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-   -   Advice needed - tac skills (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=256786)

Archived Post 02-23-2012 03:57 AM

Advice needed - tac skills
 
To max or not to max is the main question here.
I've been going over quite a lot of builds in this here forum, but most of them deal with ship builds, not skills.

This is the intro
Quote:

(unfortunately spoiler tags do not work, so i have to dump this in quote)
I'm running a Fleet escort currently, the setup follows here. This setup will not change, I started the thread as a captain skill discussion, not ship build.
Fleet escort:
4 Fore weps: 4x Plasma-Disruptor Hybrid Dual heavy cannons
3 Aft weps: 3x Disruptor turrets
4 Tac consoles: 4x disruptor (+26% dmg) coils
2 Sci consoles: Shield amplifier (13% shield regen), Grappler
3 Eng consoles: 3x shield power setting (+3.5 power to shields, 10.5 total)
Other stuff: random blue positron deflector (16 emitters, 22 shield, 22 structural integrity), random pink resilient shield (cap+reg+20% plasma reduction), random green combat engine (spd+turn)

Boff skills:
Tac Commander - tac team, rapid fire, pattern omega, pattern beta
Tac Lt. Commander - tac team, rapid fire, pattern delta
Sci Lt. - hazard emitters, hazard emitters
Eng Lt. - em power to shields, reverse shield polarity
Eng Ensign - em power to shields

Doff active in space:
2x Conn Officer - reduces tac team cooldown
3x Technician - reduces boffs skill cooldown

Current power setup:
weapons - 104/75
shields - 100/75
engines - 39/25
aux - something something /25
I have reached VA rank in less than a week , but I am still barely beginning the Romulan episodes, so I do not have access to late/end game stuff.
Never played a STF yet, but intend to at some point in the future. Fleet Actions and the random Fed incursion/Borg invasion are enough for now.
I am building this as a PVE character.

I am currently considering two builds:
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...mischieftac1_0
The First build focuses on getting most skills to +6 (84%) and as a result it has more skills opened up. It also had some 15000 skill points remaining at the end, which allowed for some of the skills to go beyond +6 (into the red zone).

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...mischieftac2_0
The Second skill build (which I am currently using) focuses on maxing what I've seen to be "important" skills. As a result, it has fewer skills opened up, but most of them are +9.

So the idea is, which build do YOU consider to be better?

Archived Post 02-23-2012 06:31 AM

1. I know you said "this setup will not change", but there are two things that I'd recommend you consider changing. If you absolutely don't want to change anything about the ship, then skip to 2.
If not: Weapon power, imo, should be 125/100. I can actually get 125/95, and you probably could as well with the 2nd skill build you've posted. Cut your shields to 75/50 to make the change. Also, try to get a Field Generator (Sci console) for a 35% boost to shield capacity, if you can afford/craft one.

2. "To max or not to max?". My answer is max it. Out of the two skill builds you've posted, I think the second one is stronger. It's pretty similar to my own skill build. The only thing that seems to be "missing" from it is skill points in Electro Plasma Systems, which enables your ship to more quickly recover energy that it loses from weapons as you fire. I'll have to check what I sacrificed in order to have points in there on my own build when I'm at home later.

Escorts are about damage and that build should enable you to do more of it then the first one. I find little benefit in things like Driver Coil & Starship Batteries that the first build has. Whilst on the 2nd one, there's nothing there that strikes me as "wasted" (apart from the 1 point in Driver Coil, but that can't be spent anywhere else).

Archived Post 02-23-2012 11:40 AM

Okay this is mine: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...ld=Skrallis1_0

Main differences:

- I use torpedoes, so I have torpedo skills. That obviously doesn't apply to you. So you don't need them. (Tbh, I may have too much spent on Torp skills, but I'm out of respecs). I don't have anything in Shield Emitters because I only have one shield skill. You have 3, so Shield Emitters is worthwhile for you. That pretty much cancels out the Lt. grade Torpedo skill I'm using.

- I have Hull Plating (Energy resist) instead of Armour Plating (Kentic resist). Since the Romulans like to hit you with 3x Heavy Plasma Torps at times, Kenetic resist is probably a decent option for you at the moment. I have energy resist for my forays into PvP.

- I went Impulse Thrusters for extra turn rate instead of the flat engine power bonus from Engine Performance. I'm not sure I actually tried Engine Performace at any stage, I just saw extra turn rate and went for it. Someone may come along and tell you that I'm wrong to do that.

