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Archived Post 11-19-2011 05:29 AM

Possible Escort Build
 
I've been trying to come up with an escort build for STFs using the fleet escort / siege destroyer.
Couple of ground rules; It has to include Target Shields Subsystem III (and some sort of beam) and I would prefer it had 2 torpedo launchers up front, this however isn't vital.

I was thinking:

Front Weapons:
Photon / Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Photon / Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Disruptor Dual Beam Bank
Quad Disruptor Cannons / Disruptor Dual Beam Bank (major changes to BO skills needed)

Rear Weapons:
Disruptor Beam Array
Disruptor Beam Array / Photon / Quantum Torpedo Launcher
Photon / Quantum Torpedo Launcher

Bridge officer skills would be:
Tactical:
AP: B III, B:TSS III, C:RF I, T:HY I
T:HY III, C:RF I, B:O I / Tactical Team

Engineer:
EPtS II / Aux2SIF I, Engineering Team I
Engineering Team I

Science:
TSS II, HE I
OR
PH II, TSS I


What changes would people make? I know 3 team abilities is pretty fail and its short of shield heals but Duty Officers and Brace for Impact take care of the latter.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 08:02 AM

Hmm, I would make several changes there.

Drop the rear torpedo for a turret. If you really really want to keep target shields, then go 2 dual cannons front, 2 turrets rear, and a beam array rear, otherwise drop it and go 3 turrets rear. Your main problem is that you lack forward firepower which drops shields much quicker on small targets. Target shields has a long cooldown so you cannot depend on it.

For engineering BOFFs, forget engineering team, it isn't necessary, and obviously gives you serious cooldown overlaps. I would go with EPTS 1 x2 and Aux to SIF 1.

For science, get hazard emitters 1 and 2 for some good hull healing and shield neutralizer neutralizing.

For Tac BOFFs, Beta 3 is good, but only works on hull damage, so you must have their shields down first. Whether your team can do that for you or not is the question. I would tend to prefer CRF 3 and APB 1 instead, but STFs are team oriented so beta 3 and CRF 1 is still a solid choice.

Two torpedoes up front should be okay especially with the DOFFs for them. But I would get Torpedo spread 3 if at all possible, spread 2 if not. I don't believe HYT is worth it with twin torpedoes up front, when you could instead be throwing torpedoes at everything. You'll want to pair it with scatter volley, either 1 or 2 depending on which torpedo spread you can get.

For ensign powers you definitely want to keep the tactical team. I would drop beam overload for either fire at will if you keep the beam, high yield torpedo 1, or even another tactical team, whichever you prefer.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 08:28 AM

Foxrocks: Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to be insulting. Do you find you die a lot in STFs? Torpedo Spread, Fire At WIll and Scatter Volley are good for one thing. Agroing multiple borg ships and getting your *** blown off.

I have found the STFs are very single target orientated. Barring the trash you have to mop up, which is minimal and no problem for multiple people, you can really only hit one Nanite Transformer / Transformer / Gate at a time making multiple target attacks less useful than their single target varients.

You made some very good points but I disagree with some of them and i'll tell you why.

2 copies of EPtS. Ok sounds good on paper however; either you are getting spammed by shield neutralisers from multiple targets in which case this is a useless skill, or you are only getting hit by one every now and again. As shield neutraliser can miss (depending on your defence stat) a single hazard emitters is enough to keep it cleansed, transfer shield strength is a better shield heal and Engineering team is the most effective hull heal in the game as far as HP / Second goes.
If I keep 2x Tactical Team 1 I can run EPtE I (for when I am in seige mode) and EPtS I.

You suggested 2 dual cannons up front with 2 torpedo launchers. This means I have to get the enemy in my rear arc to use Target Shields Subsystems. Not great as it is and should be my opening beam attack. Ok I'll admit its not as useful as it once was given all the targets in STFs that have no shields anyway, but its very nice to be able to drop the shields of the Tactical Cubes long enough for the group to rip them apart. Saves a lot of time.

AP:B III is staying for sure. With the damage nerf to AP:O its almost certainly the best AP I can get and combining it with Sensor Scan = 1 dead something.

Flying the Siege Destroyer makes speccing BOs rather tricky because it shares a 15 second global cooldown with Beam Overload but not, oddly enough, Target Shields Subsystems.

Unfortunatly due to the skill tree changes greatly decreasing the possible drain effect and the lack of a console effecting the duration it is not enough to use TSSS II any more. Double HY III was fun to fire off inside 3 seconds.

I will seriously consider your idea to take turrets in the rear. However I have found that C:RF really screws with the power drain on your ship. Might not be too bad with so many torpedo launchers though.

Please keep the feedback comming.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korhil
Foxrocks: Don't take this the wrong way because I'm not trying to be insulting. Do you find you die a lot in STFs? Torpedo Spread, Fire At WIll and Scatter Volley are good for one thing. Agroing multiple borg ships and getting your *** blown off.

I have found the STFs are very single target orientated. Barring the trash you have to mop up, which is minimal and no problem for multiple people, you can really only hit one Nanite Transformer / Transformer / Gate at a time making multiple target attacks less useful than their single target varients.

