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-   -   Fix the Guramba Siege mode (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=227873)

Archived Post 08-11-2011 03:21 PM

Fix the Guramba Siege mode
 
Since alot of other ships are getting fix lets look at the Guramba.

The Guramba dynamic work perfectly, Siege mode works as it name state as a siege dynamic.

When Javalin was implemented it was 1/3 more powerful than phase lance on the galaxy X.
Both ships were consider gimp by testers and players, compared to other ships its level it did not meet the standard.

The Galaxy X was buff with an extra weapon slot and boosted phaser lance to javelin potency.

No such buffs were ever given to the Guramba destroyer after its fed counter part was buff into line with other ships.

Repeated testers during beta of this ship requested over and over again to drop the -50% turn rate in siege mode. I myself did not like this suggestion, the word siege mode fit the lower turn rate, why not instead buff Siege mode with a extra shield regeneration rate. Giving the player, the option to fight like a tanky/escort with bad maneuverability or a normal escort with maneuverability.

Lets look at siege mode +10 weapon , + 5 shield, -50% turn rate, minor energy drain on opponent.

We sacrifice a engineering console for this, why when we already sacrifice a -50% turn rate when entering Siege mode.

My proposal

Siege mode, +10 weapon, +5 shields,-50% turn rate, Minor energy drain on opponent, + 22% regeneration rate on shields.

It would take 5 + turn rate console to get +50% turn rate,

If you count the -1 engineering console the guramba already has, + this -50% disadvantage .
You just gimp your self -6 engineering console by entering siege mode.

Now lets add the advantages
+10 weapons power is 1.8 consoles, +5 shield is .8 consoles, so stander siege mode has a buff of about 2.6 console which is overcome by the -6 already in place from the gimps to siege mode.

If we add 22% regeneration to this which is the equivalent of 2 regeneration consoles, we get +4.6 -6= -1.4 consoles, still a little gimp but much on the same line with other ships with javelin to compensate.

There is no need to state Javelin draw back, but if a reminder is need i will state it; While firing Javelin all other weapon stop = a neutral effect, the loss of dps from weapons is compensated by javelin but no real gain is occurred.

This ship might not get the attention so much because of its numbers but if people are will to shell out $25 let at least make it equal to other ships. I only use this ship to gimp myself because my raptor is easy mode. Plus it looks menacing .

Archived Post 08-15-2011 10:15 AM

Does transforming still break tractor beams?

Archived Post 08-16-2011 11:23 AM

Your numbers are suspicious but I appreciate the sentiment. In your calculations you count a -50% turn radius as the loss of 5 consoles, fair enough, but if used strategically siege mode is a tool you'd implement against larger, heavier and yes, slower ships where the loss of turn radius is a happy sacrifice for a Beam Overload with an extra punch. So sure, it's really more akin to removing the 5 consoles you don't need in favor of gaining the ability that you do.

But still, if they want to buff siege mode, I am all for it. I'd be happy with a shield buff, or a turn radius buff, or even the ability to continue firing my weapons during the javelin shot. I think your suggestion might be a bit much.

Archived Post 08-18-2011 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHale (Post 3700839)
Does transforming still break tractor beams?

No but when ur tractor its very bad to be in siege mode with -10 engine power while in siege mode and -50% turn rate makes really a sitty duck. You only see me leave seige mode to drop omega and break free and leave a fight do a fast 20km loop to come around and return while in sige mode.

Archived Post 08-18-2011 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermbot (Post 3702969)
Your numbers are suspicious but I appreciate the sentiment. In your calculations you count a -50% turn radius as the loss of 5 consoles, fair enough, but if used strategically siege mode is a tool you'd implement against larger, heavier and yes, slower ships where the loss of turn radius is a happy sacrifice for a Beam Overload with an extra punch. So sure, it's really more akin to removing the 5 consoles you don't need in favor of gaining the ability that you do.

But still, if they want to buff siege mode, I am all for it. I'd be happy with a shield buff, or a turn radius buff, or even the ability to continue firing my weapons during the javelin shot. I think your suggestion might be a bit much.

I mean my numbers are not accurate 100% but if you bring up the beta threads and all the feedback the community, posted at the start of this ship , it was excepted as gimped only because the Galaxy X was just as gimp at that time.

