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-   -   Should i use a Crusier? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=218689)

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Should i use a Crusier?
 
Hi This is my first post so any constructiv critsim will be helpful

I am a LT 3 and i like the T2 Crusier and the other crusiers but i'm not rly sure if i should use that or the escort and i like those to. I'm a Tactical officer with:

Klingon Engineer: Engineering Team 1 2 points
Vulcan Science: Hazzard Emitters 1 2 points
(Don't have a Tactical yet though hoping to get Beam Overload)

i've played the demo on steam for 123 hours doing various reseach on many charcters to find the best char set.

My Stats are:
Starship command:9
Starship Engineering (i think) it's the one with increased power for ships that's:7
Assault combat?? (the one that increases ground combat damage) that's 1

i play as the guy who has lots of weapons and go sorta all out warfare. I think that sorta makes a crusier captain but i thought i'd ask the public. Feel free to correct me on anything

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

'All-out warfare'? That depends on what you mean by that: the cruisers are more for tanking (taking most of the heavy damage) and sustaining damage against the enemy in the meanwhile. escorts are much more fragile, but they deal more damage in alpha strikes (you come in fast, fire EVERYTHING, then get away and minimize your damage)

As for your skills, Engineering Team is a good hull heal for either one. Hazard Emitters is a good skill later in the game, when you have many enemies using debuffs on you, but for now, they are few and far between (and even then, they aren't too serious). If you're going for a cruiser, Beam Overload is the way to go (but if it's an escort, find the cannon weapons and abilitiles, as they work better with the escorts turn rate)

Starship Command is good for any ship, as it slightly increases their stats. The skill that increases starship power, that's Warp Core Training, which is also good. Assault Training does increase ground damage, but only on certain things (it lists ground grenades, rifles and assault weapons, as well as ranged combat abilities), so be careful what you have equipped

hope this all helps :)

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Thanks for that

Using the info you've given me, i think i will go crusier, massive, lots of weapon slots, heavy shields (i want to use covaient and i know about the lifetime taking of the regen). i like beam overload as i push all power to weapons, wait to 100. Me + Beam Overload + dual phaser banks = lot's of damage

Engineering team i found useful and has saved me a few times and mainly when i take on big ships.
Hazzard Emitters i found good as a top up on hull health. And on the Stranded in space mission to heal the SS. Azua.

I'm going to get the borg bridge officer so if anyone has had it or use one i would be intrested to find out more before i buy the C-Store coins.

Also does having the following ship weapon set up work in the later game assuming i just carry on with adding more??? I find this a decent set-up but i would go with a few photons

Fore
Dual Phaser Beam Array M2
Dual Phaser Beam Array M2

Aft
Phaser Beam Array M2

(The boring bits)

Shield Array standard
Impulse Engines standard
Deflector dish standard

Will post my away team stats and stuff when i get a chance

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCC-1543
Thanks for that

Using the info you've given me, i think i will go crusier, massive, lots of weapon slots, heavy shields (i want to use covaient and i know about the lifetime taking of the regen). i like beam overload as i push all power to weapons, wait to 100. Me + Beam Overload + dual phaser banks = lot's of damage

Engineering team i found useful and has saved me a few times and mainly when i take on big ships.
Hazzard Emitters i found good as a top up on hull health. And on the Stranded in space mission to heal the SS. Azua.

I'm going to get the borg bridge officer so if anyone has had it or use one i would be intrested to find out more before i buy the C-Store coins.

Also does having the following ship weapon set up work in the later game assuming i just carry on with adding more??? I find this a decent set-up but i would go with a few photons

Fore
Dual Phaser Beam Array M2
Dual Phaser Beam Array M2

Aft
Phaser Beam Array M2

(The boring bits)

Shield Array standard
Impulse Engines standard
Deflector dish standard

Will post my away team stats and stuff when i get a chance

If you wanna use Covariant Shields then I suggest you invest some points in obtaining EP2S for some instant shield heals. Sci Team also heals shields in a pinch though its true usefulness extends to cleaning off debuffs as well. And lets not forget RSF or RSP to increase your shield regen rate (the latter being the most useful if you've got more than two weak arcs).

