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-   -   Balance PVE? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=168126)

Archived Post 07-15-2010 03:17 AM

Balance PVE?
 
I feel that Cryptic has done a nice job in balancing PvP play, but this has been done at the expence of PVE balance. Unless you're running an escort, taking down enemy ships take forever, and unless you're running a cruiser you risk beeing one-shotted by ships pumping out HYTs quicker than your resists can cope with...

Doing b'tran enemy confrontations on Elite:

- Cruiser - I never get killed, but it takes forever to complete mission.
- Sci Ship - I sometimes get killed, and it takes forever to complete mission.
- Escort - I get killed a lot, but the mission does NOT take forever to complete.

imo there are 3 high priority changes that needs to be done to NPC ships:

- Nerf HYT so one-shotting is not possible (having 4 quantums critting at 16000 each tossed at me means i'm dead even before the 4th hits me... especially when done twice in 30 seconds)
- Give NPCs global cooldown on abilities! Beeing hit by something, countering it, and beeing hit by it a second time 2 seconds later is just silly... (HYT, Borg Shield Neutralizer and more)
- Reduce NPC hull/shield strength to make battles shorter. What is the strength of a Nicor Cruiser? something like 40,000 shield and 100,000 hull?

Do NOT reduce the damage of the NPC, as this would make the battles easier! Just reduce the amount of shield/hull to make the battles shorter! AND remove the one-shotting abilities.

Archived Post 07-15-2010 05:48 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor

Doing b'tran enemy confrontations on Elite:

- Cruiser - I never get killed, but it takes forever to complete mission.
- Sci Ship - I sometimes get killed, and it takes forever to complete mission.
- Escort - I get killed a lot, but the mission does NOT take forever to complete.

This seems normal to me for both the vessel types and the fact that you play at elite.


Quote:

- Reduce NPC hull/shield strength to make battles shorter. What is the strength of a Nicor Cruiser? something like 40,000 shield and 100,000 hull?
I agree, upping the survivabilty of NPC's does not make for better combat. Instead upgrade the AI to use abilities and tactics better.
.
All in all I fail to see the "balance" issues you seem to think exist. At Elite difficulty such missions should play out as you have described for each vessel as you described.
If it is too hard try dropping to advanced or adjusting your ship loadouts.

Archived Post 07-15-2010 07:02 AM

Maybe you shouldn't run on Elite if it's so tough?

Archived Post 07-15-2010 09:26 AM

I am fairly new but I only run missions on elite because otherwise they're well.. boring to be honest. However, I'm a bit concerned about something:

If I get hit with a 4-5 torpedo salvo with full shields on and full hull, I will be taken down to 0 shields and 25% hull. No other attacks hitting me. So I'm wondering if it's WAI that NPC torpedos seem to do full damage to shields when the torpedos "we" fire basically just amuse shields? Or is there a special "salvo" power I'm not aware off that would allow "us" to also decimate shields with torpedos?

(I have learned to cope by becoming pretty adept at manoeuvring to stay away from their frontal attacks, as well as having several different heals hotkey'd and ready to deploy, sometimes preemptively. But I still wonder if this is WAI..)

Archived Post 07-15-2010 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoplite (Post 2848130)
Maybe you shouldn't run on Elite if it's so tough?

Is it? I never said so.

What i say is:

1. You risk beeing one-shotted. You really can't defend that as a feature?
2. Battles take too long unless you run an escort.

Archived Post 07-15-2010 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach (Post 2847866)
All in all I fail to see the "balance" issues you seem to think exist. At Elite difficulty such missions should play out as you have described for each vessel as you described.
If it is too hard try dropping to advanced or adjusting your ship loadouts.

Seriously? You don't see beeing able to one-shot someone as a tad OP? You like to go into battle knowing that luck will decide the outcome?

I really disagree that this is the way it's supposed to play out! I say that when you go into a battle with a good build and a good captain you should always have a chance to pull through without dying! If you die once in a mission, the mission FAILED! Even though you magically get a new life and a new ship!You were killed, you lost!

Play on adsvanced? Not interrested. If i can't do it on elite i'd rather spend my time doing something other than sto. but that's just me.

