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Archived Post 01-03-2011 10:40 AM

A Shield Guide - Comparisons and Charts
 
This thread is to show the effectiveness of shields arrays and can serve as a guide to why you might want to use a particular shield over an alternative shields.

This research is mostly based on "theorycrafting" and mathematics - It is based on the numbers that define a shield and give insight about a shield's performance over the course of a battle, but a typical space battle is dynamic and there are many factors that my analysis cannot account for.

During the discussion on the new set items there was a lot of talk about how no one would want a shield array that isn't a covariant shield with the highest number of [CAP] modifiers. The Borg set was particularly criticized for offering "only" Regenerative Shields.
People like their shield capacity, and it seems no one really cares much about regeneration.

An assumption I had when making my my shield comparisons was that the longer you can stay in battle and keep regenerating your shields, the more impact a higher regeneration will have, and the less its base capacity has. I was basically calculating at what point this would occur.

Some basic mechanics behind shields:

Shield Regeneration
Shields apply their regeneration value to all shield facings every 6 seconds. "Overheals" (for example when a shield isn't damaged at all) are lost. That's why it is good to distribute shield power to equalize the facings so that every shield gets some healing. (This won't do much if you are already under attack from all side.)

The regeneration value is modified by your shield power. At 50 shield power, you have the number listed in a shield's description. For every point above 50, you shield regeneration value increases by 4 %, and for every below, it reduces by 4 %.
Formula: (1 + (Power Level - 50) / 25) x Base Regeneration at 50. Note that this formula doesn't really apply below 25 power - you would normally get a negative regeneration then, but this is not applied to your ship. Otherwise, you would lose shields at Full Impulse. Only if you are using an ability that brings your shield power to 0 do you lose shield capacity.

Shield Damage Reduction
Shield Power also grants your shields damage reduction. This damage reduction is Shield Power / 500.
Other powers also grant your shields damage reduction. There is a hard cap at 75 %.
Note that shield damage reduction does work differently from resistance modifiers for hull. It directly reduces all damage to shields, while there is a special formula for diminishing returns with hull resistance modifiers.
It can be handy to calculate your "effective" shield points with the damage reduction values. Your effective shield points are determined as follows: Shield Capacity x (1 / (1 - Damage Reduction)). If you could get 100 % shield resistance, the value for Resistance would be 1.0 and the formula would lead us to a infinite value - of course, if you take no damage at all, your shields are effectively infinite.

While this is handy to know, it is not really that crucial for comparing covariant and regenerative shields in my calculations. Since the resistance value is also applied to the shield points that get generated over time, the results don't really change. The consideration is still the same as before - can I live long enough for the regeneration to matter?

Effective Shield Points Over Time
Your effective Shield Points over time (in seconds), based on your base shield capacity, your regeneration value, and shield power and with an optional additional damage reduction value is as follows:

(Shield Capacity + ((1 + (Power Level - 50) / 25) x Base Regeneration) * (Time/6) ) x (1 / (1- Power Level/500 + Optional Additional Damage Reduction))


Visualization
Any lame (or decent?) mathematician would now use this formula with the values of two different shields at the same power level and no additional damage reduction, equate them, and resolve for time. Sounds boring, right?

Well, what I did was creating a chart in Excel and resolve the formula for different shields, different times and different power levels and check what would happen.
What I was looking for was the same as the mathematician - at what point in time would the effective shield capacity regenerated over time be higher for a shield slanted for regeneration over a shield slanted for capacity?

I made the following charts from those numbers to help visualize the results:

The following charts are based on my Tactical Vice Admiral Tactical Escort Retrofit Captain mostly.
She is trained in the Tier 3 and Tier 4 skills to about 5 ranks, fully trained in his Tier 5 skill, and at about 7 at the Tier 1 and Tier 2 ship command skills. I took a all these values from the values listed by vendors when I was in Earth Space Dock on Tribble.
The Tier 1 shield data actually comes from the stowiki.

The chart might look somewhat different for players with different skill selections, and for different ships. A Science Vessel for example has a bigger shield capacity then the Tactical Escort. Generally, the more bonuses you get for your shield capacity, the more shields with a high innate value benefit.

