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-   -   Klingon Content: PvE vs PvP (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=133621)

Archived Post 03-05-2010 11:11 AM

Klingon Content: PvE vs PvP
 
PvE:
1 month to develop a map that we play through in a day. The enemies never change, so if you've done it once, you've seen everything it will ever have to offer you.

PvP:
1 month to develop a map that we can play hundreds of times with different results because the enemies are always different.


I don't understand the business sense in continuing to develop Klingon PvE. It will always take them ages to design, implement and test a mission that most of us will probably do somewhere between 0-5 times before we're bored with it. PvP content has so much more replayability.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 11:29 AM

The problem being is that you spread the populace over more maps and there is just not any Klink players anymore.

Most of our fleet is gone. Unsubbed and the lifers are playing other games already.

Most Feds I have talked to are not playing a Klink because of the exp nerfs and no content other than 3 nebulas to grind endlessly.

They honestly need more pve content and new interesting pvp maps.

The raidisode is not what was needed. I carrot for some.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamz
PvE:
1 month to develop a map that we play through in a day. The enemies never change, so if you've done it once, you've seen everything it will ever have to offer you.

PvP:
1 month to develop a map that we can play hundreds of times with different results because the enemies are always different.


I don't understand the business sense in continuing to develop Klingon PvE. It will always take them ages to design, implement and test a mission that most of us will probably do somewhere between 0-5 times before we're bored with it. PvP content has so much more replayability.

Quoted for truth. It's lthe same concept with fighting and first person shooter games. I know many people that own Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 and have never completed the campaign mode even once; they strictly play online only.

Or the Super Smash Bros franchise. I know several people that have not even touched the single story mode once, though it is obvious that the programmers are trying to put much more effort into developing the story mode through each new installment.

Instead of changing the KDF faction to resemble more of a Federation variant by developing PvE content, it would be interesting if the PVP aspects of the KDF faction were developed instead.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 12:05 PM

Not everyone wants to level by PvPing. Some of the people who don't will never play Klingon characters, even if they're intrigued by the idea of PvP and playing a Klingon vessel, because they aren't willing to suffer through the leveling process. Adding PvE missions for Klingons to streamline the leveling process would radically increase the number of players on the faction, which would in turn improve the exposure of PvP and create a more balanced and interesting game.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 12:17 PM

Call of Duty is a good example. Even if you really love the PvE (single player campaign), you play through it, what, once? Twice? After you've had the game for a month one of two things happens:

a) You only like PvE content and you've done it all so you put the game on a shelf and never play it again.
b) You go online and play the PvP maps over and over again possibly for months.


I see Klingon content going the same way.

Cryptic can either supply us with a steady stream of PvE content which will we play through once or twice before we're bored with it or they can keep bringing us PvP content which we can play hundreds of times.

If they brought us some good new PvP maps they could shut down some of the existing ones to keep populations focused. I don't think we necessary need 3 deathmatch ground maps and 3 deathmatch space maps where the only difference is terrain. (Although they might be able to do something interesting if they strung the maps together for a bigger game...hmmm...kinda like how Team Fortress 2 will take one big map and divide it into several pieces to create like a mini-campaign, like the Hydro map.)


PvP, just like PvE, needs content to survive. Unlike PvE, though, PvP content has a great deal of replay value.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamz
1 month to develop a map that we play through in a day.

*buzz*

Wrong. Once they have enough interiors designed, they can slap them together to make new maps very quickly. And if your talking about planetary surfaces, their genesis system lets them instantly create random looks(think hitting random on the character creator). The longest part of making a PvE mission would be writing the dialogue and scripting the chain of events in the mission.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 01:31 PM

The main problem that I see with this is that they tried to push a "pvp faction" into a game that has a lot of focus overall on pve. The pvp faction would work much better in a pvp focused game, but I don't see Cryptic forcing the feds to pvp anytime soon. Personally I think they only did this in-order to make the launch date. If they had delayed the game, I honestly think we would have a much different Klingon faction then what we currently have.

