Season 7 - Real Exploration

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The game as it is atm satisfies two main player groups - those looking for action and/or roleplay. Cryptic has done a magnificent job, especially in regards to the action, to implement it to STO. But I think one large player group hasn`t been given the love they deserve in a Star Trek MMO. Star Trek is more over all about exploration - and hey, there is really no real exploration in STO. This doesn`t wonder, because every MMO lacks of real exploration., so there is a big chance for STO.

So lets make season 7 about real exploration. Let`s make the wormhole the gateway to a (mainly) real unexplored sector which needs to be discovered. If you enter the gamma quadrant you should be able to navigate your ship in any direction you like and the systems need to be hidden until you are in range. While you are in gamma quadrant your ship consumes something like fuel which needs to be refilled in a star base, so exploration ship are making sense now (more efficient space travel) and finding new species, where you can refill your ship, starts to be a critical requirement to making any further steps in gamma quadrant. Fleets should be able to share their maps and coordinate the exploration.

If you enter a new sector a lot of work needs to be done before you can see or enter any system. Your duty officers will have to do days to complete scans, evaluate life conditions and planing further steps. This should also be able to be shared in fleets. If all the preliminary work is done you are going to visit the new systems hoping for friendly contact...maybe this species-work could be done by the community as it creates a set of missions in the foundry with given parameters...or there is just a random mission from foundry.

In the last stage of expansion of season 7 (or 8) you can discover new, rare materials in the gamma quadrant and fleets are going to compete for the best mining rights at the new species allowing them to construct a space station and harvest this ressources. They can be sold and combined to new tech which makes you able to reach star systems in the gamma quadrant where noone has been before...


I want to point out that even if this seems a very open process Cryptic could regulate the speed of exploration in gamma quadrant so that it fits to their speed.

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I think season 7 should be all about PVP.

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I think Exploration should incorporate both PvP and PvE for territory control.

:)

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I don't think they can ever turn this game into a true exploration game... Why? Because they don't want to.

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I think Exploration should incorporate both PvP and PvE for territory control.

:)

Now there's an idea, but I don't realistically see that happening. I simply don't think Cryptic can pull it off, but they may surprise me.

The most I'm hoping for, are new maps and new game modes. Such as shuttle combat, maybe some modes where some of the higher level abilities are disabled and play more like the lower level PVP. The most fun I had in PVP in this game was thru the Commander and Captain ranks, the playing field was a lot more level at those ranks.

I would like to see Rankings, leaderboards, a crack down on the Frakking exploiters, the list goes on and on. PVP has been IGNORED by Cryptic for far, far too long and it's a travesty that such is the case. STO could have the best PVP of any MMO out there if they would just pay attention to it, just don't let it become P2W and we'll be alright.

But if they could come up with one huge zone for exploration and open PVP/PVE that plays similarly to Skyrim or even Eve Online, that would be awesome.

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I think season 7 should be all about PVP.

Well, then Season 8...I can wait ;-)

Now there's an idea, but I don't realistically see that happening. I simply don't think Cryptic can pull it off, but they may surprise me.

Let`s take a look what they really would need to do:
1. [Easy] Make systems in sectors hidden and appear when you get your ship in range.
2. [Easy] Ships need to consume something. This was originally already planed as in early beta plans your crew should be "consumed" and refilled at space stations. That`s why they are in the game at all.
3. [Easy] Make ships stuck in new sectors until a bunch of assignments are completed.
4. [Hard] Transfer one global galaxy map to individuell galaxy map related to the systems a player had discovered. While it seems to me to be a simpel databank id-thing i can image there needs to be a new system in place to show this map

That`s all. Everything else should already be in the game. Station building, getting mining rights based on affection xp (or something like that) doesn`t need to be implementet in the first build...

Systems protected by a fleet star base could be open pvp...

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This type of exploration that the OP talks about could work well with the oft-mentioned Fleet Starbases.

If you find a decent system with enough natural resources, your Fleet could create an orbital Starbase.

You could stockpile resources found through the exploration of systems and DOff missions in the Fleet Bank. Once you have enough, you could construct a Deep Space Starbase in a system that would not otherwise have enough natural resources build an Orbital Base.

If a Very Rare Class M Planet is found during exploration, a ground Starbase could be constructed, making a mini-colony.

Starbases could be constructed in pieces by using Duty Officer Missions related to their Specialties. The Warp-Theorist, for example could work on the main power system. Astrometrics could construct Solar Arrays for secondary power. Fabrication would work on the main Hull. Conn Officers might work on the thruster systems. Energy and Projectile Weapon Specialists would be able to add defenses to the Starbase. Adding a Geologist in to a work group could lower overall costs of a piece as they would be able to locate local materials to work with rather than entirely using the Fleet's construction materials. A lot of pieces would have to be made for a fully operation Starbase, which would encourage Fleet Members to work together on the construction.


Entering a system with your own Fleet's completed Starbase would replenish your Exploration Resources (such as Food and Energy) for free, while visiting another Fleet's Base would have a cost. That cost would go in to that Fleet's Bank. This would encourage people to construct Bases so as to be able to travel farther and explore more systems rather than having to return to the Alpha Quadrant when they run low on Resources.

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Hm. Boards went down while I posted and my post appeared multiple times. Annoying.

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It wouldn't be fun.

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DELETED. Again.

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Would be nice to play in a massive open ended sandbox space area where you can explore hundreds of stars and see what's out there. Like in Elite kinda. A procedural generated star map.

Or perhaps convert them clusters that is already in use in the game and make them borderless, use a proper warp drive and have lots of unknown systems not just pop up but always be there and the players have to discover them all pokemon style lol. Needs to be hundreds or thousands and takes the players along time to catalogue the whole region of space. Also have something at like memory alpha or maybe Jupiter station a catalogue system where players generate a system report and goes to this station and enters the report (an inventory item) to the stations commander or computer and then the station has a computer which can show what percent of the region is catalogued and which isnt so players can go pick a star to explore and stuff.

Should be some way to do this. All planets should be if class m or similar life supporting ones should be able to beam down to investigate see if theres life forms and maybe contact as a optional for the discovery system.

Maybe even have a terraforming system to convert planets into class m or somit, a colony system where ppl can start a colony with their fleets potentially, a mining system possibly to expand their colony by mining stuff to build buildings and stuff. Claimable systems. People can have their own planets, bit like a 4x game and develop them.

Just random ideas incase a dev is listening. Which yes these are hard to do systems/gameplay but this is ideally what a trek game should have been from the start a sandbox game where you can explore the galaxy and work together to form colonys, and control regions of space and fight over regions and stuff.

Hopefully one day this could make it to the game i doubt it cos with the way the development is going its tiny things and good concepts arent on the priority it seems these days they just want little things to get ppl to buy now. Shame like which i can understand but they should have just stayed a sub game if thats the case. Hmm going OT here so anyhow colonys, terraforming, exploring and cataloguing the galaxy bit by bit by every player and reporting to a central location/computer to build a library of the universe would be sweet indeed.

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We can only dream ...

STO will only become Star Trek when Real Exploration of Unknown Space is introduced. Forget random instanced star-clusters, we need real sectors & location linked with hidden pathways allowing access to alien worlds and stations (no star charts please).

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I still kinda wish eve online was star trek online because that game has everything trek needs. Ideal trek game for me then would be eve online with a trek skin. Tho maybe keep the space ship part of sto as thats not too bad.

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And then fleets would function as corporations and we threw everything resembling Star Trek out of the window :D

Don't get me wrong, these are neat ideas. But it is merely EVE Online you describe. I'd appreciate exploration which does not require alienating the game from the IP any more.

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I still kinda wish eve online was star trek online because that game has everything trek needs. Ideal trek game for me then would be eve online with a trek skin. Tho maybe keep the space ship part of sto as thats not too bad.




EVE Online has been around for almost a decade now. Give STO another eight years and it will have a ton of stuff, too.

Back on topic, all of the ideas in this thread are making me excited. Its sad really, 'cause now I wanna log on and go play some this exploration stuff right now and it doesn't exist anywhere except in our imaginations. Depressing.



And then fleets would function as corporations and we threw everything resembling Star Trek out of the window :D

Don't get me wrong, these are neat ideas. But it is merely EVE Online you describe. I'd appreciate exploration which does not require alienating the game from the IP any more.


I will have to take your word for it. I only know OF EVE. I have never never played it.

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And then fleets would function as corporations and we threw everything resembling Star Trek out of the window :D

Don't get me wrong, these are neat ideas. But it is merely EVE Online you describe. I'd appreciate exploration which does not require alienating the game from the IP any more.

I dont think it would. IP isnt just about feds and starfleet the IP involves alot more.

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I think season 7 should be all about PVP.

If the dev diary is to be believed Season 6 is a focus on PvP

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Don't get me wrong, these are neat ideas. But it is merely EVE Online you describe. I'd appreciate exploration which does not require alienating the game from the IP any more.

