensible player, I give credit where it's due, and Cryptic has done some really cool and useful things in season 5 so far, but as good as that is, it doesn't erase the fact that there are some serious issues for us end game maxed rank players, I would really love to get a few comments by a Dev on the issues we're discussing here, so that we at least know it's something they're not only considering, but working on a solution for. I know it's tough to have to bring a project you just finished back into the shop, but sometimes there's just a few more tweaks that have to be made before it's running just right.

Again, Thanks, really the criticism comes from a love of the game and wanting it to become better for everyone, I truly want this to last and to flourish in the future.

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If STFs are taking you 3 hours you are running with the wrong group. Before the changes we were able to complete each one in under 2 hours. We had Cure down to a run-n-gun 45mins. We are not even the best out there... just a group of reasonably good players.

Mind you, I meant pre-Season 5 STF's. A three hour run on a full STF at that time is actually average.

These days, norms are easy and they don't take forever. Bang one out in a half hour, tops. That's not only reasonable, but sensible. Elites are not easy, but usually an hour or two is reasonable.

The Cure Elite Ground is not one of those reasonable ones. That one can take forever. The fact that you can do an elite Cure Ground run in 45 minutes isn't reasonably good... it's scary good, like you have an exceptional team. Don't downplay it.

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yea, the fact that I've gotten only 2 common drops and 1 uncommon out of 30 STFs proves your point, I'll never have that gear and I'm a little sick of trying... it's not like we can up our luck skills to give us better rolls... the chance they drop anything is low, the chance that we get any is 1/4 give or take luck of the roll... it's bizare. there's no precident for it.

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The game is going FTP, and this is the grind we can expect for everything.

Because the game is FTP, much of what you are grinding will be available in one form or another on the C-Store (or you will be offered improved ways of grinding those items).

I'm not defending it, I'm just telling it true. Free to Play is about the grind and the C-Store, and fun will be residual.

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Gozer was responsible for these changes. I do not have a favorable opinion of him from his interactions with the community of the forum. He doesn't listen to feedback.

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I do not really care about this issue for the most part as I do not care about the STF's buuut... Despite that lack of concern I do generally support the ideals of: Honest Rewards for Honest Work, Truth in Advertising, and Group Efforts rewarding every member of the Group. So to that end I would put my support behind the OP in saying the current STF system is out of wack.

I also snort in disgust when the EP says that he does not want STF's farmed and yet makes then such that they must be farmed adnauseum in order to gain the sets you are looking to acquire from them...

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Yeah, at this point if the passive skill 'lucky' meant added accuracy on ground or added chance of rare/prototype drop/very rare equipment drop I'd roll up a new toon with the second option for 'lucky'. :p

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I agree with this thread, and its even worse when you get the XI armor, and you need the whole set to unlock it. Why should I need the gun and PSG to wear the armor? The logic in that makes no sense. I would want to get the whole set anyway for the set bonuses.

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You lost any claim to a reasonable agreement as soon as you used the words "I demand".

The sets aren't supposed to be complete in a matter of days, they are long term goals. Would it be nice from a personal perspective to increase the drop rates? Sure, does that mean they have to be improved? Heck no.

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Yet more proof that Cryptic really has no idea about basic game design principles.

If something is designed in a way that makes the players feel their efforts are futile, they will stop playing. It's pretty basic. Look at the Crystalline Entity mission. People just plain stopped doing it, because it was futile. This is basic stuff, yet somehow seems beyond Cryptic's design team.

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On top of what most of you said one thing they do need to fix is the PvE Q's half of the time they F up and i cant even enter any of them They first need to Fix the Q then deal with the STF's What they should have done be for they made freakin wander land that was a waste of time.The time they should have been spending making STF's right.And fixing Bug issues

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On top of what most of you said one thing they do need to fix is the PvE Q's half of the time they F up and i cant even enter any of them They first need to Fix the Q then deal with the STF's What they should have done be for they made freakin wander land that was a waste of time.The time they should have been spending making STF's right.And fixing Bug issues

+ 1

The PvE ques are very buggy atm as using the quick play option has gotten me into many an instance where the mission is over and I get nothing but a lock out or the many, many, many times Iv gotten sent into a game to find failed objectives :(

When you consider how long the STF revamp has been going on for, its an absolute disgrace what Cryptic have released :mad:


@ Kahn

Are you for real bub?

After the best part of 2 years of the game going live, we now need to run the same missions over and over and over times 120 to get comfortable with our characters :eek:

That's the best excuse the CDF can come up with to defend Cryptic this time.

@Cryptic

When I honestly think you can't disappoint me anymore, you sure do pull out all the stops and prove me wrong :eek: I wonder if Cryptic staff get a special bonus for screwing up the few good ideas they have.

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5 pages of comments and complaints isn't close to a substantial part of the player base.

So...a few people are not happy.

I've acquired the 'Retro' Borg set for an alt in a day. Join queue, game always started within a couple of minutes, team-mate quality was random and variable, but mostly we completed the optional mission. Conclusion: Normal STFs are pretty easy and very easy for experienced players, even PUGs.

Breaking them up and adding queues was a great step forward. Making the Elite version harder than most people can deal with on the first try is how it should be (I haven't tried it yet, it doesn't seem likely to work in a PUG). There needs to be a sense of accomplishment in achieving something, if you zip through on the first attempt that feeling just isn't there.

Of course, one man's sense of accomplishment is another man's grind-fest, but I'd always prefer that the bar is set higher rather than lower. Data mining after a month will clearly show which missions are too hard or too easy. Personal (subjective) feedback within a week from a tiny sample doesn't show anything.

For those people that claim to 'NEVER' get lucky, that's easily explained - Perceptual Bias.

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hey man, i'll be honest with you, i feel your pain. i want the gear.. but not that bad. it does look cool on the NPCs but it doesnt even really fit in with the whole starfleet concept. (but i hear the klingon set has a shotgun w a noob tube) i really wanted the instant freq remodulator and ive been reading that the 15s cooldown makes it almost not worth it.

that all being said, the old school borg set is cheaper, better, faster. unless they give us something truly worth grinding for, i just play STFs for fun every once and a while or to test ships/weapons. i was really edgy before season 5 because im a long time player, and when it dropped i was happy to see DS9 busy with the prospect of some new cool stuff.

but come on, 3 STFs divided 2 ways, making 6 total experiences to gain maybe 1 or 2 of these? its just redundant. i want some new content, but Defera isnt even peaking my interest and i already have my Jem Hadar ship from the winter wonderland. i do at least one borg red alert a day. DOFF system is cool, but repetitive and grindy as well. hook it up, star trek has so much to offer

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agreed- i do think the grind is a tad bit overly ambitious. but it doesnt mean im not willing to work for the gear. i will not play elite however. why even bother, when its just a CHANCE to get a prototype drop, when i can grind my fingers off and be guaranteed a mk xi set, which i dont really mind at all?

the visuals do need to be fixed though. if youre going to say, hey look, grind for gear and you get this!, and then we dont get in fact what is shown to us, its disingenuous at best. gozer, i know youve got your hands full, but honestly, if we have the set at any level, just unlock the whole damn thing, helmet included. again, like everything else we comment on lately, doing that would not only at least show a little bit of good faith, but it would go a long way towards rebuilding trust with the community, something which cryptic has absolutely none of with us right now.

i want you guys to succeed, but seeing all the fast ones youre trying to pull on us is making it really hard for me to believe.

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The problem with mk xii

1: due to it being a super rare drop you may NEVER get a set together even if the game runs for years

2: you may keep getting the same piece over and over.

Agreed .
My humble suggestions :

- Take a page from your own book and add to the Elite versions a special Encrypted Data Chips to earn gear that drops every mission to every player , just like the Regular STF's .

Small Warning to Cryptic : Most of the Elite STF's are not as much fun running again and again as you might think , nor are there enough of them to offer a great variety .
As soon as players realize that they may NEVER get a set together -- they'll move on .
You need a better hook to bait us .

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5 pages of comments and complaints isn't close to a substantial part of the player base.


For those people that claim to 'NEVER' get lucky, that's easily explained - Perceptual Bias.


I think your out of line with these statements. It's the players who take time out of their day to come on these forums and post their opinions on the releases and state of the game that should be viewed as the devoted players who deserve cryptic's ear. Of course 5 pages of comments isn't the majority of the player base, but this subject was only started 2 days ago and see how many people already agree? How many more comments from players who agree will it take for you to see that the issue is important? 20? 400?... To some people it would never matter, and perhaps your one of those, but you should consider, maybe your opinion is the minority, and not the majority, so don't be so quick to cast judgement. And I believe there is enough data from the repeated playing of these STFs to take this groups opinion beyond "Perceptual Bias"/

I would also like to note (again), that no one here has stated that there should not be a level of difficulty and work involved to earned these new sets, as I believe we all want to feel a level of accomplishment. So the comments that have been made in an attempt to cast this in that light are unfounded and unappreciated.


Thank you all again for the support on the topic, and hopefully if we keep it up we can get some kind of response from a Dev... I do feel we deserve some consideration.

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It is all about players knowing that they will get the gear at some point, the random rolls and excessive rarity of the items necessary to get the sets lends little to a definitive finish of a players long term goals. No one is asking to make it easy to get the kits, just make them actually attainable. No player want's to play the same thing over and over again, and no player definitely wants to to said action with no guarantee of reward. With the new leveled replay system I'm sure a lot of players would rather play other missions, but commitment to getting mark 12 gear keeps them running back to redundancy.

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Speaking from the point of a gamedesigner. (not STO)

If you ever playerd Diablo 2 or other "grind-games" you know how hard it is, to get ultra-rare stuff. To be honest, its even in the name: "ultra rare". That means not every player should have the complete set on all of his 4 characters. And it shall also take a lot of effort, to get it...

Second of all. Its still a game. You PLAY it to have FUN. If you have fun, grinding for the best, do it. Overcome frustration and brag with your sucsess.

But if you got no fun at all in the elite missions and beeing one-shot by a mean TAC-cube, than try to do something else.

The moment, you start saying: "i work for this equipment so hard", something is going completly wrong. Its a game. Its meant to be "played" not "worked". As soon as you got no fun with grinding, stop doing it. Its not worth the time. (At least for you)

For example, i love grinding. i even completed most of the "defend sector" and "explore star cluster" accolades. (Betreke is still missing) But thats something i like. Not everybody likes that stuff. As soon as you don't like it, don't do it.

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Some things are going to be for the few. Do I want the cool Mk XII gear? Sure. I'm also fine with only a very few people having it.

There are many different ways that people play games. There are "casuals", "hard core", and in between. Like a lot of other players, I fall somewhere in the middle. However for those that play a crazy amount, it's nice for the game to offer them some sort of reward. I see the Mk. XII gear as that reward.

