Return MES to former strength

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With the changes to MES, escorts are not a viable choice for pvp anymore. MES pops so fast now, even maxed out its useless. Escorts have no option for suprise anymore and are being focus fired down in seconds.

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With the changes to MES, escorts are not a viable choice for pvp anymore. MES pops so fast now, even maxed out its useless. Escorts have no option for suprise anymore and are being focus fired down in seconds.

For all I know MEs was utterly overpowered before, the vast majority of the players asked for a nerf and on top of that mes is known to be bugged per the devs. They did say they are repairing Mes but do not expect it to be as it once was.

its dead jim.

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For all I know MEs was utterly overpowered before, the vast majority of the players asked for a nerf and on top of that mes is known to be bugged per the devs. They did say they are repairing Mes but do not expect it to be as it once was.

its dead jim.

No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

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Ah, this is a pretty old debate. I say lets wait for how MES rank 2 turns out, and if it is possible to reach a good level of stealth with skills.

/edited for your reading pleasure!

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No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

Utter B******t i was a science captain in my BOP with maxed out science skills and i couldn't detect it at 2 km , not all us Klingons went for just DPS.
MES was broken then and its broken now but it shouldnt of been nowehere near as effective as it was.

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Utter B******t i was a science captain in my BOP with maxed out science skills and i couldn't detect it at 2 km , not all us Klingons went for just DPS.
MES was broken then and its broken now but it shouldnt of been nowehere near as effective as it was.

I played both sides in closed and in open and i know MES could be popped from the kling side and from playing with it as a FED.

Its totally useless now and klings are still able to combine it with cloak as they did before.

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No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

You claim that the Klingons were not smart because they complained instead of adapting. Now you are complaining instead of adapting.

If one skill was all that kept escorts 'useful,' I'd say that there's a good chance that it was an overpowered skill. Maybe you should try different tactics?

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It was OP. Anyone with half a brain can see it was. It got rightly nerfed, get over it. Other skills will have the same done to them as well.

I suggest instead of clinging onto the skills that are blatently OP you try and use the ones that are not, as the former will be nerfed into oblivion sooner or later. MES was one of these such skills.

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With the changes to MES, escorts are not a viable choice for pvp anymore. MES pops so fast now, even maxed out its useless. Escorts have no option for suprise anymore and are being focus fired down in seconds.

how about , NO.

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With the changes escorts are useless now.

I find it hard to believe that one skill or one power renders an entire ship class useless or broken. If you base your entire strategy on one thing that makes you....what's the term I'm looking for...

One-dimensional.

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You claim that the Klingons were not smart because they complained instead of adapting. Now you are complaining instead of adapting.

If one skill was all that kept escorts 'useful,' I'd say that there's a good chance that it was an overpowered skill. Maybe you should try different tactics?

How do you adept to a worthless skill, its utterly useless now. At 9 km MES pops now (with the skill maxed out). Escorts have no chance anymore.

Even with MES we had teh option of suprise on klings,if they were uncloaked, but even after we still didnt have the evade ability klings do, klings get in a tight spot they evade, outrun feds and pop cloak again. Feds wernt able to get out of range in time to even try and pop it again.

Not counting dropping our shields now, klings see us with MES on now and hammer us with no shields. BAM we are dead in seconds.

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I find it hard to believe that one skill or one power renders an entire ship class useless or broken. If you base your entire strategy on one thing that makes you....what's the term I'm looking for...

One-dimensional.

Try loading up in a pvp match as an escort and just run out there like a cruiser and see how fast you last.

Focus fire and your out, atleast before we had the option to wait and attack when we chose to not when we were forced to.

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It was OP. Anyone with half a brain can see it was. It got rightly nerfed, get over it. Other skills will have the same done to them as well.

I suggest instead of clinging onto the skills that are blatently OP you try and use the ones that are not, as the former will be nerfed into oblivion sooner or later. MES was one of these such skills.

Exactly, it should never be returned to the way it was and the devs have said so. It is currently bugged so we can see how well it works after the fix.

MES is currently bugged. We'll be fixing it soon, but I wouldn't expect a return to it's former levels of power.

Thanks,

Stormshade

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Exactly, it should never be returned to the way it was and the devs have said so. It is currently bugged so we can see how well it works after the fix.

The fix is in and its worthless now. There is no advatage to useing this skill at all now.

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The fix is in and its worthless now. There is no advatage to useing this skill at all now.

If people make reasonable suggestions on how it should be changed then the devs will probably listen. The problem was all of the Pro MES people ignored how overpowered it was and asked for it to stay the same. If they asked for reasonable nerf they might have got that instead. Cryptic just did it there own way and bashed it over the head with the nerf hammer.

I wouldn't mind seeing it changed to being invisible to anyone over the distance of 5-6k. Within that distance they show up as a cloaked ship that you an see where it is a little bit faded. Once you knock them out of it then they go back to normal.

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I played both sides in closed and in open and i know MES could be popped from the kling side and from playing with it as a FED.

Its totally useless now and klings are still able to combine it with cloak as they did before.

I took it on my BoP, I went as close as 1km to sensor scanning sci ships and was not detected, it was OP and needing nerfing.

How do you adept to a worthless skill, its utterly useless now. At 9 km MES pops now (with the skill maxed out). Escorts have no chance anymore.

Even with MES we had teh option of suprise on klings,if they were uncloaked, but even after we still didnt have the evade ability klings do, klings get in a tight spot they evade, outrun feds and pop cloak again. Feds wernt able to get out of range in time to even try and pop it again.

Not counting dropping our shields now, klings see us with MES on now and hammer us with no shields. BAM we are dead in seconds.

The only thing that should be evading and recloaking on you is BoPs and lucky raptors.

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Well, we all knew this was coming. Feds don't get cloak. That's been said by the devs over and over.

We warned the fedrats to enjoy the OP ability while they had it, because it was definitely changing.

The fight is between one well equipped and well balanced force against another force who is weaker and less well equipped but has a potentially unfair advantage. It's deliberately unfair both ways.

Winning the fight entails making sure that your unfair advantage is the one that determines the outcome.

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Well, we all knew this was coming. Feds don't get cloak. That's been said by the devs over and over.

We warned the fedrats to enjoy the OP ability while they had it, because it was definitely changing.

The fight is between one well equipped and well balanced force against another force who is weaker and less well equipped but has a potentially unfair advantage. It's deliberately unfair both ways.

Winning the fight entails making sure that your unfair advantage is the one that determines the outcome.

I love you.

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Well, we all knew this was coming. Feds don't get cloak. That's been said by the devs over and over.

We warned the fedrats to enjoy the OP ability while they had it, because it was definitely changing.

The fight is between one well equipped and well balanced force against another force who is weaker and less well equipped but has a potentially unfair advantage. It's deliberately unfair both ways.

Winning the fight entails making sure that your unfair advantage is the one that determines the outcome.

For there to be balance between escorts and BoPs then a decloaking BoP who opens fire on an escort should have a 50-50 chance of winning, that doesnt exist at all due to escort shields & hull being poor.Escorts get gang ***** in PvP with no chance of fighting back . That is not balanced

A BoP may have slightly less hull and shields than an escort but when it chooses the fights to pick and does the amount of damage it can is superior to an escort. I have played both in closed and open Beta and know this to be fact from what i have seen.

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For there to be balance between escorts and BoPs then a decloaking BoP who opens fire on an escort should have a 50-50 chance of winning, that doesnt exist at all due to escort shields & hull being poor.Escorts get gang ***** in PvP with no chance of fighting back . That is not balanced

A BoP may have slightly less hull and shields than an escort but when it chooses the fights to pick and does the amount of damage it can is superior to an escort. I have played both in closed and open Beta and know this to be fact from what i have seen.

Its not a 1 on 1 game, Its a team game. As soon as your escorts get hit they should have defences up and the sci and eng guys should be healing and buffing them. I have seen good fed teams do this will amazing results, keeping an escort alive whilst 4 bops pounded him in T3.

And if you're in a team of 5 escorts? Well, thats your problem ;)

Feds have tougher ships, we have cloak. Want what we have? Roll a klink. If you get cloak, we get tougher ships. Then the only difference between the factions is the colour of our insignia which would be pretty dull.

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Its not a 1 on 1 game, Its a team game. As soon as your escorts get hit they should have defences up and the sci and eng guys should be healing and buffing them. I have seen good fed teams do this will amazing results, keeping an escort alive whilst 4 bops pounded him in T3.

And if you're in a team of 5 escorts? Well, thats your problem ;)

Feds have tougher ships, we have cloak. Want what we have? Roll a klink. If you get cloak, we get tougher ships. Then the only difference between the factions is the colour of our insignia which would be pretty dull.

he's not arguing a 1v1. and the only thing that prevents an escort from utterly collapsing is RSP.

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Its not a 1 on 1 game, Its a team game. As soon as your escorts get hit they should have defences up and the sci and eng guys should be healing and buffing them. I have seen good fed teams do this will amazing results, keeping an escort alive whilst 4 bops pounded him in T3.

And if you're in a team of 5 escorts? Well, thats your problem ;)

Feds have tougher ships, we have cloak. Want what we have? Roll a klink. If you get cloak, we get tougher ships. Then the only difference between the factions is the colour of our insignia which would be pretty dull.

Not only do you have cloak but you have battle cloak and you can use MES, am i the only one that sees a problem with this? The only somewhat advantage escorts had was MES, once we popped it there was very seldom a chance to use it until the fight was over, unlike klinks.

Now we have a useless dps ship and a cruiser that takes a week and a half to turn.

Lets see how this works now, feds ball up klinks come in and focus fire on an escort to cut the dps out, escort drops in seconds and bam there ya go.

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Well, we all knew this was coming. Feds don't get cloak. That's been said by the devs over and over.

We warned the fedrats to enjoy the OP ability while they had it, because it was definitely changing.

The fight is between one well equipped and well balanced force against another force who is weaker and less well equipped but has a potentially unfair advantage. It's deliberately unfair both ways.

Winning the fight entails making sure that your unfair advantage is the one that determines the outcome.

No the devs didnt say this over and over. Fact is hardly anything was mentioned about MES by the devs until the post on the bug thread about it after headstart.

I will admit you should not have been able to capture points with it on, but now its useless. Its even useless in pve now...

All klinks had to do was drop mines and any MES ship around them would be hit by the mines, really a no brainer on that, but wait that took a slot up that cut your dps.....

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All klinks had to do was drop mines and any MES ship around them would be hit by the mines, really a no brainer on that, but wait that took a slot up that cut your dps.....
All Feds have to do is drop mines and any cloaked ship around them will be hit by the mines, really a no brainer on that, but wait that takes a slot up that cuts your dps.....

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are there any really disadvantages for bop's ?

they have cloak and battlecloak , dont know the cooldown for it, think its 20 sec but correct me :)
they can fire like hell after decloak and have shields - i thought all energy flows into the cloaking device so how can their weapons and shields have energy after they decloak ? why no cooldown on weapons and shields after decloak like using the super impulse engine ???
hull and shields are not really lesser then an escort , and now without MES there is no reason to play an escort in pvp anymore, its like playing cannonfodder..

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They said it was bugged and not working as intended, with extra bonuses or something..

Cry more. Seriously.

IF you want cloak, play klingon.

Feds dont get cloak.

We could drop mines, but dont you have shields up while in cloak we DONT?

It was a better cloak in most instances.

L2Play

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Its not a 1 on 1 game, Its a team game. As soon as your escorts get hit they should have defences up and the sci and eng guys should be healing and buffing them. I have seen good fed teams do this will amazing results, keeping an escort alive whilst 4 bops pounded him in T3.

And if you're in a team of 5 escorts? Well, thats your problem ;)

Feds have tougher ships, we have cloak. Want what we have? Roll a klink. If you get cloak, we get tougher ships. Then the only difference between the factions is the colour of our insignia which would be pretty dull.

feds may have tougher ships by a couple of thousand Hull but thats nothing to the utility of the cloak. I have no issue with MES being reduced from what it used to be but right now its truly worthless in both pve and pvp and its also a skill that BOTH sides can use.

The only difference between the escort and the BoP is

SMALL increase in hull
LESS turning
NO cloak
SAME damage output (actually the BoP does more whenn it can appear at optimum cannon range)

hands down without a significant increase in ability the Escort is inferior. I have played escort AND BoP alot in Beta and i found the BoP FAR more powerful.

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feds may have tougher ships by a couple of thousand Hull but thats nothing to the utility of the cloak. I have no issue with MES being reduced from what it used to be but right now its truly worthless in both pve and pvp and its also a skill that BOTH sides can use.

The only difference between the escort and the BoP is

SMALL increase in hull
LESS turning
NO cloak
SAME damage output (actually the BoP does more whenn it can appear at optimum cannon range)

hands down without a significant increase in ability the Escort is inferior. I have played escort AND BoP alot in Beta and i found the BoP FAR more powerful.

Are you taking firing arcs into account? If we want MORE DPS we have to slot in cannons. We cant just fly around spamming spacebar with autotarget.

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I will say this over and over again, with damage the way it currently is on BOTH sides cloak needs to either; be available to protect the squishier team members or not available at all.

Are you taking firing arcs into account? If we want MORE DPS we have to slot in cannons. We cant just fly around spamming spacebar with autotarget.

oh god. not this arguement. just because you refuse to load a single bank or array into your ship, doesn't make it our problem.

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All Feds have to do is drop mines and any cloaked ship around them will be hit by the mines, really a no brainer on that, but wait that takes a slot up that cuts your dps.....

Dont think anyone is talking about your cloak or battle cloak now are we, your just trying to troll...

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Are you taking firing arcs into account? If we want MORE DPS we have to slot in cannons. We cant just fly around spamming spacebar with autotarget.

ermmm we also want cannons for damage as we are a dps ship........

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Are you taking firing arcs into account? If we want MORE DPS we have to slot in cannons. We cant just fly around spamming spacebar with autotarget.

Not only is it your choice to choose to put an array in but you have the advantage of first strike, which you almost always do is come in from the top with cannons going...... and ALL of your ships turn faster then any fed ship. So lining up for you is not an issue.

You dont have to sacrafice an equiptment slot to be able to turn faster either which is messed up...

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I will say this over and over again, with damage the way it currently is on BOTH sides cloak needs to either; be available to protect the squishier team members or not available at all.



oh god. not this arguement. just because you refuse to load a single bank or array into your ship, doesn't make it our problem.

Hey smart guy...thats what the ships are DESIGNED for. Same way that the fed ships are DESIGNED to have really good firing arcs with array weapons because of sow turn rates. Thats WHY we have more DPS.
If we equipped the same weapons as you..we'd..SHOCK/AWE, have the same DPS. 0_0 ( though not really because our weapon slots are in different positions. ie. THE FRONT.)

Please think before vomitting letters into the forum.

Actually, I dont believe that you NEED cloak to protect a squishy ship. I tanked 3 fed ships in PVP on 3 occassions, to buy time for the rest of the klingons to show up and resuce my arse.
(Note: remember that tier 2 + BOP is the only ship that can battle cloak. Our GOOD ships cant just vanish when the going gets tough.)
IF you are flying straight at the enemy getting nuked and not popping every skill you have WHILE maneuvering and giving them fresh shield arcs to hit, so that your team can mop them up....you're doing it wrong.

I had feds complaining in tier 1 matches because "klingon ships are way better, we couldn't kill one of you with 3 of us focusing on."

Engineers are a b itch.

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Hey smart guy...thats what the ships are DESIGNED for. Same way that the fed ships are DESIGNED to have really good firing arcs with array weapons because of sow turn rates. Thats WHY we have more DPS.
If we equipped the same weapons as you..we'd..SHOCK/AWE, have the same DPS. 0_0 ( though not really because our weapon slots are in different positions. ie. THE FRONT.)


I had feds complaining in tier 1 matches because "klingon ships are way better, we couldn't kill one of you with 3 of us focusing on."


at higher levels damage is so high that you will need reverse shield polarity if you dont wanna crack in under 10 seconds. I'm not talking about lower tier I'm talking about higher tier.

And not all fed ships are cruisers



Actually, I dont believe that you NEED cloak to protect a squishy ship. I tanked 3 fed ships in PVP on 3 occassions, to buy time for the rest of the klingons to show up and resuce my arse.
(Note: remember that tier 2 + BOP is the only ship that can battle cloak. Our GOOD ships cant just vanish when the going gets tough.)
IF you are flying straight at the enemy getting nuked and not popping every skill you have WHILE maneuvering and giving them fresh shield arcs to hit, so that your team can mop them up....you're doing it wrong.

I had to cut this out because its simply wrong. You need the cloak to avoid being the target of EVERY SINGLE hit and run because its significantly easier to kill an escort than it is a cruiser.

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kdf doesn't have dedicated sci ships (discounting the carrier), and their version of the sci and engineering ships have one less bridge officer slot - so it's not apples and apples.

I might have a slightly different perspective, because I've played both sides of the game equally - however I have seen both sides win so completely that the enemy felt they had no chance.

KDF faced with a coordinated UFP side who backs up their obvious targets (escorts), and sticks together and focuses fire has a very hard time leveraging their alpha strike from cloak ability.

From sci ships with subsystem targetting to cruisers with heavy hull and engineer bridge officer slots, the UFP has tools to make it hard for a simple full frontal assault to get very far.

On the other hand, I've seen well coordinated KDF hit and run without losses.

Either way, each side has a clear strategic agenda and they are completely different. The KDF needs to hit the feds before they group up, the feds need to prevent any of their people from getting singled out.

