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-   -   PvP "Exploits" and Issues that need attention ASAP (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=112539)

Archived Post 02-10-2010 11:21 AM

PvP "Exploits" and Issues that need attention ASAP
 
First of all, "exploits" is in quotes, because, in all likelihood, they're "working as intended." Also listed are "Issues" that seem to have a loud voice behind them.

Be that as it may, some skills and situations are being horribly abused, so I wanted a master list of things I've experienced/seen/read that are being used excessively to everyone's detriment. So, let the QQ begin...

SPACE ABILITIES AND ISSUES

Boff power stacking is becoming horribly excessive. Worse known examples include..
  • Rapid Fire: Due to it's duration, you can rotate two rapid fires to keep this buff going with a up time of nearly 70%. It's a awesomely great ability, but there's no downside to it, save missing a single tactical slot. No ships can withstand power of that magnitude :)
  • Reverse Shield Polarity: Ahh, next to rapid fire, one of the worst offenders. Almost as bad as chaining Rapid Fire, but it's long cooldown helps to limit it. However, in combination with photonic officer, it becomes nearly as bad.

Other Abused Powers
  • Combo: Viral Matrix/Subnuc beam: As if VM wasn't bad enough, using Subnuc before a VM guarantees that the target cannot preload Science Team on themselves, and if used after, just prolongs the pain. No one likes long CC periods. Perhaps the change to Science Team will help the situation.
  • Ramming Speed: So fun, so cool, so horribly abused. I've seen Fed Escorts one shot cruisers in PvP and major bosses in PvE. Cloaked ships can stealth run Feds and insta pop them. The combination of full impulse/evasive/ramming can one shot anything if it connects. Solution: Limit kinetic damage to a factor of Inertia. Smaller ships do less damage, larger, slower ships do more. And Cryptic, fix the full impulse/evasive maneuvers bug already!
  • Feedback Pulse: This can be a ridiculously overpowered ability. And I don't use the word overpowered lightly. With high deflector skills, maxed AUX, and someone with decent dps hitting you, this can strike the attacker back for 3,000+ damage per pulse. This is not an exaggeration. So let's do the math. Say a cruiser is hitting you with 5 beams, and you pop this just as he hits spacebar, so he can't stop one salvo. 5 beams x 4 auto pulses per beam=20 pulses. Multiply that by the damage done, and, let's say, for more typical purposes, the damage per pulse is 1.5k. 20 x 1500= 30,000. Ouch. For your opponents sake let's hope he didn't hit spacebar again.

Ships and Issues
  • The poor Raptor: This class really needs some love. Slightly more durable than a BoP, yet can't battlecloak or do anything unique or special. Only people that loved the look or got stuck speccing into em in T2 keep em around. Give this class an extra science slot or something.
  • Fed Cruiser turn rates: Also includes the Klingon Carrier. Yes, beating a dead horse here. To know the REAL reason why such an abysmal turn rate is, in fact, a bad thing, please see this forum thread (props to Red.Line for the math and pointing this out). Summary: Due to Cryptic's diminishing returns system (a decent system mind you, at keeping stat inflation and exploitation down), if you have a low base value for any given stat, like turn, there is no possible way to boost it high enough to actually show/matter, i.e. if you stack 4 30% turn consoles, full points in all turn abilities in the skillsheet, AND use full power to Aux, you will get a total of about... 8.5 to turn. That's even less than the Negh'Var BASE turn rate. Klingons, if you ever get the chance to fly a carrier, do it. You'll understand the pain.
  • Science Vessel Detection: This poses nearly no threat to any cloaker, save a few sci vessels who max detection in absence of most other stats. And even they can't detect much farther than 6k with sensor sweep. And even THAT depends on if the target keeps a low AUX setting, like most do. I can count on one hand the number of times my BoP was caught in cloak, and that was usually after battle cloaking, and within 3-4k of the sci vessel who popped sensor sweep. The only solution I can think of besides just flat buffing sci detection is to make some new power or equipment that temporarily extends detection range, like shooting detection probes, or dropping buoys. Make em destroyable. Make em time limited. It'll at least make things more interesting and less brain dead.

I'm sure there are more "exploits" and issues, but for now, this is enough QQ, and imo, some warranted. Whether you agree or disagree, show some love, but do try to at least back your opinions. No one likes a troll.

I was gonna add a "ground" section, but after I realized how many issues there are, I got really tired.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 11:30 AM

you need to add the escort in with the raptor changes as they are the exact same ship, except the Raptor is stronger with stealth.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 11:33 AM

There could be a simple change, that same BO powers have 1min system cooldown. That would remove most of the awful builds like 3xRPS etc.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 11:41 AM

I agree on most of the points.

Rapid Fire is fine as it currently is. Without it, there would be no reason to use Cannons at all given the advantage in average engagment time for Beams.

