Since science ships are being shafted, again, give us a 7th weapon slot?

[Archived Post]

Since season 4, science ships have been getting weaker and weaker:


Gravity Well is uselessly weak. No matter how many consoles and skills you put into it you can't even hold a shuttle at half speed.

Tyken's Rift was nerfed into uselessness with a major nerf to its energy drain.

Confuse ailities now have a 30 second immunity.

Science console slots will now have to have multiple Field Generators to remain competitve, meaning further loss to science abilities.

Viral Matrix is uselessly weak.

Science team was nerfed to cleanse and small shield heal burst only.

The built in target subsytems 1 is useless with the introduction of insulators.

Science Fleet no longer boosts science powers since the new skill tree (for some reason)

Tachyon Beam is now useless with the introduction of stacking field generators and no way to buff Tachyon beam to compensate.

Charged Particle burst will not be as effective thanks to the stacking field generators as well.

Photonic Shockwave is not as effective since the introduction of Inertial Dampeners.


Now with the "accidental" stacking ability to field generators, and the inbound nerf to them, every other class will be filling their 2-3 science slots with field generators, and science ships will have to as well in order to remain competitive.

And on top of all of that, we get less weapons than every other ship class.

I would prefer to have these abilities useful again, but if that can't be done, then how about giving science ships another weapon slot? At least then we would be able to compete with the other two classes.

[Archived Post]

i agree, i have an science officer in a science ship, and experience that as well.

I do not feel I am adding "value" to my team or helping my team reach the end goal in STF.

[Archived Post]

I posted about this subject some time ago.

Adding weapon slot will not fix anything. It simply makes the science ships into light cruisers.

Copy/paste of that post:



A way to fix some post F2P borked Science abilities

Gravity Well

Pre-F2P the gravity well literally kept ships in its maw for almost the entire duration as its tractor effect was working.

Come F2P and the space revamp, the Graviton stat was borked beyond hope of recovery and Grav Well become a nearly pointless to use ability vs anything but the weakest targets (aka borg probes). It became useless vs. players.

Recently the graviton stat was changed to increase the size of the anomaly. An apparent attempt to give it the illusion that it was working... but this is not the case. The moment any ship flies a mere 100m out of the very center of the anomaly the damage it takes fall by 50%.


So, the gravity well's problem is NOT damage output. Particle Generator stat still works properly. At the center of the anomaly the damage stats for the grav well are delivered. The problem is then, that ships dont stay near the center for more than a tick or two.

How to make the gravity well work once again?

Simple: Add a very strong engine power drain effect to the anomaly's tractor effect.

Its a GRAVITY well so engines should be severely affected by it.

A permanent -90 drain to engine power as long as the current tractor-in effect grabs them will return the gravity well to its working status.

Players need only use emg power to engines or switch their power settings to feed more than 90 power to engines to break loose. Attack pattern omega nor polarize hull should break ships loose from the anomaly since its GRAVITY and the snare-resistant abilities of these effects should not counter it. Only engine power should.


Tyken's Rift

Tyken's shares the same problem Gravity Well does: Cant keep ships inside its range for any length of time.

Unlike the GWell, Tyken's fix is ridiculously easier:

1- Remove its tractor-in pull effect.
2- Extend the range that the 'tendrils' that suck power from ships to 5km.

Voila! Any ship within 5km of the rift gets power drained.


Tachyon Beam

Current issue: Very weak shield drain considering it requires a lot of expenditure of BO power slot and science ship slots/skill boxes (flow capacitors).

Solution: Tachyon beam should be changed to a strong shield-system debuff. Instead of reducing FROM the existing shield hitpoints, it should reduce the maximum capacity of hitpoints of the shield system for X amount of time.

For example, ship has 20 thousand shields per facing. Gets hit by Tachyon Beam 3. TB3 lowers the max cap by.. dunno, say 50% for 45 seconds. Target shields are instantly dropped to 10 thousand per shield facing for 45 seconds. After 45 seconds are up the ship will be down to 10k shield in all facings.


Viral Matrix

It currently works well but its effects have too short a duration and take too long to be inflicted on target. A ship is usually destroyed in less than a minute just by firing weapons at it so why bother tossing a viral matrix that takes 30 or so seconds to inflict its effects?

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

For example: Ship has power setting 100 wep/50shld/25engine/25 aux, runs at full speed and shield facings are all at full strength. It gets hit by viral matrix.

For the next 20 seconds... every 5 seconds the ship power settings will randomly change (25/100/25/50 ...5 seconds later 50-50-50-50, 5 seconds later change again,etc), its speed will randomly shift from full stop to full speed and everything in between every 5 secs and its shields will switch every 5 seconds to doing transfer shield power to left shield, to right shield, to rear shield, etc.