I highly suggest that anyone who enjoys PVP play both sides. I think you'll come to understand that it's a devil's bargain sort of balance, in that it's equally unfair both ways.

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The only way to make it an even fight between an escort and a BoP is to make the BoP's shields have a 3 or 4 second timer before they're shields powered up after they drop cloak . As it stands right now doing pvp in an escort is pointless , ive been doing it all morning and havent gotten a single kill on a BoP that came at me out of stealth

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Escorts are going to be picked out first, PERIOD. We aren't going to lock onto a cruiser when we have 2 escorts flying around us BLASTING us to pieces.

We'll see how higher tier matches end up soon. With people taking the game seriously, getting into fleets with vent etc, there will be alot of coordination going on.
Frankly that aspect has more impact on the game than any cloak or strafing run, high dps ship we have.

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Not only is it your choice to choose to put an array in but you have the advantage of first strike, which you almost always do is come in from the top with cannons going...... and ALL of your ships turn faster then any fed ship. So lining up for you is not an issue.

You dont have to sacrafice an equiptment slot to be able to turn faster either which is messed up...

No we have to sacrifice two to not be made out of wet paper though. We also get less shields and hell and Boffs for Maneuverability.

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kdf doesn't have dedicated sci ships (discounting the carrier), and their version of the sci and engineering ships have one less bridge officer slot - so it's not apples and apples.

I might have a slightly different perspective, because I've played both sides of the game equally - however I have seen both sides win so completely that the enemy felt they had no chance.

KDF faced with a coordinated UFP side who backs up their obvious targets (escorts), and sticks together and focuses fire has a very hard time leveraging their alpha strike from cloak ability.

From sci ships with subsystem targetting to cruisers with heavy hull and engineer bridge officer slots, the UFP has tools to make it hard for a simple full frontal assault to get very far.

On the other hand, I've seen well coordinated KDF hit and run without losses.

Either way, each side has a clear strategic agenda and they are completely different. The KDF needs to hit the feds before they group up, the feds need to prevent any of their people from getting singled out.

I highly suggest that anyone who enjoys PVP play both sides. I think you'll come to understand that it's a devil's bargain sort of balance, in that it's equally unfair both ways.

Ok your just roleplaying, nobody backs anyone u unless your in a private group setup..... just look at the amount of healing going on right now, that should tell you enuff on that subject.

You can talk out of the side of your mouth all you want to but what it comes down to is that an escort can not handle an alpha strike.

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Feds need to understand that their escorts will kill our ships faster than we can even save them with our makeshift sci ships. We don't just kill them because they are easy prey, we kill them because they are dangerous.

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Feds need to understand that their escorts will kill our ships faster than we can even save them with our makeshift sci ships. We don't just kill them because they are easy prey, we kill them because they are dangerous.

in higher levels escort class ships on BOTH sides get killed so fast its not funny.

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Feds need to understand that their escorts will kill our ships faster than we can even save them with our makeshift sci ships. We don't just kill them because they are easy prey, we kill them because they are dangerous.

But you have to understand that without MES, there will be almost no FED escorts in pvp :-) NOONE likes to die first, and be always the target...

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But you have to understand that without MES, there will be almost no FED escorts in pvp :-) NOONE likes to die first, and be always the target...

There is no reason to play an escort if you are waiting on respawn all the time.

90 percent of the time when you load into a pvp match you have klinks camping you for one thing, and another with all this klink praise of MES nerf you are going to see alot more science ships out there.

Anyone that was in beta knows what a science ship can do and then you add multiple and it gets really nasty, seeing how the debuffs and such stack with each ship.......

Just imagine 4 or so ships chain using Jam sensors, its going to be glorious.......

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Bring it on. MES is dead, long live the SCI ships.

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Yeah but the MES nerf affects lots of escorts players, wich basicaly wastin time, if they wanna pvp in escorts...MES was overpowered, now its useless....so maybe time to put it somewhere in the middle...

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Feds need to understand that their escorts will kill our ships faster than we can even save them with our makeshift sci ships. We don't just kill them because they are easy prey, we kill them because they are dangerous.

The Feds are not good at, or seemingly ignore, any downside Klingons have, because their so spoiled with positives and get everything handed to them.

In the end Klingons have more negatives going against them, and Feds have more positives. The hope is that cloak balances those out, but people will complain until cloak is nerfed to hell because they feel only they should have an advantage.

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The Feds are not good at, or seemingly ignore, any downside Klingons have, because their so spoiled with positives and get everything handed to them.

In the end Klingons have more negatives going against them, and Feds have more positives. The hope is that cloak balances those out, but people will complain until cloak is nerfed to hell because they feel only they should have an advantage.

Not like you can nerf cloak at all. Its pretty freakin basic as is.

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The Feds are not good at, or seemingly ignore, any downside Klingons have, because their so spoiled with positives and get everything handed to them.

In the end Klingons have more negatives going against them, and Feds have more positives. The hope is that cloak balances those out, but people will complain until cloak is nerfed to hell because they feel only they should have an advantage.

See your talking about the whine before you had the cheese, the reason the fed side seems to be ahead is becasue they are, the devs have not implemented all of the kling stuff. So until they do it will seem like that, klings are lacking options right now and gear. Once they do whatever it is they are going to do it should bring you guys up to par.

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See your talking about the whine before you ahd the cheese, the reason teh fed side seems to be ahead is becasue they are, the devs have no implemented all of the kling stuff. So until they do it will seem like that, klings are lacking options right now and gear. Once they do whatever it is they are going to do it should bring you guys up to par.


Thats a big assumption.

Tier 2 cruiser will fix many of the problems. All we need is other content to get items.

Sadly, this wont be coming anytime soon, so many of the current klingons will be in the upper tiers with good equipment that they've had to grind mercilessly for.

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See your talking about the whine before you ahd the cheese, the reason teh fed side seems to be ahead is becasue they are, the devs have no implemented all of the kling stuff. So until they do it will seem like that, klings are lacking options right now and gear. Once they do whatever it is they are going to do it should bring you guys up to par.

This is about more than gear sweetheart. This has to do with every ship being literally weaker, one of our ships missing at least on BO and weapon slot after T2 (BoP). No cruiser in T2. No science ship so not boost to heals or sensors. This is before we even get into the lack of content, these are weaknesses by design.

MES was effectively taking away the only advantage we had, while still leaving us with handicapped ships by design. How could that possibly be fair from a Klingon's point of view? Seriously.

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Just going off of what the devs said in closed and open beta about kling content.

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This is about more than gear sweetheart. This has to do with every ship being literally weaker, one of our ships missing at least on BO and weapon slot after T2 (BoP). No cruiser in T2. No science ship so not boost to heals or sensors. This is before we even get into the lack of content, these are weaknesses by design.

MES was effectively taking away the only advantage we had, while still leaving us with handicapped ships by design. How could that possibly be fair from a Klingon's point of view? Seriously.

Because....feds want cloak? That is the fed argument.

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without the ability to prevent escorts from being the first target killed every time, your essentially removing a fed class from the game.

They dont see it that way. But i guess when they will see only science ships around, they will finaly realize :-)

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Because....feds want cloak? That is the fed argument.

without the ability to prevent escorts from being the first target killed every time, your essentially removing a fed class from the game.

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Because....feds want cloak? That is the fed argument.

The nerf to MES for escorts is like taking away your battle cloak.... We were given a cloak type of ability and now it is useless. Which has pretty much made our dps class of ship useless now, ya we can still do dps but we wont live long enuff now to be able to use it.

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atleast before we had the option to wait and attack when we chose to not when we were forced to.

If your plan revolved around what was essentially a cloak granted to the wrong faction, it's no wonder you're having trouble. To excel on the Federation side, you need to understand that the correct time to attack is when you're grouped up with proper support and acting in concert. That is your primary combat strategy, and it's a strategy that's damn hard to break. You don't even need communication to pull it off; you simply form the laserball and insta-pop the poor ******* who decloaks first.

If you like the idea of slinking around and jumping on whatever opportunities present themselves, I suggest you defect. Until or unless the Rommies are introduced some day, there is only one cloaking faction in this game.

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If your plan revolved around what was essentially a cloak granted to the wrong faction, it's no wonder you're having trouble. To excel on the Federation side, you need to understand that the correct time to attack is when you're grouped up with proper support and acting in concert. That is your primary combat strategy, and it's a strategy that's damn hard to break. You don't even need communication to pull it off; you simply form the laserball and insta-pop the poor ******* who decloaks first.

If you like the idea of slinking around and jumping on whatever opportunities present themselves, I suggest you defect. Until or unless the Rommies are introduced some day, there is only one cloaking faction in this game.

no one has even mentioned the lazer ball. It's easy to break if you know how to do it. And no, I will not defect to another faction simply to be able to survive in a dps class ship

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no one has even mentioned the lazer ball. It's easy to break if you know how to do it. And no, I will not defect to another faction simply to be able to survive in a dps class ship

I'll say it again: the correct time to attack is when you are working together. There is no Federation cloak.

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The nerf to MES for escorts is like taking away your battle cloak.... We were given a cloak type of ability and now it is useless. Which has pretty much made our dps class of ship useless now, ya we can still do dps but we wont live long enuff now to be able to use it.


I'm going to roll up an escort alt on monday.


To be honest, since and escort.....ESCORTS stuff....you should be sticking with cruisers and other ships that can keep you alive. Other escorts will obviously help to draw fire and spread it out over the fleet while the cruisers and engineering teams help keep you in battle.

The sad truth is.....if you are getting mass focus fire...no matter what ship you are...its over.

How many times do I pop in my BOP under such an onslaught? All the time. Cloak doesn't really help when I have a stream of torps being fired up my arse.

Wheny ou use MES...your shields are up. Even if they KEPT MES as it is, but made it so your shields drop....we'd be seeing the same QQ.

You tested a skill in beta. It got changed. They'll find a happy medium.

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I'm going to roll up an escort alt on monday.


To be honest, since and escort.....ESCORTS stuff....you should be sticking with cruisers and other ships that can keep you alive. Other escorts will obviously help to draw fire and spread it out over the fleet while the cruisers and engineering teams help keep you in battle.

The sad truth is.....if you are getting mass focus fire...no matter what ship you are...its over.

How many times do I pop in my BOP under such an onslaught? All the time. Cloak doesn't really help when I have a stream of torps being fired up my arse.

Wheny ou use MES...your shields are up. Even if they KEPT MES as it is, but made it so your shields drop....we'd be seeing the same QQ.

You tested a skill in beta. It got changed. They'll find a happy medium.

It was never changed in beta and was never tested any other way. Now with MES we have no shields at all and have to turn it off to even fire. With maxed MES it pops off all the time, pvp and pve. Its utterly useless now.

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Mes wasn't over powered because it kept escorts alive (it was over powered for other reasons, such as capturing, fix that indead), and they don't need to change their tactics, it's the simple fact klings group on the one escort they find(even if their in the cruiser bubble, they LOOK for the escorts), if it's not there then that escort can decloak and take a few guys out, other wise they will see the respawn screen before they know what hit them, Stop attacking people about this skill, guys. MES needs work, or give escorts their damn evasive tanking -.-, and there is a fed cloak, they just use different methods aka (MES) jam sensors, anything that doesn't literally make them invisable to the eye from fields, etc.

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The change to MES was needed because it was broken. It was better than cloak without the disadvantages. And using a BO slot is not disadvantage enough since Klingon ships lost BO slots, consoles, hull strength, and more to make up for normal cloak.

So less QQ and learn to play.

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Indeed the change was needed, but something needs to be done with escorts or mes, ( I wouldn't mind losing shields or anything else as long as I can avoid a kling Alpha strike) it has nothing to do with qq'ing it's wanting to be able to play, period. And klingons could of used MES if they wanted instead so that's a poor excuse

It's sad that we even have to rely on one skill to actually do our damn job, I don't care if MES is destroyed and ripped from the game, something needs to be done with escorts because MES was the only thing that let us work.

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Yes, change to MES was needed....destroying its viabilty, wasnt.

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can a kling player point on some disadvantages they got ?
i cant find some... cloak, no cooldown on weapons or shield after decloak, (bop) battlecloak, hull and shields like an escort (think its not a really great difference between both).. is that what you called "fair" ????
sure MES was OP in beta and thats not ok , otherwise fed escort ships have no chance of survival , they got focused by every cloaked kling ship and killed within seconds.. so there is no extrem dps ship on fed side anymore...

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Yes Klingons could use it too but that is not the point.

My point is the sacrifice Klingon ships make for cloak is much higher than any trade-off for MES which was a stronger power. Every thread complaining about PvP balance invariably devolves to complaints about play with cloak. There is no reason MES should have been like it was.

And yes there is too much QQ for a power which everyone admits needed the nerf.

An easy bone for any escort class ship (on both sides) would be to add evasion to them when they are moving proportional to their speed -- sort of like a passive evasive manuevers buff. This would be much more in accord with the goals of that ship class anyway.

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The change to MES was needed because it was broken. It was better than cloak without the disadvantages.

Which both sides could have. Despite all the talk from the KDF side it was more of a benefit to BoP players who could use it to spring their attack then battle cloak to get away.

And using a BO slot is not disadvantage enough since Klingon ships lost BO slots, consoles, hull strength, and more to make up for normal cloak.

So less QQ and learn to play.

The reason BoP gets less slots is that they are UNIVERSAL which is a huge boost and you can tailor your BOFF exactly as you would like.

Less hull strength is only marginal as all klingon ships can choose the fight they wish to join, and can all uncloak with all their cannons at optimal range. The small decrease in hull strength is no where near equal to the additional HUGE damage the uncloaking ships can dish out before the target can respond. You have the option of jumping from cloak, jamming sensors and having your way with them for almost 10 secs before they can respond and usually they are dead. Its almosty like wow stun locking if you hoose lots of science powers. I Know ive done this to Fed in my T2 BoP. The difference in usefullness is alot higher than you would think.

You cant use solution to the escort problem that REQUIRE HIGH LEVEL ORGANISATION to justify. If the game isnt balanced for the AVERAGE player then it requires a fix.

Im all for even reintroducing the battlecloak for the starter BoP as well, i cant see the justification for not having battlecloak universal for all BoPs

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can a kling player point on some disadvantages they got ?
i cant find some... cloak, no cooldown on weapons or shield after decloak, (bop) battlecloak, hull and shields like an escort (think its not a really great difference between both).. is that what you called "fair" ????
sure MES was OP in beta and thats not ok , otherwise fed escort ships have no chance of survival , they got focused by every cloaked kling ship and killed within seconds.. so there is no extrem dps ship on fed side anymore...

I hope everyone reads this atleast, because THIS is the problem. The trolls just telling us to change our tactics and such obviously have no idea what's really going on, and those that thought it was unfair that feds use it obviously never looked at the power store as a kling. So what I'm trying to say is, Cryptic, what's your next move :D? Hopefully whatever it is lets us DPS ships actually do DPS

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Edit: Whoops double post, damn site, lol.

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This is about more than gear sweetheart. This has to do with every ship being literally weaker, one of our ships missing at least on BO and weapon slot after T2 (BoP). No cruiser in T2. No science ship so not boost to heals or sensors. This is before we even get into the lack of content, these are weaknesses by design.

MES was effectively taking away the only advantage we had, while still leaving us with handicapped ships by design. How could that possibly be fair from a Klingon's point of view? Seriously.

You can't be serious about the BoP being a disadvantage.

Losing one ensign skill is no big deal.
Losing a rear weapon slot on an escort type is again no big deal.

Getting a cloaking device is big.
Getting a battle cloak is bigger.
Being able to choose BO career slots is huge.

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I for one greatly welcome this change, the skill was terribly OP before. However, people should remember that while it needed to be nerfed, the skill is broken at the moment. I suggest we all reserve final judgment until the skills actually working as intended.


MES down, Reverse Shield Polarity next! :D

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I'm going to roll up an escort alt on monday.


To be honest, since and escort.....ESCORTS stuff....you should be sticking with cruisers and other ships that can keep you alive. Other escorts will obviously help to draw fire and spread it out over the fleet while the cruisers and engineering teams help keep you in battle.

The sad truth is.....if you are getting mass focus fire...no matter what ship you are...its over.

How many times do I pop in my BOP under such an onslaught? All the time. Cloak doesn't really help when I have a stream of torps being fired up my arse.

Wheny ou use MES...your shields are up. Even if they KEPT MES as it is, but made it so your shields drop....we'd be seeing the same QQ.

You tested a skill in beta. It got changed. They'll find a happy medium.

battle cloak is used to slip away from a battle when no one is looking, mes and cloak are to keep you from getting oneshotted in a nasty ambush.

and no, cruisers getting mass focus fire can survive a stupid long time in higher teirs on both sides.

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Mes wasn't over powered because it kept escorts alive (it was over powered for other reasons, such as capturing, fix that indead), and they don't need to change their tactics, it's the simple fact klings group on the one escort they find(even if their in the cruiser bubble, they LOOK for the escorts), if it's not there then that escort can decloak and take a few guys out, other wise they will see the respawn screen before they know what hit them, Stop attacking people about this skill, guys. MES needs work, or give escorts their damn evasive tanking -.-, and there is a fed cloak, they just use different methods aka (MES) jam sensors, anything that doesn't literally make them invisable to the eye from fields, etc.

Within the time a raptor can kill a cruiser, an escort can easily kill a raptor.

Of course theyre going to aim for the escorts first.

Later on damage scales up faster than surivability (except for those 100% unkillable things like RSP) so killing the escorts first is pretty much the only way to win for either side.

Bcruisers and cruisers die before they can turn, sci ships use a few ridiculous CC abilities but die pretty quick as well, and escorts just blow everyone up in a couple barrages.