It just need a buff some where that make it worth while to be in siege mode, I only do it because I found a small nitch the Guramba can do good ( not great) which is sustained DPS in siege mode. Which the only capt that can use a grumba effectively is a Engineering captain, because u are the most targeted ship on the kdf side. In very rare situation u get to fly with another grumba and Ive only flown with another grumba that was pretty good enough to 2 x javelin people.

I give u hint how to make a better ship out of your current Guramba

Drop Beam overload for BFAW it does not share CD with javelin.
BFAw will also if timed very well a javelin will go and so willl your beams at the same time enough to take out the rest of his shields to get a javelin on bare hull.

If your fighting a someone in arena that there loosing shields do to a allies , drop APO+tact team+EPW and a javelin u will get a 25-45k hit. (very rare ) very hard to do, and only if it hits bare hull. Anything else will be a waste on a shielded opponent and just rip off facing shield and deliver a 9k hull hit if they have no Resistance buffs.

A avrge hit I get is between 12k and 18k, and will only fire on escort below 50% and cruisers below 35% but most of all they have to have facing shield down.

There is a 50% miss ratio to this javelin as well so most people who play pvp in this ship dont even use the javalin because for dps wise its not worth it a fully open up BFAW3 will do more damage in seige mode than a javelin will do, but it does but it still help for that extra burst sometime a couple sec they can get healed back to full health.

I run , 4 =2 dis/2 anti P duel beams up front and 3 single in the back

Maybe what they should do is up the over all turn rate to a bop turn rate which will give the ship a better turn rate in siege mode. Also giving the player the choice between a very agile ship and a slow turning ship.

Another thing why is a fully spec Raptor have 42k hull and I only have 40.8?

Archived Post 08-18-2011 04:28 PM

I think the -50% turn rate is a bit excessive, a lower (30%) would be more appropriate in my opinion. My consideration for this is that the Siege Javelin does not fire immediately. Its charging plus the fact that there is a 'pause' between firing, and the death star animation. Leading to your target zooming away, getting their shield facing up, all sorts of things the Gal-X doesn't have to deal with in its "Spare Beam Overload". Also there is a bug with the Javelin that needs to be fixed, in that from time to time you'll hit a target and do 0 damage, because the game is trying to register it as physical damage instead of disruptor. I've had this happen to me a few times when a target had their shield facing down, the lance hits, and they take no damage.

Archived Post 08-18-2011 05:46 PM

Shield Regen is ok but the Shield power boost already offers greater shield regen and resistance. The added weapons power is also rather helpful. What I would suggest is one of three things:

1) Make the Javelin more powerful. I mean you have to charge it up, be in Siege mode, Manage to hit with it (and it fires slowly), and you have no Cloak compared to the Galaxy X. It should be the more powerful weapon between those two.

or

2) Make the power drain more intense BUT only have it drain power while the Javelin is charging. Once it is charged then the drain stops. This could be nasty because if you syphon off a solid amount of energy even if for a few seconds you weaken the enemy's shield resistance and regeneration, their speed of movement (making them a better target once you are charged), and the damage they are dealing to you.

or

3) Make the Shield power Boost +10 to make up for the horrid Turn Rate. You could even knock 5 points off of Aux in this mode to help compensate making the ship focus harder on just tanking and firing flat out.

Archived Post 08-18-2011 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alastor_Forthright (Post 3706557)
I think the -50% turn rate is a bit excessive, a lower (30%) would be more appropriate in my opinion. My consideration for this is that the Siege Javelin does not fire immediately. Its charging plus the fact that there is a 'pause' between firing, and the death star animation. Leading to your target zooming away, getting their shield facing up, all sorts of things the Gal-X doesn't have to deal with in its "Spare Beam Overload". Also there is a bug with the Javelin that needs to be fixed, in that from time to time you'll hit a target and do 0 damage, because the game is trying to register it as physical damage instead of disruptor. I've had this happen to me a few times when a target had their shield facing down, the lance hits, and they take no damage.

Really?, I always took it as a miss. I never read the logs to see this. It would mean alot because 50% of the time I miss and i have accurate trait, this explains alot.