I don't find it a problem myself no. But the issue is that as an escort you can kill multiple things at once that way. Probes, possibly spheres, certainly you can do a lot of damage to the various unshielded things that guard gates and cubes and the like.

Quote:

You made some very good points but I disagree with some of them and i'll tell you why.

2 copies of EPtS. Ok sounds good on paper however; either you are getting spammed by shield neutralisers from multiple targets in which case this is a useless skill, or you are only getting hit by one every now and again. As shield neutraliser can miss (depending on your defence stat) a single hazard emitters is enough to keep it cleansed, transfer shield strength is a better shield heal and Engineering team is the most effective hull heal in the game as far as HP / Second goes.
If I keep 2x Tactical Team 1 I can run EPtE I (for when I am in seige mode) and EPtS I.
This is why you use 2x hazard emitters. At worst a 15s downtime when you are vulnerable to the shield neutralizer. And while the shield neutralizer can miss, cubes like to tractor you. With HE, you can clear it quickly when that happens. You seriously lack shield resists in that build, and 2x EPTS gives you full time resists, where TSS only gives 1/3 uptime by comparison.

And that is why no ET either, they do not offer resists, and tac team is much more important to have available for the borg boarding parties. ET putting TT on cooldown is much more of a problem for that issue alone.

Quote:

You suggested 2 dual cannons up front with 2 torpedo launchers. This means I have to get the enemy in my rear arc to use Target Shields Subsystems. Not great as it is and should be my opening beam attack. Ok I'll admit its not as useful as it once was given all the targets in STFs that have no shields anyway, but its very nice to be able to drop the shields of the Tactical Cubes long enough for the group to rip them apart. Saves a lot of time.
Quite right, but it shouldn't be a problem to swing your tail forward to hit with your rear beam. You're sacrificing a significant amount of firepower with a dual beam bank. You can also try target weapons 3 which can make cubes and tac cubes impotent.



Quote:

I will seriously consider your idea to take turrets in the rear. However I have found that C:RF really screws with the power drain on your ship. Might not be too bad with so many torpedo launchers though.

Please keep the feedback comming.
The problem is that those beams and torpedo in the rear are generally useless. I've never seen power drain be an actual problem, but then most all of my ships run with an EPS console.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrocks
And that is why no ET either, they do not offer resists, and tac team is much more important to have available for the borg boarding parties. ET putting TT on cooldown is much more of a problem for that issue alone.

Bording parties are a pain in the butt thats for sure. It kinda sucks TT is the only way to get rid of them (except that DO who adds a proc to TSS).

I was never one who was big on shield resist stacking. It seems ineffective in STFs where you are hit insanely hard anyway. The resists on EPTS I are pretty low I'd rather not get hit at all by stacking a bit of extra defence.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrocks

This is why you use 2x hazard emitters. At worst a 15s downtime when you are vulnerable to the shield neutralizer. And while the shield neutralizer can miss, cubes like to tractor you. With HE, you can clear it quickly when that happens.

I ran double hazard emitters on my advanced escort for quite a while. I found that I never used the second one. I dont know why, weather its the reduced neutraliser spam, the fact I only agroed one or two ships at a time or something else.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Quite right, but it shouldn't be a problem to swing your tail forward to hit with your rear beam. You're sacrificing a significant amount of firepower with a dual beam bank.

Unfortunately if you don't knock the shields down the first shot because of the way the target subsystems abilities work you can keep hitting them to get the effect. Cant do this with the beam in the rear. If it was possible to overlap a rear beam and front torps I'd try it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxrocks
The problem is that those beams and torpedo in the rear are generally useless. I've never seen power drain be an actual problem, but then most all of my ships run with an EPS console.

Mine too but I assure you you will notice it when you are firing 3 front energy weapons and 3 turrets. This is the reason I stopped taking turrets in the rear slots and eventually moved to 2 torp launchers up front. That and 7 torp vollies are cool.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 01:18 PM

You are flying an Escort, the type of ship with tremendous damage and maneuvering potential but it sounds like you are trying to fly it like a Cruiser:confused:? You want to use 2 dual beam banks up front with beam arrays in the rear which doesn't even work for broadsiding. This ship can equip dual heavy cannons and it's craziness not to take advantage of them.

Take the single beam array in the back for example. Given the wide firing arc all you really have to do is tilt your ship up or down, maybe turn to the side a few degrees and your beam will hit. If Target Subsystem Shields misses or fails you don't need to even fire that beam again for 45 seconds. Let a couple of DHCs and a couple of turrets keep the pressure on (those will be far more effective at reliably dropping shields over the course of 45 seconds.

EPtS1 is the best and cheapest resist in the game. This one ability grants you 30 seconds of resistance and enough power to allow you to put other power elsewhere (like in weapons and engines). Chaining two copies of EPtS and carefully minding a couple of copies of Hazard Emitters is going to serve you much better than Engineering Team. With two copies of Tactical Team (version 1 since all higher versions are a waste) you are at the very least boarding party free for 2/3rds of the time. What good is Engineering Team if the Borg are screwing with your cool downs?