Right now, my goal is to get enough [Borg] equipment for myself and my fleet so we might be able to tackle the Elite STF without people quitting in frustration.

Things like that definitely require a dedicated crew though. The early days of Molten Core (the first big raid in World of ********) had my guild taking 11 hours. By the time we were done with it, we were doing 2 hour speed runs. I'm sure the same thing can happen with Elite STF.

Not with these "raids " because the gear that you get from them does not help you win .. they are pretty much the same or lesser that what ya have when you start em .. and still getting one shotted

Just my 2 ecs worth

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Great post, OP. This was the straw that broke the camel's back for me and I've effectively quit STO. Lurking the forums until we hear a response about the STFs. If its positive and changes are coming, I'll come back upon completion of the STF reward fixes (I do call them fixes). If we basically get a "hey, this is how we want it to be" post then to hell with them. Enough is enough.

It hurts: I've honestly never quit a MMO before in such a fashion.

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I"ll keep this simple.. I agree with the OP..

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Not with these "raids " because the gear that you get from them does not help you win .. they are pretty much the same or lesser that what ya have when you start em .. and still getting one shotted

Just my 2 ecs worth

I think everyone has to realize that these sets are essentially costumes and nothing more. The base stats are horrible, Pollyalloy Weave (Maco) and Energy Harnis (Omega) the weapons are among the worst you can use vs the borg and the set bonuses are lackluster.

The only good thing about the sets are the shields, which offer some decent protection from the borg thanks to their plasma resistance. So really, is all this grinding worth a costume you can't use on your boffs and is restricted to one character?

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Haven't been to the forums in months, came here specifically to agree with OP.

When S5 went live, people complained that the F2P model crossed the line into "pay-to-win" territory. I had faith in the way Cryptic largely kept the C-Store for bonus items or extras, separate from in-game rewards. I went in Zone chat and defended the F2P outline...

...until I found out that STF rewards had been gutted. I don't even care that other players can pay money to get whatever they want; I care that a group of hardworking players, properly specced, using sufficient planning and teamwork, are no longer being rewarded for completing the hardest content in the game. In my opinion THAT is the single most damaging thing about the current model. When people feel like their hard work is completely useless, sure, some people will reach for their wallets, but I think a lot of people will head for the door.

TL;DR, it's less important that it's now possible to buy endgame gear and more important that it's pointless to bother attempting to acquire it in-game.

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I'm in the same box. I like the new gear, but the only one that's not worse than what i already have is the MK XII, and after getting almost enough EDC's for the MK XI, i still have only seen 1 drop or prototype gear to a team mate. That's it. we failed the bonus and she managed to get one. Did Bioware SEcretly buy out Cryptic and tell them to destroy their own game from the inside out? at what point is the company going to read the forums and realize that it's just ben one bad decision after another since F2P was leaked?

With all the problems being pointed out on the forums, will we be getting ANY answers from the dev side other than "you should be happy with what you got" COUGHstormshadeCOUGH

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It really bugs me how Gozer flaunted the full STF outfits and how Cryptic continues to flaunt them on all the banners and what not, only to have them VIRTUALLY UNOBTAINABLE! :mad:

Quite frankly, the Veteran versions of the STF costumes look like junk.
They are booring, incomplete and you cant even mix any of the parts with other costumes.

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Easy fix... MKXII set gear for 20x Rare Borg Salvage each. Yes, 20... keeps it very rare and a pain to get, but people will still see progress toward that goal

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The drop rate is very low but you must understand when dose drop you get the best stuff in the game. WOW drops a million items but a very small percent is any good. I would rather have it ths way.

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The drop rate is very low but you must understand when dose drop you get the best stuff in the game. WOW drops a million items but a very small percent is any good. I would rather have it ths way.

Hate to break it to you but you don't and your example is pretty bad. First off the STF ground set gear is hardly the best stuff in the game, you're getting the best ground costume in the game.

Secondly, WoW's content and more importantly, loot is gated by the difficulty of the content not by the RNG of the loot table. A better comparison would be comparing the Baron's Mount to the Elite STF grind. You have a 1 in 100 chance of getting the mount to drop each time you loot the boss. Run it 100 times and you still have a 99% chance of getting nothing.

And you have to get and win that drop 3 times. It was only 214 runs for me before I saw my first and only Baron's Mount drop and I was soloing the instance.

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Speaking from the point of a gamedesigner. (not STO)

If you ever playerd Diablo 2 or other "grind-games" you know how hard it is, to get ultra-rare stuff. To be honest, its even in the name: "ultra rare". That means not every player should have the complete set on all of his 4 characters. And it shall also take a lot of effort, to get it...

Second of all. Its still a game. You PLAY it to have FUN. If you have fun, grinding for the best, do it. Overcome frustration and brag with your sucsess.

But if you got no fun at all in the elite missions and beeing one-shot by a mean TAC-cube, than try to do something else.

The moment, you start saying: "i work for this equipment so hard", something is going completly wrong. Its a game. Its meant to be "played" not "worked". As soon as you got no fun with grinding, stop doing it. Its not worth the time. (At least for you)

For example, i love grinding. i even completed most of the "defend sector" and "explore star cluster" accolades. (Betreke is still missing) But thats something i like. Not everybody likes that stuff. As soon as you don't like it, don't do it.

Raids need to be fun *as well as* chellenging. The Elite STF's are too challenging and not fun. Not to mention that there aren't enough raids in this game to justify the grind. After 2 runs, it gets real old real fast.

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First I'd like to thank Lennan, Chanson1982, and spankminister for their direct agreement, and again to all others adding substance to this argument. I think we all realize that it is impossible to please everyone, and perhaps there are some who find the current STF format for rewards to be effective, but I firmly believe that the majority of the player base does not agree with the format, and if it takes the majority of the player base to reply here with that opinion stated in print, then so be it, but hopefully it won't take that much before we finally get a response and actions.

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i really like the idea of the [BORG] modifier, it makes sense to switch to that kind of weapons, but the transition does not feel rewarding enough. my guess is, that 1000 dmg on a proc is just too low to count as a viable trade for [dmg] or something else.
But i can see the game mechanic and the gear progression go that way...a modifier for every new stf content, like [UNDINE] modifier and so on. You need to get the gear first, and then u can attempt elite stf's, but as i said 7,5% proc chance for 1000 dmg may sound a lot but it could be tuned up, like 1500 on MK XI gear and 2000 on MK XII. Like that the step up from MKXI to XII would be more significant and worthwhile.

what do you guys think about that?:)


PS: about a 120 STF runs and i got 1 common borg engine tech! :D

Speaking from the point of a gamedesigner. (not STO)

If you ever playerd Diablo 2 or other "grind-games" you know how hard it is, to get ultra-rare stuff. To be honest, its even in the name: "ultra rare". That means not every player should have the complete set on all of his 4 characters. And it shall also take a lot of effort, to get it...

Second of all. Its still a game. You PLAY it to have FUN. If you have fun, grinding for the best, do it. Overcome frustration and brag with your sucsess.

But if you got no fun at all in the elite missions and beeing one-shot by a mean TAC-cube, than try to do something else.

The moment, you start saying: "i work for this equipment so hard", something is going completly wrong. Its a game. Its meant to be "played" not "worked". As soon as you got no fun with grinding, stop doing it. Its not worth the time. (At least for you)

For example, i love grinding. i even completed most of the "defend sector" and "explore star cluster" accolades. (Betreke is still missing) But thats something i like. Not everybody likes that stuff. As soon as you don't like it, don't do it.

what you did not mention is, that in diablo2 for instance you could trade set parts with other players...and you got other very valuable things out of nearly every run (runes, gems, gold wich was worth actually something not like EC)
The other thing, was that baal runs or mephisto runs were soloable and took about 20 mins or even much less.
So yeah that game and others like it are grind games but the grind is much more suffisticated.

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The [borg] mod on space weapons is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. It only translates to about 150 more DPS for an 8 weapon ship. the best change to make use of the mod is a 8 turret boat with cannon scatter volley/rapid fire chained to go constantly. But then your overall DPS is so low it doesn't matters. the fixed bonus on the ground weapons is much better.

Best space weapons would be to [dmg]x3 for engs/sci and [crtd]x3 for tacs since the borg move so slow that any accuracy bonus is not needed. Why the difference? because tacs have skills that raise their crit changes, so they can make best use of the increased critical strength.

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Yes, I agree the STF reward system is now absurd and I'm not even going to bother with them anymore. And it's a shame to say that because I used to love the STF's.

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i too once loved the Borg Content. But sadly i'm only 28 EDC's away from my first set and i've pretty much stopped caring. It's Ridiculous that they're not even giving the drop rates so we can know if it's even worth it at this point. All they've managed to do is upset the fanbase even more than they have already. Most Elite Matches are just one shot after one shot with the Borg bending any and all rules in game. They're penetrating shields, spamming abilities way too often, ignoring damage output at times, people are just randomly being assimilated or blown up after clearing. It's not making it harder to make the borg so cheap, it's doing more harm than good. More people are quitting the game or swearing off STF's simply because they're no longer worth it. All the STF's have done is Become Terradome. And anyone who has played this game knows EXACTLY what that means (for those that don't: it's too buggy, it's not fun, and the rewards just aren't worth it)

Sadly they still refuse to give us the drop rates for any thing worth while or even give general feedback on what's going on other than Zero Saying they've upped the drop rate on tribble (which we appreciate) but what about holodeck or by how much? is it even worth it?

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There are people on my fleet who are doing regular Terradome Runs because it is the only "untainted" STF. Ironic isn't it?

Somewhere along the line fun got thrown out of the equation.

STFs are suppose to be challenging, fun, and rewarding. When it comes to Elite, we don't have this trinity. Someone (Gozer) lost sight of the big picture.

I only bother with space normal now when it comes to PUGs. I've been on too many teams where people quit on ground normal or space elite it's so frustrating. Demoralizing actually. I'm glad I have a fleet that does regular runs and knows what they are doing, but everyone is becoming quickly jaded.

I was able to do 4 normal space STFs with different PUGs the time it took my organized fleet to do one ground elite STF. So where is the incentive to do elite? Where is the incentive to do ground?

It is more time efficient to grind the 120 normal space missions for a Mk XI set and forget doing ground and forget elite. Balance needs to be looked at. Give me a reason to want to do these.

Also unlock the whole costume set at Mk XI (helmet and all). Stop being jerks Cryptic.

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All this + the fact that the cure boss is near freaking impossible.