Eve`s focus is trade. And that makes the game very complex. I tried Eve and played for three month - it`s very beautiful but it is just a bit to aseptic. There is not enough action to make the game fun...and you can`t play it on a satisfying level if you have a regular job. So STO could make it better.

I also don`t agree that real exploration isn`t IP. I would say instead, the game, as it is now, is not IP. Star Trek without exploration is not Star Trek, its more like Star Wars ;-)

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i support this idea!
fleets would gain sense :D

AND - the maps could be real 3D - sector under/above sector

a fleet would have the possibility to explore new system, on every planet there would be a diplomatic/fight/trade or science/tactical/engineering mission to get affection XP, then the system could be added to fleets territory.

(fleet would gain a base, or some comodity there - perhaps fuel?)

there could be more fleets "home" on one planet. and if a fleet had like 5 different planets on highest affection XP, it could establish a base which could be (choice) involved in PVP.

there would be accolades for fleets and members , first fleet to explore the sector as whole would gain some bonuses (technology, temporal power gains etc..)

the bases could be done in foundry by fleet itself - that way we had custom PVP too :D

the most visited fleet PVP ground would also get some bonuses for its creators...

and imagine this with 3 factions (fed, klinks and romulans ) :D

just a bunch of ideas

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The game as it is atm satisfies two main player groups - those looking for action and/or roleplay. Cryptic has done a magnificent job, especially in regards to the action, to implement it to STO. But I think one large player group hasn`t been given the love they deserve in a Star Trek MMO. Star Trek is more over all about exploration - and hey, there is really no real exploration in STO. This doesn`t wonder, because every MMO lacks of real exploration., so there is a big chance for STO.

So lets make season 7 about real exploration. Let`s make the wormhole the gateway to a (mainly) real unexplored sector which needs to be discovered. If you enter the gamma quadrant you should be able to navigate your ship in any direction you like and the systems need to be hidden until you are in range. While you are in gamma quadrant your ship consumes something like fuel which needs to be refilled in a star base, so exploration ship are making sense now (more efficient space travel) and finding new species, where you can refill your ship, starts to be a critical requirement to making any further steps in gamma quadrant. Fleets should be able to share their maps and coordinate the exploration.

If you enter a new sector a lot of work needs to be done before you can see or enter any system. Your duty officers will have to do days to complete scans, evaluate life conditions and planing further steps. This should also be able to be shared in fleets. If all the preliminary work is done you are going to visit the new systems hoping for friendly contact...maybe this species-work could be done by the community as it creates a set of missions in the foundry with given parameters...or there is just a random mission from foundry.

In the last stage of expansion of season 7 (or 8) you can discover new, rare materials in the gamma quadrant and fleets are going to compete for the best mining rights at the new species allowing them to construct a space station and harvest this ressources. They can be sold and combined to new tech which makes you able to reach star systems in the gamma quadrant where noone has been before...


I want to point out that even if this seems a very open process Cryptic could regulate the speed of exploration in gamma quadrant so that it fits to their speed.

It's a neat idea. I just don't think they'll go for it unfortunately. It's not "bare minimum".

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They made the foundry, they made a second faction, they redone crafing, they have gone f2p and they added a dilithium auction house. Why shouldn`t they be able to implement station building and real exploration?!?

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they made a second faction

Any klingon players left who may want to comment on that, lol. If any of you are still here....

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They made the foundry, they made a second faction, they redone crafing, they have gone f2p and they added a dilithium auction house. Why shouldn`t they be able to implement station building and real exploration?!?

The foundry barely works, and is not useful for anything other than optionless linear storytelling. KDF faction neither gets a full set of levels, nor a complete set of mission content. Crafting isn't crafting. It's assembly, there is no chance for successes or failures, and no options of any kind. Trading dilithium for cp is not exactly the apotheosis of complex system design. All these things were done to bare-minimum specs.

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Here's what I would love for exploration. Leave it the way it is now.... up until you hit commander or captain.

Now, say you're commander/captain/higher level and you enter one of the exploration zones. You fly to one of the zone boarders. You receive a pop up that will allow you to warp back to the main galaxy zone that exploration zone is connected to as well as a second button "To go where no man has gone before..."

This is where things get interesting. You'd have a full slew of missions for both your captain and away team as well as you DOFFs. These new zones would be for you (and you fleet... being retroactive if you found it alone then joined a fleet later) via a new transwarp option. Here you'd be able to build a starbase... only AFTER successfully making an ally from at least one planet/system OR for KDF, conquering said system (or diplomacy... KDF had some diplomats). This would take some time to do solo but doable.

Once you're able to get a foothold in a system and construct a starbase (or even earlier than that) you could station your unused starships here for defense. They'd turn into a unique kind of DOFF with specific mission types of further exploration, system defense, rescue/assault missions, etc. while also using standard doffs for those tasks as well while you are free to play the rest of the game.

Now, finally, territory control. I'd like this to be PVP optional. A flag you could turn off or on once you've gotten to a certain system loyalty. Territory control would ALWAYS be active through NPC assaults like the borg defense missions we currently have. These NPC encounters could be KDF, Romulan, or an alien species unique to that zone. Turning on PVP territory control would flag your exploration system to be entered by random chance from other players discovering your zone the same way you discovered it (pity the player who enters a well established system complete with starbases, NPC defense ships AND player ships), as well as sending a message to all opposite faction starbases (or just one if you so choose). Successfully defending your zone will boost your loyalty across the zone, possibly swaying more systems and planets to join your specific faction. Losing will, of course, lower that loyalty across the zone, which could sway loyal systems to go neutral or even against your faction.

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I think season 7 should be all about PVP.

just like WoW, PvP's something this game will never be good at doing.

Your suggestion would be the Arena of STO, and will destroy it just as thoroughly.

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I don't think they can ever turn this game into a true exploration game... Why? Because they don't want to.

Yep, too late for that. The very poor ideas they started out with are now glaring.

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Isn't dstahl back in charge and one of his long term goals for STO was true exploration? Therefore, saying that the devs don't want to do a true exploration game is false.

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How PWE has gotten so tied up in this game, Season 7 will be all about the C-Store and lockboxes and master keys and maybe just maybe 1 mission.

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Regarding exploration, I think that the best idea is for them to essentially not try, since whatever they try to do is going to be as half-baked as other features, like diplomacy and crafting.

If they somehow incorporated foundry and exploration together, where we do most of the epic story-telling about strange, new worlds, then you'll really see improvements. All they essentially need is a dev to play missions, and pick ones that make sense in exploration clusters, etc. Or, they assign authors with specific mission designs, letting us make and submit missions that will simply blow away random kill 5/5 enemies and scan 5/5 trees.

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How PWE has gotten so tied up in this game, Season 7 will be all about the C-Store and lockboxes and master keys and maybe just maybe 1 mission.

Yeah - I see your point ;-)

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First, I think pvp does need help, but not by putting it in the exploration system. Territory control belongs in the war, not exploration.

But to do exploration right, I think they're going to have to harness the Foundry. Make a category of short missions in the Foundry especially for exploration. They can be voted up or down by the playerbase. They should include first contact missions, some would be peaceful, others would involve combat.

There could also be uninhabited worlds that could be colonized by fleet starbases. The ideas about base building with doff missions and so on would work fine there.

The exploration zones should be a lot bigger though, we don't want ships bouncing off each other out there. You come across systems and a mission from the list takes over. This list needs to be much, much larger than the random exploration missions we have now, and if possible weeds out ones you've done before behind the scenes.

We could have chains of missions involved with new species found in the exploration missions. Finish the first one, a new mission pops up as available.

Maybe this is too grandiose for the small dev team to tackle. But that's why I want to harness the Foundry to get lots of missions for it. These shouldn't count against foundry slots so the best authors can make dozens of them.

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Craig "Zinc" Zinkievich (executive producer): Exploration will never take a backseat in Star Trek Online. Heck – in all the series, Starfleet is always sending captains off to chart new systems or classify nebulas. So we don't view exploration as a "break" from other gameplay – it's integral. Expect to be encouraged to boldly go! And as an incentive to explore space, discovering new civilizations is one of the major ways to open up new resources and equipment and make new alien recruits available to you, your fleet and your faction!

My question is whether the universe will be static. For example, if I log off World of ******** and then login a week later everything is pretty much still the same. Nothing has really changed. Will the world be dynamic in STO?

Zinc: The universe of Star Trek Online is shaped and changed by the actions of the players. The Federation and the Klingon Empire will be competing for influence and resources throughout the galaxy and players can influence the results through PvP battles and a system we're calling Competitive PvE.

The actions, victories and defeats of you and your faction will affect how the economy and history of Star Trek Online unfolds. Exploration is always happening – expect to see new planets and races discovered that were unknown the last time you logged in. Your actions could be the deciding factor on whether these new planets side with the Federation or the Klingons.