You can however make someone near-impossible to kill if you max shields and use extend shields on them. 900+ shield refill per pulse for just the Mk1 version, then some shield resists. If you want to play a bcruiser (aside from k'tinga, their turn rate is just barely enough to use cannons effectively) or cruiser exclusively in PvP, your going to be a healer, or your going to be a liability. :P

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Escorts are not a viable class now with the changes to MES. They can not handle an alpha strike which they will get everytime now with teh changes to MES.

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Now that MES is nerfed, maybe Fed players will learn to use teamwork to win, the same way Klingons had to? There are a ton of abilities that will help that little escort's survivability. Science team, Engineering team, extend shields, etc.

You know what? Those work. You have any idea how many times I used those abilities during beta, playing a Klingon? And when I moved to the battle cruiser, I was doing it even more.

A BOP, when supported, can tank long enough to shift the momentum. I've done it, I've helped others do it. And if a BOP can do it, escorts certainly can.

And even still, I saw plenty of times where we wiped out the escorts in the opening minute only to get stalled by the cruisers and science ships. And then the escorts came back while we were focused on the cruisers and wiped us out. They could eventually win, despite the escorts being so fragile.

If you are afraid to die, you picked the wrong class of ship. But one death is not even remotely the same as a match loss. Deal with it, make it work. Its possible, it happened all the time in beta. Of course your cruisers spent more time spamming RSP on themselves in beta, so I certainly understand that teamwork isn't something the Feds have learned yet.

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MES down, Reverse Shield Polarity next! :D

RSP just needs a GCD so you cant chain 5 of them and photonic officer.

That and it needs to have something added that makes ranking up the related skill actually do something for it, its invincibility to energy weapons without any points in it at Mk1.

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Of course that's why they kill escorts first, that's not the problem, I expect them to, other wise they'd go pop just as fast. The problem is escorts have NO defense against being the first to pop now, of course if MeS finds that " happy medium" then all will be well, but honestly I'd rather have an escort ship that does fine without it, but without it there isn't much of a defense against the 5 man cloaked klings. So they can either fix the weaker ships some how, or just put MES's stats at a cozy spot so if people are actually looking for a MES'd ship, they'd find it.

@FOxrocks you played a kling, it's different, those skills won't help you if every klingon is attacking that escort, and they will, it's been said by many players in this thread alone. Team work won't help you if you die before your team knows where they (the klings) are. Escorts are pratically forced to take care of themselves, and that's what MES helped with...

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Glad its gone. Better to have the Klings cloak, and the feds Ball it up

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Now that MES is nerfed, maybe Fed players will learn to use teamwork to win, the same way Klingons had to? There are a ton of abilities that will help that little escort's survivability. Science team, Engineering team, extend shields, etc.

You know what? Those work. You have any idea how many times I used those abilities during beta, playing a Klingon? And when I moved to the battle cruiser, I was doing it even more.

A BOP, when supported, can tank long enough to shift the momentum. I've done it, I've helped others do it. And if a BOP can do it, escorts certainly can.

And even still, I saw plenty of times where we wiped out the escorts in the opening minute only to get stalled by the cruisers and science ships. And then the escorts came back while we were focused on the cruisers and wiped us out. They could eventually win, despite the escorts being so fragile.

If you are afraid to die, you picked the wrong class of ship. But one death is not even remotely the same as a match loss. Deal with it, make it work. Its possible, it happened all the time in beta. Of course your cruisers spent more time spamming RSP on themselves in beta, so I certainly understand that teamwork isn't something the Feds have learned yet.

Its not about team work, MES gives an escort the ability to NOT get alpha striked EVERYTIME, which will happen now. Escorts have no hull what so ever and they do not last. So it pretty much gives klings the win ability since they dont have to fear any hiding dps.

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@FOxrocks you played a kling, it's different, those skills won't help you if every klingon is attacking that escort, and they will, it's been said by many kling players in this thread alone. Team work won't help you if you die before your team knows where they (the klings) are.

This isn't a teamwork issue as much as it is a complete FAILURE on Cryptic's part not having autogrouping on entry to the PvP match (grouped players can see their group mates from any distance) and also not having faction only chat channels.

Both sides use focus fire so even though it sucks when everyone on the other team targets you, that's the game currently.

With Feds it's usually "tab target" and "MOAR SPACEBAR Mr. Worf ... MOAR SPACEBAR!".

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I believe we need to set a few standards real quick:
1. MES and battle cloak have 2 functionally different uses, one is used for escaping battles, the other is used to prevent being the target of ambushes.
2. At higher levels the only skill that can keep you alive when being focus fired out the ass is RSP.
3. escorts are very squishy, and will be priority targeted nearly 100% of the time.
4. The whole L2P issue needs to be dropped.

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This isn't a teamwork issue as much as it is a complete FAILURE on Cryptic's part not having autogrouping on entry to the PvP match (grouped players can see their group mates from any distance) and also not having faction only chat channels.

if you don't group the team at the beginning then its your fault for failing to do so, theres a reason you start in the same spot at the very beginning.

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This isn't a teamwork issue as much as it is a complete FAILURE on Cryptic's part not having autogrouping on entry to the PvP match (grouped players can see their group mates from any distance) and also not having faction only chat channels.


Exactly it isn't a teamwork issue, but it's also not because of auto joining (though that would be nice), that won't solve the problem, it's the problem of escorts being to weak or to VIP to the klings, only way to fix that is either with MES, or change the ships themselves.

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This isn't a teamwork issue as much as it is a complete FAILURE on Cryptic's part not having autogrouping on entry to the PvP match (grouped players can see their group mates from any distance) and also not having faction only chat channels.

It still does not matter if you group or not with an escort and we should not be forced to group at all. Escorts drop in a matter of seconds with 4 bops on them and then the bops run and cloak. Nothing a group mate could do.

Not only that you always have some jack head camping the respawn points, with MES it was nice to be able to pop it and not get gnaked while you were waiting to even be able to attack back.

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Of course that's why they kill escorts first, that's not the problem, I expect them to, other wise they'd go pop just as fast. The problem is escorts have NO defense against being the first to pop now, of course if MeS finds that " happy medium" then all will be well, but honestly I'd rather have an escort ship that does fine without it, but without it there isn't much of a defense against the 5 man cloaked klings. So they can either fix the weaker ships some how, or just put MES's stats at a cozy spot so if people are actually looking for a MES'd ship, they'd find it.
@FOxrocks you played a kling, it's different, those skills won't help you if every klingon is attacking that escort, and they will, it's been said by many kling players in this thread alone. Team work won't help you if you die before your team knows where they (the klings) are.

Cruiser with extend shield and maxed shield power levels, its almost as good as RSP on a much shorter cooldown, lasts just as long too. Downside is it cant be used on yourself. If you have a sci ship they actually have to start firing from outside 5km, which halves incoming damage, and allows time for extend to be used before they get hit with a barrage and let a half-competent escort driver to start popping defenses and evading.

Any cannon worth using has a 45 degree firing angle, which actually isnt all that hard to avoid if they get within 5km. I did a few KvK matches in T2 and T3 and sitting uncloaked for a team of 5 escorts to try and jump me actually wasnt even close to suicide unless I was talking to someone in /tell.

They do however need to buff things like release warp plasma so that they hit a wider area and persist, I think that was the original idea... but eh, it seems like they decided it wasnt worth it. Its only usable on cruisers and the area is waaaay too small for the higher level cruisers that can use it. (it releases a snare/turn speed reducer than also disables cloak, currently its only a small PbAoE you have to run people over with)


2. At higher levels the only skill that can keep you alive when being focus fired out the ass is RSP.


Once you hit T4 and people have bothered to spend skillpoints into the final weapon skills, this applies to every ship type, and replace focus fired to "one escort of any type."

Was using a 75% resist debuff from scanner sweep on my raptor and it pretty much doubled my damage for short periods of time. 10k torps and 2k rapid fire shots, my only problem with MES was that if I used 100% Aux and scanner sweep I would both:

a. Exit stealth
b. Only be able to see an escort with no aux boost and only Mk1 MES at 1-2km (thats with more than +700 perception or w/e it was at)

The only way to bring a klingon ships cloak up to MES levels before was... to get MES, which basically meant all the downsides of being a klingon but still wasting a slot for MES, since it makes cloak look like garbage. You would usually find at least 2 klingons per match using MES, and its a redundant ability, kinda speaks to how ridiculous it was before.

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Now that MES is nerfed, maybe Fed players will learn to use teamwork to win, the same way Klingons had to? There are a ton of abilities that will help that little escort's survivability. Science team, Engineering team, extend shields, etc. .

just kidding ? ....
thats not a problem of teamwork.... what can a team do for an escort which is under focus fire of 4-5 decloaking kling ships ? NOTHING... the escort is dead before any fed ship recognzie which target is under fire. also with survival abilites.. no kling ship needs to use a survival abilite in the same time.. just their dps skills. but thats the point of kling fairness..
i dont want the old MES back thats too OP , just flying 1km in front of a kling ship without beeing recognized.. but escort ships need some skills to prevent them beeing the first strike target all the time without a chance to do anything... whats about a cloak change for kling ships , giving them a cooldown on their weapons and shields after decloaking. ???? or a cooldown on their dps skills for few secs after decloak.

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just kidding ? ....
thats not a problem of teamwork.... what can a team do for an escort which is under focus fire of 4-5 decloaking kling ships ? NOTHING... the escort is dead before any fed ship recognzie which target is under fire. also with survival abilites.. no kling ship needs to use a survival abilite in the same time.. just their dps skills. but thats the point of kling fairness..
it's a reflex thing, also vent helps extremely well in situations like this.

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It still does not matter if you group or not with an escort and we should not be forced to group at all. .

You are never forced to group. But you shouldn't expect to win if you aren't and the other side is. Or are you implying that escorts should just be able to Rambo in all by themselves without fear of dying and pwn face?

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it's a reflex thing, also vent helps extremely well in situations like this.

Roll an escort right now and see what happens also we should not have to have any kind of vent or anything else to be able to play a certain class. Escort do not survive at all without MES from the start.

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just kidding ? ....
thats not a problem of teamwork.... what can a team do for an escort which is under focus fire of 4-5 decloaking kling ships ? NOTHING... the escort is dead before any fed ship recognzie which target is under fire. also with survival abilites.. no kling ship needs to use a survival abilite in the same time.. just their dps skills. but thats the point of kling fairness..
i dont want the old MES back thats too OP , just flying 1km in front of a kling ship without beeing recognized.. but escort ships need some skills to prevent them beeing the first strike target all the time without a chance to do anything... whats about a cloak change for kling ships , giving them a cooldown on their weapons and shields after decloaking. ???? or a cooldown on their dps skills for few secs after decloak.

Problem is we're dead in a couple of seconds. Any delay at all and 1 or 2 BoP's would be dead before the first volley. Average engagement for an organized group is 4 or 5 seconds then we run and recloak.

Regardless of MES, fed escorts were never effective in PVP at later tiers. The best Fed groups were 5 Science or 3 Cruisers and 2 Science spider tanking.

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Problem is we're dead in a couple of seconds. Any delay at all and 1 or 2 BoP's would be dead before the first volley. Average engagement for an organized group is 4 or 5 seconds then we run and recloak.

Regardless of MES, fed escorts were never effective in PVP at later tiers. The best Fed groups were 5 Science or 3 Cruisers and 2 Science spider tanking.

I beg to differ, my defiant was insane at tier 4

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just kidding ? ....
thats not a problem of teamwork.... what can a team do for an escort which is under focus fire of 4-5 decloaking kling ships ? NOTHING... the escort is dead before any fed ship recognzie which target is under fire. also with survival abilites.. no kling ship needs to use a survival abilite in the same time.. just their dps skills. but thats the point of kling fairness..
i dont want the old MES back thats too OP , just flying 1km in front of a kling ship without beeing recognized.. but escort ships need some skills to prevent them beeing the first strike target all the time without a chance to do anything... whats about a cloak change for kling ships , giving them a cooldown on their weapons and shields after decloaking. ???? or a cooldown on their dps skills for few secs after decloak.

Nobody reacts quickly enough to use RSP to stop 4 guys FFing them... hmmm, oh wait, pretty much every escort in T4 would pop RSP before the cannon fire would reach them.

Yea, pretty much every fight came down to how long you could make yourself invincible to the other person then first to run out dies in 5 seconds.

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You are never forced to group. But you shouldn't expect to win if you aren't and the other side is. Or are you implying that escorts should just be able to Rambo in all by themselves without fear of dying and pwn face?

It was this attitude that was killing Klingons early in beta. Funny how we had to learn not to Rambo, but now that Feds actually HAVE to learn how to team to take out any competent, war hardened Klingon groups, WE are over powered? Or MES is under powered?

You guys just want the best of both worlds, without any of the drawbacks of the other. Let's be honest here. I don't buy this "escorts can't survive" bullcrap because I've seen otherwise in combat. So try something different.

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it's a reflex thing, also vent helps extremely well in situations like this.

how should a scream in vent help the player of the escort ship before pressing the release button ? ....

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It was this attitude that was killing Klingons early in beta. Funny how we had to learn not to Rambo, but now that Feds actually HAVE to learn how to team to take out any competent, war hardened Klingon groups, WE are over powered? Or MES is under powered?

You guys just want the best of both worlds, without any of the drawbacks of the other. Let's be honest here. I don't buy this "escorts can't survive" bullcrap because I've seen otherwise in combat. So try something different.

Almost noone here is complaing that "escorts can't survive", all people say is that "escorts cant survive alpha strike, and have no way to prevent it" wich will leads only to higher ratio of OP science ships in pvp.

Now when random escort lands in pvp, and dies, rage quits, and leaves his team 4vs5, so to loose. If it happens alot, more people will flock to new FvF games, and arrogant klingons like you, can happily play KvK hiding games, or be stuck in KvF queles forever. Now thats great future, wich awaits us..NOT :(

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I beg to differ, my defiant was insane at tier 4

I'm hoping many Feds share your opinion, it will make pvp at tier 4 and 5 much quicker.

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Almost noone here is complaing that "escorts can't survive", all people say is that "escorts cant survive alpha strike, and have no way to prevent it" wich will leads only to higher ratio of OP science ships in pvp.

Now when random escort lands in pvp, and dies, rage quits, and leaves his team 4vs5, so to loose. If it happens alot, more people will flock to new FvF games, and arrogant klingons like you, can happily play KvK hiding games, or be stuck in KvF queles forever. Now thats great future, wich awaits us..NOT :(

Science ships are 'OP' in T2 and maybe T3 1v1, T4 your only conern is making sure your barrage hits them before their viral matrix hits you. Whats sad is when they hit you with it and somehow you dont die because theyre the only person shooting you and them sitting at 100% means not enough firepower to pop a covariant. 15s+ hold and not a single one of those 2-3 escorts is paying enough attention to pop me with a HYT and a few cannon shots.

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Nobody reacts quickly enough to use RSP to stop 4 guys FFing them... hmmm, oh wait, pretty much every escort in T4 would pop RSP before the cannon fire would reach them.

Yea, pretty much every fight came down to how long you could make yourself invincible to the other person then first to run out dies in 5 seconds.

thats normal , the big point is that kling ships can decide how and when they attack our fed ships (thats ok), but its not fair that escort ships must use their surival abilites (like RSP) instant on the first attack while kling ships just use their dps skills to kill 1-2 escorts and then (bop) escape from fight.. came back and support their cruisers and raptors against the other non-dps fed ships... and this goes on and on during the whole pvp fight..

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It was this attitude that was killing Klingons early in beta. Funny how we had to learn not to Rambo, but now that Feds actually HAVE to learn how to team to take out any competent, war hardened Klingon groups, WE are over powered? Or MES is under powered?

You guys just want the best of both worlds, without any of the drawbacks of the other. Let's be honest here. I don't buy this "escorts can't survive" bullcrap because I've seen otherwise in combat. So try something different.

It has nothing to do with being rambo, only idiots did that, and having MES didn't mean we were playing like rambo either, ( stuck with my team always) it meant we were hiding in our fox holes waiting for you to pop your head out first. And yes RSP seems to be the other option, and having pre-mades with a dedicated cruiser/science to use it or other buffs on you. It has nothing to do with learning how to play, incompetence, teamwork ,or who's over powered. it's the fact that They don't survive alpha strikes without outside assistance, RSP, or MES Best of both worlds? Feds are supposed to have any type of skill that takes them off the radar, just no cloaking devices.

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Science ships are 'OP' in T2 and maybe T3 1v1, T4 your only conern is making sure your barrage hits them before their viral matrix hits you. Whats sad is when they hit you with it and somehow you dont die because theyre the only person shooting you and them sitting at 100% means not enough firepower to pop a covariant. 15s+ hold and not a single one of those 2-3 escorts is paying enough attention to pop me with a HYT and a few cannon shots.

You may be very right, but the problem is..if you gonna use some ship class, you propably spec for it from the beginning. Now if we make escorts suck in lower tiers, noone will spec for them, thus noone will play them. I couldnt care less about who whines about wich, what is overpowered, and what isnt...my only concern is, that the MES change, could "lock" one ship class out of pvp...and that would be boring :-)

And my second concern is, that with many such "flaws" alot of people will flock to FvF games, instead KvF, thus increasing waiting times...thats also something i wouldnt like to see :-/ Especialy with alot of arrogant leet attitude from klingons in forums, wich could very much split the community a bit...

