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-   -   T4 4 or 5 Science vessels - and now? T5: 2 or 3 Vo'Quvs - and now? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=111611)

Archived Post 02-09-2010 03:55 PM

T4 4 or 5 Science vessels - and now? T5: 2 or 3 Vo'Quvs - and now?
 
As I am one of the leader of the biggest and oldest German Multifaction Fleet I see both sides of the medal. So the questions above are really big questions in my op.


thoughts on balance:

I know many of you find T3 and T4 the probably best balanced parts of the game. In my op it' s not. Why? Here some examples of imbalance in my op. Rembember: it is just my op and my experience I am talking about. Maybe you have got others and I would be very interesting in hearing it.:)

T1: nearly no chance for Feds to win
T2: Three escorts or two escorts on fed side is a 90% win for klings.
3 Science and two cruisers very hard for Klingons, 80% win for Feds.
T3: same
T4: 3,4, or 5 Science vessels 90 to 95% win for Feds.
T5: 2 Vo'Quvs 80 to 90% win for Klingons

As you can see it depends on the shiptype combination but that is not balance as I understand it.

Because in my op every combination of ships should have a real and fair chance to win against any other combination.
But as my experience shows it is not because some type of groups are very stronger than others for both sides and that' s not the way PvP should work, I think. Also there are some hardly overpowerd skills like VMIII or weapons going through shields

So at the end of the road there is really some balance needed on both sides as I see it

I would be very interested to read your views

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Renak (Post 2018558)
As I am one of the leader of the biggest and oldest German Multifaction Fleet I see both sides of the medal. So the questions above are really big questions in my op.


thoughts on balance:

I know many of you find T3 and T4 the probably best balanced parts of the game. In my op it' s not. Why? Here some examples of imbalance in my op. Rembember: it is just my op and my experience I am talking about. Maybe you have got others and I would be very interesting in hearing it.:)

T1: nearly no chance for Feds to win
T2: Three escorts or two escorts on fed side is a 90% win for klings.
3 Science and two cruisers very hard for Klingons, 80% win for Feds.
T3: same
T4: 3,4, or 5 Science vessels 90 to 95% win for Feds.
T5: 2 Vo'Quvs 80 to 90% win for Klingons

As you can see it depends on the shiptype combination but that is not balance as I understand it.

Because in my op every combination of ships should have a real and fair chance to win against any other combination.
But as my experience shows it is not because some type of groups are very stronger than others for both sides and that' s not the way PvP should work, I think. Also there are some hardly overpowerd skills like VMIII or weapons going through shields

So at the end of the road there is really some balance needed on both sides as I see it

I would be very interested to read your views

From what you are saying, it's crucial for feds to bring groups that have heavy support.

I don't think t5 is a fair place to call it yet... the carriers are bugged to heck.

T1 is unfair for many reasons -
All t1 kdf pilots have already played t1 and worse. some of them are twinks
The miranda has poor weaposn for 1 vs 1, and is outgunned and outmanuevered
bop has universal stations, allowing it to load up on bursty damage
plus cloak, which means that the fight will start when the kdf pilot chooses to start it

I really REALLY think that the tt1 kdf ship should be some piece of crap with weak cloak, 2 forward guns and no rear, and one less universal station. EVEN with all that, the feds would probably be on an even playing field.

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meat_Machine
From what you are saying, it's crucial for feds to bring groups that have heavy support.

I don't think t5 is a fair place to call it yet... the carriers are bugged to heck.

T1 is unfair for many reasons -
All t1 kdf pilots have already played t1 and worse. some of them are twinks
The miranda has poor weaposn for 1 vs 1, and is outgunned and outmanuevered
bop has universal stations, allowing it to load up on bursty damage
plus cloak, which means that the fight will start when the kdf pilot chooses to start it

I really REALLY think that the tt1 kdf ship should be some piece of crap with weak cloak, 2 forward guns and no rear, and one less universal station. EVEN with all that, the feds would probably be on an even playing field.

Carriers can be beaten. Feds just dont bring the right skill combinations to do it though. They rely so much on VM and similar shutdown skills its laughable

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larhten (Post 2018677)
Carriers can be beaten. Feds just dont bring the right skill combinations to do it though. They rely so much on VM and similar shutdown skills its laughable

Generalizations are funny!

I just played this game right, and I got chain VM'ed lol all klingons are VM spammers obviously.

Clue... get one.

On topic - Carriers are fine. I just hope they fix the bloody bay bug... my old computer can hardly handle the evil swarms heh :(

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sharpsy
Generalizations are funny!

I just played this game right, and I got chain VM'ed lol all klingons are VM spammers obviously.

Clue... get one.

On topic - Carriers are fine. I just hope they fix the bloody bay bug... my old computer can hardly handle the evil swarms heh :(

The point of my previous post was that if they stopped relying on single target shutdowns , they may make some headway and end up crying less.....

Here , have a clue on me....'Scatter Shot'

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larhten (Post 2018967)
The point of my previous post was that if they stopped relying on single target shutdowns , they may make some headway and end up crying less.....

Here , have a clue on me....'Scatter Shot'

And you are right, however, you should understand that both sides have pretty much the same measure of noobs and QQ's. (not to mention the "single target shutdowns" users) hehe

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:50 PM

It' s not a question of noobs and profis in my op. And I don' t want generalization after all. Unique playable factions are great and this should not be changed. So it is fully understandable that science vessels have more shields and we Klingons have cloak;) - and yes: you can one Vo'Quv beat down. But how many time does it cost and what if there are three Vo'Quvs? That was my outgoing question. It is not about ONE science or ONE Vo'Quv, it' s about GROUPS of them and that that groups do win about 90% of the matches atm. This should not be the way balance should work in my op as I said above: every ship combination should have chance against any other but that is not the way it works atm. Don' t you agree?

Archived Post 02-09-2010 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Renak (Post 2019228)
It' s not a question of noobs and profis in my op. And I don' t want generalization after all. Unique playable factions are great and this should not be changed. So it is fully understandable that science vessels have more shields and we Klingons have cloak;) - and yes: you can one Vo'Quv beat down. But how many time does it cost and what if there are three Vo'Quvs? That was my outgoing question. It is not about ONE science or ONE Vo'Quv, it' s about GROUPS of them and that that groups do win about 90% of the matches atm. This should not be the way balance should work in my op as I said above: every ship combination should have chance against any other but that is not the way it works atm. Don' t you agree?

You do know most of the pure carrier groups are fleets on voice comms right?

Archived Post 02-10-2010 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larhten (Post 2019322)
You do know most of the pure carrier groups are fleets on voice comms right?

of course I know we are, too. But this changes not the situation at it' s self.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt.Renak (Post 2018558)

T1: nearly no chance for Feds to win
T2: Three escorts or two escorts on fed side is a 90% win for klings.
3 Science and two cruisers very hard for Klingons, 80% win for Feds.
T3: same
T4: 3,4, or 5 Science vessels 90 to 95% win for Feds.
T5: 2 Vo'Quvs 80 to 90% win for Klingons

My perspective as Klingon, ive kept some statistics ( Pug is solo join que, and Premade is the premade i play with )

T1: Pug: majority Kdf win , Premade vs Premade: 40% fed win, 60% kdf win.
T2: Pug: majority Fed win , Premade vs Premade: 10% fed win, 90% kdf win.
T3: Pug: balanced , Premade vs Premade: ~8% fed win, 92% kdf win.
T4: Pug: majority Fed win , Premade vs Premade: ~3% fed win, 97% kdf win.
T5: no info


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