In my opinion the Klingons need pve more than anything right now. I find pvp to be the definition of boring, but that is just my preference as I tend to enjoy a good story more then the thrill of battle.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slamz
PvE:
1 month to develop a map that we play through in a day. The enemies never change, so if you've done it once, you've seen everything it will ever have to offer you.

PvP:
1 month to develop a map that we can play hundreds of times with different results because the enemies are always different.


I don't understand the business sense in continuing to develop Klingon PvE. It will always take them ages to design, implement and test a mission that most of us will probably do somewhere between 0-5 times before we're bored with it. PvP content has so much more replayability.

All depends if you want to PVP, Personally, I am content to play PVE all the way through and do not subscribe to games that are PVP based (****) only other games I have played that were mainly Pve are SWG then went to WoW on a PVE server, hence I enjoy Star Trek as I can PVE through the ranks, well at least on Federation side till they implement PVE for Klingons fully. :D

P.S I understand that the quoted view are your thoughts. :)

Archived Post 03-05-2010 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike111
The problem being is that you spread the populace over more maps and there is just not any Klink players anymore.

Most of our fleet is gone. Unsubbed and the lifers are playing other games already.

Most Feds I have talked to are not playing a Klink because of the exp nerfs and no content other than 3 nebulas to grind endlessly.

They honestly need more pve content and new interesting pvp maps.

The raidisode is not what was needed. I carrot for some.

Agreed 100%, PvE is vital and it's something that needs to be added asap. Also the PvP is boring like hell after a few matches because it's always the same map.

The raidisode is a nice touch but there's not a lot of Klingon players doing it atm I've noticed. Hopefully the 45 day patch will hold on to it's promise of the future for this game is dark indeed.

The added content we've seen so far is pretty good for Fed but give Klings some love also Cryptic, this was supposed to be a fully souped out faction afterall.

Archived Post 03-05-2010 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus (Post 2310473)
The longest part of making a PvE mission would be writing the dialogue and scripting the chain of events in the mission.

i highly doubt it took them more than a month to write the dialogue and whatnot for the new PvE map/STF.

the story in the new PvE map would be enjoyable, if we had 45 levels of story leading up to it. i'm a little confused by it, actually, we've been PvP'ing Feds for 45 levels, and now-we're saving their Starbases? clearly there must be an Undine with Fed sympathies at the top of the Kling chain of command... but at aleast we're still killing Feds, assimilated or not :)

i think the point Slamz is making here is this-

we waited a month, for basically a re-skinned Khaless (we get one of those every new rank, tho) that has a PvE mission in it. and i'm glad they didn't go w/the name 'raid-isode' b/c it just....doesnt FEEL like a raid. minus the STF, it's the same PvE content we've always had-go here, destroy X enemy vessels. grind. we've been there, done that, and i think we can put that down. not much in replay value there.

the STF feels like a WoW 'dungeon' (doesnt come close to a WoW 'raid' tho), and a short one at that, what-2 bosses? even for an entry-level 'instance' (or 'dungeon'), it's par for the course. nothing innovative, if you'd have played the 5-man's from CO, you'd realize they did the same w/them (like lowering the shields in Manny's room) as far as group mechanics and co-ordination. the actual bosses, dont really have any special abilities or require strategy-just BIG PEWPEW. not much replay value here either.

to be honest, it actually reminds me of the Ice Mining Fleet Action (Yov'Bot? i think?) only indoors. survive the swarms of NPC's, hit your 'F'key, only now they've added the Captain & Manny.

in MMO's, end game content boils down to-PvP, or Raid progression. that's the real time-sink between Xpacs. crafting, dailies, etc., only help support one or the other (pvp or raiding) i myself, started as a Raider, then in downtime between raids, found PvP-a whole new game inside the game. and fell in love.

i was really hoping to enjoy both in STO, but i think PvP is actually still more enjoyable. if this STF (Infected) is Cryptic's idea of a 'raid', i think i'll pass. there are other games that do 'raids' better. STO needs PvE content w/replay value, and Infected just doesnt have it.

but, time will tell. i see 'Infected' as an entry-level end-cap instance, doubtless they will make more STF's like it (hopfully they will not be similar to the way Infected played out) but hopefully the real 'raids' are yet to come.


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