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-   -   Star Trek lore and the title Commodore (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=240475)

Archived Post 11-09-2011 10:29 PM

Star Trek lore and the title Commodore
 
I'm currently working on a Foundry mission, and I was interested in getting some feedback on the use of the title of commodore in the Star Trek universe.

In ST the rank of Commodore apparently existed during the time of ToS, but had been phased out by the time TNG came around. So, the rank effectively does not exist at this point.

However, in real life, the title of Commodore is used to refer to a naval captain who is in charge of a squadron of other vessels, in order to distinguish him from the other captains.

Here's the relevant section from Wikipedia:

However, the title (not the rank) of "Commodore" had also been in use by the U.S. Navy since at least the 1950s as a "position title" for senior naval captains who commanded Destroyer Squadrons, Submarine Squadrons, Amphibious Squadrons, Patrol Boat Flotillas, Patrol Hydrofoil Missile Ship Squadrons, Special Warfare Groups, Air Groups and Air Wings (other than those officers commanding Carrier Air Groups/Carrier Air Wings, who were historically known and referred to as "CAG"s), Construction Regiments and other large sea-going commands consisting of multiple ships, submarines, aviation squadrons, etc. In contrast, the U.S. Coast Guard had never previously used the title.

Now, in my mission, which is actually the sequel to my previous Foundry mission, which is linked in my signature, your captain is placed in charge of a task force of several other vessels. By the current U.S. naval tradition, this would entitle your captain to be referred to as Commodore.

The question is would this fly in the ST universe? Would it be acceptable to refer to have the other captains refer to the player's captain as Commodore (I'd also add a dialogue prompt that explains why it is being done)? Or would this seem to be incongruous with the lore of the ST universe?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts. :)

Archived Post 11-09-2011 10:56 PM

While you could use "Commodore", the fact that the title hasn't been used in Star Trek canon since the TOS days (even in large-scale fleet battles) should point to it no longer being a tradition.

When Captain Benjamin Sisko lead strikes during the Dominion War, he was still only referred to as Captain. You could easily get away with "Fleet Captain", but Commodore might be pushing it.

That being said, if it's your mission, you call the shots. In the end, it's all up to you.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 02:44 AM

I'm going to be perfectly honest:

I'd rather be called "Captain" when being addressed in missions. I have a strange affection for that title, and I consider myself the captain of my ship. Even if I were to lead a fleet of ships, I'd still want to be called "Captain", because, to me, that is my rank. In the game, I find it odd that NPCs call me "Rear Admiral, Lower Half" when referring to my rank in-game (not to mention cumbersome).

But, as stated before, this is your mission.

*places two pennies on the table* That's my two cents. Take it or leave it. :-D

Archived Post 11-10-2011 03:00 AM

naval tradition means nothing to me as this is set 400 years in the future. ive never been a fan of people using the navy as an example of how starfleet should structure its ranks.

its true they did use commodore and while its possible just because no ones said during tng/ds9 does not automatically mean its been discontinued, its is largely accepted to have been phased out, especially considering its never been used in this game, and the current setting should probably be the deciding factor.

i would not use it.

my suggestion would be Fleet Captain as it sounds better to me and does not need any explanation. its is an equivalent rank to commodore and i also believe its is used in a temporary capacity rather than an official promotion. basically it does the job and sounds logical for the situation.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 04:31 AM

I'm still not sure why we ever hold a rank other than captain, this sort of thing is frankly puzzling.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 04:32 AM

Alright, thanks for the feedback, guys. It was just an idea, but it sounds like the general consensus is that it is not the way to go. Considering there's plenty of justification for using the player's standard rank there's no need to go with something else.

You're right that in DS9 Sisko was in charge of many ships on several occasions and he was still just Captain.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JupiterStarWarrior
I'm going to be perfectly honest:

I'd rather be called "Captain" when being addressed in missions. I have a strange affection for that title, and I consider myself the captain of my ship. Even if I were to lead a fleet of ships, I'd still want to be called "Captain", because, to me, that is my rank. In the game, I find it odd that NPCs call me "Rear Admiral, Lower Half" when referring to my rank in-game (not to mention cumbersome).

But, as stated before, this is your mission.

*places two pennies on the table* That's my two cents. Take it or leave it. :-D

I agree that the rank thing is annoying. I've thought of just referring to everyone as captain, but I wonder if some people prefer to be Vice Admiral, etc. The Rear Admiral ranks are really bad though, no idea why it doesn't just say "Rear Admiral", instead of that long monstrosity.

Personally, I wish the game stopped at Captain, but it seems Cryptic has no interest in changing it. :(

Archived Post 11-10-2011 05:56 AM

The way the Navy used it it was just a title given to the captain with most senority and placed in charge of a task force or other group of ships to differentiate him from the other captains and not an actual rank itself. But the way they kept referring to Decker in that TOS episode it seemed like they were using it as an actual rank between captain and admiral.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 06:11 AM

Novels
 
In the Star Trek Enterprise Novels Captain archer was in charge of a fleet of ships and was called Commodore, but didn't like it and wanted to still be called captain. In the recent Voyager novels, Captain Afsarah Eden is now in charge of the fleet into the Delta quadrant and her official rank is Fleet Commander. The Voyager novels are set in the 2380's so that would be more accurate. I know the novels are just soft cannon but this would seem to be the "right" rank designation.

Archived Post 11-10-2011 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gornman47
In the Star Trek Enterprise Novels Captain archer was in charge of a fleet of ships and was called Commodore, but didn't like it and wanted to still be called captain. In the recent Voyager novels, Captain Afsarah Eden is now in charge of the fleet into the Delta quadrant and her official rank is Fleet Commander. The Voyager novels are set in the 2380's so that would be more accurate. I know the novels are just soft cannon but this would seem to be the "right" rank designation.

Thanks for letting me know about that. It does seem that would be more accurate for the time, albeit the novels are soft canon, but then again so is STO.


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