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thats normal , the big point is that kling ships can decide how and when they attack our fed ships (thats ok), but its not fair that escort ships must use their surival abilites (like RSP) instant on the first attack while kling ships just use their dps skills to kill 1-2 escorts and then (bop) escape from fight.. came back and support their cruisers and raptors against the other non-dps fed ships... and this goes on and on during the whole pvp fight..

A single HYT Mk1 pops a BoP trying to do that in the higher levels, you know... where klingon ship choices are actually wide enough to act as some semblance of a team.

Well, technically a single HYT MkII after you use self-buffs. They have 7k less hull than a defiant in T4, a single Mk1 would require using a maxed-out scanner sweep, which disables their cloak anyway.

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Almost noone here is complaing that "escorts can't survive", all people say is that "escorts cant survive alpha strike, and have no way to prevent it" wich will leads only to higher ratio of OP science ships in pvp.

Now when random escort lands in pvp, and dies, rage quits, and leaves his team 4vs5, so to loose. If it happens alot, more people will flock to new FvF games, and arrogant klingons like you, can happily play KvK hiding games, or be stuck in KvF queles forever. Now thats great future, wich awaits us..NOT :(

OH please, Klingons during beta were rage quitting the over powered Fed crap all the time, especially when there weren't any escorts to target. I am actually not an arrogant person, but I also don't have patience for nonsense, conjecture, or presuppositions that have no bearing on reality.

Escorts can survive an alpha strike by 5 people, if I could do the same in my BoP. That's all there is to say on the matter. With autofire/spacebar you can hit someone as soon as they drop cloak so it's not even much of a surprise. As an escort if you see phasers you better be hitting your defense and hugging a cruiser/science ship. I've seen tactics that work, it's just that Feds want their easy mode MES back. instead of having to use support, or forming balanced groups. A team of BoP's means Klingons lose for example.

I'm not trying to be arrogant. I just won't buy any of these excuses to give you guys an over powered skill back, unless you guys bring be some facts, or evidence.


Escorts will always be targeted first, just like BoPs will always be targeted first (since they're even weaker). As a BoP pilot I thought of ways to counter that, and so should escorts. MES wasn't that effective eventually. I mean all we had to do was get 1-2 cruisers to decloak hitting the science ships or cruisers, Escorts would pop on top of them, then BoP's would pop on top of the designated escort guy who just got out of MES.

And with the way Klingons get treated like second class citizens by the community here, and by the Devs, can you blame me for having a bit of an attitude about Feds complaining about US having an advantage? Klingons have to fight hard to keep their side heard. Otherwise we'd be cannon fodder for Feds with some of the suggestions/QQ going on here.

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Ok your just roleplaying, nobody backs anyone u unless your in a private group setup..... just look at the amount of healing going on right now, that should tell you enuff on that subject.

You can talk out of the side of your mouth all you want to but what it comes down to is that an escort can not handle an alpha strike.

There is no 'I' in team. Because your team does not co-ordinate is your problem. Unfortunately, there is nothing in-game to correct this given the awkward chat options, but there ARE a number of 3rd party alternatives.

MES was designed to MASK the energy signature, not cloak it. It was intended that it would conceal your detection until an opponent moved in closer and then gradually, as the range dropped, you would appear on the HUD. As it works now, MES works to conceal you even if an opponent is sitting right on top of you. Even cloaked ships are detected by normals (ie non-science) within 2-3 km. When cloaked those same ships also have no shields, so when detected and fired on it is ALL hull damage. MES keep their shields up. I have yet to observe the timer actually work for MES as I have been in PvP matches where the Feds had one goat tethered and the rest of the 5 all MES'd for 5 minutes or more. Yup. Running completely as intended there. NOT.

Your attempts to couch this thread as some attempt to argue that MES is critical to the 'defensiveness' of the escort is in itself a sham. I am a klink. I use cloak and know what cloak is. It is an OFFENSIVE weapon. If you were worried about the defensiveness of the escort you would be more concerned about hull and shield strength/buffs. Your ire over losing the over-powered MES and coaching your arguments in the interests of play balance, given your statement above, seem to boil down to, I want the big gun AND be able to come out of fights only with scratches, so quit raining on my parade. If you want your escort to survive an alpha strike then I have a suggestion; fly a science ship or join the klinks who have a cloak on their ship BY DESIGN.

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Well, we all knew this was coming. Feds don't get cloak. That's been said by the devs over and over.

We warned the fedrats to enjoy the OP ability while they had it, because it was definitely changing.

The fight is between one well equipped and well balanced force against another force who is weaker and less well equipped but has a potentially unfair advantage. It's deliberately unfair both ways.

Winning the fight entails making sure that your unfair advantage is the one that determines the outcome.

Lol you warned us this coming from the same guy who in ob stated that he wanted it to be nerfed .Was also the guy who stated that he wtf pawned all feddies as well lol keep talking.

Once again As people seem to forget entirely here that one side of PVP can hide completely and they didn't want anyone to counter it . They got there way . Lets see what they cry about next. Maybe all the feds should just fly around in tier 1 Miranda's and let the turtlheads just shoot at them so they can level .Oh wait thats already being done sorry .

As well the whole argument is stating that the WHOLE ENTIRE FED SIDE USED MES what a crock of bs .And that mes needed to be nerfed wait wait oh thats right you have a whole entire race that has cloaked ships god I'm sorry what was I thinking.

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SpaghettiMonster, Im not aguing a single word what you said, except your anti-fed attitude, wich really stinks sometimes ;) but i have the feelings you dont care about pvp in larger picture as i do. Ah to hell with it..time will shown, who was right.

P.S. just for the record, i aint buying the "cloak is weak" crap either, just because i have seen a flawless use of it (kinda using your own words about escorts here)...

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This isn't a turn based game, people. Klingons don't all instantly decloak at the same time. Feds don't have to wait till the escorts are dead to react and retaliate. They are starting to focus fire on some Klingon target if they have any coordination, while protecting the escort with extend shields or science team or both.

Escorts are extremely deadly. Why do you think Klingons target them first? Klingons may get the first strike, but Feds know who Klingons will strike and who they will ignore.

Also, tier 4 escorts are monsters as people have said. They obliterate even battle cruisers easily if the BC pilot is slow to react.

Wait till FvF gets here and people complain escorts are overpowered.

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With the changes to MES, escorts are not a viable choice for pvp anymore. MES pops so fast now, even maxed out its useless. Escorts have no option for suprise anymore and are being focus fired down in seconds.

Your not serious are you? Us Klingons have no surprise element with all you auto targeting Fedrats. We are fired upon by everyone in your balls of doom before we can even fire a shot. What surprise is that? This skill your complaining about was a better cloak than us who are supposed to be cloakers even had. And it was working much different than the description. Welcome to the world of being like us Klingons, your escorts are about equal to our birds of prey. I think you guys are basically only complaining because we target you guys first when beginning our attack waves, only because to take on Cruisers or Sci Ships first only end up in tragedy for us. You guys whined and got us nerfed, guess what, now it's your turn, lol.

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OH please, Klingons during beta were rage quitting the over powered Fed crap all the time, especially when there weren't any escorts to target. I am actually not an arrogant person, but I also don't have patience for nonsense, conjecture, or presuppositions that have no bearing on reality.

Escorts can survive an alpha strike by 5 people, if I could do the same in my BoP. That's all there is to say on the matter. With autofire/spacebar you can hit someone as soon as they drop cloak so it's not even much of a surprise. As an escort if you see phasers you better be hitting your defense and hugging a cruiser/science ship. I've seen tactics that work, it's just that Feds want their easy mode MES back. instead of having to use support, or forming balanced groups. A team of BoP's means Klingons lose for example.

I'm not trying to be arrogant. I just won't buy any of these excuses to give you guys an over powered skill back, unless you guys bring be some facts, or evidence.


Escorts will always be targeted first, just like BoPs will always be targeted first (since they're even weaker). As a BoP pilot I thought of ways to counter that, and so should escorts. MES wasn't that effective eventually. I mean all we had to do was get 1-2 cruisers to decloak hitting the science ships or cruisers, Escorts would pop on top of them, then BoP's would pop on top of the designated escort guy who just got out of MES.

And with the way Klingons get treated like second class citizens by the community here, and by the Devs, can you blame me for having a bit of an attitude about Feds complaining about US having an advantage? Klingons have to fight hard to keep their side heard. Otherwise we'd be cannon fodder for Feds with some of the suggestions/QQ going on here.

Must be hard to fight while unseen .

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Must be hard to fight while unseen .

It is. Our weapons don't work while cloaked. :)

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Must be hard to fight while unseen .

It most certainly is when your in a BoP and all you see to target is Cruisers and Sci ships. Thats not even close to a fair fight.

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SpaghettiMonster, Im not aguing a single word what you said, except your anti-fed attitude, wich really stinks sometimes ;) but i have the feelings you dont care about pvp in larger picture as i do. Ah to hell with it..time will shown, who was right.

P.S. just for the record, i aint buying the "cloak is weak" crap either, just because i have seen a flawless use of it (kinda using your own words about escorts here)...

Attacking me as a person instead of attacking my argument is called argumentum ad-hominem. So I'll just assume you can't counter anything I've said, or bring up any useful thought on the matter. Meaning I was right, and you were wrong, and can't argue your way out of it rationally.

Hopefully someone with more intellectual honesty will pick up this conversation.

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Ahh my point exactly then . you want to be able to have the cake and eat it too . its an experince to have someone fighting you that you cant see isnt it .

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actually the DEVS originally said that MES wasnt working as intended.

It wasnt supposed to be the UBER cloak feds were abusing in OB. Hence why, and its a little buggy still, it got changed to what it was supposed to be like, and yet it still needs to be changed according to the DEVS.

So feds just need to suck it up and stay in their FED balls as per usual.


Besides do you really want the HIT and RUN tactics a BoP can do using both MES and Battle Cloak. I mean we can use MES to fly to you. Open up on you with full force and Battle Cloak in a split second of pulling the trigger since we dont have to wait for Battle Cloak to come off cooldown ???

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Attacking me as a person instead of attacking my argument is called argumentum ad-hominem. So I'll just assume you can't counter anything I've said, or bring up any useful thought on the matter. Meaning I was right, and you were wrong, and can't argue your way out of it rationally.

Hopefully someone with more intellectual honesty will pick up this conversation.

Where did i attack you personaly ? It wasnt meant to...im just saying, your argumenting with "i have seen an escort doing that"..is kinda weak, and says nothing. But we both compare apple with oranges, and i dont call the opposite faction (fed)rats...

So i end arguing with you klingondonkeys about this issue, as clearly there is no desire to create a balanced pvp enviroment. And everyone just wants the best for his side ;)

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It most certainly is when your in a BoP and all you see to target is Cruisers and Sci ships. Thats not even close to a fair fight.

oh just send in a t3 cruiser to go in first and if all feds are as dumb as you give them credit for you won't be targeted at all :p

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oh just send in a t3 cruiser to go in first and if all feds are as dumb as you give them credit for you won't be targeted at all :p

Sshhhh, you wil lbe stoned to death, for that argument. Feds see through every cloak, they insta nuke every klingon ship with beams of dooms, and cloaking device is absolutely useless piece of equipment, giving no advantage at all.

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Lol you warned us this coming from the same guy who in ob stated that he wanted it to be nerfed .Was also the guy who stated that he wtf pawned all feddies as well lol keep talking.

Once again As people seem to forget entirely here that one side of PVP can hide completely and they didn't want anyone to counter it . They got there way . Lets see what they cry about next. Maybe all the feds should just fly around in tier 1 Miranda's and let the turtlheads just shoot at them so they can level .Oh wait thats already being done sorry .

As well the whole argument is stating that the WHOLE ENTIRE FED SIDE USED MES what a crock of bs .And that mes needed to be nerfed wait wait oh thats right you have a whole entire race that has cloaked ships god I'm sorry what was I thinking.

From what I can tell, you are just validating everything I said, although you are taking things out of context and either didn't understand or are deliberately attempting to misrepresent me.

First yes, it needed to be nerfed and I said all along that it was going to be nerfed - so we agree about that.

I don't know what you are referring to about my making claims about pvp. You'll have to show me a quote or a link to the topic.

I can see that you are upset.

All I have ever posted about mes was that it was OP and inappropriate for feds to have, based on the developer position that feds would not have cloak and that it would most certainly be nerfed. I warned everyone who was denying it not to get too cozy or base their strategies on it. Good advice that has obviously not been followed, based on the antagonism we see here.

I've also shared how I employed MES as an attacker. That's not me claiming to pwn, it's just a technical description of the powers i use and the sequence I use them in.

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Where did i attack you personaly ? It wasnt meant to...im just saying, your argumenting with "i have seen an escort doing that"..is kinda weak, and says nothing. But we both compare apple with oranges, and i dont call the opposite faction (fed)rats...

So i end arguing with you klingondonkeys about this issue, as clearly there is no desire to create a balanced pvp enviroment. And everyone just wants the best for his side ;)

You cant balance skill & teamwork. If Feds are fighting a KDF PUG you clean up, if you're in a PUG fighting a premade KDF team you lose. Two organized teams vs each other and it's anyone's game.

If you're not on a team dont expect to win.

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This isn't a turn based game, people. Klingons don't all instantly decloak at the same time. Feds don't have to wait till the escorts are dead to react and retaliate. They are starting to focus fire on some Klingon target if they have any coordination, while protecting the escort with extend shields or science team or both.

Escorts are extremely deadly. Why do you think Klingons target them first? Klingons may get the first strike, but Feds know who Klingons will strike and who they will ignore.

Also, tier 4 escorts are monsters as people have said. They obliterate even battle cruisers easily if the BC pilot is slow to react.

Wait till FvF gets here and people complain escorts are overpowered.

with FvF , kling will have to play their pvp battles alone :) must be boring - 10 kling players sneaking arround :D

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You cant balance skill & teamwork. If Feds are fighting a KDF PUG you clean up, if you're in a PUG fighting a premade team you lose. Two organized teams vs each other it's anyone's game.

If you're not on a team dont expect to win.

Thats what not im talking about balance in overall pvp. Under balance i mean that every ship class is viable, every build has its uses, every ability has roughly same value as another on the same tier.

I dont want to turn MES at how it was (i actualy supported its nerf..oh the irony), but i want it to be a defensive tool, wich can "hide" the ship to the same distance, on wich a science ship can detect cloaked ships...thats alll...

Just notice, i aint saying anyone is overpowered, who shall be nerfed or not...im just advocating some kind of overall balance and counters to everything.

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From what I can tell, far too many people sound like there not playing there escort properly and are too busy thinking "because it was tanky in beta, it must be tanky here too", guess what its not a tank and was never intended to be a tank, your a hit and run vessel!

So what should you stock up on and train for with an escort? weapons, exposures and speed!

As many Klinks learned in beta and started applying obviously towards the end and into live was the usefulness of the subsystem targetting BO skills. skills such as target shield subsystems which would knock a facing shield offline for a couple of cannon/torp volleys.

The Escorts advantage over the BoP is its ability to survive a firefight, a klink might have cloak/battle cloak but its very far from the "be all and end all" see a klink trying to flee? let loose with your torps because if he goes into cloak and you smack him with a high yield quantum torp, he is dusted (cloak will not save them, in fact it makes there chance of escaping lesser since they lose there shields several seconds before cloaking fully takes effect)

Dont underestimate weapons batteries either, you can double your damage while volleying/counter volleying when you use one, Raptors and Bird of Preys are frail and will likely not survive a weapon batteried volley (especially if you targetted there shield subsystems as your opener)

Dont rule out the usage of tractor beams, particle beams and Jam sensors either, Tractor beam will stop the kilink from cloaking and slow them down badly, particle beam can decloak them and leave them exposed without shields for a few seconds, and Jame sensors can buy you that extra few seconds to gain the edge in a firefight.

Mines also happen to be highly irritating to klinks as well, since most will have a 45 degree firing radius, they have a much harder time clearing through minefields, and dumping a minefield right where they are will cause them all sorts of headaches when it comes to cloaking under fire.

I played the Klinks a fair bit in pvp in beta, so I can honestly tell you, the grass aint all that greener on there side, there biggest strength is 99% of the time the biggest reason they end up dying, the best tactic is learning to force them into premature cloaking and capitalise on it!

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From what I can tell, far too many people sound like there not playing there escort properly and are too busy thinking "because it was tanky in beta, it must be tanky here too", guess what its not a tank and was never intended to be a tank, your a hit and run vessel!

So what should you stock up on and train for with an escort? weapons, exposures and speed!

As many Klinks learned in beta and started applying obviously towards the end and into live was the usefulness of the subsystem targetting BO skills. skills such as target shield subsystems which would knock a facing shield offline for a couple of cannon/torp volleys.

The Escorts advantage over the BoP is its ability to survive a firefight, a klink might have cloak/battle cloak but its very far from the "be all and end all" see a klink trying to flee? let loose with your torps because if he goes into cloak and you smack him with a high yield quantum torp, he is dusted (cloak will not save them, in fact it makes there chance of escaping lesser since they lose there shields several seconds before cloaking fully takes effect)

Dont underestimate weapons batteries either, you can double your damage while volleying/counter volleying when you use one, Raptors and Bird of Preys are frail and will likely not survive a weapon batteried volley (especially if you targetted there shield subsystems as your opener)

Dont rule out the usage of tractor beams, particle beams and Jam sensors either, Tractor beam will stop the kilink from cloaking and slow them down badly, particle beam can decloak them and leave them exposed without shields for a few seconds, and Jame sensors can buy you that extra few seconds to gain the edge in a firefight.