Both NPCs and players would be equally affected.


Scramble Sensors

It should do what it says: Scramble sensors. Two effects ...one for players and another for NPCs. Effect should last 10 seconds.

Players: The static-on-screen that we get in episode missions when entering those nebulas that have 'high interference' should pop up and player's targeting systems should lose lock every 2 seconds.

NPCs: NPCs should randomly re-target anything near them..friend or foe, and for 10 seconds fire upon it.

Single target ability.


Jam Sensors

Similar to scramble sensors but different in application. Jam sensors cuts the range in which a player or NPC can target anything down to 2km range for anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds (Jam 1 = 5, Jam 2=10, Jam 3=15)

Cone ability 90 degrees in front of ship. Affects all targets. Cooldown 1 minute.

[Archived Post]

I posted about this subject some time ago.
Adding weapon slot will not fix anything. It simply makes the science ships into light cruisers.


As I said in the op, I would prefer to have the abilites fixed into usefullness. The 7th weap slot would be a less desired alternative to creating some sort fo viability for science ships with all the nerfs to them in recent months.

[Archived Post]

I posted about this subject some time ago.

Adding weapon slot will not fix anything. It simply makes the science ships into light cruisers.

Copy/paste of that post:



A way to fix some post F2P borked Science abilities

Gravity Well

Pre-F2P the gravity well literally kept ships in its maw for almost the entire duration as its tractor effect was working.

Come F2P and the space revamp, the Graviton stat was borked beyond hope of recovery and Grav Well become a nearly pointless to use ability vs anything but the weakest targets (aka borg probes). It became useless vs. players.

Recently the graviton stat was changed to increase the size of the anomaly. An apparent attempt to give it the illusion that it was working... but this is not the case. The moment any ship flies a mere 100m out of the very center of the anomaly the damage it takes fall by 50%.


So, the gravity well's problem is NOT damage output. Particle Generator stat still works properly. At the center of the anomaly the damage stats for the grav well are delivered. The problem is then, that ships dont stay near the center for more than a tick or two.

How to make the gravity well work once again?

Simple: Add a very strong engine power drain effect to the anomaly's tractor effect.

Its a GRAVITY well so engines should be severely affected by it.

A permanent -90 drain to engine power as long as the current tractor-in effect grabs them will return the gravity well to its working status.

Players need only use emg power to engines or switch their power settings to feed more than 90 power to engines to break loose. Attack pattern omega nor polarize hull should break ships loose from the anomaly since its GRAVITY and the snare-resistant abilities of these effects should not counter it. Only engine power should.


Tyken's Rift

Tyken's shares the same problem Gravity Well does: Cant keep ships inside its range for any length of time.

Unlike the GWell, Tyken's fix is ridiculously easier:

1- Remove its tractor-in pull effect.
2- Extend the range that the 'tendrils' that suck power from ships to 5km.

Voila! Any ship within 5km of the rift gets power drained.


Tachyon Beam

Current issue: Very weak shield drain considering it requires a lot of expenditure of BO power slot and science ship slots/skill boxes (flow capacitors).

Solution: Tachyon beam should be changed to a strong shield-system debuff. Instead of reducing FROM the existing shield hitpoints, it should reduce the maximum capacity of hitpoints of the shield system for X amount of time.

For example, ship has 20 thousand shields per facing. Gets hit by Tachyon Beam 3. TB3 lowers the max cap by.. dunno, say 50% for 45 seconds. Target shields are instantly dropped to 10 thousand per shield facing for 45 seconds. After 45 seconds are up the ship will be down to 10k shield in all facings.


Viral Matrix

It currently works well but its effects have too short a duration and take too long to be inflicted on target. A ship is usually destroyed in less than a minute just by firing weapons at it so why bother tossing a viral matrix that takes 30 or so seconds to inflict its effects?

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

For example: Ship has power setting 100 wep/50shld/25engine/25 aux, runs at full speed and shield facings are all at full strength. It gets hit by viral matrix.

For the next 20 seconds... every 5 seconds the ship power settings will randomly change (25/100/25/50 ...5 seconds later 50-50-50-50, 5 seconds later change again,etc), its speed will randomly shift from full stop to full speed and everything in between every 5 secs and its shields will switch every 5 seconds to doing transfer shield power to left shield, to right shield, to rear shield, etc.

Both NPCs and players would be equally affected.


Scramble Sensors

It should do what it says: Scramble sensors. Two effects ...one for players and another for NPCs. Effect should last 10 seconds.

