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-   -   Take out exploit effect, make ground combat 100% less tedious. (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=138429)

Archived Post 03-15-2010 12:20 AM

Take out exploit effect, make ground combat 100% less tedious.
 
I think the general consensus around here, and definitely within my fleet, is that ground combat is UNBEARABLY mind numbing, boring, tedious, and not fun. Oh, and ridiculously easy. I know for me it's nothing but incessantly mashing on buttons waiting fro the enemy to die, while I myself nor my bridge crew is presented with even the slightest bit of challenge or danger. I know they are changing something with the exploit/expose mechanics in the next update, but I have my own suggestion.

Get rid of exploit and just make it so that EVERY attack deals heavy damage to exposed enemies. All weapons with expose attacks will stay the same, and all weapons with exploit attacks would be changed to expose attacks. That way every secondary attack will have a chance to expose. Attacks on exposed enemies would deal not as much damage as an exploit would do now, but still, a nice big boost.

1. Removes the brain-dead binary nature of ground combat. It's not "strategy" and don't try to tell me it is.
2. Makes ground combat go by a lot faster.
3. Eliminates the annoyance of having to hopelessly watch your exposed enemy recover before your exploit attack recharges.
4. Limits the dependence on away team A.I. to intelligently set up and use exploit/expose combos.
5. It makes sense. An exposed enemy would take extra damage from pretty much any attack one would think.
6. We all know this game is about ship combat. Might as well make the ground combat go by quicker.
7. Reduce the spawn sizes. Srsly, I'm taking out like 150 dudes every time I step foot on a planet. That doesn't feel right in the ST universe, and it severely adds to the tedium the combat already presents. You don't earn JACK for skill points on ground missions anyway, so who cares if you cut the number of mobs in half?

I've previously mentioned that a vast reduction in enemy and player HP would make the ground combat a lot more fun as well. I still stand by that suggestion today. I literally lose ALL interest in the game as soon as I have my bridge officer tell me we need to beam down to the planet. If the ground combat was bad but still exciting in some way, I wouldn't mind. However, not only is it bad, but it's a total buzz kill. NEEDS SERIOUS OVERHAULIN'

Archived Post 03-15-2010 01:56 PM

EDIT: Having read the rest of your post, much of what I said here is unnecessary.

For the record, I hate ground combat and will never, EVER engage in ground PvP. I can't imagine a less enjoyable activity.

Archived Post 03-15-2010 02:02 PM

I kinda like Exploits.

Particularly when I discovered I could vaporize a guy with my bare hands (Lunge III).

Archived Post 03-16-2010 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urobolus (Post 2368323)
I think the general consensus around here, and definitely within my fleet, is that ground combat is UNBEARABLY mind numbing, boring, tedious, and not fun. Oh, and ridiculously easy. I know for me it's nothing but incessantly mashing on buttons waiting fro the enemy to die, while I myself nor my bridge crew is presented with even the slightest bit of challenge or danger. I know they are changing something with the exploit/expose mechanics in the next update, but I have my own suggestion.

Get rid of exploit and just make it so that EVERY attack deals heavy damage to exposed enemies. All weapons with expose attacks will stay the same, and all weapons with exploit attacks would be changed to expose attacks. That way every secondary attack will have a chance to expose. Attacks on exposed enemies would deal not as much damage as an exploit would do now, but still, a nice big boost.

The cooldowns on exploit abilities are the only thing keeping them remotely balanced, so making every attack on an exposed target do extra damage sounds like a really bad idea. If you happen to get an expose on two targets at once, you either have to choose which one to hit, or use an AOE attack with a longer cooldown.

The only thing which makes the expose mechanic bearable in PvP is that if you put the exploit attack on cooldown early or do something to interrupt an exploit against a team-mate then you are safe for the 4 or 5 seconds it takes for the expose to wear off. Good players can survive an expose in PvP because exploits are a little more difficult than just spamming your primary attack for extra damage.
Quote:

1. Removes the brain-dead binary nature of ground combat. It's not "strategy" and don't try to tell me it is.
I don't know, "having to plot out your attacks in advance while guessing at what attacks or counters your enemy might use" sounds like strategy to me.
Quote:

2. Makes ground combat go by a lot faster.
I agree that PvE combat feels slow, but it's PvE. the Digital dragons will eventually die and you'll get your loot no matter what you do.