Mines also happen to be highly irritating to klinks as well, since most will have a 45 degree firing radius, they have a much harder time clearing through minefields, and dumping a minefield right where they are will cause them all sorts of headaches when it comes to cloaking under fire.

I played the Klinks a fair bit in pvp in beta, so I can honestly tell you, the grass aint all that greener on there side, there biggest strength is 99% of the time the biggest reason they end up dying, the best tactic is learning to force them into premature cloaking and capitalise on it!

I cannot count how many times I have chased a BoP that has used an engine battery and evasive manuevers to get away (with the same no doubt) peppering them with cannons and cracking a HYT3 to finish them off when they cloak but are still targetable.

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skills such as target shield subsystems which would knock a facing shield offline for a couple of cannon/torp volleys.


Fun bit of info, not sure if its still doing this though:

Extend shield and RSP refilled disabled shields, and could give shields to cloaked ships (and no, I dont mean MES'd ships)

Extend shield kind of makes sense, RSP makes none at all.

See? Fun.

edit: oh and almost forgot engi team fixed disabled subsystems instantly, and pretty much anyone pvping should have had engi team.

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with FvF , kling will have to play their pvp battles alone :) must be boring - 10 kling players sneaking arround :D

If FvF is adopted, it will just be more entertaining for Klingons to read the forums because all the Fed players will be crying for nerfs to each other. I wonder why they don't do that now? Hmmmmmm .....

And at times KvK is more fun anyway. No overpowered phasor ball of tab targetting spacebar win.

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Thats what not im talking about balance in overall pvp. Under balance i mean that every ship class is viable, every build has its uses, every ability has roughly same value as another on the same tier.

I dont want to turn MES at how it was (i actualy supported its nerf..oh the irony), but i want it to be a defensive tool, wich can "hide" the ship to the same distance, on wich a science ship can detect cloaked ships...thats alll...

Indeed, we don't need MES the way it was, I only support the best ways to keep escorts alive, and it's sad that it has to be things like MES and RSP. And people can't use the excuse that escorts can survive if they use their defensive skills which most likely means RSP, but if they pop that, attack you then you pop it last and still win, we don't need skills like that. Now if MES is tweaked so that everyone is happy, fine if not, maybe they'll open more doors of tactics that we can use instead. Chances are it will take some time for the devs to find a way to balance everything, we just have to be patient :3

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If FvF is adopted, it will just be more entertaining for Klingons to read the forums because all the Fed players will be crying for nerfs to each other. I wonder why they don't do that now? Hmmmmmm .....

And at times KvK is more fun anyway. No overpowered phasor ball of tab targetting spacebar win.

I forsee FvF being significantly more fun than FvK because of 2 things; both sides will be able to play the agressor, raw numbers will mean that more matches fire off than FvK

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For me though the only thing an Escort Really needs is a better turning circle than other ships that is always in effect at full combat speed ahead, Watch any Star Trek episode with the defiant and you'll see how the thing can pretty much turn on a dime.

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I forsee FvF being significantly more fun than FvK because of 2 things; both sides will be able to play the agressor, raw numbers will mean that more matches fire off than FvK

If I could be confident that the devs wouldn't use FvF as yet another reason to ignore Klingons, I would change my prior opinion and be for FvF ... but only because the Feds would get to look the mirror in the face so to speak.

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I forsee FvF being significantly more fun than FvK because of 2 things; both sides will be able to play the agressor, raw numbers will mean that more matches fire off than FvK

lets drop out FvK from game and import FvF , each side has their own pvp and everyone is happy.

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If I could be confident that the devs wouldn't use FvF as yet another reason to ignore Klingons, I would change my prior opinion and be for FvF ... but only because the Feds would get to look the mirror in the face so to speak.

You know, that anti-fed tone, and self-martyrdom feeling of some klingon posts is really getting old. You yap like old woman, not a proud warriors.

If you will belittle, and insult opposite faction on every corner, be sure that they will do the same. But since they are many more, their voice will count more.

I still think constructive feedback will give klingons more, than these childish anti-fed remarks..

If you think, that you are superior leet player, just because you play an underdeveloped faction in new MMO, than i must seriously question your inner maturity.

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From what I can tell, you are just validating everything I said, although you are taking things out of context and either didn't understand or are deliberately attempting to misrepresent me.

First yes, it needed to be nerfed and I said all along that it was going to be nerfed - so we agree about that.

I don't know what you are referring to about my making claims about pvp. You'll have to show me a quote or a link to the topic.

I can see that you are upset.

All I have ever posted about mes was that it was OP and inappropriate for feds to have, based on the developer position that feds would not have cloak and that it would most certainly be nerfed. I warned everyone who was denying it not to get too cozy or base their strategies on it. Good advice that has obviously not been followed, based on the antagonism we see here.

I've also shared how I employed MES as an attacker. That's not me claiming to pwn, it's just a technical description of the powers i use and the sequence I use them in.

sorry, not upset just talking about what is going on . once again my statement rings clear on you stating that it was innappropriate for the fed side to have anything to counter the turtleheads as it being based on the develpoers side wich meant claoking what mes wasnt doing but making it so that you cant be picked up on sensors ( yes in a way its like cloaking but not in to a degree of a cloaking capability ) . As i stated as well that all the Klingon side has the cloaking ability given to them from the get go .with out the mes ability as of now it will be all one sided again as i stated as well .

And no its not personal . And if it seemed so I do apologize . But most and all if not I think that the OB threads were wiped if Im correct .

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You know, that anti-fed tone, and self-martyrdom feeling of some klingon posts is really getting old. You yap like old woman, not a proud warriors.

If you will belittle, and insult opposite faction on every corner, be sure that they will do the same. But since they are many more, their voice will count more.

I still think constructive feedback will give klingons more, than these childish anti-fed remarks..

If you think, that you are superior leet player, just because you play an underdeveloped faction in new MMO, than i must seriously question your inner maturity.

generally speaking there are maybe 3-4 people that I know have valid arguements and I listen to them moreso than the numberous people shouting random nerfs and telling feds to play better. with experience you learn which voices make sense and which ones spew garbage. :rolleyes:

I still hold to my mark though that without outside intervention (aka: good reflexes) or RSP fed escorts have little survivability when facing multiple klinks zerging them. I defend MES because in it's former version it gave escorts a chance not to be the first target every single time in an attack, which makes a very large amount of difference between winning and losing.

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There is no 'I' in team. Because your team does not co-ordinate is your problem. Unfortunately, there is nothing in-game to correct this given the awkward chat options, but there ARE a number of 3rd party alternatives.

MES was designed to MASK the energy signature, not cloak it. It was intended that it would conceal your detection until an opponent moved in closer and then gradually, as the range dropped, you would appear on the HUD. As it works now, MES works to conceal you even if an opponent is sitting right on top of you. Even cloaked ships are detected by normals (ie non-science) within 2-3 km. When cloaked those same ships also have no shields, so when detected and fired on it is ALL hull damage. MES keep their shields up. I have yet to observe the timer actually work for MES as I have been in PvP matches where the Feds had one goat tethered and the rest of the 5 all MES'd for 5 minutes or more. Yup. Running completely as intended there. NOT.

Your attempts to couch this thread as some attempt to argue that MES is critical to the 'defensiveness' of the escort is in itself a sham. I am a klink. I use cloak and know what cloak is. It is an OFFENSIVE weapon. If you were worried about the defensiveness of the escort you would be more concerned about hull and shield strength/buffs. Your ire over losing the over-powered MES and coaching your arguments in the interests of play balance, given your statement above, seem to boil down to, I want the big gun AND be able to come out of fights only with scratches, so quit raining on my parade. If you want your escort to survive an alpha strike then I have a suggestion; fly a science ship or join the klinks who have a cloak on their ship BY DESIGN.

Same arrogant klink attitude we have been seeing, you have no idea what it was meant to be as being your not a designer, as your talking out of your arse now, MES is a critical ability for escorts. Its not about an i win, which MES does not give you, its about being able to survive. Without a working MES escorts will not survie any alpha strike, Seeing as you confess you dont even know how MES really worked in beta or even works now i dont see how your outlook on it is valid.

This whole team up idea you klinks have come up with is utter BS, no team is going to be able to keep an escort up with 4 bops on it, lets see the ship heal is on what a minute and half timer, so at most the escort would get a couple thousand heal out of it but its useless being that once the shields are gone klinks are eating on nothing but hull health.

Its not like we are asking to be able to cloak in battle like you or we are asking for the high evade ability or the turn ability you have as a klink. Hell you klinks use MES in conjunction with your cloaks, What you dont see is that for us to have the ability to survive we have to drop a BO slot for something that would be more productive then MES, but without MES escorts will be alpha shot everytime and will not be playable.

So sure if you guys are wanting to only go up against Science vessles and cruisers keep ranting on, and then when you whine about science ships and they are nerfed then the ball will roll in your field and you will get nerfed being you are over powered. MES gave escorts the balance to be able to wait till the battle started and then join in. Not be shot out of the sky right off. MES does nothing else........

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Some people have trouble standing without their crutch. All I hear is "escorts can't survive being focused fired without the old MES." Here's a hint, escorts aren't supposed to survive being focus fired. If you want to tank get a cruiser. If you want to be a glass cannon stick with escort.

I do however think Fed escorts need a little more survivability than they currently have. Maybe a boost to shields and hull strength, but make no mistake, MES was the dumbest, most overpowered ability in the entire game. It rightfully got nerfed and the people defending it are either; biased, stupid, or poor players. Or maybe all three.

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Some people have trouble standing without their crutch. All I hear is "escorts can't survive being focused fired without the old MES." Here's a hint, escorts aren't supposed to survive being focus fired. If you want to tank get a cruiser. If you want to be a glass cannon stick with escort.

I do however thing Fed escorts need a little more survivalibilty than they currently have. Maybe a boost to shields and hull strength, but make no mistake, MES was the dumbest, most overpowered ability in the entire game. It rightfully got nerfed and the people defending it are either; biased, stupid, or poor players. Or maybe all three.

so wait, you say that escorts deserve to be gunned down but need more survivability? All MES did was make it so you weren't always the first target of the alpha strike. :rolleyes:

edit: ok it did some stuff that was pretty abusive, but I think the basic point still stands and thats what people are arguing.

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Feds in general werent having trouble in deathmatch before MES became popular in OB.

People stuck to the group and healed eachother instead of complaining that the entire enemy team is focusing them. If you dislike being focused in an escort, there was a valid suggestion, in the lower tiers using emergency power to shields and rotate shield frequency as a defensive measure basically made you impervious for 10-15 seconds. This is less effective in the higher tiers, but you gain access to even better anti-FF abilities.

But oh wait, you dont want to play an engi captain? Well then, you can die almost as fast as any BoP or raptor pilot who doesnt want to be an engi captain either.

Klingon ships die in seconds when FF'd just as easily as a federation ones(actually less shields and hull after the last few changes they had made), and if your jamming space bar the instant they appear the beam-heavy cruisers and sci vessels immediately target the first one to decloak and he is 'auto-FF'd'. You die in seconds, so does a klingon ship if your sticking close to the cruisers and sci ships.

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so wait, you say that escorts deserve to be gunned down but need more survivability? All MES did was make it so you weren't always the first target of the alpha strike. :rolleyes:

You must fall in the stupid category. MES was better than Klingons cloak. Your shields stay up. /rolleyes If your survivability is based on ONE ability it is OP and other compensation is needed.

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All MES did was make it so you weren't always the first target of the alpha strike. :rolleyes:


Whatever klingon ship pops out of stealth first is usually auto-targeted with space bar.

Until T3, the first klingon ship to get alpha striked is 100% going to be an escort.

Once you hit T3, RSP is available to escorts, and allows them to mitigate being FF'd.

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You must fall in the stupid category. MES was better than Klingons cloak. Your shields stay up. /rolleyes If your survivability is based on ONE ability it is OP and other compensation is needed.

I didn't say my survivability was based on one skill, stop assuming im a scrub :)

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You must fall in the stupid category. MES was better than Klingons cloak. Your shields stay up. /rolleyes If your survivability is based on ONE ability it is OP and other compensation is needed.

That's not what he's saying, he knows what MES does, and the fact that it's the one skill that helps escorts( as well as reverse shield) doesn't mean it's OP ( but it was op) it means the escorts need to be worked on in one way or another. Please don't throw insults without reading.

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It's true getting alpha'd by 5 klingons hurts, especially when you're having to wait 10 minutes between ganks because klingons tend to wait until after people start leaving the game.

What MES did though, was allow any escort that had it to alpha down decloaking BoP's and Raptor's (Not so much the B.Cruisers) by himself. I agree something needs to be in place to prevent getting focus fired down, but MES was just a bit more unbalanced than an entire team alphaing you.

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(Not so much the B.Cruisers).

T3 no, T4, if he had the right debuffs and buffs he could.

My torps hit for 10k in my setup.

Sensor sweep is insane if you put all your support skill points into it and put all your consoles toward it.

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sorry, not upset just talking about what is going on . once again my statement rings clear on you stating that it was innappropriate for the fed side to have anything to counter the turtleheads as it being based on the develpoers side wich meant claoking what mes wasnt doing but making it so that you cant be picked up on sensors ( yes in a way its like cloaking but not in to a degree of a cloaking capability ) . As i stated as well that all the Klingon side has the cloaking ability given to them from the get go .with out the mes ability as of now it will be all one sided again as i stated as well .

And no its not personal . And if it seemed so I do apologize . But most and all if not I think that the OB threads were wiped if Im correct .

The problem was exactly that MES -is- cloak. It does exactly what cloak does, mechanically. It adds perception and combat stealth. So much of both that players using it couldn't be detected even by science. All 'cloak' does is - add perception and combat stealth. They were the same exact skill.

The reason MES was better than cloak, was that the player can fire from MES without the delay of decloaking. That was allowing alpha strikes to happen and combat cloak to be available without the cooldown.

While fed players were using MES and gaining some cloak - kdf players were able to fly in with MES, be undetectable and then drop an alpha strike before they could be targetted and then recloak a few seconds later. Something the devs never intended.

Players could also drop mines while in MES, and use various powers. It really had serious issues for fed players too, they just didn't realize it.

It was also entirely broken in that it allowed stealthed captures and broke the capture maps by preventing the hotspots from being recaptured.

It was just entirely broken.

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Get in a premade, make sure people can throw heals towards the escort. Yes, the escort will be targetted first, so have you reppers already have you locked, then they can start bashing buttons as soon as the hurt starts.

And stop asking for MES to be returned to its former glory, you seem to have no idea how much that skill hurt you feds.

BoP's hit and recloak trick needs mes to work, klingon ships healing shelds so they can come kill you some more required MES. Klingons using MES were much much harder for you to detect than cloaked ships. And you want to give us all that back? While at the same time as threads whinging about how OP klingons already are?

EDIT: meat beat me to it, and said it nicer.

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Get in a premade, make sure people can throw heals towards the escort. Yes, the escort will be targetted first, so have you reppers already have you locked, then they can start bashing buttons as soon as the hurt starts.

And stop asking for MES to be returned to its former glory, you seem to have no idea how much that skill hurt you feds.

BoP's hit and recloak trick needs mes to work, klingon ships healing shelds so they can come kill you some more required MES. Klingons using MES were much much harder for you to detect than cloaked ships. And you want to give us all that back? While at the same time as threads whinging about how OP klingons already are?

EDIT: meat beat me to it, and said it nicer.

I always got a laugh over people using MES and sitting right on top of a science ship who didnt pick science captain.

AFAIK it was impossible detect MES without sensor sweep.

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You must fall in the stupid category. MES was better than Klingons cloak. Your shields stay up. /rolleyes If your survivability is based on ONE ability it is OP and other compensation is needed.

So lets see, lets drop cloak from klinks and see how long you survive, escorts are about on par with a bop.

Ya didnt think you would want that to happen, i have never seen a klink play without cloak so would that be consided to be a crutch?. Isnt your attacks based off of cloak, do you ever load into pvp and then go straight to the feds without cloak on?

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You know, that anti-fed tone, and self-martyrdom feeling of some klingon posts is really getting old. You yap like old woman, not a proud warriors.

If you will belittle, and insult opposite faction on every corner, be sure that they will do the same. But since they are many more, their voice will count more.

I still think constructive feedback will give klingons more, than these childish anti-fed remarks..

If you think, that you are superior leet player, just because you play an underdeveloped faction in new MMO, than i must seriously question your inner maturity.

Actually some of us play on both sides and so can make a balanced viewpoint instead of being biased from one side only. As for your post above ... hey pot meet kettle.

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I always got a laugh over people using MES and sitting right on top of a science ship who didnt pick science captain.

AFAIK it was impossible detect MES without sensor sweep.

I got poped in MES numerous times, I would assume some Science Captains know what they're doing, keep power in Aux & spend skill points in Sensors.

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So lets see, lets drop cloak from klinks and see how long you survive, escorts are about on par with a bop.

Ya didnt think you would want that to happen, i have never seen a klink play without cloak so would that be consided to be a crutch?. Isnt your attacks based off of cloak, do you ever load into pvp and then go straight to the feds without cloak on?

Actually the BoP has noticably less hull, shields, and one less BO slot.

If you ever attack an uncloaked BoP 1v1 and end up losing, your horrible. There are some nasty 1v1 builds I can think of on a BoP, but even Viral Matrix can be easily countered on an escort.

I got poped in MES numerous times, I would assume some Science Captiains know what they're doing and keep power in Aux & spend skill points in Sensors.

You know what they say about assuming things, right? :D

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Then I shall say that cloaking should have a longer timer cool down on it instead of 20 seconds make it a minute after use. We want to be fair right then lets do it. If they fix mes and yes I will play an escort cuz I'm stubborn and don't listen very well :P But with that comes the ability to face the attacker .