[Archived Post]

the fact that the cure boss is near freaking impossible.

all you need is a medic that tanks him in the middle of the square, so everybody is in firing range. I play a science medic and i can tank him just fine with my lirpa, while the other pound him with double quantum mortars and so on. i dont know how other classes could tank him, but there has to be someone in his melee range, otherwise he blasts at random away your grp.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The [borg] mod on space weapons is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. It only translates to about 150 more DPS for an 8 weapon ship. the best change to make use of the mod is a 8 turret boat with cannon scatter volley/rapid fire chained to go constantly. But then your overall DPS is so low it doesn't matters. the fixed bonus on the ground weapons is much better.


yeah i know its not really worth it...thats why it should be made more worth it! double the proc or even tripple it. Those modifiers should make the difference when fighting borg, like they allways do in star trek episodes...they invent some special weapons upgrade and blast away enemys they had no chance again before.

PS: seven pages, not even the slightest sign of a dev-response here, just as in my tickets for my missing phase shift generator

[Archived Post]

all you need is a medic that tanks him in the middle of the square
Which is a stupid idea for a PUG-System that rarely puts you in a group with a healer.

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im glad im not the only one frustrated with this. i think i prefered the old STFs before the split them up into ground and space parts. At least before you knew what you would get for finishing it. I dont mind if they are hard and you need a good team to win it. but give me a goal that is confirmed and i will try over and over to get it. and the stats on those mk 12 purples are really not that much better than the 11s - so like others have stated not doing STFs in elite anymore.

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Space Set
I manged to get the Mk XI Honor Guard set by grinding out the space STFs. That is over 120 STFs, with only one MK X Borg Engine Tech drop. When I saw the Mask Energy Signature as a set bonus, how useful is that against the Borg. It is supposed to be the pinacle of Klingon Anti-Borg equipment. Execute the engineers for incompetence and redesign them.

Give use useful buffs and abilities with this gear. I would like to see abilities, such as a counter to the Borg Shield drain. What about, if the Borg shoot you. You convert % of incoming damage to power up say a deflector pulse, or a shield pulse. If you are tractored, you can set up a feedback pulse. To knock out the tractor beam. There are so many abilities you could put on these sets to make them alot better than they are. Without making them OP, and making them useful.

Are people going to mix old borg with say the shields from Honor Guard set?


Ground Set
At least the Honor Guard ground set is of some use, comes with the remodulator and adreanal booster. Adrenal Booster is a +304hp heal, that does not trigger a cooldown on hypos. Along with the Technician kit, i have Shield Recharge and Power to Shields. Even on normal, I can get one shotted by Borg Tactical.

If I just wear the armor I should get Adrenal Booster, Shields should have a Emergency Power to Shields, Weapon inbuilt remodulator. Then add set bonuses such as increase the 10% resists on shields to 20% with a % chance to trigger a shield heal. They could add kits to add another set bonus to complete the sets.

I seemed to be better equipped with my previous equipment. All Mk XI purple shields, armor, weapons, and a remodulator.

I would like to see STF sets as below. With an additional piece to add another set bonus.

[Ground]
Shields
Weapon
Armor
Kit

[Space]
Shields
Engines
Deflector
Console

[Archived Post]

Currently grinding normal STFs to get the Vet Ground M.A.C.O. gear. Was a bit peeved when I bought the armour first and found you need the full set to get armour visuals... But ok I thought fair enough, it will show how much work people have put into it. Now find out you don't get access to the Helmet..Not happy.

Tried Elite a few times, I can JUST about hold my own for as long as other players but it doesn't feel like a game and is genually NOT fun to play... its just a slaughter house where you chew through Consumables like there is no tomorrow. And the fact you only have a 1 in 5 chance of getting a the drop (If it appears at all) makes the whole thing just a huge headache that I can't be a**ed to do when I'm trying to play in order to have a good time :p

Also with the influx of players that just "Need" EVERY single bit of loot dropped, the normal STF's fun has drained away quite quickly for a lot of players.

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I find that Elite ground STF's require a fair bit of planning before you attack, and also requires "extensive" use of "cover" to stay alive.
Once your used to it, killing borg and staying alive is easy, but some boss fights like Infected and Cure are just such a pain on Elite(Cure is horrible even on Normal).

One thing I have found is a very good tactic, is to have someone go melee with all forms of Tactical drones.
This keeps their aggro on you and they will only attack with Melee which is much weaker than their energy based weapons, this in turn prevents them from being able to wipe out the entire team with their AOE attacks.
Just make sure your packing nanite supressants, or your in for a nasty surprise.(they are not 100% effective though.)

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With all the replies coming in, you just have to note that this is not simply a few random player's opinions, it's a legitimate movement, and something like that doesn't just get swept under the proverbial rug. It's time for a response, as I'm quite sure that an important end-game content issue like this can spell serious trouble for Cryptic even in F2P mode, so why not use this as a starting point to get it fixed sooner rather than later, and to prove to us all that the Devs care enough about us to fix such large issues quickly. I realize everyone at Cryptic is probably working diligently on going F2P and the next episode event, but even if it means taking a break from that, this should come before another featured event. Myself along with many others would rather have something fixed now to keep us busy and content until that next release, rather than quit the STFs and have absolutely nothing at all to do beyond starting yet another new character, or walking away from the game until it finally has something worth our time... I just feel that the choice should be quite clear, right? Prove to us that it's not just about the money, because you'll never succeed long term with a game unless your 1st motivation is the happiness of the majority of the fan base. If we need proof that this is the majorities opinion before you act, then send out a survey to every single player, or simpler yet, tell us the number of unique players it would take to make up the majority, and we'll seek out every one of them, and have them all comment here in support. I'm willing to make that sacrifice of my time to make this right, are you Cryptic?

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I came here to say I support this thread. The drop rates are abysmal for what can be considered mediocre gear.

At the very least a different set of Mk XI and Mk XII gear could have been provided (6 sets instead of 3 which are just uprated for the MK XII gear). While the sets are somewhat desirable, the grind needed to obtain them is insane. Performing the SAME 3 STF's 60 times is somewhat ridiculous. If there were another 2 functional STF's or even additional ways to earn a data chip (one for say completing a full FE arc on elite), it would be more rewarding to perform.

Also it would have been better for the ground kits to build up as you added more of hte set pieces. Granted it may have required a bit more art work, but seeing as PWE is backing you up, I don't think it's THAT much of an investment. Seeing your character in cooler armor knowing that the next piece will give you a better look would incentivize people to keep going.

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Hello to all Devs, Managers and other deciders @ Cryptic and to all Players,

First of all: Season 5 was a “very big step” for STO on it’s ongoing mission to be a Great Game!

i would like to give my comments about the new STFs and the "rewarding" system as well:

STF are now spilt up into two parts
Well - it is needed for the grind it is now, but the story feeling is gone.
There are player out there who's 1st priority is NOT to get a certain set of gear, but to have fun by playing a great story - and you guys from Cryptic provided us with some really fine Story arcs that are fun to play.
So why not offer the possibility to do a "Story Mode"? and only there give the good old Borg Set as rewards?
So just like the STFs have been

Rewards for STFs
It's fine to have the STF split up, when you like to grind for a certain set - cool stuff
The rewards for the normal version of the STFs are ok (imho). Including the Bonus you have to do a lot of runs, but then you can get the desired set (MK X or XI).
But please reward the players who spemd their time so that they can show off! Give them the look so everyone can see: She / He did it!

Elite
hmmm.... i have read some things about the Elite STFs: undoable, too difficult, frustrating....
I think an Elite STF should be challenging. The need to use loads of consumables? So what, no one would care, IF the rewards for the effort we put in is fitting – and they are NOT!
Last time I did KA on Elite I got 2 EDC and a rare time… so – that’s it? Really? You gotta be kidding me! So I have learned that the drop of the very specific things you need to get the MK XII set are random… How is this supposed to be motivating? Just imagine you have all you want but one piece, and you get only the bound piece for what you already got…. What is the purpose of that?
I mean, the do it in other MMOs as well – I don’t care. STO was free of that “rewarding system” and it should be again!
It can be hard, it can be slow so we have to put months of time in to get it, but we need to see progress in our project “M.A.C.O. MK XII” or “Omega MK XII”. Please make sure that a certain amount of progress is sure when you do an Elite STF and the rest can be luck… if it has to be ;-)

What’s Next?
As is said – great job you have done with Season 5, but there are a few major issues that should be taken care of.

Thanks – Take Care
Gallagher

[Archived Post]

We all want pretty much the same here:

1) Helmets should be vissible with every set!

2) A token for every completed elite stf! maybe completing the bonus objective rewards you with an extra token or at least has a high chance for a borg tech token (10% would be sufficient already)

3) tune down the random 1 shot abilities of tac cubes, and have them use the same cooldown on abilities as players

4) (but that was my wish :) ) PIMP the borg modifier, so its better against Borg than other weapons

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The Mk XII as I see it is jsut bragging rights. I dont think its a set that I would take into a OPvP match. The weapons sure, but no the Borg Mk X sets.

I think Cryptic should make a change/announcement that the new armorset graphics will. Once completing accolades related to the new Borg Stf. Which means the Mk X gear would have that style as well.
:cool:

[Archived Post]

The Mk XII as I see it is jsut bragging rights. I dont think its a set that I would take into a OPvP match. The weapons sure, but no the Borg Mk X sets.

I think Cryptic should make a change/announcement that the new armorset graphics will. Once completing accolades related to the new Borg Stf. Which means the Mk X gear would have that style as well.
:cool:

I hope they do something about the visuals. Was more than a little peeved that i grined the hell out of STFs to get the full MkXI set only to find there is no Helmet, no Shoulder Pads and no Gauntlets... which I have to admit is one of my fav parts of the armour.
Even though my characters title now reads "M.A.C.O. Veteran" he doesn't look the part.

Why not make the Armour peices (Helmet, chest plate, gauntlets etc) standard and have unique colours and/or arm patches/rank pips for Elite armour sets??

Seriously hope Cryptic/PW do someting about this :p

PS. might be an idea to up the M.A.C.O./OMEGA egines Warp speed (captured Transwap coils/hardwired Slipstream tech)... might want to give up my Borg Set then and Grind again :p lol

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It might be interesting to compare how much time you spend grinding STFs to how much time you would have to spend grinding Dilithium for gear, if the STF gear isn't much better.

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Where's the Devs on this?

[Archived Post]

Where's the Devs on this?

Checking their emails to see if they got a SW:TOR early access invite :)

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With Season 5 came more than just some new conent and gear to play with.....it also drastically changed how we play the game.The revamped STF's, more importantly the way you obtain the new gear,encourages a certain attitude from players (being a-holes). PWE has brought something to this game that they should never have...greed,pure greed.Instead of encouraging teamplay,they focus on increasing rivalry between players so they might spend more on C-points to catch up or gain the edge.

Well done PWE......you killed our Star Trek experience.:(

[Archived Post]

STF's elite need rebalance or atleast be made for 10 players so taht they are possible to end.
Last nigh i was hit by Tac Cube on infected elite with over half million damage.single freaking shoot

[Archived Post]

Where's the Devs on this?

