Death Penalty

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Hope it has been put in place for LIVE.

Not asking for a Hardcore penalty just a penalty that makes battles "meaningful"


Crew loss that doesnt regenerate and forces you to buy crew is a start.

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Haven't we gone over this before? It just doesn't work with the current setup of pvp, for open pvp a timed debuff could do to stop people getting back to fights for a little and forcing ends to them but otherwise nuh uh.

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I would not count on a death penalty, BUT I haven't been in yet, so who knows?

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The current system simply doesn't lend itself well to death penalties for PvP. I think some penalty for PvE deaths would be fine, but it just wouldn't work too well for PvP. Unless of course it was just some kind of short duration debuff, which might work out ok.

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Death penalties in a deathmatch would be pretty silly.

In "Open PvP" areas, yes, we very much need a death penalty in order to stop "spawn rushing".

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Here's a death penalty, when you die, don't hit respawn when it becomes an option after 15 seconds, wait like...3 minutes or 5 minutes or better yet, log out the character! That's HARDCOREZ.

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Here's a death penalty, when you die, don't hit respawn when it becomes an option after 15 seconds, wait like...3 minutes or 5 minutes or better yet, log out the character! That's HARDCOREZ.

/facepalm

The point of a death penalty in open PvP is to stop the person you killed from immediately coming back to harass you.

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ok wow more upset fedys whining about the klingons we do not need a DP because it would not make any thing better because ever one would whine more and the pvp queues would be useless abd open pvp if you die I could see you being kicked out of the instace for a couple mins but we dont really need a DP.

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tyhe problem with applying a death penalty that makes battles "meaningful" is it'll drive awy a large portion offolks from PVP.the casual PVPer who doesn't do it much but occasionally likes to try it, even though he proanbly sucks.

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Here is Romulan78's post on wanting a death penalty back on 1-13-10:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=60695

After 60+ pages a "meaningful" death penalty was never defined clearly, but many false claims were made, including mis-quoting anti-dp people to support pro-dp claims. Good fun all around. :)

Anything that could be said here was probably already said in the other thread over the last 2 weeks.

With the way PvP works now a death penalty would just add an arbitrary punishment.. Especially considering how fast you can die when 5 enemy players focus fire on you.

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im all for a slightly harsher DP for pve maybe a slower regen of crew, in pvp deathmatch style games they should just leave it out (like most games). For open pvp either way could work depending on how it is set up

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Yes, let's make PvP more tedious.

Great idea. :rolleyes:

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If crew regen didn't happen in combat, and having low crew was a general debuff - that would be enough I think.

I definitely don't want to spend medals on crew, considering.

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Here is Romulan78's post on wanting a death penalty back on 1-13-10:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=60695

After 60+ pages a "meaningful" death penalty was never defined clearly, but many false claims were made, including mis-quoting anti-dp people to support pro-dp claims. Good fun all around. :)

Anything that could be said here was probably already said in the other thread over the last 2 weeks.

With the way PvP works now a death penalty would just add an arbitrary punishment.. Especially considering how fast you can die when 5 enemy players focus fire on you.


There was no misquoting. I quoted some people with ideas in the first post of the thread... thanks for linking it.

As far as DP in the long run it will definately be needed if this game is supposed to have a future and an end game. Open PVP will eventually be in place and without a death penalty it will just be a grind.

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There was no misquoting. I quoted some people with ideas in the first post of the thread... thanks for linking it.

As far as DP in the long run it will definately be needed if this game is supposed to have a future and an end game. Open PVP will eventually be in place and without a death penalty it will just be a grind.

I am happy to link it. It pretty much covers all the pro and anti-dp statements so that we do not need another 60+ page thread full of false claims like before. :)

On a side note.. You were even asked to stop mis-quoting... But you didn't. :(

Romulan78, are you sure Sol_Seeker and Goodwind support adding a death penalty in this game? You seem to think so since you are using a quotes of thiers to support your point on your (modified) front page.

You may want to ask them if it is ok, or, maybe you already have.

I am shocked, shocked I say, that he would take something out of context and try to make it mean something it don't.

Why don't you stop trying to fake quotes to make it sound like they support an idea when they don't?

By the way, let me know when we get to the part about having a "choice" for DP:

... Back on subject, the answer is a "choice" those that are not interested in meaningful pvp can choose this system and those that are should be able to choose to have DP.

Most MMO's have a choice and that is all I am asking for STO to do.

Please name 3 mainstream MMOs which offer a choice to the player for Death Penalty in PvP?

