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-   -   Why does Nemesis get such a bad rap? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=202582)

Archived Post 02-16-2011 10:43 PM

Why does Nemesis get such a bad rap?
 
So I've been watching all the Star Trek movies again, and I have to ask, why do so many people hate Insurrection and Nemesis? I mean, they aren't as good as say Wrath of Khan, but then, what is?

Take Nemesis. The overall plot is decent, the issues it explores through the vital differences between Data/B4 and Picard/Shinzon are well done (overall) and while Shinzon himself is hardly the best movie villain the creepy Viceroy picks up a lot of the slack and the battle itself is great.

Is it because Data dies? Because, literarily speaking Data coming back through B4 couldn't be a bigger Chekov's gun if they'd tried.


Edit: Huh, I could have sworn I was posting this in 10F, no matter, not worth a clone thread. Then again, we are talking about Nemesis.

Archived Post 02-16-2011 10:45 PM

Find out in 10 Forward. :p

However, to answer your question, this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZjkHUrEuHc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoWfTq8dYos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DT7sSp-3_I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi5mj6-CUiY

Archived Post 02-16-2011 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokesmith (Post 3364756)
So I've been watching all the Star Trek movies again, and I have to ask, why do so many people hate Insurrection and Nemesis? I mean, they aren't as good as say Wrath of Khan, but then, what is?

Take Nemesis. The overall plot is decent, the issues it explores through the vital differences between Data/B4 and Picard/Shinzon are well done (overall) and while Shinzon himself is hardly the best movie villain the creepy Viceroy picks up a lot of the slack and the battle itself is great.

Is it because Data dies? Because, literarily speaking Data coming back through B4 couldn't be a bigger Chekov's gun if they'd tried.

My only problem with Nemesis is that the Director had complete contempt for Star Trek as a whole...


What the Hell did we need a 10 minute dune buggy chase for??

Archived Post 02-16-2011 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor

You are right, this should have been 10F and I goofed, but phrasing it like that comes off a bit - brusque.

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokesmith (Post 3364756)
So I've been watching all the Star Trek movies again, and I have to ask, why do so many people hate Insurrection and Nemesis? I mean, they aren't as good as say Wrath of Khan, but then, what is?

Take Nemesis. The overall plot is decent, the issues it explores through the vital differences between Data/B4 and Picard/Shinzon are well done (overall) and while Shinzon himself is hardly the best movie villain the creepy Viceroy picks up a lot of the slack and the battle itself is great.

Is it because Data dies? Because, literarily speaking Data coming back through B4 couldn't be a bigger Chekov's gun if they'd tried.


Edit: Huh, I could have sworn I was posting this in 10F, no matter, not worth a clone thread. Then again, we are talking about Nemesis.


My problem with the Data/B4 substory is - IT WAS ALREADY DONE in the series to deth with Lore (hell, including Lore somehow might have made it better/more interesting.) It felt like a complete rehash; and if I wanted that, I could rewatch certain episodes.

The whole Shinzon aspect started out okay - but once we find out he's somehow a clone of Picard, etc. Ugh. It was done to give Picard a nemesis of sorts, yes; but the reason Khan works as Kirk's nemesis for STII:TWoK is BECAUSE of the previous history and encounter between Kirk/Khan. It doesn't work well for Shinzon/Picard because while yes, Shinzon is a clone - the characters never met before - and it comes across as a really cheap/gimmicky plot device.

Again, as another example - ST:First Contact's drama works so well BECAUSE of Picard's history with the Borg - like STII; it bulilds on that history. In Nemesis Shinzon is just another mustache twirllling Villian that the audience never saw before and never will again. Nemesis, for me, just comes across as a bad rehash of previous TNG plots (and hell, for me even the space battles are inane with them calling out shield percentages left and right - /yawn.)

Obviously, you enjoyed it more; but to me it was a rehash with some nice visuals (and as someone who loathed Voyager - I could have done without yjr 'Admiral Janeway' cameo all together.) ;)

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokesmith (Post 3364765)
You are right, this should have been 10F and I goofed, but phrasing it like that comes off a bit - brusque.

I still agree with Plinkett.

Nemesis = Clunky, horror movie version of Wrath of Kahn. :p

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:17 PM

I watched about half his review (I really should be in bed already or I would have watched it all) and he does have some valid points. Its just, somehow, not enough to make me dislike the movie. Definitely not the best Trek film (though still not as bad as V or as boring as I) but I enjoyed it.

I dunno, maybe I'm just set up to naturally like anything Trek? I blame my parents, they're the ones who literally raised me on the stuff.

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:19 PM

Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. The question isn't why don't you like ST:N, but why do you hate it so much?

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor

wow. /10char

Archived Post 02-16-2011 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rokesmith (Post 3364814)
Maybe I'm asking the wrong question. The question isn't why don't you like ST:N, but why do you hate it so much?

I wouldn't say I hate the movie, but i do agree with Lord Plinkett on this one.

Its nearly a direct plot rip off of Wrath of Khan, with lots of pointless action, plot holes, and lack of quality and smarts thrown in for good measure. The videos just happen to put it into far more detail.


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