They are going to watch the numbers, and just like any MMO, when a few months have passed (yes, months) they will begin to dial-down the threshold to accomodate more players.

The inidial introduction is, arguably, made difficult for a combination of reasons... One, it's new and therefore in high demand. As such the new thing(s) attained from it must be set in such a way that it's not immediately accomplished and thus makes the "new" experience instantly old.

One must always remember the motivation of the MMO host is to sell you a tread-mill experience, and if you are too easily able to get all that you want and effectively be "done" with what can be accomplished, then the host no longer has a tread-mill, but instead more of a run-way for people to take off from, and therefore leave for another experience elsewhere.

While I am remiss to compare STO to World of ********, it's an apt analog in this case... Typically when a new content patch comes along, and another dungeon/raid is introduced, it is crushingly difficult for the more "casual" audience to accomplish with a Pick-Up Game (PUG). However, the developers are more than aware of what the playerbase is capable of, the mountain of analytical data on their players readily at their fingertips can readily detail how often they hit the jump-key much less how good they are at defeating dungeons.

After a few months though, the difficulty level is invariably dialed back, or "rebalanced" if you prefer... Sugar-coating the fact that it was very hard, and then later diminished by some amount to make it more approachable however in no way changes that it is blunted to some amount for the sake of the masses.

That does two things, it gives the "1337" crowd bragging rights early on for having something that few others do, rare and new gear that few others even have access to much less a reasonable expectation of acquiring... It also allows for a ramped entry to the playerbase, so that the most hardcore players get it early on, and as the difficulty level is lowered to meet more players then over time more and more players achieve it as well.


How long exactly will it take for Cryptic/PW to decided to lower the bar some? Of course I don't know, but it will likely be just before a new round of content is about to be opened up... That too plays into the tread-mill experience they need in order to keep you playing, and therefore paying.


Please understand, this isn't said crytically, synacally, or insultingly toward any MMO, I'm simply being honest with what's happening and saying it "matter of factly". I quite like STO overall, and quite like WOW (although I had quit WOW shortly after Lich King came out). It's really more of an analysis of what I've seen in the past and a fairly safe bet as to what will continue to occur because that's pretty much how MMO games work. Some will accept it and some will not.

[Archived Post]

They are going to watch the numbers, and just like any MMO, when a few months have passed (yes, months) they will begin to dial-down the threshold to accomodate more players.

The inidial introduction is, arguably, made difficult for a combination of reasons... One, it's new and therefore in high demand. As such the new thing(s) attained from it must be set in such a way that it's not immediately accomplished and thus makes the "new" experience instantly old.

One must always remember the motivation of the MMO host is to sell you a tread-mill experience, and if you are too easily able to get all that you want and effectively be "done" with what can be accomplished, then the host no longer has a tread-mill, but instead more of a run-way for people to take off from, and therefore leave for another experience elsewhere.

While I am remiss to compare STO to World of ********, it's an apt analog in this case... Typically when a new content patch comes along, and another dungeon/raid is introduced, it is crushingly difficult for the more "casual" audience to accomplish with a Pick-Up Game (PUG). However, the developers are more than aware of what the playerbase is capable of, the mountain of analytical data on their players readily at their fingertips can readily detail how often they hit the jump-key much less how good they are at defeating dungeons.

After a few months though, the difficulty level is invariably dialed back, or "rebalanced" if you prefer... Sugar-coating the fact that it was very hard, and then later diminished by some amount to make it more approachable however in no way changes that it is blunted to some amount for the sake of the masses.

That does two things, it gives the "1337" crowd bragging rights early on for having something that few others do, rare and new gear that few others even have access to much less a reasonable expectation of acquiring... It also allows for a ramped entry to the playerbase, so that the most hardcore players get it early on, and as the difficulty level is lowered to meet more players then over time more and more players achieve it as well.


How long exactly will it take for Cryptic/PW to decided to lower the bar some? Of course I don't know, but it will likely be just before a new round of content is about to be opened up... That too plays into the tread-mill experience they need in order to keep you playing, and therefore paying.


Please understand, this isn't said crytically, synacally, or insultingly toward any MMO, I'm simply being honest with what's happening and saying it "matter of factly". I quite like STO overall, and quite like WOW (although I had quit WOW shortly after Lich King came out). It's really more of an analysis of what I've seen in the past and a fairly safe bet as to what will continue to occur because that's pretty much how MMO games work. Some will accept it and some will not.



A fine analasys and of course what you say is true, but its not the difficulty of the content that is the main issue in my opinion. its the reward system itself. completing a heroic dungeon or raid in WOW, compensates you with a currency that intime can be exchanged for loot. Now what we have here is the absence of such a currency in elite stf's. you can rush through an elite stf and at the end still get nothing. And the real problem is, that this can be the case in 90% of your runs.
As many pointed out allready, it's the gamble for the reward that bothers most of the people that commented here.
The difficulty of elite stf's is also not the issue, its the frustration u get when getting oneshot by tac-cubes and gates.

in short:

1) absence of a currency in elite stf's, like there is in normal stf's (80 EDC for MK XII set, for instance)

2) the absurdity of the dmg output of some mobs in elite stf's, without having a functioning aggro system. if that would work, you could have one member tank with his cruiser.

3) disapointment of not seeing the helmet after grinding 120 stf's, but that only counts for me


my suggestion:

1) put the stf's on a 20h cooldown...or a daily for each stf that rewards you with extra EDC, or lootbag
like that you can also block progress of players in a more suffisticated way.

2) implement an aggro system, give cruiser and or engineers taunt abilitys

[Archived Post]

Added to my list of feedback.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

[Archived Post]

Added to my list of feedback.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=


That's something at least, thanks

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agreed- i do think the grind is a tad bit overly ambitious. but it doesnt mean im not willing to work for the gear. i will not play elite however. why even bother, when its just a CHANCE to get a prototype drop, when i can grind my fingers off and be guaranteed a mk xi set, which i dont really mind at all?

the visuals do need to be fixed though. if youre going to say, hey look, grind for gear and you get this!, and then we dont get in fact what is shown to us, its disingenuous at best. gozer, i know youve got your hands full, but honestly, if we have the set at any level, just unlock the whole damn thing, helmet included. again, like everything else we comment on lately, doing that would not only at least show a little bit of good faith, but it would go a long way towards rebuilding trust with the community, something which cryptic has absolutely none of with us right now.

i want you guys to succeed, but seeing all the fast ones youre trying to pull on us is making it really hard for me to believe.

I'm seeing it that way Gents. If you compare gear stats of the Mk XII elite space gear to Breen or retro borg gear. Ummm, I'm not impressed. Heck I been doing just fine using the Breen gear on Elite. Moreover, the retro Borg gear. What does that say? It's all bragging rights. So I'm knocking out the accolades anyway.

From a science toon stand point I'm not impress with the deflector gear. It does'nt suit my build. Compare the breen deflector dish against the Tachyon or Gravtron dishes. They both just give you a little to tease you.

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[QUOTE= I would expect this from the Ferengi, but I hoped for more from you Cryptic [/QUOTE]

lol that was great

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The [borg] mod on space weapons is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. It only translates to about 150 more DPS for an 8 weapon ship. the best change to make use of the mod is a 8 turret boat with cannon scatter volley/rapid fire chained to go constantly. But then your overall DPS is so low it doesn't matters. the fixed bonus on the ground weapons is much better.

Best space weapons would be to [dmg]x3 for engs/sci and [crtd]x3 for tacs since the borg move so slow that any accuracy bonus is not needed. Why the difference? because tacs have skills that raise their crit changes, so they can make best use of the increased critical strength.

Ive noticed the same, fully equipped my ship with those weapons and i notice no difference, if all i think my full CrtHx3 PvE weaponset works even better. rofl.

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[QUOTE=Gapaxbr;3908137]lol that was great

Thanks, I thought I'd mix in a little Trek humor to show I'm a passionate fan ;)

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I like how STFs have been broken up now.

I dislike the grind to get any kind of gear. The number of chips you need for an item seems prohibitively high. I don't like the idea of grinding for a month to get one piece of what might not even be the best item in the game when I've already crafted a full set of gear that's only marginally less awesome. I want the new stuff, yes, but it seems like an exercise in futility and mindless repetition.

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I'd be happy if they just cut the EDC prices by half, it would still take 60 runs to get the Mk XI gear, so it's still grindy, but it would be a lot better. As it stands right now, by the time I get my set, I'm not going to ever want to run an STF again because I'll be so sick of them. (note: that's not out of nerd rage, I'll just be tired of running them over and over again.)

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Yet more proof that Cryptic really has no idea about basic game design principles.

If something is designed in a way that makes the players feel their efforts are futile, they will stop playing. It's pretty basic. Look at the Crystalline Entity mission. People just plain stopped doing it, because it was futile. This is basic stuff, yet somehow seems beyond Cryptic's design team.

it was doable up till an update that made it too strong... now it's an "event" an event that no one wants to do...

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I don't mind the cost of the sets as they are, it should take alot of hard work to get them, I just finished XI KHG set for my klingon on ground and have 2/3 of the space set, and I've only been trying for about a week, I've played a lot in that time, but its easily doable. I think these sets should be bragging rights, and as such, take hard work to get them.


What I don't like is that the mk12 sets, are only ever a CHANCE to get. That just irritates me to know end, its entirely possible, that I'll never finish the set, even if I do several STF's every day for a year. I wouldn't mind the chance being so low, If there was just a way to redeem them like the MKXI's, say double the cost of the MK11s or after doing so many, just SOMETHING other than this incredibly LOW chance of getting anything, and whats worse is its not like the MK12 pieces will add to your costume upon reciept individually, but that you'd have to aquire the WHOLE set for it to even be applicable. The whole MK12 thing reaks of a grind fest beyond the worth of its own rewards.

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What I don't like is that the mk12 sets, are only ever a CHANCE to get. That just irritates me to know end, its entirely possible, that I'll never finish the set, even if I do several STF's every day for a year. I wouldn't mind the chance being so low, If there was just a way to redeem them like the MKXI's, say double the cost of the MK11s or after doing so many, just SOMETHING other than this incredibly LOW chance of getting anything, and whats worse is its not like the MK12 pieces will add to your costume upon reciept individually, but that you'd have to aquire the WHOLE set for it to even be applicable. The whole MK12 thing reaks of a grind fest beyond the worth of its own rewards.

I don't even mind this, what I do mind is that by getting a drop for a Mk XII then I can't even use it before I get the rest of the set without losing the set bonus for the lower Mk set. With the difference between Mk XI and Mk XII being fairly small and only the costume unlock being what people are grinding for any Mk XII tech drops are just going to be banked until the whole set's dropped so they're effectively worthless given the incredibly low drop rate.

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I did not purchase this bug infested game & a lifetime subscription to grind the same "recycled" mission over & over & over, so I can equip my ship or personel. I guess I am SOL cause there is no way in hell I'm going to do it. For anyone @ Cryptic to think I would was beyond ignorant on their part.