You said MOST MMOs have this. Now back up your claim or admit you were making it up.

Alot of these games already have meaningful pvp with both reward and punishment after death so they dont need to offer a choice its already implemented and you choose to fight or not.

EVE is one, UO is one, POTBS is one

Then you have games such as WOW in which you can enjoy a pvp server and when you die you dont respawn back into a battle but instead have to walk back and/or face gear that ruins and lose stats for a small amount of time.

***Underline in the above quote is mine***

Yep, I agree, an excellent thread to link to. :)

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A death penalty will destroy the Klingon population. Until both sides are balanced in the availability of leveling content, the ability to amass merits and medals, and collect gear there is no way DP makes sense.

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Then you have games such as WOW in which you can enjoy a pvp server and when you die you dont respawn back into a battle but instead have to walk back and/or face gear that ruins and lose stats for a small amount of time.

This is incorrect actually. If you die in PvP there is zero dp in WoW. What he said is pure fabrication.

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This is incorrect actually. If you die in PvP there is zero dp in WoW. What he said is pure fabrication.
Eh? As I recall, in battlegrounds there's no death penalty but in open world PvP (on open PvP servers) it's the usual ghost-run to rez at your corpse or take a stat hit and rez at the graveyard.

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Eh? As I recall, in battlegrounds there's no death penalty but in open world PvP (on open PvP servers) it's the usual ghost-run to rez at your corpse or take a stat hit and rez at the graveyard.

Nope. unless it was recently changed there was no equipment loss on death. If you managed to beat him near death then get him killed by a PvE mob there was. However it was not a stat loss but your equipment losing durability.

There is zero need for DPs in OPvP or Instanced PvP. It has nothing to do with culling a zerg as neither Planetside or WAR had a PvP DP. All culling zergs take is more than thirty seconds of critical thinking.

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Eh? As I recall, in battlegrounds there's no death penalty but in open world PvP (on open PvP servers) it's the usual ghost-run to rez at your corpse or take a stat hit and rez at the graveyard.

which is a pretty big death penalty compared to what we have, and wow is supposed to be the carebear game, whats that say about STO!?

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no point pvping if there is no fear of death
maybe its activated on later levels?

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The instance PvP is just death match Team Forstress will a lot less skill, in such matches death penalties can nto work. In open PvP I would like to see people wake up in sick bays across the galaxy or your ship in space dock. Have the character/Ship have a debuff for 5 mins to stop them jumping back in.

Open PvP is still only a dream as the Open Beta event showed though Kilingons are insanly out numbered and out gunned and so no one would take part in open PvP just instance based death matches.

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Open PvP is still only a dream as the Open Beta event showed though Kilingons are insanly out numbered and out gunned and so no one would take part in open PvP just instance based death matches.

I would :) once you get past the spawn camping its fun flying around sol or Ds9 picking off the loners :)

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First off ill be playing this game in february and hopefully a long time.

But please developers! This is just crazy! So I die in space and what is my reward? I spawn 10 feet away and ready for battle again? Wtf is this call of duty?
Please do something...
At least change it for pvp to being kicked out of the instance when you die, or set it up that you come back but with 50% shields for 10 minutes.
Anything is better then the current system, don't reward stupid play punish it.
I hear that devs of this game are responsive to players issues I can't see how they can't fix this before live...

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BELOW ARE SOME WORKABLE IDEAS PRESENTED IN THIS THREAD consolidated for developers to have easier time in finding (PAGE OF THREAD ALSO LISTED)

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PG11- Higher lvl, Higher Penalty

No death penalties when you start, more severe death penalties as you get higher up in level.

Say something like this

1-10 No penalty

11-20 Slight loss of merit

21-30 Moderate loss of merit, slight ship damage that needs to be repairs at star base that will take a few minutes to fix

31-40 Moderate loss of merit and energy, moderate ship damage that needs to be repaired that might take up to an hour to fix

41-50 Moderate loss of merit and energy, severe damage to ship that needs to be repaired at station, will take approximately a few hours to fix.

PG 13- % durability loss on items from death

Whilst I completely agree that there should be a death penalty, the title of your thread is misleading.
You see, a deal-breaker would imply that you wouldn't play this game if this wasn't fixed, yet you'll apparently be playing.

Personally, I would like a similar system to that in wow(and likely many other games, but it was my first MMO) whereby you lose 10% durability on all equipped items when your ship is destroyed.
In ground missions, this should be only on your character's items and in ship combat, only ship damage.

