Star Trek Online

Star Trek Online (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/index.php)
-   Feature Episodes, Events and PvE Content (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122)
-   -   Normal STF's a waste of time? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=269776)

Archived Post 05-08-2012 02:31 AM

Normal STF's a waste of time?
 
This has probably been discussed before, but just wanted to put it out there.

From looking at the PvE boards there's a lot of griefing regarding "noobs" (such as myself) going straight into elite runs without the proper gear (read: rainbow/skittle boats)

Or proper tactics/lack of coms.

It seems to me that even a noob can tell that there's no point in doing normals if all the good loot is in elites.

After all, that's why we do the grind.

So, my idea: get rid of normals, and turn them into a tutorial all players have to do 10 or more times over, before they can be allowed to do elites.

Also, when new players start doing tutorial STF's, have all the necessary information in them.
ie: SHOW people that they need to use a single energy type. And show them they need to use the appropriate tactic for said stf.

What's killing the leet STF's right now are the players who simply don't know what to do, or how to do it, not knowing what to use.

The difference between elite gameplay and normal STO gameplay is pretty huge in terms of difficulty, so can we really blame noobs for coming into elites with poor or inadequate set ups and tactics?

Archived Post 05-08-2012 02:46 AM

I get some MK XI shield/engine/defector tech on normal. That's as good as I ever get on elite. Though elite does bring prototype salvage, so MK XII weapons are obtainable. Normal is just as good for dilithium grinding. ;)

Archived Post 05-08-2012 02:49 AM

Normals are great for first time STFs or players who just want to run a casual STF with their chosen ship and tactics (no need premades in Normals).

It gets the new STF pilot familiar with targeting priority and mission sequences without adding too much in the way of frustration.

You pretty much have to know how things work in Normals to have a chance at Elites. How would you know ship systems synergy and maximum DPS in stressful situations otherwise? (PvP excepted)

As for Normals having poor loot, not true at all. You get Rare Borg Salvage for Mark 11 (Veteran) equipment easily, and you can farm Rare Salvage far faster than you can grind out Prototypes from Elites.

Salvage is all that matters in STFs - you don't need green or blue items anymore once you have a full [Borg] loadout. And by this reasoning, Elites can be a waste of time if you don't wish to have a stressful, very time-sensitive and possibly very frustrating gaming environment.

Indeed, you should save Elites for when you're able to dogfight with the best of them and run tight ship builds at maximum efficiency, while exercising leadership and command talents to guide and coordinate with the other Elite pilots. "Maximum Effort" is the key in Elite Cure Space. One slip up and the whole mission goes down the gutter. You want to be the guy capable of saving the Optional for the team, not the one begging for help because you don't have enough firepower to knock down the 3 Elite Raptors bearing down on the Kang and only you are in the way.

You won't stand a chance at Elites if you don't know how Normals work. Elites are just more fun and definitely more rewarding when you have a zero point something chance of getting that Prototype Tech, but it is also arguably a waste of time to grind Elites endlessly with that kind of Prototype drop rate.

You can grind 100 Elite missions and still not have a single Proto Tech to show off. Mark 12s are great but after all, not mandatory for success in STO.

On the contrary, there's nothing 'newbie' about Normals. They're guaranteed fun, you get to experiment with ship and character builds to learn what works for you. You get to mess around for fun once in a while without compromising team success.

There's room to grow and master the mission environment so you can truly appreciate the challenge and the teamwork mandatory for victory in Elite, which is IMO, not that difficult once you know how things work. Normals are the key :)

For myself I only started STFing on April Fool's Day. Within a week I was doing the easier Elite Space mission - ISE. Second week, KASE, 4th week, CSE. Mix Elites with your Normals and you'll have a ball of a time WINNING at every turn, which is all that matters, really.

Archived Post 05-08-2012 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amlross
This has probably been discussed before, but just wanted to put it out there.

From looking at the PvE boards there's a lot of griefing regarding "noobs" (such as myself) going straight into elite runs without the proper gear (read: rainbow/skittle boats)

Or proper tactics/lack of coms.

It seems to me that even a noob can tell that there's no point in doing normals if all the good loot is in elites.

After all, that's why we do the grind.

So, my idea: get rid of normals, and turn them into a tutorial all players have to do 10 or more times over, before they can be allowed to do elites.

Also, when new players start doing tutorial STF's, have all the necessary information in them.
ie: SHOW people that they need to use a single energy type. And show them they need to use the appropriate tactic for said stf.

What's killing the leet STF's right now are the players who simply don't know what to do, or how to do it, not knowing what to use.

The difference between elite gameplay and normal STO gameplay is pretty huge in terms of difficulty, so can we really blame noobs for coming into elites with poor or inadequate set ups and tactics?

I don't know - I feel it's very much 'luck of the draw'.

I've played normals where, as you state, most of the other players have been in rainbow boats. I've played Cure Space normal where the majority of the players present were in rainbow boats and spent most of the mission shooting at the Borg cubes, completely ignoring the Kang, not the mention the BOP's, Raptors, Negh' Var's and the generator spheres. This results in the 'mission' either taking FAR longer than necessary, or complete failure if the only ships that know what they're doing becoming overwhelmed.