In terms of the topic for using cruisers you need to prepare for their low turn rates and generally slower speed. You can temporarily buff this up with Evasive Maneuvers and A2ID (if I'm not mistaken) though the latter doesn't give as much of a turn rate boost.

As far as what cruisers to take, that's your call. The cruiser line has very few alternate options until you reach the endgame content and then its a matter of which cruiser fits your play style and skill set. :)

BTW Single Beam Arrays will give you more coverage than Dual Beams, the tradeoff is a lower damage output. The plus side is nearly nothing can get in your blind spots. Its a bland/boring weapon choice to use "Single Beam Arrays" but its effective.

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

when i get promoted to LT Commander i'l start to look into the skills that you have mentioned. With the single phaser array's i found even though the arc was decent the damage wasn't so i changed to the dual beams, as you would expect the damge shot up and the mobs shields just didn't have a hope in hell. i just made sure that i turned just before they did so i could carry on eating the shields.

I havn't tried the covaniant yet but the regen, resilant was terrible. The regen didn';t take the damage but the regen side of it........ made no difrence to the standard. The resiliant still useless (watch STOked Master Your Shields on youtube) i did these tests before i watched that vid but the resliant was quite like this:

mob damage (eg. 200 a poke in comparrsion to other damage points that have been given to me) + resliant shields = no shields (or in short getting killed)

Ground skills for my away team are:
Engineering: quick fix 1 1 point
Science: Medical tricorder????? (not sure it removes debuffs and heals around 60 hp

i'm also unsure about what energy weapon types i'm going to use but not going to use turrets i thought about one of every type of (one for a better word Element) such as anit-proton, phaser,disrupter etc

if anyone's got any sort of info on the borg bridge officer that would be helpful if you could post it or give me a link to a post about it

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

I found beam arrays to be more useful in general. They may be boring but the fact that I can broadside something and rip its shields to shreds was just as fun as using Dual Beam Banks to do the same from the front. Either way, you can use Fire At Will or Beam Overload to speed things up when you wanna punch through some tougher shields.

I've seen and regularly watch STOked, so I know about their little mathy explinations. What this comes down to is personal taste and practical application. Sometimes taste outweighs the math. Illogic > logic. XD

In shields I've also noticed these. It made shield choices that much simpler but at the same time everyone wants big beefy shields now. So lets get into things..

Regenerative Shields:
The weakest capacity in the game. While they can't take much abuse, they bounce back the fastest when left alone. These work for very maneuverable ships which can more easily spread the damage around all four quadrants. The downside is that to get the best possible regen rate you have to run your Shield settings very high, like 75 or even 100. STOked made this crystal clear.

Resilient Shields:
The middle of the road. They have an average capacity and regeneration. As an added bonus 5% of the damage your shields take is absorbed leaving only 5% to bleed through to your hull. While it sounds nice, this damage reduction isn't useful for long battles. Simply put, you get some more survivability but you don't want to take on large groups while using it. They're "okay", little more. You can get away with a Shield setting of 50 with these for base regen, though rinning high on shields was suggested for these.

Covariant Shields:
The mother of all shields. STOked put it best in the mosy brick to the face manner they could. Covariants give you an extremely large shield damage capacity at the cost of having the worst regeneration rate in the game. But they give you the best survivability in a drawn out fight and give the best protection against alpha strikes. And because the regeneration rate is so low, you don't even need to bother with running Shield power above 25 because it won't increase your regen rate that much. You will however need to carry shield heal skills to compensate for their slow regen as stated in my last post. Use of these skills will help keep your shields up unless you're really getting beat on by a large mob or a bad-$$ PvP player.

Now there's a best "shield" for each category. Some have a fallback.

For Regenerative:
Borg Regenerative Shield - Hands down the BEST one of its type in the game. It still suffers from the shortcomings of its type, but when used with 2 additional peices of its set, the shield can auto-heal itself which adds quite a bit of survivability.