Source: Ask Cryptic, August 2008 (http://www.startrekonline.com/node/85)

We still need this desperately. Make the universe alive instead of static!

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The exploration zones should be a lot bigger though, we don't want ships bouncing off each other out there. You come across systems and a mission from the list takes over. This list needs to be much, much larger than the random exploration missions we have now, and if possible weeds out ones you've done before behind the scenes.

It`s important to me, that Exploration is a challenge and hard to reach far systems( because of that the "fuel"^^) So there couldn`t be a list or something like that. There should be a starting point (a wormhole) for all players and then your undertanding of the game, or your fleet, or your personal tech level (crafting?) and your luck should determine how far you will come. So to be a bit "deeper" in this quadrant would be a real achievement. You don`t get this feeling if we take current "exploration" sectors, make them much bigger, and picking a random mission....no sir!

To make this more tasty for Cryptic: you could sell special exploration ships or emergency fuel sets in CStore ;-)

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Source: Ask Cryptic, August 2008 (http://www.startrekonline.com/node/85)

We still need this desperately. Make the universe alive instead of static!

ah I remember that, oh how wonderful it sounded back then. The truth though, is a whole new thing. Just about nothing they said back then exists. its a Sad thing it is. But it is true, and I doubt we will ever see it.

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ah I remember that, oh how wonderful it sounded back then.

We were naive back then...

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We were naive back then...

Aye, I fell for it. This whole affair from start to finish has made me wary. I will probably never preorder another game, buy a lifetime for another mmo, purchase additional content, or allow my love of Star Trek to sway good judgement. The IP is cheapened, the customer is dissatisfied.

How cool would this game be right now if it were anything claimed in the Aug, 2008 Ask Cryptic? Very, imo.

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Aye, I fell for it. This whole affair from start to finish has made me wary. I will probably never preorder another game, buy a lifetime for another mmo, purchase additional content, or allow my love of Star Trek to sway good judgement. The IP is cheapened, the customer is dissatisfied.

How cool would this game be right now if it were anything claimed in the Aug, 2008 Ask Cryptic? Very, imo.

I'd be happy to be wide awake at 01:38 hours because it means extra STO time. Now, i'm just waiting for a doff mission to end so I can grab another, then go try to sleep.

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I'd be happy to be wide awake at 01:38 hours because it means extra STO time. Now, i'm just waiting for a doff mission to end so I can grab another, then go try to sleep.

I guess that's the local time orbiting Voss :)

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Aye, I fell for it. This whole affair from start to finish has made me wary. I will probably never preorder another game, buy a lifetime for another mmo, purchase additional content, or allow my love of Star Trek to sway good judgement.

How cool would this game be right now if it were anything claimed in the Aug, 2008 Ask Cryptic? Very, imo.

To be fair i would like to mention, that Cryptic has been hunted since they started the game - which wouldn`t exist if Cryptic would not have been able to make STO in a very short time. As I know the (Perpetual) license had a temporal dead line and the quick and dirty style of Cryptic we critize today had made it possible to hold the license at all.

After that, they had to help atari and make the game profitable. They just implemented Atari when Atari announced to sell Cryptic. Then the chinese came and they had to go f2p. So I think, the guys@Cryptic are as frustrated as the community that they had to discard almost every idea they mentioned in Asc Cryptic 2008.

But now, this game is as profitable as it ever will be. Now it`s time to do the fun part :)

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But now, this game is as profitable as it ever will be. Now it`s time to do the fun part :)

Thing is:

Fun for me is having missions with several outcomes and puzzles based on my choices in the mission (not just dialouges... If I kill the kittens, I want bad karma).

Fun for <randomguy42> (hope noone uses that name) is PEW PEW PEWing.

Fun for Cryptic and PW is the money that comes out of grab-bags.

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Yeah so it seems everyone but you and me is having fun right now. :mad:

So I hope Cryptic is doing now something for us - i would support both things you mentioned in your post, let`s them decide in which order they may satisfy our needs :)

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I am all for more Exploration, regardless if it is incorporated into a full open universe map or (much) more sector maps.
I think that STO needs a lot more non war missions and game content. I know the federation is at war with almost every other faction and so on, but for me star trek was always about exploring the unknown and preventing (!) wars.
I also think that exploration and military conquest should not be intermingled to much.

Just some wild iedas here:
Maybe STO could be made attractive to other types of players than roleplayers and PvPers. How about making the Exploration part more like a "Sim City" style game, where a Fleet/Player is engaged with building up a Starbase or colony far away from the federation/klingon empire and responsible to keep it running. Maybe socialing with several random alien species in this sector and make this base/colony a home for that fleet/player.
Making peace agreements (fed side) or opress (KDF ;)) some aliens that live near the colony to get some rescources.
Many things would need to be done, like mining asteroids, exploring adjactent planetary systems, studying anomalies (real big ones like in the shows, that have somekind of impact) or even defending the station/colony from some evil aliens. (just look some early DS9 episodes there are some nice ideas)
The Starbase/Colony itself also needs to be looked upon, like upgrading it, attract more colonists or mercants.
Micro management of the Starbase, like make it produce Dilithium, EC or construct a ship there, something like that.

apropos sector maps:
Another idea would be to make the galaxy Map itself 3d. So there would much more room to make sectors to be adjacent to each other. Aditionally we didn't had to travel through the wormhole because "our" side of the galaxy would be much more open for discovery and exploration.


Live long and prosper.

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Sounds like you want the Genesis system that was hyped during development but never happened.

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If we did open it up to explore strange new worlds as mentioned in the OP, lets also toss in controllable sub-orbital/planetary flight for shuttles/fighters as well, from takeoff to landing(i.e no cutscenes or CG). Nothing irritates me more about this game than the lack of this function. We all know Kirk, Picard, Cisco, Janeway, Archer, and everyone in-between used shuttle craft on more than one occasion. We already have flyable shuttle craft already, Its time to finally integrate that in-game folks, build out a shuttle bay for the ships and get to it, chop-chop! :D

In addition, if we're looking at exploring strange new worlds, we need to start allowing build-out of player controlled colonies and space stations in those parts of the universe.

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Maybe STO could be made attractive to other types of players than roleplayers and PvPers. How about making the Exploration part more like a "Sim City" style game, where a Fleet/Player is engaged with building up a Starbase or colony far away from the federation/klingon empire and responsible to keep it running.


If we did open it up to explore strange new worlds as mentioned in the OP, lets also toss in controllable sub-orbital/planetary flight for shuttles/fighters as well, from takeoff to landing(i.e no cutscenes or CG).

I like both ideas and I would love to see this in game but first we need to start small. If the package is to big, Cryptic will never deliver it :)

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Sounds like you want the Genesis system that was hyped during development but never happened.

The genesis system was a idea by perpetual, which should have been created star systems on the fly. I never believed this to get realized. I wonder if the devs@perpetual ever did for themselves. :)

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Maybe this "random"-quadrant should be round-based (two/three month per round), which means Cryptic has a set of systems or sectors and missions ready and randomly arrange them for one round. After that round, the quadrant would be mixed new for the next round. This round-based concept would allow Cryptic to make the content, fleets could improve their tactics from round to round and players not involved in a previous round could start with the next round and having similar conditions. So everyone would benefit from this.:)

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What happens when all the "unexplored" territory is explored and mapped a week after release?

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There are plenty of ways for Cryptic to control progress speed:
1. Your ship will consume some sort of fuel. If they increase this variable players/fleets will need to build more space stations to get deeper into the quadrant/content
2. After you entered a new sector your duty officers will have to do a lot of missions before you can enter any system. So they could increase the amount of time need to complete this mission to slow down players progress.
3. They could decrease the rate of systems whit inhabited planets...

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What happens when all the "unexplored" territory is explored and mapped a week after release?

Right. In a game like this there is no real, infinite universe to play in. The best you can do is fake it.

Granted some forms of fakery are more effective than others.

Seriously, I'd be satisfied if they just created more kinds of exploration missions. Right now all we have are a few variations and only the scenery changes:

1. Scan Anomalies
2. Run Around and Shoot Stuff
3. Run Around and Scan Stuff
4. Run Around and Scan Stuff While Being Shot At
5. Give Stuff Away

How about stuff like:

6. Investigate Pre-Warp Civilization (Branching Dialog/Optional Objectives/Commendation XP)
7. "Treasure Hunt"/Geocaching
8. Investigate Ancient Ruins

Oh, and whatever happened to the interactive flora and fauna we were told they were going to work on ages ago? About the only thing we ever got were roaming packs of targs, talaxian hook spiders, etc. and not in exploration missions either.

I want flowers that shoot at me, darn it. Ancient security devices that protect the planet long after the native race dies out.

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Oh, and lest I forget, colonies with actual colonists would be nice.

