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-   -   Federation Needs a Carrier Class Ship (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=185458)

Archived Post 10-23-2010 10:32 AM

Federation Needs a Carrier Class Ship
 
I keep seeing the Jupiter class federation ship all the time in game. I have played many pvp games against the Klingons:) in the admiral ranks and i find all the time no matter how hard we try \, we still loose to them sole based on they have two or more carriers on a team. that worse than trying to play the game on elite against a Borg swarm. It would just be nice to see when they raise the level cap that the feds get a carrier too.

Archived Post 10-24-2010 08:09 PM

I'll agree the Klingon Carriers seem to be a bit OP'd at the moment, but my fleetmates are also reporting carriers that very squishy. I think best way to explain it is a mix of KDF characters going "oooh, look new stuff! seventy1!", and the "Don't know how to counter this, therefore must be OP'd" train of thought. Happens every time somthing new is released. Give it a few months, and if they are really OP'd, the devs will probably implement a nerf at the next update.

That said, two carriers who know what they're doing are very deadly. But instead of calling for your own carrier, develop a few new ways of dealing with them - remember, all those bops disappear once the big ship goes boom.

Alternatively, if you want to fly one of them, why not come over to the red side...

Archived Post 10-25-2010 03:40 AM

Done some PvP in the past few days on my KDF char. Tried out the shmexy new Vor'cha refit. One thing I noticed about the Fed players is that the majority of them are flying either Cruisers or Sci ships, primarily the Nebula. Those things are beamboats... so they do lack the DPS of the good old Cannon packed Escort. That's a big problem for the Fed side because they lack the overall DPS the KDF always has die to most of the KDF ships packing cannons.

I do agree draco all over the line tho, everytime a new piece of candy comes out the majority of the players leap on it like heck. The nebula is nice for PvP... unless pretty much all of your fellow players fly one then you're just target practice for the KDF ships.

Archived Post 10-25-2010 03:52 AM

Ironically 2 of the ships historically that the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 was named after were AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.

Right now the Klngons are having a fit over the idea that the feds might get a carrier. I find it silly and very narrow minded of the Klingon players to fight something that is a natural progression of technology.

Historically Carriers have been and will be a major source of influence and power where ever they go in real life and in game. That is the nature of the carrier to get on the enemies door step with a ton of fire power and a mobile "airstrip" to strike at the enemy.

In this game the klingons have their carrier (I still wonder how the klingons would have the carrier and the feds not have one, considering as a race...Klingons on par are pretty stupid when it comes to creating their own technology.) and it is a major power to be dealt with that brings imbalance to pvp in a big way. Get two or more carriers together and it is a mess.

If PVP is to be fair the playing field MUST be leveled with each side having equal access to abilities and ship types. Anything else is asking for a nightmare to balance out otherwise canon or not.

Archived Post 10-25-2010 04:08 AM

First off, the problem is that until the Klingons' toys that can rival the Feds' they'll be sceptic because until recently it was like "when Klingons have it Feds must have it too, but Klingons have enough, all they should get is tooth paste. (No kidding!)

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...=tooth%20paste

Second, I play more Klingon than Fed, but I think it's allright that the feds get a ship tha can carry fighters.
However the Klingon Carrier that is currently ingame is not just a modile hangar, it is also a mobile drydock and according to some of the first bits of information we got about it in magazines etc it also has medical facilities, groundtroops etc.
It is a mobile outpost, hospital ship, planetary assault ship and a carrier in one.
The Feds should get a ship with fighters BUT it should not be something like the Klingon version because the Feds would use it in a defensive capacity.
The Klingon version is a mobile invasion base, something Starfleet has no use for.

And one last thing: I resent racist garbage comments like
"I still wonder how the klingons would have the carrier and the feds not have one, considering as a race...Klingons on par are pretty stupid when it comes to creating their own technology."
When were they displayed to be stupid?
The average Klingon soldier is no more stupid than the average Redshirt in Starfleet that freezes in shock when he sees a cloud (TOS:Obsession) and mindlessly pulls his Phaser at a Klingon in the presence of heavily armed warriors (TOS:Friday's Child).
Klingons have scientists
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kurak
They have Science officers in the KDF
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mara
And they know how to work with their technology (DS9:When It Rains...)

Archived Post 10-25-2010 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister_dee
First off, the problem is that until the Klingons' toys that can rival the Feds' they'll be sceptic because until recently it was like "when Klingons have it Feds must have it too, but Klingons have enough, all they should get is tooth paste. (No kidding!)

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...=tooth%20paste

Second, I play more Klingon than Fed, but I think it's allright that the feds get a ship tha can carry fighters.
However the Klingon Carrier that is currently ingame is not just a modile hangar, it is also a mobile drydock and according to some of the first bits of information we got about it in magazines etc it also has medical facilities, groundtroops etc.
It is a mobile outpost, hospital ship, planetary assault ship and a carrier in one.
The Feds should get a ship with fighters BUT it should not be something like the Klingon version because the Feds would use it in a defensive capacity.
The Klingon version is a mobile invasion base, something Starfleet has no use for.

And one last thing: I resent racist garbage comments like
"I still wonder how the klingons would have the carrier and the feds not have one, considering as a race...Klingons on par are pretty stupid when it comes to creating their own technology."
When were they displayed to be stupid?
The average Klingon soldier is no more stupid than the average Redshirt in Starfleet that freezes in shock when he sees a cloud (TOS:Obsession) and mindlessly pulls his Phaser at a Klingon in the presence of heavily armed warriors (TOS:Friday's Child).
Klingons have scientists
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Kurak
They have Science officers in the KDF
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Mara
And they know how to work with their technology (DS9:When It Rains...)