Ive done allot of different mmos and different types of PVP . And there was not just one side that had the capability to hide from everybody all the time . Its still not a level playing field no matter what the argument is . Cloaking gives the turtle heads the advantage pure and simple. And If i wanted to be a cookie cutter class like some have suggested to counter the turtle heads by all means do so . I wont.
And then someone will say then you will die , possible.

But in the near future when the introduce the romulan side be prepared for the real cloak wars to start guarantee it. You thought that mes was bad lol wait till that happens.

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So lets see, lets drop cloak from klinks and see how long you survive, escorts are about on par with a bop.

Ya didnt think you would want that to happen, i have never seen a klink play without cloak so would that be consided to be a crutch?. Isnt your attacks based off of cloak, do you ever load into pvp and then go straight to the feds without cloak on?

And i've not seen a fed team that didnt have cruisers and/or sci ships. Are they a crutch too? because its something we dont have till t3/t5.

And Raptors are about on par with escorts, come play a klingon and learn what your talking about first. You try playing against feds and not using a cloak. You'll be back on here whining within 5 minutes about how OP feds are.

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No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

actually, it was the fact that mes was better and stronger than cloak. With Mes you had your shield with cloak you did not. With mez you could pop it in combat only Bops could pop BC while in combat. Now compare that to the FEDS who whiined all during closed beta to the point that at one time they made it so you could see a cloaked ship at 12k+ without any skills, or scans. So the devs finally tuned it so you could see cloaked ships only at a shorter range or when you scanned. Which Klingons were happy with.

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And i've not seen a fed team that didnt have cruisers and/or sci ships. Are they a crutch too? because its something we dont have till t3/t5.

And Raptors are about on par with escorts, come play a klingon and learn what your talking about first. You try playing against feds and not using a cloak. You'll be back on here whining within 5 minutes about how OP feds are.

I played both sides in closed and open, and where did i ever call out a specific tier. Your just trying to be a smart arse, you know what i was talking about.

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actually, it was the fact that mes was better and stronger than cloak. With Mes you had your shield with cloak you did not. With mez you could pop it in combat only Bops could pop BC while in combat. Now compare that to the FEDS who whiined all during closed beta to the point that at one time they made it so you could see a cloaked ship at 12k+ without any skills, or scans. So the devs finally tuned it so you could see cloaked ships only at a shorter range or when you scanned. Which Klingons were happy with.

I thought MES could only be used outside of battle =o

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I thought MES could only be used outside of battle =o

Basic cloak in noncombat as well.

BoPs used/abused it to MES, drop out, blow every weapon cooldown they have, then battlecloak as they EM+EP2engine away.

Battlecloak has a cooldown from when they decloak, see? (I think its 20s)

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yes you did have to be out of combat that means no red alert or anything like that for it too work .

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I thought MES could only be used outside of battle =o

Correct. MES can not be activated in combat.

He may mean Jam Sensors which makes you "invisible" to your target for a short time.

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Basic cloak in noncombat as well.

BoPs used/abused it to MES, drop out, blow every weapon cooldown they have, then battlecloak as they EM+EP2engine away.

Battlecloak has a cooldown from when they decloak, see? (I think its 20s)

Yea, I was just wondering why he said mes could be used like battlecloak, unless I read wrong xD maybe he said you could battlecloak then pop mes to get your shields back up? I dunno I can't read :D

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How do you adept to a worthless skill, its utterly useless now. At 9 km MES pops now (with the skill maxed out). Escorts have no chance anymore.

Even with MES we had teh option of suprise on klings,if they were uncloaked, but even after we still didnt have the evade ability klings do, klings get in a tight spot they evade, outrun feds and pop cloak again. Feds wernt able to get out of range in time to even try and pop it again.

Not counting dropping our shields now, klings see us with MES on now and hammer us with no shields. BAM we are dead in seconds.

first, feds have evade just as klingons had it. mez could be poped in combat while only bops with bc could cloak in combat. Mez did not drop shields like cloak did. So all they did was try to tune it to not be so Op.

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And i've not seen a fed team that didnt have cruisers and/or sci ships. Are they a crutch too? because its something we dont have till t3/t5.

And Raptors are about on par with escorts, come play a klingon and learn what your talking about first. You try playing against feds and not using a cloak. You'll be back on here whining within 5 minutes about how OP feds are.

BoP's are our Science ships, universal BO slots ftw. A T2 battlecruiser is only helpful for pugs in the absence of teamwork.

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first, feds have evade just as klingons had it. mez could be poped in combat while only bops with bc could cloak in combat. Mez did not drop shields like cloak did. So all they did was try to tune it to not be so Op.

See? When could MES ever be used in combat like battlecloak o.O I didn't know it ever could, lol....Maybe he IS confusing it with jam sensor =o

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See? When could MES ever be used in combat like battlecloak o.O I didn't know it ever could, lol....Maybe he IS confusing it with jam sensor =o

MES can't be used in combat. The winning combination was :

drop cloak out of target range
raise mes
fly in
drop mines
prep alpha
attack target and launch torps
combat cloak
fly away

You were if you were lucky visible for a few seconds at most.

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BoP's are our Science ships, universal BO slots ftw. A T2 battlecruiser is only helpful for pugs in the absence of teamwork.

BoP as a sci ship sucks, at t5 you'll want the closest thing to a sci ship we have, but to survive that long you'll have to pour skill points into BoP. They have no inbuilt sci abilities, a fraction of the EHP's, and less BO slots in the first place. Universal slots only buy you so much.

Not to mention feds sci officers can level in PVE, levelling sci officer in PvP sucks for both sides atm with the rewards based on damage.

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Thats what not im talking about balance in overall pvp. Under balance i mean that every ship class is viable, every build has its uses, every ability has roughly same value as another on the same tier.

I dont want to turn MES at how it was (i actualy supported its nerf..oh the irony), but i want it to be a defensive tool, wich can "hide" the ship to the same distance, on wich a science ship can detect cloaked ships...thats alll...

Just notice, i aint saying anyone is overpowered, who shall be nerfed or not...im just advocating some kind of overall balance and counters to everything.

I will bite. How do you make it defensive? MES, like cloak, is an offensive weapon. The original poster tried using this same argument saying that MES was critical to the survivability of a Fed escort in an alpha strike. That is telling in itself. One single power was critical.

1. The target of an alpha strike, even in real life, should never survive. Harsh, but so is ANY form of combat. The object, once you realize you are the target of an alpha, is to survive long enough that your TEAM reacts with THEIR powers and abilities. Once the alpha strike is launched the BoPs making it become targets as much as the target of the strike. IMO more so as the BoP is an eggshell with a cannon. A moderate cohesive Fed team can usually grab two kills for that lone alpha strike target. Yes it sucks to be that alpha target over and over, but guess what.. by the time you hit your 8th time dead, the match is over because your team has won.

2. The ability to shield yourself from your opponent, while initially defensive, ultimately allows you to choose the time, place and means of your attack. This makes it offensive. Klinks understand this because we are given that ability in a limited form with our first ship. No one is altruistic enough NOT to use MES as an offensive tool. It is human nature to want to win and to use all the tools at your disposal to do so, but please do not dignify your arguments that everyone will not strive to use a tool, any tool, in such a fashion as to not give them an advantage.

Even looking to canon, the Fed side have the technology for cloaking so why are the Federation ships not all fitted with cloaking technology? Because that is canon is why, and the DEVS have adapted that view. MES was being used as cloaking technology. That may not have been the intention, but that was the effect that it was being utilized in. The DEVS have since corrected that somewhat and now foul is being cried.

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first, feds have evade just as klingons had it. mez could be poped in combat while only bops with bc could cloak in combat. Mez did not drop shields like cloak did. So all they did was try to tune it to not be so Op.

MES does not work in combat and never did, have no idea what your talking about do you, and klinks hae a far faster evade, at max speed once they hit evade they pretty much cant be caught, when i pop evade it does no good with bop's on me.

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I will bite. How do you make it defensive? MES, like cloak, is an offensive weapon. The original poster tried using this same argument saying that MES was critical to the survivability of a Fed escort in an alpha strike. That is telling in itself. One single power was critical.

1. The target of an alpha strike, even in real life, should never survive. Harsh, but so is ANY form of combat. The object, once you realize you are the target of an alpha, is to survive long enough that your TEAM reacts with THEIR powers and abilities. Once the alpha strike is launched the BoPs making it become targets as much as the target of the strike. IMO more so as the BoP is an eggshell with a cannon. A moderate cohesive Fed team can usually grab two kills for that lone alpha strike target. Yes it sucks to be that alpha target over and over, but guess what.. by the time you hit your 8th time dead, the match is over because your team has won.

2. The ability to shield yourself from your opponent, while initially defensive, ultimately allows you to choose the time, place and means of your attack. This makes it offensive. Klinks understand this because we are given that ability in a limited form with our first ship. No one is altruistic enough NOT to use MES as an offensive tool. It is human nature to want to win and to use all the tools at your disposal to do so, but please do not dignify your arguments that everyone will not strive to use a tool, any tool, in such a fashion as to not give them an advantage.

Even looking to canon, the Fed side have the technology for cloaking so why are the Federation ships not all fitted with cloaking technology? Because that is canon is why, and the DEVS have adapted that view. MES was being used as cloaking technology. That may not have been the intention, but that was the effect that it was being utilized in. The DEVS have since corrected that somewhat and now foul is being cried.

Its not about surviving an alpha strike its about taking yourself out of the position to get one as klinks have.

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I do believe they just fixed up MES with the latest update =o at my level (lt 4) skill level 1 -25% shields 200 aggro stealth 2350 perception stealth, enables cloaked mode.

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See? When could MES ever be used in combat like battlecloak o.O I didn't know it ever could, lol....Maybe he IS confusing it with jam sensor =o


no actually I am not sorry you were not around long enough to know the varents they were for mes

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BoP's are our Science ships, universal BO slots ftw. A T2 battlecruiser is only helpful for pugs in the absence of teamwork.

Except BoPs get none of the benefits of science ships. What you mean is BoP is the best thing Science officers could use until T5, because we don't have a science ship :p

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I do believe they just fixed up MES with the latest update =o at my level (lt 4) skill level 1 -25% shields 200 aggro stealth 2350 perception stealth, enables cloaked mode.

Nope its still jacked up, totally useless.

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no actually I am not sorry you were not around long enough to know the varents they were for mes

I was in for part of Closed Beta and do not ever remember MES being useable in combat. MES, for me, has been pretty much the same from late November 2009 till today. :)

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This is ridicules, fix MES.......

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I will bite. How do you make it defensive? MES, like cloak, is an offensive weapon. The original poster tried using this same argument saying that MES was critical to the survivability of a Fed escort in an alpha strike. That is telling in itself. One single power was critical.

1. The target of an alpha strike, even in real life, should never survive. Harsh, but so is ANY form of combat. The object, once you realize you are the target of an alpha, is to survive long enough that your TEAM reacts with THEIR powers and abilities. Once the alpha strike is launched the BoPs making it become targets as much as the target of the strike. IMO more so as the BoP is an eggshell with a cannon. A moderate cohesive Fed team can usually grab two kills for that lone alpha strike target. Yes it sucks to be that alpha target over and over, but guess what.. by the time you hit your 8th time dead, the match is over because your team has won.

2. The ability to shield yourself from your opponent, while initially defensive, ultimately allows you to choose the time, place and means of your attack. This makes it offensive. Klinks understand this because we are given that ability in a limited form with our first ship. No one is altruistic enough NOT to use MES as an offensive tool. It is human nature to want to win and to use all the tools at your disposal to do so, but please do not dignify your arguments that everyone will not strive to use a tool, any tool, in such a fashion as to not give them an advantage.

Even looking to canon, the Fed side have the technology for cloaking so why are the Federation ships not all fitted with cloaking technology? Because that is canon is why, and the DEVS have adapted that view. MES was being used as cloaking technology. That may not have been the intention, but that was the effect that it was being utilized in. The DEVS have since corrected that somewhat and now foul is being cried.

pick the time and place against an enemy you can't see... ya didn't think so. and Canonically Feds can't use cloaks due to the kitomer accords, which the klinks walked out of.

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MES was broken pre-nerf... mes is broken now...

MES is called MASK energy signature... MES does not equal cloak... should not equal cloak.

Even in the STar trek shows when they used masked energy signature they only made themself look like another ship... it didn't render them invisible.

What the DEV should do is change it so that MES makes you look like an ally and that is it. It keeps it viable in PvE... Make the enemies break throuh the MES if within X range give or take ship Aux vs enemy sensors.

In PVP if you want to target someone with MES they had to manually click on them.

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They also did it to limit visibility.

As far as I'm concerned, MES didn't need to get nerfed, the Klingons needed a buff. I'm a Fed player and was hoping I could use MES so I wouldn't have to go FULLY through every mission I've been through 3 times again. Like those missions "Scan X amount of X objects". But there's enemies crawling all over those objects. I don't want to waste the time defeating them a fourth time to complete the mission again. I wanted to use MES, slip past the enemies, complete my objective and move on. After I had completed those early missions, I could care less about MES.

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They also did it to limit visibility.

As far as I'm concerned, MES didn't need to get nerfed, the Klingons needed a buff. I'm a Fed player and was hoping I could use MES so I wouldn't have to go FULLY through every mission I've been through 3 times again. Like those missions "Scan X amount of X objects". But there's enemies crawling all over those objects. I don't want to waste the time defeating them a fourth time to complete the mission again. I wanted to use MES, slip past the enemies, complete my objective and move on. After I had completed those early missions, I could care less about MES.

this is pvp not pve

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Damned klingons couldnt handle Fed's having a cloak so they complain, got it nerfed and now the skill is basicly useless.

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Damned klingons couldnt handle Fed's having a cloak so they complain, got it nerfed and now the skill is basicly useless.

thats the issue , correct :)

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Damned klingons couldnt handle Fed's having a cloak so they complain, got it nerfed and now the skill is basicly useless.

Your forgetting the part that WE COULD USE IT TOO.

So its not a nerf of any one side. Your just upset because you wanted to be Klingon's with OP Fed ships.

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Now everyone will run from battle instead masking...there is kinda no difference...except i smell that klingons will soon whine about FED escorts running from battle (oh the irony) and that decloaking is again no advantage to that :P evasive maneuver nerf will follow :P

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Now everyone will run from battle instead masking...there is kinda no difference...except i smell that klingons will soon whine about FED escorts running from battle (oh the irony) and that decloaking is again no advantage to that :P evasive maneuver nerf will follow :P

Nonsense. Evasive maneuvers saves me more than it saves you...

:)

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Nonsense. Evasive maneuvers saves me more than it saves you...

:)

Its about the same, i have to run also in escort...now just wait a bit, till whole FEDball starts running after you all decloak :P

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I just want the **** to allow me to stay in stealth until the enemy opens up on my team. If I'm the first one to be targetted in a pug, chances are my team's going to get smashed. I've carefully observed people in those games throughout the last week of OB. 90% of the fed player base is incapable of reaching their damage potential, nor do they pick the pro PVP BO abilities, and most of them don't even pick up the heals for themselves, let alone use them on other people.

I should have the option of stealthing permanently on sheer principle that I should not be forced to die with terribles like that. At worst, I should be allowed to remain unscathed in stealth, and watch those losers fail, while I mock and ridicule them in chat for all to see. This provides me entertainment in an otherwise bleak situation.

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Played several pvp games today as a fed ( tactical escort ) and MES doesn't work at all. I have MES I maxed out on by science BO and the klinks see me 20 kms away every single time, even when i have aux power on 100%. This will quickly become a big showstopper in pvp for escorts and science ships if its not fixed.

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Played several pvp games today as a fed ( tactical escort ) and MES doesn't work at all. I have MES I maxed out on by science BO and the klinks see me 20 kms away every single time, even when i have aux power on 100%. This will quickly become a big showstopper in pvp for escorts and science ships if its not fixed.

tactical escort is like T4 ? ehm...dont you people sleep ? :P

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Played several pvp games today as a fed ( tactical escort ) and MES doesn't work at all. I have MES I maxed out on by science BO and the klinks see me 20 kms away every single time, even when i have aux power on 100%. This will quickly become a big showstopper in pvp for escorts and science ships if its not fixed.

Er...... if MES is the big showstopper for you, you really neglected your survival abilities.

By T4 there were a few matches where I had stopped bothering with cloak because RSP made the opening shots little more than going through the motions.

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jesus f.... christ i meant tactical officer in an escort ><

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MES seems like it should work only at a distance. Probably around 5k+. It shouldn't have been working as it did before, which by the way was actually more of an advantage for Klingons with the skill.

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jesus f.... christ i meant tactical officer in an escort ><

Dude, huuuuuge difference.

By T4 RSP makes taking the opening hits laughable.

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No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

Okay first of all most Klingon players in space PVP now have become very smart. As a Klingon you can go into a space PVP ground and be invited into a group and go 15 to 6 easily. We have learned which targets to focus and have maxed our ships to perform at their best ability. Most fleets use vent to communicate and switch targets easy. Learn other tactics and stop Fed balling it up.

Note: I didn't really have a problem with MES but others seem to have. The whole capturing a point while in it was broken and the fact that you could be right next to a Klingon and they couldn't see you was broken. I noticed a few post up MES should not work if you're within 5km. I think thats a great idea and that should definately be looked at as a possible fix.

Go klingons.
Zitro.