For Resilient:
This seems to be the Breen shield (Dielectric Oscillation Resilient Shields). Okay I admit it has a littly bit higher cap than your typical Resilient shield plus it gives you a +30% protection against Polaron weapons as an added bonus. This protection only applies to shield damage, not hull. So if your shields are down, that bonus is useless. Yet at Vice Admiral it gives you more capacity than a Resilient Shield Mk XII. So its probably equal to a [Cap]x2.

For Covariant:
Aegis Covariant Shield. Hands down. While its not as powerful as a Covariant Shield [Cap]x3, its usefulness cannot be overstated. Just slap this bad boy on a ship with 1 other Aegis part and you've got yourself +defense (when moving). Equip the full set and your shields will suddenly "adapt" to incoming damage for stacking bonuses if its triggered often enough. But this damage resistance only applies to your hull (not shields unless Cryptic says otherwise), and given that what damage you get from bleedthrough should already be pretty low at that rank you need to equip it.. Well lets just say that you won't notice it and may feel let down.

For Covariant (2):
Reman Prototype Covariant Shields: These are always equivilent to a [Cap]x2 covariant shield you can buy for exploration badges. But this baby is FREE for completing a specific Reman mission and you can replay it every time you get promoted to a new rank to get a level-scaled version. Plus it makes your ship look just plain MEAN when its equipped. Unfortunately its a standalone shield and is not part of a set, but I've used this shield myself for a long time before I got my hands on Borg and Aegis parts. And I will admit that using Borg parts + Reman Shields gives a new meaning what STOked said about "evil green glowies". *snicker*

-----
Ground Skills... These depend on your play style. Do you want to Tank, or heal? If you wanna heal, use a support kit with Medical Generator. These little things will help heal you (a smidge) but they give Medical Diagnosis and with a science officer with healing skills on hand, you can go for quite a distance. If you wanna tank, there's ways to do that too like with Bunker Fabrication kits. I use one of those and I'm almost always spamming the phaser turret and shield generator.

Whatever method you wanna use, you should equip your ground team appropriately. Healing? multiple science officers. Tanking? Multiple engineers. DPS? Multiple tactical officers (with damage buffs) or engineers (with turrets/mortars)

-----
Weapon types:
The popular choices are Disruptor, Plasma, Antiproton, and maybe Polaron. I say maybe.. Polarons aren't that special IMO but some people like them.

Disruptors debuff the target's damage resistance so they take MORE damage in subsequent hits.

Plasmas can inflict a Plasma Fire DoT to eat their hull away reguardless of shields (can be purged).

I haven't worked with Antiprotons before so I can't tell you. The STO Wiki says they give you +2% Critical Rate and +40 Critical Severity

Polarons can reduce enemy system power by -25 to everything.

You really should pick a type that suits your wishes in the end and spec for that. Though you have to pick wisely. Some types cost more skill points to use seriously than others (Plasma is a major example).

-----
The Borg Bridge Officer is a reward for buying the deluxe edition of the game I believe. It should not be confused with the Borg Science Officer Canidate. The Borg Bridge Officer is an Engineer. I won't go into detail so I'll just give you a link.

http://www.stowiki.org/Borg_bridge_officer - There's a Federation version and a Klingon version. They both come with the exact same space and ground skills.

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Your analysis really does ignore the Mk X Cap x 3 shield. Which really only leads me to believe you have not ever equipped one. Which is rather common since the thing took a LOT of PVP grinding to acquire back in the day and then the level cap raise made it impossible to actually acquire for a good long time.

You should get someone who's used that shield to tell you how good it is and why people did that PVP grind for it in the first place. Especially in light of your advocacy of the Reman shield.

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superchum (Post 3563537)
Your analysis really does ignore the Mk X Cap x 3 shield. Which really only leads me to believe you have not ever equipped one. Which is rather common since the thing took a LOT of PVP grinding to acquire back in the day and then the level cap raise made it impossible to actually acquire for a good long time.

You should get someone who's used that shield to tell you how good it is and why people did that PVP grind for it in the first place. Especially in light of your advocacy of the Reman shield.

Couldn't care less, really. While it looks good on paper I'd really want a Mk II [Cap]x3 in the long run if those even existed. But I'm not a fan of PvP, especially the frustations that come with it. Between trying not to loose my temper at someone or grinding emblems, I'd take the latter. And I'd only use a [cap]x3 with a 3-peice Borg set anyway (if I ever get the deflector).

