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-   -   The Capture times in Area Capture PvP are excessive (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=110122)

Archived Post 02-08-2010 01:32 PM

The Capture times in Area Capture PvP are excessive
 
I love the area capture pvp type in any game i play,except for STO. In any other game I have played MMO or not that has 5 points to capture it takes about 5-15 seconds,sometimes 20 to capture a enemy point. It usually takes anywhere from 5-10 times the capture time length to get in between the points furthest away from each other. This combined with the relatively small time frame to capture a point forces teams to split up and employ tactics in order to keep their points.

In STO you have a excessive 60 second capture time that doesn't encourage people to split up and use proper area control map type tactics. To fly between points that are furthest away from each other at full impulse it takes 20 seconds. The fact that it takes three times as long to capture a point as it does to go from in between the furthest points is ridiculous for the area control map type. This encourages the current tactic on this map, form up into one or two big groups and just fly between your 3 or 4 points and recapture them.

It is also really hard to see if you have locked a point or temporarily switched it to your team. This is pretty frustrating because if you fly away after 59 seconds of waiting the point goes back to neutral and you just wasted all of that time. Please add some sort of obvious timer so we know when a point is locked or just temporarily yours.

If it took 10-15 seconds to capture a neutral point and 20-25 seconds to capture a enemy point and they added timers then it would make this map type a lot more fun. Bug reports #581577,#581583

Archived Post 02-08-2010 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SlingBlades
I love the area capture pvp type in any game i play,except for STO. In any other game I have played MMO or not that has 5 points to capture it takes about 5-15 seconds,sometimes 20 to capture a enemy point. This relatively small time frame forces teams to split up and employ tactics in order to keep their points. It also gives them enough time to stop a capture.

In STO you have a excessive 60 second capture time that doesn't encourage people to split up and use proper area control map type tactics. To fly between the furthest points at full impulse it takes 20 seconds. The fact that it takes three times as long to capture a point as it does to go from in between the furthest points is ridiculous for the area control map type. This encourages the current tactic on this map, form up into one or two big groups and just fly between your 3 or 4 points and recapture them.

It is also really hard to see if you have locked a point or temporarily switched it to your team. This is pretty frustrating because if you fly away after 59 seconds of waiting the point goes back to neutral and you just wasted all of that time. Please add some sort of obvious timer so we know when a point is locked or just temporarily yours.

If it took 10-15 seconds to capture a neutral point and 20-25 seconds to capture a enemy point and they added timers then it would make this map type a lot more fun. Bug reports #581577,#581583

Yep, yep, hes right!

Archived Post 02-08-2010 01:41 PM

it should go without saying but the more people you have with you the faster you can capture stuff.

Archived Post 02-08-2010 01:42 PM

Agree.

I love the cap/hold gameplay, but the capture times are a bit on the excessive side.

Archived Post 02-08-2010 04:25 PM

These are capture and hold instances. If this were a ground map with choke points you could capture and then move on to the next choke point, but these are space maps with no real barriers. Sticking around makes them easier to hold. If one enemy could flip a node there wouldn't be any "hold" to the node.

I do agree the visuals need to be clearer. Most Klings max impulse off the second the color changes. If the symbol swapped then began to fill up with the proper color, it would be clearer when the point was fully captured and generating points.

I like the tactics involved but wish the Klingon side knew how the points worked. Maybe if both sides didn't get credit for a win and the rewards for winning were a little larger, people would find and follow strategies for winning rather than counting coup on the opposing faction.

Archived Post 02-08-2010 05:01 PM

You're probably right, although if it was shorter, why would that discourage a big group in the center being in control of everything. They could just send off ships and recapture quickly and then return to the center. I think maybe increasing the distances might be a better solution, although I'm not sure because I haven't thought about it too much. I think the map plays decently as is, but I'm in favor of anything that encourages strategic thinking.

I absolutely agree with the following, however:

Quote:

It is also really hard to see if you have locked a point or temporarily switched it to your team. This is pretty frustrating because if you fly away after 59 seconds of waiting the point goes back to neutral and you just wasted all of that time. Please add some sort of obvious timer so we know when a point is locked or just temporarily yours.

Archived Post 02-09-2010 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rastaban
These are capture and hold instances. If this were a ground map with choke points you could capture and then move on to the next choke point, but these are space maps with no real barriers. Sticking around makes them easier to hold. If one enemy could flip a node there wouldn't be any "hold" to the node.

People right now are staying at their points after capping them and trying to keep them. The problem is that the enemies can just form up into a big group of 10 and capture 3 points and keep them without having to divide their forces. If you divide your forces right now there is a good chance you will lose, which is pretty lame. I would like to see proper area control tactics that involved splitting your team and coordination in order to keep all of the points, instead of a big blob.


Quote:

Originally Posted by hamletthunktoomuch
You're probably right, although if it was shorter, why would that discourage a big group in the center being in control of everything. They could just send off ships and recapture quickly and then return to the center. I think maybe increasing the distances might be a better solution, although I'm not sure because I haven't thought about it too much. I think the map plays decently as is, but I'm in favor of anything that encourages strategic thinking.

The problem isn't them sending ships to points and recapturing them. It's flying as a big group of 10 one at a time to each point and recapturing them. If the time was shorter this strategy would be useless. They would be forced to split up into at least 3 groups in order to hold their points.

Archived Post 02-09-2010 07:19 AM

Meh tbh with the current sys of reweard youmight as well let one side cap the lot to speed up the timer then just have a free for all fight. I have in t2 been on the winning side (klingon) topped 140k dam and ended up with 25 badges, 100 skill points. I have lost with 30k damage and still got 25 badges and 100 skill points. There is no point in trying to stretch itout to win with this system. At worst i get 23 badges and 90 skill points. I would rather get that every 5 mins that fight for an hour for 25/100.

T1/T2 are unbalanced for one side, might as well get blow through them. When you factor in the que system that will pit one side of 2 vs a side of 6+ for a period of time, and often you never get even numbers the pvp is just another means to lvl so might as well make it as efficient for yourself as possible.

Archived Post 02-09-2010 08:28 AM

Capture and hold is really a simplistic measure for something more complex than bare attrition. That it is being applied for this scale and scope is the problem. Capture and hold makes more sense in a larger map where it applies to overall victory (the operational level). An entire battle would be spent in capturing a point (or to put it more realistically, a base), then a new operation would have to be formed for the next objective. Capture and hold (as defined in STO PvP) as a tactical objective makes little sense unless its on the ground (or in a base) and with troops.

Archived Post 02-09-2010 10:40 AM

My biggest gripe isnt the capture time....but how cramped the arenas are. Everything is to close...spread them things out. We look like frickin' goldfish darting about trying to get sinking fish flakes.

Remoe the high impulse sounds with bubbly "bluuuluplup" sounds and the effect is complete.

I'd love for us to need to hold secondary objectives before we could capture a pimary objective nestled somewhere inside thier primeter. That way we are fighting for an area before being able to actual own it.

Im tired of the ADHD cat play as we zip back in forth like we are on cat-nip. If I see someone jumps up and slides down a door seal, Im done!


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