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-   -   Cryptic should play Bridge Commander (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=269298)

Archived Post 05-04-2012 09:40 AM

Cryptic should play Bridge Commander
 
There have been soooo many posts about making the sto bridge part more like "Bridge Commander". I totally agree. It is useless for PvP or PvE, but would really raise the storyline experience for episodes and missions. But on the latest interview on "OPG", Dan Stahl clearly shows Cryptic still has not understood how to do it.

In contrast to many false descriptions, "Bridge Commander" has a 3rd person mode. Anyone who played that game know that during combat it is best to switch to 3rd person mode. The bridge mode mainly serves as storyline progression platform, but it really delivers a great atmosphere. Interaction with the bridge officers is much more intense due to voice overs and task assigments that matter. Although during combat you usually steer the ship yourself, you would sometime temporarily give control to your bridge officers, while you tend to other needs. I perfectly don't see why all this should be impossible for sto episodes and missions.

Cryptic, sit down and listen to the fans before you draw your conclusions!

Archived Post 05-04-2012 10:09 AM

You may want to read up on the latest relevations about this subject.

In BC, you move a camera from A to B, remove the ship model, and replace it with a bridge model. There is no actual Player character in BC.

In STO you ARE the ship, just like you ARE the avatar, so the issue is not quite the same...

Don't get me wrong... When I read about STO, I was hoping for a cross-breed between elite force and Bridge commander and got very dissapointed indeed, but I understand the problem Cryptic is facing in this.

For direct switch between Tactical and Bridge view, you would be required to be in two places at once... One instance of Avatar, and one instance of ship... Obviously you can't do that just like that.

Archived Post 05-04-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anazonda (Post 4199072)
When I read about STO, I was hoping for a cross-breed between elite force and Bridge commander

that would have been the better game.. oh well..

i would at least love to see more real interiors.. galaxy, sov, voy.. it would be soo nice to at least have does.
but oh well.. we cant really change it (quick).. first cryptic and of couse pwe must listen or have more hardcore trekkies like us.

Archived Post 05-04-2012 02:12 PM

also putting your idea into play is not feasible with the current game engine as i understand from various sources, so that would be a complete game rebuild really.

Archived Post 05-04-2012 03:28 PM

this is all purely asking more than anything, and for this I'm going to start out saying the player is on ESD.

Starting Scenario 1: Starting out you could either go directly to the person you want a mission from and accept it from them directly. The beaming you up to your ship would beam you onto the transporter pad and you would go to your bridge from there. Then when you reached your bridge you would sit in your captain's chair and give the order to depart system from there via interaction menu (just like when you're in system space). It would then load to the normal sector space and you would navigate just like normal.

Starting Scenario 2: Starting out on ESD again, except this time you beam to your ship, again arriving on your transporter pad. Then you again go to your bridge, but this time you go to your ready room and sit in your chair in there and use the computer to select a mission. After selecting a mission you go back onto your bridge, sit in the captain's chair and order your ship to depart system space from there via interaction menu (just like when you're in system space). It would then load to the normal sector space and you would navigate just like normal.

In mission Scenario: Incoming hails during the mission would load with a view screen graphic and any selective options in a separate movable node box, just like options for take items,etc are setup now. When beaming to a planet, you select the option to beam to planet, and it loads your interior view and you go to your transporter room and beam down from there. If It is a shuttle required mission you go to the shuttle bay instead of the transporter room and "ready shuttle" which would bring up a shuttle selection screen and then once you make your selection it would load the next part of the mission just like beaming down would.

Returning to ship Scenario 1: If you are returning to your ship via transporter you would just select "beam up" like normal and arrive on your transporter pad.

Returning to Ship Scenario 2: If returning to ship via shuttle (ship selection console on shuttle bridge just like there is now), you would arrive in shuttle bay standing next to shuttle selection console.

Report Mission Complete Scenario 1: You would navigate back to the person you got the mission from using the same procedure in Staring Scenarios 1 or 2 to report mission complete in person.

Report Mission Complete Scenario 2: After you return to your ship via either means you go from the transporter room or shuttle bay to your ready room and sit in your chair, access your computer and report mission complete from there.

This is by no means a seamless immersion between ship interior and game play, but it would be the best possible case considering the game engine limitations. There isn't any of this that isn't possible with the game engine as it is reworking existing parts and some additions to the UI.

There is no denying this would be a massive undertaking and would more than likely have to be phased in over a few seasons, but the massive variety of enhancements it would bring to the game would be insanely welcomed and would probably see a huge surge in players.