Key words are ON PAR. Simply put they are not known to be the sharpest tools in the shed and known to be a warrior race that does not does not have a stellar technological back ground. Not to say they don't have some smart ones among them....just not that many.

...Of course I am not saying you are stupid or people who play klings are stupid. ;)

Archived Post 10-25-2010 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevenstarr
Ironically 2 of the ships historically that the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 was named after were AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.
.

and before that the enterprise has a history of being a wooden/ sometimes ironclad war vessel, private sloop, a racing boat, privateer even a Military air balloon during the American civil war, all well before starting its Carrier life as a training boat in 1935-1945. SO why is the two to three times it was a carrier so important?
The KDF resents the feds getting a carrier only because the feds are crying "carriers are OP" and now they may get one. Its not the wanting the carrier thats upsetting, its the fact that the feds seem find aspects of other races they like, cry and get whatever they want thats what many find upsetting.

History of the name Enterprise.
http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

Archived Post 10-25-2010 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roach (Post 3113906)
and before that the enterprise has a history of being a wooden/ sometimes ironclad war vessel, private sloop, a racing boat, privateer even a Military air balloon during the American civil war, all well before starting its Carrier life as a training boat in 1935-1945. SO why is the two to three times it was a carrier so important?
The KDF resents the feds getting a carrier only because the feds are crying "carriers are OP" and now they may get one. Its not the wanting the carrier thats upsetting, its the fact that the feds seem find aspects of other races they like, cry and get whatever they want thats what many find upsetting.

History of the name Enterprise.
http://starchive.cs.umanitoba.ca/?SNE/

I am fully aware of the names of the various ships named Enterprise as well as the newest VSS Enterprise by Virgin Atlantic.

I can not prove this but I was once told directly by a DEV in game while they were playing along side us in Infected months ago that the Feds were going to get a carrier and it was on the drawing boards. So as far as I am concerned it is just a matter of time before We the FEDS get the carrier.

What I resent is the idea that the Klings refuse to admit there is a real imbalance to PVP where the carrier is concerned at this time. A step in the right direction was to give the defiant cloak and the reason I came back to the game. We can sit here and argue Canon all day long but in the end PVP has to be realistically balanced or one side will always have an advantage and the devs will forever be nerfing this or that to compensate.

If we the feds had a carrier ability and the klings did not I would endorse Klings getting one as well all for balance reasons.

Archived Post 10-25-2010 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevenstarr
Key words are ON PAR. Simply put they are not known to be the sharpest tools in the shed and known to be a warrior race that does not does not have a stellar technological back ground. Not to say they don't have some smart ones among them....just not that many.

...Of course I am not saying you are stupid or people who play klings are stupid. ;)

I take no personal offense from this, don't worry.:)
However when you think about the Klingons keep something in mind:
One of the strangest aspect of Star Trek is that besides the main characters, everyone
else usually appears to represent some kind of stereotype or is somewhat stupid.
Like the nameless redshirts in TOS or even in TNG.
A strong example is the fact that every time O'Brien left DS9 for a few days the station was
on the brink of breakdown.
I seriously doubt that EVERYONE else on the station is so incompetent that they can't fix the darn thing.
He must have left word what to do when something breaks down, instruction manuals, maintenance logs.
But appearently both Starfleet and Bajoran engineers alike must be too dumb to use them, or they are illiterate.
Same is the case with the Klingons that usually show up, at best they get a name and a few short lines and little else.
A direct counterargument to your assesment can be seen in DS9:"Sons and Daughters" where Worf's son and a Klingon officer with whom he had an unfriendly encounter in the mess-hall earlier went down to engineering to seal a leak in the impulse injector.
They did so calmly and took care of the issue without problem.
Afterward Worf's son managed to lock himself inside the room where he was supposed to put the tools.
The officer overrode the lockdown on the door in a typical professional manner.
No fuss, no shouting or growling.
As for the technological background, keep in mind the Klingons developed warp-drive on their own and began to explore the stars before they were conquered by the Hur'q so their technological background is not as bad as it may seem.

The 'average' Klingon can be seen in episodes like TNG:"A Matter of Honor" and he's actually quite friendly and observant: "You are not what I expected. [...] "You have a sense of humor."

So without holding a grudge or anything I'd like to have an example of the average Klingon being less adept at technology than the average Starfleet ensign.:)
But please make it one that goes beyond "everybody knows that..." because that's the kind of cliché I so very much dislike.

Don't mistake a lack of patience for mental inadequacy.
I've met a few loud, somewhat rough folks in my life that turned out to be not as foolish as they looked at first glance.
Klingons are pretty much like a bunch of football players and even with them not every cliché about how dumb they are is not true.:p

Archived Post 10-25-2010 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sevenstarr
Ironically 2 of the ships historically that the USS Enterprise NCC-1701 was named after were AIRCRAFT CARRIERS.

Right now the Klngons are having a fit over the idea that the feds might get a carrier. I find it silly and very narrow minded of the Klingon players to fight something that is a natural progression of technology.

Historically Carriers have been and will be a major source of influence and power where ever they go in real life and in game. That is the nature of the carrier to get on the enemies door step with a ton of fire power and a mobile "airstrip" to strike at the enemy.

Historically, we never had space-faring vessels capable of conducting warfare in space.

Historically, there were long times when there were no carriers at all. That was because we didn't have planes. We were quite capable of building smaller boats, but no one thought it would be advantegous to carry a lot of small boats with cannons and send them to fight instead of the larger ship. Boats were used to get people on the ground or maybe get someone aboard another ship.

And that's exactly the situation in space. A small spacecraft can reach exactly the same areas a large spacecraft can reach.
The only reason to use small spacecraft is because you can't afford large spacecraft. Or your transporters are down and you need to get someone on the ground.


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