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Leaving aside the whole XII visual thing, which I'm not happy about but doesn't seem like it's going to change...

It shouldn't be quicker to get ground sets by doing purely space stfs. It's been mentioned elsewhere that the normal ground stfs should have their EDC rewards doubled to match time invested, something I strongly agree with. Can't comment on Elite as I don't know what the time differentials are there.

For actually gaining the XII sets, given the lottery approach that seem to be creeping in, lets take it out of getting mk XII sets. Leave the prototype tech in but replace the EDCs for Elites with Advanced EDCs at the same rates as normal STFs get standard EDCs, then let us trade them in for set parts. Seperate them into ground and space versions if neccessary but give us something we know will guarantee us (eventually) the sets we are after.

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I don't even mind this, what I do mind is that by getting a drop for a Mk XII then I can't even use it before I get the rest of the set without losing the set bonus for the lower Mk set. With the difference between Mk XI and Mk XII being fairly small and only the costume unlock being what people are grinding for any Mk XII tech drops are just going to be banked until the whole set's dropped so they're effectively worthless given the incredibly low drop rate.

I concur with the all or nothing irritating situation. I got lucky enough to get a shield drop, but it was mark X. Which is useless once I get MK XI. So why should I equip it and take a step backwards from the MK XI gear I have running? I would much prefer if the gear would scale, maybe not to MK XII. In fact I have no problem with dropping MK X and pushing it all into MK XI.

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Leaving aside the whole XII visual thing, which I'm not happy about but doesn't seem like it's going to change...

It shouldn't be quicker to get ground sets by doing purely space stfs. It's been mentioned elsewhere that the normal ground stfs should have their EDC rewards doubled to match time invested, something I strongly agree with. Can't comment on Elite as I don't know what the time differentials are there.

For actually gaining the XII sets, given the lottery approach that seem to be creeping in, lets take it out of getting mk XII sets. Leave the prototype tech in but replace the EDCs for Elites with Advanced EDCs at the same rates as normal STFs get standard EDCs, then let us trade them in for set parts. Seperate them into ground and space versions if neccessary but give us something we know will guarantee us (eventually) the sets we are after.

^^ This, majority of players will be happy to run elite stf's over and over IF they know they will be awarded something they can use towards the purchase of mk XII items...The introduction of an "Advanced EDC" should have been included with these revamps from the start, the current "lottery" system is flawed on so many levels, the drop rates of the tech are abysmal (i've done dozens of elites, and hundreds of the normal versions, and only seen 2 x mk x tech in total). The stfs are team based, and hence the whole team should be rewarded as such.

Brandon, if you can pass this along to Gozer (doesn't seem to frequent here much these days), will be much appreciated :)

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^^ This, majority of players will be happy to run elite stf's over and over IF they know they will be awarded something they can use towards the purchase of mk XII items...The introduction of an "Advanced EDC" should have been included with these revamps from the start, the current "lottery" system is flawed on so many levels, the drop rates of the tech are abysmal (i've done dozens of elites, and hundreds of the normal versions, and only seen 2 x mk x tech in total). The stfs are team based, and hence the whole team should be rewarded as such.

Brandon, if you can pass this along to Gozer (doesn't seem to frequent here much these days), will be much appreciated :)

I've been saying this about the optionals also. If its completed everyone should get the added loot or at least something instead of just have the best odds of 3/5 chance. For awhile on the optional I chose greed and got zilch. Now I do need just to get a better chance of something.

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I am one of those thats also serious disapointed at the way they chosen to spread out the costume unlocks. All I really want is the full costume unlocks, I don't even care about a few stats.
Was under the impression (from a previous dev post on test forum) we would only need the Mk XI set to unlock the full costume.
Both the Honor Guard and the MACO XI set looks bad and unfinished without the rest of the gear.
Only the Omega comes off as half decent.

Also why no option to make our awayteam wear the costume parts? would love to beam down on a mission with my own special force team.

I am not even sure I feel like running the STFs now, knowning I can't get the full costumes.
Not worth it for me to run 120 times to get half a costume unlocked



Make the Mk XI set unlock the full costume!
Allow away team to wear the costume parts!

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I've been having great success using my science toon on the intrepid with the Breen set or the retro set. If you look at the stats on the Mk XII the "Elite" I'm not impress with it. Frankly, I'm doing this for bragging rights and complete the accolades.

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Agree with original poster 100%

Hey, I know what Cryptic was doing when they made this grinding mess we are in right now. They were allowing the borg to assimilate us without us ever realizing it. Think about it.. by the time we get done grinding this mess.. we'll be drones and "mindless automatons". We'll be so "game numb" to those STFs that we'll be brainwashed into paying more RL money to buy more cryptic points. :)

Cryptic, are you giving us babies some rattles so that we'll stop crying to you? Are you forcing us to slave this long for rewards which, on Elite level, will literally take months of constant play?

My real life time is important as well... and Cryptic shouldn't make this as difficult as a day at the office like I am undertaking some major project. I am here to enjoy myself, not be frustrated.. especially when I am still paying each month for this game!

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I completely sympathize with the OP. I was happily playing the STF's, earning my ECD's. I don't play much and I just finally got past 40. I was fine with it take a few months to grind out the remaining 80 ECD's to get the MACO gear.

And then I learned that this would only yield me the body armor and not the helmet. At that point I threw in the towel. The elites are to annoying to play for a small random chance of getting a drop. The normal's were fun. I was fine with it taking time. I am not fine with it taking time to NOT get the full costume.

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Yeah I actually did something I never thought I was going to do, I max leveled a klink, after my original post on this topic, finished so quickly, and I'm not one to make a lot of characters as I like being very fluid with one... so I dunno, I'm a lifetime member so I'll never completely give up on STO, and I still have some fun in it, but I have to be honest, I'm getting more and more curious about the new star wars mmo... hearing a lot of good things, but I'm not sure I'm ready for dealing with monthly subs again... The weaknesses in season 5's release is pushing me to this point, as it seems to be many of the players in STO... not good for the longevity of the game. And while yes the winter wonderland free nano weapons are a nice touch, they are obviously meant to be some nod or either joke towards the release of SW.... but in all honesty, it made me miss a real lightsaber a little, so not sure the pun was such a great idea in the scheme of things to come. When I can afford it, I'm gonna try SE out if something hasn't improved here by that time, around the end of January or so.

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Yeah I actually did something I never thought I was going to do, I max leveled a klink, after my original post on this topic, finished so quickly, and I'm not one to make a lot of characters as I like being very fluid with one... so I dunno, I'm a lifetime member so I'll never completely give up on STO, and I still have some fun in it, but I have to be honest, I'm getting more and more curious about the new star wars mmo... hearing a lot of good things, but I'm not sure I'm ready for dealing with monthly subs again... The weaknesses in season 5's release is pushing me to this point, as it seems to be many of the players in STO... not good for the longevity of the game. And while yes the winter wonderland free nano weapons are a nice touch, they are obviously meant to be some nod or either joke towards the release of SW.... but in all honesty, it made me miss a real lightsaber a little, so not sure the pun was such a great idea in the scheme of things to come. When I can afford it, I'm gonna try SE out if something hasn't improved here by that time, around the end of January or so.

exactly how i feel. I'm gonna buy swtor for sure. and iam gonna play it a month. after that, i wanna see if STO is still out of its 2 year payed beta. I will drop by now and then, but i think i'm gonna stick with swtor, even with the monthly fees. I mean the weekends i will waste on the game and not go out drinking and stuff, that will pay for the monthly fees 4 times over!^^

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There is a need for Rare Encrypted data Chips droped from elite STF's so that MK XII gear can be get on alternate methode.
Leave Borg Tech from elite STF's for getting quicker MK XII but add Rare EDC's as elite STF's rewards and make a price like 20-40 Rare EDC's for 1 part of MK XII gear

[Archived Post]

/ Epic Support

I can appreciate a massive grind, but to grind hour after hour for only a *chance-out-of-a-chance* for a prototype tech drop is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

For Mk XII, there must be some type of a guarantee that you will actually get the prize. Why can't Mk XII Special Reserve items (requisitions) be purchased for mega-EDC's? Or why can't the Elite missions have their own currency? Or why can't the *only helmet in STO* be attainable via Normal play?


Helmets, EDC's, or DEATH!!!!

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I am in that small camp of people that disagrees with this entirely.

The biggest problem with an MMO is when you have entirely run out of things to do. More specfically, run out of things to make you better. Money, in whatever form, is largely worthless in STO currently and seems set to remain that way, so gaining more of that is never going to make you 'better'.

Having extremely rare drops means, in most cases, you will never run out of things to do that will make you better.

Also, the lower end gear is remarkably easy to come by. I have acquired 2.6 sets at MKX, 1.3 sets at MKXI, and have a full set of MKXI borg weapons on my ship as well as 10 rare borg blue bits in the bank... In just TWO WEEKS. I call that pretty fast, and moreover, that equipment is perfectly sufficient to complete an elite STF.

I also want to applaud the Devs for creating items that are specific to that faction. It gives me a resaon to have one of my ships specifcally equipped JUST for Borg STFs, because in PvP or other envornments it is not as good as regular MKXI Purple (which you can still craft etc).

I would love to see more STF's developed against other races and have a whole new reason to develop a ship specifcally fighting them - fingers crossed for Breen ones so that (currently useless) Breen set can be used with purpose.

these things give you a reason to keep playing and a goal for development after you hit max level. I feel the balance of progression is around about exactly right.

Thanks for reading through this exhaustive tirade!

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On a note for the future level cap increase, PLEASE make one of the cruisers a Sovereign Refit that can equip the cloak console, it would make it relevant again, and finally get me out of this Gal-x...

[Archived Post]

On that note, I have just earned my first rare schematic drop yesterday. Rare Deflector Tech is awesome. I bought the Omega Force deflector with it.

And it only too me nearly... two hundred successful runs?

Yup... this is gonna be a long, hard slog.

[Archived Post]

Nerd rage defined ^ Sounds like you really want that gear. :p

I have mark 10 space set pretty good time just got first mark 11 maco shield today
say it sucks and don't work with ten set so going BORG retro

he is probablly a newbie trying to fail in elite

calm down
we will all get the sets just grind 120 normal matches you got the 11 set nuff said
120 more ground set
or go retro like I am going to do

15 for retro

[Archived Post]

I have mark 10 space set pretty good time just got first mark 11 maco shield today
say it sucks and don't work with ten set so going BORG retro

he is probablly a newbie trying to fail in elite

calm down
we will all get the sets just grind 120 normal matches you got the 11 set nuff said
120 more ground set
or go retro like I am going to do

15 for retro

Might you clarify exactly who your calling a "newbie trying to fail in elite"?