Maybe your reasons to advicate a pvp-grind shield can be placed in another thread. Or in a PM. As we're starting to drift a little bit now.

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethoir
Couldn't care less, really. While it looks good on paper I'd really want a Mk II [Cap]x3 in the long run if those even existed. But I'm not a fan of PvP, especially the frustations that come with it. Between trying not to loose my temper at someone or grinding emblems, I'd take the latter. And I'd only use a [cap]x3 with a 3-peice Borg set anyway (if I ever get the deflector).

Maybe your reasons to advicate a pvp-grind shield can be placed in another thread. Or in a PM. As we're starting to drift a little bit now.

Considering the content of your post is to advocate specific shields over other shields, I feel that the commentary is very much relevant to what you're saying. You purposely ignore a shield that you never equipped. And go on to advocate other shields as better than this one shield you do not have.

That's a faulty analysis. I think people reading your recommendations should take that into consideration. What's really telling is you move on to recommend the Reman shield. When the Cap 3 shield is point blank superior to it.

I guess what I will leave this discussion with is ... while your suggestions on what shield to equip "look good on paper" they don't exactly reflect the shields that are available and players should consider at least a second opinion before following said advice.

Archived Post 06-09-2011 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethoir
I found beam arrays to be more useful in general. They may be boring but the fact that I can broadside something and rip its shields to shreds was just as fun as using Dual Beam Banks to do the same from the front. Either way, you can use Fire At Will or Beam Overload to speed things up when you wanna punch through some tougher shields.

I've seen and regularly watch STOked, so I know about their little mathy explinations. What this comes down to is personal taste and practical application. Sometimes taste outweighs the math. Illogic > logic. XD

In shields I've also noticed these. It made shield choices that much simpler but at the same time everyone wants big beefy shields now. So lets get into things..

Regenerative Shields:
The weakest capacity in the game. While they can't take much abuse, they bounce back the fastest when left alone. These work for very maneuverable ships which can more easily spread the damage around all four quadrants. The downside is that to get the best possible regen rate you have to run your Shield settings very high, like 75 or even 100. STOked made this crystal clear.

Resilient Shields:
The middle of the road. They have an average capacity and regeneration. As an added bonus 5% of the damage your shields take is absorbed leaving only 5% to bleed through to your hull. While it sounds nice, this damage reduction isn't useful for long battles. Simply put, you get some more survivability but you don't want to take on large groups while using it. They're "okay", little more. You can get away with a Shield setting of 50 with these for base regen, though rinning high on shields was suggested for these.

Covariant Shields:
The mother of all shields. STOked put it best in the mosy brick to the face manner they could. Covariants give you an extremely large shield damage capacity at the cost of having the worst regeneration rate in the game. But they give you the best survivability in a drawn out fight and give the best protection against alpha strikes. And because the regeneration rate is so low, you don't even need to bother with running Shield power above 25 because it won't increase your regen rate that much. You will however need to carry shield heal skills to compensate for their slow regen as stated in my last post. Use of these skills will help keep your shields up unless you're really getting beat on by a large mob or a bad-$$ PvP player.

Now there's a best "shield" for each category. Some have a fallback.

For Regenerative:
Borg Regenerative Shield - Hands down the BEST one of its type in the game. It still suffers from the shortcomings of its type, but when used with 2 additional peices of its set, the shield can auto-heal itself which adds quite a bit of survivability.

For Resilient:
This seems to be the Breen shield (Dielectric Oscillation Resilient Shields). Okay I admit it has a littly bit higher cap than your typical Resilient shield plus it gives you a +30% protection against Polaron weapons as an added bonus. This protection only applies to shield damage, not hull. So if your shields are down, that bonus is useless. Yet at Vice Admiral it gives you more capacity than a Resilient Shield Mk XII. So its probably equal to a [Cap]x2.

