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Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:13 PM

Magai Escorts + Plasma Torpedos overpowered?
Iím interested to see your thoughts on this forum, and a GM or dev post would be divine of course.

I just started the first story missions in the Romulan sectors and in the space battles Iíve been torn to pieces, shredded, yes utterly humiliated by the Romulan/Reman Magai Escort ships.

I personally fly a tier2 escort ship with front 2 dual cannons + photon torpedos and in aft Iíve got a beam.

Every single time Iíve engaged a single Magai Escort ship the following happens:

-the magai turns towards me
- fires a couple of salvos
-activates something similar to Attack Pattern Alpha (itís got the same visual effect and seems to have the same ingame mechanic effect: +Weapons damage, +critchance, +crit severity + turn rate)
-immediately activates something similar to Evasive Manoeuvres (again same visual effect and I suspect same ingame mechanic effect: + turn rate, +speed, +defence)
-it flys at astonishing near full impulse speed towards me and is basically right next to me or behind me within 1-3seconds.
-it then fires a triple photon torpedo and/or a couple of cannon shots
-and now the ultimate Ąpiece de resistanceď remaining less than 2km away from me it fires a heavy plasma torpedo.
-the heavy plasma torpedo flys towards me for less than a single second which makes it impossible to shoot down (at least for me) and hits

The result is: my shields are down on at least 2 sides, Iíve taken 20-40% hull damage (depending on the prior attacks of the magai) and the magai is not hurt at all.
I usually try to pull it together, fight for honour and glory, cry scream yell bite, switch energy to shields, but it doesnít do enough because: after approx. 8-12sec. The magai starts the entire thing again. So again attack pattern alpha, etc. and thatís the end of me.
Iíve managed to destroy a Magai after 6 deaths. 6 deaths for one shipÖ

Now here are my thoughts:

 I like the idea of a fast enemy which comes really close so an escort has to turn, aim and fight uncomfortably. (at least for a cannon-equipped escort close quarter combat is uncomfortable)

 I like the idea of a powerful destructive torpedo that flys really slow and can be shot down.

 I like the idea that the AI uses similar powers as the players. A level playing field makes a kill all the more enjoyable.

But I think the magai is overpowered. At least in the form described above. I can block 1 Magai close encounter of the killing kind with ĄJam targeting sensorsď and Ąbrace for impactď but after 8-12 seconds the magai launches the same attack and my defence abilities are still on timerÖ.

So a solution to my problem would be: give the magai escort the same ability timers as players haveÖ. So if a fight takes too long itíll just blast me again with the same devastating attacks BUT: Iíve got a chance to block it. If I miss that chance Iíll be destroyed but at least that would be my fault.

The second real concern for me is the plasma torpedos.

1. If I fire a photon torpedo, or a quantum torpedo (havenít had the chance to try the others yet, so Iím happy for input) and Iím too close to the torpedos explosion I get damaged. I like this Game-mechanic. If Iím too close to a big boom itís going to hurt me. So why doesnít the magai take damage from the Plasma torpedo explosion in close proximity? Other AI ships take damage from explosions if they are 0-3km close to it, so why does the magai ignore that?

2. the whole idea behind the plasma torpedo is its long range slow approach with a big bang if it hits. If I ignore a plasma torpedo coming at me, itís going to hurt me big time. But I can shoot it down before, sacrificing DPS for my own survival. I like this game mechanic. But for me this only works long range. If I donít have the time to shot the thing down, or turn away or something else then itís simply too darn powerful in my opinion.

I see 2 possible solutions:

1. if the magai escort AI (or any ship for that matter) Ąchoosesď to fire a plasma torpedo at point blank close range, then the following explosion will hurt it as well. That gives the plasma torpedo a double purpose: fire out of long range and safe distance, but risk it being shot down, or fly in close, shoot it in a short range battle and itíll possibly be a suicide attack, or at least very painful to the firing ship.
2. give the plasma torpedo a minimal distance-mechanic. I would think 5 km would be a good idea. 5km gives the attacked ship enough time to scramble a desperate defence, but is still uncomfortably short.