Ground PvP is too fast if anything. PvP fights are always a lot more fun when they go on for a minute or two.
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3. Eliminates the annoyance of having to hopelessly watch your exposed enemy recover before your exploit attack recharges.
What do you expect when you refuse to use a strategy?

Save up your exploit attack for when you really need it, and if you want a faster cooldown then go for a single-target weapon instead of an AOE one, since single-target usually has a faster cooldown.
Quote:

4. Limits the dependence on away team A.I. to intelligently set up and use exploit/expose combos.
Bring along other players if it's that big a deal.

Away teams are in PvE, and you can clear PvE content by just spamming your primary attack. Expose/exploit makes things faster, but it doesn't really matter because you are highly unlikely to "lose" in PvE.
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5. It makes sense. An exposed enemy would take extra damage from pretty much any attack one would think.
Making exploits difficult is the way that Cryptic lets you vaporize players while still keeping the game somewhat balanced. In PvP when players complain about expose/exploit, it's not because people don't take enough damage, but because it's too easy to spam high-damage with certain abilities.
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6. We all know this game is about ship combat. Might as well make the ground combat go by quicker.
That's just silly, what about Star Trek makes you think that the only combat is in ships?
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7. Reduce the spawn sizes. Srsly, I'm taking out like 150 dudes every time I step foot on a planet. That doesn't feel right in the ST universe, and it severely adds to the tedium the combat already presents. You don't earn JACK for skill points on ground missions anyway, so who cares if you cut the number of mobs in half?
This I'd agree with, it's the one suggestion to speed up PvE without screwing with PvP.
Quote:

I've previously mentioned that a vast reduction in enemy and player HP would make the ground combat a lot more fun as well. I still stand by that suggestion today. I literally lose ALL interest in the game as soon as I have my bridge officer tell me we need to beam down to the planet. If the ground combat was bad but still exciting in some way, I wouldn't mind. However, not only is it bad, but it's a total buzz kill. NEEDS SERIOUS OVERHAULIN'
A flat reduction in HP would be a bad idea, because players already die really fast when their shields drop in PvP.

If you wanted more exciting ground PvE I'd:
1. Increase NPC DPS.
2. Give "minion" NPCs much less health, so they die in 2 shots at most.
3. Include one or two tougher mobs in each pull that fight a lot more like players. Meaning that when the Swordmaster runs up to you, they ought to be spamming attacks on every global cooldown to keep you stunlocked and exposed until you are able to break the chain with a hold of your own or your away team peels him off of you. With the mobs having a 3 second timer between attacks, of course ground PvE is dull.

Archived Post 04-03-2010 05:52 PM

"I think the general consensus around here, and definitely within my fleet, is that ground combat is UNBEARABLY mind numbing, boring, tedious, and not fun. Oh, and ridiculously easy. I know for me it's nothing but incessantly mashing on buttons waiting for the enemy to die, "

- I agree though I spend my time mashing buttons trying to NOT die myself while making the NPC's die, PvP side I don't get chance to mash buttons as i'm usually killed by an expose / exploit combo within two seconds of entering a room dealt by someone or a group that I knew was in the room but couldn't target fast enough due to the clunky camera and ground motion controls.

Get rid of exploit and just make it so that EVERY attack deals heavy damage to exposed enemies. All weapons with expose attacks will stay the same, and all weapons with exploit attacks would be changed to expose attacks. That way every secondary attack will have a chance to expose. Attacks on exposed enemies would deal not as much damage as an exploit would do now, but still, a nice big boost.

- Good idea. It would definately make things more interesting for people who aren't that great on the ground, though I can see alot of the elite dirtside PvP junkies complaining because they can no longer solo kill someone in about 2-3 seconds.