I ask because it very much seems as though your trying to indicate me with that remark, and if that's the case I think you should take note that I'm nearly 600 days in this game and I've beat everything else that's came along, and a veteran gamer and mmo'er... So I would take offense to such. I would expect that sort of childish statement on xbox live with all of the 13 year olds... but here I do expect more maturity.

[Archived Post]

On a note for the future level cap increase, PLEASE make one of the cruisers a Sovereign Refit that can equip the cloak console, it would make it relevant again, and finally get me out of this Gal-x...

You are aware, of course, that you're playing a Star Trek game, and in Star Trek, Starfleet ships don't use cloaks (with the singular exception of the one single USS DEFIANT... which was destroyed decades ago). It was inappropriate for the Defiant refit class to have a cloak. It's MORE inappropriate for any other Starfleet ship to have one.

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You are aware, of course, that you're playing a Star Trek game, and in Star Trek, Starfleet ships don't use cloaks (with the singular exception of the one single USS DEFIANT... which was destroyed decades ago). It was inappropriate for the Defiant refit class to have a cloak. It's MORE inappropriate for any other Starfleet ship to have one.

Actually... the ONLY reason Starfleet ships haven't had cloaks is because of the "Treaty of Algeron" (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron)

As you should be aware, at this point in the Star Trek timeline on STO, Romulus has been destroyed and the Romulans are scattered and no longer have a true established government, therefore the treaty can not still be in effect when one of the participants in the treaty no longer exists as a government. Starfleet would be extremely foolish not to develop cloaking technology in all of their ships in all actuality.

The facts are irrefutable, and to quote the borg, "resistance is futile", as there is no valid reason not to put this theory in effect and act on the new ability.

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I completely sympathize with the OP. I was happily playing the STF's, earning my ECD's. I don't play much and I just finally got past 40. I was fine with it take a few months to grind out the remaining 80 ECD's to get the MACO gear.

And then I learned that this would only yield me the body armor and not the helmet. At that point I threw in the towel. The elites are to annoying to play for a small random chance of getting a drop. The normal's were fun. I was fine with it taking time. I am not fine with it taking time to NOT get the full costume.

Thought I would throw my name on the list too.

Grind Grind Grind, that is cryptics new matra. Fine so be it, but this is simply absurd.

People, your customers all have jobs and families or a combination of the two. Most of the people I know in STO are on a couple of hours a week at most. So lets do a little math. For sake of argument we will say Jane Doe has enough time to do 7STF's a week. Now we all know ground STF's take much longer so we will not go into hours.

at 2 tokens per Elite STF, Jane needs to do 20 STF's per peice. That is 60 total for ground... 60 for space.

120 tokens / 7STF's = 17.14 Weeks

17 weeks to get a SET. That is 4.5 Months at 1STF a day....

Now some people like myself only have time to do a couple of STF's on saturday. It would take me 60weeks (that is over 1 Year) to get one of these Sets.


It is absurd that Cryptic has designed something that only a person with no job and no life can acquire. But to top it off, even at spending an entire year doing STF's there is a very real chance (if the winter event is any indication) that you will NEVER get the ultra rare drops that unlock the helmet.


Over the holiday I have had some time off and I have done about 20 Elite Stf's. Ive not gotten a single ultra rare drop, or even a piece of salvage. The Price for this "costume" is entirely too high and it is falsely advertised. If this is any indication of the treatment and consideration we are to receive as players in the future, they are going to loose the very player base that helped them get this far.

[Archived Post]

I have found myself a good strong team to run elites with. And its going great.
But we can't run this non-stop, all the time. And it still doesn't change the fact its based on a lucky, random, low drop change. Plus there are 4 other people on the team also farming for the same things. So even if one drops, we still gonna have to farm for it 4 more times.
And all my team really is after is the full costume unlocks.

A few ideas floating around:

Make the XI unlock the full costume.(And by "full" I mean "full", no compromise please.)
Allow the XII to be purchased for EDC. (120 elite runs, 240 normal runs)
Replace the 2EDC drops from elite runs with 1 special elite version of the EDC that you need to gather 120 to buy a mk XII set with, and 60 for the XI set


imo The best option is nr 1, mk XII set still got very impressive stats(maybe up them alittle?) to make it unique and then the Mk X can unlock the options XI used to.
Problems with 2 and 3 are, nr2 is gonna be a pain for people that can't run STFs that much and nr3 will still only allow people that do elite runs to get costume unlocks.

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I have been runing a lot elite with other elite player and most people are lucky to see one for every 100 elite runs. I have run with people how done over 100 and not seen one. It is shaping up as 1% or 2% drop rate on Mr XII set and 4% or 5% for prototype borg salvage. Many people in my fleet plain to leave if these numbers hold up and that means leaders as well.

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Actually... the ONLY reason Starfleet ships haven't had cloaks is because of the "Treaty of Algeron" (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron)

As you should be aware, at this point in the Star Trek timeline on STO, Romulus has been destroyed and the Romulans are scattered and no longer have a true established government, therefore the treaty can not still be in effect when one of the participants in the treaty no longer exists as a government. Starfleet would be extremely foolish not to develop cloaking technology in all of their ships in all actuality.

The facts are irrefutable, and to quote the borg, "resistance is futile", as there is no valid reason not to put this theory in effect and act on the new ability.

Correct, the treaty of Algeron is the root of it. However, the destruction of the Romulan homeworld does not dissolve their nation, nor does it invalidate the treaty. However, your reasoning is sound, were it true the treaty no longer applied.

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Added to my list of feedback.

Cheers,

Brandon =/\=

Thank you. Have Gozer & crew play with /Godmode off before releasing the missions. ;)

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Thank you. Have Gozer & crew play with /Godmode off before releasing the missions. ;)

lol You make a good point my friend.

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The borg STF's are supposed to be the endgame raid for this game. In other games 5 players helping you out is normal and 10 to 40 players or more is considered a raid. Raids are supposed to be challenging and grueling to complete but the rewards in the end are well worth it. What the devs did was pull a very successful trick that WoW uses all the time, the token system.

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The borg STF's are supposed to be the endgame raid for this game. In other games 5 players helping you out is normal and 10 to 40 players or more is considered a raid. Raids are supposed to be challenging and grueling to complete but the rewards in the end are well worth it. What the devs did was pull a very successful trick that WoW uses all the time, the token system.

Yeah its surpose to be endgame.
But endgame WoW and other games atleast guarantee you get endgame gear sets if you run X amount of times.

The old system where bosses dropped gear, they would atleast always drop one. And even if it wasn't the one you needed, it only took a few more runs before you got it. It was really so easy to get it.
And with the token system they would always drop tokens to get endgame gear and everyone could get thier set with more certainty. (say boss drops 1 token, and you need 5 for buy an item part.. then a team of 5 would need to defeat that boss 25 times so eveyone can get something equally).

Thier token system aren't based on chance of a drop. They are based on gathering.
WoW switched to the token system to make it fair and easyer for everyone to get thier set, since they all run the same amount of times and do the same amount of work.
Rewarding TEAM effort


The same applies to the X and XI set in this game, since you can gather EDS to get them. But not the XII.

And that still doesn't change the fact the costume unlocks on the XI (mostly the honor guard set imo) looks ugly, unfinished, and and just plain wrong. I am only running to get the full costume unlocks, I don't care about the stats of the items (and from what I understood by OPs first post, so he is).

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Thank you. Have Gozer & crew play with /Godmode off before releasing the missions. ;)
No need for godmode when you're the one one-shotting them with kill commands.

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I'm sure many other have argued this topic already, but I wanted to make a new shiny post just for the Devs to go along with their new shiny armor.

The concept that we have to grind the STFs over and over again to accumulate enough chips to purchase the items is annoying, but it's something the players can deal with, myself included since the mk XI gear is (an extremely small percentage) better than the Purple mk XI gear I have currently which until now was the best in the game.

I also concede that players grudging through the Elite STFs should get something even better for their troubles, hence the existence of the mk XII gear. HOWEVER... they grudge through Elite only for a CHANCE to get the drop needed to earn their armor... Entirely unacceptable when you consider they could lose the roll for the drop every single time that it does drop from a mob. So YES this needs to be fixed now, and not later.

That note is not for me, as I do not plan to play through the headache of Elite right now, I want this solely fixed for my fellow players.

I'm not finished yet though... ( this is more besides the point, more of my personal hopes for the future)

I've been grinding like everyone else for the Encrypted Data Chips... Now I did notice it was slightly odd that the Devs didn't release much info on the new gears, but I figured hey, you see exactly what your getting from the store on DS9, and you can see the stats, so that's all you need... (though pictures of the visual effects of the ship gear would have been nice). Only now that I discover that even after grinding 120 EDCs and purchasing all 3 ground gears of a set including Armor, Shield, and Weapon for mk XI sets, this does not indeed unlock the armor we see the NPCs wearing in the store, in fact it only unlocks the body visuals (partially) with no helmet, making it basically what all armor looks like with visuals enabled...

I understand giving even unique visuals to the people who are lucky and vigilant enough to get the Elite drops... but... this dear sirs is false advertising, you show us only the NPC models wearing the armor as our guide to what the sets look like, and so we expect to be earning just that. This is the opinion of all I've spoken with.

As a long time veteran player and lifetime member who purchases cstore credits and has stuck with this game for a long time and defended it even with the lack of new content and end game content... I honestly expect more, and I demand more, as my time, effort, and money are worth more than what your trading me for it. I would expect this from the Ferengi, but I hoped for more from you Cryptic, you who I placed faith in when I decided to become a lifetime member...

This forum is the same as the United States government, in that a single voice is almost never heard and truly accepted, but I know others feel the same way, and with enough of us outraged at this, I absolutely do expect you to correct these errors that you've made in the development of this release.

I do thank you for your efforts in releasing new content into the game, so please don't think me to be ungrateful, as you could have simply left it as it was and not added anything at all. But consider the argument while placing yourself in my shoes, wouldn't you be disappointed as well after becoming excited about wearing that new shiny armor, and spending hours and hours grinding what you thought was going to pay off with that shiny armor in the end, only to find out that it was all in vain and that everything you've gathered during all that time could only get you a consolation prize that in no way makes it any better at all?

I will not be participating in anymore STFs until this is corrected, though I will keep my EDCs intact in hopes that you will hear the wisdom in this argument.

I thank you for reading, and I hope this was not in vain as well.

I smile when I see posts like this. Shows me sto is not full of "angry 12 yr olds" Well written and not bashing cryptic...well its not really cryptic anymore...but ya get my drift. Props good sir.

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I like how STFs are shaping up. I like that the STO team is really attempting to make a real "End Game", for once. There are other issues like needing new STFs and other things, but besides that-- the one thing that irks me the most is that MK XII can only be acquired through drops, that aren't garaunteed to happen, and not to mention you have to roll against everyone wanting it (which is always the entire group). You can very well go through countless Elite STFs and never acquire the MK XII gear as it is all pure chance, not only in getting it to drop but also in actually winning the roll.