PG 32- Choice (pop up) system for pvp

Answer me this all you that are against a death penalty


How does it hurt your experience in the game if cryptic introduced a "choice"

before PVP combat a pop up goes up and asks if you would like the battle to have item loss (random)

That would please some of us that feel the current system is lacking and would give EVERYONE a choice.

So?


PG 34- Death causes you to go to starbase, escape pod or disabled

1) Let's say your only disabled in a battle...not destroyed. Then you have to contact Starfleet for a tow back to the nearest starbase? Penalty being you start back at the nearest starbase?

2) Or how about the option for players to use escape pods, for the crew.
You would then jettison all pods before destruction, then find yourself back at the nearest starbase with your ship refitted as it was? Penalty of course is starting back from a starbase.

3) Or possibly give all ally players the ability to aid disabled ships, and also have them get a REWARD for doing so? If no friendlies are nearby or you can't call a buddy in, then option 1 above is your alternative?

Maybe these friendly aiding ships could let's say regenerate the disabled ally to 50%?

Just brainstorming, possibly for a happy-medium

PG 53- Dynamic increase in rez timer the more you die

I personally do not need a death penalty. I try all humanly (betazoidian?) possible ways not to die anywhere. I see dying as a failure on my part.

But I do agree that not all people look at the game the same way, and "the zerg" sucks. The only death penalty I would like to see if a delay on the rez timer that gets larger each time you die. You die once, no delay to rez (the normal 10 seconds I think). You die twice, rez delay becomes 20s. You die more, it gets longer. That should tell you that you have to try to stay alive, and also stop the mighty zerg without being a pain to the people that die from time to time. Dying is inevitable anyways.

PG 54- Faction specific Spawn point, increase spawn time

That's fine. Should be a faction specific spawn point, a minute away from the center. Increase spawn time to 30-60 seconds

If you have a problem that you do not wish to die to someone that just spawned after you killed him because you didn't have time to recharge it's a valid point. Currently I simply move up/down and hide until my shield/hull replenishes.
You do that, plus you apply the "crew" loss (although I hope they fine tune that so it doesnt EVER regenerate by itself but instead you need to purchase crew at starbases, and I think you have a winner.

1. You give the victors a advantage and some time to regroup (as they deserve it since they won the skirmish)

2. You are in effect putting a death penatly in place by increasing the spawn time and distance

3. You are helping the economy and making death more meaningful by making us pay for our crew instead of some lame "regeneration" that makes zero sense.


pg 56- Death penalty repair cost scaled based on Hull (durability based)

Adding a death penalty repair cost will not prevent the scenario you are claiming to be afraid of. It's the unlimited amounts of money, via missions or loot grinding, that leads to inflation.
You'd have to have such a serious and bankrupting death penalty repair cost for it to even matter. That would harm newer players far more than over-priced items in the AH.

It would make sense to a degree. Its usually scaled to gear. In this case I would say Hull since they would have to create a new mechanic "durability" for consoles and weapons. Since Hulls increase in HP from tier to tier, it could work. The only issue would be increasing the amount of energy earned in Episodes and patrols.

pg 59-Some good ideas)

Why are a lot of the posts on here supporting money loss or XP? Does money fly out of your ship when a hull is breached? How about battle experience when I respawn did I forget getting pwnd by some huge ship?

This is a sensible Death Penalty IMO.
Crew: Yes crew die they are the unlucky SOBs standing next to the Bulkhead when it breaches and fly out into space but why 50%? you realize you are going back up against the same big @$$ battle cruiser that just flatten you right? there should be 3 colors on the bar blue alive, yellow for injured in sickbay and red for the KIA's......
Systems: yes you should be offline and adrift when you respawn for a few minutes....
Bridge Officers: should be greyed out and out of commision for a bit but come back after being healed. The BO's are the named guys in the shows they don't die lol they get crippled and recover but no matter how many times they fly from one end of the bridge to the other a hypospray and a few minutes they are back up and ready to go in the TV shows and Movies for a case in point....

Now when you respawn you have to wait for your O'brien or Scotty to fix you up then go back

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Above are some of the good ideas that Asakara was nice enough to link to.

Thanks again, hope all our hard work sometimes rewards us with a death penalty!

[Archived Post]

Above are some of the good ideas that Asakara was nice enough to link to.

Thanks again, hope all our hard work sometimes rewards us with a death penalty!

Seriously, you have been asked to remove the quotes which you took out of context and distorted for your own purpose multiple times.

Do you feel it is honest to distort what people say to support your own view?