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-   -   Cloak Fix Proposal (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=184009)

Archived Post 10-12-2010 09:52 AM

Cloak Fix Proposal
 
Problem: Balancing Cloak. Battle Cloak and Mask Energy Signature

Proposed Solution: Require a power drain.

Canon: as per Spock in TOS and confirmed numerous times elsewhere in Canon works, the problem of bending light (AKA cloaking) was the enormous power it required.

Discussion:

In PvP cloaking (Nebula or not) creates an incentive to remain out of the fight until your key abilities recharge. Things like RSP, Evasive Maneuvers and Batteries make Battle Cloak infinitely more effective. With the nerf to RSP this will only further BoP wait-fests that make for boring and lopsided PvP. Just to be clear, my Klink toon is in a BoP, and it's my favorite ship ... but without a cloaking solution, I fear for the vibrancy of the Klink faction--and for future Romulan PvP.

Regular Cloak and Mask Energy Signature are less problematic, but still unbalanced. There really is no counter for most players. You can't always pick your teammates, running 125 Aux truly gimps most playstyles, and forcing a ship (Nebula) or BOff choice (Mask Energy Signature to fight fire with fire) are klunky solutions.

I propose making a slow energy drain while cloaked. In 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25. Sure, you could have efficiencies to bring that back up and/or use the Emergency Powers skills to counteract it upon decloaking, and an EPS console or two to quicker recover the drained energy, but all of these things require using resources. Perhaps the numbers would need to be tweaked, but the goal would be to make cloaking most useful in extreme emergencies or in short intervals. Nobody likes waiting in an arena for a team of BoPs to fully recharge every BOff power before 5 seconds of alpha-strike combat followed by a made escape dash until Battle Cloak recharges and complete immunity allows forever to recharge and heal.

As difficult as it is to get consisten PvP games in STO, we don't need bore-fests where players leave the match mid-game from sheer boredom. And if you have seen the KvK queues lately, the who-will-uncloak-first waitfest is even more boring than FvK games.

The Nebula isn't and shouldn't be the only decent cloak detection. Random sensor scanning is Wasteful, boring, and captain-specific. Adding an canon-correct energy requirement would make the forever-cloaking borefests obsolete.

What are your thoughts on adding an energy drain requirement?

Archived Post 10-12-2010 10:20 AM

ahem... only if this dont result in even less player on the Klingon side. otherwise, it is a good idea.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 11:46 AM

I disagree. It's nothing but a nerf to the ships that can cloak, ships that already pay a pretty hefty price for the ability as it is. With what is in the game already and what is in the works we don't really need to change abilities as much as we need to change the players. Yes, running high aux to force out a cloaked ship is going to gimp certain play styles, just like running high weapons, shields or engines. It's a trade off.

Players need to work to flush out their opponents, not count on developers to change key mechanics to make their play time easier at someone else's expense. Cloaking is fine. Detection is fine. Work together and cloak doesn't really matter.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 12:35 PM

I think that aux should use the same mechanic as weapons, a per use drain and recharge. But beyond that I think battle cloak, MES, and regular cloak are fine since each require aux and can be detected by high aux.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 01:04 PM

This is an absurdly bad idea. Cloak would become utterly useless. As much as cloak detection needs improvement, its not by nerfing cloak into a power that is used for giggles.

Let me put this into perspective. A smart Fed team is going to full impulse around the map, wasting the KDF's time, forcing them to be in cloak and at full impulse so much that they won't ever have any power to actually decloak and attack. The real world result is that KDF would always, 100% of the time, be forced to run at 25 power if they want to cloak because the Feds are not going to let them line up an attack before the drain sucks out all the power.

When the KDF finally decloaks, they either won't be anywhere near the Feds, or they will be at an utterly useless 25 power thanks to your suggestion. No the Feds won't have the same, low power, because they can afford to sit and wait for the recharge after 30s (or any other arbitrary time period chosen), while the KDF is drained by cloak, unable to do anything to change that, except by giving up cloak entirely.

Power moves at a base rate of 5/s. That means if you are at 25 power it will take you 20 seconds to completely fill yourself back up to 125, where a BOP and raptor probably have their weapons power sitting. So the KDF would have zero alpha capability for at least 9-10s after decloaking if they even have an EPS console.

Worse, any energy drains by the Feds as the KDF decloaks would totally shut down the KDF, as they bottom out already low power. Tyken's rift on a decloaking ship would make it completely helpless in short order.

Forcing the KDF to use batteries or emergency power would only make things worse, because the KDF is already spending buffs just to get their power online, leaving them unable to do other buffs later, while the Feds can hold theirs in reserve or counter those buffs with SNB or whatever they please. That raptor used EPTW? Target shields, they can't reinforce them now with EPTS, and then the shields drop because of the low power.

It would make things even worse, number one by removing cloak from the game, number two by ensuring anyone who still used cloak to get away won't actually decloak before 30s are up, but will in fact full impulse away from the fight, decloak, repair as needed, wait for their abilities, then come back to the fight much later when their abilities are ready to go again.

This will never work, nor is it remotely fair to cloaking ships, in any way, shape, or form.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 01:12 PM

As SteveHale Already said... we don't need a cloak gimp and a nerf to drive what little is left of the klingon faction into other mmos.

