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-   -   An idea to make the BoP more like the Star Trek series/movies (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=145694)

Archived Post 03-29-2010 10:29 AM

An idea to make the BoP more like the Star Trek series/movies
 
In the Star Trek Universe as we all know and love BoPs are no match for any fedration ship one on one. In any episode showcasing a BoP as an effective combattant it was part of a battle group of other BoPs.

In STO a BoP with the right captain could defeat any fed ship of the same level with the proper loadout. I would expect this to be true of a fed escort whose shields and hull strength should be much more than they are in game. But a BoP is supposed to be the pawns of the empire's fleet, expendable and geared only towards alpha strike.

So my suggestion/idea is to make each BoP weaker than it is by 1/3. Inversely make it so that your single BoP exists on the battlefield as 3 separate ships, sort of like a photonic fleet only the ships fly information with you at all times. When you hit the space bar all three ships fire simultaneously, albeit at a 1/3 normal rate. This way, when you lose one of your BoPs your DPS, max hull strength, and max shields are all reduced by 1/3.

At the same time make the BoP officer loadout more simplified. Only basic engineering and science abilities while offering multiple high level tactical abilities/officers.

Give the BoP superior DPS (with all 3 flying) to any other class on either side. And offer up 2x to forward shileds while taking the shield power from the sides and rear.

I would play the hell out of a BoP if this were in effect! There would be no concern for survivability in a BoP anymore. It would be "today is a good day to die" every time the ship decloaked! Even as a fed player I would prefer this. The ability to criple a BoP DPS would be a very likable idea. It would force even more strategic gameplay (i.e. as fed do you finish off the last BoP for the point making it so he can respawn, or as the Klingon do I self destruct to get my DPS back up again but force my team to take a point loss).

I think this would be an amazing change!

Edit: when reading the part about the photonic fleet please keep in mind I am not suggesting we use the photonic fleet AI by any means. I simply envisioned 2 other BoPs flying in formation with me firing simultaneously when I do etc...

Archived Post 03-29-2010 10:47 AM

I wonder if this could be implemented as a new type of ship? The ship would essentially replicate itself twice to create the other two copies in combat. Restrict the weapon loadout to 3 forward facing weapons and one aft, and possibly force one of the forward slots to be a torp. This would give the BoP 6 cannons with all three ships. Tack on an extra 33-40% to total weapon power and then cutting everything into thirds as your ships are lost. This way, even with one BoP you would still be doing "some" damage.

Any thoughts?

Archived Post 03-29-2010 11:33 AM

Thoughts...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0xygenthief (Post 2471719)
So my suggestion/idea is to make each BoP weaker than it is by 1/3. Inversely make it so that your single BoP exists on the battlefield as 3 separate ships, sort of like a photonic fleet only the ships fly information with you at all times. When you hit the space bar all three ships fire simultaneously, albeit at a 1/3 normal rate. This way, when you lose one of your BoPs your DPS, max hull strength, and max shields are all reduced by 1/3.

At the same time make the BoP officer loadout more simplified. Only basic engineering and science abilities while offering multiple high level tactical abilities/officers.

Give the BoP superior DPS (with all 3 flying) to any other class on either side. And offer up 2x to forward shileds while taking the shield power from the sides and rear.

I would play the hell out of a BoP if this were in effect! There would be no concern for survivability in a BoP anymore. It would be "today is a good day to die" every time the ship decloaked! Even as a fed player I would prefer this. The ability to criple a BoP DPS would be a very likable idea. It would force even more strategic gameplay (i.e. as fed do you finish off the last BoP for the point making it so he can respawn, or as the Klingon do I self destruct to get my DPS back up again but force my team to take a point loss).

I think this would be an amazing change!

I'm sorry but this is a terrible idea, plenty of positive thought and creative thinking, but this idea would just not work in game, sorry.

KBoPs are fine just the way they are in game, they don't need to be changed and even if they did, this suggestion is well, very dramatic and over the top.

Archived Post 03-29-2010 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alecto (Post 2472162)
this suggestion is well, very dramatic and over the top.