Iím looking forward to reading your responsesÖ. Thanks in advance.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:22 PM

It takes far longer than that for the Mogais Attack Pattern and Evasive Maneuvers to recharge. While it will launch the torpedo again in short order, there is no reason for you to be at 2km if you don't want to be.

You might try using Engineering Team to give you extra breathing room.

You can also try operating in high Speed /Evasive Maneuvers on your initial approach. Many of the Mogais shots will Miss and you can shoot down the torp at leisure.


back in CB Mogais occasionally fired heavy plasmas every 3s or so at point blank :eek:

and be careful of D'dederixes and Apex Battleships... they get the Viral Matrix hold which completely stops you from acting and love to follow it up with torps :eek:

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:24 PM

I have not fought then, but what about repulsor beam? should throw the ship back and maybe damage or knockback the plasma torp?

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:24 PM

Yeah. The Magoi Escorts are the longest fights that I've been haing so far. With Evasive Maneuvers and Attack Pattern Alpha active they moving around like jack rabbits on crack. And point blank High Yield Plasma Torpedoes are irriatting. But I don't find them overly hard to deal with in my Science Ships.

I would like to see the AI of the Magoi changed so that they don't close into pointblank range and dtick to you like glue. I've spent many battles with my ship and the Magoi stack on top of one another for long stretches. It's just not something a ship caption would do unless they were trying to ram into me. I think the base turning base is too sharp to mesh well with the AI ship move routines. Adding the other turn buffs it loves to fire off exacerbates the problem loading to the jackrabbit on crack behavior.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:27 PM


Originally Posted by DeadlyShoe
Iand be careful of D'dederixes and Apex Battleships... they get the Viral Matrix hold which completely stops you from acting and love to follow it up with torps :eek:

The battleships are worse then that. They love to use Viral Matrix, Plasma Torps AND Tractor Beam at one after the other or very close together.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:27 PM

thats easy

try getting all subsystems deactivated by the battleship while it pounds on you...

the more challanging the more fun it is, so i like it

quest doesnt update for me thoi:P so i stoped doing it::D

oh and l2p

Archived Post 02-04-2010 02:36 PM

If you think the Escorts are bad, wait until you run into a Romulan Battleship.

Far, far more dangerous than Klingons due to the lack of reliance on fore-facing weapons and the use of disables.

Late T2 and early T3 is where you start to figure out that Escorts are very squishy and surprisingly difficult to solo with.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 03:51 PM

Trying using a Plasma Torpedo with HYT II and APA and let it go at point blank range and see what you hit for. People are talking 12k crits at point blank range. I have obly seen 6.5k non crit so far. Plasma Torpedo is all about close range.

Archived Post 02-04-2010 04:34 PM

In my t2 escort, by the time they have reached me with evasive, I have dropped their fwd shield, hit them with 2 quantum hy torps, and a rapid fire cannon cycle, and they have a sliver of life left. As soon as they come up on your left side and their evasive shuts off, use your own evasive and hit R for full throttle, move out about 5-6 km and do a 180 clockwise back to finish them off. During this time if they launch a plasma torp at you you can tab to it and your rear turret can down it in one shot usually.

I find the mogai fights to be rediculously repetative as it seems they use the same tactic over and over again.

Your milage may vary based on your loadout and how much dmg you are doing, and what kind of shield you are using. (I would think a regen shield would be horrible for this encounter)

Archived Post 02-04-2010 05:45 PM

I just cleared clear the last of the Romulan missions.

Zero deaths in space, two on the ground.

Ground deaths happened only because a Guard Captain took me by surprise each time.

I'm pretty sure the Mogai is not over powered. I crushed them easily with a cruiser. It might be that your escort is under-powered.

I do find it ridiculous how this ship, while being 2 to 3 times the size of my cruiser, can run rings around me BEFORE blowing its evasive maneuvers.

Does Starfleet not believe in maneuvering thrusters?

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