BTW:
Do you have any idea how arrogant you sounded when you suggested adjusting my loadout? Do you think i hit RA today? Do you think a combination of boffs/weaps/equipment/power/skills exists that i've not tried? (on my main that is (science officer)) I've spent several hours a day for months tweaking my build... and you rush in insinuating it's just something i threw together at random? I'm deeply offended, sir.

Archived Post 07-15-2010 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
Seriously? You don't see beeing able to one-shot someone as a tad OP? You like to go into battle knowing that luck will decide the outcome?.

I believe what others have been trying to point out is that while being one-shotted is definitely a possibility, with skill and the right powers it can be avoided.

Or stated differently, yes, the enemies have the ability to one-shot an escort on elite, but you (should) have the ability to avoid being the target of the shot if you play an escort on elite.

Archived Post 07-16-2010 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warem
I believe what others have been trying to point out is that while being one-shotted is definitely a possibility, with skill and the right powers it can be avoided.

Or stated differently, yes, the enemies have the ability to one-shot an escort on elite, but you (should) have the ability to avoid being the target of the shot if you play an escort on elite.

I fly a sci-ship. Enemy ships often fire HYTs from both ends. I fin it completely unrealistic that i should be able to stay within the 90' blind-spot for the entire match. This would be a remarkable feat even if flying a BOP, which i don't... In addition, to be able to wear down your enemies in a sci ship you really have to face towards your enemy very often to deploy sci powers.

I can survive by hitting BFI before i'm hit. This means i have to keep a distance of at least 1-2km to be able to react to it, and the way NPC escorts fly means they try keep the distance at 0km, this means you have to face the wrong way most of the fight if you want to have time to hit BFI. Another thing is the CD on BFI is wayyyy longer than the HYT cd.

Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of elite fighting, species like the Borg i find to be well balanced (except for the Shield Neutralizer not having a CD, which really sucks when you fly a sci-ship and rely on your shields to stay alive. Anyhow, this can be avoided with skill and is mostly an annoying time-consuming feature). Most other fights are also well balanced, but every now and then, in fights where i in retrospect can't see how i could have done anything better, i find myself beeing HYTed with BFI on cd and is insta-killed...

I could ofc swap out my RSP for Aux to D, but i believe most people will agree that RSP is a far more useful skill in most situations.

Archived Post 07-16-2010 05:38 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassem_Ultor
Seriously? You don't see beeing able to one-shot someone as a tad OP? You like to go into battle knowing that luck will decide the outcome?

No I don't. Elite is the highest, toughest setting for the game and it assumes you understood the risk involved. If this was PvP then maybe I would agree that something is amiss, but the only way the AI in pve can oneshot you is if you were caught off gaurd or unprepared for the attack to begin with.

Quote:

BTW:
Do you have any idea how arrogant you sounded when you suggested adjusting my loadout? Do you think i hit RA today? Do you think a combination of boffs/weaps/equipment/power/skills exists that i've not tried? (on my main that is (science officer)) I've spent several hours a day for months tweaking my build... and you rush in insinuating it's just something i threw together at random? I'm deeply offended, sir.

At what point does the phrase , "If it is too hard try dropping to advanced or adjusting your ship loadouts" hit upon being arragant or insinuate that you are not a good player? Its a simple piece of common advice that you are obviously to childish to accept gracciuosly and without malice.
Given this new look into you mentality and character all I can say is stop acting like a spoiled little ***** and grow-up.

Archived Post 07-16-2010 06:18 AM

So....you are whining that you "only play on elite" because you are too good for anything else, but you expect to be able to beat any elite ship quickly, and without any risks to your own ship?

Get over yourself.

And no, Roach isn't being arrogant. He is good. Read some of his tactical advice posts, you might even improve a little bit, without meaning to. Face him and a few others here in PvP, and you will find out you are probably not as "uber" as you think.

And FYI - I fly an Assault Cruiser, routinely in elite, and take down pretty much anything thrown at me in suitable time frames solo. Fleet wise, we will tear through mobs like a hungry man after steak and a beer. I have yet to even see one of our team die in elite with a 5 man run.

If your attention span is 30 seconds, in which you expect to beat any mission, get blue loot drops, and zero ship damage, then you are being a bit unrealistic. It is you that needs to adjust, not the game. I personally like it the difficulty slider the way it is.


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