Below are the charts for all bog standard Mark I shields.
Below are charts for rare Mark X shields. I used rare Mark X since I could easily get their statistics from the Exploration vendors. The above charts have an additional annotation. Since it gets a little dense with data points and lines, I marked the major points where shields "catch up".

Observations
For Mark I shields, you will notice that the resilient shield seems to suck for a long time - well, my math above is unfair. I didn't really account for the fact that is has 5 % additional damage reduction that bring its bleedhtrough down to a 5 %. Oops. The problem here is that it's hard to evaluate what that reduced bleedthrough means in the shield comparison.

For just considering shield capacity alone, well, bleedthrough is non-damage. Having less of it makes no difference for the shields. But I suppose that everyone that remembers dying from bleedthrough under a Reverse Shield Polarity will feel differently about that. Let's leave this for another discussion.

For the Mark I shields, you can see that at 100 shield power, it takes about 48 seconds until a Regenerative Shield catches up to a Covariant shields. At 50 Shield Power, it takes about 144 seconds instead.

For the rare Mark X shields, it takes about 54 seconds at 100 shield power for the Regenerative [Reg]x2 shield to catch up with the Covariant [Cap] x2 shields. It takes about 42 seconds to catch on with the Covariant [Reg]x2 shield.
At 50 shield power, it needs 156 seconds and 120 seconds respectively.

What does that mean for the shield comparison? Which one should you take?
When discussing whether you want capacity or regenerative - go all the way. Either focus fully on capacity, or focus fully on regeneration. Covariant shields with Reg mods are quickly surpassed by regenerative shields, and Regenerative shields with capacity bonuses are quickly surpassed by regenerative shields with regeneration bonuses.

Whatever shields you are currently using, think about how long you last in combat when under fire. How long does it take for your shields to fall and you getting into trouble? You run at 100 shield power most of the time (be it with buffs or just because that's how you set shield levels).
Does it take less then 50-60 seconds? Get the best Covariant Shields with the most Cap mods you can get.
Do you last more then 50-60 seconds? Get the Regenerative Shields with the most Reg mods you can get.
You run at 50 shield power? Same question and answes, but with 156 minutes (2 1/2 minutes)).

When thinking about your shield power and regeneration, consider these aspects, too:
  • When you cloak a lot, your shield power is often 0.
  • If you expect to get a lot of shield heals, innate regeneration becomes less valuable.
  • If you're already dead, you won't benefit from the shield regeneration, just from the respawn. :)


Of course, this is still a little too easy. 2 more things to consider:
  • Distributing Shield Power. Your effective regeneration might be 4 times higher, which would mean the numbers above are inflated and could be about as 1/4 as long. Unfortunately, this is ignoring one thing - you are also distributing the already existing shield capacity. So you also have to multiply your shield capacity with a factor of 4, too, in all the calculations. This inflates the numbers of shield capacity (now describing the full capacity of your shields across all 4 facings), but it won't change the times.
  • Shield Heals. There are tons of this flying around in this game. The reason you survive your covariant shields for 50 seconds might actually be due to the generous application of shield heals. And these ones clearly benefit covariant shields. You are more likely to not waste any shield points on covariant points, and the healing values tend to vastly exceed the amount of healing from regeneration.

All in all, I see why people prefer to go Covariant. And I am afraid I will have to say good bye to my Regenerative Shield Arrays, too. 50 seconds is a lot of time in PvP,and I have a lot of heals on my ship(s)... I might still take the Borg Shield Array, though - assuming I have a full set and get the bonus heals.

From a game design perspective, I think Cryptic will have to reevaluate a few aspects on shields if they want to make them more competitive.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 10:55 AM

Reserved Just In Case

Archived Post 01-03-2011 10:57 AM

excellent analysis...I've always wished that the non-covariant shields were more competitive, and in certain cases, maybe they are.

But in order to survive an escort alpha strike, and sustain a 10 second long battle...it seems covariant is the way to go no matter how you slice it.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:07 AM

Hangover_Boy said " But in order to survive an escort alpha strike, and sustain a 10 second long battle...it seems covariant is the way to go no matter how you slice it."
A full regen setups works just as well if not better. I found with the best regeneration shields with 4 consoles each boosting 14% to shield recharge I could pretty much never die. It helps that the borg shield has a decent cap to survive Alpha and very high regen. In most PvE I never even bother to use skills and I could sit there all day long and the shields would never drop, while a covariant shield would need skills to survive. Even a single Escort would struggle to take down a full regen based setup.