Players: The static-on-screen that we get in episode missions when entering those nebulas that have 'high interference' should pop up and player's targeting systems should lose lock every 2 seconds.

NPCs: NPCs should randomly re-target anything near them..friend or foe, and for 10 seconds fire upon it.

Single target ability.


Jam Sensors

Similar to scramble sensors but different in application. Jam sensors cuts the range in which a player or NPC can target anything down to 2km range for anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds (Jam 1 = 5, Jam 2=10, Jam 3=15)

Cone ability 90 degrees in front of ship. Affects all targets. Cooldown 1 minute.


I agree with all of this.

[Archived Post]

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies (http://forums.startrekonline.com/announcement.php?a=8). ~BranFlakes

[Archived Post]

I do great against PvE enemies with my sci ship.

Sounds like this is a PvP-centric argument. Sci-ships were a little overpowered in PvP previously (spamming certain abilities which kept an opponent disabled endlessly, etc) so the Devs did need to do something.

However, if the OP is going to ask for things to change, perhaps start with PvP balence issues instead of a "make my sci-ship the 'I win' button again" argument.

[Archived Post]

Once they fix innate resistances (from the skill tree) and the consoles that modify them I hope they'll make another careful pass at Science powers in general. For the longest time Science was too powerful, in large part because resistances weren't working. Resistance are still hit and miss in terms of what they work against but with the intent being to provide a full 75% resistance from the skill tree alone that's just too much. Something certainly needs to be done. This +35% Shield console issue as well as the +1 Oddy variant don't help the situation at all.

They have a lot to sort out and it certainly won't be done quickly but I hope they'll take the time necessary to make things work and then make adjustments from there. I'd rather not see us break more things in the short term while working on the appropriate long term fix.

[Archived Post]

I hope they'll make another careful pass at Science powers in general.

Like crafting, it seems the more cryptic fiddles with science, the worse it gets.

[Archived Post]

Now with the "accidental" stacking ability to field generators, and the inbound nerf to them, every other class will be filling their 2-3 science slots with field generators, and science ships will have to as well in order to remain competitive.
.



On the flip side of the arguement, with each generator doing less, the Science ship's native shield boost is larger by comparison. If an escort needs 2 generators to equal a science ship's base shields with 0 consoles, that's a bonus.

By that reasoning, comparitively speaking, I'd like them to bump up native science shields higher and decrease the generators even more so that science ships actually DO have the best shields to compensate properly for having the lousiest hulls and lowest number of weapon slots. Or maybe stay as-is for percentage boost, but give additional inherant sci resistance and regen.

[Archived Post]

Some of the above mentioned is a good start,
my idea was to give the ra/va sci ships target subsystems 2 instead of 1 to increase their power slightly making that skill once again useful, dont know how many times i go into elite stf tar shields and watch not a darn thing happen.
Also, the luna needs to get a +1 refit done to her removing the lt tac and ens tac and giving it a ltc tac to bring it inline with the other ships at that tier, curently sci vessels do not have a tac ship, we have 2 eng ships, the neb refit and the dkyr.
Also my thought was to bring a couple of the version 3s into the ltc sci slot, as is gw3 tr3 vm3 psw3 ss3 and a couple others are all only cm level...the ltc level has mostly 2s of said versions and useless 3s...sci team anyone?
Currently the other issue is that stfs are designed with one thing in mind...lots of caffeine directly injected into the veins...what i mean by this? if your not super fast jumping all over the place like some crazed crack fiend you dont belong. DPS is the only game atm, it broke science in pve endgame in a big way imo.
Another beef ive had for some time is the ship tier structering/deciding what gets what....why the prometheus has more hull than the luna is beyond me....luna is larger, now I know im an idiot in the structural design world but bigger usualy means more mass, mass means more hitpoint...
and before any escort people start freaking out about that statement, in no means do i intend to see escorts suddenly become unviable...but they are glass cannons...wizards wearing robes are still only wearing robes....clerics for the most part are heavy armor plated mace wielding holy than thou people...and thats what science was suppose to be in this game for...

anyway..lets keep the feedback going :D

[Archived Post]

To folks saying it's pvp vs. pve... no, I have had a lot of troubles with some of these issues in STFs.

If I bring my science ship, I MIGHT be helpful. But you know what's handier than holding 2-3 probes still in a gravity well? Blowing them up fast.

My science captain frankly feels much better off flying anything BUT a science ship, which annoys me greatly.

I spent $18 on the Varanus. I'd like to get something for it.

