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-   -   i'm so sorry klingons... (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1068981)

captainpirko 03-30-2014 09:30 AM

i'm so sorry klingons...
 
i've long been one of those feddies that thinks the KDF needs more ships, more diversity, and more attention. however while i have 2 klingons, one of which has some good fleet gear in his level 40 BOP, i've never fully invested into a klingon character the way i have with my feddies.

then... then my fleet mate was talking about wanting to farm on his KDF, since he's maxed his foundry drops on his feddies. i thought "hey, that might be fun, KDF is different and all, we'll see what its like". though i decided i wanted to turn my klingon into an identical build to my feddie, as my feddie has some massive damage and survivability. knowing my BOP has 3 tactical consoles, and a fleet variant wasnt likely to get more then that, i looked at raptors, expecting them to be the closest in stats to my fleet MVAM. i scanned over the wiki looking at raiders, raptors, and destroyers. and after all that, i sat there.... and muttered to myself "what the hell cryptic..."

am i wrong, in exclaiming in befuddled confusion that klingons have NO fleet escorts with 5 tactical consoles??? i mean, no 5 forward weapons is a dumb oversight, but i understand the C-store deal with that. but when season 6 was going out, why did they give the feddies like 3-4 5 tactical console ships, some of which really didnt need that, and then give the KDF NOTHING with 5 tactical consoles?

a single raptor should have had a 5 tact, 3 eng, 2 science layout at the very least. it'd have lower hull to compensate for the cloak anyway so it'd be completely balanced with a fleet MVAM. heck, destroyers have no cloak at all, and none of them have 5 tactical either. :/

i'm sorry KDF, you really have the raw end of the stick....

burstorion 03-30-2014 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainpirko (Post 16048951)
i've long been one of those feddies that thinks the KDF needs more ships, more diversity, and more attention. however while i have 2 klingons, one of which has some good fleet gear in his level 40 BOP, i've never fully invested into a klingon character the way i have with my feddies.

then... then my fleet mate was talking about wanting to farm on his KDF, since he's maxed his foundry drops on his feddies. i thought "hey, that might be fun, KDF is different and all, we'll see what its like". though i decided i wanted to turn my klingon into an identical build to my feddie, as my feddie has some massive damage and survivability. knowing my BOP has 3 tactical consoles, and a fleet variant wasnt likely to get more then that, i looked at raptors, expecting them to be the closest in stats to my fleet MVAM. i scanned over the wiki looking at raiders, raptors, and destroyers. and after all that, i sat there.... and muttered to myself "what the hell cryptic..."

am i wrong, in exclaiming in befuddled confusion that klingons have NO fleet escorts with 5 tactical consoles??? i mean, no 5 forward weapons is a dumb oversight, but i understand the C-store deal with that. but when season 6 was going out, why did they give the feddies like 3-4 5 tactical console ships, some of which really didnt need that, and then give the KDF NOTHING with 5 tactical consoles?

a single raptor should have had a 5 tact, 3 eng, 2 science layout at the very least. it'd have lower hull to compensate for the cloak anyway so it'd be completely balanced with a fleet MVAM. heck, destroyers have no cloak at all, and none of them have 5 tactical either. :/

i'm sorry KDF, you really have the raw end of the stick....


Stick with the kdf and you'll get used to the dirty end of the stick - but just accept it as a challenge that will hone your gameplay

Kudos on not taking the easy path and going kdf romulan too

doffingcomrade 03-30-2014 09:42 AM

Nope. The fleet Escort selection is real slim. I think we can basically pick between "Imitation Defiant Without Tac Console" and "Imitation Patrol Escorts". If we dig through the Nausicaan lineup, we can put together a credible imitation of the Fed RA Adv Escort. And another Patrol Escort.

Number of C-Store Escorts: 1, the Guramba. Which has NO FLEET VERSION.

Suffice it to say, given a 4-module pricetag for Every Single Ship, you don't see a lot of KDF Fleet Escorts out there. The KDF Escort selection is in absolutely terrible shape.

BoP selection isn't any better: ONE C-Store option...which gets screwed over in its fleet incarnation, receiving a less than helpful Engi console instead of a useful Tac or Sci console.