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If MES was the only thing that kept Fed escorts alive, then you know how hard it is for Klingons to stay alive, ah no, its even harder for Klingons because MES did not have any of the Cloack drawbacks.........

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If MES was the only thing that kept Fed escorts alive, then you know how hard it is for Klingons to stay alive, ah no, its even harder for Klingons because MES did not have any of the Cloack drawbacks.........

MES was used as a tactic to NOT get the alpha strike, which happens EVERYTIME now, when you can be seen 18km or better away the skill is useless.

Without MES escorts have no ability to do what they are supposed to do and that is create dps, escorts hulls can not sustain 4 or 5 klinks at once and that is what happens with the new MES.

So not only do we get the alpha strike now but we get it with our shields down.

so lets see, klinks can see us at 18km or better, they run up on us cloaked and fire almost point blank on us with our shields down. There is nothing that can save an escort from that.

Point being escorts are useless now.......

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MES was used as a tactic to NOT get the alpha strike, which happens EVERYTIME now, when you can be seen 18km or better away the skill is useless.

Without MES escorts have no ability to do what they are supposed to do and that is create dps, escorts hulls can not sustain 4 or 5 klinks at once and that is what happens with the new MES.

So not only do we get the alpha strike now but we get it with our shields down.

so lets see, klinks can see us at 18km or better, they run up on us cloaked and fire almost point blank on us with our shields down. There is nothing that can save an escort from that.

Point being escorts are useless now.......

Thank you for writing this, finally someone who understands the problem.

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MES was used as a tactic to NOT get the alpha strike, which happens EVERYTIME now, when you can be seen 18km or better away the skill is useless.

Without MES escorts have no ability to do what they are supposed to do and that is create dps, escorts hulls can not sustain 4 or 5 klinks at once and that is what happens with the new MES.

So not only do we get the alpha strike now but we get it with our shields down.

so lets see, klinks can see us at 18km or better, they run up on us cloaked and fire almost point blank on us with our shields down. There is nothing that can save an escort from that.

Point being escorts are useless now.......

********. Nearly all of our ships are escorts, and we always take alpha with our escorts ships.

Who do you think decloacks and takes your Fedblob alpha in T2 battles? Ah yes, its our Escorts who have NO shields because of cloacks...

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No the majority did not ask for a change, the klings did. MES did need some changes, like being able to capture points in pvp with it on. But other then that it was fine. They whined about it because they didnt want to have to take skills that would allow them to pop MES. You were able to pop MES if you took the science skills to do it and they whined because they all want to max dps and not have to play smart/

With the changes escorts are useless now.

no we did...as a fed player i know we did

MES was a cloak with zero drawbacks

klingons have ships with lower hp and a cloak with drawbacks

feds have ships with higher hp and a cloak that lets you still use shields...

i won EVERY. SINGLE. CAP-BASED space battle I joined, and have the pics to prove this if anyone is interested... im sorry but fed players who just want it to be easy mode for them can go suck a ####, im not about to fight a gimped opponent.

TAKE MES AWAY IMO.

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no we did...as a fed player i know we did

MES was a cloak with zero drawbacks

klingons have ships with lower hp and a cloak with drawbacks

feds have ships with higher hp and a cloak that lets you still use shields...

i won EVERY. SINGLE. CAP-BASED space battle I joined, and have the pics to prove this if anyone is interested... im sorry but fed players who just want it to be easy mode for them can go suck a ####, im not about to fight a gimped opponent.

TAKE MES AWAY IMO.

Exactly - it WAS with zero drawbacks and it was way overpowered we all agree on that but now it simply doesnt work at all in pvp. I just want it to work like it should - weaker version on klink cloak.

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feds have ships with higher hp and a cloak that lets you still use shields...
.

More like fed's "had" a cloak that let you keep shields, no longer is that the case.

Personally I'm giving the whole MES thing a few days to see if anything changes. If anything changes to make it slightly worth using I'll continue on my path of using an escort again. If nothing changes, science or cruiser here I come, that should be fun....

Also people are missing the point of why MES is needed on an escort. It's not a get out of jail free card. It just keeps you from taking the first hits. Any decent klingon group is still going to target the escort after it uncloaks to engage. All MES did was buy you alittle time and make klingons have to work alittle to take out an escort. Gasp... you mean klingons had to think and retarget? That's unheard of and unfair!

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Fed Escorts are focused fired. When I received my T3 Escort and entered a PvP queue, I was usually the 1st or 2nd (literally) 90% of the time. Where I use to have several kills per game, I rare made 1-2 if that many. I'm not stretching that by any means. And no, you didn't see me whining about it on the forums.

My counter was MES. It gave me the ability to not be the initial pick off from the Klingon uncloaking pack. It also allowed me to position myself and choose my target.

I haven't officially tried MES yet as I'm not PvPing until I get to Captain or even Admiral. I admit, being able to pass with 1 KM of a Klingon ship was a bit overpowering, however, I believe it should have it's true benefits. Fed Escorts can do awesome DPS, however, you can't do any DPS when you can't keep a shield facing up from being multi-targeted. If I were Klingons, I would be focus firing the Escorts as well so I don't blame them there, however, there needs to be a viable tactic to counter.

I would be in favor of having this ability to being effective all the from 10 KM (firing range). That's a nice round number and it would help satisfy everyone within reason.

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Played several pvp games today as a fed ( tactical escort ) and MES doesn't work at all. I have MES I maxed out on by science BO and the klinks see me 20 kms away every single time, even when i have aux power on 100%. This will quickly become a big showstopper in pvp for escorts and science ships if its not fixed.

Did you want cloak? KDF gets cloak. If that's your playstyle, play kdf.

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Did you want cloak? KDF gets cloak. If that's your playstyle, play kdf.

That's not a solution, all you're saying is "hey fed's don't use an escort in pvp, I want to shoot at a nice beefy cruiser, everyone go pick up a cruiser!" Cause that's all you'll see soon enough.

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no we did...as a fed player i know we did

MES was a cloak with zero drawbacks

klingons have ships with lower hp and a cloak with drawbacks

feds have ships with higher hp and a cloak that lets you still use shields...

i won EVERY. SINGLE. CAP-BASED space battle I joined, and have the pics to prove this if anyone is interested... im sorry but fed players who just want it to be easy mode for them can go suck a ####, im not about to fight a gimped opponent.

TAKE MES AWAY IMO.


Nobody cares about your epeen so no screenies are needed, the point is wihtout MES you take a class out of the game. Escorts get alpha strike EVERYTIME now, the class is almost unplayable.

Yes MES had issues, as in capping bases with it on, that aside if you klinks set yourself up to pop it or hell even used mines MES was nulified. But no its too much work to load a mine launcher on your ship, it cuts down on your DPS and thats all you worry about.....being able to drop on a target tear it to pieces and then cloaking out.

For an escort to be able to survive it is required to have MES period. When you guys start running up against 3 to 4 science vessels in a pvp match you will wish they had not changed MES............ Just wait till you have Viral chained on you then we will see....

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More like fed's "had" a cloak that let you keep shields, no longer is that the case.

Personally I'm giving the whole MES thing a few days to see if anything changes. If anything changes to make it slightly worth using I'll continue on my path of using an escort again. If nothing changes, science or cruiser here I come, that should be fun....

Also people are missing the point of why MES is needed on an escort. It's not a get out of jail free card. It just keeps you from taking the first hits. Any decent klingon group is still going to target the escort after it uncloaks to engage. All MES did was buy you alittle time and make klingons have to work alittle to take out an escort. Gasp... you mean klingons had to think and retarget? That's unheard of and unfair!

Now you lose your shields and you have to drop it before you can attack also you cna be seen from 18 km plus with it on, its totally useless in its current form. Whats the use of having it when you can be seen from so far off and the enemy can sit on your tailpie and hit you with full guns with you not having one shield up.....

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Wrong. Again, and for the last time - the error was yours for relying on a skill that you shouldn't have had, and we warned you was getting removed.

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Do fed escorts not have access to reverse shield polarity, science team, emergency power to shields, extend shields, or any of the other numerous buffs and resists us BoP captains have to use to stay alive? It's no walk in a park for us either after we decloak.

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Do fed escorts not have access to reverse shield polarity, science team, emergency power to shields, extend shields, or any of the other numerous buffs and resists us BoP captains have to use to stay alive? It's no walk in a park for us either after we decloak.

theres better stuff than science team for an escort, like jam targetting sensors. and I was under the impression that extend shields was only on another player...

but your arguing a different subject than what I believe hes talking about. MES served a fundamentally different purpose than all that stuff you mentioned. It prevented the alpha strike from hitting the escort 100% of the time because they couldnt see them (even in that case, bad escorts can't use it properly). Not survive the alpha strike, the MES made it so they didn't take the alpha strike in the first place. That was why it got popular, and then people learned that you could do some pretty stupidly overpowered stuff with it (which everyone can agree was bad for the game)

If you try a fed escort without mes you would notice that your going to get focus fired first alot of the time and that is why people are extremely upset, not because they can't survive it (well some of them cant :rolleyes:) but because taking it up the *** every minute or so starts to get gay really fast.

quick edit: and at higher tiers, Klinks can avoid getting the alpha strike by generally NOT being the first person to uncloak (get a battlecruiser to do it). This comment addresses tier3+ only.

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Wrong. Again, and for the last time - the error was yours for relying on a skill that you shouldn't have had, and we warned you was getting removed.

Hate to break the news to you, but it wasn't removed. All that was done was turn it into a death trap. You use it now so you can drop your shields and get blown up. Clearly that is broken, had they removed it completely that'd be a different story.

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theres better stuff than science team for an escort, like jam targetting sensors. and I was under the impression that extend shields was only on another player...

but your arguing a different subject than what I believe hes talking about. MES served a fundamentally different purpose than all that stuff you mentioned. It prevented the alpha strike from hitting the escort 100% of the time because they couldnt see them (even in that case, bad escorts can't use it properly). Not survive the alpha strike, the MES made it so they didn't take the alpha strike in the first place. That was why it got popular, and then people learned that you could do some pretty stupidly overpowered stuff with it (which everyone can agree was bad for the game)

If you try a fed escort without mes you would notice that your going to get focus fired first alot of the time and that is why people are extremely upset, not because they can't survive it (well some of them cant :rolleyes:) but because taking it up the *** every minute or so starts to get gay really fast.

quick edit: and at higher tiers, Klinks can avoid getting the alpha strike by generally NOT being the first person to uncloak (get a battlecruiser to do it). This comment addresses tier3+ only.

Against a competent Fed group I always got focus fired in my BoP once they noticed me. I'm not saying MES is perfect now, but it should not be returned to the way it was, not even close.

You guys can use the same tactic we did to save our alpha strikes for the weak escorts: Don't alpha strike cruisers, wait for the escorts to decloak, and then alpha strike them. That's how we did it as Klingons against the MES escorts. At least as a fed you know there's more than likely at least 1-2 BoP pilots on the kling side, imagine how screwed we are when we face 4 cruisers and a science vessel. Cruisers being so tough to take down even with a focus fired alpha is the reason Science ships and escorts are always targeted first. It has nothing to do with MES.

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Against a competent Fed group I always got focus fired in my BoP once they noticed me. I'm not saying MES is perfect now, but it should not be returned to the way it was, not even close.

You guys can use the same tactic we did to save our alpha strikes for the weak escorts: Don't alpha strike cruisers, wait for the escorts to decloak, and then alpha strike them. That's how we did it as Klingons against the MES escorts. At least as a fed you know there's more than likely at least 1-2 BoP pilots on the kling side, imagine how screwed we are when we face 4 cruisers and a science vessel. Cruisers being so tough to take down even with a focus fired alpha is the reason Science ships and escorts are always targeted first. It has nothing to do with MES.

Thats pretty much what you are going to be seeing if MES isnt fixed to a useable state......

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Against a competent Fed group I always got focus fired in my BoP once they noticed me. I'm not saying MES is perfect now, but it should not be returned to the way it was, not even close.

You guys can use the same tactic we did to save our alpha strikes for the weak escorts: Don't alpha strike cruisers, wait for the escorts to decloak, and then alpha strike them. That's how we did it as Klingons against the MES escorts. At least as a fed you know there's more than likely at least 1-2 BoP pilots on the kling side, imagine how screwed we are when we face 4 cruisers and a science vessel. Cruisers being so tough to take down even with a focus fired alpha is the reason Science ships and escorts are always targeted first. It has nothing to do with MES.

theres a reason why cruisers are one of the most common ships in pvp... because its nearly impossible to alpha-strike them without multiple people. And I already covered about bad players using cloaks.

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Thats pretty much what you are going to be seeing if MES isnt fixed to a useable state......

You're asking for it to be returned to its former strength, not for it to be balanced and fair to klingons. Actually if MES ever goes back to the way it was, it'll favor Klingons more. Feds are crying that they need cloaks to survive as an escort, and that's simply untrue. Teamplay is key, as well as fitting survivability in your escort. Whether you have MES or not you'll always be targeted first as an escort. Stay near cruisers/science ships that have defense/support. If you have none, then you're just as screwed as any BoP pilot.

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So I was fighting a fed escort and his science ship buddy today. The science ship had good shields and so was hard to kill. He was buffing the escort with shield repair and I couldn't get through his shields before he had me damaged enough that I had to hit cloak and evasive. It is very possible to survive as an escort, it just isnt the solopwnmobile that you seem to think that it should be.

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You're asking for it to be returned to its former strength, not for it to be balanced and fair to klingons. Actually if MES ever goes back to the way it was, it'll favor Klingons more. Feds are crying that they need cloaks to survive as an escort, and that's simply untrue. Teamplay is key, as well as fitting survivability in your escort. Whether you have MES or not you'll always be targeted first as an escort. Stay near cruisers/science ships that have defense/support. If you have none, then you're just as screwed as any BoP pilot.

when you get 3 of the 5 initial alpha strikes something is wrong though. my last game of open beta I dropped MES to let every klink know I had it (was the only escort on the team), then reMESed. about a minute later 2 people alpha striked, I didn't unmes for about 30 seconds when the other people realized i wasnt going to give them the chance to alpha strike me and they uncloaked. By that time the 4 other ships in my group had eaten one of them and forced the other to run for his life. point being -> if you wait it out your going to do better.

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I sll find it funny that people think a certain ship class should have an ability to keep it alive because klingon players decided that it should be the first to die.

What if we decided that science ships should die first....should they get a magical vanishing trick or invulnerable trait?

It should either be taken out or made worse than the cloak.

From the sounds of it, its ABOUT on par with cloak. You get your shields up BUT its range is drastically reduced. Sounds like a decent trade off.

Its not an attack ability, but a stealthy movement ability.(nor is it a get out of combat free card.)

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when you get 3 of the 5 initial alpha strikes something is wrong though. my last game of open beta I dropped MES to let every klink know I had it (was the only escort on the team), then reMESed. about a minute later 2 people alpha striked, I didn't unmes for about 30 seconds when the other people realized i wasnt going to give them the chance to alpha strike me and they uncloaked. By that time the 4 other ships in my group had eaten one of them and forced the other to run for his life. point being -> if you wait it out your going to do better.

Thats why you need klingons with sensor sweep. :rolleyes:

And waiting that long is pointless, shoulda been dpsing and watching for you, not outright trying to bait, unless they actually baited (like EM and fly off or something.)

RSP basically negates someone jumping you, gives you plenty of time to break off and paste the escort.

edit: its far from necessary, the problem with MES was the fact it was strong enough that the only real way to detect it was with a sci ship + sensor sweep, the first which klingons dont even get till T5.

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I sll find it funny that people think a certain ship class should have an ability to keep it alive because klingon players decided that it should be the first to die.

What if we decided that science ships should die first....should they get a magical vanishing trick or invulnerable trait?

It should eitehr be taken out or made worse than the cloak.

your thinking about it wrong. its not that they have an ability to keep them alive, its that they have an ability to *suggest* that you target someone else first and not them 100% of the time. If you want an ability to keep an escort alive when klinks decide it needs to die your looking at the wrong thing. RSP is over there --->

Thats why you need klingons with sensor sweep. :rolleyes:

And waiting that long is pointless, shoulda been dpsing and watching for you, not outright trying to bait, unless they actually baited (like EM and fly off or something.)

RSP basically negates someone jumping you, gives you plenty of time to break off and paste the escort.

Ever had the first Klink going in full impulse ram a cruiser and oneshot it? ya, that wasnt fun :eek:

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Ever had the first Klink going in full impulse ram a cruiser and oneshot it? ya, that wasnt fun :eek:

Yea, well, I hear Eve is just like that, and the damage scaling with speed (specifically FI) is already noted as a problem, people one shot the fleet action bosses. 2million damage! woooooooo

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when you get 3 of the 5 initial alpha strikes something is wrong though. my last game of open beta I dropped MES to let every klink know I had it (was the only escort on the team), then reMESed. about a minute later 2 people alpha striked, I didn't unmes for about 30 seconds when the other people realized i wasnt going to give them the chance to alpha strike me and they uncloaked. By that time the 4 other ships in my group had eaten one of them and forced the other to run for his life. point being -> if you wait it out your going to do better.


A coordinated Klingon group would watch for you to decloak and then switch targets to focus fire you. I did this many times in beta. We knew, we watched, not that Klingons were always coordinated enough to do it properly.

The problem with this particular group of Klingons is that they should all have decloaked and started beating on whoever, then just swapped targets and hit rapid fire+torps, not have half the group decloak while the rest wait. At most 1 could have waited cloaked for you.