1. Removes the brain-dead binary nature of ground combat. It's not "strategy" and don't try to tell me it is. - the red part I kind agree with, there isn't much stratagy used on the ground.

2. Makes ground combat go by a lot faster. - not so sure about this one unless you reduce their health and shileding

3. Eliminates the annoyance of having to hopelessly watch your exposed enemy recover before your exploit attack recharges. - personally I don't find that annoying, I do find it annoying to be killed repeatedly without much chance to fight back though

4. Limits the dependence on away team A.I. to intelligently set up and use exploit/expose combos. - you mean they actually try and do it? I've never seen that happen, I just give them all expose weapons and carry the exploit guns myself for PvE.

5. It makes sense. An exposed enemy would take extra damage from pretty much any attack one would think. - I agree with this one, if you're exposed you're far more likely to get hit IRL.

6. We all know this game is about ship combat. Might as well make the ground combat go by quicker. - Not necessarily but i would like ground combat to be a more engaging.

7. Reduce the spawn sizes. Srsly, I'm taking out like 150 dudes every time I step foot on a planet. That doesn't feel right in the ST universe, and it severely adds to the tedium the combat already presents. You don't earn JACK for skill points on ground missions anyway, so who cares if you cut the number of mobs in half? - it's crazy that your 5 person team should be expected to take on more than twice their number and survive with NO ill effects

I've previously mentioned that a vast reduction in enemy and player HP would make the ground combat a lot more fun as well. I still stand by that suggestion today. I literally lose ALL interest in the game as soon as I have my bridge officer tell me we need to beam down to the planet. If the ground combat was bad but still exciting in some way, I wouldn't mind. However, not only is it bad, but it's a total buzz kill. NEEDS SERIOUS OVERHAULIN' " - I agree with the red bit but not with the green bit. In PvP people can be killed rediculously fast though a SLIGHT reduction in player HP wouldn't be too bad and might soften the blow for the PvP'ers of having no way to kill you almost instantly.

Archived Post 04-04-2010 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildfyre010 (Post 2371974)
I can't imagine a less enjoyable activity.

Ground PVP tends to be a lot more fun than space PVP. Especially at the higher levels. Though that has a lot to do with the recent patch making space PVP a DHC-dominated gib-fest, but nerfs to holds in ground PVP much more survivable.

Archived Post 04-04-2010 06:42 AM

I like the idea of every special attack being an expose attack. The "old" expose weapons could be used to stun people when they are dropped, the old exploit weapons would vaporize people. This way, we could actually have the Federation not killing every enemy they encounter. Even if game-mechanically, the result is still the same - the opponent is "dead" and out of the fight.

And inflicing damage to exposed targets should just be a damage bonus, similar to flanking (and stacking with it, of course.)

Archived Post 04-06-2010 05:01 AM

I'm "meh" on your exploit/expose suggestion, I think it would make it much more boring tbh.

Reducing spawn sizes is a really great idea though. The ST universe isn't like other MMORPG universes, so it doesn't make sense to have 50-100 ground enemies on each map. It's the same with space combat; there are just way too many ships in each patrol mission. 40 Federation ships engaged the Borg at Wolf 359, yet there are 5-10 enemy ships on an average system patrol, with 3-4 system patrols on a sector patrol mission. Sure, the Dominion War involved more ships, but that was an actual war, not just a "random encounter" or "standard patrol" as these missions are billed. It doesn't make any sense that they've gone to so much effort creating a compelling Star Trek-style narrative that fits in with existing ST (i.e. non-"reboot") canon, and yet they've increased the number of enemies you're supposed to kill massively compared with the series or films.

Archived Post 04-06-2010 09:00 PM

Ground based PvE used to be better before they drastically upped hp during beta.

I wouldn't mind seeing base damage increased across the board and exploits turned into a free crit (which would stack with regular crits) rather than the current super damage.

The risk though for PvP would be if damage would still be sufficient to counter healing, though that would mostly be a problem in a one on one, which, if they ever fixed the stupidity of the queue system (you don't get removed from other queues when you enter a PvP match, thereby creating a lot of those unbalanced starts), should be that big of a deal.


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