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-   -   Cryptic's Dystopian Future (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=235158)

Archived Post 10-08-2011 10:51 AM

Cryptic's Dystopian Future
 
Title says it all, Cryptic's plans convert the Utopian future envisioned by Gene Roddenberry and turn it upside-down into an Orwellian view of the Star Trek universe. All choices are made for you, you must work constantly just to keep the status quo, you must pay the state (Cryptic) for anything that might make life a bit more comfortable.

I sincerely hope that CBS is not aware of this dystopian vision for their IP, if they are, then they should be ashamed of themselves. There is a difference between profit and profiteering that Cryptic either ignores or is ignorant of and I suspect Roddenberry would be spinning in his grave were he aware of it.

The quotes from Trek about the future finances of the Federation have already been posted all over these forums so I am not going to bother to reiterate them here, but this vision is not Star Trek, it is Animal farm where some are more equal than others.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 11:06 AM

What? Homeskillet, come back down here for a minute. You're floating a little to high. It's making me nervous.

We're not actually in 2409. it's still 2011, and STO is just a game. A product.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grox (Post 3798600)
What? Homeskillet, come back down here for a minute. You're floating a little to high. It's making me nervous.

We're not actually in 2409. it's still 2011, and STO is just a game. A product.

I lol'd :)

Archived Post 10-08-2011 11:31 AM

He has a point though; it's not really "trek" or even "star" in any way shape or form. It would serve a better purpose for it to be considered NON-CANON, lose it's license from CBS and change the names to match.

This goes / does defeat the whole ethos of the Star Trek IP on the tribble server. And just to point out I'm not really a Trekkie or a Trekker. Always been more of a Star Wars man myself. :D

Archived Post 10-08-2011 12:21 PM

STO has never actually felt like Star Trek. In my opinion, Cryptic has constantly missed the ethos of Star Trek. Star Trek has always been a television show followed by comic books and novels. It is actually tricky to get the ethos to fit within traditional MMO gameplay.

Unfortunately, what makes for a good episode of Star Trek doesn't generally make for a good MMO quest.

Most Star Trek episodes (at least TOS and TNG era ones) have some sort of moral or ethical problem or dilemma they explore. The fun is in watching the characters resolve the dilemma and remain true (or not) to the Starfleet ethos.

Cryptic doesn't have branching dialog that allows players to make choices in missions. Like a typical MMO they have one path to complete each quest, and given that MMO players are supposed to be a part of the story, that leads to a rather unsatisfying resolution at the end of each quest.

Without an understanding of the importance of choice and internal conflict, it's going to be hard for Cryptic to ever make this game feel like Star Trek.

The Foundry has helped, because there are players who definitely get the Star Trek ethos and do their best to translate that to an MMO quest.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heimskringla (Post 3798735)
STO has never actually felt like Star Trek. In my opinion, Cryptic has constantly missed the ethos of Star Trek. Star Trek has always been a television show followed by comic books and novels. It is actually tricky to get the ethos to fit within traditional MMO gameplay.

Unfortunately, what makes for a good episode of Star Trek doesn't generally make for a good MMO quest.

Most Star Trek episodes (at least TOS and TNG era ones) have some sort of moral or ethical problem or dilemma they explore. The fun is in watching the characters resolve the dilemma and remain true (or not) to the Starfleet ethos.

Cryptic doesn't have branching dialog that allows players to make choices in missions. Like a typical MMO they have one path to complete each quest, and given that MMO players are supposed to be a part of the story, that leads to a rather unsatisfying resolution at the end of each quest.

Without an understanding of the importance of choice and internal conflict, it's going to be hard for Cryptic to ever make this game feel like Star Trek.

The Foundry has helped, because there are players who definitely get the Star Trek ethos and do their best to translate that to an MMO quest.

I agree to a point but now all that is left is a thin veneer of cheap Star Trek kitch over a Ferengi love story which I personally, find quite sad and pathetic.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethanatos (Post 3798569)
Title says it all, Cryptic's plans convert the Utopian future envisioned by Gene Roddenberry and turn it upside-down into an Orwellian view of the Star Trek universe. All choices are made for you, you must work constantly just to keep the status quo, you must pay the state (Cryptic) for anything that might make life a bit more comfortable.

I sincerely hope that CBS is not aware of this dystopian vision for their IP, if they are, then they should be ashamed of themselves. There is a difference between profit and profiteering that Cryptic either ignores or is ignorant of and I suspect Roddenberry would be spinning in his grave were he aware of it.

The quotes from Trek about the future finances of the Federation have already been posted all over these forums so I am not going to bother to reiterate them here, but this vision is not Star Trek, it is Animal farm where some are more equal than others.

This made me laugh. Why? Because it's utter non-sense. Considering we are barely a week into testing this new build and Steven Dangelo stated in another thread the made a mistake on the prices and will change it it's way to early for this kind of nonsense. I leveled to captain so far and don't feel like "I've workd just to keep the status quo" or whatever nonsense you are talking about. You can buy white goods for EC,,, which there is plenty of in this game. You can get decent stuff from mission rewards and you still get drops. To be honest I have no idea what you are evening talking about.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
This made me laugh. Why? Because it's utter non-sense. Considering we are barely a week into testing this new build and Steven Dangelo stated in another thread the made a mistake on the prices and will change it it's way to early for this kind of nonsense. I leveled to captain so far and don't feel like "I've workd just to keep the status quo" or whatever nonsense you are talking about. You can buy white goods for EC,,, which there is plenty of in this game. You can get decent stuff from mission rewards and you still get drops. To be honest I have no idea what you are evening talking about.