[Archived Post]

Maybe a little bit off topic.... But I'd like to see some more variety in overall Function of classes (Sci/Eng/Tac) in a non combat sense. OK that sounds confusing even to me :p It shouldn't always revolve around combat. eg. Science ships could get bonuses in the Scanning minigame ( a bad example but you get the idea).

[Archived Post]

Maybe a little bit off topic.... But I'd like to see some more variety in overall Function of classes (Sci/Eng/Tac) in a non combat sense. OK that sounds confusing even to me :p It shouldn't always revolve around combat. eg. Science ships could get bonuses in the Scanning minigame ( a bad example but you get the idea).

That is off topic...but fascinating...ie like sci vessels get more data samples per scan, cruisers can hold 5 more doff mission slots due to crew size, tac vessels get more weapon specific doff missions (creation ie dual heavy cannon doff mission)

[Archived Post]

Doff missions could vary by ship type (expanding on Sosuhno's last idea)... Science ships with more Diplomacy and Medicine, for example.

[Archived Post]

Doff missions could vary by ship type (expanding on Sosuhno's last idea)... Science ships with more Diplomacy and Medicine, for example.

YAY were so off topic now, but not really..its still ship related...who wants WAFFLES :D

we should see about this branching off into a doff thread in the doff section and a ship thread in the ship section..but meh whats the point. Were all here at this party!

Back to sci vessels,
in their current form i can do some cc or some heal, but healing is broken for the simple fact by the time i even bother to toss down sciteam3 on a ship its most likely been one shotted anyway, so i never build my ship anymore as a support vessel, i try to cram as much cc damage stuff into as i can...and thats actually kinda boring when you cant be as freestyle as you can on the ground.

[Archived Post]

i can think of ONE new sci ability useful for STF's - reset time counter 1-3 minutes backwards :D

[Archived Post]

Gravity Well

Pre-F2P the gravity well literally kept ships in its maw for almost the entire duration as its tractor effect was working.

Come F2P and the space revamp, the Graviton stat was borked beyond hope of recovery and Grav Well become a nearly pointless to use ability vs anything but the weakest targets (aka borg probes). It became useless vs. players.

Recently the graviton stat was changed to increase the size of the anomaly. An apparent attempt to give it the illusion that it was working... but this is not the case. The moment any ship flies a mere 100m out of the very center of the anomaly the damage it takes fall by 50%.


So, the gravity well's problem is NOT damage output. Particle Generator stat still works properly. At the center of the anomaly the damage stats for the grav well are delivered. The problem is then, that ships dont stay near the center for more than a tick or two.

How to make the gravity well work once again?

Simple: Add a very strong engine power drain effect to the anomaly's tractor effect.

Its a GRAVITY well so engines should be severely affected by it.

A permanent -90 drain to engine power as long as the current tractor-in effect grabs them will return the gravity well to its working status.

Players need only use emg power to engines or switch their power settings to feed more than 90 power to engines to break loose. Attack pattern omega nor polarize hull should break ships loose from the anomaly since its GRAVITY and the snare-resistant abilities of these effects should not counter it. Only engine power should.


Tyken's Rift

Tyken's shares the same problem Gravity Well does: Cant keep ships inside its range for any length of time.

Unlike the GWell, Tyken's fix is ridiculously easier:

1- Remove its tractor-in pull effect.
2- Extend the range that the 'tendrils' that suck power from ships to 5km.

Voila! Any ship within 5km of the rift gets power drained.


Tachyon Beam

Current issue: Very weak shield drain considering it requires a lot of expenditure of BO power slot and science ship slots/skill boxes (flow capacitors).

Solution: Tachyon beam should be changed to a strong shield-system debuff. Instead of reducing FROM the existing shield hitpoints, it should reduce the maximum capacity of hitpoints of the shield system for X amount of time.

For example, ship has 20 thousand shields per facing. Gets hit by Tachyon Beam 3. TB3 lowers the max cap by.. dunno, say 50% for 45 seconds. Target shields are instantly dropped to 10 thousand per shield facing for 45 seconds. After 45 seconds are up the ship will be down to 10k shield in all facings.


Viral Matrix

It currently works well but its effects have too short a duration and take too long to be inflicted on target. A ship is usually destroyed in less than a minute just by firing weapons at it so why bother tossing a viral matrix that takes 30 or so seconds to inflict its effects?

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

For example: Ship has power setting 100 wep/50shld/25engine/25 aux, runs at full speed and shield facings are all at full strength. It gets hit by viral matrix.

For the next 20 seconds... every 5 seconds the ship power settings will randomly change (25/100/25/50 ...5 seconds later 50-50-50-50, 5 seconds later change again,etc), its speed will randomly shift from full stop to full speed and everything in between every 5 secs and its shields will switch every 5 seconds to doing transfer shield power to left shield, to right shield, to rear shield, etc.