Archived Post 08-18-2011 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinkuu_Akagan
Shield Regen is ok but the Shield power boost already offers greater shield regen and resistance. The added weapons power is also rather helpful. What I would suggest is one of three things:

1) Make the Javelin more powerful. I mean you have to charge it up, be in Siege mode, Manage to hit with it (and it fires slowly), and you have no Cloak compared to the Galaxy X. It should be the more powerful weapon between those two.

or

2) Make the power drain more intense BUT only have it drain power while the Javelin is charging. Once it is charged then the drain stops. This could be nasty because if you syphon off a solid amount of energy even if for a few seconds you weaken the enemy's shield resistance and regeneration, their speed of movement (making them a better target once you are charged), and the damage they are dealing to you.

or

3) Make the Shield power Boost +10 to make up for the horrid Turn Rate. You could even knock 5 points off of Aux in this mode to help compensate making the ship focus harder on just tanking and firing flat out.

1 =I agree 100%, It was started at 1/3 more powerful than the Galaxy X before the buff, Why is it now the same as the X. Really? only 3 people in the whole dam game know how to add the buffs to it, because once started the buffs u cant activate. To be plain and simple the devs should just allow javalin to fire while weapon fire, but thats to easy, so I like extra reg , goin into.
3) I think +15 shield and +10 weapon power would be great with the -50% turn rate makes me feel like I'am sieging someone , which is how I play =)

to number 2 ,Right now, the drain is very small, I use to run polarons and disruptor, when BFAW was the big thing , to drain wpn power it was never really effective against any other players system. I also had tyk rift going, drain is -1 power for every hit, even with BFAW it still wasnt fast enough to do seriouse drain against a opponent that ran at least one eps console. What ever the case drain should not be the nitch for Siege mode it dosent fit the ship well in the first place, and if u up it it become op and another nitch build.

Nitch builds arnt fun because they get boring doing the same move over and over again.

It just needs a small buff somewhere !!

Archived Post 08-19-2011 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronScarlet
I mean my numbers are not accurate 100% but if you bring up the beta threads and all the feedback the community, posted at the start of this ship , it was excepted as gimped only because the Galaxy X was just as gimp at that time.

It just need a buff some where that make it worth while to be in siege mode, I only do it because I found a small nitch the Guramba can do good ( not great) which is sustained DPS in siege mode. Which the only capt that can use a grumba effectively is a Engineering captain, because u are the most targeted ship on the kdf side. In very rare situation u get to fly with another grumba and Ive only flown with another grumba that was pretty good enough to 2 x javelin people.

I give u hint how to make a better ship out of your current Guramba

Drop Beam overload for BFAW it does not share CD with javelin.
BFAw will also if timed very well a javelin will go and so willl your beams at the same time enough to take out the rest of his shields to get a javelin on bare hull.

If your fighting a someone in arena that there loosing shields do to a allies , drop APO+tact team+EPW and a javelin u will get a 25-45k hit. (very rare ) very hard to do, and only if it hits bare hull. Anything else will be a waste on a shielded opponent and just rip off facing shield and deliver a 9k hull hit if they have no Resistance buffs.

A avrge hit I get is between 12k and 18k, and will only fire on escort below 50% and cruisers below 35% but most of all they have to have facing shield down.

There is a 50% miss ratio to this javelin as well so most people who play pvp in this ship dont even use the javalin because for dps wise its not worth it a fully open up BFAW3 will do more damage in seige mode than a javelin will do, but it does but it still help for that extra burst sometime a couple sec they can get healed back to full health.

I run , 4 =2 dis/2 anti P duel beams up front and 3 single in the back

Maybe what they should do is up the over all turn rate to a bop turn rate which will give the ship a better turn rate in siege mode. Also giving the player the choice between a very agile ship and a slow turning ship.

Another thing why is a fully spec Raptor have 42k hull and I only have 40.8?

Hmm, interesting. I've been avoiding BFAW because I heard it was, well, not broken but there was an exploit that caused it to do massively too much single target damage. Do you know if they fixed it, I'd rather fly a sub-optimal build than be an exploiter. But on the other hand I picked up the siege destroyer originally with the intent of flying it tentacles out in siege mode as much as possible, that I've had to start flying it like a standard escort has been a disappointment.

Do you suggest a DBBx3, 1 torp launcher load up front?

Anyway, back on topic. Maybe they could find a way to adjust the siege mode so that, in addition to draining weapon energy it steals shield energy aswell. That adds to the "siege" feel and would give the kind of defensive buff you're looking for all while staying very much in theme with the ships current abilities. Ofcourse this amounts to both a defensive buff and an offensive debuff with team capability so it would be trickier to balance.


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