We need a player base tactic change. There are so many ways to combat cloak right now in game not counting the Naboobula that the arguments are getting old. Perhaps you should switch to aux... perhaps you should use some mines. There are plenty of good tactics to find cloaks, you don't need a further gimp.

If your nerf battle cloak option was to reduce power a bit as MES already does... fine ok I want my HULL and Shield upped heavy in compensation. lol

Also really even if the cloak reduces power to 5... how does this stop people from cloaking up to wait for there cool downs again??? I guess now they cloaking waiting for the Emergency power to Wepons to Cycle too.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 04:43 PM

I agree with Stevehale and Husanak, this is nothing more than elabrate "Cloak" nerf and will solve nothing but put the KDF on the slow boat to faction death, while the feds come out on top again.

Quote:

I propose making a slow energy drain while cloaked. In 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25. Sure, you could have efficiencies to bring that back up and/or use the Emergency Powers skills to counteract it upon decloaking, and an EPS console or two to quicker recover the drained energy, but all of these things require using resources.
This will make the BoP completely ineffective in pvp and ruins the purpose of the vessel. Having to wait for all systems to recharge to standard parameters after cloaking will mean the death of the BoP and all who fly it might as well just roll over and let the feds kick us in the balls. Batteries won't help as you can only use one, EPT any system will not help as now you would have to have such a power and could only use one at a time. What you propose is nothing more than a nerf to the entire BoP and its combat abilities.

Quote:

Perhaps the numbers would need to be tweaked, but the goal would be to make cloaking most useful in extreme emergencies or in short intervals.
Funny, I don't remember the Klingons using cloaks as an emergency only ability anywhere in the series. The cloak has a use and your ideas will destroy that use , making the federation once again change the rules to suit themselves with no regards to others enjoyment of the game.
Batlle cloaks work in STO just like they have been portrayed in the movies and a TV shows, they area staple of the Klingon identity, and no one should be surprised that the KDF uses them much better ingame than the limitations of film required to move a storyline along for the amusement of the viewing public. This is not a movie or TV show and the federations are not the "hero" who never fails anymore. Get used to the fact that your opponents fight back with everything at their disposal and take no prisoners. Stop trying to change the game to suit your own egoes.

Quote:

What are your thoughts on adding an energy drain requirement?
I think it is an idea lacking in honest intelligent thought and is a thinly vieled attempt to nerf another faction just to improve your own gameplay, lack of skills and/or you "view" that the feds should always win in pvp because your the big damn heroes.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 06:29 PM

The cloak is fine as it is, you have your science ships collecting dust since the feds are so cruiser heavy now. Only using one ship type of your fleet is gimping you. Say the fed cruiser actually turn like they should in sfc it would just the same as the system you want for the cloak. And the cloak has improved 10 fold since tos. Look at general changs bird of prey and other cloaking ships in the universe. The defiant does not count its warp sigutre gave it away.

Archived Post 10-12-2010 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zev92 (Post 3090412)
The cloak is fine as it is, you have your science ships collecting dust since the feds are so cruiser heavy now. Only using one ship type of your fleet is gimping you. Say the fed cruiser actually turn like they should in sfc it would just the same as the system you want for the cloak. And the cloak has improved 10 fold since tos. Look at general changs bird of prey and other cloaking ships in the universe. The defiant does not count its warp sigutre gave it away.

ehh it seems the sci ship and sci captain numbers seem to be surpassing cruisers even. It is very common place now to see sci in all ships types. I know I am going to get flamed but the new tactic that is being tested and used is the hit and run and unfortunately I have left a few PvP matches because of it. I am not saying escorts ALL ships in this PvP kept doing it. Unfortunately I do not have 45 minutes to waste in an arena.

I only say this because there a couple of klingon fleets that will utterly wait an opposing team out cloaked. PvP has gotten so cliche with every patch a new this or that is nerfed and this or that is now overpowered.

PvP now feels like pre-1.2 just with different captains and ship types.

Archived Post 10-13-2010 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Data
I only say this because there a couple of klingon fleets that will utterly wait an opposing team out cloaked. PvP has gotten so cliche with every patch a new this or that is nerfed and this or that is now overpowered.

You in this post refers to the OP and those who think like him.

Being "waited" out in a match sucks and is the cowards way out. Would be better to accept the fact that one is outclassed and take your lumps.
What the OP proposes though is not a solution and will not solve the issue.

The BoP already suffers from these handicaps in part due to the BC;
- loss of shielding upon decloaking, with a slow climb for power to reset to standard working parameters
- fewer Hullpoints
- fewer Shield points and a very low Shield Cap.
- Battle cloak goes on a cooldown upon uncloaking and is unusable for that duration at all.


The OP's idea of;
- after 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25 and would not start reviving said systems until after decloaked.

This will not solve the problem of some players being cowardly or playing the "waiting game" in pvp, if anything it will just make matches longer as no Klingon is going to attack with all or any systems (except shields) at 25 power.
This will not solve the Hit-N-Run tactic from being used as once again the Klingons will merely wait until full powered before attacking, once again making the matches long and tediuos.

Overall its a useless nerf to Battle Cloaks wrapped in a false sense of trying to help the KDF with something that is not a problem or is working incorrectly.
If your opponents play the "waiting game" pity them for being cowards and remember them for next time you que-up, but to nerf a useful and well-functioning ability of a faction to justify your own selfish desires is wrong on any level.


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