EDIT: Another way to look at it 50 seconds might seem like a long time but with a maxed out regne setup you can last longer than 50seconds unless it's like 4 on 1 and then it doesn't matter which method you choose. While a maxed out covariant is limited until the buffer runs out, so a regen setups often will last longer.

EDIT2: Another point. 50seconds is at 100 shield power. Once you add in 125 shield power and its even less then 50 seconds before a regen shields starts being better then a Covariant. When I ran my shield setup I had 100 base shield power which was pretty much constantly at 125 due to Emergency power to Shields and other skills.

I would like to see a Borg regna shield with x4, 14% shield recharge modules compared to the best buffer Covariant s setup.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:15 AM

That's pretty much how I interpret it, too.

To survive an alpha strike in any PvP situation, you need Covariant with [cap]x2. The only way regenerative comes into play is if you have ample Boff Skills that can withstand the alpha strike. Then, you get 10 - 30 seconds of cool down time before the next strike. Regen may be beneficial during that time because you will gain more shield strength while the abilities are on cooldown. Hopefully that means you will be recharged and ready to go for the 2nd strike.

But, don't shields only regenerate after a certain amount of time of not taking any damage?

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:19 AM

MustrumRidcully said "What I was looking for was the same as the mathematician - at what point in time would the effective shield capacity regenerated over time be higher for a shield slanted for regeneration over a shield slanted for capacity?".
Did you factor in consoles? As far as I am aware you can only fit 1 Hitpoint console but you can fit up to 4 shield regen ones. If you didn't factor in consoles then " Does it take less then 50-60 seconds? Get the best Covariant Shields with the most Cap mods you can get.
Do you last more then 50-60 seconds? Get the Regenerative Shields with the most Reg mods you can get.!"
could be a bit of a flawed thing to say.

Another thing I often wondered, If you want buffer why even use Covariant shields. Why not use armor? I armor tank as it seems far better then shield regen or shield buffer. I never understood why so many people shield tank.


EDIT: Wertez said "But, don't shields only regenerate after a certain amount of time of not taking any damage?"
Strangely the other way around they seem to regen more when taking damage. It seems to be the case the regen drops massively once you stop taking damage.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:39 AM

so let me condense this for the people who can't read a wall of white letters on a black background:

Important notes:
1. Mark 1 regenerative shields will produce as much shielding (over time) as a covariant shield over 145 seconds at 50 power level
2. Mark 1 regenerative shields will produce as much shielding (over time) as a covariant shield over 50 seconds at 100 power level

Now, down to the nitty gritty:
1. any mark XI regenerative shield will produce more shielding (over time) than a mark XI covariant shield after 175 seconds at 50 power level
2. the mark XI covariant [capx2] shield is the best covariant shield to have at 50 power level
3. the mark xi regenerative shields produce the most shielding (over time) of other shield types given 50+ seconds at 100 power level

The problem with this chart is that it doesn't have an accompanying analysis of DPS over time from DHC and DBB weapons.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pottsey
MustrumRidcully said "What I was looking for was the same as the mathematician - at what point in time would the effective shield capacity regenerated over time be higher for a shield slanted for regeneration over a shield slanted for capacity?".
Did you factor in consoles? As far as I am aware you can only fit 1 Hitpoint console but you can fit up to 4 shield regen ones. If you didn't factor in consoles then " Does it take less then 50-60 seconds? Get the best Covariant Shields with the most Cap mods you can get.
Do you last more then 50-60 seconds? Get the Regenerative Shields with the most Reg mods you can get.!"
could be a bit of a flawed thing to say.

I did not take into account consoles. Keep in mind a few things:
- At least one console you can have could be a +35 % shield capacity booster console. This will always be a bigger benefit to the Covariant Shields.
- AFAIK, the bonus from the regenerative consoles are applied to the base regeneration, and this extra bonus does not benefit from the extra shield power. (And consider that 5 points of shield power already give you +20 % regeneration, and the 50 second value is basically when you already have a very high shield power)
- It still doesn't account other sources of shield heals. (Which admittedly, my math does not either, only my final remarks.)