It would be nice if a single piece would drop every run. You would still have to roll against everyone, but at least you'd have a garaunteed shot at getting something for your time. Either that or at least give us a token we can collect and eventually get a piece after so many Elite STF runs, much like how we can get the other sets, only it will take longer.

With either of these changes we wouldn't have to deal with STF runs that are total wastes of time. At least we will always have a shot at it, or can gradually work to obtaining the best gear. The fact that it's so random now sucks completely on every conceivable level.

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I smile when I see posts like this. Shows me sto is not full of "angry 12 yr olds" Well written and not bashing cryptic...well its not really cryptic anymore...but ya get my drift. Props good sir.

Many thanks on your comments, it's nice when people notice things like this.

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Have they even been responding to a lot of these threads involving the poor drop rates? All i've seen so far is that tribble had an adjustment to the STF drop rate, but it was still a bit vague. a lot of people seem to be upset and unhappy with the sheer luck drop rate on Prototype borg gear and Jem'hedar ships and as far as i know, not a peep about it Dev side.

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They only Problem i really see is the Need or Geed option not letting other get the items like it did be for.Be for it use too let every body get the items But now its like alot of times if your not the first person too click need or greed you get crap.too all most nothing at all.The Drops are fine its the Need or Greed option every body if fighting too get the items Don't blame the STF's Blame the Need or Greed option.It was like for all most a week and a half i was getting jack and now i no how to get items.

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I also concede that players grudging through the Elite STFs should get something even better for their troubles, hence the existence of the mk XII gear. HOWEVER... they grudge through Elite only for a CHANCE to get the drop needed to earn their armor... Entirely unacceptable when you consider they could lose the roll for the drop every single time that it does drop from a mob. So YES this needs to be fixed now, and not later.

As a long time veteran player and lifetime member who purchases cstore credits and has stuck with this game for a long time and defended it even with the lack of new content and end game content... I honestly expect more, and I demand more, as my time, effort, and money are worth more than what your trading me for it. I would expect this from the Ferengi, but I hoped for more from you Cryptic, you who I placed faith in when I decided to become a lifetime member...

.

Captain Kirk, I suspect that the Mk XII will drop when all Borg STF accolades are completed. It's possible they build it that way. I klnow, what's the point of using Mk X gear when we are VAs.

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I've pretty much just stopped playing except for the daily races for the Jem'hedar ship i'll never win. Beyond that there is literally nothing worth playing for, and even THAT is a joke seeing how it's a drop rate of "God hates me" to "I blackmailed Dstahl to get 3"

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"Annoying" is eactly the word I used to describe grinding through various levels to achieve a certain level of reward. I finally reached the rank of Captain after 106 days and three days of Christmas vacation playing. Someone on the Priority One Podcast said you can achieve end game in a weekend with a case of Red Bull. Even under the fee for service model, I would be skeptical as to this possibility. I would like to address this issue from a middle aged stable employable family man who likes to play a little and is willing to pay for it.

If the free to play model is design to entice more people to play every day for five to eight hours, I will eventually simply leave, not in anger, but out of the sheer frustration and boredom of having missions sit half done for a couple of days. Then play three or four hours, love my wife, work, be with my family, have other hobbies, and earn the solid paycheck that can afford to buy their C points, which is the eventual goal right? To use real money to get counterfeit money to "buy" imaginary gear to have more power than we do in real life.

It would seem to me that my demographic is the one that can actually afford to buy the goods, but is the one they expect to sacrifice every other priority to play a game. A fun game, based on my favorite genre, with great graphics, development and well thought out story lines, but a game nonetheless. I am still willing to pay for the product, but not when it goes free to play. Most definitely not if I have to grind so much longer in a back and forth press the button here, press it there, beam up fight, beam down fight, beam sideways read lots of text kind of punishment, so that finally after 3 months of normal life gameplay I can now finally fly a Galaxy class ship. It’s anticlimactic. Incidentally, we’re going sledding tomorrow. I won’t even turn my computer on. You see… I don’t really need dilitheum. I need money, and to get that I already have a grind.

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There are people on my fleet who are doing regular Terradome Runs because it is the only "untainted" STF. Ironic isn't it?

Somewhere along the line fun got thrown out of the equation.

STFs are suppose to be challenging, fun, and rewarding. When it comes to Elite, we don't have this trinity. Someone (Gozer) lost sight of the big picture.

Q4T .
It felt more rewarding running an old STF when you knew you were gonna dump the reward (yet another Borg deflector or some such) , then the rats maze we're doing now .
Plus the game of chance 4 the (crappy) rewards has ruined it all .

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I'm STF numb.... like I thought I would be and like all those who complained about it on tribble said I would be. Nuff said.

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I've pretty much just stopped playing except for the daily races for the Jem'hedar ship i'll never win. Beyond that there is literally nothing worth playing for, and even THAT is a joke seeing how it's a drop rate of "God hates me" to "I blackmailed Dstahl to get 3"

Lol, that's exactly what I've been doing, except I'm also spending cryptic points on the one in the cstore, not like it matters since I'm no longer giving them any money for them, so Idc.

Anyway, back to the main topic, one more reason I will never play these new fleet action STFs, and I use the term "STF" very loosely with these new grinds.

Did I actually read somewhere earlier in the thread though that Terradome is still active? I used to hate that thing, never beat it. But if it actually is still running like it used to, I think I've found my new favorite STF. Maybe that will be worth logging on longer than to run that race and log off. Now where did my fluidic space tribble get to?

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Well on the bright side of all of this, I found someone willing to pay for swtor who was looking for a veteran MMO'er to help their guild, so by the time I've ranked up a few characters over there and come back to check out the progress here, maybe this will all be fixed, and I'll be a 700 or 800 day vet :p

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I just did khitomer space elite with noobs I said something like who is on the probes and one quit
will you block noobs from ruining the elites until proper gear an used to it
Khitomer space i elite is not hard if you work as a group these newbies don't want help and quit when you try to help them

we should not be made to suffer with them being Incompetent and unwilling to work as team



modify the accolades in game for each map for minimum 25 to unlock elite

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Q4T .
It felt more rewarding running an old STF when you knew you were gonna dump the reward (yet another Borg deflector or some such) , then the rats maze we're doing now .
Plus the game of chance 4 the (crappy) rewards has ruined it all .

they increased tech drops on tribble I don't think it made it here yet

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Well on the bright side of all of this, I found someone willing to pay for swtor who was looking for a veteran MMO'er to help their guild, so by the time I've ranked up a few characters over there and come back to check out the progress here, maybe this will all be fixed, and I'll be a 700 or 800 day vet :p

same here I am on SWTOR I get my 60 day card today just one thing holding me here hmm
security lock out bug they are having so I can't update payment stuff


on the bright side no deflector drop yesterday but I did meet my goal in salvage to get to 30
when i started yesyerday i was at 10 I will have armor maco mark 11 today which i need badly

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The whole system is botched. How in the world did it come to everyone in Star Trek owning a Advanced Starship and gear by being a Vice Admiral? Aren't they suppose to be behind a desk? And whats up with weapons? Boring.

Loosing interest, especially sense The Old Republic came out. Season 5 should be called A Call To More Farming.

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If I understand correctly, the elite gear is not always dropping in these elite STFs. At least one piece should be guaranteed to drop each run. But if you are suggesting that each player in the STF get a piece of gear on every run, then I am against that.

The dice roll is rigged in my opinion, I've seen the same person win the dice roll 5 times running, it was then I left the instant, what are the odds of a winning a 1 in 5 roll 5 times running.

I know other MMOs have hacks to win the dice roll and I believe STO has them now too.

Grinding 100's of missions with only the possibility of getting 'THE' reward then having to win a roll is shameless and designed as nothing more than a time sink.

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Heh, I came back to the game last week and have had a blast (beta player but never got round to picking up retail until the STEAM sale last week :D)

but since I hit Vice Admirable (yeah, I dunno how I made it to Vice Admirable in 72 hours either, but I was enjoying the story missions and the STF's), what I've noticed mainly is how easy better gear is to obtain... hell, just by replaying old missions I can get brilliant XI gear thats better in 95% of situations that the gear you get from running the MACO/OMEGA/BORG stuff anyway

but hey, with season 6 I'm guessing we'll have even better gear and it will all be obsolete anyway

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What I would like to see happen is very simple... The set items can be obtained by drops in game like they are now.. that's fine and dandy.

However for those of us (like me) who always seem to be on the losing end of the RNG/roll, how about the set items be unlocked from the accolades attached to the STF's. There's 3 levels per each STF accolade.. so hit 25 Cure's and you get the Mk X engine.. Manage to sit through 50 Cure's, congratulations here's the Mk XI engine, and so forth. At least then you know that if you don't get the drop (which is extremely likely) you're still getting closer to obtaining the award anyway, even if it is by "grinding", at least you get something in the end.

One other change... Enable buying the set items with Rare Salvage as well as EDC's. I've already kitted out my ship with MK XI weapons, so there not really anything else worth getting with them.. but if they could be used to buy the set items (even if it is just Mk X / XI that's fine), it would make the Rare salvage, just so much more useful.. and may spark people into actually caring a bit more about the optional's.

I'm closing in on 100 STF's done.. and so far I've had 2 Common tech drops.. So I'm all for anything which preserves my sanity.

Oh and high Lone Samurai.. welcome to STO.. new temporairy home until Guild Wars 2? :D

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Oh and high Lone Samurai.. welcome to STO.. new temporairy home until Guild Wars 2? :D

Hells yes my friend... and will be broadcasting my GW show again from the now drowned Lion's Arch when the game releases (planning a release show, but need to get the radio station up and running again first)

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So we got rid of Emblems and Marks and now have two types of new currency. Said currency buys gear that, at MK-XII, is arguably no better than the MK-XI gear already in play. And in order to get this currency you have to grind?! Then, as the OP said, if you grind your heart out for the new "Fed Storm-trooper" gear, you get nothing more than a cross between the regular armor and the mercenary costume.

The OP was lucid, intelligent, and reasonable in his post, and I agree heartily. So far, I am very disappointed with the "new" PW take on our game. You can do better cryptic, and I know some of you want to do better. Put a little more stress on the PW overlords and make this transition something worth experiencing.

I will not grind for gear, or dilithium, or any other token thrown into the mix. I'll play missions and enjoy the company of my Fleet until things get better.

