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-   -   Ship refit option - logical idea (feedback appreciated!) (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=149067)

Archived Post 04-08-2010 12:03 AM

Ship refit option - logical idea (feedback appreciated!)
 
I don't think I'm alone in enjoying the space combat a lot more than ground based combat but sadly, as you level, you're essentially forced into a new ship whether you like it or not. As I've mentioned in another thread elsewhere I think the T4 ships are the most complete and, dare I say it, most memorable available but once you hit T5 you're made to pick a new ship or lose out by sticking with the T4 equivalent.

What I propose is a refit option at the ship 'costume' NPC that would let you bump a ship up to the next tier but only one tier with a cost to the player similar to how respecs work. It would make it a considerable investment if based on player rank as 20k merits even for an RA5 is a grind. There's a reason I say only one tier and that's because ships like the Constitution refit cruiser are great at T2 and you can perhaps see it given an extended life to fit in at T3 with another refit but any higher would look silly due to the ship size scaling. I wouldn't go higher than one tier and I'd start it at T2 with it being bumped to T3 followed by T3 ships to T4, and finally T4 bumped to T5 with the option to tailor it to the option you want at T5.

How would the refit work? I've given it a bit thought and the 'best' solution I can think of breaks down into two parts.

The first is to basically overlay the next tier ship layout (consoles, weapon slots etc) onto the old ship. That takes care of the loss of damage and defense offered by lower tier ships.

The next obvious thing is the ship's hull, shield, turn rate and other things I might be forgetting. Lower tier ships have better turn rates than the higher level ships overall with a few exceptions but they also lose out when it comes to hull HP and shield totals. Shields I'm reasonably sure are tied to your level so aren't as much of a problem but hull HP and turn rate differences are. How would I correct for that? Perhaps a bit of a cheap way that works by using one change to cover both the hull and turn rate while seeming logical - thicker, more protective armour in the refit. It increases the mass of the ship and hull HP while decreasing the turn rate to be more in line with the next tier. It isn't ideal but that's why I'd perhaps limit it to about 90 - 95% of the next tier hull HP but turn rate would be at worst 120 - 130% to make up for it.

It makes sense in my head and sounds ok still in writing, perhaps a bit confusing although I've tried to make it easy to understand. I know I'm not the only person that wants a refit option in order to use a favourite ship beyond the level it was created for and this would make it more of an option than the one currently available where you use your favourite ship regardless of your level but face a self imposed penalty to hull HP, weapons, consoles and bridge officer slots. I don't know how popular my ideas on a refit will be but I'm hoping at least to get a solid idea that works in principle to help Cryptic give us what we want.

Archived Post 04-08-2010 12:10 AM

I approve this message and/or product.

Seriously, I am at T4 right now and I want to use my Galaxy at T5. Please please please Cryptic, give us a refit option. Pretty please?

Archived Post 04-08-2010 12:33 AM

Yes... Your'e not aloe..

An alternate version of this suggestion could be that you would actually have to buy the next equivalent rather than upgrading your current.

Archived Post 04-08-2010 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyonas (Post 2525992)
The next obvious thing is the ship's hull, shield, turn rate and other things I might be forgetting. Lower tier ships have better turn rates than the higher level ships overall with a few exceptions but they also lose out when it comes to hull HP and shield totals. Shields I'm reasonably sure are tied to your level so aren't as much of a problem but hull HP and turn rate differences are. How would I correct for that?

You'd be incorrect on turn rate. It is just some arbitrary value the devs assign. Sometimes they punish you because your ship is cosmetically bigger, but most of the time, nope.

Science Vessels, for example, are 12 for T2, 13 for T3, 12 for T4, and 13 or 9 for the T5s. Escorts do a similar bit of flip-flopping, in the 15 to 17 range. Cruisers go 9, 8, 6, 7.

Shields, by the way, are tied to their mark level and your ship type (cruiser, escort, SV, etc).

And it also leaves out crew size. Defiant, for example, has a crew of 50 in canon. That is lower than the escorts before and after it.

Overall, I'd say you're making it too complicated. Just keep it simple.

You can buy the uptiered ship for energy credits. Cannot get it with the free ship token, got to pay energy credits. Give it the appropriate hull, weapons, etc. Just use it as a bit of a cash sink. And say just the T4 looks available in T5 to start (although, personally, I'd like the T3 looks in T5). And obviously you'd need a variant for each T5 option (so for cruisers, one would count as a star, the other as assault).