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Right. In a game like this there is no real, infinite universe to play in. The best you can do is fake it.

Yeah, but the way it is now, it isn`t giving a whiff of exploration feeling. They really could do better. The way I described there is maximal output of Cryptic`s input. One or two systems they create could mean weeks for us to find...i can`t see how Cryptic could better fake the lake of content and make the community happy at the same time.

[Archived Post]

Okay, let's take the original post and look at it.

1. "Navigate in any direction"

What you really mean here is "infinite space" or a really, really big map. Infinite space is not going to happen because the game is map-based. So let's assume a really, really big map. Or maybe a bunch of really, really big maps with different features.

2. "Hidden systems"

Okay, that might be doable. In fact, some kind of "fog of war" effect where you don't even see other ships unless they're nearby would add to the feeling of being out on the frontier.

What happens when you find a hidden system? Unless there's additional complexity built in, that system will stay hidden once you leave and you'd have to find it again to go back to it. Assuming it's a persistent system and not random.

Thing is, we sort of already have this with the exploration sector anomalies. They're large maps with locations that we can't necessarily predict what we'll find there. And we have the same problem... we can find it, but we can't necessarily go back.

Still, I do like the idea of "finding" a world that I can go back to later on, so let's keep the notion in mind for some future update. It's probably not going to be a random place, but if there are enough of them it would keep the illusion alive for a little while.

3. "Fuel"

No way. I don't want to deal with fuel all the time, and that's what it would have to be. The Devs are not going to make a major change in how travel works and further complicate it by making it only work in one place. Furthermore, it's not really canon. Starships have the ability to keep going for a very long time.

4. "Shared Maps"

Not going to happen. The game database would have to keep track of not only all the little details of these new systems, but who found it, when they found it, and who else can see it. For every single player. Even worse if these new systems are randomized and there are potentially hundreds of them.

The more economical solution is a "shared" map that everybody can see... just like what we have now.

5. "Lots of work"

Okay, this is a realistic view of what it would really take to explore a new system. But is it fun gameplay? Do I park my starship in this system for days on end doing nothing but gathering information? Or do I have to keep cruising back to this location over and over to do the next task in the chain?

This is one reason why we have the DO system. To abstract the tedious work involved into a form people would actually not mind doing.

What I would like to see, which would be more realistic and within the reach of the current development of the game, would be a series of linked exploration missions similar to a Featured Episode. It would take you all the way from "find new world" to "colonize planet" or whatever. It would require the ability to chain the missions so they can only be unlocked in order. If set up right, these might be repeatable dailies.

Upon entering an exploration sector, you might have the option of starting the exploration mission chain instead of entering the real exploration sector as it exists currently.

It would provide an exploration experience, albeit in a limited way and not open-ended, and it could be revisited. Once the chain is complete, there would be a new frontier world you could visit (as a repeatable mission), perhaps a mining colony. Even better if it's a social zone you can unlock. The repeatable mission could possibly include a few optional objectives and duty officer assignments.

If there were one of these exploration mission chains for each exploration sector -- which I admit is not a trivial thing given Cryptic's resources at this point -- I think most people would be satisfied.

[Archived Post]

Okay, let's take the original post and look at it.

1. "Navigate in any direction"

What you really mean here is "infinite space" or a really, really big map. Infinite space is not going to happen because the game is map-based. So let's assume a really, really big map. Or maybe a bunch of really, really big maps with different features.



Well, you can have both. In fact Cryptic would make a really big map. Or prepare some sectors which will be put randomly together. But: if you make something like fuel to be consumed by your ship moving in this quadrant it will get harder to reach the deepest point in the quadrant (f.e. space station needs to be build to refill fuel). So yeah, this point might be infinite far away....it could be like this curve:
link (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/e/e7/LogWachs1.svg)

[Archived Post]

I previously suggested (back when we still had that annoying perma-grid) that rather than making each and every sector bigger, they should instead make alot of smaller ones. Simply take each sector and split them into one sub-sector.

Then, when entering a map, that map would be the only one truly loaded, and the surrounding sectors would be pre-loaded so that when you move through space, you load and unload sectors and their content (ships, planets, objects) on-the-fly.

This isn't impossible... A challenge, yes. and it will take time, but in the long run I think such a solution would prove more beneficial than the current sloution... because they could add space between sectors without having to entirely re-reconstruct entryways.

and it would get rid of the sector walls.

[Archived Post]

[...]
4. "Shared Maps"

Not going to happen. The game database would have to keep track of not only all the little details of these new systems, but who found it, when they found it, and who else can see it. For every single player. Even worse if these new systems are randomized and there are potentially hundreds of them.
[...]

Thousands, if not millions, are easily doable with current computer technology.

See, a sector is essentially a four-dimensional array: Coordinates X, Y and Z, a system name, for all systems. Let a sector have 20 systems worth mentioning, that's saving 80 values per sector of randomly generated space.

That's ridiculous for any computer built after... 1990?

Even the roughly 40 million sectors that exist in Star Trek Canon's Milky Way galaxy are ridculously easy to manage by a current server cluster. You know, we are talking about something like 400 megabytes of disc space on the server. For the whole galaxy represented in that simple way.

[Archived Post]

Thousands, if not millions, are easily doable with current computer technology.

See, a sector is essentially a four-dimensional array: Coordinates X, Y and Z, a system name, for all systems. Let a sector have 20 systems worth mentioning, that's saving 80 values per sector of randomly generated space.

That's ridiculous for any computer built after... 1990?

Even the roughly 40 million sectors that exist in Star Trek Canon's Milky Way galaxy are ridculously easy to manage by a current server cluster. You know, we are talking about something like 400 megabytes of disc space on the server. For the whole galaxy represented in that simple way.

This may be true, but I still face humongous loading times in social areas. I guess that wouldn't be any better in a huge, shared sector which constantly changes?

[Archived Post]

This is what year in game time? Everything near has already been explored. Meanwhile, there are how many wars going on?

With the Borg, Klingons (or Feds), Dominion, and whoever else breathing down each other's necks with hot plasma, how many ships could or would be spared for exploration?

And for any exploration to be meaningful, every system explored would have to become part of known space. We aren't free traders, we are serve empires. Exploring without reporting in = going rogue and breaks fundamental premises of the game. That would become problematic fast. Even Next Gen focused much more on relations with existing known colonies rather than truly exploring new worlds.

The alternative is what we already have, symbolic psudo-exploration by way of continually re-exploring the same sectors.

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I don't think they can ever turn this game into a true exploration game... Why? Because they don't want to.

Excatly this. They are satisfied with 1 1/2 Factions and the missions they have. All they want is our money with C-Store grab actions and overpriced interior sets :mad:.

If Cryptic/PW wanted to make much more content, PVE and PvP then they would already have.

[Archived Post]

[...]
And for any exploration to be meaningful, every system explored would have to become part of known space. [...]

Yes, of course. Each place a player surveys (that is, triggers to be randomly created by visiting it first, boldly going where no one has gone before) would be part of the game world. Technologically, that is no problem.

It's not absolutely required to make this game good. But it would be cool, and should not be that much work, I guess. (Devs correct me if I'm wrong, please).

[Archived Post]

Yes, of course. Each place a player surveys (that is, triggers to be randomly created by visiting it first, boldly going where no one has gone before) would be part of the game world. Technologically, that is no problem.

It's not absolutely required to make this game good. But it would be cool, and should not be that much work, I guess. (Devs correct me if I'm wrong, please).

I think you are seriously underestimating the rate at which MMO players can explore, especially in an environment where there is zero risk of permanent loss and zero risk of losing any in game war due to people being off exploring instead of running STF's.

Also new worlds would not likely be different from the existing 'explore' missions, so other than bragging rights on getting to any given system first, not really sure what would be gained.

[Archived Post]

Excatly this. They are satisfied with 1 1/2 Factions and the missions they have. All they want is our money with C-Store grab actions and overpriced interior sets :mad:.

If Cryptic/PW wanted to make much more content, PVE and PvP then they would already have.

"They". Hm. Who is "they"? The developers? Certainly not. They want to produce good entertainment, and they do when their upper ranks let them.Whether they are let, of course, depends on available resources, which is where the money comes in.

Which is why I personally think that random exploration and certain PvP elements (like more PvEvP warzones) have a good chance to be done some time in the future: The "entertainment value per programming effort " ratio is extremely good, so the productivity of that activity would be marvelous. And increasing productivty is exactly what all good managers want to do.

[Archived Post]

As it is now, the devs need weeks to make content which everyone has played through in 30 - 60 minutes. If they would make exploration content, they would add a new subset of missions/systems to a pool of systems which need to be reached and explored. If you look at the OP you will see, that this will take a very long time in regard of fuel, station building etc...So while they have a week to 30-60 minutes ratio now in regard of content they would have a better ratio with exploration content as it would take days to find the new system, days to explore it and finally do it. And if one has found it, maybe they report it in the forums and all the other players would go "hunt" the new systems....