- I have Electro Plasma Systems. This is partly because I have a cloak and want my shields to power back up quickly (which doesn't apply to you), but it does help your weapon power recover more quickly after it drops when you fire more than 1 weapon at the same time. It'd also speed up the boost from your Emergency Power to Shields.


Overall, I'd say the 2nd build you've posted should work well for your ship. The only thing I think you should try to add is EPS.

Archived Post 02-24-2012 01:12 AM

I'm struggling to understand your build (2nd one). You use tricos, but have not put any points in any projectile skills. You are definitely over the weapon power cap (125), unless you plan to lower power levels to weapons. You have no points in Electro-plasma systems, one of the critical escort skills, as it keeps your weapon power up while firing and benefits all those shield heals you have. You're running 2 hazard emitters which share a cooldown, better to run one transfer shield strength, and one hazard emitters, and pop an aux battery before you pop hazard emitters each time. A second hazard emitters is never going to save your life. Especially not without popping an aux battery first, or putting points in Aux power systems.

You have maxed some tier 5 skills, which is a pure waste of points. You are getting 5 points benefit for a cost of 3000 skill points per point, it's not efficient at all. If this build is primarliy pve as well, why no torps? Torp spread is my go to ability for questing, if you put down a cannon scatter shot at three targets, all their front shields are down when you put 4 torps per target their way. It's like a firework display. Anything smaller than a cruiser is dead in a single pass). Why two rapid fires? In pve, you will often be facing groups of smaller ships, and only sometimes an enemy cruiser or battleship. And even in those cases, torp spread (with quantums, not tricos) is great single target. Why all the attack patterns? Tac captains flying solo don't need Beta, we have fire on my mark. You only need omega for escaping tractor beams and such.

I know you said you don't want to change, but I felt I had to rewrite your build, or I would be negligent in my advice giving... Here's what I would do...first of all, ditch the mines, put a quantum torp up front. Then...

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...etescortaash_0

This is your classic gunboat build. Good single target, good AoE, good defense, and good offense. Almost nothing sacrificed.

Archived Post 02-24-2012 04:24 AM

Well, first of all thanks for the replies.

About weapon power: it's currently at 104 and I can't increase it any further. the marker is set at 75 and it simply refuses to go any higher.

I have not seen anywhere Sci consoles that increase shield capacity. There's the shield regen one and then there's the "+24 to emitters" one.

I used to have EPS consoles before and did not find much use for them. It's why I havent found much use for the Electro Plasma skill. Seems more like a cruiser type skill to me, since after a full volley (4 cannons+3 turrets) at rapid fire power drain, the weapons power is right back up at 100 before the second volley begins. At least that's what I've observed so far.

I did the two tutorial missions on PVP and nothing more. I dunno about hull energy resist for PVP, but armor seems to be much more essential for PVE, since most of the time you will die to kinetic damage like torpedo spams and crap like that. Yeah, escorts are all about glass cannon type of play, once the shields are down there's nothing much to do except struggle to get them back up. With hull exposed you're pretty much dead meat.

@aashenfox I honestly have no idea how those torpedos (or mines) got there. Must've clicked randomly on crap around there. I ain't using any sort of torpedo/mine launchers, just heavy cannons and turrets.

About the hazard emitters, they're good heal over time and remove plasma burning and other kinds of borgy crap, which is why i'm using two. At some point i used to have Polarize Hull and Hazard Emitters, but Polarize doesn't seem to work when you're already trapped in a tractor beam. Besides, Omega does the job better, and adds a dmg boost to boot, so I dropped Polarize Hull altogether. Hazard isn't used as a life saving skill, it's ongoing, using 2 one after another to have it (almost) all the time active.
Transfer Shield Strength never looked appealing to me, since as a Tac captain I supposed my deflector ain't that powerful to begin with. Didn't know this skill gives you fixed bonuses regardless of deflector power/associated skills.
I will definitely look into replacing the shield batteries for aux ones since I never use those anyway. I've been looking towards that increasing pile of deuterium surplus up until now.

Cannon Scatter: crap spreads damage all over the place. It's good for popping minefields and not much else.
I am using custom key binds for skill chains, for example pressing E activates 4 skills one after the other.
Focus DPS on one target at a time.

Torpedoes. Seriously, torpedoes have no place to exist in space. The simple idea of something moving reaaally slow toward you and YOU CAN'T EVADE IT seems very silly. That said, the game has no countermeasures to speak of, which turns torpedoes to a somewhat powerful weapon, but highly situational.
So what do I want, 600 more DPS or a torpedo that fires once in a blue moon, only at close range and only when the shields are down. I'll take the DPS thanks.