For Covariant:
Aegis Covariant Shield. Hands down. While its not as powerful as a Covariant Shield [Cap]x3, its usefulness cannot be overstated. Just slap this bad boy on a ship with 1 other Aegis part and you've got yourself +defense (when moving). Equip the full set and your shields will suddenly "adapt" to incoming damage for stacking bonuses if its triggered often enough. But this damage resistance only applies to your hull (not shields unless Cryptic says otherwise), and given that what damage you get from bleedthrough should already be pretty low at that rank you need to equip it.. Well lets just say that you won't notice it and may feel let down.

For Covariant (2):
Reman Prototype Covariant Shields: These are always equivilent to a [Cap]x2 covariant shield you can buy for exploration badges. But this baby is FREE for completing a specific Reman mission and you can replay it every time you get promoted to a new rank to get a level-scaled version. Plus it makes your ship look just plain MEAN when its equipped. Unfortunately its a standalone shield and is not part of a set, but I've used this shield myself for a long time before I got my hands on Borg and Aegis parts. And I will admit that using Borg parts + Reman Shields gives a new meaning what STOked said about "evil green glowies". *snicker*

-----
Ground Skills... These depend on your play style. Do you want to Tank, or heal? If you wanna heal, use a support kit with Medical Generator. These little things will help heal you (a smidge) but they give Medical Diagnosis and with a science officer with healing skills on hand, you can go for quite a distance. If you wanna tank, there's ways to do that too like with Bunker Fabrication kits. I use one of those and I'm almost always spamming the phaser turret and shield generator.

Whatever method you wanna use, you should equip your ground team appropriately. Healing? multiple science officers. Tanking? Multiple engineers. DPS? Multiple tactical officers (with damage buffs) or engineers (with turrets/mortars)

-----
Weapon types:
The popular choices are Disruptor, Plasma, Antiproton, and maybe Polaron. I say maybe.. Polarons aren't that special IMO but some people like them.

Disruptors debuff the target's damage resistance so they take MORE damage in subsequent hits.

Plasmas can inflict a Plasma Fire DoT to eat their hull away reguardless of shields (can be purged).

I haven't worked with Antiprotons before so I can't tell you. The STO Wiki says they give you +2% Critical Rate and +40 Critical Severity

Polarons can reduce enemy system power by -25 to everything.

You really should pick a type that suits your wishes in the end and spec for that. Though you have to pick wisely. Some types cost more skill points to use seriously than others (Plasma is a major example).

-----
The Borg Bridge Officer is a reward for buying the deluxe edition of the game I believe. It should not be confused with the Borg Science Officer Canidate. The Borg Bridge Officer is an Engineer. I won't go into detail so I'll just give you a link.

http://www.stowiki.org/Borg_bridge_officer - There's a Federation version and a Klingon version. They both come with the exact same space and ground skills.



That's a lot of info for me to take in......so thanks for it .............. i'm going to assume that (capx2) = max shield health x2 so for shields what your saying is to look for the cov until i get the reman shield though i thought I saw in the STO patch notes that cryptic took something out or sommat about the reman stuff. ship weapons (a nice topic) from what STOked and you have said means to me i should do the following set up:

this is based on a T5 crusier
Fore:

Phaser (single/dual????)
Polaron (unsure what weapon types i.e single dual so going to have to look around....probs on the exchange and the R&D page)
Photon lauchers x2 (bye bye mob hull)

AFT:

Disruptor(same again Single/dual???)
Anti-Proton (might make an alt to test this as it may work on paper but in theroy i not sure)
Photon lauchers x2


Bridge crew:

as in i think my first post i mentioned about my crew

fire at will didn't work for me as i was doing eg. 300 phaser damage @ 4 mobs whereas i could be doing 300 at 1 mob and making sure he wasn't regening his shields

beam overload is a must for me push power to weapons, beam overload = mob in hell need i say more????


since the borg officer from the c-store is an engineer that kinda suits me fine some of the skills i'm not happy with so i'l change them but others i'l have to look at

my ground tatics is rather simple......to me anyaway kill them before they kill me and my away team so then my medical officer doesn't have to write up death tokens. and that sorta applies to me in space apart from that i'm a little bit more..... blood thirsy? like watching other ships blow up??? i'm starting to sound like a klingon.


i'l see if i can post an image of my away team for you to look at



I just been MATHED......


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