The KDF Cruiser lineup is in slightly better shape. That is, to say, we can pick between TWO Klingon cruisers: The Bortasqu', and the Mogh. When you're looking for a Fleet-level cruiser, those are your only options short of paying an arm and a leg in modules for Fleet Torkle.

misterde3 03-30-2014 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainpirko (Post 16048951)
i've long been one of those feddies that thinks the KDF needs more ships, more diversity, and more attention. however while i have 2 klingons, one of which has some good fleet gear in his level 40 BOP, i've never fully invested into a klingon character the way i have with my feddies.

then... then my fleet mate was talking about wanting to farm on his KDF, since he's maxed his foundry drops on his feddies. i thought "hey, that might be fun, KDF is different and all, we'll see what its like". though i decided i wanted to turn my klingon into an identical build to my feddie, as my feddie has some massive damage and survivability. knowing my BOP has 3 tactical consoles, and a fleet variant wasnt likely to get more then that, i looked at raptors, expecting them to be the closest in stats to my fleet MVAM. i scanned over the wiki looking at raiders, raptors, and destroyers. and after all that, i sat there.... and muttered to myself "what the hell cryptic..."

am i wrong, in exclaiming in befuddled confusion that klingons have NO fleet escorts with 5 tactical consoles??? i mean, no 5 forward weapons is a dumb oversight, but i understand the C-store deal with that. but when season 6 was going out, why did they give the feddies like 3-4 5 tactical console ships, some of which really didnt need that, and then give the KDF NOTHING with 5 tactical consoles?

a single raptor should have had a 5 tact, 3 eng, 2 science layout at the very least. it'd have lower hull to compensate for the cloak anyway so it'd be completely balanced with a fleet MVAM. heck, destroyers have no cloak at all, and none of them have 5 tactical either. :/

i'm sorry KDF, you really have the raw end of the stick....

Welcome to the KDF, you're now a full-fledged Klingon whiner.:)

revandarklighter 03-30-2014 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doffingcomrade (Post 16049131)
Nope. The fleet Escort selection is real slim. I think we can basically pick between "Imitation Defiant Without Tac Console" and "Imitation Patrol Escorts". If we dig through the Nausicaan lineup, we can put together a credible imitation of the Fed RA Adv Escort. And another Patrol Escort.

The raptor is not an imitation Defiant. The Defiant is an imitation Raptor.
The Raptor was there first. They stole it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by burstorion (Post 16049111)
Stick with the kdf and you'll get used to the dirty end of the stick - but just accept it as a challenge that will hone your gameplay

Kudos on not taking the easy path and going kdf romulan too

Someone delivered a very touching speech gated to us kdf players... I believe...
Quote:

Far as I see it, you people been given the shortest end of the stick ever been offered a human soul in this crap-heel 'verse. But you took that end, and you - well, you took it. And that's - Well, I guess that's somethin'.
:P

captainpirko 03-30-2014 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doffingcomrade (Post 16049131)
Nope. The fleet Escort selection is real slim. I think we can basically pick between "Imitation Defiant Without Tac Console" and "Imitation Patrol Escorts". If we dig through the Nausicaan lineup, we can put together a credible imitation of the Fed RA Adv Escort. And another Patrol Escort.

Number of C-Store Escorts: 1, the Guramba. Which has NO FLEET VERSION.

Suffice it to say, given a 4-module pricetag for Every Single Ship, you don't see a lot of KDF Fleet Escorts out there. The KDF Escort selection is in absolutely terrible shape.

BoP selection isn't any better: ONE C-Store option...which gets screwed over in its fleet incarnation, receiving a less than helpful Engi console instead of a useful Tac or Sci console.

The KDF Cruiser lineup is in slightly better shape. That is, to say, we can pick between TWO Klingon cruisers: The Bortasqu', and the Mogh. When you're looking for a Fleet-level cruiser, those are your only options short of paying an arm and a leg in modules for Fleet Torkle.

i'm seriously thinking that i'll skip fleet entirely and go with the garamba. i'm used to not having a cloak anyway, and the built in beam thingy looks pretty badass, i dont care how good or bad it actually is. stats wise it competes with the best of the fleet lineup, but i can accept it on all my klingon characters instead of that singular one i buy from the fleet. the only advantage to fleet ships is that my feddie can loan my KDF the money to buy the fleet modules right away, whereas with this i'll have to save my dill for a while.

i now have an even greater desire to shoot anyone who calls us whiners. chewing gum lady from willy wonka and the chocolate factory was a whiner. KDF are victims of neglect, and conquerors of stacked odds. props to the klingon empire for conquering this disadvantage and being some of the most powerful in PVP.

ps. any suggestion for converting this multivector build http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...nightfire_5923 onto a guramba? its still an engineer character cause lets face it, they're amazing.

ursusmorologus 03-30-2014 10:46 AM

Avoid the Nausicaan ships if you plan to PVP, you will be the only KDF vessel without a cloak and they will jump you hard. Well, you can use Mask Energy Sig to get a fake cloak and it kinda works but its mandatory and expensive.

dorusnonn 03-30-2014 11:01 AM

Never thought, I'd see the day .. Pirko going KDF in such a dedicated fashion. :D

jjdez 03-30-2014 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainpirko (Post 16049861)
ps. any suggestion for converting this multivector build http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...nightfire_5923 onto a guramba? its still an engineer character cause lets face it, they're amazing.

