Star Trek Online

Star Trek Online (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/index.php)
-   Klingon Fleetyards (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=217)
-   -   Fixing the Enhanced Battle Cloak (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=224183)

Archived Post 07-15-2011 12:51 AM

Fixing the Enhanced Battle Cloak
 
It seems the fix to the Enhanced Battle Cloak is not easy. I can only guess why that is so, to be honest, so my fix is also only a guess on what could be faster.

Let's forget for a moment entirely how Enhanced Battle Cloak works.

Instead, let's take Battle Cloak. It has a 15 second cooldown after you decloak, but then you can use it at any time.

Why not create a version of Battle Cloak that has only a 2-3 second cooldown after decloak? And then we call that "Enhanced Battle CLoak" and put it on the B'rel.

The play dynamic would be very different from what we have now, to be sure - you wouldn't be able to just fire a torp or a power at cloak - you need to conciously cloak, use all abilities you want to use, and then cloak again. It will require some more micro-management, essentially, but in exchange the issues of Enhanced Battle Cloak as it is now are gone. As a "drawback" it won't feel like the original version of cloak as people wouldn't just fire torps when decloaking, they could use everything.

Why it might be easier than fixing Enhanced Battle Cloak: It's basically just replacing one number for a cooldown for another. It doesn't require thinking and changing the interaction with dozens of powers and weapons.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3644786)
Why not create a version of Battle Cloak that has only a 2-3 second cooldown after decloak? And then we call that "Enhanced Battle CLoak" and put it on the B'rel.

Just curious, but why should a klingon want to run even faster from a battle.

Seriously, i think that whole concept of battlecloak is not very appropriate for the klingon faction (game play wise).
I know in canon they where able to cloak in battle under certain circumstances.
But since STO is a game, i think that the game mechanic should encourage KDF players to fight more like (honorable) klingons are supposed to and not like some Romulan Pahtak (no offense rommy fans :o)

I am fine with having them normal cloak, but instead of being able to run away from a battle, klingon players should be encouraged to fight to the death.
(I think it would suit much better to klingons than constantly runnning away.)
So instead of giving them a even better opportunity to flee from battle they should rather get a permanent "go down fighting" power, just passive so they do more damage the closer death comes.

Another thing is IF a romulan faction gets introduced, they surely will have Battlecloak on some of their ships too, how will a battle between those two ships look like?
Will they ever decloak, will there ever be a winner?
Will it become a run away fest?
Will there be a difference between them at all, except for their looks?


Live long and prosper.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 04:05 AM

Cloak is foremost a tactical advantage, not a mean to escape battle. WHY would any klingon want to throw away that ? The greatest honor is in victory !

Archived Post 07-15-2011 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalnar
Cloak is foremost a tactical advantage, not a mean to escape battle. WHY would any klingon want to throw away that ? The greatest honor is in victory !

The point is not just to win a battle, but to win with honor.
Jam haddar can win battles too, they don't care for honor, klingons (should) do.
Game mechanics should urge players to play less like jem haddar (or duras ;) ).
Just my opinion.

Live long and prosper.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3644786)
Why not create a version of Battle Cloak that has only a 2-3 second cooldown after decloak? And then we call that "Enhanced Battle CLoak" and put it on the B'rel.

A 2-3 second cooldown on the advanced cloak. That would basically turn the cloak into a near instant 'reset button' for any alpha strike or fight gone wrong. No, I think this would be the wrong way to go to correct the battle cloak issues.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yreodred
The point is not just to win a battle, but to win with honor.
Jam haddar can win battles too, they don't care for honor, klingons (should) do.
Game mechanics should urge players to play less like jem haddar (or duras ;) ).
Just my opinion.

Live long and prosper.

The whole honour concept is not so black and white. It is rather shades of gray. And as Gowron once said: history is writtne by the victors!. Honour is therefore satisfied.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trygvar (Post 3644971)
The whole honour concept is not so black and white. It is rather shades of gray. And as Gowron once said: history is writtne by the victors!. Honour is therefore satisfied.

