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-   -   Science Vs Cruiser (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=254614)

Archived Post 02-13-2012 08:01 AM

Science Vs Cruiser
 
I'm making this post here because I don't know where it really goes so I hope this is the correct Forum.

I've only been playing for a few days but I've noticed from playing a science vessal and Teaming with MULTIPLE Cruisers, The science Vessal is the much better Tank from what I've seen, I'm not sure if this changes with endgame areas, ((Shield pericing guns etc)) but with the MASSIVE threat gen I seem to create when I heal any of the ships near me. and the 1.3 Sheild mod I have plus my point spread, mainly focusing on warp core efficancy right now. My sheilds are on the verge of impregnabale.

I thought the Cruiser was supposed to have a better tank role while the science vessal is much more squishy, while its true that once my shield does fail ((Ussually when everything on the map is blasting at one side)) I go squish pretty damn fast. Sheild Failure is very rare for me.

I wanted to know what you all think, am i playing my ship wrong? will focusing on Shield regneration/strength hurt me in the long run?

Archived Post 02-13-2012 01:25 PM

So far (with me at least) it seems that Cruisers aren't meant to have impregnable shields. Like you said, once you get through those shields you die very fast. Science vessels (and the build you describe) to me are support class ships. That means (in my mind) that they can take alot of shield damage, but can't dish it out. Cruisers, on the other hand, can. And when a cruisers shields fail, they still have alot of hull HP to fall back on while they get shields back up.

Archived Post 02-14-2012 12:11 AM

Both cruisers and science ships can be good tanks with a good setup. For cruisers, with more hull and more engineering slots, it's easier to keep the hull in good conditions. Sci ships, with better shield stats and less hull, usually shield tank better. A well set up cruiser probably has a slight advantage over an equaly good sci ship setup, but it comes down to different forms of tanking/healing.

If you want the best of both worlds and an uber tank play an Engineer/Nebula combination :) The problem with cruiser captains is, that a lot of them trying to do some kind of DPS cruiser and fail horribly. I'm not trying to bash peoples playstyle more than necessary here, but once you hit the upper levels and start doing STFs, you'll see a lot of cruisers that go down in seconds (and some don't even dish out damage in return). It's not entirly the players fault, this game is absolutly damage driven, so a ship only good for tanking is of questionable usefulness.

Science ships aren't easy, but IMHO way more useful than cruisers for endgame related stuff. The only exception on fed side is probably a Tactical/Ecxelsior combo and maybe a really good Dreadnought. You'll find a lot of people complain about sci ships being inferior to the other 2 classes, usually cause they are trying to use sci ships exactly like the other 2 ship classes and in most cases this just doesn't work. If you like them, stick with them. You aren't doing anything wrong when you manage to outperform cruisers :)

Archived Post 02-14-2012 12:37 AM

I find that science ships are really about their special abilities, none of which are weaponry. There are ways to hold an enemy, use their damage against them, or knock them around like rag dolls. It takes more work to perfect an offensive science build than any other. As a team healer and support, it's a bit easier.

Archived Post 02-14-2012 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by decker999 (Post 4020478)
I'm not trying to bash peoples playstyle more than necessary here, but once you hit the upper levels and start doing STFs, you'll see a lot of cruisers that go down in seconds (and some don't even dish out damage in return). It's not entirly the players fault, this game is absolutly damage driven, so a ship only good for tanking is of questionable usefulness.

I decided to be the Engineer in a Cruiser so I could be the tank amongst my friends who had mostly picked tactical. In an elite STF, the Borg Tactical Cube can and frequently does one shot my 100% hull 100% shield Odyssey, and even with all of the tanking skills the low turn rate means I'm also generally unable to beat a Sphere before it beats me. In return, I do a little less than half the dps of a tactical colleague in the same ship, who in the 'real world' survives just as much damage as I do.

I wish I'd rolled Tactical.

Archived Post 02-14-2012 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NumberThree
I decided to be the Engineer in a Cruiser so I could be the tank amongst my friends who had mostly picked tactical. In an elite STF, the Borg Tactical Cube can and frequently does one shot my 100% hull 100% shield Odyssey, and even with all of the tanking skills the low turn rate means I'm also generally unable to beat a Sphere before it beats me. In return, I do a little less than half the dps of a tactical colleague in the same ship, who in the 'real world' survives just as much damage as I do.

I wish I'd rolled Tactical.

You could always put an Engineer in an Escort. You'll not deal as much damage as the Tac's but you'll do a lot more damage than in an Odyssey and with your defensive Captain abilities you'll still be a lot tougher a Tac in the same ship.
I don't really like Escorts these days (I'm hooked on Science) but of all the classes I enjoyed Engineer in an Escort most; the damage was much lower than a Tac but played well they can last a lot longer than any Tac and can be pretty self reliant (which is useful if you PuG because you'll rarely get a heal). Definitely worth a look if you're wanting more damage.