Really??

I mean, I understand you don't think the idea is sound but... why? You didn't really include any reasoning for your dislike for the concept...

What if you remove the BoP title and just consider this to be a new class of starship on either side? Would you still think it's a bad idea, if so why?

Archived Post 03-29-2010 11:54 AM

I think feds trying to change klingon gameplay should not post anymore.

Archived Post 03-29-2010 12:03 PM

Feedback
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 0xygenthief (Post 2471719)
So my suggestion/idea is to make each BoP weaker than it is by 1/3.

The KBoP doesn't need to be nerfed, there's just no need at all, and it works as intended. Also, this would upset many players who feel the ship never needed to be modified in the first place.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 0xygenthief (Post 2471719)
Inversely make it so that your single BoP exists on the battlefield as 3 separate ships, sort of like a photonic fleet only the ships fly information with you at all times. When you hit the space bar all three ships fire simultaneously, albeit at a 1/3 normal rate. This way, when you lose one of your BoPs your DPS, max hull strength, and max shields are all reduced by 1/3.

Current AI in game is not advanced enough to support this idea, and if it was, even the 3 nerfed KBoPs would have a much greater advantage over any other ship, especially the Cruisers. When they all fire together, there's no way of knowing for a fact that they will all stay in formation, if they were in formation they would do the normal damage that a KBoP does in game now to one enemies shield arc and if they wern't in formation, they would have a greater advantage, by being able to out flank ships and always get a lock on the weakend shield.

If the AI worked as intended, this idea would work very well for ships capable of Multi Vector Assault Mode.



Quote:

Originally Posted by 0xygenthief (Post 2471719)
At the same time make the BoP officer loadout more simplified. Only basic engineering and science abilities while offering multiple high level tactical abilities/officers.

Again many players would be upset about this, the best thing about the KBoPs at present is that they can be used any way the player wishes, using Engineering, Tactical and Science abilities of their choosing. The ships were designed primarily for battle sure, but they were also designed to be adaptive to multiple situations.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 0xygenthief (Post 2471719)
Give the BoP superior DPS (with all 3 flying) to any other class on either side. And offer up 2x to forward shileds while taking the shield power from the sides and rear.

The KBoPs have plenty of DPS in game currently and if you took shield power from the aft, port and starboard, these ships would be useless.

Archived Post 03-29-2010 12:40 PM

Now were talking!
 
Alecto, thanks for going into detail! Much better than your original post.

I think you are taking some of my posts out of context. Like quoting my desire to reduce the power of a single BoP by 1/3. Out of context it sounds awful. But what I actually said was to increase the BoP power by a good 33 to 40% with all three ships in formation. Only when down to one ship would you see a significant drop in DPS, hull strength, shield strength etc...

I play as a tac BoP and tac escort myself and love PvP on both sides! So please do not take this idea to be a Fed captain complaining in an effort to nerf the Klingons in any way.

I think you have the right idea though if implemented for both sides. A squadron of BoPs could equal a prometheus MVA mode. Three ships for each class lots of damage but each ship made of glass!

If using the BoP ship class is an issue for some how about adding the text "old" or "outdated" BoP to the mix to suggest 3 older models equate to just a bit more than 1 new BoP. How's that for a compromise?

Archived Post 03-29-2010 12:50 PM

Close but nothing quite so complicated
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alecto (Post 2472391)
Current AI in game is not advanced enough to support this idea, and if it was, even the 3 nerfed KBoPs would have a much greater advantage over any other ship, especially the Cruisers. When they all fire together, there's no way of knowing for a fact that they will all stay in formation, if they were in formation they would do the normal damage that a KBoP does in game now to one enemies shield arc and if they wern't in formation, they would have a greater advantage, by being able to out flank ships and always get a lock on the weakend shield.

I think I made a mistake by using the Photonic Fleet reference in my original post. My intent was to demonstrate to the devs that we alrady have a means to spawn extra ships with dummy AI. My concept was to take a step back from the AI, removing it completely. I wouldn't want the ships to go off on their own, I'd want them to stay in formation at all times thus maximizing the damage to a single shield facing.