[Archived Post]

Why would it take days to find a new system unless it literally took days to fly there? And who is going to play out days of flying through boring explored space just on the chance of finding a new system?

And there still would only be a couple hours of new content tops. Where they place it has nothing to do with the extent of content once there.

[Archived Post]

I don't think they can ever turn this game into a true exploration game... Why? Because they don't want to.

If they would treat STO like a live television program, with the need for a regular release of content rather than spending months on epic featured episodes each trying to top the previous one in epicness and then going months with NOTHING but C-store fluff or lottery boxes that you need to buy a key from the C-store to unlock, then whether or not they add a true exploration aspect to the game will be a moot point.

But perfect World is too cheap to go that route. They want a cash cow they can milk over and over and over. We've been told not to realistically expect more than two featured episode series this year. The last part of the first one comes out this coming Saturday. And unless they have been pouring every single resource they have into stand-alone mission content, or into some sort of new gameplay mechanic that will provide endless gameplay options, then we will get another months-long content drought except for fluff they expect us to pay money to buy CPs for.

[Archived Post]

If they would treat STO like a live television program, with the need for a regular release of content rather than spending months on epic featured episodes each trying to top the previous one in epicness and then going months with NOTHING but C-store fluff or lottery boxes that you need to buy a key from the C-store to unlock, then whether or not they add a true exploration aspect to the game will be a moot point.

But perfect World is too cheap to go that route. They want a cash cow they can milk over and over and over. We've been told not to realistically expect more than two featured episode series this year. The last part of the first one comes out this coming Saturday. And unless they have been pouring every single resource they have into stand-alone mission content, or into some sort of new gameplay mechanic that will provide endless gameplay options, then we will get another months-long content drought except for fluff they expect us to pay money to buy CPs for.
Don't forget that they are planning to "remaster" old missions (which means they are going to polish some old missions, instead of making new ones), which will again take countless hours of developers time... :mad:

Live long and prosper.

[Archived Post]

Don't forget that they are planning to "remaster" old missions (which means they are going to polish some old missions, instead of making new ones), which will again take countless hours of developers time... :mad:

Live long and prosper.

This, too...

If they are going to spend development resources, they need to spend them on forward-going content.

But hey... I guess if Hollywood can get away with remake after remake, and if Star Trek's last two major projects (Enterprise and JJ-Trek) have focused on going backward, and the fact that no MMO developer has the balls to try to be innovative, what can we really expect?

[Archived Post]

This, too...

If they are going to spend development resources, they need to spend them on forward-going content.

But hey... I guess if Hollywood can get away with remake after remake, and if Star Trek's last two major projects (Enterprise and JJ-Trek) have focused on going backward, and the fact that no MMO developer has the balls to try to be innovative, what can we really expect?

You do realize 'innovative' is going to be limited to their licencing agreement...

[Archived Post]

This, too...

If they are going to spend development resources, they need to spend them on forward-going content.

But hey... I guess if Hollywood can get away with remake after remake, and if Star Trek's last two major projects (Enterprise and JJ-Trek) have focused on going backward, and the fact that no MMO developer has the balls to try to be innovative, what can we really expect?
What about Star Trek: the stone age
Imagine the possibilities, no need for Sector space, no Starships, just spears, stone weapons, some furs instead of uniforms and cutting edge technology: torches instead of Borg equipment. :D


Seriously, i think they are just doing old stuff new because either they don't have good and innovative writers that come up with new ideas, or they just don't have the guts to make stuff that is true to star trek without relying to TOS.
I never understood the urge to redo their own missions. I mean STO needs desperatly more content, not old content just modernized.

Nowadays everthing has to be grim, dark, depressing, hectic and filled with unappealing characters.
STO just goes with the tide, there is war everywhere. Starfleet personell have the option to kill (!) rioting prisoners in a Federation facility.... (i don't know but this is not Star Trek as i remember.)
If i want to play a game that is set in such a universe i can play Mass Effect or something like that (which is much more professional done, btw).


For me Star trek (or a game about Star Trek) should be different. Most importantly it should be positive and tolerant, showing us a future we WANT to have.


The devs should be bold enough to make a difference, space exploration could be a step to a more peaceful and positive aspect of the game.

Just look at space exploration as we have it now, 80% (estimated) of those missions are Space/Ground combat missions.
The worst thing about them is that some of them don't even make sense, or why should i kill 20-30 other people just to scan an ancient stone statue that now one really cares about and risk a interstellar war?
There is not morality or consequence at all.

There should be much more non combat missions (the devs should watch some TNG episodes, to get an idea).


Live long and prosper.

[Archived Post]

Why would it take days to find a new system unless it literally took days to fly there? And who is going to play out days of flying through boring explored space just on the chance of finding a new system?

And there still would only be a couple hours of new content tops. Where they place it has nothing to do with the extent of content once there.

Because you would not know, where the new content is located. There would be also "empty" new systems which you had to scan by your doffs, and maybe you even beam down but find nothing, so this is no content which needs to be done - just a row in the database. But maybe one of ten are populated and needs to be done by Cryptic so they work input would pay out in more content for us.

[Archived Post]

Exploration was supposed to be included in the game thanks to the Genesis system (ah ah, didn't hear about that since .... ??? S2 ?).

As for me, I don't really care how they do it at this point : yeah sure, procedural stuff would be great but it seems that it would require too much work.

At the very least, they should try to stick with what they wanted to to at first : you find a system semi randomly generated, if you like it you can save the coordinates and send your friends there. Make the exploration space a little less silly (floating anomalies everywhere is ridiculous) and improve the exploration missions : more aliens, more contacts, less dumb pew pew, more minigames, anything but the pewpew - blinking hunts we have now.

This is the very least.

If they can do more, and do something like the OP suggests, I'm all for it. But do something.

[Archived Post]

Because you would not know, where the new content is located. There would be also "empty" new systems which you had to scan by your doffs, and maybe you even beam down but find nothing, so this is no content which needs to be done - just a row in the database. But maybe one of ten are populated and needs to be done by Cryptic so they work input would pay out in more content for us.

You might not know where it is per se, but you would know where to look. How hard do you figure systematic sector sweeps are? How long would such scan take? Remember life signs can be detected from orbit even in TOS, let alone TNG or later.

Scanning for minerals would likely not take longer than scanning an anomaly either. Why should it? Actually mining or colonizing would take longer but that would be for other branches of star fleet. Unless you are envisioning this turning into a giant strategic RTS... but that would become problematic quick.

[Archived Post]

You might not know where it is per se, but you would know where to look. How hard do you figure systematic sector sweeps are? How long would such scan take? Remember life signs can be detected from orbit even in TOS, let alone TNG or later.

Scanning for minerals would likely not take longer than scanning an anomaly either. Why should it? Actually mining or colonizing would take longer but that would be for other branches of star fleet. Unless you are envisioning this turning into a giant strategic RTS... but that would become problematic quick.

I'am quite sure Heretic would make some very creative assignments which needed to be done before you can move in "your" new sector...like measuring of the gravimetric grid or something like that...

If the new sector is in range of a star ship maybe you need 5min to travel to a new sector, 2h to do all assigments and 10 mins to explore the surface of the new planet for new life forms...if you assume, that there are 9 empty system for one populated one you get a time per one new system-content of about 24h Content to play...

If the new sector is not in range of a star ship and there needs to be build a new refill-station with your fleet it would last days until you discover the new sector...

[Archived Post]

Exploration was supposed to be included in the game thanks to the Genesis system (ah ah, didn't hear about that since .... ??? S2 ?).

As for me, I don't really care how they do it at this point : yeah sure, procedural stuff would be great but it seems that it would require too much work.

At the very least, they should try to stick with what they wanted to to at first : you find a system semi randomly generated, if you like it you can save the coordinates and send your friends there. Make the exploration space a little less silly (floating anomalies everywhere is ridiculous) and improve the exploration missions : more aliens, more contacts, less dumb pew pew, more minigames, anything but the pewpew - blinking hunts we have now.

This is the very least.

If they can do more, and do something like the OP suggests, I'm all for it. But do something.
100% agree!
I would be happy if we could get at least SOMETHING related to exploration that makes at least some sense. I am tired of brainless "kill this go there and kill that" - missions.
Devs, this is a Star Trek game i want to explore space and alien planets, not constantly shooting stuff!


I'am quite sure Heretic would make some very creative assignments which needed to be done before you can move in "your" new sector...like measuring of the gravimetric grid or something like that...

If the new sector is in range of a star ship maybe you need 5min to travel to a new sector, 2h to do all assigments and 10 mins to explore the surface of the new planet for new life forms...if you assume, that there are 9 empty system for one populated one you get a time per one new system-content of about 24h Content to play...

