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-   -   Tranphasic weapons - A suggestion (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=213985)

Archived Post 05-05-2011 04:28 AM

Tranphasic weapons - A suggestion
 
I'm aware that at the moment transphasic weapons aren't really pulling their weight and the devs have acknowledged that they need a little love. This is a suggestion as to how they could work in the future.

Instead of having an improved shield penetration, they could be changed to improve their actual ability at damaging shields. Not so much that they can be used to force a ship to drop their shields, bt enough so that more damage "overflows" into hull damage.

I will demonstrate below:
(note, I will be fudging the numbers here to make it easier to demonstrate, but hopefully you will get the point)

Quantum torp vs transphasic

Vs a ship with 0 shields

Quantum = 1000 damage
Transphasic = 800 damage


Vs a ship with 200 shields left:
Quantum hits, doing one quarter of damage to shields.
Shield damage 200 (800), 200 damage overflows to hull.

Transphasic hits, doing one half of damage to shields.
Shield damage 200 (400), 400 damage overflows to hull.

This would mean that in scenarios where the enemy shield regens a tick just before your attack hits (particularly useful for mines) you would achieve better damage than with a weapon with a higher base damage. They wouldn't be overpowered, as in situations where you can guarantee 0 shield you will achieve better damage with another weapon type, but they would still have their use.

What do you think?

Archived Post 05-07-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born2Hula (Post 3523269)
I'm aware that at the moment transphasic weapons aren't really pulling their weight and the devs have acknowledged that they need a little love. This is a suggestion as to how they could work in the future.

Instead of having an improved shield penetration, they could be changed to improve their actual ability at damaging shields. Not so much that they can be used to force a ship to drop their shields, bt enough so that more damage "overflows" into hull damage.

I will demonstrate below:
(note, I will be fudging the numbers here to make it easier to demonstrate, but hopefully you will get the point)

Quantum torp vs transphasic

Vs a ship with 0 shields

Quantum = 1000 damage
Transphasic = 800 damage


Vs a ship with 200 shields left:
Quantum hits, doing one quarter of damage to shields.
Shield damage 200 (800), 200 damage overflows to hull.

Transphasic hits, doing one half of damage to shields.
Shield damage 200 (400), 400 damage overflows to hull.

This would mean that in scenarios where the enemy shield regens a tick just before your attack hits (particularly useful for mines) you would achieve better damage than with a weapon with a higher base damage. They wouldn't be overpowered, as in situations where you can guarantee 0 shield you will achieve better damage with another weapon type, but they would still have their use.

What do you think?

They could also make them as badass as they were in the series and switch their skill's place with tricobalt's

Archived Post 05-07-2011 04:49 PM

As long as cooldown remains unchanged, then it should this should be fine. Any faster, though, and you threaten to render photon useless.

Archived Post 05-08-2011 02:57 AM

Or have them, recharge as fast as Torps lower the Damage by half. And 100% shield penetration.
Would be similiar to the show then.

Archived Post 05-08-2011 12:29 PM

I've always thought scaling the proc would be a good idea.

90% chance of 10% bleed through,

80% chance of 20%,

70% chance of 30 % etc

The exact ratios would obviously need testing and tweaking and are purely for demonstrational purposes, but it'd make them more intresting, they'd have the potential to "lay the smack down" on someone like other torps, but not with the certainity to make it a garaunteed uber-torp. I think the various odds of different penetrations would balance it out, so it'd be more effective, but not so bad people instantly cry out for the nerf.

Another idea I had was a chance (again, ideal percentage would require testing) to penetrate shields altogether in addition to how they are now.

I tried for a long time to make them work, and I just couldn't. I'm a quantum guy now.

Archived Post 05-13-2011 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 360Frostt (Post 3528202)
Or have them, recharge as fast as Torps lower the Damage by half. And 100% shield penetration.
Would be similiar to the show then.

Your thinking of chroniton torpedoes, they bypass shields entirely, in Voyager, see the year of hell episode. Those weapons bypass shields.

Transphasics are anti-borg weapons, they pack the punch of a tricobalt and borg cant adapt to them like they do with most weapons. Not as easily anyway.