If we already have the capability in-game to create dummy ships how hard would it be to create two dummy ships that mirrored yours with no added AI? Programmatically I wouldn't think the task would be too difficult.

As far as three ships having the advantage, that's the whole idea. Give the ships superior firepower in numbers but make it so they can be neutralized quickly if they try anything but hit and run tactics.

Archived Post 03-29-2010 01:19 PM

Nerfing any KDF ship at this point would be a bad idea. We have enough bug/lacking content issues on our side to keep Cryptic busy for a while without further constraints against our population base. If you are talking exclusively about PvE content then I am uncertain where the problems lie. I have had zero issues playing my Fed character (up to T2 at the moment) with PvE Klingons.

The BoP is not over powered. Sure it has BO access that Feds don't have until T2 but you really need to look at it from the stand point of what does each side have in ships from T1 and forward.

The KDF has a few ships that are rarely played (raptor comes to mind) due to limitations (BTW I have several raptors). So that really narrows our ship option base. The point is that if you are dissatisfied with the issues with T1 Fed ships, start a thread on the Fed side to have a T1 Fed ship buffed.

Certainly though I am definitely not stating that the Feds and KDF should have mirror ships. Many of you reading these forums have seen MMOs try to mirror classes and know that this ends in disaster.

I know it maybe tough for you Feds in T1 but things get a lot better in T2. Its real easy to get to T2 as a Fed, not as a KDF member (especially with the changes to PvP credits). So stick with it.

As a suggestion you may want to start a KDF member (if you don't already have one) and see how the other side lives. I have done the same and I'm up to T2 content (would have been further but I play my KDF main most of the time I'm online). I can honestly say that the population difference is staggering. Zone chat on the Fed side sounds like smack talk in the Trade within WoW (without the incessant Chuck Norris jokes). The KDF side is most of the time quiet with the occasion query or LFG.

Archived Post 03-29-2010 01:34 PM

Wow!!!! Really? Wow!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TwlightTemple
Nerfing any KDF ship at this point would be a bad idea. We have enough bug/lacking content issues on our side to keep Cryptic busy for a while without further constraints against our population base. If you are talking exclusively about PvE content then I am uncertain where the problems lie. I have had zero issues playing my Fed character (up to T2 at the moment) with PvE Klingons.

The BoP is not over powered. Sure it has BO access that Feds don't have until T2 but you really need to look at it from the stand point of what does each side have in ships from T1 and forward.

The KDF has a few ships that are rarely played (raptor comes to mind) due to limitations (BTW I have several raptors). So that really narrows our ship option base. The point is that if you are dissatisfied with the issues with T1 Fed ships, start a thread on the Fed side to have a T1 Fed ship buffed.

Certainly though I am definitely not stating that the Feds and KDF should have mirror ships. Many of you reading these forums have seen MMOs try to mirror classes and know that this ends in disaster.

I know it maybe tough for you Feds in T1 but things get a lot better in T2. Its real easy to get to T2 as a Fed, not as a KDF member (especially with the changes to PvP credits). So stick with it.

As a suggestion you may want to start a KDF member (if you don't already have one) and see how the other side lives. I have done the same and I'm up to T2 content (would have been further but I play my KDF main most of the time I'm online). I can honestly say that the population difference is staggering. Zone chat on the Fed side sounds like smack talk in the Trade within WoW (without the incessant Chuck Norris jokes). The KDF side is most of the time quiet with the occasion query or LFG.

Ummmm.....

It looks like you spent an awful lot of time writing your response so I say thank you for contributing. However, if you would have taken a fraction of the time you spent writing your response and applied that to reading the thread you would have realised that I wasn't suggesting a BoP nerf.

I could go into detail and take quotes from my own posts to discount EVERYTHING in your post. But that's simply too much work, especially since you didn't even take the time to READ in the first place.

So feel free to respond to this post if you like, though your time and effort would be better spent reading and editing your original post.

Cheers!


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