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Archived Post 05-23-2012 04:37 AM

P2W clean bill of health
All this P2W whining is starting to get to me... and this is why:

P2W is bad, because it allows players with lots of RL money to be stronger. right?
P2W stuff is bought with c-points. right?
C-points can be bought with Dilithium, wich can be grinded by playing. right?

So then what's the problem? You can get the stuff without spending a $. Sure, those that want to spend $ gets it a little faster, but as long as it's not a new, even more OP, item every week, it doesn't really matter. The current c-store stuff has been there long enough to be grinded through Dilithium long ago.

And yes, those c-points were paid for by someone. Someone who could afford to pay cash for Dili. And so what? Cryptic makes their profit, and the equipment is available to everyone. This is not unfair.

(On a seperate note: Some of those c-store things are OP, and some are just annoying, but they are NOT P2W. Stupid, inbalanced and cheesy, but not pay2win)

Archived Post 05-23-2012 05:04 AM

Do you really want the good fleets to start using AMS/GravPulse/... en masse?

Archived Post 05-23-2012 05:09 AM


Originally Posted by mancom
Do you really want the good fleets to start using AMS/GravPulse/... en masse?

I can just imagine the rage :)

Archived Post 05-23-2012 05:10 AM

You still can buy an advantage by spending C-Points. After all, you don't have to grind for them (well, depending on your work, it may feel like you do, but...). Or you grind in game as well as spending C-Points, giving you an advantage over someone that can only grind.

Of course, one of the things that annoys me most about the P2W consoles is that they are badly designed. They break the existing design paradigm on powers and consoles significantly, and so it's no surprise they break balance. That some are also mechanically so poor thought out that they would even be OP if they were BO powers is its own problem.

But imagine if these consoles would work entirely like normal consoles (giving some kind of passive buff), and owning them also allowed you to train a Bridge Officer in a new skill. Suddenly the entire problem of an extra power is eliminated. You sacrifice one BO power for a new special power. T he in-built opportinity cost for powers is maintained (You need a BO slot for them). And the powers could also be balanced directly against other BO powers, which for many would probably mean improved cooldown rates. If the Vent console gave you a variant Eject Warp Plasma, it could have the same cooldown instead of that 2-3 minute cooldown it has now, for example.

It gets a little more complicated with passive benefits - or maybe not, since those may not need to be BO powers in the firs tplaces - passives fit exactly in the console paradigm already.

What the Cryptic development team is missing IMO is a clear vision of their system and how it all fits together. Maybe something like that is not to be had if some bean counter tells you "we need our first +1 ship in the C-Store in a month from now, get on with it". [/Rant]


Originally Posted by mancom
Do you really want the good fleets to start using AMS/GravPulse/... en masse?

Yes, I want that to happen. Absolutely. Gozer is looking into PvP. We should stop holding back and get ugly. I want the New PvP to be a PvP where no one has to hold back with some abilities because they are blatantly unfair, broken or unfun if used by competent players. I want to have a game system where "everything goes".
Get out your Tractor Beam Pets, AMS, Grav Pulses and Plasma Vents or what else and use them.

Take that with a grain of salt though: I am not PvPing much right now, so I won't be hurt in any way. DOFFs and Elite STFs is it, and probably will be until I get two toons with Mark XI Sets at least.

But if you're worried that you kill off all PvP interest - there isn't much left in the current system anyway, as Gozer stated. So if you make things a little worse just to show off how bad things really are mechanically, and have a hope to get it fixed, then this is your chance. Don't let the devs say "Oh, it's not so bad, the people aren't using this stuff anyway, so it's probably fine".

Archived Post 05-23-2012 05:37 AM

Let it fly boys. Personally I'l be watching on the sidelines, drinking vodka on my bridge. Or on an away mission racing cars. :D

Archived Post 05-23-2012 06:42 AM


Originally Posted by mancom
Do you really want the good fleets to start using AMS/GravPulse/... en masse?

Well, since I am plying exclusively P-U-G, it wouldn't matter. It may even make the horrible 0-15 against premades last shorter... :D

As for all the "less than good" premades out there, they already are using these consoles.

but I guess my biggest grief, is that I have a lot of these consoles, and they havent cost me a single $... They are my payment for months and years of grinding. And I'm afraid to use them, because people will accuse me of winning by $$$ rather than skill :( (EDIT: IF I should be so lucky as to win, that is) How can I be paying to win without spending any money? :eek:

Like if it's not bad enough that cryptic took my mountain of emblems etc and made it into a pile of useless dilithium... that I exchanged for a handfull of c-points... but what I bought for those c-points I can't use, except against PvE, where it's not needed anyway :p

And yes, if people are using them, and a Gozer incognito queues up for a match, he MAY see the error of their ways.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 07:49 AM

Dalate.. nathing to see here.
My bad.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:32 AM

P2w is just a title. The issue isn't whether you payed RL money for these item or if you grinded for them. The issue is that most of them are way out of balance. If someone is using the stupid p2w console that comes off the sci ship that gives you a boost to aux and shields at the same time, no one would care because it's a waste of a console slot for something that is either balanced or underpowered. The issue is these powers that are arguably commander level powerful or better at the cost of a console slot. To top it off, some of the abilities like AMS is STILL broke after they promised us that it was fixed. I had a AMSx3 stacked on me the other night.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:34 AM

agreed gloves off, not like premades fly oddys and lockbox ships to beginn with anyways. I m sick n tired of double standards and people holding back. If we want a fun fight, we can agree on rules like it happens before almost every match anyways.

12th fleet deathmatch wasn't to bad and it was clearly marked as gloves off.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 09:08 AM

Buying CPs with Dilithium should be not allowed anymore.

Its encourage mindless grinding and disencourage other types of play, like PvP...

and yes, you can do the dailies, but most people who plays for dilithium plays only STFs, since you can do them almost everytime.

so basically, as per my vision, Foundry and PvP are less encouraged to play, helping them to die even more.

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