Anything smaller than a cruiser already dies like flies, in 10 seconds of active Beta 3 + Rapid Fire I'm taking out 4 birds of prey, gorn frigates and other frigate type enemies. With enough lucky crits I might actually turn a battleship into space dust in that time (actually did that once, but only once so far).

Beta is absolute combined with Alpha. Omega is useful when Beta is on a cooldown. Delta, I dunno, not much use for it. Actually thinking on turning that Delta to a second Omega. Fire on my Mark has 2 minutes cooldown, good luck using that as defense debuff. I only use it on the biggest meanest targets because of the long cooldown.

I'm waiting to see how that T5 Akira (supposedly coming in march) will be, definitely buying that one. None of the current T5 escorts strikes me as "me wants that", the defiant is just an overhyped turret, and the mvam looks butt ugly. I still have 4 or 5 respec tokens just in case.

Archived Post 02-24-2012 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perji
Well, first of all thanks for the replies.

About weapon power: it's currently at 104 and I can't increase it any further. the marker is set at 75 and it simply refuses to go any higher.

This is a problem. You need to figure this out.

Quote:

I have not seen anywhere Sci consoles that increase shield capacity. There's the shield regen one and then there's the "+24 to emitters" one.
Look again.

Quote:

I used to have EPS consoles before and did not find much use for them. It's why I havent found much use for the Electro Plasma skill. Seems more like a cruiser type skill to me, since after a full volley (4 cannons+3 turrets) at rapid fire power drain, the weapons power is right back up at 100 before the second volley begins. At least that's what I've observed so far.
If you had 125 power, you'd notice it more. You don't need EPS consoles if you have maxed EPS skill. This is a dps increase plain and simple. I don't think you've observed accurately the effect of it.

Quote:

I did the two tutorial missions on PVP and nothing more. I dunno about hull energy resist for PVP, but armor seems to be much more essential for PVE, since most of the time you will die to kinetic damage like torpedo spams and crap like that. Yeah, escorts are all about glass cannon type of play, once the shields are down there's nothing much to do except struggle to get them back up. With hull exposed you're pretty much dead meat.
I know nothing about pvp so I can't help you there.

Quote:

@aashenfox I honestly have no idea how those torpedos (or mines) got there. Must've clicked randomly on crap around there. I ain't using any sort of torpedo/mine launchers, just heavy cannons and turrets.
3 cannons and a quantum torp used correctly is a dps increase. Period.

Quote:

About the hazard emitters, they're good heal over time and remove plasma burning and other kinds of borgy crap, which is why i'm using two. At some point i used to have Polarize Hull and Hazard Emitters, but Polarize doesn't seem to work when you're already trapped in a tractor beam. Besides, Omega does the job better, and adds a dmg boost to boot, so I dropped Polarize Hull altogether. Hazard isn't used as a life saving skill, it's ongoing, using 2 one after another to have it (almost) all the time active.
Transfer Shield Strength never looked appealing to me, since as a Tac captain I supposed my deflector ain't that powerful to begin with. Didn't know this skill gives you fixed bonuses regardless of deflector power/associated skills.
Hazard emitters...ok, I use them as my go to Hull Heal, not as a debuff remover. Plasma fires? Let them burn. Add to that, that ever since I got the plasma turret I've never been hit by a plasma torp, or any other destructible torp. As a pure hull heal, after using an Aux battery, it will bring you back from the brink of destructoin, mark my words. Two are not needed. Polarise has too long a cooldown, I agree don't bother with it, but transfer shield strength is invaluable, it's a decent shield heal AND a shield damage resist.

Quote:

I will definitely look into replacing the shield batteries for aux ones since I never use those anyway. I've been looking towards that increasing pile of deuterium surplus up until now.
Worth mentioning I suppose...An aux battery also benefits Transfer Shield Strength if I remember correctly. Particularly effective when your shields go down seems to be; popping an aux bat, then hazard emitters, then transfer shield strength. Your shields will be instantly back up and any hull damage will be rapidly healing, plus you'll have a damage resist on.

Quote:

Cannon Scatter: crap spreads damage all over the place. It's good for popping minefields and not much else.
I am using custom key binds for skill chains, for example pressing E activates 4 skills one after the other.
Focus DPS on one target at a time.
This is just wrong dude, sorry. Scatter shot does almost the same damage single target as rapid fire. On multiple targets, it brings all their shields down together so your torp spread finishes them off. I guarantee you this is FIFTY TIMES more efficient than your method of focusing them down one at a time. try it, you will see. I also use some extremely complex macros, I don't think that means much, edit them appropriately.