VA Barrett, USS Wanderingstar
Commodore, 4th Battlegroup
Fleet Marine Force

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I have so much to say about the new STFs and not one word would be possitive.
I hate every single thing about them and refuse to even talk about doing them. Once again, cryptic has taken from us something we used to build friendships and teams........Gamma was VA space and those that had never done a STF before would always find those of us that could run them eye's closed.
That was a mistake, thake from us the only actual thing those of us that had done every other single mission at least a dozen times. I hate the rewards, hate the Missions and above all i feel cheated and
hurt over a fact that they never even gave us, the players, a single option to keep them around.
Cryptic says they want STO to be social as well, but they keep taking away our social places one by one, Gamma was just that latest thing they took away. :mad:

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I have so much to say about the new STFs and not one word would be possitive.
I hate every single thing about them and refuse to even talk about doing them. Once again, cryptic has taken from us something we used to build friendships and teams........Gamma was VA space and those that had never done a STF before would always find those of us that could run them eye's closed.
That was a mistake, thake from us the only actual thing those of us that had done every other single mission at least a dozen times. I hate the rewards, hate the Missions and above all i feel cheated and
hurt over a fact that they never even gave us, the players, a single option to keep them around.
Cryptic says they want STO to be social as well, but they keep taking away our social places one by one, Gamma was just that latest thing they took away. :mad:

I totally get your annoyance, however you have to remember that this is a game and one they have to make money from or shut down and (from my point of view) the changes you are talking about have been made for streamlining and are mostly due to a dwindling playerbase and Cryptic are just using tools that actually are working in other games

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Update

After countless tries of doing infected elite space (both in tribble and now on holodeck) I finally got my first borg tech - waaahooo

BUT and a big BUT

I didn't get the one that allows me to purchase a Mark XII item. WTF!!! after all that I still can't get a mark XII. The space sets really are not any better then the regular borg set. So really why bother, however I will continue to do them so that I can purchase the DOFFs.

The ground sets look better, but boy after all the hard work in space I'm absolutely terrified of doing the ground elite. For me ground has always been way harder than space.

Like everyone has said, these STFs are stupid the way they are currently setup. I like STO and have been with them for 2 years, but they made a mistake when they updated the STFs. I prefered the old way.

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Well in a way you need to applaud the devs, they figured out a way to keep the STFs (Elite) appealing to the crowd... grind 'till you drop or get that coveted MKXII set. It took me over 180 STFs (Elite) to get the entire set also, it's a grind sure but at least I had a goal to live up to. I'm currently doing the grind again for the Space XIIs and the other ground XII set. And I'll be damned if I give up on this, it even made me like the STFs again!

Tho... having a 2nd option to buy the XIIs would be nice but I'd buff the price up to 120 EDCs per piece... just a thought really.

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The dice roll is rigged in my opinion, I've seen the same person win the dice roll 5 times running, it was then I left the instant, what are the odds of a winning a 1 in 5 roll 5 times running.

I know other MMOs have hacks to win the dice roll and I believe STO has them now too.

Grinding 100's of missions with only the possibility of getting 'THE' reward then having to win a roll is shameless and designed as nothing more than a time sink.

20% basically... Each roll is independent of the next.

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I am sorry to say, i hate every single part of the New STFs and have no desire to play them at all nor do I unless a certain group of friends need me to help. The old STFs actually were fun for me, I had to plan, adjust for the team's weakness and stength, and we could stop and talk about the next part we were about to face. We had to possition the team where we could do the most good and we were forced to trully earn the rewards for completing the Mission. Now, any person sith a ship and a phaser can beat any STF there is, done them all, and can say they are as nerfed as any mission in STO (what a joke).
Want to impress me, bring back the Old STFs and allow me a choice of which ones i want to do, and make the rewards for the OLD STF something worth the time we will put into them. I just would like the right to choose which STF i want to do now, and really hate to see Gamma, the front line in the War with the Borg, dead and gone. It's not like this post nor my thoughts on this matter really mean anything or matter at all as i doubt anyone ever really pays any mind to what we say anymore.:(

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Hello all.

I have not been a dedicated player of STO. Still, I return to the game because I really enjoy it. Now that I have "re-learned" STO, I do like the changes. I really like doing STF´s. Sure, I want the loot to get those cool mk XII sets.

Still, I think that not even with a LFT subs, is time enough to get them, why? Well, because we, as mortals, some day die....but the game will continue, so I guess my grandchild's may take those cool MK XII sets.

Ok, no more joking around now.

I do believe that must be very very rare stuff in game, but not to a point that a player have like 0,00001% of getting it.

In a decent number of STF´s I made so far, I know people that got the prototype borg salvage. Till now I only got a couple of rare salvage, so, mk XI.

The game is even more using more and more different types of currency for everything, in a way this is also good because it will add more variety to it. In this case, the prototype borg salvage drops, should be offered on the stores for players to buy them. This of course would be very expensive, it might require several currency types (EDC, dilithium, EC, etc) imagine the crafting system with so many stuff that is needed to craft one piece of gear, that can be easily adapted for this rare stuff.

This would made the players work hard for it, not only on STF´s but also doing many other stuff in game. It would avoid the "pure grind", still it would be possible to get it.

So, if this system does not change, 2 things may happen to the current STF´s missions. People get just the mk XI stuff and that gave up, or people will lose their interest because is impossible to get mk XII.

So, STO would be doff missions and daily missions only.....boring....

Also, even in the F2P, I would hate to see this rare stuff that many people is working their *** of to get it, on the CSTORE!

Sure, put more stuff on the C Store to make money from F2P but do not push it to a point that there is no interest to play or work for ubber cool gear in game just because it is available to buy for 25 bucks.....

Oh, and I am glad that I have not yet decided to get LFT subs. I was thinking about it, but it seams it is not the right move for now.

Regards,

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A comprimise is the best solution to the mk XII lotto drops.....Simply remove the 2 x EDC's we currently get from running the elite stf's (if doing elites then chances are players dont need common EDC's anymore), and replace them with 2 x Elite EDC's that can be exchanged for mk XII items when we have aquired enough of them (50 elite EDC's per piece perhaps?).....It's win win for both Cryptic who want to keep players grinding at the end game content, and for the player base who want to be rewarded accordingly for their time, effort and investment into STO.......

Cryptic/Dan (Gozer), the STF's are team based, and as such please reward the team equally and fairly, thats all we ask, and to be fair we are only asking for what is right and fair for everyone in this case.

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Adding my voice of discontent here.

I'm one of those people who have completly abysmal luck. It's so bad that it got to the point in other more real MMOs that if there wasn't a point system or people taking pitty on me and letting me lot on the uber drops while passing, I'd see everyone else see them before me. Including any new recruits.

I have no problem working for a drop. But when I have to rely on my luck... I'm inclined to quit the game and rant about how the absurd system that has chased me off. Which the friends I've made in game don't care much for as they shockingly like my company and have come to trust my skills. The negative word of mouth won't help either.

Give us another way. Put it in the optional drops so a skilled group can try to get it and have it drop in a loot pool. Make it so I exchange in a good deal of EDCs. SOMETHING.

I'm disapointed enough in a system that requires so much luck that i've just stopped playing. And I'm a life timer. How do you guys really expect f2p players to put up with this turd of a system when i've ran almost 200 elite stfs with seeing everyone getting at least one drop, if not both sets of mark 12 armor already and I've seen none.

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They definitely need to add some kind of way to acquire these other than LOTTO DROPS. The point of doing an ELITE grind is that you're guarenteed to get the ELITE loot. Not having a chance to get. This whole lotto drop is just a horrible idea and frankly its already cost them a lot of long time players.


Personally i'd love to see a group of debs grabbed at random to "pug" a few ELITE STFs with GOD MODE DISABLED to see just how possible they find it and post the loot they get. And if any PROTOTYPE loot pops up more than once, if at all i'd say it was safe to assume shenanigans.

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plain and simple, one word......"Burnout"!

that was major problem with many online games, grinding and get nothing and get frustrated and they leave.

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I am still shocked that people are so angry about this stuff.

The STF rewards are currently the most widely available MKXII purple gear in the game. How easy do you expect the drops to be? The system has been in place for what, about a month now?

In that time I have procured six of them (one shield 5 generic prototype) and I have a full time job just like most other people.

That the drop rates are poor is true, but that ensures rarity.

Increasing the drop rate would simply restore STO to the same place it was a month ago for me. Namely that I can log-in and have absolutely nothing I cna d to develop my character.

If there is a plan implemented to make these items available by certainty, namely from EDCV or some new equivalent, I am in the minroity view that this shoudl require a awful lot of them.

[Archived Post]

I usually hate posting on the forums just because they tend to be so negative, but some great points have been made. I love playing STO, but even I am feeling the frustration. At this point i've easily run over 400 of the STFs. Intially I stuck to the normal versions got my gear and learned the mission. I've played a good chunk of my runs on elite now. From playing them and reading the threads here are my thoughts:

1)let players feel like they are making headway. There have been many solutions offered with maybe the easiest being adding the prototype EDC. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a prototype tech drop but if you're not you at least know that eventually you'll get your gear. I will run a mission 40 times if I know at the end I will have my reward. Another solution would be maybe up the prototype salvage drop and allow for x amount of them to be traded for the prototype tech. People hate the lottery system. I don't want to run an elite STF and get nothing (and I constinder a blue MK XI nothing at this point sadly) where as the guy who is running this for the first time ever as he decided not to do normal, didn't bring hypos nevermind regenerators, aggros the whole map, or blows the optional after not listening to the rest of the team be the one to get the rare MK XII drop.

2)one-shots....noone likes them unless they are the ones doing it. Nothing more frustrating than being full shields, and full health and going boom. I don't mind things taking a while to put down or forcing people to use some tactics or exploding when you are weakened but everyone should be able to take at least one hit.

3)back to team based rather than dps being the king. Ground isn't too bad as I see every class being usefull but every mission should be able to be accomplished with 5 of one class (keep in mind it might be harder). My biggest problem is space. It seems that if you want to do space elite you better be flying an escort. I mainly play a tac but I love my RSV and have been playing it since I hit end game but frankly it doesn't do enough damage to take things down quickly enough on elite and that's with all anti-borg equipment. So it seems now I am being forced to fly an escort (and am currently doing so) I loved that this game wasn't cookie cutter and you could be successful with a variety of different set-ups for any class or ship.

4)optionals...I've seen a number of great ways of thinking outside the box to complete these on elite. Personally I am not a fan of metagame thinking, it just feels like cheating somehow. Good tactics should prevail without having to know that if I don't kill/destroy x, then y won't spawn.

5)elite pugs...need to do something here. Leaver penalties maybe being account wide, minimum gear requirements before entering. Just some suggestions.

It's funny but despite the rant I love Star Trek, and I still enjoy playing STO. I hate the doom and gloom that usually permeates the forums here because this is a good game I just feel in this case community feedback was ignored. I accept some blame in this as I am an active player but not an active poster. I think if we the silent majority that enjoy the game spoke up more in the calm rational fashion that is being done in this thread maybe these suggestion would be taken more seriously.