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-   -   Sub Nucleonic Beam (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=260712)

Archived Post 03-13-2012 08:07 PM

Sub Nucleonic Beam
 
I'm just wondering what the community's opinion is on Sub Nuc's ability to remove ALL current buffs that are running.

In most games that I've played, this has been deemed completely over-powered and those powers had been limited to two to three buffs removed. i.e. UO, WoW, AC, ****.

What do others think of this power?

Since some people seem to be having a difficult time extrapolating my argument:

1) SNB removes all of a player's buffs with no self-imposed limitation on the ability or a control resistance added to provide a chance to resist a buff's removal - OP

2) SNB can be triggered on the same target a second time after the first one, with no limitation, making popcorn pop even faster... - OP

A small balance would be appreciated for this ability IMO. However, I do understand that this is a very important ability and the balance would need to be tested so maybe Cryptic should outsource that task...

Archived Post 03-13-2012 08:32 PM

This has been covered many times over the years and the general consensus was "OP'ed!" followed by "get over it"

Edit: Other MMO's shouldn't dictate STO's gameplay, otherwise we'd all be on ground pvp rather than totally awesome space pvp

Archived Post 03-13-2012 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BalanceOfTerror
This has been covered many times over the years and the general consensus was "OP'ed!" followed by "get over it"

Edit: Other MMO's shouldn't dictate STO's gameplay, otherwise we'd all be on ground pvp rather than totally awesome space pvp

That's sort of like saying the past should not dictate the future, but ok.

I think it's a bit OP, but I guess I'll just wait and see what happens. In the meantime get owned by it.

Archived Post 03-13-2012 08:42 PM

it seems that to balance this out they've added other ways for non-science captians to get this. the subnuc duty officer comes to mind, as does the new jemhdar set when used in a jemhdar attack ship or galor.

Archived Post 03-13-2012 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maicake716
it seems that to balance this out they've added other ways for non-science captians to get this. the subnuc duty officer comes to mind, as does the new jemhdar set when used in a jemhdar attack ship or galor.

Subnuc duty officer?

Archived Post 03-13-2012 09:29 PM

Remove it with a sci team. For me its never a huge deal. If I'm flying in a setup team other guys have a sci team if needed. If I'm flying solo then I either carry sci team or I don't. Sometimes SNB can be what does you in, most of the time in random arenas its not anything to go crazy over.

Tac escorts have the tac initiative to keep the damage going, a Sci in anything should have a sci team, and Engys in cruisers if setup right will shrug off SNB.

Crazy OMG overpowered? No. Awesome thing to use that can change the fight? Yes. OMG RUN ITS A SCI WITH SNB!! No.

Archived Post 03-13-2012 09:36 PM

It's a powerful ability, but the other two careers have some crazy stuff too. Miracle worker can save you from zero shield and 25% hull with a single push of a button. For Tac, if you let your hull drop to 25% then quickly use a powerful cooldown like reverse shield polarity, then go down fighting can give you 80%+ to all damage done for a whole minute.
In contrast of this, subnuc is pretty much in line. It's annoying, yes, but half of its effect can be negated with science team, which you should have anyways with all the holds, disables, jams and scramles out there.

Archived Post 03-14-2012 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koopa27 (Post 4092591)
Remove it with a sci team. For me its never a huge deal. If I'm flying in a setup team other guys have a sci team if needed. If I'm flying solo then I either carry sci team or I don't. Sometimes SNB can be what does you in, most of the time in random arenas its not anything to go crazy over.

Tac escorts have the tac initiative to keep the damage going, a Sci in anything should have a sci team, and Engys in cruisers if setup right will shrug off SNB.

Crazy OMG overpowered? No. Awesome thing to use that can change the fight? Yes. OMG RUN ITS A SCI WITH SNB!! No.

No one said the debuff is the problem...

The problem is that it removes ALL CURRENT BUFFS... imba.

Archived Post 03-14-2012 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gachatar
It's a powerful ability, but the other two careers have some crazy stuff too. Miracle worker can save you from zero shield and 25% hull with a single push of a button. For Tac, if you let your hull drop to 25% then quickly use a powerful cooldown like reverse shield polarity, then go down fighting can give you 80%+ to all damage done for a whole minute.
In contrast of this, subnuc is pretty much in line. It's annoying, yes, but half of its effect can be negated with science team, which you should have anyways with all the holds, disables, jams and scramles out there.

Miracle Worker is a great ability and seems to work just fine without being imbalanced.

80% extra damage is great in ideal situations, but when ur target is blows RSP in response to your GDF, well ur just hammering against full shields.

However, with subnuc you can remove all the buffs from a target and your team can then just blow the target up regardless.

I don't think it's right for one Sub Nuc to be able to remove tac team, RSP, emergency power to shields, emergency power to weapons, aux to SIF, and hazards, all in one shot. Then a second Sci on a team just adds to the imbalance.

If the ability removed 2-3 buffs, then it would not be so bad to get hit with Sub Nuc after Sub Nuc... it makes having two more important as well.

Archived Post 03-14-2012 03:28 AM

The usefulness of SNB is the symptom, not the disease, in my opinion. The underlying problem is that the difference between an unbuffed and a fully buffed ship is simply extreme. Offensive buffs allow an escort to tear through ANY undefended ship under a second. Defensive buffs allow a cruiser to not die, ever. In the current system, if you don't have something to break the latter with, highly skilled PvP teams would have 0-0 matches against each other that only end after everyone has quit in frustration/boredom.

Compare T5 and T2 PvP and you can see that baseline HP and damage stats matter more in the latter, while the former is mostly about stacking buffs. It's clear that with all the additional BOFF slots and captain abilities, damage capability and heal/resist capability increases at a much greater rate in higher tiers than hull and shield HP does.

If it were up to me, I'd decrease the magnitude of all buffs (or introduce diminishing returns on similar effects, and make it more severe where it already exists), revise ship tiers to put the BOFF distribution of each tier closer to where T3 is now (this can't happen in a game that sells ships with unique seating in the store of course, but a man can dream), and introduce some sort of attrition mechanic for hull healing (basically, a percentage of damage taken would "stick", so your effective maximum hitpoints would decrease as long as you keep taking damage - this way even the most resilient ships could be taken down eventually).


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