Alternately, and probably better still, there could be just a single ship available (one each for cruiser, escort, SV, fed side), say something like Exploration Cruiser (Refit). It would require admiral to buy. It has the same weapon layout as the T5s. It counts as an exploration cruiser (so no T5 captain skill applies, which most of us would probably consider a good thing). It has an open ensign slot, like BoPs do, can stick any type of BOff you want in it. But you only get 8 consoles (4/2/2), as opposed to the 9 a T5 cruiser normally has. Crew size would match the T4 non-refit.

Archived Post 04-08-2010 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axterix
You'd be incorrect on turn rate. It is just some arbitrary value the devs assign. Sometimes they punish you because your ship is cosmetically bigger, but most of the time, nope.

Duly noted, although I did say there were some exceptions and that's what I was referring to without knowing they were arbitrary numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axterix
Overall, I'd say you're making it too complicated. Just keep it simple.

You can buy the uptiered ship for energy credits. Cannot get it with the free ship token, got to pay energy credits. Give it the appropriate hull, weapons, etc. Just use it as a bit of a cash sink. And say just the T4 looks available in T5 to start (although, personally, I'd like the T3 looks in T5). And obviously you'd need a variant for each T5 option (so for cruisers, one would count as a star, the other as assault).

That's a good way to go as long as the cost isn't too prohibitive. Lots of people have large amounts of energy credits and this seems as good a way as any to reduce that. Cryptic get a money sink, players get something they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axterix
Alternately, and probably better still, there could be just a single ship available (one each for cruiser, escort, SV, fed side), say something like Exploration Cruiser (Refit). It would require admiral to buy. It has the same weapon layout as the T5s. It counts as an exploration cruiser (so no T5 captain skill applies, which most of us would probably consider a good thing). It has an open ensign slot, like BoPs do, can stick any type of BOff you want in it. But you only get 8 consoles (4/2/2), as opposed to the 9 a T5 cruiser normally has. Crew size would match the T4 non-refit.

I also like this idea, perhaps used with the above part instead of one or the other. I particularly like the idea of the open ensign slot for the one it would be missing. In the final TNG episode we see that Riker picked the Enterprise D for his ship, albeit with some pretty tasty upgrades. They could limit it to T4 refit going to T5 with the money sink option to guage interest from players before offering other tier refit options.

Archived Post 04-08-2010 04:06 AM

well when the new k'tang class came out i got one with my general and slapped on my mark 10 antiproton weapons (2 turrets rear and a dual beam array dual heavy cannon forward) and all my other mark x shields engines ect and went into ra5 pvp with it thinking "they wont know what hit them" lol.

sad part was is even with only ensign level tac skills i still managed to rip the feds up with attack pattern alpha, lowly beam overload 1 rsp eng team 1 and sci team 1 hehe.

honestly it was a capture the area map and they didnt think my manueverable little tier 2 cruiser was a threat so they left me for last to fire at because ild rsp when they tried and rsp 1 is enough to fully heal a ktangs shields per hit heh, and eng team/sci team 1 with team training easily fully repairs the lil bugger as well, on top of it running circles around them!

i think the only ships not viable in pvp are the runabout and fed starting light cruisers, anything else flown right can still kill the enemy!

Archived Post 04-08-2010 04:35 AM

I don't doubt that smaller ships in capable hands can win in PvP and fully intend to grab my T2 cruiser at some point just to play for pure fun but if it was a T2 refit making it T3 that would add to the fun factor and your chance of doing more :D

Archived Post 04-08-2010 07:00 PM

Let's just get to the meat of the matter here. There are about three ship shells that are extra cool. There are three that are just butt-ugly. The rest are fine. Just give me a Fleet Escort (T5) that is as good looking as the Tactical Escort (T4) and don't make me ever fly the Good Ship Lollipop (you know which one I mean) and this whole discussion pretty much disappears.

Archived Post 04-09-2010 05:15 AM

Yea, T4 has all the ships from Next Gen, DS9 and Voyager so I can totally understand why people would want to keep them.

As long as I don't have to see Mirandas blasting 7 phasers while tanking a borg cube...

Archived Post 04-09-2010 11:13 AM

Personally, I love the refit idea.

I think when you gain your next rank, you should be able to turn in your get-a-free-ship credit for a Refit instead.

So, let's say I'm Science, in a Nova. I love the Nova, and I absolutely hate the Ball-on-head designs that are the next tier Science ships.

I want to use my free-ship credit for a refit.

So, I could refit my Nova, and get the following:

1 Lt Cmdr Science slot
1 Ensign science slot
1 Lt. Tactical Slot
1 Lt. Engineering slot

3 Science consoles

Hull stats, turn rates and weapons slots should change minimally, if at all. But the power should be increased to support Mk VI weapons systems.

This would be awesome.

So there WOULD be SOME sacrifice to refitting instead of moving to the next class, but you would still get to use your beloved ship, while having the major benefits of the next class.


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