Quote:

Torpedoes. Seriously, torpedoes have no place to exist in space. The simple idea of something moving reaaally slow toward you and YOU CAN'T EVADE IT seems very silly. That said, the game has no countermeasures to speak of, which turns torpedoes to a somewhat powerful weapon, but highly situational.
I guess you don't believe in air to air missiles in war either? As for situational, yes, the situation that you have used your cannons to down your enemy's shields and now you're ready to blow them to bits. Can't think of a more common situation than that!

You seem to have a poor opinion of projectiles, which I find bizarre. Humor me. Try them (WITH the appropriate talents and abilities to properly use them).

Quote:

So what do I want, 600 more DPS or a torpedo that fires once in a blue moon, only at close range and only when the shields are down. I'll take the DPS thanks.
If you really cared about the dps, you'd be using torps. Especially given that in STFs, most enemies (sic: Borg) shields are down constantly, and the other half of targets don't even have shields. They fire a lot more often than 'once in a blue moon', and you can fire them from 10k (quantums are not destructible and do not lose damage over distance as far as I know, though I may be wrong on this, would be stupid if they did), plus since you are using dual heavies, your enemy's shields will be down more often than they are up.

Quote:

Anything smaller than a cruiser already dies like flies, in 10 seconds of active Beta 3 + Rapid Fire I'm taking out 4 birds of prey, gorn frigates and other frigate type enemies. With enough lucky crits I might actually turn a battleship into space dust in that time (actually did that once, but only once so far).
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING in solo pve survives my FomM/scatter shot/rapid fire/torp spread. Nothing. Even battleships are dead before I'm 5km away. I see no need for me to have beta. I use Alpha and omega only, my two torp spread IIIs do a lot more dps than beta and delta.

Quote:

Beta is absolute combined with Alpha. Omega is useful when Beta is on a cooldown. Delta, I dunno, not much use for it. Actually thinking on turning that Delta to a second Omega. Fire on my Mark has 2 minutes cooldown, good luck using that as defense debuff. I only use it on the biggest meanest targets because of the long cooldown.
since you don't use torps at all, I have no problem with you having so many attack patterns, but if you did use torps, your torp abilities would be much more useful.

Quote:

I'm waiting to see how that T5 Akira (supposedly coming in march) will be, definitely buying that one. None of the current T5 escorts strikes me as "me wants that", the defiant is just an overhyped turret, and the mvam looks butt ugly. I still have 4 or 5 respec tokens just in case.
Got a source on that akira comment?

Archived Post 02-24-2012 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aashenfox
Got a source on that akira comment?

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...9&postcount=47

Archived Post 02-24-2012 05:53 AM

Nice, fingers crossed for that, thanks for the link.

Archived Post 02-24-2012 06:55 AM

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...mischieftac3_0

New build, maxed out.

Fore Weapons: 3x DHC, 1x Torpedo
Aft Weapons: 3x Turret (same type is implied lol, no rainbows here)

Boff:
Em Power to Shields
Em Power to Shields, Reverse Shield Polarity

Transfer Shield Strength, Hazard Emitters

Tac Team, Rapid Fire, Spread/High Yield
Tac Team, Rapid Fire, Omega 1, Beta 3

Doff: 2x Conn Officer, 3x Technician

Questions:
- High Yield or Spread?
- Is it seriously advised to drop all hull resist skills for torpedo buff skills? considering you only use ONE launcher?
- Ideas on the "Performance" skills. Is it better to dump "engine performance" and get "warp core efficiency", which would boost both engines and aux?

Archived Post 02-24-2012 07:05 AM

Aw, I like rainbows :) Derp :)

Boff setup is nice.

Build comments: Too much weapon power. You are going to be way over cap. If you are happy to mess around with your power distribution, this might be ok, but as I have recently been discussing with another member here, more than 3 points in Weapon Performance is difficult to get any real benefit from, at least not without some changes to your power settings.

So, take 6 points off Weapon Performance and put them in Warp Core Efficiency (6 points) and one more point each in Electro Plasma, Warp Core Performance and Impulse Thrusters. Apart from that, looks great!

When you get back in game, set Weapon Power to 100 and see if when you are in SYSTEM space, you are at 125. If you are, reduce weapon power to 95 and check again, then 90, etc etc. Keep doing this until you drop below 125, then undo the last change to put you back up to 125. Any spare power, distribute as you wish (Shields or Aux).

PS. I wouldn't drop the resist skills, I run a gunboat with torpedoes and this is my build (more or less)...6 and 3 in the resist skills respectively.

http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...rtskillsrev2_0


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