Archived Post 02-15-2012 07:38 AM

And now comes an update,

Got to level 20,

got the new ship

same shield from the dilithim shop

and DEAD IN SECONDS repeatedly, untill I finnaly said screw it and bought full beam arrays and parked infront of a ship constanly targeting their shields

I'm not sure if this is beause I changed my engi ((removed emergancy power to shield to Engi team Since I never used Emergancy power) or if there is some sort of reason that the shields seem to bleed faster, I'm honestly stumped after some mucking around I found a good balance of power levels to do what I was doing in my First science vessal (which was 50/65/50/35)

And by that I mean all energy into shields, leaving with no way to hit back with my beams, leaving me to hopelessly spam torpedos praying my 40% reduced cooldown from crew kicks in.

Why? does the shield modifier drop off if your using less updated shields or something? the reason I didn't change out right away was I was tight on some cash but found a higher rank less cap less regen shield and survived longer .

I know I should stop posting here and move to the Ship disscussion but in an effort to avoid reposting this and cluttering the fourm with 2 difrent threads in two days, can an admin move this to the ship discussion?

Archived Post 02-15-2012 08:42 AM

I've been flying a DSSV with my main who is an Engineer for almost two yeas, I haven't found a ship that has kept me happy as long. The trick to flying a decent Science ship is multiple Boffs setup for different situations. I've got 6 science boffs of which I can mix/match depending on what's needed for the mission. Normally if a new type of mission calls for it I train a brand new boff to fill the role, one of which was added just for Energy drain against the Tactical Cubes.

I do okay in DPS, I've got AntiProton DBBx2 and a Quantum forward. I've also got 3 Plasma Turrets aft, all MK XII, all Borg weapons. So I've got a decent amount of damage forward. I may consider Chroniton in the future, but atm what I've is working.

Archived Post 02-15-2012 08:47 AM

Emergency to Shields is by far one of the most powerful and useful skills in the game. You may not have seen yet (I only just noticed you haven't been playing long) but it grants a powerful shield resistance which is higher at each rank (18/24/30%) as well as a small shield heal.
I'd guess you were running it as a heal but it's a much better skill if you cycle two copies (I run EPtS 1 and 2 on my Sci ship) so that you always have resistance buffs running which, coupled with the increased shield power will greatly increase the durability of your shields.

It just sounds like you aren't running much in the way of resistance buffs. The lack of documentation with the game makes it difficult to work out what's what but if you run a Cruiser then try running with 2xEPtS (I like 1 and 2 to free up high end Eng skills for team heals or Eject Warp Plasma) which will allow you to cycle them with no down time, and a Transfer Shield Strength with another Science skill you like (I run Hazard Emitters 1 and TSS2). With those and constant shield redistribution, either by tying the shield distribution to the fire weapons button or if you're a Luddite like me by clicking the ship icon on the UI your shields should be pretty much impregnable in PvE.
If you only PvE then using shields with energy resistance for the NPCs you're fighting (Disruptor for Klingon and Romulan, Tetryon for Hirogen, Polaron for Dominion, Phaser (IIRC) for Cardassian, Plasma for Borg and Antiproton for the Fek'lhr (sp) will help some but it's the Torpedoes that do the damage with NPCs so they 'll not be as useful as you'd expect.

EDIT; Something to remember is that NPCs have a lot of HP to burn through so running high defences with low weapons power will just bore you to death. I never run with Weapons below 90 and even then that's in a T5 Escort where I can hit 125 from 90. If I'm in a Cruiser then it'll be 100/50/25/25 which at T5 will allow you to run shields close to 125 for maximum resistance.
If you're in a Science ship then I tend to run at 100/25/25/50 which gives good energy weapon damage and with careful management of consumables like Aux batteries, Red matter Capacitor and the Enhanced Plasma Manifold from the Oberth I can run very high Aux when I need it. But for PvE it's important to run high weapons because other wise you'll be there forever, especially at higher difficulties where the NPCs have huge amounts of HP to burn through.

Archived Post 02-15-2012 09:15 AM

Okay my current Char, from what I remeber ((not home right now))
Engi level 24

Skills
tactics

Starship weapons training max
Projectial weaps max
Energy weaps max

Engenering
Starship hull repair Max
warp core efficancy max
Warp core Potential 6-8 ranks

Science
Flow capaciters max
sheild emitters max

I know the cons the ship has but not exactly what the defelctor dish is ((Its a Purple very rare from Kerr'at system)) and the engine gives me a 1-2 points in all systems

Engi con
Resistance 7.5%

Science con
Shield regenerator
Shield Regenerator (Both dilith store))
+17 flow capacator

Tactical con,
Energy prefire

Boffs are
Human Tactical officer
Torp spread 1
High yeild 2

Rigilian engi
Engi team 1
Directed energy modulation

trill Science
Science team 1
Transfer sheild 1
photnoic officer

Andorian Sciecne
Jam sensors

I ofcourse am using the
RSV


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