Archived Post 05-04-2012 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anazonda (Post 4199072)
You may want to read up on the latest relevations about this subject.

In BC, you move a camera from A to B, remove the ship model, and replace it with a bridge model. There is no actual Player character in BC.

In STO you ARE the ship, just like you ARE the avatar, so the issue is not quite the same...

Don't get me wrong... When I read about STO, I was hoping for a cross-breed between elite force and Bridge commander and got very dissapointed indeed, but I understand the problem Cryptic is facing in this.

For direct switch between Tactical and Bridge view, you would be required to be in two places at once... One instance of Avatar, and one instance of ship... Obviously you can't do that just like that.

At least they should admit they set it up wrong in the first place and not pretend everything is fine.

I don't have enough knowledge in this specific area, but I find it hard to believe it is that difficult. Change camera, change to a different set of control methods depending on a boolean flag variable. Write a class that has access to both 1st person and ship members and methods. It is even the same graphics engine.

Of course if you try really hard to hardcode your program in a highly unflexible way, you can make it very hard to change anything. But of course I don't how Cryptic writes its code.

It is also possible they use different open source components and write very little code themselves. In this case they probably have no idea how their game actually works.

Archived Post 05-05-2012 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong1fu1panda
they probably have no idea how their game actually works.

I have this feeling quite often.

There you go, bridge travel in STO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6y86rjHijY

I don't think this is a particularly useful view with the postage stamp sized viewscreen. This would increase the recommended system specs considerably, too.

Archived Post 05-05-2012 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong1fu1panda
At least they should admit they set it up wrong in the first place and not pretend everything is fine.

I don't have enough knowledge in this specific area, but I find it hard to believe it is that difficult. Change camera, change to a different set of control methods depending on a boolean flag variable. Write a class that has access to both 1st person and ship members and methods. It is even the same graphics engine.

Of course if you try really hard to hardcode your program in a highly unflexible way, you can make it very hard to change anything. But of course I don't how Cryptic writes its code.

It is also possible they use different open source components and write very little code themselves. In this case they probably have no idea how their game actually works.

The action to swap two models and mode the camera is not hard no... The issue comes when you take other players into account.

If they do it the same way BC did, they will actually replace the bridge with the ship, and as such, people would see a bridge flying around rather than a ship.

Unlike BC, the ship models also have several segments each, that intersect, so relying on one sided polys is not possible either, because there are surfaces inside the models that players normally don't see (you can see them if you move close to a border and move the camera around a little.

So it is not simply a matter of moving the camera and adding another model...

Look... I still want the crossbreed between BC and EF... But I can see the technical limitations that are in the way, and need to be solved before we can even go into making a working space bridge.

Sadly the engine was build for Champions... To handle one char that walks around most of the time... What they have used the engine for so far is actually faily impressive.

Archived Post 05-05-2012 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anazonda (Post 4200150)
The action to swap two models and mode the camera is not hard no... The issue comes when you take other players into account.

If they do it the same way BC did, they will actually replace the bridge with the ship, and as such, people would see a bridge flying around rather than a ship.

Unlike BC, the ship models also have several segments each, that intersect, so relying on one sided polys is not possible either, because there are surfaces inside the models that players normally don't see (you can see them if you move close to a border and move the camera around a little.

So it is not simply a matter of moving the camera and adding another model...

Look... I still want the crossbreed between BC and EF... But I can see the technical limitations that are in the way, and need to be solved before we can even go into making a working space bridge.

Sadly the engine was build for Champions... To handle one char that walks around most of the time... What they have used the engine for so far is actually faily impressive.

You could put the bridge and the other rooms into the ship, as it should be. The ship model would have to be extremely large though. This might lead to performance issues and you have to redesign a lot.

Another way would be to put the bridge model outside the visible map (*hack*). You would have to dynamically place the bridge model for every map you load.

I agree that work needs to be done, but there must be far more challenging problems in the industry than this issue. I'd rather pass on new episodes in season 7 than give up on real bridge gameplay. And I have the feeling you feel the same.

Archived Post 05-05-2012 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gong1fu1panda
You could put the bridge and the other rooms into the ship, as it should be. The ship model would have to be extremely large though. This might lead to performance issues and you have to redesign a lot.

Another way would be to put the bridge model outside the visible map (*hack*). You would have to dynamically place the bridge model for every map you load.

I agree that work needs to be done, but there must be far more challenging problems in the industry than this issue. I'd rather pass on new episodes in season 7 than give up on real bridge gameplay. And I have the feeling you feel the same.

SHH... don't say something like that...


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