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-   -   Stop the cloak hate - add good OPTIONS (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102860)

Archived Post 02-04-2010 01:42 PM

Stop the cloak hate - add good OPTIONS
 
This issue is not going to go away. I have played both Klingons and Federation up through commander. There isn't much of an insurmountable imbalance to the space PvP in the actual combat. Organization and team tactics will consistently win matches for the better team.

As for the cloaking issue:
"Hmm.. our sensors are picking up a high residual neutrino level consistent with the output of a Bird of Prey class scout vessel. They seem to be more numerous in that direction. Background radiation is making it impossible to tell how recently they were here but judging by the number of neutrinos they seem to still be in this system. Set a course in that direction and prepare to scan again in another thirty seconds when our sensor dish capacitor has enough energy built up. Prepare to activate a charged particle burst as well."


The problem comes with the fact the average Federation player will never be happy playing deathmatch PvP in this game as it is designed now. Federation players have been conditioned by being able to charge into a group of enemies and survive. They always have this option to do so in PvE. The instant gratification of mowing down PvE targets turns to incredible frustration when you cannot force a confrontation with your opponent.

Some players say: "This is as designed - Klingons are the agressors and the Federation should be the defensive side." What a load of crap! Do not teach this to new players. Let them know the options available and join with them to demand that better options be made available. Half the time in my beginner's BoP when I hit someone with Jam Sensors they thought I had cloaked. Klingons, stop telling the Federation to be happy as sheep. They won't be and you will suffer the nerfs as a result. Lobby to fix the game so it can be fun for both sides for all of the captain careers and ship types - especially in the intro tiers so we don't lose players.

Using the fact that "canon says that is the way it works" is weak sauce. Where is the sensor grid along the neutral zone? In every one of the shows where it was essential to find a cloaked ship the "heroes" come up with a means to do so. As I remember they could also determine when one was "in the area" due to some plot device or other.

The Fed Ball is very effective but if the Federation ships had any option to seek not many Feds would have the patience to sit in it and wait. Giving them the ability to close with a distant enemy will provide more chances to ambush them than just waiting for them to get bored while hidden anyway - which is apparently what a few poster are suggesting. Klingon ships can outrun nearly all of their Fed equivalents. If the Feds give chase they will become spread out.

The game develops into a skill vs. skill match as players gain experience and abilities. It is a game of skill vs. counterskill.. and your team may not have the counter to the skill being used against you if you don't have the right mix for this situation in your fleet. I was in a Federation fleet of all engineering captains in cruisers against an enemy fleet spamming viral matrix. Boy did that suck - we had only one ship with the science team skill and none of us had attack pattern omega and we got beaten badly. That doesn't mean the opponent's skill was overpowered - we were just not prepared to face it. It happens. If you go into battle against a fleet that cloaks and you do not have any ships set up to counter this then you will be at a severe disadvantage. PuGs can be horrid like that.

The game mechanic that allows cloaked ships to avoid being hunted at range is what must changed here. There must be something added which allows players to force their enemies to remain active in the match. Not necessarily in direct combat, but active in some way. The easy solution might be match timers. This would be a lazy and thoughtless solution. But I don't mind long matches. I just hate tedious ones. Timers would also allow the Federation to sit in the ball and the Klingons would lose if they didn't crack that tough nut every time. More options are needed.

Allowing one side the option of not entering the conflict regardless of their rolpeplaying or tactical reason do do so is a serious design error. Cloak detection inside 10k with current captain abilities, BO skills, ship equipment, and appropriate aux power levels is fine. It does work. Escaping combat using evasive manuevers/engine battery/cloak while effective, is not a sure thing and that too is o.k.