Before you start moving any of this over to another ship, there are a few things you should consider to bring your MVAM up to date. This of course being said right before the release of a new season that will make you review it all yet again, but what can you do. I also did this 'update' with you specifically in mind, and knowing that while every now and then you stroll into the pvp queues, it isn't your #1 or even #2 thing to do in STO.

http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?...rkonightfire_0

WEAPONS:
Not sure what your dil/fc situation is, but for PvE I would consider getting [Dmg]x3 [CrtH] for your DHCs and turrets to help maximize the immediate CrtH and not depend on Acc overflow. I also dropped your Omnidirectional array, (explanation under warp core), and the Nukara Mines as most of your enemies should be in front of you stuck in your GW1 or the torps GW.

ENG/DEF/SHIELDS
I won't bother, I know you love the Aegis and want to keep using it.

WARP CORE
Dropped the Obelisk in favor of an Elite Fleet with AMP. I know you like the two piece bonus of +10% antiproton damage, but if used correctly with all power levels above 75, the fleet core will give you +14% ALL damage, not just antiproton.

DEVICES
Aux battery to boost all your sci abilities in case of emergency. I did drop the subspace thing all together in case you go into PvP and forget you can get slammed with proton damage now, don't want to make it easier for the vapers with -400 resistance on accident.

CONSOLES
Changed all tac consoles to the Locaters, again maxing CrtH is the name of the game these days plus your antiproton weapons come with innate CrtD already. Dropped the Monotanium and Jumper for things that are actually useful such as Zero Point (more CrtH etc), and Plasmonic Leech which will help you maintain all power levels above 75 (refer back to AMP bonus on the core).

BOFFS
Swapped CRF3 for CSV3, don't want to waste the work your GWs are doing by shooting at only one target. Swapped HY1 for TS1, torpedo spread never misses, use it over the already weak HY1. Swapped EPtS2 for EPtW2, with DOffs now you can have these both up 100% of the time anyway.

DOFFS
You didn't detail these in your build, so here's a basic setup:
Damage Control Engineer (x2) to reduce EPtX cooldowns
Projectile Weapons Officer (x2) keep those torps going
Warp Core Engineer (x1) chance for bonus power
Dlyrene (x1) extra damage to borg, STFs only obviously. This guy can be pricey though, so another option would be to use an Energy Weapons Officer (x1) for bonus shield power.

SPEC
Made some changes here you can go find, this is of course assuming you would even want to spend the zen for such a thing right now.

edit: Forgot to mention BOff species above. The blue romulan males from the embassy for all your tac slots, make the other two human.

warmaker001b 03-30-2014 12:03 PM

The Raptor / Destroyer line is in disarray. Ever since the Fleet ship system was implemented, they just don't stack up to the Fed lineup, much less the overpowered Warbirds with LOR. They'll perform fine for PVE, but PVP? No. Raptors and Nausicaan Destroyers are rare. Seeing one in PVP is like spotting Sasquatch. Their handling is average, survivability nothing special (Raptors have weaker shield mods), firepower average for Escorts. In other words, nothing special in the entire Raptor / Destroyer lineup. Even the Guramba doesn't have a Fleet version, and I know guys that will jump immediately to get a Fleet version, esp. if it's a more offense oriented one.

The BOPs have been overtaken by Power Creep. Simply put, Warbirds do everything and anything the KDF BOPs have ever tried to do, but Warbirds have no statistical compromise whatsoever. Full hull and shield mods, freebie Singularity Abilities, etc. The only thing BOPs have is the Universal stations and the classic look of the B'Rel. The Flanking bonus isn't in. The supposed +10% extra hull coming soon is like putting paper mache armor on an egg. Cryptic's design direction for the BOPs is questionable.

The Battlecruisers still hold up well but everyone has Battlecruisers now. Nothing unique here.

The only real advantage the KDF really has that is unique to itself is Carriers. KDF aligned Carriers are good and our hangar unit selection is still top notch without even diving into lockbox crap.


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