None of which makes any difference in the definitions of utopia and dystopia, if you understand what those are, you understand what I mean, if you don't then mocking is rather foolish. That STO is becoming a dystopic view of Star Trek's milieu is not nonsense, it is a direction the game is taking in Tribble's current incarnation.

Mr Dangelo has stated that he is watching the "silent majority" with the implication that he is not watching the more vocal members of this community, all of which leads inexorably to a dystopic future for STO.

Lack of choice - The missions on tribble can ONLY be played in a very specific order, varying from that path is not only frowned upon, it is now mechanically impossible.

Dilithium vs Cpoints vs EC - this monitary system provides fewer choices for those that do not wish to spend their entire lives grinding and the prices in dilithium are astonishing. I understand that Mr DAngelo is examining those prices but Cryptic has a long history of dissimulation and manipulation. The Cstore also creates an atmosphere where some are more equal than others.

As an example of my last statement, let me say that I have just about every ship and item on the current CStore, I won't have to grind to buy ships at VA, I just go fetch the ones I already purchased. I will however, need to grind my *** off to achieve decent purple equipment that is not otherwise available besides dilithium purchases. The fact that I don't need to spend 200,000DIL on a new ship gives me an instant (and massive) head start in PvP should I choose to exercise it.

If the difference between utopia and dystopia is an issue, Star Trek is an example of the utopian genre where poverty in the Federation is gone, nobody has to go hungry and humanity can spend its time and energy improving itself intellectually and collectively. A dystopian example would be George Orwell's 1984, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451, and Half Life 2 as a modern example of the genre.

I only used some examples from the game for brevity, some will (hopefully) no longer apply at release whilst others may well be exascerbated beyond repair unless we speak up about it first.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethanatos (Post 3798920)
None of which makes any difference in the definitions of utopia and dystopia, if you understand what those are, you understand what I mean, if you don't then mocking is rather foolish. That STO is becoming a dystopic view of Star Trek's milieu is not nonsense, it is a direction the game is taking in Tribble's current incarnation.

Mr Dangelo has stated that he is watching the "silent majority" with the implication that he is not watching the more vocal members of this community, all of which leads inexorably to a dystopic future for STO.

Lack of choice - The missions on tribble can ONLY be played in a very specific order, varying from that path is not only frowned upon, it is now mechanically impossible.

Dilithium vs Cpoints vs EC - this monitary system provides fewer choices for those that do not wish to spend their entire lives grinding and the prices in dilithium are astonishing. I understand that Mr DAngelo is examining those prices but Cryptic has a long history of dissimulation and manipulation. The Cstore also creates an atmosphere where some are more equal than others.

As an example of my last statement, let me say that I have just about every ship and item on the current CStore, I won't have to grind to buy ships at VA, I just go fetch the ones I already purchased. I will however, need to grind my *** off to achieve decent purple equipment that is not otherwise available besides dilithium purchases. The fact that I don't need to spend 200,000DIL on a new ship gives me an instant (and massive) head start in PvP should I choose to exercise it.

If the difference between utopia and dystopia is an issue, Star Trek is an example of the utopian genre where poverty in the Federation is gone, nobody has to go hungry and humanity can spend its time and energy improving itself intellectually and collectively. A dystopian example would be George Orwell's 1984, Animal Farm, Fahrenheit 451, and Half Life 2 as a modern example of the genre.

I only used some examples from the game for brevity, some will (hopefully) no longer apply at release whilst others may well be exascerbated beyond repair unless we speak up about it first.

Don't get me wrong I agree with you that prices are way to high. Sadly, this is a game and must have some form of economy. As for the leveling progression I am annoyed that you have to play every mission in order to get to end game since I understand, at least as it stands now, you won't be able to get to the Borg space without doing all the missions that lead up to it. I think your points are valid I just think your presentation was a little melo dramatic is all.

Which makes me wonder...what happens to those of us who haven't played every mission will be locked out of Borg space once this goes live. I have 3 VA and two of them skipped mission prior to getting to end game.

Archived Post 10-08-2011 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thethanatos (Post 3798569)
Title says it all, Cryptic's plans convert the Utopian future envisioned by Gene Roddenberry and turn it upside-down into an Orwellian view of the Star Trek universe. All choices are made for you, you must work constantly just to keep the status quo, you must pay the state (Cryptic) for anything that might make life a bit more comfortable.

I sincerely hope that CBS is not aware of this dystopian vision for their IP, if they are, then they should be ashamed of themselves. There is a difference between profit and profiteering that Cryptic either ignores or is ignorant of and I suspect Roddenberry would be spinning in his grave were he aware of it.

The quotes from Trek about the future finances of the Federation have already been posted all over these forums so I am not going to bother to reiterate them here, but this vision is not Star Trek, it is Animal farm where some are more equal than others.

I filed a complaint regarding Cryptic's perceived intent for the F2P transition. Hopefully, someone from CBS takes a look at the forums and tells Cryptic to shape up. Neither company needs the bad publicity.


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