[quote]
Another thing I often wondered, If you want buffer why even use Covariant shields. Why not use armor? I armor tank as it seems far better then shield regen or shield buffer. I never understood why so many people shield tank.
[quote]
It's simply because it is more effective currently in the game. Shield resistances are easy to get and have a great uptime thanks to Emergency Power to Shields. Also, it is kinda more forgiving if you can rely on your shields too last some time and only have in emergency cases fix your hull - if you screw up shield healing, you still got some hull, but if you screw up hull, you're dead.

Quote:

EDIT: Wertez said "But, don't shields only regenerate after a certain amount of time of not taking any damage?"
He seems to be talking about ground combat shields, that work like that. Shield regeneration in space happens in 6 second intervals.

Archived Post 01-03-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP3CTREnyc
The problem with this chart is that it doesn't have an accompanying analysis of DPS over time from DHC and DBB weapons.

Get working!

Nagorak made an interesting post about damage based on energy levels and numbers of weapon used, but unfortunately, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

How much damage does the Alpha Strike of the average escort inflict? And how do we account for the fact that the ship is not just made from sheilds, but also hull? That makes quite a difference in what types of buff are used. Attack Pattern Beta for example is a strong power - but it only applies to hull...

Archived Post 01-03-2011 12:34 PM

MustrumRidcully said " It's simply because it is more effective currently in the game. Shield resistances are easy to get and have a great uptime thanks to Emergency Power to Shields. Also, it is kinda more forgiving if you can rely on your shields too last some time and only have in emergency cases fix your hull - if you screw up shield healing, you still got some hull, but if you screw up hull, you're dead."/
True screw up your hull and your dead but it's a lot harder to screw up your hull as it's so much better at tanking. I use my shields to absorb the Alpha then my real tank kicks in.

Are shields really more effective? I have one of the smaller cruisers at 50.7K hull with 4 resistance consoles that's 43.6% resistance without factoring in skills, or you can go for consoles that boost the healing amount and use the skills to boost resistance. Surely that's a way bigger buffer then even Covariant shields can hope to get?

The heal them self seem way better as well. Engineering Team will give over 10k a heal far more then the shield heals. Hazard Emitters gives over 16k heal and 30% damage resistance. Aux to Structural field is over 6k every 15 seconds with 45% resistance. It seems to me from a buffer and healing point of view hull/armor tanking is far more effective. Unless I messed up the math shields have both a much smaller buffer and much smaller heal over time. So why when every second counts in PvP do so many people shield tank? (I run at 100 weapon power and 84 Aux with only 1 science console boosting heals, so those heals are nowhere near max)

Admittedly I only looked at with this from a Cruiser point of view. But wouldn't an Escort end up with a bigger buffer and more heals with Armor tanking as well?

If you are going for best survivability it seems to me Armour tanking is best followed by Regen shields with the Covariant shields coming out very poorly in comparison.




MustrumRidcully said " - AFAIK, the bonus from the regenerative consoles are applied to the base regeneration, and this extra bonus does not benefit from the extra shield power. (And consider that 5 points of shield power already give you +20 % regeneration, and the 50 second value is basically when you already have a very high shield power)"
Granted I am not sure how it all stacks but it all stacks up to quit a big difference from testing. 56% from up to 4 consoles plus another 100% from going up to 125 power. Now add on 50 to 90 points per second from skills and you can soon find your survivability is far longer than a buffer setup with Covariant even in PvP. Plus all that regen is per facing.




MustrumRidcully said " - At least one console you can have could be a +35 % shield capacity booster console. This will always be a bigger benefit to the Covariant Shields."
But you can only fit one of those. You can fit up to 4 regen consoles. Plus each regen consoles is per facing so that's x4 the benefit. You might find if you do a full investigation that a regen shield with regen console setup vastly out survives a Covariant buffer setup. Would that not change the following conclusion? " All in all, I see why people prefer to go Covariant. And I am afraid I will have to say good bye to my Regenerative Shield Arrays, too."


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