On the flip-side, I've played normal STF's where the other players made short work of everything, the optional was passed with plenty of time to spare, and the drop at the end of the mission made it worthwhile.

To be honest, on reflection, I think that I've experienced more of the latter fortunately. The former is VERY frustrating though, especially when you TRY telling the rainbow boats to leave the cubes alone (to which there is seldom ever any response). The optional fails pretty much 100% of the time when I've found myself in a (normal) STF with rainbow boat clowns.

Archived Post 05-08-2012 02:53 AM

Quote:

so can we really blame noobs for coming into elites with poor or inadequate set ups and tactics?
yes we can, because all the answers are there if you would take 10 minutes to google them.

Tactics, setup etc all there. Gear is very cheap to find on the exchange...rare XI gear is enough to get started on stf's, even elite.

In my opinion, leveling process is much too fast. it should take a player at least twice the time to lvl to 50.
With all the doff missions and mirror events at hand, lvling a toon has become a trivial thing to do, i skipped nearly all of the story missions and nevver did any patrol missions. Leveling new toons is soo dumbed down that it gets to the point of a browser game, where you logg in once a day, do the daily foundry...DOFF missions and maybe a mirror event.

To be clear i did all the missions when i started my first toon in 2011 and i enjoyed it. What i mean is that new players may lose the experiance of doing those missions, because they lvl too fast.

Archived Post 05-08-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raudl (Post 4204587)
yes we can, because all the answers are there if you would take 10 minutes to google them.

Tactics, setup etc all there. Gear is very cheap to find on the exchange...rare XI gear is enough to get started on stf's, even elite.

In my opinion, leveling process is much too fast. it should take a player at least twice the time to lvl to 50.
With all the doff missions and mirror events at hand, lvling a toon has become a trivial thing to do, i skipped nearly all of the story missions and nevver did any patrol missions. Leveling new toons is soo dumbed down that it gets to the point of a browser game, where you logg in once a day, do the daily foundry...DOFF missions and maybe a mirror event.

To be clear i did all the missions when i started my first toon in 2011 and i enjoyed it. What i mean is that new players may lose the experiance of doing those missions, because they lvl too fast.

That's another good point too.

Whilst I consider myself an 'adequate' player - my ship can survive an Elite STF - I do tend to prefer normal STF's.

I fly a Bellerophon (Intrepid) Retro - it's a good ship, and it's setup as best I can, but it's DPS is not huge and I've always felt it far more suited to Normal STF's rather than Elite, where I am only really useful as a healer, with a little crowd control on the side, but am not able to do a great deal of damage to enemty ships 1-on-1. And when it boils down to it, I feel like a more of a burden than a help and, on occasions when the STF has failed, I've almost felt that it was my fault.

And to be honest, I'm quite happy with MkXI gear anyway - I've never felt that the difference between MkXI and MkXII is so huge that it's a gamebreaker.

Archived Post 05-08-2012 04:16 AM

Thanks for all the replies! Lots of good points made. :)

So not a waste if time for those who just want to grind Mk XI gear, dilithium, and chips.

Still, i think there is a need for some sort of requirement for new players before they start Elite STFs.

I remember when i first started playing STO, (all of 5 months ago...:D) there were a couple of tutorial like missions that i did just to get them out of the way.
Stuff like the MacKenzie Calhoun mission that serves as an intro into PVP.

I dont remember doing anything like that for STFs?

I was thinking they should make something new that can serve as an intro for new STF-ers.

Maybe something like: "Go to DS9 and talk to the folks in charge of STFs, then watch a video on a console there"

The video could be fan made to help take the strain off the devs.

In said video there could be an intro on how to set up your ship/character properly. Then each mission played out individually showing the kind of tactics that are necessary. Showing people how to communicate.

They could have one video for each STF. Accessible to anyone, anytime. But EACH ONE would need to be watched all the way through before doing that particular Elite STF.

Surely this would be minimal work for the devs to add? A simple "go here, do this" objective mission with a new console in DS9 onto which fan made vids could be added.

Well, rant over. im off to grind some STFs! :)

Archived Post 05-08-2012 04:47 AM

Really, I personally agree with some friends who say the rare tech's should be mostly dropping from normals, and the main techs you get in elites being the prototypes.

Not a "Ever single elite run you get a proto tech." but "If you get a tech, it's proto. not a high chance of rare."

Archived Post 05-08-2012 11:24 AM

Considering all the lovely stories I hear about Elite STFs around here, I;m sticking with the normal ones.

What;s interesting is that most of the folks doing the complaining are on my ignore list. Hmmm.....

Archived Post 05-08-2012 12:04 PM

ummm no one's doing normals? last i checked there were far more queing for normal than elite.

besides with the exception of the MK XII gear and lessend reward, everything in a normal is the same and only a few elitist type people feel that a 1-2% difference on a console, device, equipment, or weapon is really going to make that much of a difference. Sure it takes typically 2-3 normals to = the rewards of an elite but in a pug you can do 3-4 normals by the time a pug completes an elite.

there are plenty that are happy with purple MK XI gear and they run normals more often than eliters run elites.

so you didn't read the data before posting and it shows.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:12 AM.