Both NPCs and players would be equally affected.


Scramble Sensors

It should do what it says: Scramble sensors. Two effects ...one for players and another for NPCs. Effect should last 10 seconds.

Players: The static-on-screen that we get in episode missions when entering those nebulas that have 'high interference' should pop up and player's targeting systems should lose lock every 2 seconds.

NPCs: NPCs should randomly re-target anything near them..friend or foe, and for 10 seconds fire upon it.

Single target ability.


Jam Sensors

Similar to scramble sensors but different in application. Jam sensors cuts the range in which a player or NPC can target anything down to 2km range for anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds (Jam 1 = 5, Jam 2=10, Jam 3=15)

Cone ability 90 degrees in front of ship. Affects all targets. Cooldown 1 minute.

The Gravity Well Fix looks decent but it does bring into question: Why have Graviton Emitters then? Does this effect now full under Flow Capacitors as well? Also I do notice that all NPC ships are drastically effected by the Repel effect of GW but only after a few moments of the effect as if it grows in power or something. Player ships on the other hand are a lot more immune to it.


Tyken's does not Pull ships to it at all. It has NO tractor effect whatsoever. The problem with Tykens is that you have MACO shields and Plasmotic Leach Consoles and darn near EVERYTHING grants Insulator bonuses. So in the end the drain from Tyken's has been made irrelevant. Before you could shut someone down for a few moments but these days it is nearly impossible to get that effect out of Tyken's even if you pre-snare them like I always used to. It just needs to be flat-out more powerful.


As for Tachyon Beam... Here is a better idea... Give us the BORG version. It seems to have no trouble ripping apart shields from full to zip in one shot.


The Viral Matrix thing sounds pretty evil but acceptable. Either that or lengthen the duration of the effects or add to it that it randomly trips cooldowns from your BOFF's making it a bit like the Borg Boarding Party.


I liiiike Scramble Sensors the way you put it. Very nice indeed.

I also very much like your version of Jam Sensors.

[Archived Post]

Like crafting, it seems the more cryptic fiddles with science, the worse it gets.
Nothing can be as bad as the first incarnation of crafting.

I like my science ship. I really do. But my abilities are just... uesless most of the time. In PvE where enemies don't have innate resistance built into them (I believe), it takes my gravity well about 7 seconds to FINALLY pull stuff in, and by the time they reach the center and start taking damage, it fades. It doesn't even work in PvP.

Tachyon Beam is still kinda useful in PvE, but useless in PvP. The duty officer turn rate debuff doesn't even seem to work in either setting. I have to throw a tractor beam into the mix if I want to stop a target from turning.

I don't even use Tyken's Rift in PvE or PvP anymore, I should probably take it off my science officer.

I understand that Science is a delicate beast, but there has to be some middle ground between overpowered and underpowered. Science when the game launched was massively overpowered, but that doesn't mean we have to be massively underpowered these days. Sometimes it feels like my only use to a team in PvP is Subnucleonic Beam and my healing abilities, and healing in space is a lot less fun than healing on the ground.

[Archived Post]

I like my science ship. I really do. But my abilities are just... uesless most of the time. In PvE where enemies don't have innate resistance built into them (I believe), it takes my gravity well about 7 seconds to FINALLY pull stuff in, and by the time they reach the center and start taking damage, it fades. It doesn't even work in PvP.

Tachyon Beam is still kinda useful in PvE, but useless in PvP. The duty officer turn rate debuff doesn't even seem to work in either setting. I have to throw a tractor beam into the mix if I want to stop a target from turning.

I don't even use Tyken's Rift in PvE or PvP anymore, I should probably take it off my science officer.

I understand that Science is a delicate beast, but there has to be some middle ground between overpowered and underpowered. Science when the game launched was massively overpowered, but that doesn't mean we have to be massively underpowered these days.

I feel the same way, I have spec'ed into every skill that is supposed to buff my science char's abilities, and equipped every console that I can to further buff these abilities. The result: still useless.

Gravity well is so weak that it wouldn't slow down a shuttle at 1/4 speed. Tykens was nerfed into uselessness quite long ago. (It used to have a nice energy drain) I don't even waste time with Tachyon Beam anymore since the shield drain is so minor that it isnt worth the boff ability slot.

[Archived Post]

Nothing can be as bad as the first incarnation of crafting.

I like my science ship. I really do. But my abilities are just... uesless most of the time. In PvE where enemies don't have innate resistance built into them (I believe), it takes my gravity well about 7 seconds to FINALLY pull stuff in, and by the time they reach the center and start taking damage, it fades. It doesn't even work in PvP.
.