You have speed on your side too. Assuming you won't be getting any support from people around you then you could still fly to 11km range and buy yourself a little breathing room.

I would pay a bit more attention to Foxrocks' suggestions if I were you. There is room for outside of the box thinking but going too far astray becomes less clever and more worthless.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveHale
This ship can equip dual heavy cannons and it's craziness not to take advantage of them.

Gonna have to stop you right there. Dual Heavy Cannons suck. Anyone with any brains can tell that. The only time they don't is if you are a tactical captain and running 4 of them trying to ensure an instant kill. They suck even more on the siege destroyer because it has pretty poor turn rate in siege mode.

Same DPS as dual cannons but with more power drain is stupid. Doing all their damage in 2 bursts instead of 4 is also stupid. As the added crit severity is only really good for people capable of critting a lot (tactical captains with AP:A) and i'm a science captain that makes them pretty rubbish for me.

I really dont understand people who use dual cannons outside of the Defiant R with its crazy OP turn rate. Dual Beams have twice the firing arc and almost as much dps. Not to mention the better bridge officer skills.

A good escort pilot knows that despite their best efforts the enemy are going to be out of their front arc quite often. Usually because you pass them during your attack run (especially in STFs where things have loads of HP). Thus it makes sense to maximise your damage when they are. 3 turrets is pathetic damage even with rapid fire. 3 beam arrays or 2 and a torp are much more damage and much better utility wise just require a bit more management. We all know torpedo launchers on autofire is fail. Infact anything other than cannons on autofire it unwise. You risk a badly times High Yield hitting shields or Beam Overload when your power is low.

Archived Post 11-19-2011 05:47 PM

Please let me stop you right there. To post further would do a grave disservice to anyone else unfortunate enough to stumble across this thread:(. I've read a great many things since I started playing this game but this blows my mind. Not since Jam Sensors was considered to be a hacked battle cloak have I seen such a blatant failure to grasp the most basic of game mechanics.

I think you need to seriously consider researching the effectiveness of different weapon types, specifically cannons. Anyone can do damage over time but if an escort wants to do it right they need to use Cannons, Dual Heavies tend to be the most efficient for what they do. What they do is provide moderate to high damage over time with a significant potential for burst damage. Burst damage, my friend, is the only damage that really matters because burst is what kills anything with enough intelligence to heal itself or turn a shield facing. Yes, people are going to try to get out of that arc but it's your job to try and keep them in it.

Dual Beam Banks have their place (I use one on my own Escort). They are much better at range and have a much more forgiving firing arc. Of course, talking about NPCs enemies the firing arc doesn't really matter since they only really leave the arc by mistake (yours or bad pathing on their part).

Archived Post 11-19-2011 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korhil
Gonna have to stop you right there. Dual Heavy Cannons suck. Anyone with any brains can tell that. The only time they don't is if you are a tactical captain and running 4 of them trying to ensure an instant kill. They suck even more on the siege destroyer because it has pretty poor turn rate in siege mode.

Same DPS as dual cannons but with more power drain is stupid. Doing all their damage in 2 bursts instead of 4 is also stupid. As the added crit severity is only really good for people capable of critting a lot (tactical captains with AP:A) and i'm a science captain that makes them pretty rubbish for me.

I really dont understand people who use dual cannons outside of the Defiant R with its crazy OP turn rate. Dual Beams have twice the firing arc and almost as much dps. Not to mention the better bridge officer skills.

A good escort pilot knows that despite their best efforts the enemy are going to be out of their front arc quite often. Usually because you pass them during your attack run (especially in STFs where things have loads of HP). Thus it makes sense to maximise your damage when they are. 3 turrets is pathetic damage even with rapid fire. 3 beam arrays or 2 and a torp are much more damage and much better utility wise just require a bit more management. We all know torpedo launchers on autofire is fail. Infact anything other than cannons on autofire it unwise. You risk a badly times High Yield hitting shields or Beam Overload when your power is low.

*EDIT: So I had this whole thing typed up, decided I wasn't being nice, so just wanted to edit it out... but in short, please go to the respective threads on how escorts work on this forum, and read up... you are doing it wrong :)

My recommendation, listen to Foxrocks. You're STFs will become a lot easier once you learn how to really fly an escort. Barring that, switch to a cruiser, since that's the weapon setup your using anyway, and it seems to fit your playstyle better :)

And for the record, I rarely die in space STFs, and my setup uses HE and EPtS, as well as no beams (CRFIII is awesome, and if multiple people have Torpedo Spread 3 on your team, that's amazing... still awesome if it's just you though.)

Archived Post 11-19-2011 09:53 PM

Figures, all this time I was using DHC and here I was :rolleyes: doing it wrong.

Joking aside, dual cannons are worse for energy mangement then dhc. Also, the free crtd that come with dhc is nice too. The biggest problem people have is the limited 45 degree arc. Practice and it will be almost an non issue. Given many don't have time I could see why many give up on them.

Bottom line, I suggest the usage of dhc with escorts. If the gave normal dual cannons a 90 arc I might give pause about dhc.

OP if your set against dhc then do 2 dbb 2 torpedo 2 copies of Bo3 2copies of hyt2 rest is up to you.


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