Not sure about Ramming Speed, I am 36 now and have not seen it getting abused even once.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 11:43 AM

The VM should be "fixed" when the science team change comes, although perhaps a reduction for pvp could be considered.

feedback pulse has a clear animation, on the ship and even clearer when its shooting back. Sure you get hit for 2 volleys if your not really quick, but if you are still shooting that ship after the blue bolts hit you feedback would be the least of your worries ;)

the raptor has the escort syndrom.

and yes i agree the anti stealth of the science vessel is a bit of joke, but you'll have to be carefull with it also, as if you increase it too much the klinks will have lost cloak.
so perhaps a science console to increase it % could be a option.
Or something like the scan area we have for collectin data sample for cloak, it just points in the direction of the nearest vessel, without saying were it is and how far, ofcourse with a cooldown timer.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 12:01 PM

i dont agree on skills/talents. been playing A LOT pvp 5vs5 space DM and i dont agree, sorry.

these things i only see as a problem.

1. Ramming speed, should make the target immune so there is no 5 player kamikaze vs 1 player kills. (would be stupid tactic and ruins a nice group vs group battle) like ramming speeds purpose is to finish off a player who is us in low hull but max shields. (with a cost ofc, you dmg your own ship a lot to get that 5% off the enemy).

2. Skills should be only usable once per skill ( ie. can only use one extend shield and when the CD is back you can use it again, same with rapid fire,viral matrix etc etc skills ).

also i think that 100% success talents and 100% resistance buffs are wrong, there should always be a chance that some skill works even if the target has 100% resistance for it, means only that the chance is extreamly low, like cap everything to 95%.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acehilator (Post 2030189)
I agree on most of the points.

Rapid Fire is fine as it currently is. Without it, there would be no reason to use Cannons at all given the advantage in average engagment time for Beams.

Not sure about Ramming Speed, I am 36 now and have not seen it getting abused even once.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on either of these accounts.

Rapid Fire IS fine as is. I'm not arguing for touching it. But stacking them back to back to back to back... well, you get the picture. Pretty soon your standard dps IS the Rapid Fire buff. That can't continue. It's a temporary BO power, not some semi permanent ability. 30 seconds out of every 50 you can have it active. And to correct myself, that's a 60% uptime. A little extreme I believe.

As for ramming speed, I should amend it's not as prevalent in PvP, cause the targets are human, and move all the time. Makes it harder to aim. But I'm pretty sure an escort isn't suppose to one shot a cruiser and survive. This is with FULL SHIELDS on both ships, which theoretically should blunt the blow quite a bit. If the rammer doesn't initiate Brace for Impact, he'll die too. Sometimes he does anyway, and sometimes the target. I should put in that I've done this several times successfully.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Aelyth
The VM should be "fixed" when the science team change comes, although perhaps a reduction for pvp could be considered.

feedback pulse has a clear animation, on the ship and even clearer when its shooting back. Sure you get hit for 2 volleys if your not really quick, but if you are still shooting that ship after the blue bolts hit you feedback would be the least of your worries ;)

the raptor has the escort syndrom.

and yes i agree the anti stealth of the science vessel is a bit of joke, but you'll have to be carefull with it also, as if you increase it too much the klinks will have lost cloak.
so perhaps a science console to increase it % could be a option.
Or something like the scan area we have for collectin data sample for cloak, it just points in the direction of the nearest vessel, without saying were it is and how far, ofcourse with a cooldown timer.

The example I gave was if the victim of Feedback Pulse immediately shut off his attack, he'd still get hit for the damage. Beams, and in particular, arrays, afaik pulse 4 times every cycle. You cannot turn this off once it's initiated. So, in my example, the attacker/victim would still take 30k of damage. Worst case scenario, I'll admit, but even if the defender initiates FBP halfway thru the beam attack, the victim still takes 15k of damage. Way to much so such a small timeframe.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otheym81 (Post 2032104)
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear on either of these accounts.

Rapid Fire IS fine as is. I'm not arguing for touching it. But stacking them back to back to back to back... well, you get the picture. Pretty soon your standard dps IS the Rapid Fire buff. That can't continue. It's a temporary BO power, not some semi permanent ability. 30 seconds out of every 50 you can have it active. And to correct myself, that's a 60% uptime. A little extreme I believe.

As for ramming speed, I should amend it's not as prevalent in PvP, cause the targets are human, and move all the time. Makes it harder to aim. But I'm pretty sure an escort isn't suppose to one shot a cruiser and survive. This is with FULL SHIELDS on both ships, which theoretically should blunt the blow quite a bit. If the rammer doesn't initiate Brace for Impact, he'll die too. Sometimes he does anyway, and sometimes the target. I should put in that I've done this several times successfully.

I understood you, and with "Rapid Fire is fine" I mean the current chaining is fine, like I said, without it, Cannons would be underperforming.

Concerning ramming I see your point, but yeah I cannot really comment on that. I am looking at it from a pure PvP perspective.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acehilator (Post 2032979)
I understood you, and with "Rapid Fire is fine" I mean the current chaining is fine, like I said, without it, Cannons would be underperforming.

Thats not acceptable, that means the skill is broken but since you can use slot it twice it is 2x as good which as only about as good as everything else. Which its not. 1 use of CRF should be comparable to 1 use of anything else with the same cooldown.

Archived Post 02-10-2010 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalnar
There could be a simple change, that same BO powers have 1min system cooldown. That would remove most of the awful builds like 3xRPS etc.

It shares a GCD with extend shields as well... that might be a little awkward.

But eh, people hate extend shields too, and the fact you can use two extends at once is silly. (30s duration ,15s global cooldown)

30s-1m would probably be totally reasonable.


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