If the new sector is not in range of a star ship and there needs to be build a new refill-station with your fleet it would last days until you discover the new sector...
This sounds just as i would imagine a really cool Star Trek game!
Just speaking for myself but i would - L O V E - if STO would give us the chance to do something like that on a regular basis.

Building up a Colony or Starbase for ourselves would be extremely cool, :cool:


Live long and prosper.

[Archived Post]

I like the idea for exploreation. Pew Pew when it makes sense only.


100% agree!
I would be happy if we could get at least SOMETHING related to exploration that makes at least some sense. I am tired of brainless "kill this go there and kill that" - missions.
Devs, this is a Star Trek game i want to explore space and alien planets, not constantly shooting stuff!



This sounds just as i would imagine a really cool Star Trek game!
Just speaking for myself but i would - L O V E - if STO would give us the chance to do something like that on a regular basis.

Building up a Colony or Starbase for ourselves would be extremely cool, :cool:


Live long and prosper.

[Archived Post]

I'am quite sure Heretic would make some very creative assignments which needed to be done before you can move in "your" new sector...like measuring of the gravimetric grid or something like that...

If the new sector is in range of a star ship maybe you need 5min to travel to a new sector, 2h to do all assigments and 10 mins to explore the surface of the new planet for new life forms...if you assume, that there are 9 empty system for one populated one you get a time per one new system-content of about 24h Content to play...

If the new sector is not in range of a star ship and there needs to be build a new refill-station with your fleet it would last days until you discover the new sector...

Where is the 24h of new content coming from? 24h of new content total (i.e. same content for every player), or 24h of unique world each? And how do you arrange one new sector per person, rather than the symbolic multi-use sectors we have now? Or would one person or fleet with a lot of time be able to just burn through large portions of it, denying others?

Other than the implication that you might have the equivalent of one of the current exploration sectors to yourself, I am not sure how it would be that much more of an improvement over what the game has now...

[Archived Post]

Where is the 24h of new content coming from? 24h of new content total (i.e. same content for every player), or 24h of unique world each? And how do you arrange one new sector per person, rather than the symbolic multi-use sectors we have now? Or would one person or fleet with a lot of time be able to just burn through large portions of it, denying others?

Other than the implication that you might have the equivalent of one of the current exploration sectors to yourself, I am not sure how it would be that much more of an improvement over what the game has now...

You read the post you are quoting, do you? But you are right in regard to fleets - if they are well organized they may find the new system faster then a single player, if they coordinate their exploration movement. But at the moment fleets don`t have much to do - so why not? Their advancement won`t effect the game experience of an other player because his map still remains closed...until he discoveres everything.

You also should not compare an exploration sector block as it is now, with one exploration quadrant i suggested. There are about 30 sector blocks atm. If we assume, that there is always one sector with populated planets and nine empty ones, we would need 3 "content systems" atm. If they only would take all those bad exploration missions we had atm and mixed them up with empty sector blocks and make us discover them - I'm quite sure there would be about 200 sector blocks! If you assume, the range of the best starship would be 10 sector blocks fleets would need to build 19 star bases to reach the deepest sector block.

[Archived Post]

You read the post you are quoting, do you? But you are right in regard to fleets - if they are well organized they may find the new system faster then a single player, if they coordinate their exploration movement. But at the moment fleets don`t have much to do - so why not? Their advancement won`t effect the game experience of an other player because his map still remains closed...until he discoveres everything.

You also should not compare an exploration sector block as it is now, with one exploration quadrant i suggested. There are about 30 sector blocks atm. If we assume, that there is always one sector with populated planets and nine empty ones, we would need 3 "content systems" atm. If they only would take all those bad exploration missions we had atm and mixed them up with empty sector blocks and make us discover them - I'm quite sure there would be about 200 hundreds sector blocks! This would give them time to make some good new "content systems" and expand the exploration quadrant further.

Umm, you are suggesting expanding the game universe approximately 7 fold, presumably making the writers come up with new races to fill in the space (since if any existing empires are in there, the space is already 'explored'), whether or not their license allows for that....

You didn't really address whether sectors would be unique or duplicates. 3 content systems is not going to satisfy people's desire to explore, not even if that is 3 per person.

And if this is about 26 hours of play, even if everyone played only one hour per day (which is likely on the low side), they would need to expand the map again in a month.

[Archived Post]

You do realize 'innovative' is going to be limited to their licencing agreement...

I was referring to the way the Entertainment industry in general and the game development industry specifically has shifted. It used to be that game development studios, before being backed financially by big corporations who get their money from investment capitolists, managed to innovate pretty darned good. Then the corporate suits saw how much money was being made and latched on. Since that time, there has been very little in the way of innovation in the game dev industry. Now that they can really AFFORD to do almost anything in terms of new possibilities, they won't for fear of it not panning out.

The old saying goes, "if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose."

When you couple that with another old saying. "Nothing ventured is nothing gained," you have what motivated the game development pioneers to innovate.

An MMO is a gamble every time one is undertaken. Origin Systems, who was responsible for Ultima Online, did not have the massive backing of Electronic Arts when UO was first begun. They had built themselves up over the course of time with many successful non-MMO titles. Something like UO was a pipe dream, but it was proven. What the servers and end-user machines were capable of back then was nothing compared to what they can handle now. And yet back then, the first commercially promoted MMO allowed its players to experience freedom of exploration, discovery, and personal identity in the gameworld that no MMO that has been developed since World of ******** came on the scene even pretends to want to allow.

Why? Because since WoW came out, the corporate decision makers have decided that just because WoW successfully reached mass appeal (due more to its low system requirements that even a low-end machine can run acceptabley, and the ease by which it can be obtained through the buddy trial keys that players are encouraged to give to their friends along with loaning the installation discs to them) that that was the model to follow that would guarantee success. And yet every single WoW clone to come out has been an abismal failure.

There was only one real attempt at capturing the success of Ultima Online by taking its design model to the next level: Star Wars Galaxies. Many would say that game was a failure. And it was. It failed because from the onset, the suits making decisions about what to do with it were contrary to what needed to be done. They were close to the solution, but never capitolized on it. Sandbox character progression which allowed mixing and matching of skills and abilities to the preference of the player was an awesome thing. Trouble is, once you get the skillset you wanted, there wasn't much to do with it, and there were a lot of bugs that rendered many combat skills essentially useless.

When the first rage-quit threads started showing up on the SWG forums, the common complaint was about bugs not being fixed and content not being added. At the same time, those who played SWG's themepark content asked for more. This content was not raid-level ultra-hard content unless you had a group of 20 going through it. It was content with progressive missions through a cast of NPC characters that put the player in the midst of a story.

People BEGGED SOE to deliver more of that sort of content. But it did not come. Instead, they insisted on reinventing the game twice within six months, turned the whole game into a WoW clone in space and experienced the biggest decrease in subscribers any MMO had ever experienced. And it's gone today.

What does that have to do with STO?

Nothing and everything.

The decision makers behind the scenes are no more motivated to make this game reach for its full potential than those who pulled the strings for SWG. In fact, they have less motivation. As long as the lemmings in this community continue to throw money at the fluff items and keys to lottery boxes which just contain more fluff items, the game itself will not grow. Featured Episodes series that run for five episodes but take four to five months at best to be released are not the answer. They are welcomed and even awesome, but they are band-aid fixes to an arterial wound.

Perfect World has the money to hire more than enough programmers for Cryptic to fully staff the STO forward-going development process. They need to stop prioritizing the development of cash cow fluff and start developing real content that the players can engage in. What good is a new ship or uniform if there are no missions to fly or wear them in? They can still produce that stuff. Even continue with the lottery boxes. But they need solid content to play through. And they can show off their fluff items within the content. New ships that never showed up in use by the game until then. And on ground missions, seeing crews in uniforms that had never been seen before. Then those ships or uniforms show up on the C-store a few weeks later. Put a rare a full pack which includes varriants that cannot be obtained as a direct C-store purchase in a lottery box. Release a foundry resource pack that includes everything found in the new missions from empty interior/ground zones, space maps, ships, uniforms, new functions for authors to use. Release relevant DOFF packs that relate to the content.

One of the oldest sayings, especially relating to business, "It takes money to make money" is something that Perfect World needs to take to heart. By not really doing anything other than encouraging cash cow mechanics, they are actually minimixing potential gains. The game itself feels dead. If it were to feel alive then it will draw more people in. Many of them will feed the cash cow.

STO should be a fully supported game with a virtual item store and lottery box system attached. What it currently is is a Virtual Item store and a lottery box system with a barely supported game attached. New feature series every few months may amaze the regulars for a time. But what can and will make STO truly shine and even possibly reach its full potential is if the decision makers make decisions that will lead the development team to producing content and mechanics that engage the players every day.

They are counting on CPoint sales to carry them. They need to do things that make people want to subscribe. Add systems that are introduced for free, with deeper levels of depth that require a significant and regular expenditure of refined dilithium to gain and maintain access to... Unless you subscribe in which case the expenditure is a one-time thing.