You should also note that Borg dont run around with the same shielding most races do, the initial shots from an enemy strike the ship, until they learn to adapt. See the first encounter with the Borg on TNG, in the episode Q Who, the phaser hits the Borg Cube and does a lot of damage, not striking a shield, until after they adapt. Same goes for ground weapons, they dont have any protection until they adapt.

Archived Post 05-13-2011 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlordthor (Post 3536678)
You should also note that Borg dont run around with the same shielding most races do, the initial shots from an enemy strike the ship, until they learn to adapt. See the first encounter with the Borg on TNG, in the episode Q Who, the phaser hits the Borg Cube and does a lot of damage, not striking a shield, until after they adapt. Same goes for ground weapons, they dont have any protection until they adapt.

Yeah, transphasic torpedoes were only used against the Borg in the show, and were designed specifically to counter their adaptation technology, so we have absolutely no idea how they would have effected anyone else.

In game, it could very well be implemented that Transphasics work like Tricobalts to the Borg, but work just like they do now to everyone else, and that would be completely consistent with the show.

I think they need to remain balanced to other torpedos. Let them do more damage to shielded ships, for those who want to use them for DPS, but less damage to bare hull. I believe that's the concept, it's just not currently implemented to match that.

Archived Post 05-14-2011 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blayyde
Yeah, transphasic torpedoes were only used against the Borg in the show, and were designed specifically to counter their adaptation technology, so we have absolutely no idea how they would have effected anyone else.

In game, it could very well be implemented that Transphasics work like Tricobalts to the Borg, but work just like they do now to everyone else, and that would be completely consistent with the show.

On thing to keep in mind though, about the show, is that Janeway took anti-borg tech from the future to the past. Which means it was something brand new to the Borg. And since it killed cubes, they didn't have nearly as much time to adapt. Which is much the same as how the Undine blew up borg cubes with ease. Odds are, had Picard been sick and turned command over to Worf in that TNG episode, that cube would have gone boom nicely too and the borg wouldn't have adapted as quickly.

And since Janeway's day of boomage, the Borg have had years to adapt to transphasic technology. Years in which they have assimilated other species, plus probably the occasional ship from Feds and other Alpha Quadrant races.

Borgs being weak to Transphasics doesn't make sense from a lore perspective. Borg aren't stupid, they'd have adapted.

Quote:

I think they need to remain balanced to other torpedos. Let them do more damage to shielded ships, for those who want to use them for DPS, but less damage to bare hull. I believe that's the concept, it's just not currently implemented to match that.
Yeah, this I agree with.

I think the problem is that the devs focused on the damage to hulls on shielded targets when they should have been looking at total damage, to both hull and shields on shielded targets. Right now, a quantum deals more damage to a shielded ship, between hull and shield damage, than even the rapid fire transphasic.

And that means unless you kill ships with shields still up, quantums are the superior torp, both against shielded and unshielded targets.

If the devs just raised the damage to the right balance point, so that quantums outdamage them on shieldless targets, but transphasics do more total damage on shielded ones, you'd strike just about the right balance point.

Archived Post 05-14-2011 05:48 PM

Not to mention the skill points you have to spend on transphasic vs photon quantum. 900 more points if fully maxed out. Really transphasic, plasma, chroniton, and tricobalts should be as good if not a little better than quantums and photons. That only makes sense. Right now they are all inferior. Don't even get me started with beam weapons.

Archived Post 05-17-2011 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JojoTheIndianCircusBoy
Not to mention the skill points you have to spend on transphasic vs photon quantum. 900 more points if fully maxed out. Really transphasic, plasma, chroniton, and tricobalts should be as good if not a little better than quantums and photons. That only makes sense. Right now they are all inferior. Don't even get me started with beam weapons.

Well, do keep in mind that the devs want quantums and photons to be more appealing to players. Lore says that is what should be used most of the time.

But, yeah, ignoring cost, they all need to be about equal. That way, people interested in saving points will use the cheap options, as fits the lore, and those that want to fit the lore will be rewarded with saving some skill points. Meanwhile, those after a particular effect will just pay the extra 900 or 1800 points, which really isn't that much. 900 points is 2 less ranks in T5 skills, for example, something you won't really even notice the difference of.


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