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your thinking about it wrong. its not that they have an ability to keep them alive, its that they have an ability to *suggest* that you target someone else first and not them 100% of the time. If you want an ability to keep an escort alive when klinks decide it needs to die your looking at the wrong thing. RSP is over there --->



Ever had the first Klink going in full impulse ram a cruiser and oneshot it? ya, that wasnt fun :eek:


I'm sorry, but its not different in any other game.

I'm sure priests and other healers hate having a giant, KILL ME FIRST icon around their necks in WOW pvp...or ANY mmo that has a healer type.

You learn to deal with it and move on.

Those that can manage with that class will play it. Those that dont, QQ and move on.

We all get ganked and exploded in the face with barrages of death. L2dealwithit.

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I'm sorry, but its not different in any other game.

I'm sure priests and other healers hate having a giant, KILL ME FIRST icon around their necks in WOW pvp...or ANY mmo that has a healer type.

You learn to deal with it and move on.

Those that can manage with that class will play it. Those that dont, QQ and move on.

We all get ganked and exploded in the face with barrages of death. L2dealwithit.

I love the klinks idea about this, learn to deal and move on, nothing constructive about anything you have posted at all.

You people act like you wont be able to kill anyone if mes works like it ust to, minus a few things), all it does is keep escorts from getting the brunt of the first attack, which they will get and do get everytime. If fed dps has no chance to survive then there wont be any.

Ya sure it all sounds good when you have a team and such but why should any class have to rely on haivng a team to be able to play or be able to survive. Escorts know there squishy and know they cant tank at all. But getting the alpha strike everytime and lasting a few seconds ruins the class and ruins the game.....

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I love the klinks idea about this, learn to deal and move on, nothing constructive about anything you have posted at all.

You people act like you wont be able to kill anyone if mes works like it ust to, minus a few things), all it does is keep escorts from getting the brunt of the first attack, which they will get and do get everytime. If fed dps has no chance to survive then there wont be any.

Ya sure it all sounds good when you have a team and such but why should any class have to rely on haivng a team to be able to play or be able to survive. Escorts know there squishy and know they cant tank at all. But getting the alpha strike everytime and lasting a few seconds ruins the class and ruins the game.....


There have already been MANY MANY constructive posts about MES on the forum since closed beta.

NOTHING more needs to be said.

Everyone KNEW the nerf was coming. It wasn't a secret at all. IN FACT, according to the devs, MES was bugged.

It will never be put back to its previous power level and will have a SPECIFIC function. Sadly that function wont be, " Plz jesus save my arse with a battle cloak, errr I mean MES.."

Feds dont get a cloak.
Move on.

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MES is bugged but when repaired, while not be revived to it's previous strength.

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MES was used as a tactic to NOT get the alpha strike, which happens EVERYTIME now, when you can be seen 18km or better away the skill is useless.

Without MES escorts have no ability to do what they are supposed to do and that is create dps, escorts hulls can not sustain 4 or 5 klinks at once and that is what happens with the new MES.

So not only do we get the alpha strike now but we get it with our shields down.

so lets see, klinks can see us at 18km or better, they run up on us cloaked and fire almost point blank on us with our shields down. There is nothing that can save an escort from that.

Point being escorts are useless now.......

This post really makes my point. This is not about escorts with or without MES being alpha striked, but YOU in an escort being alpha striked. To be even more exact, it is about YOU having the ship and equipment of a Fed WITH a cloak so you can do all the alpha striking. You know how I know this? Because there have been reasonable suggestions for MES from changing your ship signature to appear as an ally (very defensive) to reducing the detection range to something like 9 km before you are visible to the enemy (more offensive in nature but still defensive). Both reasonable and livable for both sides, but you still insist it is broken and want it back to the way it was. A 30km cloaking range with 0% detection chance and the ability to fire without having to drop it while the shields remain up even with it on. Any further argument in that vein just convinces the DEVS they were entirely correct that MES as it was was best nerfed as it was being used as a cloak for the feds and a second cloak for the klinks to give overpowered advantages to both factions.

And speaking of the DEVS, from a reply you directed towards me earlier, you do not know me. Nor do you know entirely what relationship I do or do not have with any of the DEVS. You make an assumption that I am not privy to the inner politics and discussions. That one maybe two of the DEVS are not related to me in some fashion. Or not. That is the bad thing about assumptions, you just do not quite know do you.

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This post really makes my point. This is not about escorts with or without MES being alpha striked, but YOU in an escort being alpha striked. To be even more exact, it is about YOU having the ship and equipment of a Fed WITH a cloak so you can do all the alpha striking. You know how I know this? Because there have been reasonable suggestions for MES from changing your ship signature to appear as an ally (very defensive) to reducing the detection range to something like 9 km before you are visible to the enemy (more offensive in nature but still defensive). Both reasonable and livable for both sides, but you still insist it is broken and want it back to the way it was. A 30km cloaking range with 0% detection chance and the ability to fire without having to drop it while the shields remain up even with it on. Any further argument in that vein just convinces the DEVS they were entirely correct that MES as it was was best nerfed as it was being used as a cloak for the feds and a second cloak for the klinks to give overpowered advantages to both factions.

And speaking of the DEVS, from a reply you directed towards me earlier, you do not know me. Nor do you know entirely what relationship I do or do not have with any of the DEVS. You make an assumption that I am not privy to the inner politics and discussions. That one maybe two of the DEVS are not related to me in some fashion. Or not. That is the bad thing about assumptions, you just do not quite know do you.

This is spot on.

The people who argued before it was nerfed that it was fine, and threw all sorts of bogus arguments out and lied about the efficacy did nothing to help themselves. If the devs see someone being deceptive about an ability, they know that something is fishy, and there has been nothing BUT that about MES.

Simply put, it was a non combat cloak that worked better than cloak in every way. Feds used it to bypass PVE content, and to get a "klingon but with better ships" advantage in pvp.

The lies, deception, and bluster has only made people look like they -knew- it was wrong all along, but have been trying to maintain something they were exploiting, and knew they were exploiting.

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Lol man this is getting good, you guys still cant see the problem, you want to make it out to be a short fall of a player and not a broken game mechanic that without it limits the escort's viability.

As it sits right now escorts are pretty much useless in pvp period. If you had read the 500 or so posts previous you would have seen that its NOT about DOING an alpha strike its about AVOIDING one.

We dont have full groups using MES similiar to how you klinks work, we use it for one pourpose and that is to NOT get the alpha strike. I dont know how many more ways to spell it out.

Its not about having an advantage, which MES does not give us, its about not getting blown to pieces EVERYTIME you load in or even go to a fight.

I know you klinks only care about yourselfs and if MES worked correctly you would actually have to gear your ships and BO's out to be able to detect it, which you do not want to do.

Really i dont care if your having a devs baby, your constant blathering has only shown me that you care nothing about a balance in the game and that you only want to be able to do what you want to do and damn the rest.

I admit in the past state you were able to do stuff that you shoudl not have been able to do, as in take objectives, but MES was detectable and it was not a win mode,

I do apperciate your posts though, you have kept the post going and i hope it stays close to the top so the devs do see it, or better yet call one of your dev buddies that you may or may not be privy to and tell them to take a look, would save alot of time posting.

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MES will never go back to the way it was. Get over it and either res up your crappy little escort or get in a different ship.

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MES will never go back to the way it was. Get over it and either res up your crappy little escort or get in a different ship.

Lol thats a good attitude to have :)

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Actualyl played against MES alot today and I have to say that the skill is fine.

Break my lock on you.
For some reason you can still fire and I cant see you.

So its a sensor jam of sorts and not a cloak.

I can live with that.

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Actualyl played against MES alot today and I have to say that the skill is fine.

Break my lock on you.
For some reason you can still fire and I cant see you.

So its a sensor jam of sorts and not a cloak.

I can live with that.

MES doesnt break lock, cant rember the name of it but the skill makes your targeting move to another and you cant target them for 15 seconds, then there is another skill that makes all enemies appear allies, believe thats Jam Sensors.

With MES current state you cant fire with it on, you have to manually turn it off to fire. Previous version we could fire with it on and it would auto drop.

MES is detectable from 18 km away as we have it right now and you can target them with the skill on from that far away.

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In dogfghting, vanishing from my target lock so I'm shooting at someone else......moving out of my sight, start firing so I have no idea where I'm getting hit because you're still invisible for at least 2 seconds......if I want to target you again I need to visually find you or tab to you.

The skill is fine.

It disrupts the combat and the player. Takes the heat off of your butt.

It isn't a get out of combat free card anymore. *shrugs*

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In dogfghting, vanishing from my target lock so I'm shooting at someone else......moving out of my sight, start firing so I have no idea where I'm getting hit because you're still invisible for at least 2 seconds......if I want to target you again I need to visually find you or tab to you.

The skill is fine.

It disrupts the combat and the player. Takes the heat off of your butt.

It isn't a get out of combat free card anymore. *shrugs*

You are clearly confused, since the skill can't even be used while in combat.

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Is something else being used on me that does what I'm saying?

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Is something else being used on me that does what I'm saying?

I explained what it is in my reply to you.

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I explained what it is in my reply to you.

I have other people saying that what I'm experiencing is MES. So how many cloaking abilities ARE THERE?

What else am I getting hit by? Because this is IN combat, while shooting at someone.

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I will give you a free clue riyx.

Your tactical officers shouldn't be in raptors.

Think about that one for a minute.

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I have other people saying that what I'm experiencing is MES. So how many cloaking abilities ARE THERE?

What else am I getting hit by? Because this is IN combat, while shooting at someone.

JAM TARGETTING SENSORS... seriously... you use it on an opponent and it placates them for X seconds, placate makes you turn invisible to them (countered by science team)

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JAM TARGETTING SENSORS... seriously... you use it on an opponent and it placates them for X seconds, placate makes you turn invisible to them (countered by science team)

hmmm could have been.

Guess I'm wrong.

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hmmm could have been.

Guess I'm wrong.

Go to the BO skill seller and read the skills he has listed, look up that skill and see what it does, you have access to all the skills.....

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I will give you a free clue riyx.

Your tactical officers shouldn't be in raptors.

Think about that one for a minute.

Why even point that at me, do i sound like i play a klink?

As usual your not reading the posts and tossing out your idealogy or your smart arse quips....

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I did not go through the entire 233 posts.. can someone sum up what they did to MES? what exactly was nerf? I love this skill as a Fed Science and was planning to use it.. so what the issues now?

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I did not go through the entire 233 posts.. can someone sum up what they did to MES? what exactly was nerf? I love this skill as a Fed Science and was planning to use it.. so what the issues now?

You can be seen from 18 km or greater, once its activated your shields drop and you have to turn it off to be able to engage, thats abit of it. More or less the only thing it does that it did in beta is turn your ship black.

So they see you with it on and alpha strike you with all shields down.... not a pretty picture lol

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Nobody cares about your epeen so no screenies are needed, the point is wihtout MES you take a class out of the game. Escorts get alpha strike EVERYTIME now, the class is almost unplayable.

Yes MES had issues, as in capping bases with it on, that aside if you klinks set yourself up to pop it or hell even used mines MES was nulified. But no its too much work to load a mine launcher on your ship, it cuts down on your DPS and thats all you worry about.....being able to drop on a target tear it to pieces and then cloaking out.

For an escort to be able to survive it is required to have MES period. When you guys start running up against 3 to 4 science vessels in a pvp match you will wish they had not changed MES............ Just wait till you have Viral chained on you then we will see....

ok calm down and think... First both sides used mes not just feds so both sides are effected by the changes. Since the begining they DEVs have stated FEDS would not have a cloak which is what Mes had become so they adjusted it to brign it more inline which their intended function of it.

FEDs want mes brought back to normal str so that their escorts are not the first target focused fired
Problem is with the old mez FEDs would easily focus fire on the klingon escorts so it is a draw as to which side is hurt more
FEDs are concerned that their escorts are to easy to kill with focused fire while ignoring the fact that at tier 2 the only ships klingons have are escorts which are easier to kill with focused fire as we have weaken hulls/shields compared to FED ships and at the latter tiers klingon and Feds escorts are equally at risk.
FEDs have easier access to green and blue gear which again effects the ship str balance.
FEDs are concerned about apha strikes against their un Mesed escorts as oppossed to the Alpha strikes to the klingon escorts.
FEDs use the FED ball an easy tactic to use and which allows them to Focus fire easier. klingons with predominatly front fireign ships with weaker hull and shields ( which is ok since we have cloak) can not do a Klingon ball and do not want to.
Good FED groups win at pvp just as much as good klingon groups do with the changes to Mes.

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I'm sorry, but its not different in any other game.

I'm sure priests and other healers hate having a giant, KILL ME FIRST icon around their necks in WOW pvp...or ANY mmo that has a healer type.

You learn to deal with it and move on.

Those that can manage with that class will play it. Those that dont, QQ and move on.

We all get ganked and exploded in the face with barrages of death. L2dealwithit.

here here well said.

With the old mes i alwasy got focused fire on in my Bop did i give up flying my Bop even at the higher lvls where i could have moved into a crusier No. I adjusted both my tactics, My boffs and their skills and the type of gear i used.

When VM started to get usded and klingons and others screamed it was OP people will remember that i started a thread in beta about how to counter it instead of whinning that it was OP.
I used the old Mes in my build even as a klingon in a Bop. Now i am adjusting my build to compesate for the changes in Mes. People just need to adapt instead of whinning. Perhaps the fact I alwasy played the healer or enchanter in other games and am use to being the first strike target helps keep my calm here.

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MES doesnt break lock, cant rember the name of it but the skill makes your targeting move to another and you cant target them for 15 seconds, then there is another skill that makes all enemies appear allies, believe thats Jam Sensors.

With MES current state you cant fire with it on, you have to manually turn it off to fire. Previous version we could fire with it on and it would auto drop.

MES is detectable from 18 km away as we have it right now and you can target them with the skill on from that far away.

scamble sensros is aoe that makes foes appear and friends
jam sensors maked the one attacker unable to target you for 15 seconds.

Cloak has to be manualy turned off before you can fire
Mes your shields are up while with cloak they are down
Mes your shields regen as normal while with Cloak they do not.
new Mes can be dected with the right set up of skills and boffs just as cloak can be detected easier with the right set up.

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Why even point that at me, do i sound like i play a klink?

As usual your not reading the posts and tossing out your idealogy or your smart arse quips....

i think he point was that all klingons have at tier 2 is escorts and at higher lvls when they get more ship choices they decide which to choose based on play style and tactics and do not just go i am a tac i must take a raptor.

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I did not go through the entire 233 posts.. can someone sum up what they did to MES? what exactly was nerf? I love this skill as a Fed Science and was planning to use it.. so what the issues now?

they brough mez more inline with cloak. ie your shild are down when it is inuse and you have to manualy turn it off to fire just like cloak. The devs have stated there is a bug as to its range detection and that they are working on fixing that. Just as there was a bug in cloak with range detection at one point whiched they fixed

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they brough mez more inline with cloak. ie your shild are down when it is inuse and you have to manualy turn it off to fire just like cloak. The devs have stated there is a bug as to its range detection and that they are working on fixing that. Just as there was a bug in cloak with range detection at one point whiched they fixed

The brought it more inline except for the fact that with MES you get seen from 18k away by a non-stealthed enemy. It'd be one thing if a stealthed target was seeing you since they get a perceived stealth bonus allowing them to better detect other stealthed ships, but that isn't the case, uncloaked ships are able to spot someone using MES from 18k.

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baaddare just out of curiousity have you ever heard of the "EDIT" button? the point of it is to avoid double posting, or in your case QUINTUPLE-posting. all it does is annoy people.

and it's been a LONG day at work so I'm just going to avoid this topic tonight

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baaddare just out of curiousity have you ever heard of the "EDIT" button? the point of it is to avoid double posting, or in your case QUINTUPLE-posting. all it does is annoy people.

and it's been a LONG day at work so I'm just going to avoid this topic tonight

ah well sorry i am not an expert on thread posting. personally a post about information concernign the game is much less annoying to me that one that just complains about posts.

I would point out i was quoting and responding to mutiple posts by other people and unlike others i like to make sure people know exactly which and whose post I am responding too.

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The brought it more inline except for the fact that with MES you get seen from 18k away by a non-stealthed enemy. It'd be one thing if a stealthed target was seeing you since they get a perceived stealth bonus allowing them to better detect other stealthed ships, but that isn't the case, uncloaked ships are able to spot someone using MES from 18k.

the 18k is the part the devs are saying is bugged and the part they are working on to fix. It is the same issue that occured when they tuned cloaking. In that case we coudl be seen from 13k out with out any special skills or powers. The devs thouhgt we could be seen at 5k or less then. After we got a DEV to come in game and to see what had happen they fixed in a few patchs latter. I am sure that soon you will see the detection range fixed to a much reduced distance.

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ah well sorry i am not an expert on thread posting. personally a post about information concernign the game is much less annoying to me that one that just complains about posts.

I would point out i was quoting and responding to mutiple posts by other people and unlike others i like to make sure people know exactly which and whose post I am responding too.

even in that case you can easily start a new comment, then copy the quote and edit it into the previous post. While I don't mean to offend its a massive eyesore and disrupts the flow of comments.

Edit:

the 18k is the part the devs are saying is bugged and the part they are working on to fix. It is the same issue that occured when they tuned cloaking. In that case we coudl be seen from 13k out with out any special skills or powers. The devs thouhgt we could be seen at 5k or less then. After we got a DEV to come in game and to see what had happen they fixed in a few patchs latter. I am sure that soon you will see the detection range fixed to a much reduced distance.

truthfully the ability to cloak and not get seen from 19k away in pvp is kind of what the people here have been arguing.