We all know that Gowron was know for his honorable deeds. ;)

Well then there is obviously no big difference between the Jem'Hadar and the klingons.
(Except for their motives, and the fact that the Jem'hadar are honest enough not to hide behind that honor thing)

I was thinking that the Klingon honor does forbit to attack those who cannot defend themselves.
(DS9: Rules of Engagement)

Having such a powerful tool, like a battlecloak makes nearly all enemies defenseless against them.
So wouldn't it be dishonorable to attack them if there is no danger involved at all?


Live long and prosper.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 06:23 AM

Since many Federation ship tend to survive a battle-cloaking alpha strike, it seems they are after all not defense against it.

Just because you lost doesn't mean you were defenseless.
A defenseless person is someone that cannot mount a defense. Unarmed, unskilled in combat, and posing no threat.

But that hardly describes any Starfleet vessels, which in STO kill thousands of NPC ships, and also tend to kill other PvP players.

If you unequip all shields and weapons and call out: "I am unarmed and will not fight", and a Klingon still battlecloaks, shockwaves and kills you, then you might argue that was dishonorable.

But hey, as you said:
Quote:

We all know that Gowron was know for his honorable deeds
This man was Chancellor, leader of the Klingon Empire. If he seems dishonorable to you, why do you assume that every Klingon actually is honorable. Why do you assume someone is even playing a honorable Klingon?And not just one that does what is necessary to advance in the Klingon Empire?

And it doesn't change the fact that Klingons have been using Cloak for a long time, and your "cowardly" Enhanced Battle Cloak Bird of Prey was invented and used by a high-ranking Klingon. Worf - arguably one of the most honorable examples - had no issues using Cloak, stealth or hit & run tactics.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3645058)
Since many Federation ship tend to survive a battle-cloaking alpha strike, it seems they are after all not defense against it.

Just because you lost doesn't mean you were defenseless.
A defenseless person is someone that cannot mount a defense. Unarmed, unskilled in combat, and posing no threat.

It depends on what weapon systems you want to compare.
A medieval knight may be a fighting machine at his time, but against a modern soldier, he IS defensless.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3645058)
But that hardly describes any Starfleet vessels, which in STO kill thousands of NPC ships, and also tend to kill other PvP players.

If you unequip all shields and weapons and call out: "I am unarmed and will not fight", and a Klingon still battlecloaks, shockwaves and kills you, then you might argue that was dishonorable.

If the tactical advantage is big enough, it doesn't make any difference.
When getting alpha striked by 3 or 5 Birds of Prey, it doesn't matter if your ship has shields and weapons equipped or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3645058)
This man was Chancellor, leader of the Klingon Empire. If he seems dishonorable to you, why do you assume that every Klingon actually is honorable. Why do you assume someone is even playing a honorable Klingon?And not just one that does what is necessary to advance in the Klingon Empire?

Just because someone is leader of the high council doesn't mean that he is the most honorable klingon.
Why do i assume that klingons are honorable?
I don't know, maybe because they talk all the time about it, because their whole culture is aligned torwards honorful behaviour?
I know myself than some klingons are not honorable, but most of them are (i hope).

If i would play a klingon i would try to play honorful, just because that's the whole point of being klingon, don't you think?

Why do so many players play dishonorful Klingons?
Just because they have the means to do it and many people tend to interpret things (like klingon honor) to suit their requirements.
(Thats why i am against giving them Battlecloak, it should be reserved to the romulans)



Quote:

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully (Post 3645058)
And it doesn't change the fact that Klingons have been using Cloak for a long time, and your "cowardly" Enhanced Battle Cloak Bird of Prey was invented and used by a high-ranking Klingon. Worf - arguably one of the most honorable examples - had no issues using Cloak, stealth or hit & run tactics.

Worf was a bit irritated, when he first saw the defiant cloak and he should have protested against it because the treaty of algeron (he didn't know that the cloak was a gift form the romulans).
Hit&Run tactics, when did he used it?


I think the whole Klingon honor code is just a big lie, to make them feel better.
If they prefer not to use it then they should be honest enough to to say so.

I just think that fighting honorable has something to do with fairness.
Maybe i would be just a bad klingon. :cool:


Live long and prosper.

Archived Post 07-15-2011 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trygvar (Post 3644971)
The whole honour concept is not so black and white. It is rather shades of gray. And as Gowron once said: history is writtne by the victors!. Honour is therefore satisfied.

Or: There is nothing more honorable than victory.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:41 PM.