They have said that they don't want to gate content with money requirements. Well I say that content is exactly what they should be charging for. If they keep it fun and engaging, people will not mind paying for it. As it stands now, until they start taking the forward-going development of the GAME more seriously than the development of cash cow fluff, they will not see a single penny from me. But if they start releasing real content on a monthly basis, and they charge $20 worth in CP to unlock it as a Silver player, or have it auto unlock for anyone paying $15 per month as a subscriber, then it's a winner for everyone.

Okay... this post got way too long several paragraphs ago. so I will leave it here for now with this one statement:

Business is not as complicated as the suits on power trips and pulling the puppet strings make it out to be. If you provide a product people want to spend money on, they will spend money on it.

[Archived Post]

What about Star Trek: the stone age
Imagine the possibilities, no need for Sector space, no Starships, just spears, stone weapons, some furs instead of uniforms and cutting edge technology: torches instead of Borg equipment. :D

How bout a mission that throws the player and his crew back in time and they find themselves stuch in the stone age with only these thingd at their disposal... One of the most memorable TOS episodes stuck Spock and McCoy back in a planet's ice age, and Kirk in the dark ages for all intents and purposes. Any sort of story is possible in the Star Trek univers as long as you can explain how the protagonists come into it.

Seriously, i think they are just doing old stuff new because either they don't have good and innovative writers that come up with new ideas, or they just don't have the guts to make stuff that is true to star trek without relying to TOS.

I suspect it is both. The developers may be fans of Star Trek, but just because you are a fan doesn't mean you know how to WRITE Star Trek. Look at some of the stories produced by Foundry authors. Some of them are good and innovative while holding at least as true to Trek as the actual writers of the shows did. If Cryptic's current writing team cannot write good Trek stories, then they need to be fired and the foundry authors who have proven that they CAN should be hired.

But then why spend money on writers when you can put a new ship in a lottery box and just let us stupid customers throw money at it until we win. THAT is what STO is centered around now.

I never understood the urge to redo their own missions. I mean STO needs desperatly more content, not old content just modernized.

Agreed. It's cool and all, but when they first started doing it, it was done as sort of a side thing. Now it's become the focus of almost all of the non-cashcow material.

Nowadays everthing has to be grim, dark, depressing, hectic and filled with unappealing characters.
STO just goes with the tide, there is war everywhere. Starfleet personell have the option to kill (!) rioting prisoners in a Federation facility.... (i don't know but this is not Star Trek as i remember.)
If i want to play a game that is set in such a universe i can play Mass Effect or something like that (which is much more professional done, btw).

I like it that they gave us the choice. We have to remember that the KDF gets to play that mission too. It makes sense that they would be more likely to just kill the prisoners and not waste time beaming them back to their cells. Let them die in glorious battle!

For me Star trek (or a game about Star Trek) should be different. Most importantly it should be positive and tolerant, showing us a future we WANT to have.

Well, when we look at the future that the TOS showed us, we saw one where we deal with the same negative social issues we face in the present, only we see aliens perpeuating it with humanity having risen above it. In TNG they showed us rainbows and kittens where for the most part talking got them out of the sticky situations that Wesley Crusher's brain couldn't.

In DS9 and VOY, we get back to Starfleet having to solve problems with action rather than sitting in a nice comfortable easy chair with a cuppa tea. Some of the actions taken were dirty, but the circumstances didn't really present the option for clean solutions. The way Quark described federation ground troops being dangerous and barbaric and that if you "take away the creature comforts humans can become as violent as any Klingon."

Earth may have gotten past its internal wars and strife. And humanity may have grown wise and peaceful. But when faced with real war again, with a clear and present danger, the kittens and rainbows go away and hard choices with ugly consequences take their place.

Now I will admit that Cryptic is being a bit stupid with all these enemies all at once. It's become extremely convoluted. Like a Star Trek TV show, they need to latch on to a central premise and stick with it. Either the Federation is at war with the Klingon Empire or it is not. Either the Borg are the clear and present threat to the Alpha Quadrant, or they are not.

Their central plotline should be about what is happening to the known galaxy as a whole and let us deal with it. Let our gameplay be more open-ended. They can still tell specific stories through missions, but the backdrop would be more specific and less generalized.

The devs should be bold enough to make a difference, space exploration could be a step to a more peaceful and positive aspect of the game.

Or it could also be a step into a bigger and more angry antbed than the one we're already standing in. Exploration itself is a noble and peaceful endeavor. But somethimes what is discovered isn't pretty. But i agree. I want exploration to be a viable gameplay mechanic than it is. With meaning.

Just look at space exploration as we have it now, 80% (estimated) of those missions are Space/Ground combat missions.

True...

The worst thing about them is that some of them don't even make sense, or why should i kill 20-30 other people just to scan an ancient stone statue that now one really cares about and risk a interstellar war? There is not morality or consequence at all.

Again, True and I agree. Now if those enemies were to at least hail us and explain that they will not tolerate us violating their territory and give us the option of negotiating... possibly agreeing to provide them with some sort of service in exchange for allowing us to beam down and do research. Sort of like combining an aid the planet scenario with a ground mechanic. Then if while we are doing research, the enemy beams in and starts attacking us, and we are forced to defend ourselves, and we don't KILL them but stun them, then the action can still be just as intense... Klingons can be given the same options, but more often than not, Klingons would beam down and try to do what they want with little or no negotiation. But having the option would be good.

There should be much more non combat missions (the devs should watch some TNG episodes, to get an idea).

Like I said, TNG presented fr more unlikely scenarios for clean-cut solutions. Maybe Picard was fortunate to encounter enlightened cultures that he can talk his way out of problems with. Whether you like it or not, TOS established what defines Star Trek. Kirk was not afraid to use his fists. He talked his way out of some situations, but as is the case in the real world, sometimes no amount of talking will solve anything. You either walk away and let the opponent get the upper hand, or you plant your feet firmly and stand ready to fight for what you believe.

I was glad to see Star Trek return to that mindset with DS9, VOY and ENT. You are free to disagree with me. But tiptoeing through the tulips just doesn't have the mass apeal as a solid conflict. We should at least be able to choose diplomatic dialogue when facing enemies that will earn us diplomacy points, even if the plot gives us no choice but to fight our way through. Maybe if we complete a combat mission without first attempting diplomacy, we lose diplomacy points.

Live long and prosper.

You too.

[Archived Post]

There should be much more non combat missions (the devs should watch some TNG episodes, to get an idea)
You mean like "Of Bajor", which has been pilloried here in the forums for having very little combat and being mostly running around, talking to people, and clicking on things?

I agree with you, for what it's worth, but it seems most of the playerbase has been conditioned to/is only interested in PEW PEW and don't like having their time "wasted" with "filler" like the above.

[Archived Post]

I was referring to the way the Entertainment industry in general and the game development industry specifically has shifted. It used to be that game development studios, before being backed financially by big corporations who get their money from investment capitolists, managed to innovate pretty darned good. Then the corporate suits saw how much money was being made and latched on. Since that time, there has been very little in the way of innovation in the game dev industry. Now that they can really AFFORD to do almost anything in terms of new possibilities, they won't for fear of it not panning out.

The old saying goes, "if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose."

When you couple that with another old saying. "Nothing ventured is nothing gained," you have what motivated the game development pioneers to innovate.

Much snipped (particularly material that should really be a rant on the SoE boards).

You do realize good writing is easier said than done, right?

There is another adage to include with your old sayings: "There are no truly original stories." If innovation is as easy as you claim, why aren't you a best selling author and/or game publisher? It is easy to say a company can 'afford' to do almost anything when it isn't your money at risk.

While I lament the amount of rehashed or otherwise poor material out there, lamentations don't bring talent where talent is limited.

And there is something to lose. There is whatever money this game is making now, plus whatever they spend on whatever they try. The suggestion I was critical of would radically expand the game universe (and thus the resources it takes to maintain) without adding more than a month's worth of new content. That doesn't sound practical at all, no matter how innovative it sounds.

[Archived Post]

You mean like "Of Bajor", which has been pilloried here in the forums for having very little combat and being mostly running around, talking to people, and clicking on things?

I agree with you, for what it's worth, but it seems most of the playerbase has been conditioned to/is only interested in PEW PEW and don't like having their time "wasted" with "filler" like the above.

I think it was the nature of the missions themselves - some were pretty boring, and it was a LOT of running around. As opposed to the Facility, which started out very much the same, but with a more directional aspect, and in a VERY entertaining environment, and missions/directives that were more interesting.

[COLOR="SandyBrown"]Starfleet personell have the option to kill (!) rioting prisoners in a Federation facility....

I got the impression that was more the computer's doing. It's basically saying "Prisoners need to be incapacitated in some way. If you knock them unconscious, please tag them for return to cells before they wake up again. If you kill them, don't worry about tagging them since I don't want dead prisoners in my cells." The computer just needs them inactive, it doesn't care how.

