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-   -   Cruiser Balance... BranFlakes, can you get us a comment? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=251153)

Archived Post 01-30-2012 03:28 PM

Cruiser Balance... BranFlakes, can you get us a comment?
 
Hey, I was kind of hoping to get a developer comment on how exactly the Cruisers are supposed to balance as the topic has come up in relation to the Odyssey and Bortas. Ultimately it's having an impact on the feedback being given, and I think it would be beneficial to know exactly where the developers stand on this so we know exactly what perspective we should be "reviewing" these ships from.

So I'm kind of hoping PWE_BranFlakes, who can likely more readily get a developer to give us concrete answer, might be able to nudge someone to give us some kind of official response.

See, here's the problem:
The Odyssey and the Bortas are up for testing on TTS. We've been told that the devs want feedback, and we're giving it, but ultimately it raises the question: How are these ships supposed to stack up? Should the Odyssey and Bortas be equal? Are KDF Battle Cruisers and UFP Cruisers supposed to be equal, or do KDF Battle Cruisers intentionally outclass them?

Because apparently there are people on TTS who believe that there is an intentional imbalance between Battle Cruisers and Cruisers, and that this should play out in the new Odyssey and Bortas. Thus we're seeing people giving feedback from this perspective and relaying the idea that the Bortas needs to be buffed, and the Odyssey needs to be nerfed, despite the fact that when pressed they've basically agreed that the Odyssey is, essentially, at least somewhat inferior to the Bortas in a direct comparison.
And no, I didn't get that last part backwards. They want to buff the ship they see as better, and nerf the one they see as inferior. So obviously this is greatly colouring some feedback being given, and thus in order to make sure that CaptainGeko and friends get the feedback they're actually looking for, we kind of need an answer here so we know what we're dealing with and what the intentions are here....

Any help here would be appreciated.

Archived Post 01-30-2012 03:42 PM

This would indeed be very helpful.

Archived Post 01-30-2012 03:50 PM

Couldn't this pretty much have just stayed in the thread you've been arguing about it in for the past few days...? (IE: The official thread that a dev started <http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=250654&page=24>). Would have fit real well in this post < http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...&postcount=233 >. Why make an entirely new thread; when there is an OFFICIAL thread for the exact thing you are questioning?

Archived Post 01-30-2012 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHappyJoyJoy (Post 3979992)
they've basically agreed that the Odyssey is, essentially, at least somewhat inferior to the Bortas in a direct comparison.[/indent]

They have? I wouldn't fly BortaS even if it was a Federation cruiser.

Archived Post 01-30-2012 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loyaltrekie (Post 3980033)
Couldn't this pretty much have just stayed in the thread you've been arguing about it in for the past few days...? (IE: The official thread that a dev started <http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=250654&page=24>). Would have fit real well in this post < http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...&postcount=233 >. Why make an entirely new thread; when there is an OFFICIAL thread for the exact thing you are questioning?

Because the official thread is for Odyssey feedback alone - this question is, quite clearly, about the broader categories of cruisers for each faction. Plus, as an observer to the debate, I'm pretty darn interested in what the idea is myself, as I've never been able to enjoy fed cruisers entirely and solely because they turn so slowly. Adherents to the ridgey side of the Force get access to a fair amount more mobility and they get cloaking without spending a console slot -on every single klingon-built ship.

Archived Post 01-30-2012 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loyaltrekie (Post 3980033)
Couldn't this pretty much have just stayed in the thread you've been arguing about it in for the past few days...?

Well...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talhydras (Post 3980064)
Because the official thread is for Odyssey feedback alone - this question is, quite clearly, about the broader categories of cruisers for each faction.

... yeah that.

That thread is for feedback on the Odyssey. Another issue has come up in that thread, that is ultimately effecting it.

This thread is specifically inquiring about that issue, and asking for a developer response so we can have some clarification.

While feedback for the Odyssey would properly filed under the TTS heading, and in the topic referenced, this is asking for clarification specifically on how Battle Cruisers and Cruisers are supposed to balance, which is a more general topic and thus better fits on the Star Trek Online Discussion board. While it does relate back to the TTS topic, it extends beyond it, and thus is more suited to a new thread on a more general board.

Two different topics, two different threads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KitsuneRommel
They have? I wouldn't fly BortaS even if it was a Federation cruiser.

The group of people I'm referring to? Yes, they basically have.

Archived Post 01-30-2012 07:34 PM

the console setup, that has caused a lot of the debate, is the result of the devs not being aware of how imbalanced the types of consoles are. they really though those 2 console setups were balanced against each other, they wouldn't have released them in their current form if that wasn't the case. now, thanks to the flag ships, the console imbalance is finally a topic getting the attention it needs.

flooding the game with the PTW consoles and the borg console didn't help ether, that's whats kept this topic brushed under the carpet. the science consoles on non science ships were used as dump locations for those PTW consoles, nothing was lost by not slotting actual science consoles there. all those universal consoles should be made devices in my opinion, the console slots should be for consoles only.

if there was a + to weapon accuracy science console, that would finally be something a healer/support cruiser would find more valuable then a tactical console. each of the cruiser's shots aren't going to do that much damage anyway, but if they were hitting those speedy escorts more often that could mean much more damage in the long run.

the stats of these ships need to be thrown out, they are to out of line with the station setups of current ships. the odyssey and bortas should both have the exact stats the excelsior has, only the odyssey's LTC station should be science. nothing would be unbalanced, it would just be the filling of open niches within the current ship station structure.

Archived Post 01-31-2012 09:10 AM

Hey folks, sorry I'm a bit late for the discussion.
It seems Cryptic has seen the need to look at the science consoles in general and are currently looking into the possibility of moving some shield consoles into the science category.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=251191

This should increase the usefulness of non-science ships that have more than one or two science consoles.

Archived Post 01-31-2012 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talhydras (Post 3980064)
Adherents to the ridgey side of the Force get access to a fair amount more mobility and they get cloaking without spending a console slot -on every single klingon-built ship.

????

How does the Bortas Turn Rate of 5.5 provide better "mobility" than The Oddysey's 6.

cloak??? .... don't get me started .... K.L.I.N.G.O.N. Its as iconic about the race as their "ridgey side".

Archived Post 01-31-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mister_dee
Hey folks, sorry I'm a bit late for the discussion.
It seems Cryptic has seen the need to look at the science consoles in general and are currently looking into the possibility of moving some shield consoles into the science category.

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=251191

This should increase the usefulness of non-science ships that have more than one or two science consoles.

A.K.A the Odyssey Class.

The ships are not even live and Cryptic is already living up to it's reputation......

Seeing as the Bortas only has 1 science slot and the Odyssey 3, the Federation looses nothing and gains two extra engineering slots, ie. more defence.

The Klingons loose an engineering console, effectively reducing its shield defence even more....


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