Thats the problem you ''belive'' that all enemys are the same and is not, if one thing i learned of the game and i played all episodes in elite is that neither of the enemys you are facing behaves the same way and use the same powers they have diferent skills, you have to adapt your tactics to kill them and this is specially important in pvp.

This skills tree is designed to specialization lets say you can have a big amount of powers to use but you will lack in something because you can´t put points in all skills and maxed them, you can put all your points in science dependant skillls but you will lack maybe in torpedo, energy, shields or hull points.

THe question here is which is the role you like the more? science vessel that relays completly in science powers or better a mix of powers and phasers or maybe a science torpedo boat, just spec for the kind you like.

As a matter of fact i tried GW and it works nice with my points in the right place i can keep at bay all the spheres that cross the gateway once you destroy one transformer in infected, can i kill them all? no but i can kill one or 2 while at the same time im giving the oportunity to escorts of wipe them out because they are like sitting ducks.


In pvp i found GW quite annoying specially when there are around like 2 tyken´s rifts drining power plus being drined with energy siphon or any other drain ability wich makes me thing 2 before i go for that guy and im pretty sure that he´s speced for drain that means he have to have invested points in flow cap and the only counter i have are insulators so here we are again i guess specialization is key in this game, you want viral matrix working properlly just spec for that, you want GW working correctly just spec for that but you can´t have all powers at the same time , plus shield tanking plus do a lot of damage with phasers etc .

[Archived Post]

Gravity Well is ridiculously weak. But, don't take my word for it. Here is that the devs had to say on it:

I tracked down the anomaly between Gravity Well and Graviton Generators.

The short version: The magnitude of the -Repel applied by GravWell is too small to be noticably affected by the skill. For GW1, the -Repel mag scaled from -.5 to -.51

... yeah, it's that small.

We're not removing the (admittedly tiny) bonus that Graviton Generators gives you to the Repel strength of Gravity Well.


So here we have a dev explaining that the maximum hold (-repel) for GW1 is -.51. So, as a "fix" they increased the maximum radius of the hold from 3 km to up to 3.75 km. but did not increase the hold itself. It's still -.51 repel which is so tiny that it is useless. (My grav well III with full spec and consoles gives a tiny -.54 repel)

Weak.

[Archived Post]

... Are you freakin' kidding me??


I love 'we're not removing the tiny effect!' Well, great, how about ACTUALLY MAKING THE EFFECT MATTER?


Anyone know if Sensor Probes noticeably improves Viral Matrix, like it's supposed to?

(I figure if I'm going to be useless, I might as well be AMUSINGLY useless)

[Archived Post]

I do great against PvE enemies with my sci ship.

Sounds like this is a PvP-centric argument. Sci-ships were a little overpowered in PvP previously (spamming certain abilities which kept an opponent disabled endlessly, etc) so the Devs did need to do something.

However, if the OP is going to ask for things to change, perhaps start with PvP balence issues instead of a "make my sci-ship the 'I win' button again" argument.

I agree with this. Everything in this post has merit, but the issue around certain SCI powers is that there is a definite opportunity of exploits more so than most other abilities of the other careers. I am a SCI officer, and do not want, nor look forward to the return of the Uber SCI builds spamming hold and control abilities every 15 secs. Need I even remind you of the Gravity well + Photonic Shockwave + Tricobolt Torp debacle???

[Archived Post]

I posted about this subject some time ago.

Adding weapon slot will not fix anything. It simply makes the science ships into light cruisers.

Copy/paste of that post:



A way to fix some post F2P borked Science abilities

Gravity Well

Pre-F2P the gravity well literally kept ships in its maw for almost the entire duration as its tractor effect was working.

Come F2P and the space revamp, the Graviton stat was borked beyond hope of recovery and Grav Well become a nearly pointless to use ability vs anything but the weakest targets (aka borg probes). It became useless vs. players.

Recently the graviton stat was changed to increase the size of the anomaly. An apparent attempt to give it the illusion that it was working... but this is not the case. The moment any ship flies a mere 100m out of the very center of the anomaly the damage it takes fall by 50%.


So, the gravity well's problem is NOT damage output. Particle Generator stat still works properly. At the center of the anomaly the damage stats for the grav well are delivered. The problem is then, that ships dont stay near the center for more than a tick or two.

How to make the gravity well work once again?

Simple: Add a very strong engine power drain effect to the anomaly's tractor effect.

Its a GRAVITY well so engines should be severely affected by it.

A permanent -90 drain to engine power as long as the current tractor-in effect grabs them will return the gravity well to its working status.

