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-   -   Venture Variant + Galaxy Class .... lets talk about that *rear end* (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=230460)

Archived Post 09-03-2011 04:06 PM

Venture Variant + Galaxy Class .... lets talk about that *rear end*
 
This is a request to change and rework the Skeleton of the Galaxy Class (including the new Venture variant and the other old versions)

the request is simple

turn [Hull] + [Pylons] into ONE drop down menu,
FIX the geometry so that the parts look as if they would be ONE PART.

do not let us screw around with these 2 parts any longer, it is not needed and makes the ships look worse.


In this specific case LESS IS MORE!


canon reasons:
just look at the Enterprise D,
those are NOT 2 parts, its made of one solid piece,
there is no cut, nothing to swap out, nothing that implies that anybody would have glued these parts together or would ever touch them in a Refit or Kitbash.

http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/ypym...701d_wall2.jpg

ONE SOLID SMOOTH PIECE!
http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/skn1..._teska_r02.jpg


STO reason:
it just does not fit together with any of the other parts, no matter what you try... the results are BEYOND UGLY
the geometry parts are either to low, or to high on the Z axis, they never line up in a good way.
the textures do not fit together either,
shadows are thrown oddly at one part but not the other (ok that one is rare and many wont ever notice, but it happens)
...

the worst thing is, they don't even fit together properly in the DEFAULT combination!

http://s7.directupload.net/images/110904/bchr3tma.jpg


you guys even painted a black outline on the round shape of the new Venture Variant !?
is this an example of the Bug that has become a Feature?

there is not supposed to be a visible shape in the first place,

This is really the only thing i totally HATE about the new Variant.

The new C-Store Ship should be reason enough to fix up the old Ships, if not... all hands abandon Ship!

Archived Post 09-03-2011 04:42 PM

I disagree completely, and cannot support any idea that strips what creativity we have. Combining these two parts into a single piece is wholly unnecessary and only of any benefit to those with serious Trek OCD.

EDIT: I would, however, support a cosmetic pass to further minimize the seam present on the purebred Galaxy model, if this would suffice for you and those of like mind.

Archived Post 09-03-2011 05:23 PM

Having not used a Galaxy-class before I was noticing these discrepancies today, too.

Bear in mind the Envoy and Celestial haven't had near as much Art Dept attention as the Galaxy itself has had. Both could use some CaptLogan love. Their saucers look unfinished on the bottom to my eye. No sensor arrays at all. Which I suspect won't be seen to until the Art Department is expanded.

Anyway, I have to agree with Jexsam on this. As long as the components can be made to appear more seamless, that would solve the obvious breaks between Hull and Strut for all four combinations. That would include a pass over how the patterns make the seams too obvious as well. IMO, that would benefit them more than just merging the components.

Archived Post 09-03-2011 05:51 PM

Well i just don't think it's possible to make it look perfect as long as it's 2 parts, for technical reasons.
And i wouldn't mind a bit less kitbashing (especially with those uuuugly parts) if it helps to make the original Galaxy Class look screen accurate.


proof me wrong, fix it without that change and i'll shut up, but thats the solution i see.

Archived Post 09-03-2011 06:06 PM

Oh, you wouldn't mind less kitbashing, especially with variant you find ugly, so it should be fixed.

Well, I love the ability to kitbash, especially since I like at least two of the current variants (including the Venture), therefore it shouldn't be fixed.

If a minimizing cosmetic pass isn't enough to cause you to compromise, then I'm afraid I have to say, "Deal with it."

Archived Post 09-03-2011 07:25 PM

You make a good point for the Galaxy class. From the series we know that seam should not be visible. However we can not extend that point to all the other variants. For all we know the Venture class could have that seam as part of the class design (ie it would even be visible in general artwork that is not be limited by the game engine).

I think it would be wonderful if they could hide the seam between the default Galaxy class hull and pylons. However only if it does not remove the option to mix and match pieces. In the end this is a game, and we must make some concessions because of that. If the seam can not be removed without removing the ability to mix pylons and hull, then its is something we may just have to live with. A slight seam being visible on the default Galaxy class is a minor one to make in order to allow us the freedom to mix and match.

I agree with you that most of the Galaxy class mixes look bad. But I also have friends who absolutely love the part combinations they use on that ship. (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Archived Post 09-03-2011 07:35 PM

I brought this up to a friend of mine who put forward an interesting suggestion that should appease both sides of this.

He suggest that it might be possible to wire the game to swap out the pylons and secondary hull for a unified, proper model when it detects the player has both of those Galaxy-class options selected. Kitbash power is kept, but a whole, seamless model is in place for the purists.

Archived Post 09-03-2011 09:26 PM

You do realize that in the current trek timeline (2409) that the Galaxy class has been around for 40+ years? 12 frames for the ship were built when the Enterprise D was commissioned, obviously more were built. Starfleet engineers could have found ways to improve the overall design. From First Contact to Nemisis Enterprise E was upgraded several times, new torpedo launchers and additional decks were added.

Archived Post 09-03-2011 09:36 PM

Good point on the Venture. The default (Andromeda) Pattern for the Venture's Hull may very well exploit along certain lines on purpose. Let the default (Andromeda) Pattern continue to do this. But another Pattern might prove softer and less obvious when used otherwise. In that way, customizations are there for both tastes.

Seems to me that for Galaxy, Envoy, Celestial and Venture are either variants or they're not. If they are? The aft edges of all Hull sections should display consistent edge in thickness. And so should the Struts in their placement to be flush where components meet along the bottom facing. Bring the Strut placement down. Then adjust the top of the Hulls as needed.

Archived Post 09-04-2011 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jexsam (Post 3736045)
swap out the pylons and secondary hull for a unified, proper model when it detects the player has both of those Galaxy-class options selected. Kitbash power is kept, but a whole, seamless model is in place for the purists.

i'd be endlessly happy if a function like that existed, but i don't think that Cryptic is going to waste the needed Dev Time on a function like that. Not on a Ship they consider "finished".

Also it would double the time Logan would have to spend on any updates / fixes / changes / additions to the parts in question, because he would have to do it on 2 Models, everytime in the future something is touched. (add the Galaxy-X and it's 3 times ;P)
good for us, bad for them?



OK, so we displayed the Problem, we have 3 possible solutions to it, i am sure the Dev's can decide for themselves which one is the best, or even come up with a better one that we can't think of because we don't realy know the Tech behind the game.

But i think we can all agree that this Situation should be addressed one way or the other, and that the Galaxy and it's Variants need some touching up anyway because the Quality is obviously below game-standard here (not including the Venture of course, that one just shows how much less love went into the other models ;P ).


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