They need to stop prioritizing the development of cash cow fluff and start developing real content that the players can engage in. What good is a new ship or uniform if there are no missions to fly or wear them in? They can still produce that stuff. Even continue with the lottery boxes. But they need solid content to play through. And they can show off their fluff items within the content.

QFT

[Archived Post]

I suspect it is both. The developers may be fans of Star Trek, but just because you are a fan doesn't mean you know how to WRITE Star Trek. Look at some of the stories produced by Foundry authors. Some of them are good and innovative while holding at least as true to Trek as the actual writers of the shows did. If Cryptic's current writing team cannot write good Trek stories, then they need to be fired and the foundry authors who have proven that they CAN should be hired.

But then why spend money on writers when you can put a new ship in a lottery box and just let us stupid customers throw money at it until we win. THAT is what STO is centered around now.
I absolutely agree with you.

Agreed. It's cool and all, but when they first started doing it, it was done as sort of a side thing. Now it's become the focus of almost all of the non-cashcow material.
I just find this trend sad and totally undeserving for star trek...

I like it that they gave us the choice. We have to remember that the KDF gets to play that mission too. It makes sense that they would be more likely to just kill the prisoners and not waste time beaming them back to their cells. Let them die in glorious battle!
I was just talking about Federation/Starfleet personell (the player) killing rioting (some of them even unarmed) prisoners. Of course Klingons (and later Romulan and Cardassians for example) should have different options.

In DS9 and VOY, we get back to Starfleet having to solve problems with action rather than sitting in a nice comfortable easy chair with a cuppa tea. Some of the actions taken were dirty, but the circumstances didn't really present the option for clean solutions. The way Quark described federation ground troops being dangerous and barbaric and that if you "take away the creature comforts humans can become as violent as any Klingon."

Earth may have gotten past its internal wars and strife. And humanity may have grown wise and peaceful. But when faced with real war again, with a clear and present danger, the kittens and rainbows go away and hard choices with ugly consequences take their place.
Star Trek became just a "normal" Sci Fi universe, instead of being something that stands out of the mass.
Don't get me wrong i don't wan't to see hippies and flower childs in space but i always liked the idea of humanity being further evolved (in a philosophical way) than they are now.
Of course picard overdid this sometimes, when he didn't want to provoke already enraged and shooting aliens, by activating the enterprises weapon systems, lol.

Now I will admit that Cryptic is being a bit stupid with all these enemies all at once. It's become extremely convoluted. Like a Star Trek TV show, they need to latch on to a central premise and stick with it. Either the Federation is at war with the Klingon Empire or it is not. Either the Borg are the clear and present threat to the Alpha Quadrant, or they are not.

Their central plotline should be about what is happening to the known galaxy as a whole and let us deal with it. Let our gameplay be more open-ended. They can still tell specific stories through missions, but the backdrop would be more specific and less generalized.
Yeah i think that there are too many front lines in STO. The devs should have just started with one or two, and let us end or solve those conflict, and THEN come up with a new enemy, but not all at once.
I think that this is just another sign of the devs/Writer being somehow inexperienced or at least they have their very own view of things.


Or it could also be a step into a bigger and more angry antbed than the one we're already standing in. Exploration itself is a noble and peaceful endeavor. But somethimes what is discovered isn't pretty. But i agree. I want exploration to be a viable gameplay mechanic than it is. With meaning.
Sure sometimes there is the need to let the weapons speak (i am not a pacifist, lol), but at the moment it is just too much IMO.
I mean there is shooting and killing everywhere, and i mean everywhere, even at Starfleet Academy (academy event). Some may ask is there a safe place at all?
My point is, that it is just too much. We should get something different, maybe something like a colony/starbase management game mode, where the player needs to mine Minerals, defend (!) the base negotiate with aliens and so on. But most important, there should be consequences.
Small things like saving the sha mar (that freighter ship being attacked by the true way near the Zibal system) should have some consequences. Maybe it could unlock a DOFF mission chain, or something like that.

Again, True and I agree. Now if those enemies were to at least hail us and explain that they will not tolerate us violating their territory and give us the option of negotiating... possibly agreeing to provide them with some sort of service in exchange for allowing us to beam down and do research. Sort of like combining an aid the planet scenario with a ground mechanic. Then if while we are doing research, the enemy beams in and starts attacking us, and we are forced to defend ourselves, and we don't KILL them but stun them, then the action can still be just as intense... Klingons can be given the same options, but more often than not, Klingons would beam down and try to do what they want with little or no negotiation. But having the option would be good.
Yeah i had something like that in my mind too. Stuff like that would make the game become much more alive and meaningful IMHO.

Like I said, TNG presented fr more unlikely scenarios for clean-cut solutions. Maybe Picard was fortunate to encounter enlightened cultures that he can talk his way out of problems with. Whether you like it or not, TOS established what defines Star Trek. Kirk was not afraid to use his fists. He talked his way out of some situations, but as is the case in the real world, sometimes no amount of talking will solve anything. You either walk away and let the opponent get the upper hand, or you plant your feet firmly and stand ready to fight for what you believe.

I was glad to see Star Trek return to that mindset with DS9, VOY and ENT. You are free to disagree with me. But tiptoeing through the tulips just doesn't have the mass apeal as a solid conflict. We should at least be able to choose diplomatic dialogue when facing enemies that will earn us diplomacy points, even if the plot gives us no choice but to fight our way through. Maybe if we complete a combat mission without first attempting diplomacy, we lose diplomacy points.
TNG gave us the impression of a far more futuristic humanity (especially the first couple seasons) than DS9 and Voyager.
This doesn't mean that i don't like DS9, but i think it is just different.
I won't say something about kirk or voyager, this topic just annoys me too much, lol.

I just think that Star Trek was much more appealing when our heroes where preventing wars, not fighting them.


You mean like "Of Bajor", which has been pilloried here in the forums for having very little combat and being mostly running around, talking to people, and clicking on things?

I agree with you, for what it's worth, but it seems most of the playerbase has been conditioned to/is only interested in PEW PEW and don't like having their time "wasted" with "filler" like the above.
"Of Bajor" wasn't exactly what i had in mind. I found that mission just too longbreathed.
Peaceful Missions should include mystery solving and tension, sometimes fun, or even a bit comedy.
(do you know that old game Star Trek: the final unity?)
Of course there should be action missions, but violence should be justified, or be the last option (FED side of course).
But i know what you mean. I think that it is somehow difficult to make missions that include running around, reading stuff and solving puzzles, without makeing them either boring or annoying.
(i must confess that i found "of Bajor" rather annoying the 5th time i played it.)
I think the most important thing is to make those missions entertaining and give the player more freedom to solve puzzles (use violence, using commendation rank or solve the puzzle, something like that).
My point is that non combat missions don't have to be either boring or annoying, only when they are badly written.

Live long and prosper.

[Archived Post]

As long as the lemmings in this community continue to throw money at the fluff items and keys to lottery boxes which just contain more fluff items, the game itself will not grow. Featured Episodes series that run for five episodes but take four to five months at best to be released are not the answer. They are welcomed and even awesome, but they are band-aid fixes to an arterial wound.

Those lemmings you describe may be our rescue. If you believe, what has been told, Cryptic has gone this path to make an unprofitable game profitable. So, now it is - and Cryptic is at the crossroads.
They can go the dark path and make MORE MONEY. Maybe they need to - f.e. to develop Neverwinter Nights with our money. If that`s the true, then there is no perspectice for us and we should abandon ship.
They also can go the bright part and use the money, they are earning from those lemmings, to make us a real good Star Trek game, which they like too. I can not believe that all Cryptic devs have a heart of stone and don`t see that our hearts are bleeding...a Star trek game without exploration but that much PEWPEW is not much Trek.
So I think there is hope.

Also - they need to change their structure of content. If they stay with the Featured Episodes they need more content team to make more content...so this is our chance to get exploration content because it pays off more.

[shado6]

I think season 7 should be all about PVP.

I think season 7 should add the Romulans as a playable faction.

[gemack]

I think Exploration should incorporate both PvP and PvE for territory control.

:)

Agree 100%

[morgansmith]

I always thought that exploration should be tied in with the foundry mission creator. make one of the options in the foundry to make the mission become a random exploration mission. Then create a zone of sector space for exploration. when you happen on an unknown system the game picks from these player made foundry Explore missions at random. Foundry exploratory mission creators would need to keep in mind that the missions they create would need to follow the "unknown" area of game play and plan accordingly.

[thecosmic1]

I think people shouldn't zombie old threads. :)



EDIT: Closed for necroing an old thread. Remember, if a thread has been inactive for 30 days, you should not post to it. Feel free to create a new thread on the subject if you would like to discuss further :) ~BranFlakes