Players need only use emg power to engines or switch their power settings to feed more than 90 power to engines to break loose. Attack pattern omega nor polarize hull should break ships loose from the anomaly since its GRAVITY and the snare-resistant abilities of these effects should not counter it. Only engine power should.


Tyken's Rift

Tyken's shares the same problem Gravity Well does: Cant keep ships inside its range for any length of time.

Unlike the GWell, Tyken's fix is ridiculously easier:

1- Remove its tractor-in pull effect.
2- Extend the range that the 'tendrils' that suck power from ships to 5km.

Voila! Any ship within 5km of the rift gets power drained.


Tachyon Beam

Current issue: Very weak shield drain considering it requires a lot of expenditure of BO power slot and science ship slots/skill boxes (flow capacitors).

Solution: Tachyon beam should be changed to a strong shield-system debuff. Instead of reducing FROM the existing shield hitpoints, it should reduce the maximum capacity of hitpoints of the shield system for X amount of time.

For example, ship has 20 thousand shields per facing. Gets hit by Tachyon Beam 3. TB3 lowers the max cap by.. dunno, say 50% for 45 seconds. Target shields are instantly dropped to 10 thousand per shield facing for 45 seconds. After 45 seconds are up the ship will be down to 10k shield in all facings.


Viral Matrix

It currently works well but its effects have too short a duration and take too long to be inflicted on target. A ship is usually destroyed in less than a minute just by firing weapons at it so why bother tossing a viral matrix that takes 30 or so seconds to inflict its effects?

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

For example: Ship has power setting 100 wep/50shld/25engine/25 aux, runs at full speed and shield facings are all at full strength. It gets hit by viral matrix.

For the next 20 seconds... every 5 seconds the ship power settings will randomly change (25/100/25/50 ...5 seconds later 50-50-50-50, 5 seconds later change again,etc), its speed will randomly shift from full stop to full speed and everything in between every 5 secs and its shields will switch every 5 seconds to doing transfer shield power to left shield, to right shield, to rear shield, etc.

Both NPCs and players would be equally affected.


Scramble Sensors

It should do what it says: Scramble sensors. Two effects ...one for players and another for NPCs. Effect should last 10 seconds.

Players: The static-on-screen that we get in episode missions when entering those nebulas that have 'high interference' should pop up and player's targeting systems should lose lock every 2 seconds.

NPCs: NPCs should randomly re-target anything near them..friend or foe, and for 10 seconds fire upon it.

Single target ability.


Jam Sensors

Similar to scramble sensors but different in application. Jam sensors cuts the range in which a player or NPC can target anything down to 2km range for anywhere between 5 to 15 seconds (Jam 1 = 5, Jam 2=10, Jam 3=15)

Cone ability 90 degrees in front of ship. Affects all targets. Cooldown 1 minute.

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

easily defeated by a macro.

Cone ability 90 degrees in front of ship. Affects all targets. Cooldown 1 minute.

including "blue on blue". I think any weapon or effect should effect same team ships. how many times has that teammate in a Defiant fly through your 7 beam broadside?

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I was kinda disappointed to see that even the most powerful science vessels only had 6 weapons slots. I wouldve thought at least 7. It doesn't seem fair to any science officers.

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Well, could always put sci on a different type of ship. I'm considering sci/sci bortas, or sci/guramba. Maybe a vo'quv... Hmm.

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i tend to disagree with the notion that GW is weak i have used it to great effect and have seen it used to

great effect. science ships in my opinion are support ships that when used properly can give any team a

distinct advantage in the face of overwhelming numbers plus if you have things like torp spread you can

really chain the damage to the other ships caught if you can contain them and usually you can. also sci

ships get the target sub systems powers for free which can really soften big thing like the stadi, tac cubes

and other player controlled ships. sci ships may be weak weapon and hull wise but in the hands of a good

player they can really control how the battle is fought.

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Well, could always put sci on a different type of ship. I'm considering sci/sci bortas, or sci/guramba. Maybe a vo'quv... Hmm.

Sci in Escorts tends to be wicked stuff.

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My sci captain currently flies an escort in STFs as a support vessel. APB 3 and subsystem targeting are more useful than what any sci ability would bring, and since i fly an MVAE I still have tyken's rift as well.

The problem is very simple, you do NOT every allow CC abilities to be increased by the player unless you want a balancing nightmare. The insane range of potential on sci abilities means one of three possibilities.

1) Power is weak no matter how hard you specialize in it.
2) Power is insanely weak unless you specialize solely upon it.
3) Power is insanely powerful if you specialize in it.