Something is needed so that if a cloaked ship - or any enemy ship for that matter - does not actively and skillfully avoid seeking ships that it will be found by a team set up to do so. Anywhere on the map. At any range. period. Winning or losing by not participating should not be an option. In another thread I proposed a BO skill which would act as a direction finder (with a cooldown between uses) to the nearest enemy ship - regardless of whether or not it is cloaked. All parties on both sides would have access to a skill which determines the direction of the nearest enemy within a system. Shouldn't be too tough to code and it could use a recolored version of the anomaly scan graphic for simplicity.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 01:53 PM

If cloak can be detected, or if the players in cloaking ship will have to play some sort of silly minigame in order to avoid detection then lets just simply remove it. Give Klinks bigger shields and hulls and take away the cloak entirely. It would be redicilous to allow a faction the benefit of a first strike and then simply take it away through the use of a bunch of "directional" or "situational" scans. Lets just not have the cloak at all, that way both factions will start on equal footing.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GnawLF
If cloak can be detected, or if the players in cloaking ship will have to play some sort of silly minigame in order to avoid detection then lets just simply remove it. Give Klinks bigger shields and hulls and take away the cloak entirely. It would be redicilous to allow a faction the benefit of a first strike and then simply take it away through the use of a bunch of "directional" or "situational" scans. Lets just not have the cloak at all, that way both factions will start on equal footing.

Actually let's just get rid of Klingons entirely. Reskin it as mirror universe, and give us the same ships modified a bit. Yes let's just completely take away any originality the 2 factions might have, except that one is evil and one likes teddy bears.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonster
Actually let's just get rid of Klingons entirely. Reskin it as mirror universe, and give us the same ships modified a bit. Yes let's just completely take away any originality the 2 factions might have, except that one is evil and one likes teddy bears.

Fantastic Idea.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:30 PM

Yeah for that matter lets take our shields away and our BO's aswell and llet the feddy's have there monster play

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonster
Actually let's just get rid of Klingons entirely. Reskin it as mirror universe, and give us the same ships modified a bit. Yes let's just completely take away any originality the 2 factions might have, except that one is evil and one likes teddy bears.

But the evil one will attract PvP'ers who put time and effort into builds and skills. I CRY OP!

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:34 PM

go back into your fedball and shutup

thx

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:42 PM

How would this get rid of first strikes?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GnawLF
If cloak can be detected, or if the players in cloaking ship will have to play some sort of silly minigame in order to avoid detection then lets just simply remove it. Give Klinks bigger shields and hulls and take away the cloak entirely. It would be redicilous to allow a faction the benefit of a first strike and then simply take it away through the use of a bunch of "directional" or "situational" scans. Lets just not have the cloak at all, that way both factions will start on equal footing.

Think it through and don't just have a knee-jerk "I don't want to change cloak" reaction. No minigame - just no indefinite invincibility option. Merely taking away the ability to park at 30k and go afk to grab a sandwich. Nothing would change within 10k. The Klingon first strike is already at risk from a scanning vessel.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:58 PM

I wish I was surprised by the replies..
 
I was hoping for better constructive thoughts to help design better gameplay for both factions. Instead I get absolute thoughtless garbage.

You do realize that in order to be effective this would take at least 2 ships alternating their scans. In a 5v5 that is 2 science BOs in a 5-ship fleet. Two less buffs/heals/debuffs.. At the first tier that is a huge loss to even an organized team. You just gave up a tractor beam, a jam sensors or something else which puts you at an advantage against your opponent. There is no way to close on an enemy ship which want to evade while doing this scanning which would keep your energy levels high enough for effective combat. There is no good way to keep the fed ball intact and give chase at full impulse to ships which are faster than your cruisers. Feds would be led into countless ambushes instead of their only option being to sit and wait.. and you think this unfairly penalizes the Klingons.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:59 PM

I see no issue with the cloaking. It sucks that they can come and go "at will", but they are not designed to take as much damage as we are. They trade their shield/structure for the ability to enter and exit battle at their discretion. We have to utilize good teamwork to be effective. To me, teamwork should be encouraged, therefore I appreciate it.

Leave cloaking the way it is.

Let them come. ;-]


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