Think about it, you have the base amount (0 skill) that can then be effected by up to 4 +30 consoles now (120 points), a deflector (24? points), skill points (99), and trait mod (10). Or a max of 253 'skill' for focusing. What modifier can you possibly use that will not cause one of the above 3 situations? Oh and lets not forget the up to 75% resist that can apply. Just as an example lets take Gravity Well's pull effect.

Current
Base GW1 has a pull of .5
Each 100 skill points increases it by .05 (guess, that or it just has a hardcap)
Result: No reason at all to care about the skill in any capacity, or situation 1

Increase Modifier, Reduce base.
Make base .4
Make Mod of every 50 pts grants .1 pull, or max of .9 pull
Result: OP if specialized, or situation 3

Try Reducing Modifier with reduced base.
Make base .4
Make Mod of every 75 pts grants .1 pull, or max of nearly .73
Result: Decent if specialized worthless otherwise, or situation 2

Simply put sci skill tree needs reworked, or at the very least the consoles need to be reworked in a method other than adding to skills so that the powers can be balanced properly. Name one other game that allows such insanely huge variance in CC abilities based off skills that isn't horribly unbalanced. I dare ya!

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Thats the problem you ''belive'' that all enemys are the same and is not, if one thing i learned of the game and i played all episodes in elite is that neither of the enemys you are facing behaves the same way and use the same powers they have diferent skills, you have to adapt your tactics to kill them and this is specially important in pvp..
I believe it because I've seen it. I went through each star cluster doing space combat missions today, throwing all of my science abilities at everything before me. Romulans, Jem'Hadar, Cardassian, Borg, Cryptic-races, Klingons... all of them were affected in the same way.

Trust me, I have no problem laying waste to pretty much everything in my path in elite missions these days, especially on this science ship. But that's mostly because I'm set up as a torpedo boat and I can take off an NPC ship's shields with Tachyon Beam in one pass and then blow them to high hell in the second pass. I hardly use any of my skills outside of Tachyon Beam, Tractor Beam, and Torpedo High Yield II.

In PvE, my gravity well takes a long time to actually pull things in. It does fairly respectable damage on its own. My Tyken's Rift does absolutely nothing. Energy Siphon barely has an effect on enemy ships. Viral Matrix takes a noticeable effect maybe a second or two before I kill an enemy ship if I launch it straight away.

The trouble is, These don't even really work in PvP because players take innate resistance abilities. Some of these resistances are broken, but the abilities themselves are even more broken. Adding on 75% resistance is just taking the cake.

I'm not asking for I-Win buttons. I'm just asking for iconic science abilities to actually have meaning when you use them. Throwing down a Gravity Well or using Tachyon Beam should be a big deal, but right now it's only a good way to get people to laugh at you, in both PvP and PvE.

Edit: Well this is disappointing:

Mine and Torpedo Tactical Console mods have been fixed so they only affect Mines or Torpedoes.
They will no longer affect other abilities that happen to do Kinetic damage.
For people like me who had fully stocked up on these consoles... well, goodbye Gravity Well. I'll go train something else.

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In PvE, my gravity well takes a long time to actually pull things in. It does fairly respectable damage on its own. My Tyken's Rift does absolutely nothing. Energy Siphon barely has an effect on enemy ships. Viral Matrix takes a noticeable effect maybe a second or two before I kill an enemy ship if I launch it straight away.

The trouble is, These don't even really work in PvP because players take innate resistance abilities. Some of these resistances are broken, but the abilities themselves are even more broken. Adding on 75% resistance is just taking the cake.

I'm not asking for I-Win buttons. I'm just asking for iconic science abilities to actually have meaning when you use them. Throwing down a Gravity Well or using Tachyon Beam should be a big deal, but right now it's only a good way to get people to laugh at you, in both PvP and PvE.


I agree. I would not want OP abilities either. I just want them to work properly.

[Archived Post]

Fix: Change viral matrix so that instead of shutting down ship systems it scrambles their power, shield and speed settings. All at once. For 20 seconds, every 5 seconds.

easily defeated by a macro.


Not if you remove the player's ability to change the settings while viral'd which I'd assume would happen anyway.

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There is no way to macro power setting changes, speed setting changes and shield power transfers in a way to reliably defeat it.

In fact, running a macro trying to would end up acting like a second viral matrix because if viral says power to shields left and the macro says power to all shields ..then the ship ends up receiving 2 constant sets of shield commands and the overall shield strength does not get redistributed to compensate for incoming damage as it normally would.

Manually changing power settings and such takes up player time which by itself can be as valuable a combat advantage as the viral matrix effect itself. Too busy clicking on things to counter your other abilities and attacks or maneuvering.